Zalman TNN 500A - Complete Heatpipe Cooled Case

SlashCrunchPop writes "Zalman is about to release a completely fanless computer case based entirely on heatpipe cooling capable of keeping even the hottest CPUs cool. Cool silence, at last?" The article's in German, but the pictures speak for themselves.

Comments

Excellent

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a computer in my bedroom that I keep on all the time. Lately I've been kept up at night by the fan noise. The noisy fan in my computer also posted a troll on Slashdot and killed my cat. Thus, I'm quite happy to learn that this problem is history. Soon I shall get rid of my noisy fan, and... *stab* Oh no! The fan got me! I'm going down!

Re:Excellent

[Zro Point Two]

I actually like the sound that comes from the fans in my system. It has much the same effect on me going to sleep as white noise would have on most people.

Or maybe it's just me....I mean, I am the one who moved right beside an expressway because I liked the dull sounds that come from cars rushing past while I am falling asleep.

Re:Excellent

[Slack3r78]

You're not the only one. Personally, I have 2 computers in my room that run full time in addition to a ceiling fan and a 10" box fan. I sleep better when everything's running than I do in a completely quiet environment. I think in my case it may be related to my ADHD. If I'm in a quiet environment, my mind will constantly wander and I'll become restless. Having the droning fan noise kind of helps my brain to shut down and let me actually sleep.

Re:Excellent

[0111 1110]

Sounds like you need to upgrade your CPU fan to an 8000 RPM Delta fan. AT 55 decibels, It should keep you up all night. I put one in my system once but couldn't stand to be in the same room for more than 5 minutes so I promptly replaced it with a Panasonic Panaflo.

Re:Excellent

[Coplan]

I agree. White noise from the highway does put me to sleep rather quickly. Of course, that's the only advantage I see to my humble abode underneith the I-95 bridge in Philly. Guess it's time to find a new job.

Re:Excellent

[bob65]

I guess it really depends on what your fans sound like. If they sound like a low, dull rumble of wind, I could see how that would be beneficial. However, mine sound highly abrasive, with a slight high-pitched whistle.

Re:Excellent

[u4eahh]

REPEAT, we have a piper down!

Re:Excellent

[Superfarstucker]

people say im mostly psychotic but i sleep with music on at relatively low volumes. It's not chill music either, it's mostly progressive/trance/etc. point being i sleep better when i have something to focus on... Sometimes the bass is too invasive so i cut it 4 or 5 db =)

Uber Sweet!!

[Trent05]

Looks like it could double for a space heater too!

Re:Uber Sweet!!

[The Wicked Priest]

They can ALL double as space heaters, regardless of the case/cooling system. Think about it -- the same amount of waste heat is always generated; it's only a question of how that heat is moved away from the hot spots in the system.

It does look like a giant heat seak, though. I wonder how hot the case itself gets.

Re:Uber Sweet!!

[Anonymous Coward]

It does look like a giant heat seak, though.

Hahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahaha!
heat seak. that's a good one. did you, perhaps, mean 'heat sink'?

Re:Uber Sweet!!

[geemy]

I would even say that active cooling - such as a fan - ADDS heat to the total amount (the power consumed by the fan itself ends up as heat !). Though it's almost negligible in case of a fan it isn't for a peltier for instance. The consequence is that this case will produce a little LESS heat than an actively cooled one !

Re:Uber Sweet!!

[Anonymous Coward]

When I had 3 full sized computers running in my office I used to close all the doors and the heat from the computers was enough to keep it 70F+ when it was 30F outside. I didn't need any other heat sources.

I've since ditched all that crap (too noisy). Now it's just a laptop and tiny firewall machine (that machine seriously needs a fanless power supply).

Re:Uber Sweet!!

[The Wicked Priest]

I sure did. Thought I typed it, too. Oh well.

Re:What's the point?

[askanis]

... but not without making noticeable sound ...

Heat Pipes 101

[Anonymous Coward]

For those of you who want to know

Re:Heat Pipes 101

[n.wegner]

??? How can the wave move that fast? The molecules of metal start speeding up at one end, and 1 shake later I doubt the molecules at the other will be doing much of anything yet. I think you've run into the problem that all models are wrong, but some are useful. Your "simple thermodynamics" are wrong (to some extent), but are useable for your purposes within some constraints.

Re:Heat Pipes 101

[amorsen]

The system is not closed. One end is being heated, the other end cooled. Therefore there is a temperature gradient. Perhaps someone else needs to learn simple thermodynamics.

Re:Heat Pipes 101

[Anonymous Coward]

And perhaps someone needs to get the proverbial stick out of their ass.

It is closed as in there is no coolant exposed - a closed loop. Much like your car system or your home airconditioning is considered a closed system.

Welcome to the real world and not your thermodynamics class boys and girls.

Re:Heat Pipes 101

[SerpentMage]

If I might be cynical...

It's called a refrigerator...

Same concept, ok well not entirely but operates on the same principle.... The key is the ability to create a loop where the liquid is converted to gas and then back again..

Re:Heat Pipes 101

[SerpentMage]

No his example is right, but he neglected to forget one thing.

Why is his hand getting hot? Because the gas is converted back to a liquid. The excess heat goes straight into his had, hence why water vapor is always a worse burn than boiling liquid.

He just needs a little nudge on thermodynamics...

Re:Heat Pipes 101

[Eric Ass Raymond]

in a closed system the gas must all be at the same temperature and pressure all the time

Closed system: no exchange on particles. Isolated system: no exchange of particles or energy.

It is correct to call this system a closed one. The water molecules inside the tube transfer energy in and out of the system via evaporation and condensation (+natural conduction through the pipe material) as long as one end of the tube is at a higher temperature than the other.

As far as the transient times are concerned, you're right in that thermodynamics does not deal with equilibration times. Why? Because it is a theory of systems in equilibrium. And of course there is a delay. Nothing in nature is instantaneous.

Re:Heat Pipes 101

[B'Trey]

While there are some simularities (ie both depend upon gas changing states as you point out), there are significant differences. A refrigerator or AC is an active system - it uses a compressor to power the system. A heat pipe is a passive system. In essence, it's powered by the heat it's dissapating.

Re:Heat Pipes 101

[MegaHamsterX]

Build your own heat pipe here

Re:Heat Pipes 101

[Jeff DeMaagd]

One problem I've seen with previous heat pipe implementations is that not only did it use a fan, they used the most obnoxious fan they could. Shuttle had "quiet heat pipe technology" on the sell sheet for their mini-PCs but it was the loudest computer in the store.

Re:Heat Pipes 101

[amorsen]

That still does not change the fact that there is a temperature gradient. In the real world. And I am somewhat amazed that two moderators think otherwise.

Re:Heat Pipes 101

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing in nature is instantaneous

And yet Slashdotting comes mighty close.

Re:Heat Pipes 101

[Anonymous Coward]

You and some mods are having a little reading comprehension problem. The original poster'a argument was based on (incorrect) thermodynamics.

Air conditioners are not closed systems in the thermodynamic sense of the word. Neither are the water cooling systems used in cars.

Maybe...

[Black Parrot]

> The article's in German, but the pictures speak for themselves.

Maybe it's like the SCO comments, and someone can translate it by substituting English letters for the German ones.

Re:Maybe...

[Rolo Tomasi]

That would be an explanation for the article's horrible Pigeon German.

Re:Maybe...

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe it's like the SCO comments, and someone can translate it by substituting English letters for the German ones

No need, cursing is universal

Time For BabelFish

[asciimonster]

For the people who don't read German, here's the page translated by babelfish... Which is, unfortunately readable at best...

Re:Time For BabelFish

[muirhead]

For people who don't read the article, just continue as normal.

Re:Time For BabelFish

[Anonymous Coward]

Trust me, the original German isn't that much better. It sounds like a incoherent hyperactive autistic 5 year old wrote it. It's even below the usual /. standard.

Re:Time For BabelFish

[Biomechanoid]

The manufacturer will be able itself to hardly save from the many vorbestellungen.

Do you want fries with that?

Re:Time For BabelFish

[Anonymous Coward]

Presentation in english http://www.sharkacorp.com/pdf/TNN500A_Catalog.pdf

Re:Time For BabelFish

[MrBlint]

I can't use BabelFish (or anything like it) at work because people have used it to look at porno web sites by translating them from English to English

Re:Time For BabelFish

[Salden]

Here's google's translation which is hysterical. Don't miss the very bottom of the page:

Googlized

Re:Time For BabelFish

[stdcallsign]

Finally, infinite peace in the cardboard. This cardboard has seen war and strife for over a century. But finally, there will be peace. Infinite Peace.

Re:Time For BabelFish

[Anonymous Coward]

Look out! There are vorbestellungen!

Re:Time For BabelFish

[Anonymous Coward]

I could really go for some infinite peace in my cardboard right about now. Oh, and a piece of cream of the superlative. Uh oh, there I get damp eyes.

Re:Time For BabelFish

[Izmunuti]

I love these BabelFish translations:

"Thus begin now already strongly with saving."

Good advice!

Re:Time For BabelFish

[FCKGW]

Check out the hard drive cooler. Am I missing something, or are the heat pipes just connecting one side of the hard drive to the other? That would just make two hot ends and the heat pipes would be doing diddly sqat. Tell me what I missed that makes this cool the hard drive.

Re:Time For BabelFish

[Anonymous Coward]

Finally, infinite peace in the cardboard.

Finally, complete silence in the box.

Re:What's the point?

[BiggerIsBetter]

The point is that your $20 dollar case probably sounds like a jet plane taking off, possibly overheats occassionally, and if a fan fails you're screwed. This one doesn't have those problems.

These also look a lot, um, cooler. In an ugly-modern kind of way.

Babeltry

[BrynM]

It seems Babelfish is learning prose

"Which one is to there still say, a piece of cream of the superlative. There I get damp eyes."

It sounds like a Peter Murphy song or something. Anyone care to tell me what

"Ja was soll man da noch sagen, ein Sahnestuck der Superlative. Da bekomme ich feuchte Augen."

really means?

Re:Babeltry

[asciimonster]

Ok. I'll try: "Yes, what is there left to say? The Creme-de-la-creme(best-of-the-best) of superlatives. It's getting wet in my eyes."

Or this one:
"Thus begin now already strongly with saving."
Is a very bezar way of saying: Start saving now!

Or this one:
"I remain natural at the ball..."
I can only com up with: Of course I keep posession of the ball. (Of course, It's my move?)

By the way "vorbestellongen" are pre-orders.

Re:Babeltry

[panurge]

"What can I say, it's the cream of the cream? It makes me go all emotional"

The author needs to get out more. A lot more. In fact, he shouldn't be allowed indoors until he's had a cold shower.

Re:Babeltry

[kinnell]

"What can I say, the cream of* the superlative. It brings tears to my eyes.

* This is an educated guess

Re:Babeltry

[wimbor]

I'm not a native German speaker, but I do know some German. I believe Babel is not that far off. You could translate it by:

"So, what else should we say, this is really the Sahnestuck of Superlatives. I get tears in my eyes..."

Now the Sahnestuck is still a problem, but it is indeed a word consisting of

"Sahne" = Cream
Stuck = Piece
Cream is the final topping on the pie, so you could freely translate this by "the cherry on the pie"...

In total we get:
"So, what else should we say, this is really the superlative of the proverbial cherry on the pie. I get the tears in my eyes"

Re:Babeltry

[tsa]

It means:

"Which one is to there still say, a piece of cream of the superlative. There I get damp eyes."

Re:Babeltry

[phthisic]

Whatever. All these translations bring tears to my ears.

Re:Babeltry

[AzAber]

I really liked the line "I remain natural at the ball..." I don't care what it really means, because the image of german case designers going to a fancy dress ball "au natural" brings me great, if disturbing, pleasure.

Re:Babeltry

[Eivind]

It really means something akin to:

"What more is there to say, a collection of superlatives, makes me want to cry."

Or something in this direction, the Babelfish isn't soo bad actually. Sahne is literally cream, but sometimes, like here, used to mean only "excellent"

Re:Babeltry

[Florian]

Translation (German original contains a number of colloquial expressions which don't translate 1:1 into English): "What can I say? A top-notch piece of engineering. I am drooling!"

Re:Babeltry

[really?]

Congrats. Best translation so far.
(While neither is my mother tongue, I sometimes need to edit translations and it's nothing worse than someone trying to find 1:1 equivalents for slang/colloquialisms.)

Re:Babeltry

[spectrokid]

Yes, what can I say more, a superb thing. My eyes are getting moist.

Re:Babeltry

[MegaHamsterX]

German is the ultimate romance language

Re:Babeltry

[coso]

I am now convinced that Darmok is working the in Google translation department. Tanagra division.

You may check here for Building Silent PC's

[Delifisek]

http://www.buildsilentpc.com

Re:You may check here for Building Silent PC's

[Anonymous Coward]

http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=6 643

The parent site of that thread, I think is more informative.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/

Re:You may check here for Building Silent PC's

[muirhead]

more informative

Re:You may check here for Building Silent PC's

[Anonymous Coward]

Its just got to be clickable.

Grumpy Baby says BOO!

Not the case for me.

[killermal]

I like my CPU's hot! It gives me an opportunity to fry my breakfast in the morning.

Re:Not the case for me.

[Rolo Tomasi]

Yeah, I like to fry hummingbird eggs on my Athlon's die, too ....

Solid Copper pipes???

[NFN_NLN]

Those pipes look like solid copper. It must be a pain to re-route them if you use non-standard sized components. Isn't there a flexible material they can use that will still withstand the heat?

Re:Solid Copper pipes???

[shione]

There are instruments that make easy work out of bending pipes. they ensure you get the angle you want without slippage and bent exactly where you want. The ones plumbers use for hot water pipes are probably too big because of the larger diameter but no doubt some company will make one that fits.

Re:Solid Copper pipes???

[Zemran]

They are not solid, they are hollow :) I find copper pipes easy to bend into shape but if you are worried then there are plenty of flexible rubber pipes that are available as long as you make sure that the ones that you are looking at are able to take the heat. If you use decent copper pipes inside the case where size is important then you could use adapters on the case and use good quality shower hose to connect to a reservior and pump.

Re:Solid Copper pipes???

[Zemran]

When doing plumbing I used to have 2 long springs that slid inside the pipe with a length of string tied to one end in order to retrieve the spring. The springs were sized to fit inside 15mm and 22mm pipes. The spring was about 2 foot long. I could then bend the pipe to the shape I wanted and the spring would stop the pipe from collapsing. I would just pull the spring out with the string afterwards.

I also used to have a pipe bender which is a curved form with a gully to take the pipe. A long handle attached to a roller bends the pipe in the gully. It is easy to make a form like this using ply wood. Get 2 sheets of thick strong ply about 6 inches square and a sheet of strong ply the same thickness as the pipe you wish to bend. Use a jigsaw to cut the curve you want into the pipe sized piece of ply and clamp it between the 2 squares using g-clamps. Bend the pipe using the form and finish of freehand to make any fine changes after. As long as any major bends are made using the form any small adjustments should not cause the pipe to collapse.

The tools that you really need to buy are for creating the unions on the ends. Olives are OK but flares are better.

That would not be useful with these small pipes. I used to have a pipe

Re:Solid Copper pipes???

[NorthDude]

I was about to mod you down, but hey, I'm trying to be cool this morning :-)

Heat pipre do not work with a pump and a reservoir, this is basic Water cooling you are referencing.

Eat pipe work by having a copper tube with its inner surface having a thin membrane of stuff wich I can't remeber the word for (I'm not an english speaker...). Well when one end of the tube is heated, the liquid passes thru the membrane and gets to its gazeous form, gathering energy with it. It then moves to the cooler section of the tube where it will be passing thru the membrane again, condensing and thus releasing the stored energy. The membrane is always imbibated (not sure for this word) in the liquid and the actual "eat displacement" is done thru the center by the gazeous form of this same liquid.

Hope this does clarify things a bit!

Re:Solid Copper pipes???

[SharpNose]

I've seen two techniques used to facilitate pipe bending. One is to fill the pipe with sand first, and the other is to fill it with water and flash-freeze it by dipping it in liquid nitrogen.

Re:Solid Copper pipes???

[Arandir]

I don't know about the membrane stuff. A description of 'eat pipes I heard elsewhere said that the sealed copper tube is filled with sintered copper and a small amount of water.

Re:Solid Copper pipes???

[NorthDude]

O maybe... I read that somewhere from a company selling eat pipe... Maybe there is more then one way of doing it :)

But anyway, the principle remains the same I guess

The best thing is...

[kinnell]

It looks really evil

Re:The best thing is...

[killermal]

It's german for crying out loud! Of course it looks evil :)

Re:The best thing is...

[shione]

Zallman isnt German, it's S. Korean.

CPU powered bath?

[Channard]

Now all we need is some bright spark to use the heated water from a watercooled PC to have a bath and we're getting really energy efficent.

They aren't Solid Copper

[zinkem]

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=75390&cid=6742 171

Re:What's the point?

[admbws]

You mean you bother with a case?! I have systems that are just the motherboard and hard drive set on the table with a PSU plugged in!

Re:What's the point?

[gl4ss]

yeah it looks real cool, and is something a lot of people have been waiting for to appear.

there was some japanese(? can't remember) guy who made his own(thick copper as heat pipes rather than real heatpipes) solution kind of like this(passive fanless, non watercooled).

now if i only won at the lottery..

Looks cool, but...

[Zog The Undeniable]

I'm sure it's just a form of one-upmanship. Look at that "hard drive cooler" - it's just a load of central heating microbore tubing, isn't it? I can't believe that's the BEST way to get good heat transfer, even though most IDE hard drives are perfectly happy without any cooling whatsoever. All those pipes really look as if they'd get in the way when you're trying to install an upgrade. And is it just me, or does that northbridge only have a passive heatsink? These things can get quite hot, and there's no airflow through the case.

Air cooling still has plenty of mileage - bigger fans at lower rpm are what we need. I have two 120mm case fans running through a rheostat, and the noise is insignificant compared to the little 60mm CPU fan (no, it's not even a Delta).

Re:Looks cool, but...

[GeekDork]

[...] most IDE hard drives are perfectly happy without any cooling whatsoever.

But they won't get old. Manufacturers and tests show that a relatively small (10K) increase in temperature can significantly decrease a drive's lifetime. There's not much needed to keep a consumer drive cool, though. A low-noise fan (80mm, 1500RPM) keeps the temperature of my drives so low that they don't feel warm to the touch while they get quite toasty without the airflow.

Re:Looks cool, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

"And is it just me, or does that northbridge only have a passive heatsink?"

Dude, it's a completely fanless solution. Get it? Like .. no fans in there.

Re:Looks cool, but...

[F34nor]

I love my heatsink fan combo. I got a Swiftech and a 80mm to 120mm adapter and a 120mm YS Tech case fan. It moves about 130 cfm at 45 d. Same idea applied to the CPU, granted I had to buy a motherboard where the CPU was far enough to the center of the mobo to avoid bumping up against the ps.

Here's a picture of a similar setup.
http://www.dirkvader.de/page/swinging/bild -9.jpg

Goes around, comes around

[panurge]

Aber was kostet's?

Reminds me of the high power PSUs we were building back in the early-80s for I-can't-tell-you-about-that applications. That was for 60V 50A DC-audio amplifiers. Why do Germans still go for all-black, finned military chic?

Even so, the limited convection of this thing is still wasted capacity. It would be better, and almost as quiet, to have a chimney round the back with the fins pointing inward, and a slow air stream from a large fan being sent up it. It could easily be as quiet as a hard drive.

Re:Goes around, comes around

[kinnell]

a slow air stream from a large fan being sent up it

But the whole point is not to have a fan.

Re:Goes around, comes around

[Qbertino]

Why do Germans still go for all-black, finned military chic?

They don't. They usually go for pointless boring standard looking 'safeside' designs. In allmost every german household you'll find white-painted standard rough-texture wallpaper, for instance.
It's actually all 'anti-design'. They only thing you can be shure of is that the german thing will allways be 3 mm thicker than all the rest. Check out german car chassis or german cups, saucers and dishes to see what I mean.
Considering that, this case is quite avantgardistic by german standards. :-)

Re:Goes around, comes around

[C32]

Zalman is a South Korean company.

Re:Goes around, comes around

[shione]

Why do Germans still go for all-black, finned military chic?
are you talking about the inside or the outside?

I woulda thought they go for black in the inside because its a better conductor of heat.

Re:Goes around, comes around

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do Germans still go for all-black, finned military chic?

Get a fscking clue, Zalman is korean.

Re:Goes around, comes around

[panurge]

I know that, dummkopf. I actually read the article, ohne Babelfisch. I know where Zalman comes from. The author of the article was wetting himself over the case. Hence my remarks. I didn't say "Why do Germans design..."

Re:Goes around, comes around

[panurge]

Oh dear. No, it isn't. It's a better RADIATOR. And you know how hot the case would need to be before radiation was significant compared to convection? Tube temperatures rather than transistor temperatures.

Re:Goes around, comes around

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do Germans still go for all-black, finned military chic?

Let me satisfy your pathetic suspicion by saying "Because Adolf Hitler would like to have it that way."

Are you satisfied now? My american friend?

Re:Goes around, comes around

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do Germans still go for all-black, finned military chic?

Because red, white and blue with military chic is already occupied ;-)

Re:Goes around, comes around

[broeman]

hmm, weird, I thought that was Scandinavian / Japanese functionalistic design. Everytime Danish companies produces to the german market (40% export goes to Germany), it has to be (or look like) luxurious products, with corny gold, leather and (black) wood-impregnated designs. And yes, I know Germans and their homes, because I live by the border and half my family live in Germany (or used to).

Re:Goes around, comes around

[hippo]

Why do Germans still go for all-black, finned military chic?

I can't comment on the military chic but black fins lose heat faster than chrome roundness.

Re:Goes around, comes around

[Zyrill]

gee, you're really uber! you can read german without babelfish... hehehe - to answer your initial qustion: probably the same reason why americans still go for weapons!

But wait...

[bluegreenone]

The best thing about it is that it's big enough to live in.

Re:But wait...

[Anonymous Coward]

yea but does it come with a free pair of steak knives when SCO comes knocking?

Re:But wait...

[aszaidi]

> The best thing about it is that it's big enough to live in.

And comes with free central heating. Think of the money you'll save.

Re:But wait...

[Anonymous Coward]

The best thing about it is that it's big enough to live in.

Like, for hobos that escaped government tracking?

Re:What's the point?

[Zog The Undeniable]

...but the whole block is getting a TV picture like TV2 Albania!

Meassurements, Price?

[Qbertino]

Does it fit under my Desk?
What does it cost?

If both is under my maximum I want one!

Re:Meassurements, Price?

[heli0]

"What does it cost?"

$1,000(US)

"Does it fit under my Desk?"

Dimensions: 400(L) x 286(W) x 607(H) mm

Re:Meassurements, Price?

[ahfoo]

That was why I didn't get the Zalman Flower, too pricey. I love the design though. I'm planning to do something similar on my own when I add another case-less board to my collection.
If you haven't seen the Zalman Flower, google for it, it's pretty cool. Basically, it's just a monstrous and fine veined heat sink.
They do a lot of acrobatics to make it fit in a case though and that's where we part ways. Personally I stopped using cases altogether a while back. I just use racks with the components laying flat on the rack and it seems to keep all the components much cooler.
So, without the constraints of the case, I'm thinking along the lines of the Zalman Flower, but just using a bundle of several foot lengths of copper wires soldered onto a piece of copper plate.
Now before you jump to the conclusion that the weight will rip the heat sink clamps off the board, I got it all figured out. Since there's no case and the board is laying flat, the wires can bend outwards so that the heat sink's shape forms its own support.
It should look cool too. It's time to get past case modding and into integrated cooling forms similar to what this thing offers, but homebrew.

Re:What's the point?

[killermal]

You will be the coolest kid on the block to all you're geeky friends!

Rough translation, hopefully better than babelfish

[Henk Poley]

"Zalman fanless PC

Finally, it's told to us [uhm "(un)endliche Ruhe im Karton" means so much more though :-)]. It took long for such a product to appear on the mass-market. The manufacturer will be hardly able to produce enough to satisfy market demand. Though it's promising on paper we will now need to wait for priceinfo and more information. One thing is clear already, the price will be far below DIY construction sets, since Zalman is known to be specialized in mass production. The 6 heatpipes for the CPU, 2 for the graphicscard and 10 for the harddisk will keep the system as cool as possible. We are looking forward to this new Zalman case and hope to say say bye bye to our fans and noisemakers by Christmas.

Off coarse I'll try to inform you about this in the future [ "Ja naturlich bleibe ich am Ball ..." ???]

What's more to say about this thing, only creme de la creme superlatives will suffice. It makes you feel all soddy inside [ "Da bekomme ich feuchte Augen"]. Heatpipes (18 !!), and more heatdispensers than you will probably need.

It will be perfected silence because the case is fully sealed. It's the first one where even optical drives will be decoupled from the case.

Better is not possible!

More silent is not possible!

Due to be sold in october at
www.alternate.de
Maybe you should start saving money."

Case Details

[kaptink]

PDF specsheet on the case => http://www.sharkacorp.com/pdf/TNN500A_Catalog.pdf

Yes! heatpipes

[r00zky]

This is exactly what i though when i read the previous watercooling story... heatpipes are quieter!

From the images you can see 6 pipes for the processor and 2 pipes for the graphics card both taking the heat out to a bigger surface to dissipate: the case which is a huge heatsink!

What i don't understand is the cooling for the harddrive... they put 10 pipes running from one side to other of the drive, they seem to cool the cdwriter too with that, but it's strange to me since the pipes seem to get heat from the middle, (instead of from an end to transfer to the other end) anyone with more data (i.e. readed the article in german) care to explain?

Anyways, yay for ubersilentkooling! :P

Save enery

[tsa]

Maybe I sound very European when I say this but isn't it more sensible to try to reduce the amount of energy spent by the various components of the computer to minimize heat output?

Re:Save enery

[NeuroManson]

European? No. Ignorant? Yes. CPUs, no matter the heat limitations, require a certain wattage to operate properly and at the right speed. AMD and Intel CPUs both require between 300 and 450 watts of power to operate. That's equivilent to an all electric kitchen at the least. And in as such, they generate a huge amount of heat (in my own experiences, a 7200 RPM HD and my P4 1.5 Ghz is enough to keep my bedroom warm during the winter).

If you don't like this, I suggest you move back to Pentium MMX 200-266, or similar AMD K6 CPUs. You can't really do anything multimedia wise with 'em (except play MP3s, video files will suffer), but they will do the job otherwise.

Re:Save enery

[tommck]

AMD and Intel CPUs both require between 300 and 450 watts of power to operate

Well, I have a PIII 600, an AMD Athlon XP 1900+ and a 19" Sony monitor running on a single UPS. It claims that there's only a 350 watt draw on it when everything is on and functioning. So, I think your numbers are a bit high.

T

Re:Save enery

[Anonymous Coward]

"AMD and Intel CPUs both require between 300 and 450 watts of power to operate"

Maybe the whole system including multiple hard drives, motherboard, video card, optical drives and fans. But the CPUs themselves only require 70 - 100W.

Re:Save enery

[Eivind]

Your numbers are off by a order of magnitude. I suspect you're confusing the total max effect of the power-supply with the consumption of the CPU.

Hint: The big box on your floor is not your "CPU". A modern CPU migth use 50 to 100W. There is no CPU in existence that consumes 300 to 450 watts like you claim.

Re:Save enery

[Eivind]

Actual numbers you can find at:http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPU_power_consump tion

Some examples:

• XScale 80321 600 MHz, 0.5 watts
• Athlon XP 2200+, 1.65 V, 62.8 watts

Re:Save enery

[addaon]

Dual core Power5 with 32MB L3 cache on board takes 500 watts. And makes the Itanics look light weight.

Re:Save enery

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope you don't have to be European to be energy conscious. Admittedly we Americans are Power Pigs to the extreme.

But you are absolutely right in the quest for lower power hardware. If you have any interest in making a very low power, yet modest performing computer, then VIA has some excellent options with their Micro-ITX motherboards and Eden CPUs. These and Transmeta tend to run towards 30W for the entire system.

But I would not recommend them for Graphics design, LAN servers, gaming and a few other goodies. But for the basic Home/Office they have some real potential

The only other solution that I'm aware of that is low power and quite is to use LTSP and a jammin125 client for a quiet low power workstation and back that up with a monsterous power hungy and noisey server you locate somewhere else. When scaled, this can save a lot of money, energy, heat, noise, and headache.

Re:Save enery

[phusg]

Save energy -> here here!!! :-)

Ignorant? Hmmmmm, very mature of you to say so. But anyway, we've all been a teenager:

As has been mentioned you are off by an order of magnitude. I have a german widget which actually measures the wattage going through a plug. My nForce computer with Athlon XP2100+ uses in total 100Watts under full load and something like 95Watts when idling (which surprised me). My nForce2 with o/ced Athlon XP2400+ uses 150Watts under full load and again no less than 140Watts when idling.

I always like giving underclocking a go every now and again to see how low things will go. It's just as challenging/much fun as overclocking only your goal is silence instead of speed. Haven't made any wattage measurement of that yet.

If you want speed and low wattages/voltages, then I think the Intel Centrino laptop processor is 'market-leader' at the minute, although I doubt you could find separate ATX motherboards for it. The AMD Opteron with it's SOI technology also looks like a pretty energy efficient beast.

And of course if you're going to leave your computer on at least run a Grid client like www.climateprediction.net's. There wattage difference (from my measurements) really is minimal and their beta client is impressively stable already.

Re:Save enery

[ivanmarsh]

Maybe I sound very European when I say this

You do. Arrogant and self-righteous.

Hey everybody! Europeans are the only people that are sensible and environmentally conscious.

Re:Save enery

[Anonymous Coward]

My pdp-11 takes 750 watts. :P

Re:Save enery

[palewhitemale]

man, if your laptop requires that much power, carrying the batteries around must be a bitch. I suggest an interstate high output and a backpack...or a small diesel generator and one of those old school suitcase carts.

Re:Save enery

[Arandir]

I'm running a 2.8GHz P4 system (2x7200rpm drives, 2x5400 optical drives, gpu) and a 19" CPU through an APC 650. I don't know how much it's drawing, but its output is only 400W.

Re:Save enery

[CanSpice]

AMD and Intel CPUs both require between 300 and 450 watts of power to operate.

Really. Why is it then that Intel has a number of 250W power supplies listed on their website as being tested with the P4? AMD recommends a 350W PSU as well. If the CPUs require between 300 and 450 watts, then how can I use a 250W PSU to run everything?

They actually require on the order of 50W to run, not 300-450W, which is less than the 100W lightbulbs that are common in houses.

Oh, and if 300-450W is equivalent to an electric kitchen, you've got one damned efficient kitchen. Typical power consumption for a dishwasher is 1200W, a fridge is about 450W, and an electric range is 12000W.

Re:Save enery

[the pickle]

CPUs, no matter the heat limitations, require a certain wattage to operate properly and at the right speed. AMD and Intel CPUs both require between 300 and 450 watts of power to operate.

Hrmmm....

Or AMD and Intel could concentrate on building more efficient CPUs.

Which was sort of his point in the first place.

p

Re:Save enery

[NeuroManson]

Not technically, unless you can go without a HD, CD-R/W, DVD-ROM, floppy, AGP card, PCI tuner card, NIC, and sound card. Each one of those components have a certain amount of draw, and they all add up. Oh, and USB, that's a heavy consumer of current as well.

275W is fine if you want to make sacrifices and not really be able to do much more with your system then some basic gaming and online stuff. You've probably seen them advertised on TV and online, those incredibly sparse boxes from Gateway that cost less than $500, or those "system in a box" specials at countless retailers online.

Hence why I said the CPU required a higher supply. Old school CPUs had fairly low requirements (you could run on 100 watts back in the day), so 150-200W power supplies would do the job just fine. Similarly with the newer desktop CPUs, you're going to need a certain amount of overhead.

Another thing nobody has taken into account, is that Intel P4s require an additional 12V 8-10A supply. DING! Another element that consumed electricity!

And then there's good ol' heat. And in terms of protecting your overpriced Intel CPU, or your overly fragile AMD CPU, you can never have too many fans. UNLESS your power supply is rated too low, then you're stuck with the CPU cooler and fan in the PS to keep everything cool.

The whole deal with Intel claiming the P4 can run off of a 275W PS is correct, but it's also a bit of FUD. Back when Athlons, Durons and P4s first hit the market, everyone was, in a word, freaking out over power consumption and heat for these new 1Ghz and faster CPUs (this was wayyyy back in the olden days of 2000, kids).

Both CPUs were hogs, so Intel had to come up with a way to make themselves look like a more economical hog, as long as the users were willing to make some sacrifices.

Re:Save enery

[Kasoni]

The reduction of size means less friction, less heat, and quicker speeds. However Many idiots go "Hey, it's half the size now, we can double it up" meaning instead of being half the size of the old 128 it's now the same size and is 256, not only that but if the heat was reduced by lets say 30%, that still leaves 70% double that and you get 140%, which is hotter than the original.

So until people are happy with the size of everything and only worry about speed upgrading, we're going to keep getting hotter componets.

Re:Save enery

[tommck]

Not technically, unless you can go without a HD, CD-R/W, DVD-ROM, floppy, AGP card, PCI tuner card, NIC,

I have a 2 hard drives (Raid 0), HD, CDRW, DVD-ROM, floppy, AGP video card and a NIC (no tuner) on one of the PCs. The other is a little more sparse with just a CD reader and one hard drive and an AGP video card. I'm still nowhere near the ballpark of what you were talking about. Including a 19" monitor! I have 350W power supplies in these machines, but they are under-utilized (obviously).

T

Re:Save enery

[NeuroManson]

Does your monitor run off of your PC's power supply? No? Then tack on an approximate 75-100W right there in power consumption.

And remember what I said: 300 TO 450. You're arguing with me AFTER I said that. 350 is median range, about what most users would need at least to have a perfectly functional system that doesn't reboot once or twice a day when the PS goes wonky. 450 is the range for power users.

In other words, you're complaining because I said the minimal value is 50W under your PS capacity, another complained because my minimal value was 25W above Intel's claimed power requirements for the P4.

Make up your minds, people.

Re:Save enery

[tommck]

Hey, butt nugget, listen to what I say... My UPS, upon which the TWO PCS AND THE MONITOR run, reports a TOTAL DRAW of 347 Watts. So, somehow, between these THREE THINGS, we only have ~350W of power being used. SO, in conclusion, you're full of shit. I was trying to be nice about it before, but geez.

T

Re:Save enery

[Zyrill]

I think the ignorant is you since even the most advanced Intel or AMD cpus do NOT drain - not even when running at 100% - more than 100 Watts... for example the Thunderbird uses about 80... when it's running at 100% capacity, which is rather seldom on a normal PC. Normally up-to-date cpu's take about 20W. k? 450 Watts of power... BWAHAHAHAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaa... what kinda power-supply do you have if only your cpu uses 450? how 'bout your 7200 RPM HD? another 1KW i'd assume - so that's about as much as vacuum cleaner... *lol* my pc has a 435W power-supply and it's not even running at 50% capacity with my 2 hds, my tb 1,4 and ethernet, isdn, modem, gfx and video-card...

Heat exchanger.

[Agent R]

This would be a pretty handy device for those living on the eastcoast in the middle of winter. As someone mentioned above, it would make a dandy space heater. I agree. When I was still living in Boston, I left the several machines on my home network running 24/7 during the months of intense cold. Oddly enough my utility bills* was lower that year than the year before. (When I didn't have the machines running all that time.)

*apartment was gas heated.

Re:Heat exchanger.

[Anonymous Coward]

*apartment was gas heated.

So you saved money on beans (bean town) and the place probably smelled better too!

Sorry, I need a girlfriend!

Re:Heat exchanger.

[Mr.Gibs]

Why do people keep thinking this would be a great space heater??? Your computer with all it's fans gives off a certain amount of heat. This case with no fans should give off THE SAME AMOUNT OF HEAT! The components are not going to produce more heat! The heat is just dispersed differently. Instead of air being circulated through the case, it will be circulated around the outside.

Re:Heat exchanger.

[MarcQuadra]

all in all it doesn't put more heat into the room than any other case. There's conservation of energy here, if you take two PCs of equal footing, one in a CoolerMaster 6-fan case and one in this fanless thing the fanned case will actually heat up the room MORE, because the fans themselves generate (some) heat. I think overall you can measure the amount of heat that a device will produce by measuring how much it draws from the power source, sinc ein the end all that juice is being turned to heat anyway.

Re:Heat exchanger.

[Agent R]

The idea is to lower the ambient temperature the components generate and experience during operation by transfering as much of the heat elsewhere. (i.e. dispersal through to the environment.) The case should be an improvement over the fan-driven models by removing MORE heat from the components and projecting it to the outside. Thereby, more heat is expelled and the parts are cooler when compared with other computer cases.

Re:Heat exchanger.

[Agent R]

It will depend on how well the cases remove the heat from the computer components and disperses it into the air. (I don't think the fan's own generation of heat contributes much when compared to how much the CPU, today's video card, and mainboard makes.) The Zalman fanless case uses roughly the same concept as airconditioners so the transfer of heat from PC to environment should be far better than the regular case that uses fans for cooling. Thereby the temperature created by the PC is lower internally with more heat being expelled externally.

Re:Heat exchanger.

[MarcQuadra]

right, but in terms of heating the ROOM around the PC, all cooling solutions are the same, except for the small difference that active cooling ADDS to the wattage of the system.

A box with a regular heatsink/fan will actually generate less heat than one with a peltier cooler, because the peltier is less efficient, even if it gets your CPU down to near-freezing temperatures.

Re:Heat exchanger.

[Agent R]

The more heat I can get into my room during November, the better. It's still cheaper in the long run when I saw the cost per therm of last winter's gas bill. $_$

Re:Heat exchanger.

[MarcQuadra]

I feel the same way, my rig (file server, network equipment, two PCs, and monitors) puts out about 1000 watts of heat, or 2/3 of a space heater. When I moved in our electric:gas bills went from $15:$50 to $50:$20, It only costs me $5 more to run all my computers in the winter because the heater kicks in a lot less. During the summer it costs me about $35/monthe to run the same rig. It would cost a LOT more to run in the summer if I had air conditioning, as I would be paying for energy to HEAT and COOL at once.

One thing I'm looking to do is build a 'chimney' for the cabinets I put all the computers in, one that I could have blow heat into the house during the winter and out a vent in the summer, all while keeping my PCs a bit cooler. Note that if the PCs are in a hot cabinet during the winter, it makes no difference to the temperature of the house if I blow that heat out or if it stays in the cabinet, as all that heat eventually finds it's way into the house anyway, it just gets there slower through the wood.

A Question

[T-Kir]

...how much does this weigh? Would it fall through my wooden desk... the only guide I have to heatsink cases is the Mac Cube, which was a rather nice doorstop in the weight area.

Re:A Question

[heli0]

http://www.windys.com.br/files/tnn2b.jpg

21Kg (46 lbs.)

English

[heli0]

Here is some information in English

Zalman TNN 500A - Complete Heatpipe Cooled Case

From Zalman's site:

7/16/2003

Thank you very much for your fervent interest in Zalman's upcoming product.

Q: What about the price?
A: It is very likely that the official retail price of TNN 500A cooling system will be determined as about 900~1,100 US dollars.

Q: Where can I buy it?
A: Zalman's dustributors all over the world will have it stocked in the near future. When the time comes, contact Zalman distributors in your country by referring to 'Order' section on the upper right corner of this screen.

Q: When (can I buy it) ?
A: We are going to launch the TNN cooling system around September. Then, you will be able to order it via or to distributors in your country. Please be patient until the time comes. Thank you.

Regards,
Jinkook Kim/ZALMAN

Re:English

[heli0]

more:

Marketing Material.jpg

high res images
http://www.ask-corp.jp/pic/zalman/tnn500a-3.jpg
http://www.ask-corp.jp/pic/zalman/tnn500a-2.jpg
http://www.ask-corp.jp/pic/zalman/tnn500a-1.jpg

Re:English

[AmiMoJo]

It is very likely that the official retail price of TNN 500A cooling system will be determined as about 900~1,100 US dollars.

For that much money, you could go for a full water cooling system with one or two large 120mm fans. Careful selection of the fans would make it very nearly silent, certainly below the noise level of my bedroon during the day, which just off a main road.

The Zalman case looks really impractical too, I mean the back has a door which you would need to keep open if all your cables didn't fit though the exit holes at the bottom. It's gotta be a niche market thing.

MoJo

Re:English

[MikShapi]

Half that much buys you a fully-modded Asetek's PhaseChange-cooled system. 200$ more would buy you an additional high-quality water-cooling kit, with heatsinks for everything from your harddrive to the coolant reservoir.
Oh, and the Asetek next to this looks like a 21'' TFT next to a 1947 osciloscope.

Idea

[Biomechanoid]

If you put this horrible looking box in a basement or somehow far away from your monitor, nobody will notive those bad looks and you can still enjoy its silence.

Re:Idea

[nbarr]

If you do that, you dont need a silent case :)

Ugly...

[KingRamsis]

this is case is freakin ugly, looks like a second hand washing machine

More info in English

[MoZ-RedShirt]

is available here:

http://www.sharkacorp.com/pdf/TNN500A_Catalog.pdf

RedShirt

Those are heat-pipes

[hughk]

Evacuated, but with a working fluid and a wick as a liner. It gives better heat transfer than solid copper. The idea is that it just dumps the heat into the housing, which happens itself to be a very large heatsink (at least the sides).

IDE drives may not need individual coolers, but they definitely like significant airflow. As there isn't a fan, you need to be sure that they don't cook or cook anything else in the cab.

As for airflow inside the case, yes there is still some because of convection. The air is relatively cool because most of the the heat is being dumped elsewhere, so a measily little Northbridge shouldn't have problems.

Lastly, zero fans is perhaps too much, but some of the ideas could be used to reduce case fan rpm and to maybe get rid of the CPU fan.

A real pain...

[advocate_one]

fancy exposing everything just to put a CD in the drive... people are going to leave that front door open just cos of the hassle of opening and closing it everytime they want to play a DVD etc...

and that case is going to be a real pain to fit new cards and pull others out of... looks like anything you put in it is going to stay put.

Re:A real pain...

[campbedj]

You need to leave the door open to put in more than a CD.

Did anyone else look at the picture of the back door standing open? There's no access to any of the external connectors. If you want to hook up anything to this computer, the back door will have to be standing wide open. This includes: power cable, monitor, keyboard, mouse, serial, USB... If you want to actually USE this system, the back door is useless.

Bauhaus...

[hughk]

sort of like the German design school of the thirties, form follows function.

Re:morons use unlimited power supply to cool down.

[Biomechanoid]

MOD parent up, +interesting

Hmm

[mrselfdestrukt]

The article's in German, but the pictures speak for themselves.
Sorry, dude. I don't understand german pictures either.
Anyway, that's one big-ass heatsink. The think is.With a chassis like that , you'll probably end up just spreading the heat through your entire case instead of directing heat away from CPU, HD etc. I don't mind the noise. I'll keep my fans thank you.

Re:Hmm

[amorsen]

With a chassis like that , you'll probably end up just spreading the heat through your entire case instead of directing heat away from CPU, HD etc.

What exactly do you think the fans do? Hint: spreading the heat around is exactly you want to do. Unless you want to keep the CPU cooler than ambient, but then fans are not going to work either.

Brilliant! Looks like I can junk some gear

[Chris Worth]

I just counted the fans in my desktop, and amazingly came up with 8: CPU, PSU, graphics card, and 5 spread around the case. (A CoolerMaster) And I'm not even a cooling freak. This thing should reduce those decibels.

Publish your ultra-short tales at espresso stories.

Leaks...

[Famatra]

I wonder who pays the bill if the thing leaks, them, the computer manufacturer, or you.

Re:Leaks...

[cybergibbons]

Heat pipes generally don't contain water but some other kind of solvent which is specific to the temperature range they want the pipe to work at. Generally it's not particularly conductive, but a bit flammable, not that there is enough heat to ignite it in a PC. Leaks would also tend to be slow and could be picked up by a rise in temperature.

Re:Leaks...

[cybergibbons]

Saying this, after reading a pdf spec of the case, it does appear to be water. However, plain distilled water, in the tiny quantities involved with heat pipes shouldn't cause damage. Though being evaporated and condensed repeatedly on the inside of a copper tube with a wick may cause some impurities to get in there.

Re:Rough translation, hopefully better than babelf

[Anonymous Coward]

[uhm "(un)endliche Ruhe im Karton" means so much more though :-)].
Means as much as. "Endless silence in the box".

[ "Ja naturlich bleibe ich am Ball ..." ???]
I keep an eye on it.
Its some sort of soccer description.

[ "Da bekomme ich feuchte Augen"].
I am so happy/excited, i am short before crying.
With othjer words, my eyes are getting wet.

Okay, but damn its ugly.

[Psiren]

If I had a dog with a face that ugly, I'd shave is arse and teach it to walk backwards... ;)

Misleading Article

[Ripplet]

Although the submitter got it right, the article heading says "Fanless PC".

Let's see, where are the fans inside a normal PC? On the case sure. But also in the PSU, on the motherboard, and on the graphics card.
Now maybe they have solutions for these, but this invariably means ripping off the supplied fans to fit the new heat pipes etc., thus completely voiding your warranties on those items. And if you just paid 400 bucks for the latest graphics card (which is by far the noisiest component in my current system), you might not want to do that!

So, while I certainly applaud any step forward in the quest for silence, the case on its own is by no means the end of it.

Re:Misleading Article

[evilviper]

So, you think we should ignore cars because current buggies need to be modified to accomodate them?

Come on now... No new technology comes out, being supported by every compatible device on the planet.

If you aren't willing to void your warranty (and don't know how to put a decent fan on your video card), that doesn't mean the rest of the world is doomed to live in a world of computer-fan noise.

Re:Misleading Article

[The Wicked Priest]

Power supplies generally come with the cases, and that's true here. Look at the pictures -- there's a fanless power supply.

CPU fans aren't fixed parts, either; they're meant to be replacable. No warranty voiding there. I've never seen a fan that was actually "on the motherboard", personally.

As for the graphics card, just get one that's not a monster. I've never had a fan on my graphics card, and I hope I never do.

Re:Misleading Article

[HoppQ]

Zalman actually does have a heatpipe solution for graphics cards. Unfortunately, they don't work as a fanless solution with modern accelerator cards (at least not all of them). I got myself one hoping to silence my GeForce Ti4200 based graphics card, but found out that the heatpipe solution just didn't cool it enough (got a system hang shortly after boot) without good airflow, which requires a fan to blow at the heatpipe solutions heatsinks. Zalman even acknowledges this since their newest heatpipe graphics card solution has a handy place for attaching a fan.

So cooling that $400 card without a fan is probably impossible right now, however it can be done with a big low-noise fan instead of the possibly high-noise small fan it comes with (and you might not even need heatpipes to do it, just disable the onboard fan on the graphics card and put a new big fan blowing on the cards heatsink instead and see if it works, it has worked for me in the past, YMMV).

Re:Misleading Article

[Anonymous Coward]

CPU fans aren't fixed parts, either; they're meant to be replacable. No warranty voiding there. I've never seen a fan that was actually "on the motherboard", personally.

Actually, your wrong. If you replace an AMD Athlon XP factory fan with some other cooling device you DO void the warranty. Maybe you should actually read one before commenting. Just cause you CAN do it, and it looks easy, doesn't mean it's OK!

Re:Misleading Article

[Big_Breaker]

You set up your passive cooler poorly if you can't get your 4200 cool enough.

I lapped my cooler pads and used arctic silver 3 instead of the grease supplied. I also made sure that all the attachments were square and uniform. I also pried the shim off my radeon 9700 pro.

My Radeon 9700 Pro now runs cooler than it did stock and my whole PC is silent. My wife kept cycling the power b/c she didn't hear a fan firing up.

Makes sense only if seriously upgradable

[heironymouscoward]

The case is very cool (metaphorically) but looks like it will cost somewhat more than the innards of the PC. In that case, I would hope that it'd last at least 5-10 years, meaning several upgrades. Given that motherboard changes seem to make this pretty much impossible, I would rather buy a cheap case and stick the whole thing in a separate room.

For notebooks, this looks like a good technology: notebooks cost more anyhow and you can't really stick them away in a room somewhere. Plus, most notebooks really suffer from heating issues, and an on-off fan tends to be more annoying than a constant hum.

But best of all would be a way to turn excess heat back into power. Heatpumps of some kind?

What about SMP systems?

[dooby]

It doesn't look as though a dual CPU system will work with this case :-( The CPU cooler requires 3 contacts at the case end - looks like there'd be a bit of a space issue if that was doubled...

Shame really, 'cos otherwise I might pay that price for a near-silent PC. Just my damn NetWinder to shut up then...
--
http://bits.bris.ac.uk/dooby/

BabelFish translation

[Junior J. Junior III]

I love direct translations of strange foreign langauge idioms

Info.

15.7..2003

Zalman exhaustless PC

Preface:

Finally, infinite peace in the cardboard. It has for a long time to finally such a product in the mass-market appears lasted. The manufacturer will be able itself to hardly save from the many vorbestellungen. On the paper convincingly we wait technically already now on the first samples and price information. One might be now already clear however, the price far below all self's building Konstruktiuonen will lie, since Zalman is specialized in absolute mass production as well known. 6 Heatpipes for the CCU and 2 for the graphics map as well as 10 for the non removable disk might keep the system optimally cool. We are pleased on it and now already say ourselves tschuess your exhaust and Krachmacher! Hopefully is soon Christmas: -)

I remain natural at the ball...

Which one is to there still say, a piece of cream of the superlative. There I get damp eyes. Heatpipes (18 pieces!!) and radiator boxes up to decline.

Peace in completed form it a housing completely closed in itself is there. First PC the housing where one also the optical drive assemblies to dam and decouple can!

More is technically not feasible!

More quietly gehts not!

Starting from October over

to refer www.alternate.de.

Thus begin now already strongly with saving.

Housing

underwater PC?

[mikevdg]

Just an idea...

Instead of blowing air around, putting hoses in your computer or using heat-pipes, would it be possible to submerge the whole motherboard and hard-drive in some non-electricity-conducting liquid? De-ionized water???

Michael.

Re:underwater PC?

[harmonics]

Yep, it was done on Octools.com. The old "Fluorinert" story. Check it out...

Re:underwater PC?

[Rovaani]

There was some kind of a craze for submerged motherboards during the year 2000. The liquid they used was mineral oil.

Picture

Re:underwater PC?

[The Wicked Priest]

De-ionized water gets re-ionized real quick in that environment. You can't use that. But there are some other liquids that work. Ultimately, though, you have to cool the liquid itself; while it conducts heat more efficiently than air, it can't keep absorbing it.

Re:underwater PC?

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem with the fluorinert machine was A: meant for overclocking, and not simply removing normal operating heat. B: these idiots used the fluroinert in the intercooling circuit. Any idea what happens to a thick viscous liquid at -~100F?

Re:underwater PC?

[Anonymous Coward]

the problem with that solution is that the non-conductive liquid costs about 10,000 a gallon

Re:underwater PC?

[Anonymous Coward]

The real problem is the harddrive: there is a small hole through which the hard drive compensates presure change.

Re:underwater PC?

[0111 1110]

You still have the problem of cooling the fluid though. As with water-block cooling, you still need a heatsink and fan (radiator)at some point. The heat needs to be transfered to the air. The more efficiently your computer heats your room the more efficiently you are cooling your computer. That's what I like about combining a case with a gigantic heat sink.

Re:underwater PC?

[0111 1110]

Interesting story. What I don't understand is that he wanted to cool a nonconductive liquid with liquid nitrogen, but what was he planning on cooling the liquid nitrogen with? It seems like he had no plan for when the nitrogen would phase change to a gas and warm up to room temperature and above. Maybe he planned on just replenishing the system with more liquid nitrogen after it warmed up. It seems like he was missing a viable refrigeration system.

Re:underwater PC?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the point was he just watned to get the system as cold as possible to be able to overclock as high as possible.

this on'e an antique piece

[SPravin]

In the age of blades and nano-computing, I found this rather funny. I mean what kind of a production environment will like to have such massive computer cases clogging up all their physical space. Personally I'd much rather make do with a blade even if it did produce a lot of heat. In terms of feasibility I give this thing a 1 on a scale of 10. It has more antique value than anything else!

Re:this on'e an antique piece

[CaptnMArk]

This is for desktop (under desktop :) use.

There's no change in heat output, just much less noise.

Fanless = dust free?

[slim]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if there's no air-cooling going on whatsoever, does that mean the case can be completely sealed against dust?

I'm sure inhaling the dust that collects in computer cases is a health hazard, if you do it often enough.

Re:Fanless = dust free?

[DavidYaw]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if there's no air-cooling going on whatsoever, does that mean the case can be completely sealed against dust?

I'm sure inhaling the dust that collects in computer cases is a health hazard, if you do it often enough.

If there's no fans, then there'd be very little air circulation, and therefore nothing to suck the dust in.

Re:Fanless = dust free?

[funwithBSD]

Considering most of that dust is probably YOU, in little tiny bits of dead skin, it is unlikely to harm you

Re:Fanless = dust free?

[slim]

Considering most of that dust is probably YOU, in little tiny bits of dead skin, it is unlikely to harm you

It's a home to dustmites, to which plenty of people are allergic. I'll grant you that opening up your own PC a couple of times a year won't harm you, but a PC engineer might expect to inhale a hell of a lot of other people's dust in the course of his job.

Whenever I hear the name "Zalman"

[vudufixit]

I think of the "Red Shoe Diaries" Zalman: Softcore porn for hardcore geeks?

Complete manual translation

[Apogee]

OK, this is the complete text translated (and I have to add, this guy gets *pretty* emotional about this case, and uses a lot of colloquialisms).

Zalman fan-less PC

Preamble:

Finally, never-ending silence in the box. It took a long time for a product like this to be produced for the mass market. The manufacturer likely will be swamped by the large number of pre-orders. While its technical specs already convince us on paper, we are waiting for the first samples and pricing information. But one thing should be clear right away: The price will be way below any self-made constructions, since Zalman is known to specialize on uncompromising mass production. 6 heat pipes for the CPU and two more for the graphics card, as well as 10 for the hard disk should keep the system optimally cool. Let's look forward to it, and start saying good-bye to all these fans and noise makers right now. I hope it's christmas soon :-)

Well, what more can I say, the cream of the crop. It brings tears to my eyes. More heat pipes (18 of them!!) and cooling elements than you ever wanted.

Silence in its perfected form, since this is a completely closed case. The first PC case where also optical drives can be de-coupled and their noise dampened.

More is not technically feasible!

More silent is not possible!

From october on, this case will be available at www.alternate.de

So, start saving now!

And of course, I'll keep at it. (I guess the author means he'll post updates)

Re:Complete manual translation

[Sunda666]

Yeah, but I'll wait for a dual-cpu version, and for a multi-HD version too, like up to 4 HDDs.

then I will consider buying one.

cheers.

Re:Complete manual translation

[Anonymous Coward]

1: And without further ado...I give you a fanless case.

2: Why can't I start it?

1: It doesn't come with a power supply.

2: ???

1. Well we wanted to sell it fanless, and we didn't have any more heatpipes for the powersupply.

Wolf in Giraffes Clothing

[veldmon]

I can neither speak nor read German. However, I can make sound judgments based on detailed pictures. I know a great deal about computer cooling systems. The detailed pictures are provided, so I will share my opinion.

The surface area of the pipe is significantly diminished compared to other similarly designed systems. This leads me to believe that there will be much more "air heat". Fortunately, this shouldn't affect the circuitry.

Another difference I picked up on immediately is the use of motor oil as the cooling fluid. This will mean that the entire chassis will be at least 5 pounds heavier. Not a big concern for most.

The final aspect I will comment on is the use of "induction through aerodynamics". I will only say that you better have your air conditioner blowing toward the computer, or better yet, a small fan.

Preliminarily, I give it a B-. I do hold out hope that it is better than the pictures show it to be.

Re:Wolf in Giraffes Clothing

[Zyrill]

i think, considering the cost/usefullness, a C- is more appropiate - i mean: 1100 $ for a stupid CASE? i beg your pardon...

YEY! NO DUST!

[jgarland79]

I BIG advantage to this is.. IT WON'T GET FILLED WITH DUST! Dust is a conductor of electricity.. too much dust can clog fans and make your computer act really strange. A big problem with on site retail network servers is.. nobody ever dusts them.. When I was working for CVS part of my kit was a can of air.. I used it all up the first day. So every store I went to I had to commission a can of air off the store shelf.. one day I was at a store that didn't have any cans of air left.. so I had to use a blowdryer.. Anyhow.. I think this case is great.. no little windows or any of that fun stuff.. just a nice sturdy case.. and it's from germany.. They do a pretty good job at making sturdy cars too.

Re:YEY! NO DUST!

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you fail to realize that at least one of the doors of this case will be required to remain WIDE OPEN for, well, ever? Now, I may be crazy, but I'm pretty sure that throws your glee filled claim that it won't get filled with dust right out one of those little windows you were referring to.

Re:YEY! NO DUST!

[jgarland79]

Both doors close on the case. There is a small hole at the bottom for the powercord and other cables.. The point is.. there is no fan sucking in dusty air.

Re:What's the point?

[mhifoe]

Whilst I like the case it's a bit pricey. In fact it costs 3 times as much as the lasty base unit I bought.

You can achieve a quiet PC for much less cash. I bought:
A Big HSF with 80mm temp controlled fan (normally runs at 200rpm).
A Fortron PSU with 120mm fan.
2 temp controlled case fans which run at 1300rpm

For about $100 you can make your machine so quiet you can barely tell it's on.

More info

Re:BabelFish translation *yawn*

[Anonymous Coward]

Teach a man to fish...

Too bad there's no saying about what happens when you teach a man to babelfish. Maybe then we could have avoided yet another "everyone see the funny babelfish translation" post.

Breakfast?

[tomzyk]

I like my CPU's hot! It gives me an opportunity to fry my breakfast in the morning.

Dude! You can FRY coffee?!?

Some translation clarification

[sczimme]

[uhm "(un)endliche Ruhe im Karton" means so much more though :-)].

This refers to "peace/quiet [Ruhe] in the case/box".

[ "Ja naturlich bleibe ich am Ball ..." ???]

"Naturally I remain on the ball" - "On the ball" is a colloquialism that means "attentive" or "vigilant".

It makes you feel all soddy inside [ "Da bekomme ich feuchte Augen"].

"My eyes [Augen] get moist", i.e. "I am emotionally/spritually moved".

Pictures speak louder..

[Anonymous Coward]

..than words? For a good laugh, use Google's language tools to translate the page from German to English. I remain natural at the ball..

Apple PowerMac

[rjstanford]

You don't really need to go this far to achieve silence. At least, not for sufficiently small values of silence.

Check out the new Apple G5's cooling system. It uses a ton of ultra-quiet fans instead, moving high-volume low-speed air over the components. It puts out 35dbA, which is less than even a fairly quiet laptop fan these days.

Now, admittedly the cooling technology isn't as creative, but considering that for $670 more than the estimated cost of the case alone here, you get a nice IBM 970 processor, hard-drive, OSX, and a lot of other goodies, that's really not a bad trade-off.

And yes, I took the high end of the estimated case cost ($1100) and the cheapest G5 ($1770). But still.

Nice!

[HouseOfMisterE]

That, my friend, is one bad ass case.

And the heat goes...where?

[Junks Jerzey]

Yes, it pipes all that heat away from the CPU, and right into the room with you. Cooling solutions are not the answer for the upcoming 100+ watt monster CPUs. So far there isn't a good answer.

Re:And the heat goes...where?

[Tommy Boomfiger]

Umm, no matter what you do the heat goes into the room with you. Unless you have an exhaust that takes the heat right out of the room, there is usually hot air coming out of the power supply. With this case its radiating from the sides, but its still heat coming out of the case right into the room with you.

Re:And the heat goes...where?

[Junks Jerzey]

Umm, no matter what you do the heat goes into the room with you. Unless you have an exhaust that takes the heat right out of the room, there is usually hot air coming out of the power supply. With this case its radiating from the sides, but its still heat coming out of the case right into the room with you.

Exactly. And the point is that using heatpipes or other fancy cooling technologies does not get around this problem at all. The existence of such cooling technologies is not an excuse for constantly increasing the heat output of CPUS.

Re:And the heat goes...where?

[Hatta]

Then buy a transmeta.

Re:And the heat goes...where?

[karnal]

Well, you better turn off the lights in your house, because you're letting alot of that power out through the lights as heat as well (incandescents and halogen are big offenders, iirc).

I know my computer room heats up a few degrees with 3-4 computers on, but I deal with it as a necessary evil.

Re:And the heat goes...where?

[brdweb]

Then quit whining and get a vaopchill case! :)

Oh No!

[matresstester]

Our boxem got Slashdotten!

Warranty

[CracktownHts]

There already is a fanless PSU available off the shelf (expensive):

http://www.siliconacoustics.com/silpc.html

There are also plenty of motherboards with passive northbridge cooling, and IIRC some Taiwanese manufacturer now offers a newer (GF FX?) heatpipe-cooled AGP card. No need to void any warranties.

Is it really German?

[frostman]

I know it's easy to make German jokes, and the review linked to was German, but it looks to me like Zalman is a Korean company.

Anybody know different?

Re:Rough translation, hopefully better than babelf

[Giggles Of Doom]

I am looking forward to this too, though it doesn't appear it will work with my SMP system, unless I get some more pipes. :)

Amazingly ugly

[shaper]

Wow, that is the ugliest case I have seen in years. It doesn't even have a nice, clean industrial look. It's just ugly, really really ugly. Oh well, maybe I can hide it behind a wall or in a closet. But wait! if I do that, why would I care that it's fanless? :P

Googl Translation

[Salden]

Zalman exhaustless PC

Preface:

Finally, infinite peace in the cardboard. It has for a long time to finally such a product in the mass-market appears lasted. The manufacturer will be able itself to hardly save from the many vorbestellungen. On the paper convincingly we wait technically already now on the first samples and price information. One might be now already clear however, the price far below all self's building Konstruktiuonen will lie, since Zalman is specialized in absolute mass production as well known 6 Heatpipes for the CCU and 2 for the graphics map as well as 10 for the non removable disk might keep the system optimally cool. We are pleased on it and now already say ourselves tschuess your exhaust and Krachmacher! Hopefully is soon Christmas: -)

Which one is to there still say, a piece of cream of the superlative. There I get damp eyes. Heatpipes (18 pieces!!) and radiator boxes up to decline.

Peace in completed form it a housing completely closed in itself is there. First PC the housing where one also the optical drive assemblies to dam and decouple can!

More is technically not feasible!

More quietly gehts not!

Starting from October over to refer www.alternate.de.

Thus begin now already strongly with saving.

I remain natural at the ball... </translation> this is a great demonstration as to why there will never be even close-to-perfect translation software.

More silent is not possible?

[uberdave]

"6 heat pipes for the CPU and two more for the graphics card, as well as 10 for the hard disk should keep the system optimally cool."

What? Nothing for the power supply? It's hardly worth silencing the cpu fan when the biggest, noisiest fan is still whirring away.

Re:More silent is not possible?

[Apogee]

Actually, as shown on the spec sheet pdf which somebody else in this thread linked to, the box uses a "No-Fan Power Supply" employing "MPPT technology and the HSC method" ... in brief, heat from the PSU seems to be transferred to the case shell, which acts as heat sink.

I like the sound

[johnnyR]

I'm probably ganna get flamed but, the sound of the fan is actually very calming to me.....

English story link

[moebius_4d]

Here's a link to a story about the case in English. HTH.

I love the 'fish

[mengel]

Babelfish translates:

Finally, infinite peace in the cardboard...

nothing in nature is instataneous?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it all depends on how you quantify an 'instant', i.e. how many fractions of a second is it?

I am reminded of when I'm waiting for my girlfriend to be ready to go out.

"in just a minute"
"wait a second!"

As evidenced by women, time is governed by the laws of relativity.

Re:nothing in nature is instataneous?

[HardCase]

I think it all depends on how you quantify an 'instant', i.e. how many fractions of a second is it?

In context with the post to which you are replying, "instant" would mean zero delay from one event to the next, that is, zero fractions of a second.

If there is a delay, any delay, even the tiniest fraction of a second, then it's not instantaneous. Maybe it's "almost instantaneous".

I realize that I am straying somewhat off topic here, but to give an example, the memory modules that I design, simulate and test have a transmission delay of something on the order of half a nanosecond from a register to the memory device. That's .0000000005 second (5x10^-10). Is that instantaneous? Not in my case. That's a significant amount of time because when all is said and done, by the time a memory cycle is finished, I may only have 50 to 100 picoseconds of time left over.

The long and the short? "Instantaneous" means zero delay between one event and the next. "Almost instantaneous" is something else.

-h-

5 year lifespan

[johnny6vasquez]

First off, I really like this case.

What I'd like to point out about the method they are using to transport the heat from the hotspots to the sinks is that Zalman is using heatpipes, which eventually lose the fluid inside them and stop working.

Before I go and dish out $1G for this case, I would want to be sure that there is a refill valve in the system similar to refridgerators, or that there is an assurance that there will be a lifetime supply of replacement heatpipe units for this machine. I mean my lifetime.

The product PDF states lifetime rated at 50k hours. This is about 5 years time, which isn't as long as you'd expect given that there are no moving parts other than gas/liquid.

So, definitely still a winner in my book, but with a shorter lifetime than expected.

Or for common terminology

[phorm]

"Cream of the cream" isn't often used, usually one uses the french: Creme de la creme
In english, it's usually the "cream of the crop" I believe?

What's all this reference to cream for anyways though?

Re:Or for common terminology

[Jucius Maximus]

""Cream of the cream" isn't often used, usually one uses the french: Creme de la creme In english, it's usually the "cream of the crop" I believe?"

In english canada we use both. I'm not sure about the USA though as they don't have to learn French in school so they probably don't know what "La Creme de la creme" it means.

(fscking slashcode won't let the accents through ... stupid ... )

Re:What's the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I've done that too. It's such a pain putting it all back together, so I don't.

Third Technique

[virg_mattes]

The third is to get a properly-sized pipe bender from a plumbing supply store. It's not that hard to get the right tool for the job, folks.

Virg

Market Target

[virg_mattes]

> I don't mind the noise.

Then you're not exactly the target market for this case, are you?

Virg

Wow!

[itwerx]

I've never actually felt lust for a PC case before now...

My favorite line...

[Cypherus]

...in the google translation of the german webpage into english...

I remain natural at the ball...

Those crazy Germans...

Zalman TNN 500A

[athakur999]

Shouldn't that be the Zalman Spike TV 500A now?

Innacurate

[Nazmun]

The power requirements for the cpu alone is no where near 300 and 450 watts for intel and amd cpu's. Most people don't have powersupplies that good and it's not surprising to see new HP's, Compaq's, and Dell's come with 250 watt power supplies for the entire computer.

Re:What's the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

man at least put the darn thing in a pizza box from pizza hut....lol

I don't know if you noticed but. . .

[PgDn]

It seems you have to open the whole doors, front and back, to get access to your pci cards or usb so if you were to use a mouse the door would be completely open which would gather more dust since there are no fans blowing it away. It also looks like the heatpipes release thier heat on the exterior of the case which sucks after a lan party and you want to go home but have to wait for your case to cool down before you can touch it. Man just buy a quite fan for crying out loud.

My 12-pack needs someplace cool

[NotoriousBob]

Does it come with a compartment for my 12-pack?

smaller version

[Anonymous Coward]

This silent system is a little less intimidating.

FCC class?

[mikeee]

Ok, but isn't one of the points of a metal case to block EM interference given off by all those high frequency electronics?

Reversible Computing

[meehawl]

European? No. Ignorant? Yes. CPUs, no matter the heat limitations, require a certain wattage to operate properly.

I think it is you, my friend, who is ignorant of the potential of reversible computing for reducing the Wattage. It is possible to keep current flowing but reduce the amount of energy lost per second (Watts) by recycling the computations. Of course, because the large chip vendors are so focussed on time-to-market and scaling speed, they are ignoring or de-emphasisizing the development of technolgoies that would reduce their power consumption. Auto companies generally ignore efficiency, unless forced to increase mileage through regulation. I wonder how long it will be before semiconductor companies are similarly regulated?

Here are some links.

To see why this is so, consider a modern semiconductor circuit. Information is stored as 1's and 0's, with the 1's meaning a capacitor is storing a charge at some voltage. A 0 means the capacitor stores no electrons and sits at ground potential. To switch a bit from off to on today involves stuffing electrons into a capacitor until it is charged. To go the other way, from 1 to 0, requires grounding the capacitor. "The real dissipation comes from the fact that when you switch you normally throw away the energy that's sitting in the device capacitances. The charge is sitting there, and the energy is stored in there, and you normally throw that away. That's the easiest thing to do with it" ... The amount of energy wasted per capacitor is minuscule, but discharges take place millions of times or more a second all over a chip. What's more, standard programming practice is to clear all registers and set them to a known state before beginning an algorithm. That, too, throws away information.

Idea

[ajs318]

Seeing how the heat pipe worked {link somewhere above, can't be bothered to find it} made me think "Stirling engine" for some reason. Then I got to thinking you could power a Stirling engine from the CPU {it must provide cooling, since it is doing work; even when only lightly loaded, it has to dissipate the heat over a wider area than it's picking up heat from}. Only thing is, I don't know what you could actually power with the engine. It probably wouldn't be fast enough to use for a hard drive.

About the only use I can think of for it is ..... a fan!

Still, some case mod nut is bound to try it now anyway just to see if it can be done.

But have you seen the latest Bond villian?

[Ayanami Rei]

He's Korean and he DEFINITELY looks evil. He's got frickin diamonds in his face!

So I can appreciate Korean == evil too.

Mod ideas

[ixpro]

Just give it a few weeks, and some dork is gonna mod this case by installing 6 jet powered fans, blow holes, and a see through plaxiglass window...

Anal pedant

[plierhead]

I think overall you can measure the amount of heat that a device will produce by measuring how much it draws from the power source, sinc ein the end all that juice is being turned to heat anyway.

Hyuk, hyuk, not quite - you forgot about the LEDs on the front panel and perhaps also on the network card. Subtract at least 14mW from the total for light !

Anal Nitpick

[MarcQuadra]

Right, how could I have forgotten? :-)

But technically, wouldn't the photons from the LEDs get converted to heat energy as they travel through the air and/or hit the walls?

It's not 100% accurate, but the draw of your devices in watts is roughly how much heat they will pump into the room, right?

Fucking insensistive clout...

[node159]

Fucking americans, still cant get over WW II.

I guess thats why they are trying to start WW III.