Covering your own ass from liability is not "doing the right thing". Keeping the network secure was the right thing to do, and fat lot of good that did him. Disregarding the purpose of your job for the sake of keeping your job is the epitome of the bureaucratic hellscape I want to avoid.
What I've been rallying around is his professionalism and doing the right thing even in the face of vengeful authority. And apparently the lesson is to fuck over the people and their network, expose it the PHB's, and whatever highschool grad they hire to replace you, and simply wash your hands of the whole affair.
Oh wait, you can't, because you'd be liable for the network and they'll probably sue you when the next in line screws it all up. So you might as well just slit your own throat well before they need a sacrificial lamb.
Regardless about how much I help out myself, I'd still rather elect the guy who wants to help people then the person who wants to go kill people if it's all the same to you.
Whether it's nature or nurture that's at fault, the ignorant are products of their parents/culture.
Uh. If it's nature's fault then they are specifically not the products of their parents/culture. Those two factors would be "nurture". I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that both nature and nurture have an impact (or fault, if you will), but the argument is to what extent each influences people.
As for using media and education to provided opportunity, yeah I'd say that's the best way to give the lower class a leg up. Statically, people are going to be the product of their environment, so we should try to improve the environment. Wooo psychohistory. But what makes you blame the people in charge of the media and education systems? They and their actions are also, on the whole, a product of their environment. I think you're giving them too much credit when you describe them as "smart".
I just have the crippling burden of being a history buff, knowing how often science gives birth to atrocities.
Well how about you haul your crippled self out here and give us a few examples of said atrocities. Because I'm thinking that for every "atrocity", we'll be able to find a few miraculous breakthroughs and progresses.
You're milage will vary based on your local. Way back in the before times, I had a teacher play the racial card on me and a friend when we were talking about hillbillies. Now, to us, it wasn't a racially charged word, it was just a stereotype on cartoons. But she was from Arkansas where Billy really did live out in the hills.
But no, rednecks are white, inbred, rural, old-school republicans. Their necks are red because they spend a lot of time in the sun with t-shirts on and they get burnt. Please describe the black rednecks you encountered as you're confusing a lot of us here.
I thought this was the whole point of why the PHB buys the expensive proprietary software vs. the free open software; they want someone to sue. The PHBs of the business world distrust free software, don't understand the motivations behind it's existence. But with Paid For(tm) software, the worker bees need to keep the client happy. And if things explode then they get fired or lose their job, or the company gets sued, and the CEO loses 20% of his bonus that year.
So if McAfee (and the security industry on the whole) doesn't face any repercussions for fucking shit up, why go with the costly proprietary solution?
The original intent of the Havasupai was a cure for their diabetes only so far as keeping people in the canyon. Sure.
I dunno what the original intent of Markow was, but it was a grant from schitzo researchers that paid her to go sample their blood. You don't know, nor do I, if they kept things vague for liability purposes, paperwork purposes, or so they could research for whatever ails the tribe. But in the article, and that's all I've read, this was explained to them. Sure, the tribe wanted a cure for diabetes, but the agreement was for any disorder. It's not the letter vs the spirit. It's more like the letter vs. the word vs. what the tribe actually wanted vs. what the scientists actually wanted.
I think the university should "Suck it up and deal with reality" that they dropped the ball here.
mmm, yeah. And they did. A payout, destroying the samples. They should have kept closer contact with the tribe and kept them informed.
or at the very least terminated the agreement after the diabetes research concluded.
Well this is where I disagree. You've got a sample of interesting DNA from a anthropology perspective, and you've got permission to study it. I would rather it be studied, documented, and have it aid human knowledge rather then it be destroyed because the truth might ruffle some religious feathers.
The idea that anything personal should be destroyed so other people can't see it has to make anthropologists, historians, and scientists in general cringe something fierce.
What? You thought Geeks were immune to human nature?
A few on here were very vocal believers in Reiser simply because they were fans, or trusted their fellow geek over, well, anything else. But a lot of people here didn't blindly defend him. I didn't go one way or the other as I honestly didn't care that much. I believe that slashdot, on the whole, is better about blind faith then other subsets of the populous. We're more rational. Except for Microsoft, those fuckers can DIAF.
And I saw slashdot split on the Terry Child's case down the boss/worker line. A lot of people quickly assumed details based on the initial reporting. I followed this one a little more closely, but this one looked a little worse. The first reports came out blatantly against Childs, and a lot of people wouldn't give up on that disposition against him when the facts came to light. So yeah, after going over the case, I'm siding with Childs as he followed policy.
We are hardly immune to the fallacies of humanity. It may be pride, but I think we're better then the common lot. But if we ever fail to self-police ourselves, and call bullshit for what it is, then we will be as corruptible as anyone else.
YES! And it was said in the context of searching for said illegal activity on his machine, and reminding people that he is legally bound to turn over those searches to police.
I would prefer that he didn't do that, but that's above his control, my control, and there is honestly a good reason for it.
I do prefer that he be upfront about what he is going to do, as he has done
What I don't prefer is when the policy of companies is a mystery.
And what's fucking evil is when they lie about their policy
I can't believe his one quote has been so twisted by paranoid freaks, and then published on slashdot.
Yeah, PFFFT, those "heroes" of WWII were just in it for global domination. They knew that Hitler's career was going to be fucked if he didn't conquer the world. They were just in it to get themselves out of the depression.
I'm all for world peace, but there are situations where you would do better not to fight for it. Just surrender, ship off the jews, get on with your life, and respect that the SS is probably only doing their job. There is no need to use your sovereignty to cause unnecessary freedom for the world.
(also, you're calling a cop vs. citizen confrontation as unequal on the side of the citizen? Think about how freakishly uncommon that is.)
Roughly 100 tribe members who gave blood from 1990 to 1994 signed a broad consent that said the research was to “study the causes of behavioral/medical disorders.”
The consent form was purposely simple, Dr. Markow said, given that English was a second language for many Havasupai, and few of the tribe’s 650 members had graduated from high school. They were always given the opportunity to ask questions, she said, and students were also instructed to explain the project and get written and verbal consent from donors.
Except, as others have pointed out and you would know if you had RTFA, they DID have permission. The Havasupai went to the researchers to cure their diabetes, but in that process they were told, and agreed to, being researched for other disorders.
Now, I can see, in a way, being miffed that research was done that didn't have any hopes of helping the people. (other then giving them knowledge about themselves). And they could ever so slightly argue for some kick-back from that research, but that's a little greedy.
But other then uncovering some inconvenient truths, I'm not seeing the problem. Suck it up and deal with reality. I'm siding with the researchers on this one.
Slashdot Mirror
Covering your own ass from liability is not "doing the right thing". Keeping the network secure was the right thing to do, and fat lot of good that did him. Disregarding the purpose of your job for the sake of keeping your job is the epitome of the bureaucratic hellscape I want to avoid.
Sure, to hell with him.
What I've been rallying around is his professionalism and doing the right thing even in the face of vengeful authority. And apparently the lesson is to fuck over the people and their network, expose it the PHB's, and whatever highschool grad they hire to replace you, and simply wash your hands of the whole affair.
Oh wait, you can't, because you'd be liable for the network and they'll probably sue you when the next in line screws it all up. So you might as well just slit your own throat well before they need a sacrificial lamb.
Regardless about how much I help out myself, I'd still rather elect the guy who wants to help people then the person who wants to go kill people if it's all the same to you.
That would be Poe's law, from Nathan Poe on the christianforums.com talking about christian fundamentalists.
Man, you mention "Obama" and "weapons" and all the crazies come out to play.
Oh wow, the parents fault through their genes. Yeah, wow, I completely missed that. Sorry.
Bloddy friscking g'dmnit!
. . . The last three REPUBLICAN presidents.
Oye...
You probably also voted for the last three presidents and consider yourself a fiscal conservative.
You are identifying with these labels simply out of cultural inertia, or "tradition", if you want to be traditional.
Whether it's nature or nurture that's at fault, the ignorant are products of their parents/culture.
Uh. If it's nature's fault then they are specifically not the products of their parents/culture. Those two factors would be "nurture". I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that both nature and nurture have an impact (or fault, if you will), but the argument is to what extent each influences people.
As for using media and education to provided opportunity, yeah I'd say that's the best way to give the lower class a leg up. Statically, people are going to be the product of their environment, so we should try to improve the environment. Wooo psychohistory. But what makes you blame the people in charge of the media and education systems? They and their actions are also, on the whole, a product of their environment. I think you're giving them too much credit when you describe them as "smart".
I just have the crippling burden of being a history buff, knowing how often science gives birth to atrocities.
Well how about you haul your crippled self out here and give us a few examples of said atrocities. Because I'm thinking that for every "atrocity", we'll be able to find a few miraculous breakthroughs and progresses.
see: Poseur
You're milage will vary based on your local. Way back in the before times, I had a teacher play the racial card on me and a friend when we were talking about hillbillies. Now, to us, it wasn't a racially charged word, it was just a stereotype on cartoons. But she was from Arkansas where Billy really did live out in the hills.
But no, rednecks are white, inbred, rural, old-school republicans. Their necks are red because they spend a lot of time in the sun with t-shirts on and they get burnt. Please describe the black rednecks you encountered as you're confusing a lot of us here.
I thought this was the whole point of why the PHB buys the expensive proprietary software vs. the free open software; they want someone to sue. The PHBs of the business world distrust free software, don't understand the motivations behind it's existence. But with Paid For(tm) software, the worker bees need to keep the client happy. And if things explode then they get fired or lose their job, or the company gets sued, and the CEO loses 20% of his bonus that year.
So if McAfee (and the security industry on the whole) doesn't face any repercussions for fucking shit up, why go with the costly proprietary solution?
Yeah, I never liked it.
I dunno what the original intent of Markow was, but it was a grant from schitzo researchers that paid her to go sample their blood. You don't know, nor do I, if they kept things vague for liability purposes, paperwork purposes, or so they could research for whatever ails the tribe. But in the article, and that's all I've read, this was explained to them. Sure, the tribe wanted a cure for diabetes, but the agreement was for any disorder. It's not the letter vs the spirit. It's more like the letter vs. the word vs. what the tribe actually wanted vs. what the scientists actually wanted.
I think the university should "Suck it up and deal with reality" that they dropped the ball here.
mmm, yeah. And they did. A payout, destroying the samples. They should have kept closer contact with the tribe and kept them informed.
or at the very least terminated the agreement after the diabetes research concluded.
Well this is where I disagree. You've got a sample of interesting DNA from a anthropology perspective, and you've got permission to study it. I would rather it be studied, documented, and have it aid human knowledge rather then it be destroyed because the truth might ruffle some religious feathers.
The idea that anything personal should be destroyed so other people can't see it has to make anthropologists, historians, and scientists in general cringe something fierce.
What? You thought Geeks were immune to human nature?
A few on here were very vocal believers in Reiser simply because they were fans, or trusted their fellow geek over, well, anything else. But a lot of people here didn't blindly defend him. I didn't go one way or the other as I honestly didn't care that much. I believe that slashdot, on the whole, is better about blind faith then other subsets of the populous. We're more rational. Except for Microsoft, those fuckers can DIAF.
And I saw slashdot split on the Terry Child's case down the boss/worker line. A lot of people quickly assumed details based on the initial reporting. I followed this one a little more closely, but this one looked a little worse. The first reports came out blatantly against Childs, and a lot of people wouldn't give up on that disposition against him when the facts came to light. So yeah, after going over the case, I'm siding with Childs as he followed policy.
We are hardly immune to the fallacies of humanity. It may be pride, but I think we're better then the common lot. But if we ever fail to self-police ourselves, and call bullshit for what it is, then we will be as corruptible as anyone else.
YES! And it was said in the context of searching for said illegal activity on his machine, and reminding people that he is legally bound to turn over those searches to police.
I would prefer that he didn't do that, but that's above his control, my control, and there is honestly a good reason for it.
I do prefer that he be upfront about what he is going to do, as he has done
What I don't prefer is when the policy of companies is a mystery.
And what's fucking evil is when they lie about their policy
I can't believe his one quote has been so twisted by paranoid freaks, and then published on slashdot.
Yeah, PFFFT, those "heroes" of WWII were just in it for global domination. They knew that Hitler's career was going to be fucked if he didn't conquer the world. They were just in it to get themselves out of the depression.
I'm all for world peace, but there are situations where you would do better not to fight for it. Just surrender, ship off the jews, get on with your life, and respect that the SS is probably only doing their job. There is no need to use your sovereignty to cause unnecessary freedom for the world.
(also, you're calling a cop vs. citizen confrontation as unequal on the side of the citizen? Think about how freakishly uncommon that is.)
Roughly 100 tribe members who gave blood from 1990 to 1994 signed a broad consent that said the research was to “study the causes of behavioral/medical disorders.” The consent form was purposely simple, Dr. Markow said, given that English was a second language for many Havasupai, and few of the tribe’s 650 members had graduated from high school. They were always given the opportunity to ask questions, she said, and students were also instructed to explain the project and get written and verbal consent from donors.
So yes. They did.
Jackass.
Except, as others have pointed out and you would know if you had RTFA, they DID have permission. The Havasupai went to the researchers to cure their diabetes, but in that process they were told, and agreed to, being researched for other disorders.
Now, I can see, in a way, being miffed that research was done that didn't have any hopes of helping the people. (other then giving them knowledge about themselves). And they could ever so slightly argue for some kick-back from that research, but that's a little greedy.
But other then uncovering some inconvenient truths, I'm not seeing the problem. Suck it up and deal with reality. I'm siding with the researchers on this one.
Fuck yeah Dwarf Fortress, Nethack, DungeonCrawl, DoomRL, Splunkey, MazeCrawl, Slash'em, DuesEx, X-Com, FinalFantasyTactics, disgaia, Odin Sphere, Natuk, and yes, the original EXILE.
("Hooray". It goes Hip Hip Hooray)
Too be fair, the terrorists are no more about Islam then Pat Robertson is about Christianity.
Actually, to be fair, the terrorists are AS MUCH about Islam as Pat Robertson is about Christianity.
Which makes you a nutjob.
AYE, and a TRUE SCOTSMAN eats lightning and craps thunder!