My family and I are entitled to as much safety as we can afford. That others drviers cannot afford the same degree of protection isn't my fault, nor is it my problem. Like I said, I'm already a good driver... If other people manage not to crash into me, then there's no safety issue.
You are entitled to as much safety as you can afford, but not with putting other people at risk in the same time. You are just as safe in a Honda Odyssey, right? I'll take your word for it that you are a good driver, and thank you for it, but many people aren't. Hell, I just about got hit walking to work this morning by someone backing out into the sidewalk.
That, my friend, is not a fact. It is an opinion. The difference is that a fact can be supported by some kind of evidence, and an opinion can be spouted in the absence of any evidence.
I suppose I should say, "The fact that most people are bad drivers, precipates most people that own SUVs don't know how to drive well and it compounds into a worse scenario with a large vehicle" -- better?:)
Take the Import Street Racer crowd as an example. Sure, their cars are smaller, but that doesn't make me feel any safer when they go whizzing by at double the speed limit, or as they dodge in and out of dialy traffic as though there was a prize waiting for them at their destination.
As a racer, I can assure you that if you continue on your path, you are very safe. Much more so than say, trying to cut me off:) The only time I will go dodging through traffic is when some asshole refuses to get out of the left hand lane. The thing is, a lot of the racers aren't speeding to get to the destination faster, they're speeding because it's something they enjoy. Sometimes you just let loose, and go. It's usually much more sane to do it at night when there is no traffic out, and I've tapped a car going near 160 at 2 in the morning before, and it's relatively safe for me to do so. I know how to handle a sports car, I can drift very well, I can pull some pretty crazy manuevers to keep myself safe.
Bad drivers make other people turn into bad drivers. People who can't merge, have too big of cars (and yes, the H2 is too big. I don't care who you are, you don't need a vehicle that big), that's the root problem of the roads these days.
And yes, the Segway is a dumb idea. It'd be cool for $300 and I'd probably buy one. For $5K, that's half a new Yamaha R1 superbike.
Or ugly kids? Or poor kids? Or kids with birthmarks? How many times to you have to be publicly slammed before you admit to being wrong? Please, defend your "I hate niggers" analogy again. It was so funny the first time you tried!
Yes, lets keep the extremes as the example because that's what happens the most! Are you poor, ugly, have a birthmark? Well, most people have a birthmark, but rarely is it predominant and not able to be covered. Being poor has nothing to do with being bullied, poor kids bully rich kids and rich kids bully poor kids. You say handicapped kids and ugly kids, well, that's the extreme and uncommon example of bullying.
If all you can do is defend your stance on why you got bullied is by listing extreme examples of kids getting picked on, than it just shows exactly why you did get bullied.
Do you even know what fallible means? I think you meant "culpable". Look both words up, and figure out which one fits the argument you are trying to make. Now, normally, you're supposed to know what a word means BEFORE you use it, but I'll give you this one, because I feel bad for retards, and you've already been thouroughly embarrassed. Even if you're too dense to realize it.
It was a typo, I meant to type "infallible", which you obviously do believe thinking that you are so high on a pedestal.
I've met elementary school students that would have a hard time not feeling morally and intellectually superior to a troll such as yourself. I don't feel superior to everybody. Just you.
Thank you for this, proving I win again. If you could only understand what the game is. It's right in front fo your face, and you just don't get it. It's incredibly amusing, how much more are you going to show you are an idiot before understanding what's going on?
Actually, I never got my ass beat. Sure sounds like you did. Why were you such a pussy?
Funny how you sit there and bitch about being bullied then try to claim you never took an ass-beating, then you also claim that you hit a kid with a bike chain causing 14 stitches. Oh, you big strong man. You never got in a real fight, and then hit some kid with a bike chain because you couldn't fight him fairly? Yeah, you prove your case real well. No wonder you aren't popular.
I have lost 2 street fights in my life, and I'm proud. I've won many more. I also have competeted in tournaments. I'm cross-trained in 4 different martial arts. I don't need to hit some kid with a bike chain because I'm too big of a pussy to fight fairly. I stand up for myself before it comes to me snapping and fighting like a little bitch.
Whoah, buddy. We're talking 11-year-olds, not prison inmates. No one "allows" anything when they're a child. There is most certainly a social scale for children. Everyone knows that. Your attitude is the same one that blames children for other kinds of abuse. Is it their fault their parents get divorced? Is it also their fault when they get sexually abused? Sure, kids can make better decisions, and avoid some of it, but it's not their responsibility. It's the bully's, the antagonist, the aggressor. He or she shouldn't be doing what they do. We all agree on that.
Right, when everybody wants to blame the bullies and hold them accountable, but say that the victims don't have a choice and are just children, who don't know better. Nice hypocracy there, is it really that great to not be capable of complex associative logic? If they are a bully, they should be held accountable. If they aren't, just antagonizign the bully, then they are a witless child. I think you should be the next Judge Judy.
No one's crying on your shoulder, pal. Especially not the women in your life. They go somewhere else for compassion, I imagine. Remember, I'm replying to a post YOU made. Get your head out of your ass.
You spent this entire thread pissing and moaning about the unfair treatment you endure(d) by all these mean bullies without realizing that you are a complete and total tool. You make wild threats, "Banishment from slashdot" and expect people to take you seriously? I don't need to do anything to make you look like an idiot, you do it yourself. I've already posted links to this thread so that plenty of people can see exactly how ridiculous you are.
Nor do I ever plan on getting to know you any better. You're not smart, or funny, and on the internet that's all that counts. You "are" words on a web page, nothing more. I mean, really, nothing more.
Aw, but please! I want a whiney, sniveling, kid who can't get off his mommas tit as a friend! Really! The world is so unfair to you, how do you cope? You can say that I'm not smart, nor funny, but it doesn't matter because you don't understand the joke.
Was your girlfriend the one I took home from the bar last night? Probably. She likes gin and rough anal, she told me to tell you that, since you can't seem to pick up on it yourself. Try being more sensitive to her needs.
This is great, you say that I'm an asshole then you go and try to insult my girlfriend? What insults have I delivered upon you, other than you are an over-sensitized, mommas boy, that is a complete pussy who needs a serious ass-whooping to understand that life really isn't fair. Congratulations, you have stooped well below any level that you think I sit at.
My labeling of you isn't so much an insult, as it is a brash way of labeling you. You cry, and moan, and say you gave everyone the benefit of the doubt. You say you never picked on anyone, then go off about my girlfriend being unfaithful? Wow, seriously man, you need to get a grip on your situation. You keep saying I'm an idiot, but why?
My only stance is that you shouldn't treat the "victims" of bullies as clueless children who just happened to be the target of a bully. They did something to become the bullies target, and most of the time it's because they're pretentious. We're talking about 11 year old kids, as you said. The little scuffles endured between 11 year olds isn't a bad thing. Only to complete and total pussies who are better off outside of the gene pool, instead of being the joke of natural selection.
Oh boo-hoo, I'm telling you that you had an active part in your bullying, and the reason why you were bullied is because you are a complete and total tool (just look at this thread, do you have any clue how big of a dork you look like?) and think you are so damn l33t you can "banish" people from slashdot.
You "are" words on a web page, nothing more. I mean, really, nothing more.
Wrong, and it's proven by your attempt to insult my girlfriend. I riled you up, admit it. You don't want to get to know me, and you formed an opinion of me.
With this, I win. You lose, but I'm sure you are used to that by now.
What's wrong with the Hummer H2, and what about it would make the buyer an idiot?
Aside from the fact that SUVs are proven to be unsafe to other drivers on the roads? The fact that most people who drive SUVs don't know how to drive well, especially a vehicle that big. The difference between the H2 and the Hummer is the H2 is a luxury car. It is not made to go off-roading. For that you buy an H1.
H2s aren't that expensive, when it comes to status symbols either. You look much cooler going around in a CLK55, S600, SL600, BMW 7 series, etc. H2s make you look like a total dork. The only girls who will think your H2 is a cool car are those who don't understand Little-dick-syndrome, and that the H2 doesn't really make your dick bigger.
I wouldn't say that the buyer is an idiot, I would say it is a dumbass choice in a vehicle. Unless you use an SUV for sport purposes, I think the person makes a dumbass choice if they buy one. If you are driving around town, get a fucking car and save the other drivers on the road and a few bucks in gas.
As a broadband provider to part of fly-over country, I can attest that things are tight. I just had a fellow who's been overanxious for broadband to come to his town announce yesterday that he's "holding off, paying down a few credit cards, and taking it cautiously with the war coming and all the new taxes they're dumping on us."
I'm paying off everything this year, saving up some money and moving to Japan next year. For now, the plans are only temporary, but if anything particularly nasty happens in the US while I'm away, I don't think I'll be coming back.
A lot of people are upset about the economy, new taxes, US policy, but they don't do much about it other than hold up some anti-war signs and pay the taxes.
Foreign policy has nothing to do with it, but for the record I hope you're not trying to say Hussein is a pacifist and the US is a bully? I mean, come on, it's not even the same situation.
You said "There can only be one truly good reason for violence, and that is violence itself", so now are you going back on that? Saying that if the possibility of violence is there, than it is ok? It's an analogy here, and an extrapolation of your view.
I don't even think kids are so violent, They just want to create their little social structures as the article originally stated and violence is one of the tools used to that end, in my case it was the only one I responded to, and unfortunately for them, that response was negative. When it became clear it wasn't going to work they gave up.
No, they aren't so violent. Most of the kids who get bullied are provoking the bullies, and it isn't so bad. Then they go and cry like a bitch with a skinned knee. Oh, it's so unfair! Look what happened to me, without stopping to think that they were antagonizing the bully to do it. People like that are stupid, and yes, they deserve what they get if they can't figure it out. Just like if I were to walk around Harlem with a shirt saying, "I hate niggers." I'd deserve the ass-beating handed down to me.
Could this possibly be because people keep picking on them? Try walking around your office shoving people into broom closets and see what your coworkers think of you. I guarantee that people will start thinking you're none too bright. I don't understand how so many people on here are saying that people deserve to be picked on because of their thoughts. I'm pretty sure that "but I didn't like the way he thought about me!" would be a valid defense for someone in an assault trial, and I don't think it's fair to blame the victim for "thinking quietly to himself".
I have to say the nerd starts it. The bully will walk around looking for someone, sure. The nerd is the first to let his thoughts seep into his actions, and do something which "justifies" bullying.
If you don't understand that what you think affects what you do, I would like to play poker with you. With very large stakes. What's really sad about all of this is that only a few select people actually understood the meaning of what I wrote, I didn't think I'd actually have to append, "thinking quiety to themselves, and letting it pour out in their actions"
Everyone has an answer: hide, run away, take the beating, fight, etc. NOTHING works when you're dealing with people who don't give a shit about other people. Take the beating, they'll beat you up the same way every day (no fucking thanks), fight back, you might hurt one of em (which I did at times).
There is a reason why it happened to you. There is something you did that made them pick you over another target. Don't try to pretend you didn't. As for taking the beating, they'll beat you the same way every day. You are so incredibly wrong. Bullies bully because they have power over you. If you show them that you really don't care about getting smacked around, they lose all power. It's not hard logic there, and bullies will get no respect by beating up a willing target. You'd be amazed at how much of all this goes around respect.
10 years old or not, your parents should have taught you the lessons you needed to know to figure out how to deal with bullies by then. Kids whine about getting bullied all the time, there is a reason why they get bullied. Either you put a stop to it, or you keep whining. In the words of Sean Connery, "Losers always whine about their best, while the winners go home and fuck the prom queen."
Isn't it human nature to try and make friends? When I started a new class, I just did the same old BS-ing like I did with "normal" people; however, these guys morphed into fiends when they were in groups. Actually, when I was in the situation where I had to deal with them one-on-one, they were nice guys. It was a gang mentality back in 5th grade. I didn't do anything but just be a kid. When I went to a different school in 6th grade I had no problems. I don't know why you have a quest to turn this around on me. You have the attitude that a burglar victim should be shunned for being weak and the burglar set free because he's superior due to genetics. I think your thought processes have gone a little to the wacko side. I had no part in being beaten up regardless of what has happened to you in your past. In other situations my smart mouth defeated me years later on, yes, but not during the worst of it. I don't buy your argument that I asked for it for one second.
I'm not turning it around on anybody. I'm saying that without a doubt, you did something for them to target you. If you try to befriend people who are mean, you don't get pissed off when they are mean to you, you suck it up. You go, "Damn, better luck next time." You said you kept talking to them, one on one? Well, there ya go. You know when they get in a group, they all start bashing you.
I'm not sure how you cannot understand your involvement. I'm not sure how you can not understand the difference between involvement and victim. You can be involved, and a victim, of something by being careless and stupid. It doesn't make it right, but it makes you look stupid. If a person lives in a bad neighborhood, and puts a big screen TV in front of an open window with a dolly right in front of it, it doesn't mean the burglary was right. It means that the person is fucking dumb.
You get mobbed by a gang of 5th graders, and you were (stupidly) trying to be nice to them while you knew, when they were together, they didn't like you. You don't see your involvement here?
So you're saying that if I'm surrounded by 6 or 7 guys and they're trying to beat me up that I shouldn't try to fight them off? Now who's the pussy? I DID NOT go looking for these guys. I generally tried to slip away without being seen because I was freakin' scared out of my mind after shitting sand for a week. God, you have to be one messed up guy to think that someone actually WANTED to be treated that way.
No, you shouldn't try to fight them off. You shouldn't try to run either. Haven't you ever heard of taking an ass-whooping? I've taken an ass-whooping before, I didn't raise a fist. I got beat for a few minutes, and it was over. I came out with a few bruises, and was generally ok. What's the big deal with that? You try to fight, you make it worse. You run away, you make it worse. It's no fun beating a person who wont fight back but will take it. I'd be pretty pissed off if my parents never taught me that lesson.
I DID NOT go looking for these guys. I generally tried to slip away without being seen because I was freakin' scared out of my mind after shitting sand for a week. God, you have to be one messed up guy to think that someone actually WANTED to be treated that way.
But you said you were friendly with them one-on-one? You did deal with them. If you had a history of altercations, why didn't you politely ask the teacher to avoid being paired up because of differences you weren't sure how to overcome?
Oh, shit, that would mean you would have to actually take control of a situation. Apparently, from this thread, you only like being the victim so you don't have to say anything is your fault. Here's a newflash, kid, everything that happens to you is your fault. Somethings you can help, somethings you can't, but everything that happens to you is a direct result of the choices you make. Don't like it, kill yourself, and make the choice that ends them all.
I never said anybody wanted to be treated that way, all I said is that people are treated that way. A lot of times they put up with it because that's the easiest choice to make. Here's a good way to improve your life, learn that everything that happens to you is your fault. Oh shit, some guy is going to mug me! Your fault. You walked down that street. That was your choice. It's his choice to mug you. It's your choice to walk down the street and get mugged. In hindsight, nobody makes the choices that lead to shit like this. They still make them.
Smart people learn from hind-sight, and learn the lesson before major damage is done. Those who don't, get progressively more fucked up from it. Apparently it took your seizures to learn, "Hey, don't be friendly in class to people who beat me up."
Dude, I did not pre-judge them as they did me. I judged them after I tried my best to a) befriend them b) avoid them c) beat the shit out of them. Nothing worked against a group of 6 or 7 guys.
You interacted with them first. Why? Why did you try to befriend someone who was mean? Then you try to beat the shit out of them. Smart. 6 or 7 guys, and you try to fight them. By yourself, or did you decide to get equally stupid people to do it too?
Are you the kind of person who says that a woman deserved it if she was raped? There's a parallel between that and what I was describing. I definitely don't know what it's like to be raped; however, I know that no woman is "asking" for it. Furthermore, I never asked for it. I believed from an early age that a person's space and body are not to be invaded. That is common human decency. Unless you are physically attacked, you have NO reason to aggressively touch or harm another person. Period.
That woman would deserve it if she prances around naked in the ghetto screaming profanities at people. Everybody has a hand in their own circumstances. End of story. Your social reclusion, attempt to be cool, mental pedestal, whichever. If you segregate yourself from the bullies in a way that allows them power of you, you become a mark. I figured this out in 8th grade, and got to watch kids fail to figure it out for years after. This was after scrapping and fighting with every bully I came in contact with. Want to hear about a broken nose, ribs, dislocated shoulder, metal bat to the head? I guarantee you I've been attacked by worse than you can imagine, but I stood my ground. I stood for what I believed in. I've had people try to stab me, shoot me, but I still had a part in it.
When I was in elementary school, the fights were little scuffles, didn't matter at all. When I was in junior high, that's where every so often something got out of hand. That's where bullying should stop. After that age if you haven't figured out how to supress a bully, than you are not smart enough to not get hurt. Comparing rape to getting bullied is stupid, end of story. I already commented on how it doesn't work.
And apparently if you got your ass beat so many times, it isn't common human decency. And I don't buy it, and I kicked one guys ass in my entire life that was physical unprovoked. He deserved it, he did something _very_ wrong to me. To this day he is probably still spooked by me, because I didn't hurt him very bad, just enough to get the message, then I told him I was going to kill him. Not now, but when he least expected it. When I could get away with it, when everybody but him and I forgot about what happened between us.
That's my warfare. The physical aspect of it was so minor, it is barely worth mentioning. He provoked me first. If you provoke someone capable and willing to do violence, you will receive violence upon you.
But, maybe you have a point. The doctor who treated me in the hospital told me that it wasn't the blow to the back of my 11 year old head that caused involuntary seizures, it was because I was a pussy!!! I forgot about that.
I, too, have taken MANY blows to the head prior and subsequent to the dictionary; however, the blow was done with enough force and at the correct spot to cause me problems I never asked for. To suggest otherwise is an insult.
All I'm saying is you come from physically weaker genes. 500 years ago, evolution still playing it's part in humanity, your genes would have been weeded off. So would mine. I have horrible eyesight, and was born with birth defects that were corrected by modern day surgical techniques. Yay for modern medicine getting rid of evolution. It has it's plusses and it has it's minuses. Unfortunately the thing that hasn't gone away is instinctual bullying for Alpha male status, but the gene pool isn't strong enough for all the kids to take it. Both psychologically and physically, they are getting weaker, smaller, more fragile. Look at all the psychobabble bullshit that is polluting the mentality of todays society. Drugs, drugs, drugs! That's the solution. You were traumatized by a bully? Sue! You aren't accountable, it's everyone elses problem! You have no hand in your own demise.
This shit is dispicable, and we're taking all the positive effects of evolution out of the question and leaving all the negative ones in. I'm curious if over the long term we end up more diverse, or if we all turn into lawyers.
There can only be one truly good reason for violence, and that is violence itself, that's not subjective, it's obvious when you're physically threatened, if someone attempts to put you in a headlock and you snap their arm like a twig, it doesn't matter what their original moralist social argument was for attempting to beat on you, they got what they deserved, end of story.
Well wrong. It's perfectly socially acceptable in the US. Just look at Iraq and Mr. Bush. You wonder why kids are so violent these days, it's what the older generation left behind.
Nothing has changed. There is no trauma, only weaker people now.
It simply amazes me how people come out of the woodworks to defend these Neaderthals. These people should not be seen in polite society. They should be locked away in special schools where they can't bother other people.
I have read almost the exact same argument as defense of segregated schools between white and black people. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's even related, just weird.
You don't even try to understand them. You don't understand that this is not about them being some savage monsters that you can't deal with. If they have power over you, it is because you let them. End of story. No further justification is going to change that fact.
The behavior resident in schools is identical to what happens and is accepted in the animal world known as the "Alpha Male". Humans just like to believe they are further detached from animals than what is real. Take the Gorillas. The Silver back, the head of the tribe. You mess with him, he smacks you down. Till he gets smacked. Is he a bully if he smacks you to keep you in line? Nope. He's the leader.
Now, in school, this isn't necessary anymore. There is no leader. There is no Alpha male. But those instincts remain. Sadly, the other side of this, are the people who (from an evolutionary standpoint) shouldn't have been born due to weak genes. If you locked away the "Neaderthals" what would happen is the same thing, only with less savage people.
You are angry at the world for making you an animal. Not just any animal, an animal that is not capable of becoming the alpha male. I don't think I'm defending the bullies so much as raising the flag for the "nerds" to take some accountability for their own bullying.
Criticising it is hardly an act of hypocrisy
Let me sum this up so I make sure that I completely understand your viewpoint, because I'm not sure if I do. You think that a swift ass kicking is something completely intolerable and socially unacceptable, right? If this is the case, it is a very recent change. It used to be completely acceptable, and expected. It was part of a young lad growing up. Now, we want them to dispute their differences over a nice game of q3a? I don't think that's going to work too well. You also think that (excluding that weird ass Age of Majority stuff) kids should be treated as adults at a younger age, and held accountable (legally so). This I agree with, and it even happens. I knew a kid who got a swift left to the eye, damaged his eye pretty good. They pressed charges against the 16 year old who hit him. He got found guilty of assault. This was almost 10 years ago. So it's a moot point, but no judge is going to pass down judgement about two 13 year olds having a schoolyard scuffle. Regardless if one is bullying or not. The judge remembers kicking some ass, and getting his kicked. It was part of growing up.
What isn't acceptable is the extremities, and this has happened forever. The psycho kids, who can't be controlled. The Columbine-bound kids. The ones who take forks and just stab people in the head (just one example from my youth). These kids are dealt with.
Yeah, the psychos have victims, but that's the way life goes. If someone told you life was fair, they were wrong, if you paid them for it, they're doing a good job. Something else to get you thinking; My aunt got murdered. The guys 5 year old kid watched him stab her almost 20 times. He was in jail for around 7 years.
I don' think you have a clue about the monsters of societies.
Certainly. Even telling some jock to his face that he is inferior is not a justification for the subsequent beating.
But why not? Society used to not think a small-scale ass kicking was a bad thing. I still don't think it's a bad thing, but I went through martial arts training and appreciate a good match. I hope my kids will do the same, not because I want them to beat other kids up, but because discipline and strength helps you in all areas of life.
What you advocate is no different than blaming the victim in a rape.
The common bullying that goes on now is not akin to blaming the victim in a rape. It's more akin to blaming a woman for walking around in a ghetto naked screaming, "I dare you stupid fucks to rape me."
When a kid walks around smug, acting like they are better, it's an invitation to knock them down off their pedestal. A comparative black eye, to the rape example I gave scales in severity.
A black eye is not a big deal. Getting raped is a big deal. Walking around smug and intellectually cocky is not a big deal. Walking around naked and screaming taunts in a ghetto is a big deal.
Understand the difference here? Getting your ass kicked is not a big deal.
As for the ancient majority of 13, what the hell are you talking about? How ancient are you thinking here, because at 13 you were not considered an adult. I'm not sure how old you are, but lets say you are older than 22. Look back to when you were 12. Think about the biggest argument you got into when you were 12. How upset it got you. Now think about your current views and life. Do you really think you'd have that same argument now?
Didn't think so. The difference between a 13 year old a thousand years ago and now, is the 13 year olds who are crying about getting a black eye wouldn't have been born due to survival of the fittest still playing a part in humanity.
You're grasping. You can't pick on someone unless you're higher up on the social scale, and using that power to either physically or verbally humiliate them.
Social scale? What the fuck are you talking about social scale? If a bully is bullying you, it is because you allow them power over you. If you are not strong enough, then be smarter. It's not that hard. Some bullies are smart, very smart, in fact. Outsmart them. If not, survival of the fittest has been lost for ages, and we are now seeing the effects of it. Sorry your genes are weak, boy. It's not my problem.
The fact that you think insulting someone is the same as picking on them indicates that you don't know what the Hell you're talking about.
No, I just believe you can pick on someone and it doesn't have to be some emotionally traumatizing thing. Was your mother Richard Simmons or Oprah?
Believe me, if you've been picked on, you know what it is. It's not a "joking banter of insults".
Sorry, but I've been attacked unprovoked, provoked, picked on, had a broken nose, broken ribs, and I'm still here smiling on and would tell anybody to stand their ground and get picked on but at least stand up for what you believe in. If you don't believe it's right, say so. If not, you are a pussy, so shut the fuck up and go eat some sand.
Stop trying to bring me down to your level. I am not a bully, you are. If it bothers you so much, go talk to someone about it, but at least own up to being an asshole. It's just insulting to your victims when you don't. I'm sorry, I meant "accomplices".
I'm not a bully, I'm a realist. There you go again, trying to exert power over me. "Bring me down to your level", what exactly is my level? The level that blames you for the situations you end up in? I'm not a bully, I'm not picking on you. I'm telling you that you played a part in what happened to you. What I'm not is your fucking therapist. Go cry on someone elses shoulder, because I'm not buying your self-rightous it's-their-fault-and-I'm-a-saint-that-didn't-do-no thing-to-nobody attitude.
You obviously have no clue who I am otherwise you would know exactly how big of an asshole I am, and admit to being. Fucking newbies.
Wait, so the nerd is figuratively walking around school wearing an "I hate jocks" shirt. Now I get it! So, jocks are like, former slaves, and nerds are like, thier oppressors. And, school is like, the jock's turf, so, like, the nerd is basically taking it right to them, what with this shirt, and how the jocks are oppressed. (laughs to self) Dude, you're not allowed to beat people up because you think they don't like you. A. It's wrong, and sometimes illegal. B. They probably don't like you because you beat them up. C. No one, ever deserves to get beat up for minding their own business.
I've watched tons of bullying, been the victim of it, and I can say with much certainty that the vast majority involves the nerd doing something to provoke the bully. There is a reason why that specific person is getting singled out.
No, it's not. It's chance. It's fate. It's an "act of God". The plane didn't crash because you got on it! The bus didn't swerve because you were standing there! YOU. ARE. AN IDIOT.
Does it suit you well to believe you are not responsible for anything bad that happens to you? You are the worst type of person. Anything bad that happens to you, caused by another person, is that persons fault. Anything bad that happens to you, caused by a series of events, is an "act of God".
One more moronic post like that, and you're banished from Slashdot. Seriously. Time for you to shut up for a little while.
Wow, this is fantastic. You have such an extreme case of supremacy, thinking that only your viewpoints are correct without any attempt at insight as to why it happens. You don't want to question your own involvement because you would find that you are fallible, and on top of that, not as smart as you want to believe you are. So, banish me from Slashdot. Really, I'd love to see that, Mr. I'm-so-damned-important. It's no wonder you got your ass beat, could you give me the names of the people that did it so I could send them each some money and a thank you card?
You're publishing [your morals] for everyone to judge.
Because I say that people who think they are better than other people, and get their ass kicked for their smugness, are playing an active role in what happened? How does that speak of my morality? It speaks more of your close-minded nature, which you have exhibited most thoroughly. Do you always think you know more about a person you don't know? If so, thanks, I can use you as a prime example of the type of person most likely to get bullied.
Mere youth should not be an excuse for immoral or illegal behaivor. Mere youth should not be an excuse for being a barbaric animal. This willingess to excuse monsters until they are ready for the adult criminal justice system only encourages more monsters.
Sorry, but a little scuffle between kids is not immoral or illegal. Most of these kids that get bullied do something to provoke the bully. I'm not saying all, but most. You just don't understand that from where the bullies point of view, you are a smug little asswhipe that should be taught a lesson of humility.
I've watched both sides through my days in school, and every time someone tried to bring me in the middle (either to bully me or attempt to get me to bully someone) I put a stop to it very quickly. It's much more fun to watch the two sides. The stereotypical unpopular nerd who will claim "I did nothing to start it!", while slipping 'Fuck you jarhead' out the corner of his mouth, is an active participant in most of the bullying.
But you don't like to acknowledge that because you were one of those kids. You tried to provoke me right off, and it failed, mostly because it was a completely and totally idiotic attempt. If you did that to someone in school, with a bully temperment, you would have gotten your ass kicked. Then you would blame them. You would be wrong, because you played a large part in it.
The solution to "high school" is to dispense with it and allow "children" to begin their aprenticeships as in the past. This would be of considerable benefit to those that require post graduate training or schooling.
This I actually do agree with. I think that school should be cut back to 16, and you should have to test into specialized high schools at 12 to determine the focus of your education. Whether it be more science or physically based (Tangible vs. Untangible education, so to speak)
Oh, sure, I insulted at least one person in high school. We all know that's much, much different from picking on them, though. I never, ever did that. So, call "bullshit" all you want, but you're wrong.
Sorry, then define what picking on is. Picking on pretty much means provoking, in some sense. Insulting someone is provoking them, even if it's friendly, and provoking a joking banter of insults to fly.
Innocent of what, asshole? Of rape?? Of course she was, she didn't rape anybody! Are you saying that she's partly to blame for her own rape?? If that was true, it would be sex, not rape. Again: idiot.
She is not innocent to what happened to her. If I wore a shirt that said, "I hate Niggers" and paraded around Harlem, no one would raise an eye as to the Irish guy who gets the shit kicked out of him.
Great advice. You make me laugh. Let's all hope that the mail-order vasectomy kit arrives before the stork.
The advice is that it will change your philosophy that getting a bloody nose and a black eye is some penultimate evil thing in the world. You heal; so fucking what, you cried and lost some respect, deal.
Wait, it's thoughts that hurt people now? What I'm thinking can hurt people? As much as physical violence? Maybe the actions of nerds hurt jocks ("nerds" vs. "jocks" is oversimplifying, but I use the terms for brevity), but their thoughts are their own, and given the antisocial nature of nerds, tend to remain their own. But just in case, are you saying that jocks beat up nerds because they really want to be the nerds' friends, but are afraid of rejection? Think about that for a second. It's idiocy.
Thoughts lead to actions, even subconsciously, if you can't understand and see that in the world, than you are more blind than you will ever understand. You will get your ass kicked. You think that only things you deliberately do have consequences.
Everything that happens to you is a consequence to an action that you took part in, either consciously or subconsciously. If you do not acknowledge or accept this, it does not change the truth. If you die by getting hit by a bus tomorrow, it is the consequence of you walking at that exact moment. If you take a path that is risky, take the responsibility of your choice.
A woman came across a rattlesnake who was freezing to death and nurtured it back to health. When it was finally healthy, the snake turned and bit the woman. As she lay dying, she asks, "Why? After I helped you..." the snake responds, "You knew I was a snake."
I never picked on a single person. Ever. At huge risk to my (admittedly small amount of) popularity, I gave everyone the benefit of the doubt.
I'd have to call bullshit on this. Not a person exists that doesn't insult someone, either to their face or behind their back (I believe if you say something behind their back, it's worse than if you say it to their face) -- if you claim otherwise you are either A) A religious deity, B) A robot, or C) lying.
Bullshit. I was and am a very friendly person and rarely judge a person as dumber than me.
Your entire post is completely hypocritical though. You judge these people to be freaking idiots, without knowing their motivation.
Nonetheless, I STILL got sand shoved down my throat while being pinned down by 3 guys, my head cracked against my friend's on the bus, got hit in the head with a 1000+ page hard cover dictionary which gave me seizures. I WANTED (STUPIDLY in retrospect) them to be my friends. I tried talking with them and joking around with them and they just said I was a fag.
Sorry, it sounds like you are just incredibly stupid here. If someone doesn't like you, you don't follow them around like a little puppy dog hoping their going to be nice to you suddenly. I've seen people like you, following around a group of thugs, trying to be like them only to be abused. Yet they don't give up. I'm just saying that's what I'm getting out of your explanation, not that this is what I think happened. You can clarify if it's not the case.
The problem is NOT with the people getting the shit beat out of them it's with the freakin' idiots who gang up and torture people who are different than them or actually enjoy school and learning.
More hypocracy here. Why are they freakin idiots? For all you know, they are smarter than you.
It's because of "fucktarts" like that who made me despise going to school in the end (until I got to college). Your post really pisses me off when you say someone's thoughts "...transform into a big neon sign saying 'I'm a fucktart, beat me!'..." because it's simply not true. Even the most obnoxious person in the world does not deserve to have seizures caused by head trauma.
If you got head-trauma from getting hit once with a hard cover book, than you probably should make sure you are living in a padded room. I've gotten cracked in the head with a metal bat, have had 3 concussions, and I'm probably not as sharp as I'd be without it, but have never had any issues. I guarantee you that my lightest head injury has been worse than any book.
Maybe your neon sign says, "I'm a pussy that cries if you touch me!"
You're only rationalizing your own total lack of morals. It doesn't matter one damn bit what a person thinks of others. Looking down upon others is no excuse for violent reprisals.
How can you claim that you know me well enough to know my morals and where they stand? You disrespect me more than you add to your argument with your attempt at an attack against me. It does matter one bit what one person thinks about another, because while your thoughts hurt the other person their actions physical hurt you. Why is it that people say emotional pain is worse than physical pain, yet the constant knowledge that some smart-ass smug little nerd is always thinking down upon you without knowing you is perfectly ok?
My issue is that too often geeks and nerds try to always make themselves out to be the victims without understanding that they also play a part in the bullying. I saw it happen when I was a kid, and hear about it now. The kids who don't try to be different, and accept that they are part of humanity rarely have any problems outside of the standard kids teasing each other. Those who walk around thinking they are better often get knocked down off their pedestal. Those kids are also the stupid ones, because they're not smart enough to realize it's their own fault they are getting picked on.
This isn't an analogy to rapists saying, "She was wearing a short skirt, she was asking for it." This is more likened to a woman walking around naked saying, "I'm soooooooo FUCKING HOT and you WILL NEVER have sex with me so HA HA HA I DARE You to do something about!!" then getting pissed off that the guy raped and beat her. Was it right? No. Was she innocent? No.
It takes two to tango, and there is always a reason why the bully picks you. I was 5'3 my Freshman year, and never got bullied because I didn't act like I was smarter, or better than anyone else. Yet other kids who were larger than I was got it all the time, and you could always overhear them saying, "At least I'll amount to something in my life."
Well good luck Seymore Q. Fuqs, you aren't amounting to shit other than a 40 year old scared little kid who is still so convinced that the world doesn't understand you. I'm a nerd, and proud of it. People call me pretentious, but I know that people, no matter how smart or stupid, still have value and aren't better than me. No one is better. People are all equally stupid, and all will equally end up as a pile of dust.
The bullies and the "victims" are just too ignorant to drop their attitudes long enough to realize they're just making asses out of them both.
These are people that are children in name only, and you would excuse their actions and exempt them from even a juvenile standard of assault and battery.
You need to grow up. There is a huge difference between a 12 year old beating you and a 22 year old beating you. Fights happen. People are just such pussies now adays, they can't handle getting a bloody nose. Go watch Fight Club a few times, then go get yourself off your mommas tit.
Oh, yeah? In my school, disabled kids got picked on. Foriegn kids got picked on. Kids that weren't very athletic, or bright, or rich got picked on. Kids with bad skin, or greasy hair, or a birthmark got picked on. Did these things really not happen at your high school, or are you just pretending they didn't?
Everybody gets picked on, but it doesn't make then unpopular. Big difference. I got picked on, I took it in stride. If I got bullied, I wouldn't back down, and often times got in fights over it. I ended up not getting bullied, but still getting picked on.
Are you going to say that you never picked on anyone? Or are you just going to pretend you didn't?
People need to take a little bit of responsibility for their own lives rather than chalking everything up to "well, I'm going to get picked on because everyone else in the world is so much stupider than me."
Amen to that. It seems the kids who get picked on the most are those who think quietly to themselves, "They are all stupider than I!" You can be as quiet as you want, when you walk down the halls your thoughts transform into a big neon sign saying, "I'm a fucktart, beat me!" that hovers mysteriously over your head.
If half the nerds got over themselves long enough to realize that the general population can actually produce a few good friends that don't need to have a matching IQ they wouldn't get picked on half as much.
The discussion grows tedious. We'll just have to disagree.
You disagree with history, and even what Patrick Pearse says. Good for you, sir.
AND I say to my people's masters: Beware, Beware of the thing that is coming, beware of the risen people, Who shall take what ye would not give. Did ye think to conquer the people, Or that Law is stronger than life and than men's desire to be free? We will try it out with you, ye that have harried and held, Ye that have bullied and bribed,....... tyrants, hypocrites, liars!
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My family and I are entitled to as much safety as we can afford. That others drviers cannot afford the same degree of protection isn't my fault, nor is it my problem. Like I said, I'm already a good driver... If other people manage not to crash into me, then there's no safety issue.
:)
:) The only time I will go dodging through traffic is when some asshole refuses to get out of the left hand lane. The thing is, a lot of the racers aren't speeding to get to the destination faster, they're speeding because it's something they enjoy. Sometimes you just let loose, and go. It's usually much more sane to do it at night when there is no traffic out, and I've tapped a car going near 160 at 2 in the morning before, and it's relatively safe for me to do so. I know how to handle a sports car, I can drift very well, I can pull some pretty crazy manuevers to keep myself safe.
You are entitled to as much safety as you can afford, but not with putting other people at risk in the same time. You are just as safe in a Honda Odyssey, right? I'll take your word for it that you are a good driver, and thank you for it, but many people aren't. Hell, I just about got hit walking to work this morning by someone backing out into the sidewalk.
That, my friend, is not a fact. It is an opinion. The difference is that a fact can be supported by some kind of evidence, and an opinion can be spouted in the absence of any evidence.
I suppose I should say, "The fact that most people are bad drivers, precipates most people that own SUVs don't know how to drive well and it compounds into a worse scenario with a large vehicle" -- better?
Take the Import Street Racer crowd as an example. Sure, their cars are smaller, but that doesn't make me feel any safer when they go whizzing by at double the speed limit, or as they dodge in and out of dialy traffic as though there was a prize waiting for them at their destination.
As a racer, I can assure you that if you continue on your path, you are very safe. Much more so than say, trying to cut me off
Bad drivers make other people turn into bad drivers. People who can't merge, have too big of cars (and yes, the H2 is too big. I don't care who you are, you don't need a vehicle that big), that's the root problem of the roads these days.
And yes, the Segway is a dumb idea. It'd be cool for $300 and I'd probably buy one. For $5K, that's half a new Yamaha R1 superbike.
Or ugly kids? Or poor kids? Or kids with birthmarks? How many times to you have to be publicly slammed before you admit to being wrong? Please, defend your "I hate niggers" analogy again. It was so funny the first time you tried!
Yes, lets keep the extremes as the example because that's what happens the most! Are you poor, ugly, have a birthmark? Well, most people have a birthmark, but rarely is it predominant and not able to be covered. Being poor has nothing to do with being bullied, poor kids bully rich kids and rich kids bully poor kids. You say handicapped kids and ugly kids, well, that's the extreme and uncommon example of bullying.
If all you can do is defend your stance on why you got bullied is by listing extreme examples of kids getting picked on, than it just shows exactly why you did get bullied.
Do you even know what fallible means? I think you meant "culpable". Look both words up, and figure out which one fits the argument you are trying to make. Now, normally, you're supposed to know what a word means BEFORE you use it, but I'll give you this one, because I feel bad for retards, and you've already been thouroughly embarrassed. Even if you're too dense to realize it.
It was a typo, I meant to type "infallible", which you obviously do believe thinking that you are so high on a pedestal.
I've met elementary school students that would have a hard time not feeling morally and intellectually superior to a troll such as yourself. I don't feel superior to everybody. Just you.
Thank you for this, proving I win again. If you could only understand what the game is. It's right in front fo your face, and you just don't get it. It's incredibly amusing, how much more are you going to show you are an idiot before understanding what's going on?
Actually, I never got my ass beat. Sure sounds like you did. Why were you such a pussy?
Funny how you sit there and bitch about being bullied then try to claim you never took an ass-beating, then you also claim that you hit a kid with a bike chain causing 14 stitches. Oh, you big strong man. You never got in a real fight, and then hit some kid with a bike chain because you couldn't fight him fairly? Yeah, you prove your case real well. No wonder you aren't popular.
I have lost 2 street fights in my life, and I'm proud. I've won many more. I also have competeted in tournaments. I'm cross-trained in 4 different martial arts. I don't need to hit some kid with a bike chain because I'm too big of a pussy to fight fairly. I stand up for myself before it comes to me snapping and fighting like a little bitch.
Whoah, buddy. We're talking 11-year-olds, not prison inmates. No one "allows" anything when they're a child. There is most certainly a social scale for children. Everyone knows that. Your attitude is the same one that blames children for other kinds of abuse. Is it their fault their parents get divorced? Is it also their fault when they get sexually abused? Sure, kids can make better decisions, and avoid some of it, but it's not their responsibility. It's the bully's, the antagonist, the aggressor. He or she shouldn't be doing what they do. We all agree on that.
Right, when everybody wants to blame the bullies and hold them accountable, but say that the victims don't have a choice and are just children, who don't know better. Nice hypocracy there, is it really that great to not be capable of complex associative logic? If they are a bully, they should be held accountable. If they aren't, just antagonizign the bully, then they are a witless child. I think you should be the next Judge Judy.
No one's crying on your shoulder, pal. Especially not the women in your life. They go somewhere else for compassion, I imagine. Remember, I'm replying to a post YOU made. Get your head out of your ass.
You spent this entire thread pissing and moaning about the unfair treatment you endure(d) by all these mean bullies without realizing that you are a complete and total tool. You make wild threats, "Banishment from slashdot" and expect people to take you seriously? I don't need to do anything to make you look like an idiot, you do it yourself. I've already posted links to this thread so that plenty of people can see exactly how ridiculous you are.
Nor do I ever plan on getting to know you any better. You're not smart, or funny, and on the internet that's all that counts. You "are" words on a web page, nothing more. I mean, really, nothing more.
Aw, but please! I want a whiney, sniveling, kid who can't get off his mommas tit as a friend! Really! The world is so unfair to you, how do you cope? You can say that I'm not smart, nor funny, but it doesn't matter because you don't understand the joke.
Was your girlfriend the one I took home from the bar last night? Probably. She likes gin and rough anal, she told me to tell you that, since you can't seem to pick up on it yourself. Try being more sensitive to her needs.
This is great, you say that I'm an asshole then you go and try to insult my girlfriend? What insults have I delivered upon you, other than you are an over-sensitized, mommas boy, that is a complete pussy who needs a serious ass-whooping to understand that life really isn't fair. Congratulations, you have stooped well below any level that you think I sit at.
My labeling of you isn't so much an insult, as it is a brash way of labeling you. You cry, and moan, and say you gave everyone the benefit of the doubt. You say you never picked on anyone, then go off about my girlfriend being unfaithful? Wow, seriously man, you need to get a grip on your situation. You keep saying I'm an idiot, but why?
My only stance is that you shouldn't treat the "victims" of bullies as clueless children who just happened to be the target of a bully. They did something to become the bullies target, and most of the time it's because they're pretentious. We're talking about 11 year old kids, as you said. The little scuffles endured between 11 year olds isn't a bad thing. Only to complete and total pussies who are better off outside of the gene pool, instead of being the joke of natural selection.
Oh boo-hoo, I'm telling you that you had an active part in your bullying, and the reason why you were bullied is because you are a complete and total tool (just look at this thread, do you have any clue how big of a dork you look like?) and think you are so damn l33t you can "banish" people from slashdot.
You "are" words on a web page, nothing more. I mean, really, nothing more.
Wrong, and it's proven by your attempt to insult my girlfriend. I riled you up, admit it. You don't want to get to know me, and you formed an opinion of me.
With this, I win. You lose, but I'm sure you are used to that by now.
What's wrong with the Hummer H2, and what about it would make the buyer an idiot?
Aside from the fact that SUVs are proven to be unsafe to other drivers on the roads? The fact that most people who drive SUVs don't know how to drive well, especially a vehicle that big. The difference between the H2 and the Hummer is the H2 is a luxury car. It is not made to go off-roading. For that you buy an H1.
H2s aren't that expensive, when it comes to status symbols either. You look much cooler going around in a CLK55, S600, SL600, BMW 7 series, etc. H2s make you look like a total dork. The only girls who will think your H2 is a cool car are those who don't understand Little-dick-syndrome, and that the H2 doesn't really make your dick bigger.
I wouldn't say that the buyer is an idiot, I would say it is a dumbass choice in a vehicle. Unless you use an SUV for sport purposes, I think the person makes a dumbass choice if they buy one. If you are driving around town, get a fucking car and save the other drivers on the road and a few bucks in gas.
As a broadband provider to part of fly-over country, I can attest that things are tight. I just had a fellow who's been overanxious for broadband to come to his town announce yesterday that he's "holding off, paying down a few credit cards, and taking it cautiously with the war coming and all the new taxes they're dumping on us."
I'm paying off everything this year, saving up some money and moving to Japan next year. For now, the plans are only temporary, but if anything particularly nasty happens in the US while I'm away, I don't think I'll be coming back.
A lot of people are upset about the economy, new taxes, US policy, but they don't do much about it other than hold up some anti-war signs and pay the taxes.
Foreign policy has nothing to do with it, but for the record I hope you're not trying to say Hussein is a pacifist and the US is a bully? I mean, come on, it's not even the same situation.
You said "There can only be one truly good reason for violence, and that is violence itself", so now are you going back on that? Saying that if the possibility of violence is there, than it is ok? It's an analogy here, and an extrapolation of your view.
I don't even think kids are so violent, They just want to create their little social structures as the article originally stated and violence is one of the tools used to that end, in my case it was the only one I responded to, and unfortunately for them, that response was negative. When it became clear it wasn't going to work they gave up.
No, they aren't so violent. Most of the kids who get bullied are provoking the bullies, and it isn't so bad. Then they go and cry like a bitch with a skinned knee. Oh, it's so unfair! Look what happened to me, without stopping to think that they were antagonizing the bully to do it. People like that are stupid, and yes, they deserve what they get if they can't figure it out. Just like if I were to walk around Harlem with a shirt saying, "I hate niggers." I'd deserve the ass-beating handed down to me.
Could this possibly be because people keep picking on them? Try walking around your office shoving people into broom closets and see what your coworkers think of you. I guarantee that people will start thinking you're none too bright. I don't understand how so many people on here are saying that people deserve to be picked on because of their thoughts. I'm pretty sure that "but I didn't like the way he thought about me!" would be a valid defense for someone in an assault trial, and I don't think it's fair to blame the victim for "thinking quietly to himself".
I have to say the nerd starts it. The bully will walk around looking for someone, sure. The nerd is the first to let his thoughts seep into his actions, and do something which "justifies" bullying.
If you don't understand that what you think affects what you do, I would like to play poker with you. With very large stakes. What's really sad about all of this is that only a few select people actually understood the meaning of what I wrote, I didn't think I'd actually have to append, "thinking quiety to themselves, and letting it pour out in their actions"
Everyone has an answer: hide, run away, take the beating, fight, etc. NOTHING works when you're dealing with people who don't give a shit about other people. Take the beating, they'll beat you up the same way every day (no fucking thanks), fight back, you might hurt one of em (which I did at times).
There is a reason why it happened to you. There is something you did that made them pick you over another target. Don't try to pretend you didn't. As for taking the beating, they'll beat you the same way every day. You are so incredibly wrong. Bullies bully because they have power over you. If you show them that you really don't care about getting smacked around, they lose all power. It's not hard logic there, and bullies will get no respect by beating up a willing target. You'd be amazed at how much of all this goes around respect.
10 years old or not, your parents should have taught you the lessons you needed to know to figure out how to deal with bullies by then. Kids whine about getting bullied all the time, there is a reason why they get bullied. Either you put a stop to it, or you keep whining. In the words of Sean Connery, "Losers always whine about their best, while the winners go home and fuck the prom queen."
Isn't it human nature to try and make friends? When I started a new class, I just did the same old BS-ing like I did with "normal" people; however, these guys morphed into fiends when they were in groups. Actually, when I was in the situation where I had to deal with them one-on-one, they were nice guys. It was a gang mentality back in 5th grade. I didn't do anything but just be a kid. When I went to a different school in 6th grade I had no problems. I don't know why you have a quest to turn this around on me. You have the attitude that a burglar victim should be shunned for being weak and the burglar set free because he's superior due to genetics. I think your thought processes have gone a little to the wacko side. I had no part in being beaten up regardless of what has happened to you in your past. In other situations my smart mouth defeated me years later on, yes, but not during the worst of it. I don't buy your argument that I asked for it for one second.
I'm not turning it around on anybody. I'm saying that without a doubt, you did something for them to target you. If you try to befriend people who are mean, you don't get pissed off when they are mean to you, you suck it up. You go, "Damn, better luck next time." You said you kept talking to them, one on one? Well, there ya go. You know when they get in a group, they all start bashing you.
I'm not sure how you cannot understand your involvement. I'm not sure how you can not understand the difference between involvement and victim. You can be involved, and a victim, of something by being careless and stupid. It doesn't make it right, but it makes you look stupid. If a person lives in a bad neighborhood, and puts a big screen TV in front of an open window with a dolly right in front of it, it doesn't mean the burglary was right. It means that the person is fucking dumb.
You get mobbed by a gang of 5th graders, and you were (stupidly) trying to be nice to them while you knew, when they were together, they didn't like you. You don't see your involvement here?
So you're saying that if I'm surrounded by 6 or 7 guys and they're trying to beat me up that I shouldn't try to fight them off? Now who's the pussy? I DID NOT go looking for these guys. I generally tried to slip away without being seen because I was freakin' scared out of my mind after shitting sand for a week. God, you have to be one messed up guy to think that someone actually WANTED to be treated that way.
No, you shouldn't try to fight them off. You shouldn't try to run either. Haven't you ever heard of taking an ass-whooping? I've taken an ass-whooping before, I didn't raise a fist. I got beat for a few minutes, and it was over. I came out with a few bruises, and was generally ok. What's the big deal with that? You try to fight, you make it worse. You run away, you make it worse. It's no fun beating a person who wont fight back but will take it. I'd be pretty pissed off if my parents never taught me that lesson.
I DID NOT go looking for these guys. I generally tried to slip away without being seen because I was freakin' scared out of my mind after shitting sand for a week. God, you have to be one messed up guy to think that someone actually WANTED to be treated that way.
But you said you were friendly with them one-on-one? You did deal with them. If you had a history of altercations, why didn't you politely ask the teacher to avoid being paired up because of differences you weren't sure how to overcome?
Oh, shit, that would mean you would have to actually take control of a situation. Apparently, from this thread, you only like being the victim so you don't have to say anything is your fault. Here's a newflash, kid, everything that happens to you is your fault. Somethings you can help, somethings you can't, but everything that happens to you is a direct result of the choices you make. Don't like it, kill yourself, and make the choice that ends them all.
I never said anybody wanted to be treated that way, all I said is that people are treated that way. A lot of times they put up with it because that's the easiest choice to make. Here's a good way to improve your life, learn that everything that happens to you is your fault. Oh shit, some guy is going to mug me! Your fault. You walked down that street. That was your choice. It's his choice to mug you. It's your choice to walk down the street and get mugged. In hindsight, nobody makes the choices that lead to shit like this. They still make them.
Smart people learn from hind-sight, and learn the lesson before major damage is done. Those who don't, get progressively more fucked up from it. Apparently it took your seizures to learn, "Hey, don't be friendly in class to people who beat me up."
Dude, I did not pre-judge them as they did me. I judged them after I tried my best to a) befriend them b) avoid them c) beat the shit out of them. Nothing worked against a group of 6 or 7 guys.
You interacted with them first. Why? Why did you try to befriend someone who was mean? Then you try to beat the shit out of them. Smart. 6 or 7 guys, and you try to fight them. By yourself, or did you decide to get equally stupid people to do it too?
Are you the kind of person who says that a woman deserved it if she was raped? There's a parallel between that and what I was describing. I definitely don't know what it's like to be raped; however, I know that no woman is "asking" for it. Furthermore, I never asked for it. I believed from an early age that a person's space and body are not to be invaded. That is common human decency. Unless you are physically attacked, you have NO reason to aggressively touch or harm another person. Period.
That woman would deserve it if she prances around naked in the ghetto screaming profanities at people. Everybody has a hand in their own circumstances. End of story. Your social reclusion, attempt to be cool, mental pedestal, whichever. If you segregate yourself from the bullies in a way that allows them power of you, you become a mark. I figured this out in 8th grade, and got to watch kids fail to figure it out for years after. This was after scrapping and fighting with every bully I came in contact with. Want to hear about a broken nose, ribs, dislocated shoulder, metal bat to the head? I guarantee you I've been attacked by worse than you can imagine, but I stood my ground. I stood for what I believed in. I've had people try to stab me, shoot me, but I still had a part in it.
When I was in elementary school, the fights were little scuffles, didn't matter at all. When I was in junior high, that's where every so often something got out of hand. That's where bullying should stop. After that age if you haven't figured out how to supress a bully, than you are not smart enough to not get hurt. Comparing rape to getting bullied is stupid, end of story. I already commented on how it doesn't work.
And apparently if you got your ass beat so many times, it isn't common human decency. And I don't buy it, and I kicked one guys ass in my entire life that was physical unprovoked. He deserved it, he did something _very_ wrong to me. To this day he is probably still spooked by me, because I didn't hurt him very bad, just enough to get the message, then I told him I was going to kill him. Not now, but when he least expected it. When I could get away with it, when everybody but him and I forgot about what happened between us.
That's my warfare. The physical aspect of it was so minor, it is barely worth mentioning. He provoked me first. If you provoke someone capable and willing to do violence, you will receive violence upon you.
But, maybe you have a point. The doctor who treated me in the hospital told me that it wasn't the blow to the back of my 11 year old head that caused involuntary seizures, it was because I was a pussy!!! I forgot about that.
I, too, have taken MANY blows to the head prior and subsequent to the dictionary; however, the blow was done with enough force and at the correct spot to cause me problems I never asked for. To suggest otherwise is an insult.
All I'm saying is you come from physically weaker genes. 500 years ago, evolution still playing it's part in humanity, your genes would have been weeded off. So would mine. I have horrible eyesight, and was born with birth defects that were corrected by modern day surgical techniques. Yay for modern medicine getting rid of evolution. It has it's plusses and it has it's minuses. Unfortunately the thing that hasn't gone away is instinctual bullying for Alpha male status, but the gene pool isn't strong enough for all the kids to take it. Both psychologically and physically, they are getting weaker, smaller, more fragile. Look at all the psychobabble bullshit that is polluting the mentality of todays society. Drugs, drugs, drugs! That's the solution. You were traumatized by a bully? Sue! You aren't accountable, it's everyone elses problem! You have no hand in your own demise.
This shit is dispicable, and we're taking all the positive effects of evolution out of the question and leaving all the negative ones in. I'm curious if over the long term we end up more diverse, or if we all turn into lawyers.
There can only be one truly good reason for violence, and that is violence itself, that's not subjective, it's obvious when you're physically threatened, if someone attempts to put you in a headlock and you snap their arm like a twig, it doesn't matter what their original moralist social argument was for attempting to beat on you, they got what they deserved, end of story.
Well wrong. It's perfectly socially acceptable in the US. Just look at Iraq and Mr. Bush. You wonder why kids are so violent these days, it's what the older generation left behind.
Nothing has changed. There is no trauma, only weaker people now.
It simply amazes me how people come out of the woodworks to defend these Neaderthals. These people should not be seen in polite society. They should be locked away in special schools where they can't bother other people.
I have read almost the exact same argument as defense of segregated schools between white and black people. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's even related, just weird.
You don't even try to understand them. You don't understand that this is not about them being some savage monsters that you can't deal with. If they have power over you, it is because you let them. End of story. No further justification is going to change that fact.
The behavior resident in schools is identical to what happens and is accepted in the animal world known as the "Alpha Male". Humans just like to believe they are further detached from animals than what is real. Take the Gorillas. The Silver back, the head of the tribe. You mess with him, he smacks you down. Till he gets smacked. Is he a bully if he smacks you to keep you in line? Nope. He's the leader.
Now, in school, this isn't necessary anymore. There is no leader. There is no Alpha male. But those instincts remain. Sadly, the other side of this, are the people who (from an evolutionary standpoint) shouldn't have been born due to weak genes. If you locked away the "Neaderthals" what would happen is the same thing, only with less savage people.
You are angry at the world for making you an animal. Not just any animal, an animal that is not capable of becoming the alpha male. I don't think I'm defending the bullies so much as raising the flag for the "nerds" to take some accountability for their own bullying.
Criticising it is hardly an act of hypocrisy
Let me sum this up so I make sure that I completely understand your viewpoint, because I'm not sure if I do. You think that a swift ass kicking is something completely intolerable and socially unacceptable, right? If this is the case, it is a very recent change. It used to be completely acceptable, and expected. It was part of a young lad growing up. Now, we want them to dispute their differences over a nice game of q3a? I don't think that's going to work too well. You also think that (excluding that weird ass Age of Majority stuff) kids should be treated as adults at a younger age, and held accountable (legally so). This I agree with, and it even happens. I knew a kid who got a swift left to the eye, damaged his eye pretty good. They pressed charges against the 16 year old who hit him. He got found guilty of assault. This was almost 10 years ago. So it's a moot point, but no judge is going to pass down judgement about two 13 year olds having a schoolyard scuffle. Regardless if one is bullying or not. The judge remembers kicking some ass, and getting his kicked. It was part of growing up.
What isn't acceptable is the extremities, and this has happened forever. The psycho kids, who can't be controlled. The Columbine-bound kids. The ones who take forks and just stab people in the head (just one example from my youth). These kids are dealt with.
Yeah, the psychos have victims, but that's the way life goes. If someone told you life was fair, they were wrong, if you paid them for it, they're doing a good job. Something else to get you thinking; My aunt got murdered. The guys 5 year old kid watched him stab her almost 20 times. He was in jail for around 7 years.
I don' think you have a clue about the monsters of societies.
Based on your response, I'd say it was a great success
:)
Not really, you should just read my other threads. I posted the last one that had entertainment in my journal.
Certainly. Even telling some jock to his face that he is inferior is not a justification for the subsequent beating.
But why not? Society used to not think a small-scale ass kicking was a bad thing. I still don't think it's a bad thing, but I went through martial arts training and appreciate a good match. I hope my kids will do the same, not because I want them to beat other kids up, but because discipline and strength helps you in all areas of life.
What you advocate is no different than blaming the victim in a rape.
The common bullying that goes on now is not akin to blaming the victim in a rape. It's more akin to blaming a woman for walking around in a ghetto naked screaming, "I dare you stupid fucks to rape me."
When a kid walks around smug, acting like they are better, it's an invitation to knock them down off their pedestal. A comparative black eye, to the rape example I gave scales in severity.
A black eye is not a big deal. Getting raped is a big deal. Walking around smug and intellectually cocky is not a big deal. Walking around naked and screaming taunts in a ghetto is a big deal.
Understand the difference here? Getting your ass kicked is not a big deal.
As for the ancient majority of 13, what the hell are you talking about? How ancient are you thinking here, because at 13 you were not considered an adult. I'm not sure how old you are, but lets say you are older than 22. Look back to when you were 12. Think about the biggest argument you got into when you were 12. How upset it got you. Now think about your current views and life. Do you really think you'd have that same argument now?
Didn't think so. The difference between a 13 year old a thousand years ago and now, is the 13 year olds who are crying about getting a black eye wouldn't have been born due to survival of the fittest still playing a part in humanity.
You're grasping. You can't pick on someone unless you're higher up on the social scale, and using that power to either physically or verbally humiliate them.
o thing-to-nobody attitude.
Social scale? What the fuck are you talking about social scale? If a bully is bullying you, it is because you allow them power over you. If you are not strong enough, then be smarter. It's not that hard. Some bullies are smart, very smart, in fact. Outsmart them. If not, survival of the fittest has been lost for ages, and we are now seeing the effects of it. Sorry your genes are weak, boy. It's not my problem.
The fact that you think insulting someone is the same as picking on them indicates that you don't know what the Hell you're talking about.
No, I just believe you can pick on someone and it doesn't have to be some emotionally traumatizing thing. Was your mother Richard Simmons or Oprah?
Believe me, if you've been picked on, you know what it is. It's not a "joking banter of insults".
Sorry, but I've been attacked unprovoked, provoked, picked on, had a broken nose, broken ribs, and I'm still here smiling on and would tell anybody to stand their ground and get picked on but at least stand up for what you believe in. If you don't believe it's right, say so. If not, you are a pussy, so shut the fuck up and go eat some sand.
Stop trying to bring me down to your level. I am not a bully, you are. If it bothers you so much, go talk to someone about it, but at least own up to being an asshole. It's just insulting to your victims when you don't. I'm sorry, I meant "accomplices".
I'm not a bully, I'm a realist. There you go again, trying to exert power over me. "Bring me down to your level", what exactly is my level? The level that blames you for the situations you end up in? I'm not a bully, I'm not picking on you. I'm telling you that you played a part in what happened to you. What I'm not is your fucking therapist. Go cry on someone elses shoulder, because I'm not buying your self-rightous it's-their-fault-and-I'm-a-saint-that-didn't-do-n
You obviously have no clue who I am otherwise you would know exactly how big of an asshole I am, and admit to being. Fucking newbies.
Wait, so the nerd is figuratively walking around school wearing an "I hate jocks" shirt. Now I get it! So, jocks are like, former slaves, and nerds are like, thier oppressors. And, school is like, the jock's turf, so, like, the nerd is basically taking it right to them, what with this shirt, and how the jocks are oppressed. (laughs to self) Dude, you're not allowed to beat people up because you think they don't like you. A. It's wrong, and sometimes illegal. B. They probably don't like you because you beat them up. C. No one, ever deserves to get beat up for minding their own business.
I've watched tons of bullying, been the victim of it, and I can say with much certainty that the vast majority involves the nerd doing something to provoke the bully. There is a reason why that specific person is getting singled out.
No, it's not. It's chance. It's fate. It's an "act of God". The plane didn't crash because you got on it! The bus didn't swerve because you were standing there! YOU. ARE. AN IDIOT.
Does it suit you well to believe you are not responsible for anything bad that happens to you? You are the worst type of person. Anything bad that happens to you, caused by another person, is that persons fault. Anything bad that happens to you, caused by a series of events, is an "act of God".
One more moronic post like that, and you're banished from Slashdot. Seriously. Time for you to shut up for a little while.
Wow, this is fantastic. You have such an extreme case of supremacy, thinking that only your viewpoints are correct without any attempt at insight as to why it happens. You don't want to question your own involvement because you would find that you are fallible, and on top of that, not as smart as you want to believe you are. So, banish me from Slashdot. Really, I'd love to see that, Mr. I'm-so-damned-important. It's no wonder you got your ass beat, could you give me the names of the people that did it so I could send them each some money and a thank you card?
You're publishing [your morals] for everyone to judge.
Because I say that people who think they are better than other people, and get their ass kicked for their smugness, are playing an active role in what happened? How does that speak of my morality? It speaks more of your close-minded nature, which you have exhibited most thoroughly. Do you always think you know more about a person you don't know? If so, thanks, I can use you as a prime example of the type of person most likely to get bullied.
Mere youth should not be an excuse for immoral or illegal behaivor. Mere youth should not be an excuse for being a barbaric animal. This willingess to excuse monsters until they are ready for the adult criminal justice system only encourages more monsters.
Sorry, but a little scuffle between kids is not immoral or illegal. Most of these kids that get bullied do something to provoke the bully. I'm not saying all, but most. You just don't understand that from where the bullies point of view, you are a smug little asswhipe that should be taught a lesson of humility.
I've watched both sides through my days in school, and every time someone tried to bring me in the middle (either to bully me or attempt to get me to bully someone) I put a stop to it very quickly. It's much more fun to watch the two sides. The stereotypical unpopular nerd who will claim "I did nothing to start it!", while slipping 'Fuck you jarhead' out the corner of his mouth, is an active participant in most of the bullying.
But you don't like to acknowledge that because you were one of those kids. You tried to provoke me right off, and it failed, mostly because it was a completely and totally idiotic attempt. If you did that to someone in school, with a bully temperment, you would have gotten your ass kicked. Then you would blame them. You would be wrong, because you played a large part in it.
The solution to "high school" is to dispense with it and allow "children" to begin their aprenticeships as in the past. This would be of considerable benefit to those that require post graduate training or schooling.
This I actually do agree with. I think that school should be cut back to 16, and you should have to test into specialized high schools at 12 to determine the focus of your education. Whether it be more science or physically based (Tangible vs. Untangible education, so to speak)
Oh, sure, I insulted at least one person in high school. We all know that's much, much different from picking on them, though. I never, ever did that. So, call "bullshit" all you want, but you're wrong.
Sorry, then define what picking on is. Picking on pretty much means provoking, in some sense. Insulting someone is provoking them, even if it's friendly, and provoking a joking banter of insults to fly.
Does it serve you well to decide what words mean?
Innocent of what, asshole? Of rape?? Of course she was, she didn't rape anybody! Are you saying that she's partly to blame for her own rape?? If that was true, it would be sex, not rape. Again: idiot.
She is not innocent to what happened to her. If I wore a shirt that said, "I hate Niggers" and paraded around Harlem, no one would raise an eye as to the Irish guy who gets the shit kicked out of him.
Great advice. You make me laugh. Let's all hope that the mail-order vasectomy kit arrives before the stork.
The advice is that it will change your philosophy that getting a bloody nose and a black eye is some penultimate evil thing in the world. You heal; so fucking what, you cried and lost some respect, deal.
Wait, it's thoughts that hurt people now? What I'm thinking can hurt people? As much as physical violence? Maybe the actions of nerds hurt jocks ("nerds" vs. "jocks" is oversimplifying, but I use the terms for brevity), but their thoughts are their own, and given the antisocial nature of nerds, tend to remain their own. But just in case, are you saying that jocks beat up nerds because they really want to be the nerds' friends, but are afraid of rejection? Think about that for a second. It's idiocy.
Thoughts lead to actions, even subconsciously, if you can't understand and see that in the world, than you are more blind than you will ever understand. You will get your ass kicked. You think that only things you deliberately do have consequences.
Everything that happens to you is a consequence to an action that you took part in, either consciously or subconsciously. If you do not acknowledge or accept this, it does not change the truth. If you die by getting hit by a bus tomorrow, it is the consequence of you walking at that exact moment. If you take a path that is risky, take the responsibility of your choice.
A woman came across a rattlesnake who was freezing to death and nurtured it back to health. When it was finally healthy, the snake turned and bit the woman. As she lay dying, she asks, "Why? After I helped you..." the snake responds, "You knew I was a snake."
I never picked on a single person. Ever. At huge risk to my (admittedly small amount of) popularity, I gave everyone the benefit of the doubt.
I'd have to call bullshit on this. Not a person exists that doesn't insult someone, either to their face or behind their back (I believe if you say something behind their back, it's worse than if you say it to their face) -- if you claim otherwise you are either A) A religious deity, B) A robot, or C) lying.
Bullshit. I was and am a very friendly person and rarely judge a person as dumber than me.
Your entire post is completely hypocritical though. You judge these people to be freaking idiots, without knowing their motivation.
Nonetheless, I STILL got sand shoved down my throat while being pinned down by 3 guys, my head cracked against my friend's on the bus, got hit in the head with a 1000+ page hard cover dictionary which gave me seizures. I WANTED (STUPIDLY in retrospect) them to be my friends. I tried talking with them and joking around with them and they just said I was a fag.
Sorry, it sounds like you are just incredibly stupid here. If someone doesn't like you, you don't follow them around like a little puppy dog hoping their going to be nice to you suddenly. I've seen people like you, following around a group of thugs, trying to be like them only to be abused. Yet they don't give up. I'm just saying that's what I'm getting out of your explanation, not that this is what I think happened. You can clarify if it's not the case.
The problem is NOT with the people getting the shit beat out of them it's with the freakin' idiots who gang up and torture people who are different than them or actually enjoy school and learning.
More hypocracy here. Why are they freakin idiots? For all you know, they are smarter than you.
It's because of "fucktarts" like that who made me despise going to school in the end (until I got to college). Your post really pisses me off when you say someone's thoughts "...transform into a big neon sign saying 'I'm a fucktart, beat me!'..." because it's simply not true. Even the most obnoxious person in the world does not deserve to have seizures caused by head trauma.
If you got head-trauma from getting hit once with a hard cover book, than you probably should make sure you are living in a padded room. I've gotten cracked in the head with a metal bat, have had 3 concussions, and I'm probably not as sharp as I'd be without it, but have never had any issues. I guarantee you that my lightest head injury has been worse than any book.
Maybe your neon sign says, "I'm a pussy that cries if you touch me!"
You're only rationalizing your own total lack of morals. It doesn't matter one damn bit what a person thinks of others. Looking down upon others is no excuse for violent reprisals.
How can you claim that you know me well enough to know my morals and where they stand? You disrespect me more than you add to your argument with your attempt at an attack against me. It does matter one bit what one person thinks about another, because while your thoughts hurt the other person their actions physical hurt you. Why is it that people say emotional pain is worse than physical pain, yet the constant knowledge that some smart-ass smug little nerd is always thinking down upon you without knowing you is perfectly ok?
My issue is that too often geeks and nerds try to always make themselves out to be the victims without understanding that they also play a part in the bullying. I saw it happen when I was a kid, and hear about it now. The kids who don't try to be different, and accept that they are part of humanity rarely have any problems outside of the standard kids teasing each other. Those who walk around thinking they are better often get knocked down off their pedestal. Those kids are also the stupid ones, because they're not smart enough to realize it's their own fault they are getting picked on.
This isn't an analogy to rapists saying, "She was wearing a short skirt, she was asking for it." This is more likened to a woman walking around naked saying, "I'm soooooooo FUCKING HOT and you WILL NEVER have sex with me so HA HA HA I DARE You to do something about!!" then getting pissed off that the guy raped and beat her. Was it right? No. Was she innocent? No.
It takes two to tango, and there is always a reason why the bully picks you. I was 5'3 my Freshman year, and never got bullied because I didn't act like I was smarter, or better than anyone else. Yet other kids who were larger than I was got it all the time, and you could always overhear them saying, "At least I'll amount to something in my life."
Well good luck Seymore Q. Fuqs, you aren't amounting to shit other than a 40 year old scared little kid who is still so convinced that the world doesn't understand you. I'm a nerd, and proud of it. People call me pretentious, but I know that people, no matter how smart or stupid, still have value and aren't better than me. No one is better. People are all equally stupid, and all will equally end up as a pile of dust.
The bullies and the "victims" are just too ignorant to drop their attitudes long enough to realize they're just making asses out of them both.
These are people that are children in name only, and you would excuse their actions and exempt them from even a juvenile standard of assault and battery.
You need to grow up. There is a huge difference between a 12 year old beating you and a 22 year old beating you. Fights happen. People are just such pussies now adays, they can't handle getting a bloody nose. Go watch Fight Club a few times, then go get yourself off your mommas tit.
Oh, yeah? In my school, disabled kids got picked on. Foriegn kids got picked on. Kids that weren't very athletic, or bright, or rich got picked on. Kids with bad skin, or greasy hair, or a birthmark got picked on. Did these things really not happen at your high school, or are you just pretending they didn't?
Everybody gets picked on, but it doesn't make then unpopular. Big difference. I got picked on, I took it in stride. If I got bullied, I wouldn't back down, and often times got in fights over it. I ended up not getting bullied, but still getting picked on.
Are you going to say that you never picked on anyone? Or are you just going to pretend you didn't?
People need to take a little bit of responsibility for their own lives rather than chalking everything up to "well, I'm going to get picked on because everyone else in the world is so much stupider than me."
Amen to that. It seems the kids who get picked on the most are those who think quietly to themselves, "They are all stupider than I!" You can be as quiet as you want, when you walk down the halls your thoughts transform into a big neon sign saying, "I'm a fucktart, beat me!" that hovers mysteriously over your head.
If half the nerds got over themselves long enough to realize that the general population can actually produce a few good friends that don't need to have a matching IQ they wouldn't get picked on half as much.
You disagree with history, and even what Patrick Pearse says. Good for you, sir.