Posted by
michael
on from the with-maple-syrup-and-butter dept.
Aardappel writes: "PanQuake, a quake sourceport that allows a 360 degree panoramic view, has been released. Download it here."
134 comments
Re:round monitors?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1
No kidding, most people can't see 360 degrees? I never realized i was this lucky. Oops, gotta go, boss is coming up behind me...
Great...
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 3
...now I can wear my +3.50 diopter glasses and play Quake at 360 degree FOV and the two will cancel each other out resulting in normal gameplay! This mod is an optometrists dream come true! (Well, for optometrists that play Quake, anyway.)
That was back when there was a leaked copy of the quake 1 source code floating around that someone snarfed from crack.com. Since then the source code was officially released so everyone could mess around with it and re-releasing things without worrying about legal repercussions.
I think it would be much easier to go directly from the software models in Quake to an immersive display, rather than to go from PanQuake's rasterized 2-dimensional output to an immersive display.
-Paul Komarek
Re:Little Known DOOM Feature
by
Sludge
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· Score: 4
People are calling this a troll. It did exist. Id took it out after Doom 1.1 when modem multiplayer (sersetup) was added in 1.2. It was never put back in, and no explanation was given.
Get a copy of Doom 1.1 (I'm not sure if the original 1.0 had it) if you want to try this.
Or, join a q1 server with a second machine and spectate third person, 180 degrees inverted.
Re:Little Known DOOM Feature
by
Nugget94M
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· Score: 4
I did this only once. I made the terrible mistake of using a motley collection of machines to host each of the three views. My main "front" view was my screaming 486DX50 box, but the left and right views were "whatever else I had lying around". I actually nicked the two other monitors from my office for the evening. The unfortunate side effect was that the differing frame rates for the three views was a wonderful way to revisit my last meal after about 10 minutes of play. It was nausea-inducing to the highest degree.
Still very cool to see and be able to do, no matter how unplayable my setup turned out to be.
This reminds me of some M.C. Escher pictures
by
Kiwi
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· Score: 3
This reminds me of some M.C. Escher pictures--two come to mind.
One is the one with a lot of worms going up and down stairs
Another is what appears to be two views of the same scene (a kid on some steps looking up with a palm tree), but is really two cpoies of the same scene, one upside-down, using a panoramic view.
In both cases, M.C. Escher used a vertical, as opposed to horizontal, panorama.
- Sam
--
The secret to enjoying Slashdot is to realize that it should not be taken too seriously.
Re:This reminds me of some M.C. Escher pictures
by
ethereal
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· Score: 2
And this was flamebait how? Methinks the moderators are confused by playing too much 360-degree Quake.
Interesting thought - if you were reading/. in 360 degrees, could you theoretically see all the repeat story submissions at once, rather than only seeing the latest one, and thus know not to post a repeat? The mind boggles...
Caution: contents may be quarrelsome and meticulous!
First, please don't mod me down. This isn't a troll and I'm still way above the cap so i could give a shit about karma.
How could you build a device fairly inexpensively (assuming you've got an LCD projector -- assume you've got two if you really have to have two in the design) to turn PanQuake into something immersive? Think dirt cheap CAVE here. I guess you could probably easily rear- project fisheye quake onto a translucent hemisphere if you used 180 FOV.. something along those lines...
I considered that head-mounted displays with high FOV's would be a decent display device, but they are inconvenient, expensive, etc.
That something people have been doing lately. They have you stand at the middle projection screen shaped as a large cylinder, say 2 m high and 3 m radius. Then, using three LCD projectors, they'll back-project images of your surrounding onto the cylinder, shooting from the corners of an imaginary equilateral triangle.
The trick lie in pre-deforming the image such that the cylindrical projection warps them back into their original form. I figure ligning up the projectors might also be an issue.
-
-- This post was compiled with `% gec -O`. email me if you need the sources
I'd rather die from Quake than from a heart attack.
C-X C-S
Re:Playing Quake like this causing health problems
by
drac
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· Score: 1
Speaking as a doctor, the report you cite sounds much like humorous bullshit.
Can you please dig up that exact reference so I can read it too?
Re:Little Known DOOM Feature
by
ethereal
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· Score: 1
Yes, that was such a troll. Indeed. Mr. #67691, I don't know how you look at yourself in the morning after trolling all night like that. You should be ashamed of having to put a moderator to the trouble of marking you for the troll that you are.
:)
Caution: contents may be quarrelsome and meticulous!
that was in Redneck Rampage - 'cept it was likely the green label JD (bleah!).
-- .
Re:Had a little fun, got a little sick
by
paled
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· Score: 2
that is such a great hack.
Pick out a page on amihotornot.com and link to it.
watch the gullible/. readers think that its actually you in that photo WHILE posting setting hints (e.g.pfov=360).
but if it really is you - don't marry that other guy.;)
Quake's default projection makes high fovs look ugly. And you can't set the fov more than 180.
See this page for a comparison of standard Quake fov and the fisheye mod:
Well, could have been cooler
by
bolind
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· Score: 1
IIRC what he did was to set up a virtual windows desktop spanning five monitors, and then run Unreal in a window nearly maximized. This means no 3D-acceleration, and a crappy resolution.
He did fiddle with the settings so he could get the view rendered at five times the normal width, though.
It was a pretty cool hack, but it would have been nice with 3D-acceleration in a decent resolution on more than one monitor. I understand this is impossible as of right now.
"some people have mentioned using PanQuake to render onto hemispherical screen"
Actually, I wrote this guy when he released "Fisheye Quake", in asking whether it would work for such a system, like the Flostation - man, I want one of those baaad...
Actually, last night I got back my "el cheapo" Fujix P401 from Fuji (had to send it in to get it repaired) - anyhow, it works great (for the POS it is - but it was cheap enough, a video projector the size of a VHS tape, for $250!!!), and I have a VGA->TV converter, all I need now is to build the hemispherical hood, place it over me on one of those camp lounge chairs - cooool...
1. Get a large bounce ball, to use as a mold for the hemispherical screen - stretch white musilin or similar white gauzy material over it, then starch the shit out of it to stiffen it up. You might even try a light white spray paint or similar. Or, put plaster of paris over the whole thing, smooth it out with sandpaper, then get a piece of acrylic soft in the oven, and "drape" it over the mold. Let it cool, cut, shape, then have it lightly sandblasted to "frost" it.
2. Use one of those lightweight folding lounge camping chairs for your "neutral posture" system. You can pick these up for $20.00 at Walmart.
3. Mount Aura Bass Shakers to the chair - you could even strip some out of el-cheapo interactive Aura vests from Ebay. Just remember, you will need an amp for these things - if you use the vests, they already have a matched amp, so use it. But if you buy the shakers seperately, get a cheap 50 watt Pyramid car amp to drive the things.
4. Get a cheap projector and hook it up to project onto the hood, mounted to the chair. I have a Fujix P401, that I got cheap ($250), you can find them sometime on Ebay - you might have to build your own projector from an LCD TV and slide projector system to keep the cost below $500. You will also need a VGA->TV converter (or TV output on the video card) to hook up to the projector, unless you get lucky and your projecter has VGA or RGB inputs.
5. Hook up the bass shakers to amp and PC, hook the projector to the PC, split the sound output to some headphones, sit down, and fire up Fisheye Quake!
It can be done cheap - in fact, the Flostation site used to have pictures of the original prototype system - the projector was propped up on a board placed between two ladders! So, it can be done cheap, cheap, cheap!!!
If you wanted a system on which you could "stand" in front of, or sit down in front of, try building a curved frame from wood/plywood (look up info on solar cooking to find out how to easily make parbolic mirrors, so you can get the parabola shape), and stretch a white shower curtain across it for the front/back projection screen, or, if you are doing front projection only, use a white pull-down shade for the material...
Re:Playing Quake like this causing health problems
by
MessiahXI
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· Score: 1
I think you're all whiney babies... I practically majored in Quake (hence, I didn't graduate). No motion sickness or anything.... hours and hours and hours and hours
Re:Little Known DOOM Feature
by
QuantumG
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· Score: 1
I suppose you never went to a doom meet either.
-- How we know is more important than what we know.
Re:Little Known DOOM Feature
by
QuantumG
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· Score: 2
little known to whom? It was in the docs ffs.
-- How we know is more important than what we know.
Re:Playing Quake like this causing health problems
by
Aardappel
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· Score: 1
There's two different kind of dizzyness / motion sickness you can get from quake: immersion and camera motion.
You can get sick from "immersion" by playing on big screens (the more they cover the FOV of your eyes the better) coupled with *high* game FOVs, where fisheye projection helps to immerse you even more (because it gives less perspective distortion). I personally crave this kind of immersion and am used to it, but its not for everyone.
Alternatively you can get sick from "camera motion", which happens with either *low* game FOVs and/or low fps. It stops your eyes being able to smoothly track movement, high FOVs give you more context. It's like trying to run around in real life while looking through a zoomlens, you'll get very dizzy. Personally I suffer from this, I can't play games that don't allow FOV being changed from the default 90 (been used to 120 for 5 years now).
As a nice anecdote of how people don't understand what FOV does to you, I took part in a test as part of a psychology research from an unnamed university, where they investigated motion sickness and stability (how well you stand on your feet). In the test you had to stand in a black box, with in front of you a tv screen showing a video of someone running around with a handheld camera, meant to induce motion sickness. They had however shot the whole movie *using a zoomlens* giving a FOV of 20 or so. So their whole research was moot, as all motion sickness was induced by FOV rather than the actual movement. They weren't happy when I told them I think.
Um, read what it says. That was for quake 1.01 linux, which was, um, "going around the net" WAY before the GPL quake source was officially released. I used that to code fisheye quake for my personal enjoyment, and ported it over to the GPL release later.
For decent framerate on a <1GHz computer...
by
Uri
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· Score: 1
...I strongly recommend reducing the number of slices to something like 5. If your pride can let you, that is (it's not easy admitting to yourself that the top-end computer you bought last year, is now legacy... *sigh*).
I always thought that would be one of the coolest ideas for a Q3A mod. Escher-Quake.
I just pictured it with levels that do things like an Escher painting, and gravity would work so that if you ran up one of the sets of stairs, you'd find yourself then standing at like a 90-degree angle to everyone else.
Imagine playing and seeing someone else running along the ceiling!
Somehow, though, I suspect the game engine wouldn't exactly be very supportive of changing the game physics in such a strange way. If it is, someone please, code it up! I'd love to create some maps for it.:) ---
-- "You know your god is man-made when he hates all the same people you do."
Cool hack, but what's the framerate
by
trenton
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· Score: 2
I don't have Quake, and I didn't see any benchmarks for PanQuake on the site. I did see a link to Fisheye Quake, also written van Oortmerssen. Its faq says "so on this p200 I get 10fps", an unplayable framerate as far as first person shooters go. Yeah, a Pentium 200 is slow, but can PanQuake get 200+ fps, off a high-end machine, like a Athlon 1.4 GHz with a GeForce 2, like other versions of Quake?
Does anyone have benchmarks for PanQuake? Post them.
2001RC46
-- Too big to fail? Does that make me to small to succeed?
Re:Cool hack, but what's the framerate
by
Sc00ter
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· Score: 1
Why on gods green earth would you need 200+fps? There is NO need for that kind of framerate.. if you can see the difference between 200fps and 60 I'll be suprised.
Films run ad 24fps, TV runs at 30fps.. perhaps you could go a little faster.. but anything over that is a waste and the performance should be on making the shit on the screen look better.. not faster framerate.
And if you start talking about it going smoother or whatever that's because your shit computer can't do 30-60fps right and it's computing stuff.. it's dropping frames. And dropping frames at any speed will cause a skip and you'll probably notice some weird twitch. Just like you see shit for a split second when you're watching a movie and there's something on the film.
> Films run ad 24fps, TV runs at 30fps.. perhaps
> you could go a little faster.. but anything over
> that is a waste and the performance should be on
> making the shit on the screen look better.. not
> faster framerate.
Absolutely not! 60fps is a bare minimum, you really want 80fps or better from my own experiences. The lack of speed on TV or film framerates is easily visible any time something moves fatster than a snail's pace.
In fact, one of the last, silly things 3dfx did before dying was put in motion blurr to SIMULATE slower framerates of movies!!! God almighty, what a stupid thing.
Games keep ahead of the hardware curve and are constantly chugging away at 30fps or worse, providing maximum detail at the expense of framerate. Tribes 2 may be the worst offender in history in this regard. You really have to have a brutish system to do anything other than defend your own base using a heavy. 5 blocky fps when the shit hits the fan just won't cut it. It's too soon for my 450 MHz PIII + Voodoo 3 to make me into a hobo living in a cardboard box.
Anyway, 60 fps is noticeable, especially when turning rapidly. 80fps or better is much better. Most monitors now run 130+fps for up to 1024x768, so let's see some 3d cards keep up with that and keep the JND (just noticeable difference) well below even subconscious perception.
-- I am for the complete Trantorization of Earth.
Re:Cool hack, but what's the framerate
by
tb3
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· Score: 1
Simulator rides use two techniques: matching the motion of the ride to the motion in the film and play the film back at a high frame rate (somewhere between 60-70 fps).
The system was invented by Douglas Trumbull back in the seventies, when it was discovered that a faster framerate gave a heightened sense of reality. (I think IMAX films use a higher framerate, too, but I'm not sure.)
So, yeah if you want to trick the brain into believing it's 'real' a faster framerate will work. At least 60, but I don't know what the upper limit is. -----------------
Re:Playing Quake like this causing health problems
by
scorp888
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· Score: 1
This is true, playing Timesplitters on a 52" Tv, makes me feel Nauseous..
You do get over it though.
Re:Had a little fun, got a little sick
by
Johan+Veenstra
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· Score: 1
Yep, after playing quakeworld competitively for a long time, all the other 3d games seemed terribly slow.
I think, the original poster was referring to the Q1 single player game. I have to agree with him on that. Two month ago I played Q1 single player for the first time (I used to play several multiplayer mods), I finished the game in one try, without even coming close to dying.
Actually, the Serious Sam engine supports all the gravity strangeness that would be required to create a map that duplicates Relativity by Escher. There are only a few (mostly hidden) bits in the game that show off the engine's gravity capabilities, but you can get a *real* good sense of what those tricks can accomplish by opening a couple of the tutorial maps that come with the tools package. Very cool stuff. People on the SS Mapping forums have already been discussing making Escher maps.
When I first came across the hidden "fun with dynamic gravity" areas in the game, I literally shrieked with delight, as this was something I had always wanted to see in a game, but didn't expect to see for a while.
Servers, Good. Players, Excellent
by
Ted+V
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· Score: 2
We have maybe 3 Art of War servers up, which is enough for our current fan base. Putting up another server is fine with us, but I'd much rather just have a lot more people enjoy the mod. Tell your friends about Art of War.:)
A Little known DOOM feature let you start up games with -left and -right. Doing so would give you three different doom views, so you could view front, left side, and right side. This gave you 270 degrees of visuals with *zero* fisheye problems. Of course, it also required 3 computers and network synchronization between them. I think it was more John Carmack showing off than anything else. I think the game was somewhat less scary without 90 degrees of tunnel vision. Much cooler looking, however.
-Ted
Re:Little Known DOOM Feature
by
RoninM
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· Score: 1
Naturally, the presence of the information at Doom meets precludes it from being little known. Who hasn't been to a Doom meet?
-- If a corporation is a personhood, is owning stock slavery?
Re:Little Known DOOM Feature
by
donglekey
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· Score: 1
man, who rated that as a troll. Anyway, art of war rocks, need another server?
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Re:Playing Quake like this causing health problems
by
Borogove
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· Score: 1
I've found that a really good way of inducing motion sickness in FPS games is to play with a cordless mouse. These seem to transmit potion updates at a relatively low frequency - so if the game is refreshing the screen 60 times a second, but the mouse position is only being updated 25 times a second, and you are using the mouse to look and the keyboard to run, you will get continuous forward motion, with intermittent rotational motion. As a result, I can't play these sorts of games with a cordless mouse for very long. -- Andrem
Normally 3D graphics work by projecting the scene onto a flat plane: draw lines from the player's eye to objects in the virtual world, through a plane in front of the eye. If this line hits a blue object, paint the corresponding point on the plane blue. Cut out a rectangular portion of this plane and stick it on the computer screen.
A true panorama view works by projecting the scene onto a cylinder centered on the player, then unfolding this cylinder, cutting out a rectangular portion and sticking it on the screen.
Judging by the comments about 'slices' in the readme file, I'd say that this hack works by approximating the cylindrical projection using a number of tall, thin rectangles. This isn't totally accurate, but I suspect most graphic cards don't support true cylindrical projections.
Other projections are possible: if you project the scene onto a sphere, you can unfold part of the sphere onto the rectangular computer screen using the same techniques for drawing maps of the earth on flat paper...
Of course, if your computer screen isn't a flat rectangle then you can really have fun... some people have mentioned using PanQuake to render onto hemispherical screen: if you want to do this, you are best of working out the maths behind the whole projection (from 3d screen to 2d graphics card memory to projector back to 3d screen) and hacking the rendering engine to do the projection correctly. And then make sure you are sitting in exactly the right place to get the best view... -- Andrem
Hi all,
on the screenshot page, the third from above, what's the name of that level again? I played this on Zeki server for years, and loved it, but cant remember the name:-((
Please help, thanks!
--
This sig is stolen from someone who had a much better idea than I had.
3rd screen from the top is dm4 'the bad place' its one of the standard quake dm maps, personally i hate it:)
Re:Playing Quake like this causing health problems
by
OmegaDan
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· Score: 2
ahh the beauty of youth... when doom came out I played it *EVERY* night for 8 mos, for anywhere between 2 - 6 hours... never got sick, only got fat:) I think I was 15 or 16 then:) now that I'm 23, any more then an hour and I'm lying on the floor and the room is spinning.
Re:Playing Quake like this causing health problems
by
OmegaDan
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· Score: 3
I think its common knowledge that the refresh rate of your monitor and frame rate of your card have alot to do with "headaches, irritability and nausea" which I would call "motion sickness."
Antecdotal evidence... when quake2 came out I played it on my voodoo rush card which would get around 12 fps... It would take me about 30 mins to get sick with it... I got a riva zx card which could do about 25fps, and it now takes a couple hours for me to get sick:)
He he. Do we really need the larger brain load?
by
fractaltiger
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· Score: 1
So what makes them think my brain will track a single rocket-tooting bot at my back when there are 10 skilled LAN players in front of me? It'll add to the pressure of
"which one do I shoot first!!?"
and
"should I turn around or use up more health points to finish up this frag I'm workin' on?"
He he. Turn down the number of bots before you play this, at least
Actually, the game doesn't let you set it to more than 170, and 180 (and all beyond that) is mathematically impossible. As you get closer to 180, the texture pixels exactly at the edge of the 180 degree field would get closer and closer to taking up your entire screen.
--
The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer. --Henry Kissinger
Escher level already exists
by
loosenut
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· Score: 1
There was a deathmatch level for Ritual Entertainment's "Sin" called "Paradox" that had you shooting at your opponents on walls and ceilings. I can't seem to find any screenshots, unfortunately.
..in tribes. Got pretty good at it, too. Just set the FOV (field of vision) to 270 (or more). Very odd. Hard to move around without falling off of things. When others tried to play on my PC they usually got a sort of motion sickness. Very cool.
Excuse me, but how the fuck is the parent post "Offtopic"? He is talking about elements of Quake in reference to the new panaoramic rendering mod, for christsakes!
See, I always thought that getting the Pentagram of Protection or Quad, should do something trippy like this to your view. As if being god-like looks different... forces you to see the entire world at once.
How is this done? with 2 camera's, both rendering in 1 part of the screen (left and right, 2 viewports), one in front of you with a 180degrees pov using gluPerspective(180.0...) and one behind you ? or 4 camera's with 4 viewports next to eachother, with a POV of 90 degrees? (like you use when you're creating dynamic cubemaps). --
--
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
I believe with this mod you'll get quite a frame-rate hit, as your "potentially viewable set" of polygons basically increases at least 4-fold. Quite an interesting mod, however; and yet another feather in the cap of open-source.
--
Praying for the end of your wide-awake nightmare.
Re:New map with the download!
by
enneff
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· Score: 1
Pretty amazing, especially considering that.wad files were the map format for Doom.
Re:Had a little fun, got a little sick
by
enneff
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· Score: 1
"Quake 3 IS inherently faster than Quake 1. The game units have stayed pretty much the same size, but players can run faster"
Err, this simply is not true. I find it strange that you've said this, considering you've "looked at the code".
"and there's also strafe-jumping, where you can go up to 1.5 times faster than when you run"
Strafe-jumping originated in Quake1, and with skill you can reach huge speeds, even up to 3x (!!!) your normal running speed.
In Quake1, the rocket launcher is a) more powerful, and b) fires faster than the RL in Q3.
You forgot to mention the weapon changing speed of Q1 vs Q3, in Q3 there's a good half second between weapon changes, whereas in Q1 you can bounce someone off the ground into the air, and then pin them to the ceiling with the lightning gun, only to finally finish them off with a shotgun blast. (And yes, the good players do this more often than you'd think)
I think that perhaps you haven't really witnessed just how quick Q1 can get. Go and download a few competition demos in DM4 and you'll see just how insanely quick people can get around.
Re:Had a little fun, got a little sick
by
enneff
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· Score: 2
"By the way, has anyone else noticed after playing games like q3 the original quake just doesn't seem like much of a challenge at all!"
Substitute 'games like q3' with 'multiplayer' and
you're more on the ball. The reality is that if you played anyone half-good at Quake 1 they'd whip your sorry ass. Q1 is so much faster that I can't stand to play any of the later games. (CounterStrike is pretty quick at times, too, but it's a completely different game)
It's cool to see this done on a 2d display, but I bet its possible to set up a projector to display it on the inside of a globe-screen. It wouldn't be able to get the full 360 of course, but most people can't see 360 degrees anyway. Even if it was 360 degrees, it would look a whole lot less distorted on a curved surface...
I'd have a hard time getting used to the curvature. I think a rocket is going to miss me and suddenly it loops to the left and hits me square in the ass...
Nice sig. Did you realise that the name of the person who did this hack, "Aardappel", means potato? So who would be the steak?
-- Sig (appended to the end of comments I post, 54 chars)
Re:Had a little fun, got a little sick
by
.Maj
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· Score: 1
What sucked was how slow it ran though, quite a bit slower then q3 on my system (a AMD duron 600)
Try setting the slices variable lower. 8 still looks decent and runs much faster.
Re:Playing Quake like this causing health problems
by
harvardian
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· Score: 1
I don't think it's refresh rate as you say it may be. I've played Quake a lot of places, and no matter the refresh rate it still manages to give me a headache and make me dizzy pretty quickly. I think it's something more intgeral to the game itself. Still, I don't think that something is a de-synching of brain waves. I mean, I went through a good number of psych courses before switching to CS (and what a switch), and my dad's a shrink, so I've read a good deal of psychiatric literature. It just seems like such dubious logic, "well, they get headaches...and we see delta waves...which we know nothing really about...they must be the result of de-synching of bain waves." I thought delta waves were a good thing, since they're found in deep sleep. For all we know, Quake taps into and refreshes our brain with this weird sleep-like state and the headaches are just a result of the bright lights.
Also, one thing I learned from my psych courses: be very wary of what you're reading. A lot of studies are done by people looking to get fame or tenure, and so they make mild results sound more impressive so that they can get published.
Re:Playing Quake like this causing health problems
by
tcc
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· Score: 1
If you get nausea, it's because the graphics are good and your brain gets into it, I can live with that.
For added pukiness, try with 3D glasses, when you get the right stereo separation and cool depth (don't make the 3D come out of the monitor, make it go from the monitor to the back for the best stereoscopic experience), I have an asus GF2 board with the glasses, it rocks! even if I can't play for 30minutes without getting sick:)
-- ---
Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
Woh... Seriously trippy :)
by
elegant7x
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· Score: 1
You mean the "It's PotQuake" refrence? First of all, I didn't even see it untill just now. I don't normaly deal with the sub 2 rabble here unless it's a reply to one of my comments
"and dear god does this website suck now." -- CmdrTaco
Had a little fun, got a little sick
by
elegant7x
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· Score: 3
Yeh, yeh, I'm a looser, but I did feel a *wee* bit nauseous playing this at 360 (btw, don't forget to set the console variable pfov to 360, otherwise you only get a half-way panoramic view). But it was well worth it. What sucked was how slow it ran though, quite a bit slower then q3 on my system (a AMD duron 600)
By the way, has anyone else noticed after playing games like q3 the original quake just doesn't seem like much of a challenge at all! I mean the bad guys don't move around much at all, you've just got to circle strafe around them and leisurely blow them to bits:P
"and dear god does this website suck now." -- CmdrTaco
Re:Had a little fun, got a little sick
by
grammar+fascist
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· Score: 1
Q1 is so much faster that I can't stand to play any of the later games.
Eh? You're right about the multiplayer thing, but Quake 3 IS inherently faster than Quake 1. The game units have stayed pretty much the same size, but players can run faster (and there's also strafe-jumping, where you can go up to 1.5 times faster than when you run), jump higher (high enough to get over another player - try that in Quake 1), and shoot more rapid-fire weapons (machine gun, plasma gun, lightning gun, BFG). There's even a nearly-instagib hit-scan weapon (the railgun), which can frag players - almost as soon as they spawn in - from across the map. Lifts have been removed in favor of bounce pads and accelerator pads. The maps are arenas, designed for fast action and lots of gibs. One of the powerups is "haste," which makes you move 1.3 times faster (I looked at the code). The reaction most people have when they go from Q1 multiplayer straight to Q3 is "Wow, that's fast. How do you actually play it?" (That was the general consensus when we changed our lunch hour playtime from Q1 to Q3, anyway.)
Now, if you're talking about how fast your graphics card can RENDER it, that's another story. You can pick yourself up a Radeon 32MB DDR for around 80 bucks nowadays...
As soon as I got my first GL-capable card (Matrox M3D) I joined the GL bandwagon.
Some weeks later I started Quake in normal mode, not GL, and the 3d accellerator still made it so hellishly fast I was getting something on the order of 80fps, roughly what my monitor refresh rate was capable of.
Yes, I still had the huge pixels, but I noticed two things:
1. The lack of blurriness that GL adds as a "feature". It may smoothe things out, but it makes the scene feel less real. Fires and lights seemed much brighter too.
2. More importantly, the high speed made it seem not like a game, but like a window to another world (if a very blocky world.)
Now I've a much better machine, and can do very detailed scenes at 80+fps, but it just doesn't have the same effect.
The blurriness modern 3d cards provide as a feature actually detracts from the reality of the scene on a subconscious level. So to with the inferior lighting. The lights, fires, just don't seem anywhere as real as the pixelated torches in old Quake in non-GL mode.
> "By the way, has anyone else noticed after
> playing games like q3 the original quake just
> doesn't seem like much of a challenge at all!"
After playing Serious Sam single-player on Serious, none of those games seem a challenge anymore. Heck, I even managed two years ago to duplicate the QDQR-style slaughter of the lava god, if somewhat poorly, in 36 seconds.
> (and there's also strafe-jumping, where you can
> go up to 1.5 times faster than when you run),
This is that rabbit jumping crap, isn't it? That basically ruins things esthetically if you ask me. I mean, if you're chasing someone, if they're leaping all the time, they'll be slowed down because altering your gate to jump (and land, even more importantly) takes away from forward motion. Let's not even get into tiring out a magnitude more quickly, nor, as Serious Sam players quickly learn, the problem of you not being able to dodge while in the are so feet on the ground is of high importance.
Rocket jumping was a cool, unpredicted feature of Quake physics; strafe jumping was not.
-- I am for the complete Trantorization of Earth.
Re:Playing Quake like this causing health problems
by
elegant7x
·
· Score: 3
Actually, I think playing in a Cave environment would actually cause less problems the playing it on a flat big screen monitor. Since a cave is a true stereoscopic environment, the signals from the game wouldn't require any more processing then something like playing a game of football.
Of course, in real life you have *a lot* more sensorial ques as to what's going on. Whereas in these VR systems you're eyes are disagreeing with the rest of your body.
I played through the original shareware game with this, and I do feel a little nauseous:P. I think part of the problem was that I turned down the 'slices' the game uses, so that when I panned left or right I would get these 'wavy' effects. It was either that or low frame rates, which are also bothersome. And I wouldn't rule out interacting with a seriously weird visual environment as a cause either ^__^
But anyway, just about everything can have a deleterious effect on your health. If quake gives you painful headaches then don't play it. If it only causes a little irritation, then who cares? It's not like it's slowly killing you.
I would love trying this with a multi-monitor card. Maybe a G400 Dual Head and another card.
3 monitors should be enough to enjoy the panoramic view.
-- Think like a man of action, act like a man of thought.
Re:Playing Quake like this causing health problems
by
e_n_d_o
·
· Score: 4
Hey you in there... unlock that door right this minute!!! I know what you're doing in there... don't you know that'll make you go blind? --
Wouter is a strange little boy...
by
connorbd
·
· Score: 2
This is the same guy who made his name in what some of us call the Esoteric Languages world with an obfuscated Postscript-type language called False. It's pretty cool.
But wraparound Quake... I don't know. How does it work with one of those big triple monitors is what I want to know.
/Brian
Re:mulltiple projector system [redundant]
by
sydb
·
· Score: 1
Looking at the screen shots reminds me of Escher. All those wild angles. don't pan too fast it might make you sick! I think I would likely want to configure it so that the aspect ratio was a little wider. Maybe this would be suitable for the 3 panel Panasonic monitor that folks where going nuts over last year.
Wasn't there a FOV (field of view) command for Quake that would let you set > 90 degree angle?
I used to be in a CTF clan and there was some theoretical magical setup of that > 90 degrees so you could see more (not to mention other switches reducing visual quality until the pixels were the size of sheets of paper on the ground.)
Speaking of which, the network rate was tied to the frame rate, wasn't it? How can you alter that so I can have a go at that old game on the Internet again with machines that do 90 billion FPS?
I could do this because a while ago I got the source code for quake (linux, 1.01), which wasn't meant to be distributed though, so there is no way I can legally distribute the Linux fisheye quake, source, or binaries. Please don't even ask.
Erm, how about
ftp://ftp.idsoftware.com/idstuff/source/q1source.z ip?
Not to be confused with the below URL, which is the work of another language genius:)
http://www.blitzbasic.com/
--
http://www.blitzbasic.com/ Graphics3D 640, 480
big enough monitor? maybe...
by
Tigris666
·
· Score: 1
it might be good if you had a huge HUGE monitor, otherwise how ya gonna rail those bastards? its hard enough to aim that thing as it is, now everyone is gonna be like 2 pixels in size, try pinpointing that!
even harder with the keyboard, hahahahaha!
as if i dont cop enough rails in the back already, atleast i'll see them coming now... breifly...
-- Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try. -- Homer J. Simpson
Re:big enough monitor? maybe...
by
npongratz
·
· Score: 1
...otherwise how ya gonna rail those bastards?
It's gonna be damn hard . . . this is a q1 sourceport . . . q1 doesn't have the railgun that you find in q3a.
I think ... I'm gonna ... [brsphlphlph!]
by
tenzig_112
·
· Score: 1
As soon as I find a cylindrical monitor, I'm a sound as a pound! Nobody's gonna sneak up and frag me now!
Re:Playing Quake like this causing health problems
by
Verteiron
·
· Score: 2
Oddly enough, I frequently get a headache when playing various incarnations of Half-life on a 21" monitor that I've never gotten on a 17". But I think the problem was more glare-related than desynched brainwaves, because when I cut the lights in the room, the headaches went away...
I just installed this thing, and after 5 minutes of playtime, I started getting dizzy. I guess what the medics say is true, playing 3D games on a huge screen can cause some health troubles.
I gotta admit though, the thing is addicting.
Why bother with Pan when you can Fisheye?
by
jarodss
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· Score: 1
Take a look at the site in the story, it has a mod for fisheye, that looks like a highly useful tool for fraging behind you.
ok so it's a little blurry when someone comes up behind, but you can turn into the blur and blow them out of the water.
Re:multiple monitor unreal
by
ByteHog
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· Score: 1
That was it! thanks that was driving me nuts.
-- -
This isn't the sig you're looking for. Move along, move along..
Dear Mr. Coward;
Yes I am aware that people use Windows when they would like to use Linux. Infact I'm using Windows right now due to reasons beyond my control. I was just pointing out that it was a little suprising to see only 13% UNIX on a UNIX site. And most of the 4% or so that is unknown is probably Konqueror. I use the same stat page on my site and Konqueror doesn't identify itself. And only 80% of the hits are from the/. effect. Alltogether the stat raises to probably 20% UNIX. Though I can't be sure.
At least I don't post as an AC when I have something "Offtopic" to post.
What I find very interesting is two links away from the/.ed page is a page that has logs it's not a direct/.ing but still interesting. Only 11% of the people use Linux. And I do know I'll probably get modded offtopic for this so unless I post something releted to Quake. I'll try to think of something about Quake....
Has anyone tried the Fisheye Quake? It looks quite interesting only I tried it on my Win98 Box with Quake and now I'm in DLL hell. Can't find WDIRxxF.DLL. Anyway I'll see if I can get the other one working. Though on my cruddy Win98 box (or any of my boxen for that matter) it'll probably suck as It's just a Conpaq K6-II 380MHz with a 4Meg non-3d card.
Heh. Even distorted in this way, Quake 1 maps look so much cooler than Quake 3 maps.:)
Another strike against skill
by
lilmouse
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· Score: 1
I guess no one needs to pay attention to their surroundings anymore - if you can see behind you, why bother turning your head? Just don't join the Marines!
Re:Playing Quake like this causing health problems
by
SpeelingChekka
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· Score: 1
Myself, the refresh rate makes a huge difference. At a low refresh rate (e.g. 70 or less), I'll have a bad headache and eyestrain within 15 minutes of playing. At 75 Hz, maybe an hour. At 85 Hz or more, it takes at least three or four hours before I start to get a headache.
Of course, there are other reasons for the headaches too; I get similar headaches when watching several movies in a row, mainly from low blood pressure and inactivity. Also I need to go for another checkup at the optometrist.
Low frame rates (as opposed to screen refresh rates) also cause problems, your eyes/brain need to do more "work" to "fill in" the information missing between slow frames.
direct-to-brain sourceport
by
npongratz
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· Score: 1
I'd like to experience Quake without looking at a computer screen. Instead have some sort of EM ray exite part of my brain to directly control what I'm seeing. Heh, THEN let's try that panoramic view...see how long it takes me to ralph...
mulltiple projector system
by
mod+you+later
·
· Score: 1
my uni has a multiple projector system for system which encompasses your entire vision. now if only i could use it and install some software, a geforce 3 etc...
what i'm really amazed at is how they've managed to actually do this - it's essencially a curved lens effect, but any normal curved lens means that just drawing straight lines between vectors wouldn't actually join up correctly - instead you'd normally have to do scanline rendering. what it looks like here, is that they've divided up the screen into vertical strips and rendered these seperately and them stuck them back together maybe. i'm going to have another look at the screenshots - there's definately some angles that didn't exist in surfaces before...
i was angry:1 with:2 my:4 friend - i told:3 4 wrath:5, 4 5 did end.
--
i was angry:1 with:2 my:4 friend - i told:3 4 wrath:5, 4 5 did end. i was 1 2 4 foe i 3 it not 4 5 did grow
When I looked at "Relativity" by Escher, I thought that it would be bizarre if you modeled that scene as a quake map. It's actually possible, and I think that it's interesting, if not useful or fun for deathmatches:-).
There is a different Escher picture that is interesting to compare with the screenshot in the link: up and down. It's not excacty the same type of distortion. Actually, I'm quite suprised Escher never used that particular type of distortion, I guess it shows that the style of art he created is by no means exhausted.
-- xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
This is great if you don't find Quake to be hard enough already. For an additional challenge, the Jack Daniels mod can be found at http://yourlocaliquorstore.com.
Playing Quake like this causing health problems?
by
reposter
·
· Score: 4
I recently read some research (in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), but I can't find the article at the moment) which proved that some 3d game engines are potentially dangerous to health. The researchers reported that the dangers to health increase exponentially as the size of the screen on which the games is played increases.
The problem is to do with the way the game engine handle 3d images around the edge of the screen, and the way in which these images are processed by the brain. The researchers measured the EEG (electroencephalogram, "brain waves") of gamers whilst playing 3d games. The researchers noted that the EEG changed from its normal "beta" activity (characterised by 14-60Hz oscillations), and gained a low frequency component (delta waves, in the 0.5-2Hz range, which normally only occur during deep sleep).
The researchers attributed this change in brain activity to high frequency components in the rapidly changing images at the side of the screen in some 3d engines. The effect of these high frequency images on the gamer's peripheral vision caused desynchronisation of the gamers EEG rhythms, leading to headaches, irritability, nausea and (in the worse cases) epileptic attacks. The researchers found that these unfortunate side effects got considerably worse when the games were played on large screens.
My question is, will playing Quake on a huge screen like that in a CAVE be responsible for causing serious health problems in gamers?
Slashdot Mirror
No kidding, most people can't see 360 degrees? I never realized i was this lucky. Oops, gotta go, boss is coming up behind me...
...now I can wear my +3.50 diopter glasses and play Quake at 360 degree FOV and the two will cancel each other out resulting in normal gameplay! This mod is an optometrists dream come true! (Well, for optometrists that play Quake, anyway.)
That was back when there was a leaked copy of the quake 1 source code floating around that someone snarfed from crack.com. Since then the source code was officially released so everyone could mess around with it and re-releasing things without worrying about legal repercussions.
Then why are you wasting your time on here?
Which of the "open" quake versions was this made from?
:(
The source download only includes the changed files - Was this a recent OpenQuake, or one of the older original iD releases?
I'd like to compile this under Linux, but it's kinda hard w/o knowing which Quake source distro those files are from.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
If Escher played Quake, he'd play PanQuake.
-Paul Komarek
I think it would be much easier to go directly from the software models in Quake to an immersive display, rather than to go from PanQuake's rasterized 2-dimensional output to an immersive display.
-Paul Komarek
People are calling this a troll. It did exist. Id took it out after Doom 1.1 when modem multiplayer (sersetup) was added in 1.2. It was never put back in, and no explanation was given.
Get a copy of Doom 1.1 (I'm not sure if the original 1.0 had it) if you want to try this.
Or, join a q1 server with a second machine and spectate third person, 180 degrees inverted.
I did this only once. I made the terrible mistake of using a motley collection of machines to host each of the three views. My main "front" view was my screaming 486DX50 box, but the left and right views were "whatever else I had lying around". I actually nicked the two other monitors from my office for the evening. The unfortunate side effect was that the differing frame rates for the three views was a wonderful way to revisit my last meal after about 10 minutes of play. It was nausea-inducing to the highest degree.
Still very cool to see and be able to do, no matter how unplayable my setup turned out to be.
One is the one with a lot of worms going up and down stairs
Another is what appears to be two views of the same scene (a kid on some steps looking up with a palm tree), but is really two cpoies of the same scene, one upside-down, using a panoramic view.
In both cases, M.C. Escher used a vertical, as opposed to horizontal, panorama.
- Sam
The secret to enjoying Slashdot is to realize that it should not be taken too seriously.
I believe the monitor in question is
http://www.panoramtech.com/pv290dsk.htm
Its Price $22,750
Good god. I get ill just looking at the still shots!
--
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
I think they took those switches out in later versions. (I think everything after 1.666)
-- Thrakkerzog
Quite possibly twice before, I was talking to a friend about 'this thing I saw in a slashdot post ages ago' at lunch :)
Believe with me, my saplings.
Zamfir, master of the PanQuake?
First, please don't mod me down. This isn't a troll and I'm still way above the cap so i could give a shit about karma.
How could you build a device fairly inexpensively (assuming you've got an LCD projector -- assume you've got two if you really have to have two in the design) to turn PanQuake into something immersive? Think dirt cheap CAVE here. I guess you could probably easily rear- project fisheye quake onto a translucent hemisphere if you used 180 FOV.. something along those lines...
I considered that head-mounted displays with high FOV's would be a decent display device, but they are inconvenient, expensive, etc.
~GoRK
Quake done Quick (with a vengeance) - Speed run through all of Quake I with nightmare skill in 12 minutes and 23 seconds!
I will be seriously impressed if you can....
--
Slashdot didn't accept your submission? hackerheaven.org will!
I'd rather die from Quake than from a heart attack.
C-X C-S
Speaking as a doctor, the report you cite sounds much like humorous bullshit.
Can you please dig up that exact reference so I can read it too?
Yes, that was such a troll. Indeed. Mr. #67691, I don't know how you look at yourself in the morning after trolling all night like that. You should be ashamed of having to put a moderator to the trouble of marking you for the troll that you are.
:)
Caution: contents may be quarrelsome and meticulous!
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
Can you imagine what it's like to try to aim like this? Try setting the FOV to 180 (I run 120) and see how much more difficult targeting is!
that was in Redneck Rampage - 'cept it was likely the green label JD (bleah!).
.
that is such a great hack. /. readers think that its actually you in that photo WHILE posting setting hints (e.g.pfov=360).
;)
Pick out a page on amihotornot.com and link to it.
watch the gullible
but if it really is you - don't marry that other guy.
.
We're geeks, we don't need no stinking reason/point.
Now this IS fun, start it up and turn while standing still in a room with alot of doors.
It's a frickin slide show that never ends :) God am I now disoriented, maybe I'll take up smoking weed, It seems perfectly suited for this.
Then again maybe not, but this is really hard to aim with the keyboard, the guys are now 20 pixels wide, have fun hitting them.
Quake just got funner.
I got nauseous from the discussion alone. I don't want to have to get a plastic cover for my keyboard just to play.
Quake's default projection makes high fovs look ugly. And you can't set the fov more than 180.
o mpare.html
See this page for a comparison of standard Quake fov and the fisheye mod:
http://wouter.fov120.com/gfxengine/fisheyequake/c
Y.
IIRC what he did was to set up a virtual windows desktop spanning five monitors, and then run Unreal in a window nearly maximized. This means no 3D-acceleration, and a crappy resolution.
He did fiddle with the settings so he could get the view rendered at five times the normal width, though.
It was a pretty cool hack, but it would have been nice with 3D-acceleration in a decent resolution on more than one monitor. I understand this is impossible as of right now.
Wow, this is cool, but it doesn't seem that practical. I mean, did they decide that not enough people got seasick playing Quake notmally?
"some people have mentioned using PanQuake to render onto hemispherical screen"
Actually, I wrote this guy when he released "Fisheye Quake", in asking whether it would work for such a system, like the Flostation - man, I want one of those baaad...
Actually, last night I got back my "el cheapo" Fujix P401 from Fuji (had to send it in to get it repaired) - anyhow, it works great (for the POS it is - but it was cheap enough, a video projector the size of a VHS tape, for $250!!!), and I have a VGA->TV converter, all I need now is to build the hemispherical hood, place it over me on one of those camp lounge chairs - cooool...
Worldcom - Generation Duh!
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
...this, then think how you can do it dirt cheap:
1. Get a large bounce ball, to use as a mold for the hemispherical screen - stretch white musilin or similar white gauzy material over it, then starch the shit out of it to stiffen it up. You might even try a light white spray paint or similar. Or, put plaster of paris over the whole thing, smooth it out with sandpaper, then get a piece of acrylic soft in the oven, and "drape" it over the mold. Let it cool, cut, shape, then have it lightly sandblasted to "frost" it.
2. Use one of those lightweight folding lounge camping chairs for your "neutral posture" system. You can pick these up for $20.00 at Walmart.
3. Mount Aura Bass Shakers to the chair - you could even strip some out of el-cheapo interactive Aura vests from Ebay. Just remember, you will need an amp for these things - if you use the vests, they already have a matched amp, so use it. But if you buy the shakers seperately, get a cheap 50 watt Pyramid car amp to drive the things.
4. Get a cheap projector and hook it up to project onto the hood, mounted to the chair. I have a Fujix P401, that I got cheap ($250), you can find them sometime on Ebay - you might have to build your own projector from an LCD TV and slide projector system to keep the cost below $500. You will also need a VGA->TV converter (or TV output on the video card) to hook up to the projector, unless you get lucky and your projecter has VGA or RGB inputs.
5. Hook up the bass shakers to amp and PC, hook the projector to the PC, split the sound output to some headphones, sit down, and fire up Fisheye Quake!
It can be done cheap - in fact, the Flostation site used to have pictures of the original prototype system - the projector was propped up on a board placed between two ladders! So, it can be done cheap, cheap, cheap!!!
If you wanted a system on which you could "stand" in front of, or sit down in front of, try building a curved frame from wood/plywood (look up info on solar cooking to find out how to easily make parbolic mirrors, so you can get the parabola shape), and stretch a white shower curtain across it for the front/back projection screen, or, if you are doing front projection only, use a white pull-down shade for the material...
Worldcom - Generation Duh!
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
I think you're all whiney babies... I practically majored in Quake (hence, I didn't graduate). No motion sickness or anything.... hours and hours and hours and hours
I suppose you never went to a doom meet either.
How we know is more important than what we know.
little known to whom? It was in the docs ffs.
How we know is more important than what we know.
There's two different kind of dizzyness / motion sickness you can get from quake: immersion and camera motion.
You can get sick from "immersion" by playing on big screens (the more they cover the FOV of your eyes the better) coupled with *high* game FOVs, where fisheye projection helps to immerse you even more (because it gives less perspective distortion). I personally crave this kind of immersion and am used to it, but its not for everyone.
Alternatively you can get sick from "camera motion", which happens with either *low* game FOVs and/or low fps. It stops your eyes being able to smoothly track movement, high FOVs give you more context. It's like trying to run around in real life while looking through a zoomlens, you'll get very dizzy. Personally I suffer from this, I can't play games that don't allow FOV being changed from the default 90 (been used to 120 for 5 years now).
As a nice anecdote of how people don't understand what FOV does to you, I took part in a test as part of a psychology research from an unnamed university, where they investigated motion sickness and stability (how well you stand on your feet). In the test you had to stand in a black box, with in front of you a tv screen showing a video of someone running around with a handheld camera, meant to induce motion sickness. They had however shot the whole movie *using a zoomlens* giving a FOV of 20 or so. So their whole research was moot, as all motion sickness was induced by FOV rather than the actual movement. They weren't happy when I told them I think.
Um, read what it says. That was for quake 1.01 linux, which was, um, "going around the net" WAY before the GPL quake source was officially released. I used that to code fisheye quake for my personal enjoyment, and ported it over to the GPL release later.
...I strongly recommend reducing the number of slices to something like 5. If your pride can let you, that is (it's not easy admitting to yourself that the top-end computer you bought last year, is now legacy... *sigh*).
So, how long until this gets integrated into QuakeForge?
------
I always thought that would be one of the coolest ideas for a Q3A mod. Escher-Quake.
:)
I just pictured it with levels that do things like an Escher painting, and gravity would work so that if you ran up one of the sets of stairs, you'd find yourself then standing at like a 90-degree angle to everyone else.
Imagine playing and seeing someone else running along the ceiling!
Somehow, though, I suspect the game engine wouldn't exactly be very supportive of changing the game physics in such a strange way. If it is, someone please, code it up! I'd love to create some maps for it.
---
"You know your god is man-made when he hates all the same people you do."
Does anyone have benchmarks for PanQuake? Post them.
2001RC46
Too big to fail? Does that make me to small to succeed?
This is true, playing Timesplitters on a 52" Tv, makes me feel Nauseous..
You do get over it though.
Yep, after playing quakeworld competitively for a long time, all the other 3d games seemed terribly slow.
I think, the original poster was referring to the Q1 single player game. I have to agree with him on that. Two month ago I played Q1 single player for the first time (I used to play several multiplayer mods), I finished the game in one try, without even coming close to dying.
Johan V.
Actually, the Serious Sam engine supports all the gravity strangeness that would be required to create a map that duplicates Relativity by Escher. There are only a few (mostly hidden) bits in the game that show off the engine's gravity capabilities, but you can get a *real* good sense of what those tricks can accomplish by opening a couple of the tutorial maps that come with the tools package. Very cool stuff. People on the SS Mapping forums have already been discussing making Escher maps.
When I first came across the hidden "fun with dynamic gravity" areas in the game, I literally shrieked with delight, as this was something I had always wanted to see in a game, but didn't expect to see for a while.
We have maybe 3 Art of War servers up, which is enough for our current fan base. Putting up another server is fine with us, but I'd much rather just have a lot more people enjoy the mod. Tell your friends about Art of War. :)
-Ted
A Little known DOOM feature let you start up games with -left and -right. Doing so would give you three different doom views, so you could view front, left side, and right side. This gave you 270 degrees of visuals with *zero* fisheye problems. Of course, it also required 3 computers and network synchronization between them. I think it was more John Carmack showing off than anything else. I think the game was somewhat less scary without 90 degrees of tunnel vision. Much cooler looking, however.
-Ted
HAHA who needs drugs when we got this now :)
Rockon PANQUAKE... now where is my PAN Counter-STRIKE!!!
But you STILL can't have my 25" monitor!
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I've found that a really good way of inducing motion sickness in FPS games is to play with a cordless mouse. These seem to transmit potion updates at a relatively low frequency - so if the game is refreshing the screen 60 times a second, but the mouse position is only being updated 25 times a second, and you are using the mouse to look and the keyboard to run, you will get continuous forward motion, with intermittent rotational motion. As a result, I can't play these sorts of games with a cordless mouse for very long.
-- Andrem
There has been a major scientific break-in
Normally 3D graphics work by projecting the scene onto a flat plane: draw lines from the player's eye to objects in the virtual world, through a plane in front of the eye. If this line hits a blue object, paint the corresponding point on the plane blue. Cut out a rectangular portion of this plane and stick it on the computer screen.
A true panorama view works by projecting the scene onto a cylinder centered on the player, then unfolding this cylinder, cutting out a rectangular portion and sticking it on the screen.
Judging by the comments about 'slices' in the readme file, I'd say that this hack works by approximating the cylindrical projection using a number of tall, thin rectangles. This isn't totally accurate, but I suspect most graphic cards don't support true cylindrical projections.
Other projections are possible: if you project the scene onto a sphere, you can unfold part of the sphere onto the rectangular computer screen using the same techniques for drawing maps of the earth on flat paper...
Of course, if your computer screen isn't a flat rectangle then you can really have fun... some people have mentioned using PanQuake to render onto hemispherical screen: if you want to do this, you are best of working out the maths behind the whole projection (from 3d screen to 2d graphics card memory to projector back to 3d screen) and hacking the rendering engine to do the projection correctly. And then make sure you are sitting in exactly the right place to get the best view...
-- Andrem
There has been a major scientific break-in
Hi all, on the screenshot page, the third from above, what's the name of that level again? I played this on Zeki server for years, and loved it, but cant remember the name :-((
Please help, thanks!
This sig is stolen from someone who had a much better idea than I had.
ahh the beauty of youth ... when doom came out I played it *EVERY* night for 8 mos, for anywhere between 2 - 6 hours ... never got sick, only got fat :) I think I was 15 or 16 then :) now that I'm 23, any more then an hour and I'm lying on the floor and the room is spinning.
Free Techno/Jazz/DNB/MI Music by guys obsessed with monkeys!
Antecdotal evidence ... when quake2 came out I played it on my voodoo rush card which would get around 12 fps ... It would take me about 30 mins to get sick with it ... I got a riva zx card which could do about 25fps, and it now takes a couple hours for me to get sick :)
Free Techno/Jazz/DNB/MI Music by guys obsessed with monkeys!
zDoom adds looking up and down (Duke-Style) as well as jumping...
:)
Get it here: http://zdoom.notgod.com/
I've tried the -left and -right features ages ago... it works quite well besides for the slight lag.
:)
It's quite a lot slower than normal glquake... even in a low-res mode.
Wonder why so much slower.
How is this different from normal Quake "fov" command set to max?
-ponder-
Probably from Multi-Head Gaming, as seen previously on ./
So what makes them think my brain will track a single rocket-tooting bot at my back when there are 10 skilled LAN players in front of me? It'll add to the pressure of
"which one do I shoot first!!?"
and
"should I turn around or use up more health points to finish up this frag I'm workin' on?"
He he. Turn down the number of bots before you play this, at least
"Wireless : LAN
Actually, the game doesn't let you set it to more than 170, and 180 (and all beyond that) is mathematically impossible. As you get closer to 180, the texture pixels exactly at the edge of the 180 degree field would get closer and closer to taking up your entire screen.
The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
--Henry Kissinger
There was a deathmatch level for Ritual Entertainment's "Sin" called "Paradox" that had you shooting at your opponents on walls and ceilings. I can't seem to find any screenshots, unfortunately.
You can type "fov" and a number in the q1 console, but anything past fov 120 is too distorted to be playable.
Looks cool - definitely wouldn't hurt to widen your field of view. Just as long as you don't get fragged while you're busy looking around ;)
--
Sinepaw.org: Grape Winos
I want that for Flight Simulator. Flying with a small field of view is miserable.
..in tribes. Got pretty good at it, too. Just set the FOV (field of vision) to 270 (or more). Very odd. Hard to move around without falling off of things. When others tried to play on my PC they usually got a sort of motion sickness. Very cool.
Excuse me, but how the fuck is the parent post "Offtopic"? He is talking about elements of Quake in reference to the new panaoramic rendering mod, for christsakes!
The moderators must be smoking crack again.
See, I always thought that getting the Pentagram of Protection or Quad, should do something trippy like this to your view. As if being god-like looks different... forces you to see the entire world at once.
How is this done? with 2 camera's, both rendering in 1 part of the screen (left and right, 2 viewports), one in front of you with a 180degrees pov using gluPerspective(180.0 ...) and one behind you ? or 4 camera's with 4 viewports next to eachother, with a POV of 90 degrees? (like you use when you're creating dynamic cubemaps).
--
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
I believe with this mod you'll get quite a frame-rate hit, as your "potentially viewable set" of polygons basically increases at least 4-fold. Quite an interesting mod, however; and yet another feather in the cap of open-source.
Praying for the end of your wide-awake nightmare.
Pretty amazing, especially considering that .wad files were the map format for Doom.
"Quake 3 IS inherently faster than Quake 1. The game units have stayed pretty much the same size, but players can run faster"
Err, this simply is not true. I find it strange that you've said this, considering you've "looked at the code".
"and there's also strafe-jumping, where you can go up to 1.5 times faster than when you run"
Strafe-jumping originated in Quake1, and with skill you can reach huge speeds, even up to 3x (!!!) your normal running speed.
"shoot more rapid-fire weapons (machine gun, plasma gun, lightning gun, BFG)."
In Quake1, the rocket launcher is a) more powerful, and b) fires faster than the RL in Q3.
You forgot to mention the weapon changing speed of Q1 vs Q3, in Q3 there's a good half second between weapon changes, whereas in Q1 you can bounce someone off the ground into the air, and then pin them to the ceiling with the lightning gun, only to finally finish them off with a shotgun blast. (And yes, the good players do this more often than you'd think)
I think that perhaps you haven't really witnessed just how quick Q1 can get. Go and download a few competition demos in DM4 and you'll see just how insanely quick people can get around.
Substitute 'games like q3' with 'multiplayer' and you're more on the ball. The reality is that if you played anyone half-good at Quake 1 they'd whip your sorry ass. Q1 is so much faster that I can't stand to play any of the later games. (CounterStrike is pretty quick at times, too, but it's a completely different game)
It's cool to see this done on a 2d display, but I bet its possible to set up a projector to display it on the inside of a globe-screen. It wouldn't be able to get the full 360 of course, but most people can't see 360 degrees anyway. Even if it was 360 degrees, it would look a whole lot less distorted on a curved surface...
Just my $.02
This could be interesting for certain mods...
Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.
I don't think it's refresh rate as you say it may be. I've played Quake a lot of places, and no matter the refresh rate it still manages to give me a headache and make me dizzy pretty quickly. I think it's something more intgeral to the game itself. Still, I don't think that something is a de-synching of brain waves. I mean, I went through a good number of psych courses before switching to CS (and what a switch), and my dad's a shrink, so I've read a good deal of psychiatric literature. It just seems like such dubious logic, "well, they get headaches...and we see delta waves...which we know nothing really about...they must be the result of de-synching of bain waves." I thought delta waves were a good thing, since they're found in deep sleep. For all we know, Quake taps into and refreshes our brain with this weird sleep-like state and the headaches are just a result of the bright lights.
Also, one thing I learned from my psych courses: be very wary of what you're reading. A lot of studies are done by people looking to get fame or tenure, and so they make mild results sound more impressive so that they can get published.
If you get nausea, it's because the graphics are good and your brain gets into it, I can live with that.
:)
For added pukiness, try with 3D glasses, when you get the right stereo separation and cool depth (don't make the 3D come out of the monitor, make it go from the monitor to the back for the best stereoscopic experience), I have an asus GF2 board with the glasses, it rocks! even if I can't play for 30minutes without getting sick
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
PanQuake: Best when played on acid.
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"and dear god does this website suck now." -- CmdrTaco
You mean the "It's PotQuake" refrence? First of all, I didn't even see it untill just now. I don't normaly deal with the sub 2 rabble here unless it's a reply to one of my comments
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"and dear god does this website suck now." -- CmdrTaco
http://wouter.fov120.com/gfxengine/fisheyequake/
It's done by the same guy, but on a spherical geometry rather then a cylindrical one like Pan Quake.
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"and dear god does this website suck now." -- CmdrTaco
Yeh, yeh, I'm a looser, but I did feel a *wee* bit nauseous playing this at 360 (btw, don't forget to set the console variable pfov to 360, otherwise you only get a half-way panoramic view). But it was well worth it. What sucked was how slow it ran though, quite a bit slower then q3 on my system (a AMD duron 600)
:P
By the way, has anyone else noticed after playing games like q3 the original quake just doesn't seem like much of a challenge at all! I mean the bad guys don't move around much at all, you've just got to circle strafe around them and leisurely blow them to bits
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"and dear god does this website suck now." -- CmdrTaco
Actually, I think playing in a Cave environment would actually cause less problems the playing it on a flat big screen monitor. Since a cave is a true stereoscopic environment, the signals from the game wouldn't require any more processing then something like playing a game of football.
:P. I think part of the problem was that I turned down the 'slices' the game uses, so that when I panned left or right I would get these 'wavy' effects. It was either that or low frame rates, which are also bothersome. And I wouldn't rule out interacting with a seriously weird visual environment as a cause either ^__^
Of course, in real life you have *a lot* more sensorial ques as to what's going on. Whereas in these VR systems you're eyes are disagreeing with the rest of your body.
I played through the original shareware game with this, and I do feel a little nauseous
But anyway, just about everything can have a deleterious effect on your health. If quake gives you painful headaches then don't play it. If it only causes a little irritation, then who cares? It's not like it's slowly killing you.
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"and dear god does this website suck now." -- CmdrTaco
I would love trying this with a multi-monitor card. Maybe a G400 Dual Head and another card. 3 monitors should be enough to enjoy the panoramic view.
Think like a man of action, act like a man of thought.
Hey you in there... unlock that door right this minute!!! I know what you're doing in there... don't you know that'll make you go blind?
--
This is the same guy who made his name in what some of us call the Esoteric Languages world with an obfuscated Postscript-type language called False. It's pretty cool.
But wraparound Quake... I don't know. How does it work with one of those big triple monitors is what I want to know.
/Brian
Yeah, well it does say that on their web page...
Yours Sincerely, Michael.
Isn't that Quake 1? What's up with the Quake III logo? (By the way, why didn't they mod Quake III?)
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
Check out the Vinny the Vampire comic strip
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Yep, you're right. I had only had 3 cups of coffee when I read it.
Sorry all
I could do this because a while ago I got the source code for quake (linux, 1.01), which wasn't meant to be distributed though, so there is no way I can legally distribute the Linux fisheye quake, source, or binaries. Please don't even ask.
Erm, how aboutz ip?
ftp://ftp.idsoftware.com/idstuff/source/q1source.
"just connect this to..."
BZZT.
Liberty.
Check out his website -- hit the first link about languages he's designed and be VERY impressed!
Aardappel's site's here...
Not to be confused with the below URL, which is the work of another language genius :)
http://www.blitzbasic.com/
http://www.blitzbasic.com/
Graphics3D 640, 480
it might be good if you had a huge HUGE monitor, otherwise how ya gonna rail those bastards? its hard enough to aim that thing as it is, now everyone is gonna be like 2 pixels in size, try pinpointing that!
even harder with the keyboard, hahahahaha!
as if i dont cop enough rails in the back already, atleast i'll see them coming now... breifly...
Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try. -- Homer J. Simpson
Froget Mercator projection, download Peters Projection Quake today!
Oddly enough, I frequently get a headache when playing various incarnations of Half-life on a 21" monitor that I've never gotten on a 17". But I think the problem was more glare-related than desynched brainwaves, because when I cut the lights in the room, the headaches went away...
End of lesson. You may press the button.
I just installed this thing, and after 5 minutes of playtime, I started getting dizzy. I guess what the medics say is true, playing 3D games on a huge screen can cause some health troubles. I gotta admit though, the thing is addicting.
Take a look at the site in the story, it has a mod for fisheye, that looks like a highly useful tool for fraging behind you.
ok so it's a little blurry when someone comes up behind, but you can turn into the blur and blow them out of the water.
That was it! thanks that was driving me nuts.
- This isn't the sig you're looking for. Move along, move along..
I found this picture, but for the life of me, i cannot remember where the website was. Unreal on 5 monitors!! cool!!
- This isn't the sig you're looking for. Move along, move along..
Dear Mr. Coward; /. effect. Alltogether the stat raises to probably 20% UNIX. Though I can't be sure.
Yes I am aware that people use Windows when they would like to use Linux. Infact I'm using Windows right now due to reasons beyond my control. I was just pointing out that it was a little suprising to see only 13% UNIX on a UNIX site. And most of the 4% or so that is unknown is probably Konqueror. I use the same stat page on my site and Konqueror doesn't identify itself. And only 80% of the hits are from the
At least I don't post as an AC when I have something "Offtopic" to post.
--Volrath50
What I find very interesting is two links away from the /.ed page is a page that has logs it's not a direct /.ing but still interesting. Only 11% of the people use Linux. And I do know I'll probably get modded offtopic for this so unless I post something releted to Quake. I'll try to think of something about Quake....
Has anyone tried the Fisheye Quake? It looks quite interesting only I tried it on my Win98 Box with Quake and now I'm in DLL hell. Can't find WDIRxxF.DLL. Anyway I'll see if I can get the other one working. Though on my cruddy Win98 box (or any of my boxen for that matter) it'll probably suck as It's just a Conpaq K6-II 380MHz with a 4Meg non-3d card.
--Volrath50
Nice op-art effects by Aardappel.
:)
Heh. Even distorted in this way, Quake 1 maps look so much cooler than Quake 3 maps.
"But I didn't see him coming!"
"He was behind you©©©"
"But I didn't see him coming!"
©©©
Myself, the refresh rate makes a huge difference. At a low refresh rate (e.g. 70 or less), I'll have a bad headache and eyestrain within 15 minutes of playing. At 75 Hz, maybe an hour. At 85 Hz or more, it takes at least three or four hours before I start to get a headache.
Of course, there are other reasons for the headaches too; I get similar headaches when watching several movies in a row, mainly from low blood pressure and inactivity. Also I need to go for another checkup at the optometrist.
Low frame rates (as opposed to screen refresh rates) also cause problems, your eyes/brain need to do more "work" to "fill in" the information missing between slow frames.
I'd like to experience Quake without looking at a computer screen. Instead have some sort of EM ray exite part of my brain to directly control what I'm seeing. Heh, THEN let's try that panoramic view...see how long it takes me to ralph...
my uni has a multiple projector system for system which encompasses your entire vision. now if only i could use it and install some software, a geforce 3 etc...
what i'm really amazed at is how they've managed to actually do this - it's essencially a curved lens effect, but any normal curved lens means that just drawing straight lines between vectors wouldn't actually join up correctly - instead you'd normally have to do scanline rendering. what it looks like here, is that they've divided up the screen into vertical strips and rendered these seperately and them stuck them back together maybe. i'm going to have another look at the screenshots - there's definately some angles that didn't exist in surfaces before...
i was angry:1 with:2 my:4 friend - i told:3 4 wrath:5, 4 5 did end.
i was angry:1 with:2 my:4 friend - i told:3 4 wrath:5, 4 5 did end.
i was 1 2 4 foe i 3 it not 4 5 did grow
When I looked at "Relativity" by Escher, I thought that it would be bizarre if you modeled that scene as a quake map. It's actually possible, and I think that it's interesting, if not useful or fun for deathmatches :-) .
There is a different Escher picture that is interesting to compare with the screenshot in the link: up and down.
It's not excacty the same type of distortion. Actually, I'm quite suprised Escher never used that particular type of distortion, I guess it shows that the style of art he created is by no means exhausted.
xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
This is great if you don't find Quake to be hard enough already. For an additional challenge, the Jack Daniels mod can be found at http://yourlocaliquorstore.com.
I had a PanQuake for breakfast this morning.
I recently read some research (in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), but I can't find the article at the moment) which proved that some 3d game engines are potentially dangerous to health. The researchers reported that the dangers to health increase exponentially as the size of the screen on which the games is played increases.
The problem is to do with the way the game engine handle 3d images around the edge of the screen, and the way in which these images are processed by the brain. The researchers measured the EEG (electroencephalogram, "brain waves") of gamers whilst playing 3d games. The researchers noted that the EEG changed from its normal "beta" activity (characterised by 14-60Hz oscillations), and gained a low frequency component (delta waves, in the 0.5-2Hz range, which normally only occur during deep sleep).
The researchers attributed this change in brain activity to high frequency components in the rapidly changing images at the side of the screen in some 3d engines. The effect of these high frequency images on the gamer's peripheral vision caused desynchronisation of the gamers EEG rhythms, leading to headaches, irritability, nausea and (in the worse cases) epileptic attacks. The researchers found that these unfortunate side effects got considerably worse when the games were played on large screens.
My question is, will playing Quake on a huge screen like that in a CAVE be responsible for causing serious health problems in gamers?
Yes... this is cool... but you can do the same thing with Q3 and /cg_fov 360. Personaly, when I play railonly I use 120 degree fov.