Right, because expected value calculations play no part in game theory. It's not like they are one of the most fundamental foundations of the theory or anything. How silly of me.
So, you are saying that corporations that commit crimes, up to and including murder, should get away with a slap on the wrist because government is what? Worse than murder?
Why present a false dichotomy? Are you so intellectually bankrupt and slavishly devoted to your dogma of greed-driven, unrestricted capitalism that you can't think up any possible alternatives?
Or maybe you just think the status quo is just peachy?
Simple games theory. If the expected payoff of fraud is greater than the penalty, fraud is inevitable. Here's a thought: instead of fines, revoke the corporate charter for serious crimes. Only in America can people still get the death penalty while corporations can't.
There is no way the electromagnetic force can account for observed gravitational lensing. This is why I can't talk with people like you, you simply refuse to accept the obvious, verified, peer reviewed evidence. You have no counter theory that predicts observations. Yet you persist in your beliefs despite all evidence because you want to believe things work a certain way.
Further discussion would be a pointless waste of both our time.
Of course, photons and other neutral PARTICLES don't "feel" the electric fields, but any charged particle, atom, asteroid, planet, star, galaxy etc. can and would thus be influenced by the electric force. Therefore, this force CANNOT be ignored and the mechanics and motion of even the larger massive bodies are not SOLELY determined by the force of gravity. That I can accept as being in the realm of the possible. But I thought modern cosmological models did account for electro magnetism? And dark matter has been observed. In a case where two galaxies collided, the baryonic matter interacted through other means (like electromagnetism) and the two galaxies merged. But the dark matter didn't interact, and kept on going, creating a gravitational lens with no observable baryonic source of mass, exactly as the theory predicted.
I just looked it up and you are correct. Here's what I found:
"There is no way of taking a man and moving him about in space, as ordinary people understand space, that will result in our changing his sides. Whatever you do, his right is still his right, his left his left. You can do that with a perfectly thin and flat thing, of course. If you were to cut a figure out of paper, any figure with a right and left side, you could change its sides simply by lifting it up and turning it over. But with a solid it is different. Mathematical theorists tell us that the only way in which the right and left sides of a solid body can be changed is by taking that body clean out of space as we know it,--taking it out of ordinary existence, that is, and turning it somewhere outside space. This is a little abstruse, no doubt, but any one with any knowledge of mathematical theory will assure the reader of its truth. To put the thing in technical language, the curious inversion of Plattner's right and left sides is proof that he has moved out of our space into what is called the Fourth Dimension, and that he has returned again to our world." The Plattner Story
That was written in 1896, putting it 12 years after Flatland which I think was the first treatment of the theme of the consequences of differing numbers of dimensions. Nothing new under the sun, eh?
That's the one I was thinking of! I thought it was either Asimov or Bradbury but I couldn't remember which. I also read the Rudy Rucker novel that contains a similar bit, but I knew that wasn't the first treatment of the theme.
Wow to HG Wells if he did it first (anyone know the name of the story?), though I would consider the general themes of 'consequences of different numbers of dimensions' as having been laid out in Flatland before that.
going off one side would bring you back on the other side reflected. There would be some pretty weird consequences if our universe were like that. Wasn't there at least one short sci fi story about this? Someone gets rotated in the fourth dimension and comes back with their heart on the other side and severe gastrointestinal problems because all their molecules have different chirality.
are you fucking stupid? he did the right thing. WTF? I think you misread or misunderstood what I said, or you didn't read the post I was replying to, or you replied to the wrong post.
To quote my own post, the one you replied to, "what was this guy thinking, doing the right thing in spite of the risks?"
Man, you know, now that I know that "people will always be people," I guess I can just dismiss the whole human rights movement, women's suffrage, equal rights, labor activism, and every other form of social progress as mere illusions.
Cynical assholes will always be losers. How's that bitterness treating you? Turned into cancer or heart disease yet? Don't worry, it will. Bitter and petty individuals rarely live long.
Maybe the real message here is not that people will never change. Maybe the message is that you are too small minded to change or grow, and you're bitter towards the majority of us who can and do.
I would think the whole reference to a kick in the balls curing a headache would make it obvious that I AM being silly. Acupuncture does not do what it claims to and their aren't any magical energy fields in the body. But it does something
I was guilty of exaggeration, sure. When I first posted, I vaguely remembered the study and only after you made me go look it up did I remember that it only referred to antidepressants. However, pharmaceutical companies are notorious for this kind of thing, I've heard plenty of other reports of cover ups and misleading research. It isn't a new thing.
Now, I'm not saying all pills are bad, or anything like that. Just trying to correct the assumption that pills are miracle cure alls and talk therapy is crap. Studies I've read show that the only way pills really work to cure depression is in combination with talk therapy.
Assuming this is how things actually are, what makes you think this kid expected anything different? Where do you see him begging for a medal?
But it really sounds like you are going further, saying that not only is this how things are, but how they ought to be. It really sounds like you are coming down on the guy for doing the right thing.
Or maybe you are trying to say that everyone should be as cynical as you are? Maybe you believe that we should all expect to get fucked over for doing the right thing, and anyone who doesn't expect that is an idiot who deserves what they got.
Please clarify, do you think this guy got the treatment he deserves? Should we not be outraged here? I'm confused as to your motives for posting what you originally did.
Hey, yeah, what was this guy thinking, doing the right thing in spite of the risks? He deserved to get screwed over, right? Everyone just play along, don't rock the boat, do what you're told, and shut the hell up. Thanks so much for sharing your sage wisdom and mature outlook.
Maybe he expected exactly what happened and blew the whistle anyway. So, wise elder, what would you have done?
No, acupuncture works better than placebo. It's more like, hey, I've just been stuck with something sharp, better give off some endorphins. Similar to how when you have a headache, a kick in the nuts will often cure it.
We stole countries with the cunning use of flags. Just sail around the world and stick a flag in. "I claim India for Britain!" And they're going, "You can't claim us, we live here! There's five hundred million of us!" - "Do you have a flag?" - "We don't need a bloody flag, this is our country, you bastard!" - "No flag, no country! You can't have one! That's the rules, that... I've just made up." Gotta love Eddie Izzard.
Well, the thing is, it's all a matter of perspective. To a patent holder, the system is not unbalanced. To a jock or millionaire who gets lots of supermodels, the system is not unbalanced. Geeks tend to view both of those things as unbalanced.
Now, I actually tend to agree with you, but you have missed my point entirely. I was equating the likelihood of a judge ruling broadly against patents with the likelihood of a judge mandating that supermodels have sex with me.
You know what else would be sweet? If a judge decided that supermodels refusing to have sex with me was technically valid, but too onerous. Following that logic, it would be an open door for judicial review of the whole "super models not having sex with nerds" system. That would be super sweet for all of us.
Acupuncture isn't COMPLETE bunk. It just doesn't seem to matter where you stick the needles.
Psychology is not loosely regulated and it is not full of quacks and charlatans. You still need a Ph.D. to call yourself a psychologist. If you had said "Therapy" in general, you'd be closer to correct.
And as far as psychiatry goes, you do know that the pharmaceutical companies covered up data showing that most psychopharmaceuticals are no more effective than placebos, right? If anything is loosely regulated, it is the testing and reporting process the pharmas go through. I mean, new medicines have to be safe but they certainly don't need to be effective.
Oh please. Scientists DO NOT ignore the electrical force. How can you say that? Scientists are not some cabal dedicated to preserving sacred theories, if anything, each scientist wants to make a name for himself, and if they can overturn prior theories, they will be remembered for all time. But they have to prove themselves, and bluster and bullshit won't cut it.
As for your question regarding electromagnetism, I'm astounded by your ignorance. Does a magnetic field affect neutral particles? No? Even though gravity does? Impossible, right? I mean, matter is matter, and it has to be effected by all four forces, right? Photons 'feel' all four forces, right?
No. You have an incredibly poor understanding of basic physics, and any skepticism you have regarding current physics theories could easily be cleared up with some basic college level courses.
Electric Universe proponents are not a bunch of brave rebels fighting against the evil "government funded" scientific oligarchy. They are nut cases who do not understand basic physics, and therefore can not even argue against it correctly.
Scientists do not deny that electrical fields are important in cosmology, rather, they understand them much better than EU idiots. Scientists do deny the basic, and incredibly moronic premise of EU theory, namely that stars are electromagnetic rather than nuclear phenomenon.
You do not understand big bang theory. The universe never expanded beyond its event horizon, that is a ludicrous interpretation. There was no event horizon because there was and is no "outside" that the "black hole" is expanding into.
Just because you do not understand modern physics does not mean it is false.
And the one that you and I could have built for less than one dollar would not have survived launch, let alone deep space or landing. Government is not automatically and always wasteful. It is not insightful to claim it is. Pointing out specifically when government is wasteful is a good thing, but you are just assuming here, and I seriously doubt you are correct that the average slashdotter could have built a replacement that would have worked for less money than was actually spent.
Slashdot Mirror
Right, because expected value calculations play no part in game theory. It's not like they are one of the most fundamental foundations of the theory or anything. How silly of me.
So, you are saying that corporations that commit crimes, up to and including murder, should get away with a slap on the wrist because government is what? Worse than murder?
Why present a false dichotomy? Are you so intellectually bankrupt and slavishly devoted to your dogma of greed-driven, unrestricted capitalism that you can't think up any possible alternatives?
Or maybe you just think the status quo is just peachy?
Simple games theory. If the expected payoff of fraud is greater than the penalty, fraud is inevitable. Here's a thought: instead of fines, revoke the corporate charter for serious crimes. Only in America can people still get the death penalty while corporations can't.
There is no way the electromagnetic force can account for observed gravitational lensing. This is why I can't talk with people like you, you simply refuse to accept the obvious, verified, peer reviewed evidence. You have no counter theory that predicts observations. Yet you persist in your beliefs despite all evidence because you want to believe things work a certain way.
Further discussion would be a pointless waste of both our time.
Seriously, I'm glad I browse at -1.
Nicely said.
That was written in 1896, putting it 12 years after Flatland which I think was the first treatment of the theme of the consequences of differing numbers of dimensions. Nothing new under the sun, eh?
That's the one I was thinking of! I thought it was either Asimov or Bradbury but I couldn't remember which. I also read the Rudy Rucker novel that contains a similar bit, but I knew that wasn't the first treatment of the theme.
Wow to HG Wells if he did it first (anyone know the name of the story?), though I would consider the general themes of 'consequences of different numbers of dimensions' as having been laid out in Flatland before that.
To quote my own post, the one you replied to, "what was this guy thinking, doing the right thing in spite of the risks?"
That's called sarcasm, by the way.
Man, you know, now that I know that "people will always be people," I guess I can just dismiss the whole human rights movement, women's suffrage, equal rights, labor activism, and every other form of social progress as mere illusions.
Cynical assholes will always be losers. How's that bitterness treating you? Turned into cancer or heart disease yet? Don't worry, it will. Bitter and petty individuals rarely live long.
Maybe the real message here is not that people will never change. Maybe the message is that you are too small minded to change or grow, and you're bitter towards the majority of us who can and do.
I would think the whole reference to a kick in the balls curing a headache would make it obvious that I AM being silly. Acupuncture does not do what it claims to and their aren't any magical energy fields in the body. But it does something
I was guilty of exaggeration, sure. When I first posted, I vaguely remembered the study and only after you made me go look it up did I remember that it only referred to antidepressants. However, pharmaceutical companies are notorious for this kind of thing, I've heard plenty of other reports of cover ups and misleading research. It isn't a new thing.
Now, I'm not saying all pills are bad, or anything like that. Just trying to correct the assumption that pills are miracle cure alls and talk therapy is crap. Studies I've read show that the only way pills really work to cure depression is in combination with talk therapy.
Assuming this is how things actually are, what makes you think this kid expected anything different? Where do you see him begging for a medal?
But it really sounds like you are going further, saying that not only is this how things are, but how they ought to be. It really sounds like you are coming down on the guy for doing the right thing.
Or maybe you are trying to say that everyone should be as cynical as you are? Maybe you believe that we should all expect to get fucked over for doing the right thing, and anyone who doesn't expect that is an idiot who deserves what they got.
Please clarify, do you think this guy got the treatment he deserves? Should we not be outraged here? I'm confused as to your motives for posting what you originally did.
Hey, yeah, what was this guy thinking, doing the right thing in spite of the risks? He deserved to get screwed over, right? Everyone just play along, don't rock the boat, do what you're told, and shut the hell up. Thanks so much for sharing your sage wisdom and mature outlook.
Maybe he expected exactly what happened and blew the whistle anyway. So, wise elder, what would you have done?
No, acupuncture works better than placebo. It's more like, hey, I've just been stuck with something sharp, better give off some endorphins. Similar to how when you have a headache, a kick in the nuts will often cure it.
As for the whole pharmaceutical industry cover up of antidepressants, would you consider the New England Journal of Medicine and the New York Times credible?
Well, the thing is, it's all a matter of perspective. To a patent holder, the system is not unbalanced. To a jock or millionaire who gets lots of supermodels, the system is not unbalanced. Geeks tend to view both of those things as unbalanced.
Now, I actually tend to agree with you, but you have missed my point entirely. I was equating the likelihood of a judge ruling broadly against patents with the likelihood of a judge mandating that supermodels have sex with me.
You know what else would be sweet? If a judge decided that supermodels refusing to have sex with me was technically valid, but too onerous. Following that logic, it would be an open door for judicial review of the whole "super models not having sex with nerds" system. That would be super sweet for all of us.
Way to miss the point. Show me how much was actually spent on this device, or shut up about "wasteful government."
Dark matter has been observed through gravitational lensing.
Acupuncture isn't COMPLETE bunk. It just doesn't seem to matter where you stick the needles.
Psychology is not loosely regulated and it is not full of quacks and charlatans. You still need a Ph.D. to call yourself a psychologist. If you had said "Therapy" in general, you'd be closer to correct.
And as far as psychiatry goes, you do know that the pharmaceutical companies covered up data showing that most psychopharmaceuticals are no more effective than placebos, right? If anything is loosely regulated, it is the testing and reporting process the pharmas go through. I mean, new medicines have to be safe but they certainly don't need to be effective.
Oh please. Scientists DO NOT ignore the electrical force. How can you say that? Scientists are not some cabal dedicated to preserving sacred theories, if anything, each scientist wants to make a name for himself, and if they can overturn prior theories, they will be remembered for all time. But they have to prove themselves, and bluster and bullshit won't cut it.
As for your question regarding electromagnetism, I'm astounded by your ignorance. Does a magnetic field affect neutral particles? No? Even though gravity does? Impossible, right? I mean, matter is matter, and it has to be effected by all four forces, right? Photons 'feel' all four forces, right?
No. You have an incredibly poor understanding of basic physics, and any skepticism you have regarding current physics theories could easily be cleared up with some basic college level courses.
Electric Universe proponents are not a bunch of brave rebels fighting against the evil "government funded" scientific oligarchy. They are nut cases who do not understand basic physics, and therefore can not even argue against it correctly.
Scientists do not deny that electrical fields are important in cosmology, rather, they understand them much better than EU idiots. Scientists do deny the basic, and incredibly moronic premise of EU theory, namely that stars are electromagnetic rather than nuclear phenomenon.
You do not understand big bang theory. The universe never expanded beyond its event horizon, that is a ludicrous interpretation. There was no event horizon because there was and is no "outside" that the "black hole" is expanding into.
Just because you do not understand modern physics does not mean it is false.
And the one that you and I could have built for less than one dollar would not have survived launch, let alone deep space or landing. Government is not automatically and always wasteful. It is not insightful to claim it is. Pointing out specifically when government is wasteful is a good thing, but you are just assuming here, and I seriously doubt you are correct that the average slashdotter could have built a replacement that would have worked for less money than was actually spent.