I am sorry my good sir I most vehmently disagree with you.
Patents do nothing but slow down an industry and promote laziness....
1) Ford, which is considered the model on how to build cars and do processes HAD to get around patents so that he could build a car that EVERYONE can afford.
2) Windsurfer which invented the windsurfing board had a patent, which they only enforced two years before the end of the patent. Until five years before the end of the patent there was no Wind surfing industry. Windsurfer then cashed in and forced bankruptcy of major windsurfers. Where is Windsurfer today? Sitting on money doing nothing.
3) Laser had a patent which caused nobody to do anything with lasers. Once the patent expired we ended up with laser pointers, last light shows, etc, etc..
4) Patents CANNOT be bought and defended by "small" people. Patents cost about 40,000 EUROS a pop and this is not money for the "small" company. This is money for the large company.
Now about your reference to MS and Internet Explorer. Say what you will, but Netscape was no better than Microsoft. I was around in the Netscape days and they were bastards. Once I represented a company who wanted to purchase five thousand licenses to Netscape. Netscape ignored the company because it was too small and companies like Deutsche Telekom were more important.
Microsoft might clone ideas, just like all of the other companies do as well in the industry. The software industry is like writing, we all clone!
The problem in software are the contracts. For example why do I have to buy Windows 5 times for a single computer?
Sir, I would have wished that you would have used your lawyer abilities to reign in the contracts instead of going for the easy cash in Patents. Remember you are going to be responsible for a mess that *I* have to live in.
Yes and that is why MS is sueing everybody using their patent portfolio...
Ooops... It is Eolas sueing MS, it is SCO sueing everybody in the world...
Come on people, MS might be "evil" in some eyes, but they do not have a sue culture. In fact the last thing MS does is sue...
It does get to me that they think big bad MS is going to use patents to stop other people, when in fact other people are abusing their patents. Use the power of slashdot to go against them...
But my main point is that it is just bits and bytes. Why do people think in terms of borders. Many companies are starting to see this and as such are setting up shop in other countries. Eg the DMCA was just enacted in many European countries. What did those shops do? They moved offshore...
This is why I find it silly that one IP holding company in one country can hold the world by its short and curlies...
If you are going to correct me on my miscalculation of the population of the world then I must correct you on your comment that the next 5 economies do not match the US economy.
http://www.wallstreetview.com/GDPRankings.html According to those stats the GPD's of the five biggest economies after the US makes a grand total of 15.5 billion vs 10 billion.
Yes the US is the world's biggest economy, never said it was not. What I am arguing is that it is not the ONLY economy.
My argument is not US vs the rest of the World. My argument is why should the rest of the world suffer when the US patent system is screwed up. Why should we have to put up with a patent that is not recognized elsewhere.
Software patents are NOT recognized across borders because software and business patents are not recognized everywhere in the world.
Do you really think anybody in the US government is going to make a big deal about this patent? Come on, the government has REAL issues like Iraq, Middle East, jobs, and re-election. They could not give a hoot on whether this patent is recognized across the world.
What is to stop anybody from taking the sources offshore for Mozilla? How about more people developing for Konqueror offshore?
Is it not a bit narrow minded discarding Opera like that? Could it not be that people all of the sudden jump and download Opera?
All of these are not beyond the realm of possibilities. The case in point is SSL and how it was developed in Australia. Now look at how popular SSLeay has become...
This is the RSA algorithm all over again. Remember how that played out? Patented in the US, but not elsewhere. Remember what happened? That is why SSLeay was created and why strong encryption was dropped by the US government...
"How shives a git?" Seriously this patent only affects American users as the patent is only registered in the US. My take is screw the Americans, and let the rest of world use plugins as normal.
MAYBE then the American law makers will see how truly dumb software patents truly are!
In the "good ol'days" there was no weekend because people would work. There was no vaction because people would work.
The outcome of robots is already known and it is called the tourism industry. Fifty years ago getting a job as a "excercise therapist" meant becoming a Gym teacher. Now there are wild water adventures, Bungy Instructors, etc, etc. There is an entire industry built around humans fascination to be amused. With more robots this is what is going to happen.
Yes, people will not do physical labor. People will teach for amusement. Look at slashdot. It is purely amusement factor. Because otherwise we would be happy reading the article at the website and just keep going on with our lives. No, we have to be amused and DISCUSS the MERITS of the ideas. We have to waste brain cycles thinking about stuff that we have no clue how they will turn out anyways. Imagine doing that a hundred years ago. You would have been called a lazy butt...
Excuse me, but I think this is nothing more than a land grab by some greedy "Intellectual Property" company.
The patent is ridiculous and I hardly see the patent holder writing their own browser or selling their own system. No, they would rather sue some company and make their money that way...
You are right you could blame DELL OR you could blame Symantec. Why? Because all of the other software that came with my Dell worked. Hence I am guessing Symantec does this on purpose to get more clients.
Just like the copy of my Symantec Anti Virus software I got for free with my DELL.
Installed, and what pops up... Oh your virus files are out of date! Please visit our website....Visit the website... Oh your version of Anti Virus has expired, please consider upgrading or buying our one year service plan...
>>> The US has an abundance of natural resources. It has lots of trees, minerals, fertile soil and water.
BAAAAHHHAAAAA..... *need a break to stop laughing* BAHHHAAAAA ROFL....
Ok Mr, why do you need the resources from Canada? Huh? Canada provides a large amount of you lumber, paper, electricity, nickel, and least we forget WATER!
USA is not self-sufficent and has not been so for decades. Self-sufficiency is not a good thing nor a bad thing. The problem is when the world economical eco-system is out of whack. Which right now it is. The West (including Europe and North America) is only about 750,000 million people. The "rest" of the world which is the "third world" is 5 billion. Our system is out of whack!
BTW, when I mentioned the West I did not single out the US, I meant North America and Europe... I have no idea why you thought I was commenting about the US.
I found your posting REALLY funny in the truest sense.
It wording you use, pyramid scheme, which is in fact what it is. The pryamid scheme is not that bad, so long as everybody benefits. It is when the scheme gets out of whack only a few benefit.
>>> People all over the world are getting a clue except the American PHBs
I say be careful what you wish for... I like Open Source. I make my money with Open Source, because earlier in the 90's I saw that Closed source was coming to an end. Or at least the "big bucks" was coming to an end
However, this trend by other countries is good for Open Source. It does not however translate to money in my pocket with trade. I am ok with this because I figured out a way to get around this.
Many people will not be ok with this and this is what is happening right now. Witness SCO. SCO is only digging the grave for all business in the US. Do you REALLY think SCO has a snow ball's chance in hell trying to force their "rights" in Brazil, or China? Of course greed by SCO is fogging the big picture issue.
Likewise with patents and other copyright issues. Like the guy with the patent against Microsoft. Or the RIAA. These companies are only damaging themselves and the market they manage. They are deluding themselves into thinking that if they can only last a couple of more years everything will go back to normal.
No times have changed, and the West better a clue REAL fast or the West will have to start looking for handouts from the "third" world nations.
This is the start of a changing of how third world countries will act.
Seriously, lets see "PAY LICENSES" or "FEED PEOPLE"
Ok the argument is not always about feeding the people. Paying license fees is not what third world countries want to do. I mention this as a start because it will shift to other things other than software, eg Drugs Patents, Copyrights, etc. The West better be paying attention, because people like the RIAA say, "Why do you need bread when you can eat cake!"
No his example is right, but he neglected to forget one thing.
Why is his hand getting hot? Because the gas is converted back to a liquid. The excess heat goes straight into his had, hence why water vapor is always a worse burn than boiling liquid.
Same concept, ok well not entirely but operates on the same principle.... The key is the ability to create a loop where the liquid is converted to gas and then back again..
>> while for creative people it includes many spiritual layers.
Fine, but even those layers have not been discovered. Because, tada, those layers are defined by the artists, which have no limits...
>> At the time of Mozart, Bach and Beethoven there was no copyrights.
Was that better? Many of the artists were starving artists who could not earn a living selling their work. They earned a living writing or painting what some rich patron wanted.
Frankly I tend to prefer the world now. At least I can do what I want and get paid for it.
>> You just repeat it after RIAA. Real artists are not allowed to come any close to CD store.
As in my original post, the RIAA is a bit extreme. BUT nonetheless, there is a music market and there are artists making money, like authors making money, etc, etc. Ask a musician or author or artist if they would rather produce their work in a non-copyright world... The problem right now is that the RIAA owns too much power over the copyright, etc.
Because when I said the Western World I meant North American and Europe. Last I heard only in the US were Business Patents and other sorts of patents allowed... It still does not mean that you cannot go out and patent something else..
What is the problem with a copyright? If somebody produces a unique song, or text, then they have the right to copyright it. You can just as easily write another text. There are millions of combinations of putting text and music together.
Now if you are referring to ripping off somebody else's work, well then you are a rip off artist...
Ripping off does not help society, neither does the other extreme called the RIAA, which is only the US again.
Now about free market economies. North America and Europe generally are free market economies. Are they 100% free market? Nope, but it does not need to be. Are they 90%? Sure they are...
Free market economies are those where you can start a business, without any government saying you cannot or giving you hurdles of red tape, to essentially do whatever you want (legal of course) and sell products. All Western Economies fall into this category.
Not entirely true. The problem is that the word IP has been warped and twisted...
>> Writing the software or music is not building anything material - it's a discovery of what has been existing in the nature alway, forever.
Is it really? So if I look in the ground somewhere I will find "Yellow Submarine" by the Beattles?
Come on. You are as extreme as the RIAA. Intellectual property exists whether you like it or not. The expression of words and ideas should be guarded. Eg copyright's are fine. After all how else should artists be protected?
Do not give me this bull about the "good old days" where there was no copyright. In the "good old days" there were also not as many artists, etc. There also was an economy based on royality and not free market economies. Eg had a boat and went down the Rhine? Well, there was a duty and the boat had to stay docked for three days. Why? because the people controlling certain points at the Rhine felt like it.
These days artists can earn money and express ideas to the world. The world has become a better place.
>>> With all do respect, I don't think anyone will be dissapointed that they can't run AtheOS, Minix, Plan9, or QNX on their PPC machines (and BeOS and OS/2 are of questionable importance).
Aha... So if an OS is of questionable importance then it is should be not considered? Hmmm...
I do hope you realize that you just said since Apple has only about 2-3% of the annual sales market that a PPC is of QUESTIONAL importance. Since my hardware platform is essential the rest of the market.
Slashdot Mirror
I am sorry my good sir I most vehmently disagree with you.
Patents do nothing but slow down an industry and promote laziness....
1) Ford, which is considered the model on how to build cars and do processes HAD to get around patents so that he could build a car that EVERYONE can afford.
2) Windsurfer which invented the windsurfing board had a patent, which they only enforced two years before the end of the patent. Until five years before the end of the patent there was no Wind surfing industry. Windsurfer then cashed in and forced bankruptcy of major windsurfers. Where is Windsurfer today? Sitting on money doing nothing.
3) Laser had a patent which caused nobody to do anything with lasers. Once the patent expired we ended up with laser pointers, last light shows, etc, etc..
4) Patents CANNOT be bought and defended by "small" people. Patents cost about 40,000 EUROS a pop and this is not money for the "small" company. This is money for the large company.
Now about your reference to MS and Internet Explorer. Say what you will, but Netscape was no better than Microsoft. I was around in the Netscape days and they were bastards. Once I represented a company who wanted to purchase five thousand licenses to Netscape. Netscape ignored the company because it was too small and companies like Deutsche Telekom were more important.
Microsoft might clone ideas, just like all of the other companies do as well in the industry. The software industry is like writing, we all clone!
The problem in software are the contracts. For example why do I have to buy Windows 5 times for a single computer?
Sir, I would have wished that you would have used your lawyer abilities to reign in the contracts instead of going for the easy cash in Patents. Remember you are going to be responsible for a mess that *I* have to live in.
Yes and that is why MS is sueing everybody using their patent portfolio...
Ooops... It is Eolas sueing MS, it is SCO sueing everybody in the world...
Come on people, MS might be "evil" in some eyes, but they do not have a sue culture. In fact the last thing MS does is sue...
It does get to me that they think big bad MS is going to use patents to stop other people, when in fact other people are abusing their patents. Use the power of slashdot to go against them...
I do not mean to be so harsh...
But my main point is that it is just bits and bytes. Why do people think in terms of borders. Many companies are starting to see this and as such are setting up shop in other countries. Eg the DMCA was just enacted in many European countries. What did those shops do? They moved offshore...
This is why I find it silly that one IP holding company in one country can hold the world by its short and curlies...
If you are going to correct me on my miscalculation of the population of the world then I must correct you on your comment that the next 5 economies do not match the US economy.
http://www.wallstreetview.com/GDPRankings.html
According to those stats the GPD's of the five biggest economies after the US makes a grand total of 15.5 billion vs 10 billion.
Yes the US is the world's biggest economy, never said it was not. What I am arguing is that it is not the ONLY economy.
My argument is not US vs the rest of the World. My argument is why should the rest of the world suffer when the US patent system is screwed up. Why should we have to put up with a patent that is not recognized elsewhere.
Software patents are NOT recognized across borders because software and business patents are not recognized everywhere in the world.
Do you really think anybody in the US government is going to make a big deal about this patent? Come on, the government has REAL issues like Iraq, Middle East, jobs, and re-election. They could not give a hoot on whether this patent is recognized across the world.
What is to stop anybody from taking the sources offshore for Mozilla? How about more people developing for Konqueror offshore?
Is it not a bit narrow minded discarding Opera like that? Could it not be that people all of the sudden jump and download Opera?
All of these are not beyond the realm of possibilities. The case in point is SSL and how it was developed in Australia. Now look at how popular SSLeay has become...
Excuse me, but isolating your biggest market?
Let's see there are 260 million Americans, and 5 billion Non Americans. Where is the bigger market?
About the WTO and the likes, do you really think that the US government is going to step in and make this a world issue?
We need to see the dimensions here. The US government will do squat because they REAL issues to deal with. Like getting people jobs...
I am neither naive nor funny.
This is the RSA algorithm all over again. Remember how that played out? Patented in the US, but not elsewhere. Remember what happened? That is why SSLeay was created and why strong encryption was dropped by the US government...
Well here is the question I am asking...
"How shives a git?" Seriously this patent only affects American users as the patent is only registered in the US. My take is screw the Americans, and let the rest of world use plugins as normal.
MAYBE then the American law makers will see how truly dumb software patents truly are!
Yes there are fundamental changes.
We have worked less, we actually have WEEKENDS...
In the "good ol'days" there was no weekend because people would work. There was no vaction because people would work.
The outcome of robots is already known and it is called the tourism industry. Fifty years ago getting a job as a "excercise therapist" meant becoming a Gym teacher. Now there are wild water adventures, Bungy Instructors, etc, etc. There is an entire industry built around humans fascination to be amused. With more robots this is what is going to happen.
Yes, people will not do physical labor. People will teach for amusement. Look at slashdot. It is purely amusement factor. Because otherwise we would be happy reading the article at the website and just keep going on with our lives. No, we have to be amused and DISCUSS the MERITS of the ideas. We have to waste brain cycles thinking about stuff that we have no clue how they will turn out anyways. Imagine doing that a hundred years ago. You would have been called a lazy butt...
If I had any mod points I would give them too you.
Could not have said it better myself...
I always found it wierd too. People want choice except when it comes to computer programs... WIERD...
This is a trivial patent, because around that time I showed in Netscape with an embedded Excel document how to buy stocks.
It is not that unique, and the applet tag falls into this category as well. Essentially that moves falls into this category...
Excuse me, but I think this is nothing more than a land grab by some greedy "Intellectual Property" company.
The patent is ridiculous and I hardly see the patent holder writing their own browser or selling their own system. No, they would rather sue some company and make their money that way...
Sheeshhh...
You are right you could blame DELL OR you could blame Symantec. Why? Because all of the other software that came with my Dell worked. Hence I am guessing Symantec does this on purpose to get more clients.
Just like the copy of my Symantec Anti Virus software I got for free with my DELL.
...Visit the website... Oh your version of Anti Virus has expired, please consider upgrading or buying our one year service plan...
Installed, and what pops up... Oh your virus files are out of date! Please visit our website.
The notebook was BRAND NEW...
This is called a money grab, boys and girls...
>>> The US has an abundance of natural resources. It has lots of trees, minerals, fertile soil and water.
BAAAAHHHAAAAA..... *need a break to stop laughing* BAHHHAAAAA ROFL....
Ok Mr, why do you need the resources from Canada? Huh? Canada provides a large amount of you lumber, paper, electricity, nickel, and least we forget WATER!
USA is not self-sufficent and has not been so for decades. Self-sufficiency is not a good thing nor a bad thing. The problem is when the world economical eco-system is out of whack. Which right now it is. The West (including Europe and North America) is only about 750,000 million people. The "rest" of the world which is the "third world" is 5 billion. Our system is out of whack!
BTW, when I mentioned the West I did not single out the US, I meant North America and Europe... I have no idea why you thought I was commenting about the US.
I found your posting REALLY funny in the truest sense.
It wording you use, pyramid scheme, which is in fact what it is. The pryamid scheme is not that bad, so long as everybody benefits. It is when the scheme gets out of whack only a few benefit.
>>> People all over the world are getting a clue except the American PHBs
I say be careful what you wish for... I like Open Source. I make my money with Open Source, because earlier in the 90's I saw that Closed source was coming to an end. Or at least the "big bucks" was coming to an end
However, this trend by other countries is good for Open Source. It does not however translate to money in my pocket with trade. I am ok with this because I figured out a way to get around this.
Many people will not be ok with this and this is what is happening right now. Witness SCO. SCO is only digging the grave for all business in the US. Do you REALLY think SCO has a snow ball's chance in hell trying to force their "rights" in Brazil, or China? Of course greed by SCO is fogging the big picture issue.
Likewise with patents and other copyright issues. Like the guy with the patent against Microsoft. Or the RIAA. These companies are only damaging themselves and the market they manage. They are deluding themselves into thinking that if they can only last a couple of more years everything will go back to normal.
No times have changed, and the West better a clue REAL fast or the West will have to start looking for handouts from the "third" world nations.
This is the start of a changing of how third world countries will act.
Seriously, lets see "PAY LICENSES" or "FEED PEOPLE"
Ok the argument is not always about feeding the people. Paying license fees is not what third world countries want to do. I mention this as a start because it will shift to other things other than software, eg Drugs Patents, Copyrights, etc. The West better be paying attention, because people like the RIAA say, "Why do you need bread when you can eat cake!"
No his example is right, but he neglected to forget one thing.
Why is his hand getting hot? Because the gas is converted back to a liquid. The excess heat goes straight into his had, hence why water vapor is always a worse burn than boiling liquid.
He just needs a little nudge on thermodynamics...
If I might be cynical...
It's called a refrigerator...
Same concept, ok well not entirely but operates on the same principle.... The key is the ability to create a loop where the liquid is converted to gas and then back again..
>> while for creative people it includes many spiritual layers.
Fine, but even those layers have not been discovered. Because, tada, those layers are defined by the artists, which have no limits...
>> At the time of Mozart, Bach and Beethoven there was no copyrights.
Was that better? Many of the artists were starving artists who could not earn a living selling their work. They earned a living writing or painting what some rich patron wanted.
Frankly I tend to prefer the world now. At least I can do what I want and get paid for it.
>> You just repeat it after RIAA. Real artists are not allowed to come any close to CD store.
As in my original post, the RIAA is a bit extreme. BUT nonetheless, there is a music market and there are artists making money, like authors making money, etc, etc. Ask a musician or author or artist if they would rather produce their work in a non-copyright world... The problem right now is that the RIAA owns too much power over the copyright, etc.
How about you wake up to reality?
Because when I said the Western World I meant North American and Europe. Last I heard only in the US were Business Patents and other sorts of patents allowed... It still does not mean that you cannot go out and patent something else..
What is the problem with a copyright? If somebody produces a unique song, or text, then they have the right to copyright it. You can just as easily write another text. There are millions of combinations of putting text and music together.
Now if you are referring to ripping off somebody else's work, well then you are a rip off artist...
Ripping off does not help society, neither does the other extreme called the RIAA, which is only the US again.
BTW I meant royalty in terms of kings and queens.
Now about free market economies. North America and Europe generally are free market economies. Are they 100% free market? Nope, but it does not need to be. Are they 90%? Sure they are...
Free market economies are those where you can start a business, without any government saying you cannot or giving you hurdles of red tape, to essentially do whatever you want (legal of course) and sell products. All Western Economies fall into this category.
>> The trueth is: there is no IP.
Not entirely true. The problem is that the word IP has been warped and twisted...
>> Writing the software or music is not building anything material - it's a discovery of what has been existing in the nature alway, forever.
Is it really? So if I look in the ground somewhere I will find "Yellow Submarine" by the Beattles?
Come on. You are as extreme as the RIAA. Intellectual property exists whether you like it or not. The expression of words and ideas should be guarded. Eg copyright's are fine. After all how else should artists be protected?
Do not give me this bull about the "good old days" where there was no copyright. In the "good old days" there were also not as many artists, etc. There also was an economy based on royality and not free market economies. Eg had a boat and went down the Rhine? Well, there was a duty and the boat had to stay docked for three days. Why? because the people controlling certain points at the Rhine felt like it.
These days artists can earn money and express ideas to the world. The world has become a better place.
>>> With all do respect, I don't think anyone will be dissapointed that they can't run AtheOS, Minix, Plan9, or QNX on their PPC machines (and BeOS and OS/2 are of questionable importance).
Aha... So if an OS is of questionable importance then it is should be not considered? Hmmm...
I do hope you realize that you just said since Apple has only about 2-3% of the annual sales market that a PPC is of QUESTIONAL importance. Since my hardware platform is essential the rest of the market.
Glad that we can come to an agreement...