This bullshit is here because of CrapDot's fucking lame-ass compression filter.
Goatse.cx links follow.
Goat #1 Goat #2 Goat #3 Goat #4 Goat #5 Goat #6 Maybe now this poorly-engineered piece of rubbish will let me post.
What ever happened to copying your opponents victories and avoiding his mistakes?
Who, pray tell, is my opponent?
It all comes down to the right tool for the job, and I happen to think UNIX/X is not the optimal tool for a GUI "client" box.
I've come to this conclusion from experience, not propaganda.
Its very convenient to run a server programs on your workstation. Dont be fooled. There is no need to have tons of identical hardware single purpose machines. (one web server-one file server- one desktop). Such is wasteful.
Are you seriously suggesting that I run a production {http|ftp|etc} server on the same workstation I develop on?
That would just lead to another UNIX with a GUI on top. Not something that I'm very interested in. The AtheOS kernel, filesystem, and GUI have many features that are not found in UNIX and that will play very important roles in the desktop environment. Porting a desktop environment from UNIX would not make AtheOS a new desktop OS. If I wanted to run KDE I would probably have been better off installing FreeBSD/KDE than to write my own kernel/GUI, then wrap the GUI in a foreign toolkit stripping away any special features from the native GUI, and then port KDE to this.
Finally, someone with the balls to stand up to the UNIX/X weenies.
I'm glad there are people out there working on alternative OSes geared more towards the desktop than the server, seems like too much focus lately has been placed on making UNIX something it wasn't intended to be, rather than starting from scratch.
UNIX is great, but not for everything. Props to Kurt for defending his vision.
It's true that games love faster CPUs but it is also true that it is probably possible to make much faster/better games in the standard constraints that we already have but people don't care to do that anymore (remember 64k games that looked cool as hell or even 4mb games?)
IIRC, the size of the QuakeIII engine is only a couple meg, and the data files are some 400 meg.
The only way in this case to reduce so-called "bloat" is to sacrifice quality of models, textures, effects, etc.
Sure, oldskool games are tons of fun, but why should modern game developers be encouraged to use artificial constraints?
Games are for fun - visual quality and playability are much more important than efficiency.
Sending your picture in front of the Eiffel tower to your kids on your cell phone is less important than decreasing the bloat!
Maybe to you, but the average consumer cares more about gadgets (like cameras) than knowing the firmware on their phone takes only 4k.
Thats true, except the Athlon and P4 have the same architecture...32-bit x86 in this case.
They're very different internally.
P4 has a lengthened pipeline, among other things.
Really, the only similarity in the processors is the instruction set.
Saying Athlon and P4 are the same is like saying a PIII and a 486DX are the same.
If you line up 1.4 v 1.4, AMD does not win all the benchmarks.
To me, it doesn't matter. AMD wins more than Intel does, clock-for-clock.
Paying extra for the Intel name is like paying extra for the Nike name.
Sure the P4 might be (and probably is, and vice-versa) superior in some ways, but they are close enough to make me go with the product that has better a price:performance ratio - unquestionably the Athlon.
(For extra fun, factor RDRAM into the price of the P4 as well...Intel's DDR mobo is still a ways off...:)
I think I can truthfully say, that the P4 has vastly inferior price:performance ratios.
How many of those that AMD wins are synthetic?
On the flip side, how many Intel wins are synthetic?
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Note that I said "arguably inferior" for a reason.
Higher octane means (IIRC) the gas has a higher ignition point, so it won't "knock"(pre-ignite) in high compression [high performance] engines.
"Knock" will reduce performance, and will eventually damage your engine.
In your average car, putting in high octane has absolutely no benefit, except maybe to give you a good feeling that you're putting "premium" gas in it.
Bottom line: use what your manual tells you to use. Don't try to outsmart the people that designed your engine.
Just curious, how do you overclock one? Can you change settings in the BIOS or something?
Yup. My Shuttle AK31 board lets you change multipliers, FSB, voltage and a shitload of other things all through the BIOS.
Works very nicely, too...I got my Duron 750 up to 900 with no problem.
Umm...Why? AMD's chips are, clock for clock, faster.
Only recently was Intel able to beat the 1.4Ghz Athlon........with a 2Ghz part.
You'd rather pay more for an arguably inferior part, just because AMD is changing it's numbering scheme?
Hell, when comparing chips of differing architectures, Mhz is a meaningless measurement anyways.
Until I can get one for under $300, I'm not gonna bother. I've got better things to waste my money on.
I can watch DVDs on my computer at high rez, and that's fine for me, I don't use my TV enough to make HD cost-effective, not to mention I don't even have space for a TV larger than 19".
I might buy a HDTV decoder card for my machine right now, provided they were available and cheap enough (Under $300, again), but that's about it. I don't see myself buying anything HD related for at least 3 years.
What would be super l33t is if the GC had a RGB out port and a SVGA adaptor...
Was the Amiga UI an influence or inspiration for the design of the AtheOS UI?
And, if so, are there any other aspects of the Amiga platform that influenced your design?
Yeah, but what about when you want to buy the hard drive + internet add-on from Nintendo?
While I might buy the ethernet card, but I can't really fathom why I'd need a hard drive, except maybe for playing copied games without needing a DVD burner.
With a well-designed format, an 8Mb FLASH card should be able to hold many, many savegames.
And even so, it's easier for me to drop $200 on an impulse purchase, than $300.
Xbox might be cheaper in the long run, but I'm usually more concerned with short term cost, as in "if I buy this will I still be able to make my car payment".
Maybe you could use a monochrome LCD and cycle it while changing the colors to produce a full-color effect? That might be a lot more efficient than the current color-filters which absorb a lot of light I'm sure.
I was thinking that too. Not only could you get potentially better battery life, but 3x the resolution on current displays, since you don't need 3 subpixels for one color pixel.
And it doesn't have a new architecture. It has the same PowerPC architecture thats been around for years.
And there's something wrong with that?
Clock for clock, PPC beats Pentium.
Only 480p. Xbox supports up to 1024 I believe. TRUE HDTV support.
By the time HDTV equipment gets cheap enough that I can afford it, both machines will be obselete.
HDTV is a non-issue for me and most people I know.
Oh and add proprietary, smaller, storage of the GC(N64 anyone?), no internet out of the box, and the realtime Dolby Digital features of the Xbox, and you can compare.
Proprietary? I thought the GC's media was just a ~3" DVD...Are 3" 'CD Singles' "proprietary", too?
Comparing the GC's optical technology to the N64's cartriges is bullshit. Apples and oranges.
I don't have a home theater, so can't really say Dolby makes a shit of difference to me,
it's gonna sound the same anyways.
Yes, I have a ghetto A/V setup.
I think the biggest flaw in your rebuttal was that you didn't consider two things: Games and price.
The GC has Metroid, Zelda, Mario, Starfox, Rogue Leader and a bunch of other games in the works.
The only games for Xbox I've seen that look interesting are (the vaporus) Halo, and DOA3.
Nintendo's gameplay has always kicked ass, and I expect the same from the GC.
Microsoft remains questionable in this area.
Additionally, the GC is $100 less, meaning I can buy the system and a couple games for about the cost of an Xbox console alone.
[Yeah, this conversation is dead, but I'm a jerk.]
Before a year or two ago *nix was the only systems doing high performence 3D and SGI still pretty much rules the roost in the 3D workstation market.
No shit. I have an Indy sitting on my desk.
I'm fully aware that IRIX (and other high-end unices) support some of the highest performance graphics hardware around (InfiniteReality, anyone?) but Linux Is Not UniX, and XFree86 is not XSGI.
I don't care WHY 3D sucks on Linux, I'm just observing that in my experience, it does, and until 3D works as smoothly as St. Ides Malt Liquor drinks, linux will not be a viable gaming OS.
Since when is pointing out gaping flaws "bashing"?
There are problems, and the "community" generally responds by blaming everything BUT their software (be it drivers, apps, or the kernel), instead of trying to make their software more bulletproof, writing better docs, or even admitting their software may have problems.
There is nothing blessed about linux. Get over it, it's just an OS.
I think that we all have forgotten that linux and most of it's programs were done on a volunteer basis
How true that is. Watching the linux scene over the last few years has been like watching a great punk band sell out.
What we can do is blackball those who'd work with Hollywood. This can be anything from removing them from mailing lists to ignoring or even hindering changes they'd want to make to applications and operating systems that are open source.
And this would help "open source" how?
It's funny how all the linux kids want open source to have mainstream acceptance, beat MS, and "take over the world", but aren't willing to let people just use it.
Movie studios aren't going to "live off the dregs" of open source, they'll just go with IRIX, Solaris or even Win2k.
Sure, they'll pay marginally more, but it's not as if money is a constraint for a studio.
Slashdot Mirror
Docs for the full Inspiron line.
C-X C-S
This bullshit is here because of CrapDot's fucking lame-ass compression filter.
Goatse.cx links follow.
Goat #1
Goat #2
Goat #3
Goat #4
Goat #5
Goat #6
Maybe now this poorly-engineered piece of rubbish will let me post.
What ever happened to copying your opponents victories and avoiding his mistakes?
Who, pray tell, is my opponent?
It all comes down to the right tool for the job, and I happen to think UNIX/X is not the optimal tool for a GUI "client" box.
I've come to this conclusion from experience, not propaganda.
Its very convenient to run a server programs on your workstation. Dont be fooled. There is no need to have tons of identical hardware single purpose machines. (one web server-one file server- one desktop). Such is wasteful.
Are you seriously suggesting that I run a production {http|ftp|etc} server on the same workstation I develop on?
C-X C-S
That would just lead to another UNIX with a GUI on top. Not something that I'm very interested in. The AtheOS kernel, filesystem, and GUI have many features that are not found in UNIX and that will play very important roles in the desktop environment. Porting a desktop environment from UNIX would not make AtheOS a new desktop OS. If I wanted to run KDE I would probably have been better off installing FreeBSD/KDE than to write my own kernel/GUI, then wrap the GUI in a foreign toolkit stripping away any special features from the native GUI, and then port KDE to this.
Finally, someone with the balls to stand up to the UNIX/X weenies.
I'm glad there are people out there working on alternative OSes geared more towards the desktop than the server, seems like too much focus lately has been placed on making UNIX something it wasn't intended to be, rather than starting from scratch.
UNIX is great, but not for everything. Props to Kurt for defending his vision.
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The "FREE DIMITRY with every purchase" was great.
Funniest thing I've read today.
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It's true that games love faster CPUs but it is also true that it is probably possible to make much faster/better games in the standard constraints that we already have but people don't care to do that anymore (remember 64k games that looked cool as hell or even 4mb games?)
IIRC, the size of the QuakeIII engine is only a couple meg, and the data files are some 400 meg.
The only way in this case to reduce so-called "bloat" is to sacrifice quality of models, textures, effects, etc.
Sure, oldskool games are tons of fun, but why should modern game developers be encouraged to use artificial constraints?
Games are for fun - visual quality and playability are much more important than efficiency.
Sending your picture in front of the Eiffel tower to your kids on your cell phone is less important than decreasing the bloat!
Maybe to you, but the average consumer cares more about gadgets (like cameras) than knowing the firmware on their phone takes only 4k.
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RTFM
GeneralKael -- Slacker Extraordinaire
Real slackers never RTFM.
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No, wait? you're linux nerds, you'll never use it?
Sure they will.
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Uh, how do you know the BIOS changed the clock speed from 750 to 900? Because the BIOS told you? Do you believe everything you read?
Ever heard or Sandra? Or WCPUID?
There are many ways to confirm clock speed or performance gains.
THINK McFly, THINK.
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Confirm this.
Thats true, except the Athlon and P4 have the same architecture...32-bit x86 in this case.
They're very different internally.
P4 has a lengthened pipeline, among other things.
Really, the only similarity in the processors is the instruction set.
Saying Athlon and P4 are the same is like saying a PIII and a 486DX are the same.
C-X C-S
If you line up 1.4 v 1.4, AMD does not win all the benchmarks.
:)
To me, it doesn't matter. AMD wins more than Intel does, clock-for-clock.
Paying extra for the Intel name is like paying extra for the Nike name.
Sure the P4 might be (and probably is, and vice-versa) superior in some ways, but they are close enough to make me go with the product that has better a price:performance ratio - unquestionably the Athlon.
(For extra fun, factor RDRAM into the price of the P4 as well...Intel's DDR mobo is still a ways off...
I think I can truthfully say, that the P4 has vastly inferior price:performance ratios.
How many of those that AMD wins are synthetic?
On the flip side, how many Intel wins are synthetic?
C-X C-S
Note that I said "arguably inferior" for a reason.
Higher Octane IS better.
No, It's not "better", it's "different".
Higher octane means (IIRC) the gas has a higher ignition point, so it won't "knock"(pre-ignite) in high compression [high performance] engines.
"Knock" will reduce performance, and will eventually damage your engine.
In your average car, putting in high octane has absolutely no benefit, except maybe to give you a good feeling that you're putting "premium" gas in it.
Bottom line: use what your manual tells you to use. Don't try to outsmart the people that designed your engine.
C-X C-S
Just curious, how do you overclock one? Can you change settings in the BIOS or something?
Yup. My Shuttle AK31 board lets you change multipliers, FSB, voltage and a shitload of other things all through the BIOS.
Works very nicely, too...I got my Duron 750 up to 900 with no problem.
C-X C-S
Either way maybe it's time to move back to Intel.
Umm...Why? AMD's chips are, clock for clock, faster.
Only recently was Intel able to beat the 1.4Ghz Athlon........with a 2Ghz part.
You'd rather pay more for an arguably inferior part, just because AMD is changing it's numbering scheme?
Hell, when comparing chips of differing architectures, Mhz is a meaningless measurement anyways.
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Until I can get one for under $300, I'm not gonna bother. I've got better things to waste my money on.
I can watch DVDs on my computer at high rez, and that's fine for me, I don't use my TV enough to make HD cost-effective, not to mention I don't even have space for a TV larger than 19".
I might buy a HDTV decoder card for my machine right now, provided they were available and cheap enough (Under $300, again), but that's about it. I don't see myself buying anything HD related for at least 3 years.
What would be super l33t is if the GC had a RGB out port and a SVGA adaptor...
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Thanks. I wasn't able to get to the site to read the FAQ, so I shot in the dark.
Someone nuke my previous comment.
The AtheOS UI strikes me as a bit Amiga-ish.
Was the Amiga UI an influence or inspiration for the design of the AtheOS UI?
And, if so, are there any other aspects of the Amiga platform that influenced your design?
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Keep up the good work!
Yeah, but what about when you want to buy the hard drive + internet add-on from Nintendo?
While I might buy the ethernet card, but I can't really fathom why I'd need a hard drive, except maybe for playing copied games without needing a DVD burner.
With a well-designed format, an 8Mb FLASH card should be able to hold many, many savegames.
And even so, it's easier for me to drop $200 on an impulse purchase, than $300.
Xbox might be cheaper in the long run, but I'm usually more concerned with short term cost, as in "if I buy this will I still be able to make my car payment".
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I've seen stuff about Xbox getting a new grand theft auto, and crazy taxi. That sure as hell appeals more to me than anything with Mario.
Actually, I've read (unconfirmed) reports that the GC will have a Crazy Taxi port.
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Maybe you could use a monochrome LCD and cycle it while changing the colors to produce a full-color effect? That might be a lot more efficient than the current color-filters which absorb a lot of light I'm sure.
I was thinking that too. Not only could you get potentially better battery life, but 3x the resolution on current displays, since you don't need 3 subpixels for one color pixel.
C-X C-S
And it doesn't have a new architecture. It has the same PowerPC architecture thats been around for years.
And there's something wrong with that?
Clock for clock, PPC beats Pentium.
Only 480p. Xbox supports up to 1024 I believe. TRUE HDTV support.
By the time HDTV equipment gets cheap enough that I can afford it, both machines will be obselete.
HDTV is a non-issue for me and most people I know.
Oh and add proprietary, smaller, storage of the GC(N64 anyone?), no internet out of the box, and the realtime Dolby Digital features of the Xbox, and you can compare.
Proprietary? I thought the GC's media was just a ~3" DVD...Are 3" 'CD Singles' "proprietary", too?
Comparing the GC's optical technology to the N64's cartriges is bullshit. Apples and oranges.
I don't have a home theater, so can't really say Dolby makes a shit of difference to me,
it's gonna sound the same anyways.
Yes, I have a ghetto A/V setup.
I think the biggest flaw in your rebuttal was that you didn't consider two things: Games and price.
The GC has Metroid, Zelda, Mario, Starfox, Rogue Leader and a bunch of other games in the works.
The only games for Xbox I've seen that look interesting are (the vaporus) Halo, and DOA3.
Nintendo's gameplay has always kicked ass, and I expect the same from the GC.
Microsoft remains questionable in this area.
Additionally, the GC is $100 less, meaning I can buy the system and a couple games for about the cost of an Xbox console alone.
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You just aren't looking hard enough.
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Heh. Yeah, I found it on pricewatch for $118.
:)
I guess when you're a linux millionaire , you don't really need to shop around.
ThinkGeek has great shirts and trinkets, but their hardware is terribly overpriced.
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It's also kinda sad that they ripped off Halibut Stuff's "I don't work here." shirt.
Looks like some OSDN people did go to DEFCON after all.
[Yeah, this conversation is dead, but I'm a jerk.]
Before a year or two ago *nix was the only systems doing high performence 3D and SGI still pretty much rules the roost in the 3D workstation market.
No shit. I have an Indy sitting on my desk.
I'm fully aware that IRIX (and other high-end unices) support some of the highest performance graphics hardware around (InfiniteReality, anyone?) but Linux Is Not UniX, and XFree86 is not XSGI.
I don't care WHY 3D sucks on Linux, I'm just observing that in my experience, it does, and until 3D works as smoothly as St. Ides Malt Liquor drinks, linux will not be a viable gaming OS.
Since when is pointing out gaping flaws "bashing"?
There are problems, and the "community" generally responds by blaming everything BUT their software (be it drivers, apps, or the kernel), instead of trying to make their software more bulletproof, writing better docs, or even admitting their software may have problems.
There is nothing blessed about linux. Get over it, it's just an OS.
I think that we all have forgotten that linux and most of it's programs were done on a volunteer basis
How true that is. Watching the linux scene over the last few years has been like watching a great punk band sell out.
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Factor in, sitting at the computer to watch it, or putting the dvd on the 61" tv with the full surround system.
My monitor is bigger than my TV.
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(And my computer has the surround sound speakers.)
What we can do is blackball those who'd work with Hollywood. This can be anything from removing them from mailing lists to ignoring or even hindering changes they'd want to make to applications and operating systems that are open source.
And this would help "open source" how?
It's funny how all the linux kids want open source to have mainstream acceptance, beat MS, and "take over the world", but aren't willing to let people just use it.
Movie studios aren't going to "live off the dregs" of open source, they'll just go with IRIX, Solaris or even Win2k.
Sure, they'll pay marginally more, but it's not as if money is a constraint for a studio.
C-X C-S