...which brings us, in satisfying circularity, to the point that the news article was in fact not specific; that it mentioned both minimal and extreme strategies to the end of assisting law enforcement; and that the statement or implication, "Yeah, we should do whatever the police want" is not a supportable one.
To reiterate my earlier implications: - I take most stringent opposition to your earlier (perceived) implication that all avenues of perceived responsibility should be pressed, irregardless of assessment of validity. - I take most stringent opposition to the idea that free e-mail should be abolished because criminals use it. - I also disagree with the creation of odd and burdensome oppositions to obtaining ISP arrangements. - I do, however, think that international cooperative agreements to honour criminal investigations are not only necessary, they are a no-brainer. YES, Australian police should be able to discuss these issues with American providers. YES, Australian police should be able to obtain cooperation once appropriate documentation, conforming to usual standards, is presented. Furthermore, I don't think that anyone has been arguing these points.
Re-reading the discussion, it really just looks like many have been trying to point out that e-mail should be handled according to general principles, and not special, technophobic rules.
So, finally, I think that the discussion has to a great degree been to cross purposes; more multifaceted than you have been recognising, and likely with a greater foundation of agreement than anyone has been admitting.
"I can see that you suspect I
mean that "police powers" should be extended whenever possible but alas
that isn't what I said."
What you said was "In the case of child pornograhpy accountability
should be pressed in as many directions as possible."
I noted my disagreement with your point as presented. Accountability
can, and is, often pressed in inappropriate directions. It is therefore
simple to recognise that your statement as quoted is an incorrect
oversimplification. We should in fact not press accountability
in "as many directions as possible", but rather only in that subset of
possible directions that are appropriate from both ethical and
practical standpoints.
What do you think of Poptones' post
on the issue? He and I don't always see eye-to-eye, but he speaks from
the vantage point of one extremely well researched on these issues.
If I have offended you, I regret having (inadvertently) done so. Far from having assumed anything about your post, I merely replied asking for clarification.
You deny being reactive, but your posts seem plenty reactive to me.
For the record, I myself have no opposition to the notion of ISP's and free e-mail providers cooperating with police investigations; to the extent that those quoted are merely calling for international streamlining of already-routine cooperation, I agree fully with it.
However, some in the article called for far more, and I am not sure that the necessity of more extreme measures has been appropriately discussed, nor that the costs have been appropriately considered.
If they have, and I have missed such discussion and consideration, please feel free to point me towards them- if you can manage to post.
Even sexual child abuse is not limited to paedophiles, in the same way that consumption of vegetables is not limited to vegetarians.
Much child abuse is committed by opportunistic predators, who will abuse anything that is available, and happen to find children to be easy prey.
Secondly, your post is vague. Exactly what are you supporting? Do you support the notion that free e-mail should be banned? If so, what do you have to substantiate the notion that such a ban would be worth the immense cost to non-criminals?
I note that you accuse your fellow/.'ers of engaging in a kneejerk reaction to your post. What can you offer to separate yourself from the crowd- to establish that your own post was itself not a kneejerk reaction?
I think that the point being made is that focussing on the adult film industry for transgressions that are common in other industries is itself misleading and wrong.
Just checked the GPL- the commercial distributor has the obligation to
"offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange"
...and that's why I have these truck tyres on my bicycle...
Of *course* they're different- even though they're similar, like truck tyres and bicycle tyres. If you try to use the wrong ones for the job, you will suffer.
Or, to reshape your own analogy, like trying to carry around floorstanding component stereo speakers for use with my Rio MP3 Player.
Ah, but true science only concerns itself with aspects of reality that can be measured...
the true scientific response to
"It's something you can't measure" may be "Well I don't care about it then" or "Well let me find a way to measure it"; but it can never be "Well then it doesn't exist"
Re:Playing Quake like this causing health problems
on
PanQuake
·
· Score: 1
Speaking as a doctor, the report you cite sounds much like humorous bullshit.
Can you please dig up that exact reference so I can read it too?
1/4th the memory (1/8th of the new version) of the iPaq for the same price
Look, the memory requirements for PalmOS and PocketPC are different enough that 8 MB is very much comparable to 32 MB in terms of basic functionality.
I also hate the stupid memory stick nonsense, but the screen on the device is supposed to be one of the best in the industry- driven by a dedicated video chip.
If you want that, you gotta pay!
Re:Another PDA Whoopee!!!
on
PDAs, PDAs
·
· Score: 1
When I say that the Psion and the Vx are not in direct competition, I mean that most of the people who are willing to spend the bucketloads of dollard that the Vx costs are spending those dollars for it because it is tiny.
"Also fairly small" is not going to satisfy them. The telling phrase there is "this is not an issue"... it may not be for you, but it is very much an important issue for many.
Indeed, a more important issue than memory and screen resolution for droves...
Trust me, I've been through this with prospective buyers.
You, my friend, are an exception.
I will grant you, however, that they are both handhelds and thus will be in competition to some degree!
I've read enough horror stories to agree that the plastic digitiser of the Palm m105 was probably a good idea, but I guess we've been lucky up to now- both screens are intact.
Again, though, I'll say- I'm able to see that the Psion is a sensible, valid choice, and I wonder why you cannot see why the choice of so many Palm aficionados (not only the blind fashion-followers!) might be a sensible choice also- for some...
Re:Another PDA Whoopee!!!
on
PDAs, PDAs
·
· Score: 1
Again, different strokes for different folks.
I assumed that you hadn't investigated the possibilities because you said that Palms were (can't remember the exact words) basically organisers, and that you wanted more function. As I know that such function exists, I assumed that you had not been exposed. Now I know that the functionality was simply not to your taste!
I hated QED myself, got SmartDoc, will soon switch to WordSmith for the formatting if the QuickOfice update doesn't come soon.
I have acquaintances who use Palms as one of the main access points to huge databases. (OK, expensive TRG Pro's, but still Palm OS devices)
I certainly am looking forward to having the memo recorder, but for now the bitmap note taker suits me just fine. The point is that it's quick! A friend of mine has a little Sharp voice memo device, and he is only marginally faster...
Why did you find the lack of a "proper" filesystem frustrating? If you wanted to fiddle, what prevented you from fiddling with the database structures and flags that the PalmOS uses? I have been called a geek myself, and what you describe sounds suspiciously like geeking only for the familiar!
I use the Go!Type keyboard, which is larger and bulkier than the newer folding one, but has the advantage of being *very* easily used on my lap. That's the place I usually rest it!
The Revo and the V/Vx are not real competitors, any more than Humvee and Porsche are. Perhaps that example is a bit exaggerated, but the Revo, while small and sleek, is much, much larger than the Vx. Indeed, the Vx had no real competitor until the introduction of the Visor Edge- those who wanted the advantages of the Vx had nowhere else to turn!
The advantage of having a keyboard separate from my device is that the device alone is smaller! So when I know I won't be using the keyboard, I don't have to travel with the extra bulk.
The Psion family of machines remains an excellent choice for many. When I was thinking of buying one for my girlfriend (who took longer to settle into Grafitti than I did, though she's fine with it now) it didn't seem to be worth (for her or me) the US$150 premium that it had then over a Palm IIIx.
So; I agree with you that Psion is an eminently sensible choice. I remind you, though, that the reason for your inability to see the reason for someone else choosing a Palm may lie more in your prejudiced views than in the merits or failures of the device.
Re:Another PDA Whoopee!!!
on
PDAs, PDAs
·
· Score: 1
For the cost conscious, there are $150 Palm m105's.
For those of us willing to spend a *bit* more, there is quite a range of choices that still significantly undercut either PocketPC or Psion.
Remember- you seem to quite underestimate what the Palmcan do, so it's no wonder that you find the Palm too dear for it's function...
The PalmOS is almost primitive in it's appearance, but- guess what? It works well.
I do agree that Grafitti is no replacement for a good keyboard when entering text in bulk, but for that purpose I have a Go!Type keyboard.
Most of the time, though, I'm just entering a few words, and for that Graffiti is fine.
Chacun a son gout...
Re:Another PDA Whoopee!!!
on
PDAs, PDAs
·
· Score: 1
When I first found out that I would be getting a Palm Pilot (my girlfriend leaked it as a birthday present idea), my first response was "Whoopee! A new toy!- and that's all I expected to be doing with it.
It is now irreplaceable as a work tool.
Grafitti is impossible when you look at it, possible after 5 minutes, and useable after 10. After 2 years with my Palm, it's second nature.
Although I am drooling over the voice recording feature of the HandEra device, for quick notes I use a freeware scribbling program called DiddleBug. One press of the (reassigned) memo button, and it's up and displaying a new, blank sheet for me to jot the phone number or whatever.
I don't know what gave you the impression that Palms are only useful for tracking appointments. I use mine for scheduling/ contact management, sure; but also for email, drafting of letters, project management, budgeting/ shopping plans... whatever.
One of my colleagues has a Psion, and they are really nice devices; another has a PocketPC; but I'd trade neither for my palm.
As someone who is involved with the provision of free (non-computer related) public services, I disagree deeply with your position.
The only way you can forever avoid the issues that you say you fear Progeny will usher in, is for Linux to remain forever the province of the elitist hacker.
Furthermore, I disagree with your assertion that purchasers of Progeny should be excluded from participation in the Debian community. You can help who you choose, of course, but isn't that kind of hypocritical? You're either in this to help people, or you're not.
Indeed, if Progeny relies to a significant degree on community-based support to placate those who have purchased Progeny support, they will be a rapid and abysmal failure, and therefore an irritation only very briefly.
For all your evident genuine concern for the Debian community, I see your posts on this topic here as hypocritical elitism, exclusionary ideas with little logical basis. If Progeny wants to sell freely available community-based tech support, let them try. It's been done before, and it doesn't work. It doesn't sound to me like that's the plan, though.
If Progeny users want to frequent the lists, let them. As far as the structure of the software goes, there's no reason for them not to, and who knows? they might eventually be worthwhile contributors to the community.
Mind you, if they indulge in assholian or inappropriate behavior, they flame/ ignore/ correct/ redirect them; but PLEASE do so based on their behavior, not on the fact that they are Progeny users!
Actually, the name "Jeep" was around long before the GP-spec army vehicle- and the name was used to refer to a cartoon caracter, "Eugene the Jeep" which had offroad
Furthermore, "jeeps" were not known as "GP's", but as "half-tons", "four-by-fours", "rv's" (for reconaissance vehicles", and the like.
The task of sorting out the origins of the name is made more difficult by the corporate trademark disagreements involved...
I agree with most of what you are saying; however, it has NOTHING to do with the points made in the N.Y. Times article.
The article details the problems with current bureaucratic responses to the AIDS problem, and notes that Brazil turns upside down many previously held ideas about the range of possibilities available to developing countries.
The article has little to say about blaming capitalism or drug companies.
Yeah, yeah, I've read all the moderated-up bitching and complaining about how cyber-gaming doesn't translate to real-world skills.
However, after all the complaining is over and all the hot air that was spoken has risen, the fact is that little in the way of public entertainment has "real-world value".
Not baseball.
Not basketball.
Not WWF wrestling.
Actually, let's just toss out sports in general- the "real-world benefits" are infinitesimal.
The fact is, many enjoy playing FPS games, and there is a growing market for FPS's as a spectator sport.
I say this as someone who doesn't play regularly, though I had my time of QuakeFever.
It's easy to bitch about the uselessness of someone else's efforts, harder to get off your AC butt and show us with your actions what, to you, has "real world value".
Actually, that statement has been widely condemned in the international medical and scientific community as crass crrying for political favour.
It is unsupported by the current body of research, and as such was staggeringly irresponsible.
Slashdot Mirror
...which brings us, in satisfying circularity, to the point that the news article was in fact not specific; that it mentioned both minimal and extreme strategies to the end of assisting law enforcement; and that the statement or implication, "Yeah, we should do whatever the police want" is not a supportable one.
To reiterate my earlier implications:
- I take most stringent opposition to your earlier (perceived) implication that all avenues of perceived responsibility should be pressed, irregardless of assessment of validity.
- I take most stringent opposition to the idea that free e-mail should be abolished because criminals use it.
- I also disagree with the creation of odd and burdensome oppositions to obtaining ISP arrangements.
- I do, however, think that international cooperative agreements to honour criminal investigations are not only necessary, they are a no-brainer.
YES, Australian police should be able to discuss these issues with American providers.
YES, Australian police should be able to obtain cooperation once appropriate documentation, conforming to usual standards, is presented.
Furthermore, I don't think that anyone has been arguing these points.
Re-reading the discussion, it really just looks like many have been trying to point out that e-mail should be handled according to general principles, and not special, technophobic rules.
So, finally, I think that the discussion has to a great degree been to cross purposes; more multifaceted than you have been recognising, and likely with a greater foundation of agreement than anyone has been admitting.
We agree that accountability is important.
"I can see that you suspect I mean that "police powers" should be extended whenever possible but alas that isn't what I said."
What you said was "In the case of child pornograhpy accountability should be pressed in as many directions as possible."
I noted my disagreement with your point as presented. Accountability can, and is, often pressed in inappropriate directions. It is therefore simple to recognise that your statement as quoted is an incorrect oversimplification. We should in fact not press accountability in "as many directions as possible", but rather only in that subset of possible directions that are appropriate from both ethical and practical standpoints.
What do you think of Poptones' post on the issue? He and I don't always see eye-to-eye, but he speaks from the vantage point of one extremely well researched on these issues.
I should make a small distinction, with which you may agree:
I do not think that accountability should ever be pressed in as many directions as *possible*.
I do feel that accountability should be pressed in as many directions as *appropriate*.
Before expanding police powers, we should always be willing to ask whether the expansion in question is necessary and appropriate.
Have you asked those questions? On what basis do you extend answers?
Cheers...
If I have offended you, I regret having (inadvertently) done so. Far from having assumed anything about your post, I merely replied asking for clarification.
You deny being reactive, but your posts seem plenty reactive to me.
For the record, I myself have no opposition to the notion of ISP's and free e-mail providers cooperating with police investigations; to the extent that those quoted are merely calling for international streamlining of already-routine cooperation, I agree fully with it.
However, some in the article called for far more, and I am not sure that the necessity of more extreme measures has been appropriately discussed, nor that the costs have been appropriately considered.
If they have, and I have missed such discussion and consideration, please feel free to point me towards them- if you can manage to post.
cheers...
Have you researched child abuse?
/.'ers of engaging in a kneejerk reaction to your post. What can you offer to separate yourself from the crowd- to establish that your own post was itself not a kneejerk reaction?
Even sexual child abuse is not limited to paedophiles, in the same way that consumption of vegetables is not limited to vegetarians.
Much child abuse is committed by opportunistic predators, who will abuse anything that is available, and happen to find children to be easy prey.
Secondly, your post is vague. Exactly what are you supporting? Do you support the notion that free e-mail should be banned? If so, what do you have to substantiate the notion that such a ban would be worth the immense cost to non-criminals?
I note that you accuse your fellow
cheers...
I think that the point being made is that focussing on the adult film industry for transgressions that are common in other industries is itself misleading and wrong.
...with Handera/ Sony HiRes support!
I tossed AvantGo ages ago...
(Now all I want is PalmOS5 support... "work has been started", but when will it finish?)
Just checked the GPL- the commercial distributor has the obligation to
"offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange"
Yes, but this "availability of source" only applies to people to whom you have distributed the binaries- in his case, *paying customers.*
The PJB-100 is far superior, though far more expensive.
...and that's why I have these truck tyres on my bicycle...
Of *course* they're different- even though they're similar, like truck tyres and bicycle tyres. If you try to use the wrong ones for the job, you will suffer.
Or, to reshape your own analogy, like trying to carry around floorstanding component stereo speakers for use with my Rio MP3 Player.
What?
But it's the same technology!
Sheesh.
Ah, but true science only concerns itself with aspects of reality that can be measured...
the true scientific response to
"It's something you can't measure" may be "Well I don't care about it then" or "Well let me find a way to measure it"; but it can never be "Well then it doesn't exist"
Speaking as a doctor, the report you cite sounds much like humorous bullshit.
Can you please dig up that exact reference so I can read it too?
Look, the memory requirements for PalmOS and PocketPC are different enough that 8 MB is very much comparable to 32 MB in terms of basic functionality.
I also hate the stupid memory stick nonsense, but the screen on the device is supposed to be one of the best in the industry- driven by a dedicated video chip.
If you want that, you gotta pay!
When I say that the Psion and the Vx are not in direct competition, I mean that most of the people who are willing to spend the bucketloads of dollard that the Vx costs are spending those dollars for it because it is tiny.
"Also fairly small" is not going to satisfy them. The telling phrase there is "this is not an issue"... it may not be for you, but it is very much an important issue for many.
Indeed, a more important issue than memory and screen resolution for droves...
Trust me, I've been through this with prospective buyers.
You, my friend, are an exception.
I will grant you, however, that they are both handhelds and thus will be in competition to some degree!
I've read enough horror stories to agree that the plastic digitiser of the Palm m105 was probably a good idea, but I guess we've been lucky up to now- both screens are intact.
Again, though, I'll say- I'm able to see that the Psion is a sensible, valid choice, and I wonder why you cannot see why the choice of so many Palm aficionados (not only the blind fashion-followers!) might be a sensible choice also- for some...
Again, different strokes for different folks.
I assumed that you hadn't investigated the possibilities because you said that Palms were (can't remember the exact words) basically organisers, and that you wanted more function. As I know that such function exists, I assumed that you had not been exposed. Now I know that the functionality was simply not to your taste!
I hated QED myself, got SmartDoc, will soon switch to WordSmith for the formatting if the QuickOfice update doesn't come soon.
I have acquaintances who use Palms as one of the main access points to huge databases. (OK, expensive TRG Pro's, but still Palm OS devices)
I certainly am looking forward to having the memo recorder, but for now the bitmap note taker suits me just fine. The point is that it's quick! A friend of mine has a little Sharp voice memo device, and he is only marginally faster...
Why did you find the lack of a "proper" filesystem frustrating? If you wanted to fiddle, what prevented you from fiddling with the database structures and flags that the PalmOS uses? I have been called a geek myself, and what you describe sounds suspiciously like geeking only for the familiar!
I use the Go!Type keyboard, which is larger and bulkier than the newer folding one, but has the advantage of being *very* easily used on my lap. That's the place I usually rest it!
The Revo and the V/Vx are not real competitors, any more than Humvee and Porsche are. Perhaps that example is a bit exaggerated, but the Revo, while small and sleek, is much, much larger than the Vx. Indeed, the Vx had no real competitor until the introduction of the Visor Edge- those who wanted the advantages of the Vx had nowhere else to turn!
The advantage of having a keyboard separate from my device is that the device alone is smaller! So when I know I won't be using the keyboard, I don't have to travel with the extra bulk.
The Psion family of machines remains an excellent choice for many. When I was thinking of buying one for my girlfriend (who took longer to settle into Grafitti than I did, though she's fine with it now) it didn't seem to be worth (for her or me) the US$150 premium that it had then over a Palm IIIx.
So; I agree with you that Psion is an eminently sensible choice. I remind you, though, that the reason for your inability to see the reason for someone else choosing a Palm may lie more in your prejudiced views than in the merits or failures of the device.
For the cost conscious, there are $150 Palm m105's.
For those of us willing to spend a *bit* more, there is quite a range of choices that still significantly undercut either PocketPC or Psion.
Remember- you seem to quite underestimate what the Palmcan do, so it's no wonder that you find the Palm too dear for it's function...
The PalmOS is almost primitive in it's appearance, but- guess what? It works well.
I do agree that Grafitti is no replacement for a good keyboard when entering text in bulk, but for that purpose I have a Go!Type keyboard.
Most of the time, though, I'm just entering a few words, and for that Graffiti is fine.
Chacun a son gout...
When I first found out that I would be getting a Palm Pilot (my girlfriend leaked it as a birthday present idea), my first response was "Whoopee! A new toy!- and that's all I expected to be doing with it.
It is now irreplaceable as a work tool.
Grafitti is impossible when you look at it, possible after 5 minutes, and useable after 10. After 2 years with my Palm, it's second nature.
Although I am drooling over the voice recording feature of the HandEra device, for quick notes I use a freeware scribbling program called DiddleBug. One press of the (reassigned) memo button, and it's up and displaying a new, blank sheet for me to jot the phone number or whatever.
I don't know what gave you the impression that Palms are only useful for tracking appointments. I use mine for scheduling/ contact management, sure; but also for email, drafting of letters, project management, budgeting/ shopping plans... whatever.
One of my colleagues has a Psion, and they are really nice devices; another has a PocketPC; but I'd trade neither for my palm.
As someone who is involved with the provision of free (non-computer related) public services, I disagree deeply with your position.
The only way you can forever avoid the issues that you say you fear Progeny will usher in, is for Linux to remain forever the province of the elitist hacker.
Furthermore, I disagree with your assertion that purchasers of Progeny should be excluded from participation in the Debian community. You can help who you choose, of course, but isn't that kind of hypocritical? You're either in this to help people, or you're not.
Indeed, if Progeny relies to a significant degree on community-based support to placate those who have purchased Progeny support, they will be a rapid and abysmal failure, and therefore an irritation only very briefly.
For all your evident genuine concern for the Debian community, I see your posts on this topic here as hypocritical elitism, exclusionary ideas with little logical basis. If Progeny wants to sell freely available community-based tech support, let them try. It's been done before, and it doesn't work. It doesn't sound to me like that's the plan, though.
If Progeny users want to frequent the lists, let them. As far as the structure of the software goes, there's no reason for them not to, and who knows? they might eventually be worthwhile contributors to the community.
Mind you, if they indulge in assholian or inappropriate behavior, they flame/ ignore/ correct/ redirect them; but PLEASE do so based on their behavior, not on the fact that they are Progeny users!
Actually, the name "Jeep" was around long before the GP-spec army vehicle- and the name was used to refer to a cartoon caracter, "Eugene the Jeep" which had offroad
Furthermore, "jeeps" were not known as "GP's", but as "half-tons", "four-by-fours", "rv's" (for reconaissance vehicles", and the like.
The task of sorting out the origins of the name is made more difficult by the corporate trademark disagreements involved...
http://www.geocities.com/jeeptoys/history.htm
http://www.uselessknowledge.com/word/jeep.shtml
http://www.ifsja.org/tech/misc/jeepname.shtml
http://www.off-road.com/jeep/jeephist.html
http://www.seniortimes.com/sep98/Jeep.html
I agree with most of what you are saying; however, it has NOTHING to do with the points made in the N.Y. Times article.
The article details the problems with current bureaucratic responses to the AIDS problem, and notes that Brazil turns upside down many previously held ideas about the range of possibilities available to developing countries.
The article has little to say about blaming capitalism or drug companies.
Read before you post.
As a doctor- who loves what he does, and is convinced that it matters- I only wish that what you say were true.
Being convinced that your work is meaningless can be a great stressor, but being immersed in meaningful work is not necessarly stress-free!
Yeah, yeah, I've read all the moderated-up bitching and complaining about how cyber-gaming doesn't translate to real-world skills.
However, after all the complaining is over and all the hot air that was spoken has risen, the fact is that little in the way of public entertainment has "real-world value".
Not baseball.
Not basketball.
Not WWF wrestling.
Actually, let's just toss out sports in general- the "real-world benefits" are infinitesimal.
The fact is, many enjoy playing FPS games, and there is a growing market for FPS's as a spectator sport.
I say this as someone who doesn't play regularly, though I had my time of QuakeFever.
It's easy to bitch about the uselessness of someone else's efforts, harder to get off your AC butt and show us with your actions what, to you, has "real world value".
Actually, that statement has been widely condemned in the international medical and scientific community as crass crrying for political favour. It is unsupported by the current body of research, and as such was staggeringly irresponsible.
Actually, everyone I know who has had contact with TRG service (this includes me!) has found it to be excellent.
In contrast, accounts of Handspring service vary from adequate to nonexistent!