"To be honest, I'd say the guy has a lot of valid points. And if he's been doing UI design for a while, I'd say he could probably bring a lot to KDE. "
He may be aces when it comes to GUI development, but he may be a lousy diplomat. That may not even be a fair assessment since the article didn't say that the suggestions were coming from the new GUI guy at Corel, just that they were coming from a Corel address. Still, when you're the new guy on the team (or hoping to be) it's far better to sit and listen for a while and start by asking questions before offering your unsolicited wisdom, no matter how sage it might be.
So do I hook myself to an I.V. and have a centrifuge spin out the red cells? Will the red cells be restored when I hit the brakes for my approach to Mars? I hope so. I'd hate to spend my first few days in the Martian atmosphere suffering from anemia too.
Usually I don't respond to idiots, but in your case I'll make an exception.
Doh! So, if I make all kinds of typos like Rob you'll respond, but if my brain shifts a bit out of phase and I misread something you type I become an idiot?
Yep. My post was plain stupid when I read the original (I even quoted it for cryin' out loud). That doesn't make the one who posted it stupid. By your reasoning I'd have to judge you abusive and would urge you to get professional help.
Of course, knowing the software industry, the first product to include a license management scheme that locks you out if your keyboard skills change will be "Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing"...
It would do it by default. By lesson 5 or so your typing style just might possibly change!
"I'm sorry. You're not the same 'hunt-and-peck' typist that registered this product. Access Denied."
"Who has time to read Slashdot, LWN, LinuxToday, kuro5hin, advogato (even if it sucks), rootprompt, Linux.com, Joe Sixpack's 31337 Linux h4x0r z0n3, etc. ?"
You're supposed to READ Slashdot?? I thought you were only supposed to glance at headlines and then wade in with an opinion. Except on this topic - posted 20 minutes ahead of the Napster story and only 16 comments vs. over 100.
"I find that many of the corporate ties within the Free Software community are very much along the lines of Klein's notion of an ideal balance between corporations and communities. It should be noted, however, that the most recent example in the book is dated June 1999, so it's possible that the word "Linux" hadn't reached Klein's ears by that time (except for some of the IPO hype)."
I think this is a bit of a stretch. Linux was pretty much under the radar outside of tech circles until the first of the year. Prior to Redhat's IPO I don't think I saw much in the press other than in computer related web sites and periodicals. I think we have a tendency to apply our own filters to the rest of the world. I remember Linux getting more and more positive press last year, but not in the media that reaches the rest of the world.
Other than that it sounds like a good read.
carlos
Re:Running Roughshod over the bill of rights
on
Taking On A Spammer
·
· Score: 1
"Not quite sure where you got your law degree at, but the first ten amendments originally only applied to the federal government. (Not the states, and definitely not the citizens)."
I don't think my degree is actually final until I finish the box of cereal it came in (I don't like to use IANAL since the acronym seems contradictory). The remainder of your comment is interesting from a historical perspective, but does not necessarily apply to current practice as you pointed out.
"Even so, and I am far too lazy to hit Westlaw at this hour to find a case to prove the point, evidence obtained by a private citizen is not subject to exclusion under the fourth or fifth amendment."
If that's the case, what's to prevent law enforcement from enlisting private citizens in collecting evidence, thus circumventing the intent of the law? Again, we're talking about how the law is applied today.
"If your neighbor stole all of your drugs, kiddie porn, etc., and was arrested by the police for burglary, do you honestly believe that when the criminal tells the officers where he stole it from, that you should not be prosecuted on that evidence?"
One difference in your scenario is that the evidence was uncovered during a criminal investigation, as to how that would play out in the courts, I don't know. As far as what I do or don't believe, isn't that irrelevant since most criminals don't think they should be prosecuted? Al Capone maintained that he was a simple furniture salesman and not a crime boss.
I'll admit I haven't thoroughly researched the topic, but I'm sure my memory isn't that bad. I've read numerous articles and have had friends (and a bro. in law) in several law enforcement capacities all of whom talk about the constraints they are under in order to procure and preserve evidence so that it is admissible in court. Besides, that's the way things work in all the cop shows like Miami Vice, Hill Street Blues, Andy Griffith.....
carlos
Re:Running Roughshod over the bill of rights
on
Taking On A Spammer
·
· Score: 1
"did you read the ICQ log? "
Didn't read the ICQ log. Most of the pertinent information appeared to be covered by those who did.
"The bill of rights only applies to the government,AKA: the police. If the police did this they wuld be in some troble."
That was my point. If that information were to be turned over to the authorities, I believe it would be inadmissible as evidence because of how it was obtained. If I remember correctly, tipsters can provide a piece of the pie to establish probable cause, but the case would have to be built on evidence procured through sanctioned means.
carlos
Running Roughshod over the bill of rights
on
Taking On A Spammer
·
· Score: 2
I find it interesting that no one has mentioned that this information could not be used to prosecute because of how it was obtained. Turning the goods over to a prosecuter would do no good since such information must be given to authorities by someone who had permission to access the files or are obtained by a search warrant.
Amendment IV The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
"Yeh, so now you're taking technical advice from Lars? A guy who says he's only used the net once?"
Nah. I'm sure he got the numbers from someone else and I'm equally sure that he didn't monitor anything, much less for 48 hours. My guess is that the numbers came from the company that did the monitoring. Don't know much about them but the fact that they said they could monitor the service caused a bit of a stir here.
The fact that they used the term 'monitor' in the interview and other articles certainly implies that they were doing something other than checking to see who had what available. It's possible they monitored for new submissions rather than downloads and the difference was lost on the self-described 'smart' drummer.
I've never played with Napster, but I'm guessing from what I've read that mere submission != transfer of a file and until the file is distributed 'intent to distribute' copyrighted material can't be established.
As far as chasing the ones serving the files, they were the ones distributing the material.
Shoot, I was just trying to be funny, not write O'Reilly's "Napster in a Nutshell"! Sheesh.
"My objection is when they forge the headers, put a bogus "remove" address, then bounce it off a misconfigured Exchange server in Korea."
Agreed. A lot of those have 800 numbers with an extension. If I have time I call 'em up, dial in the extension and when the recording asks for my information I ask them to resend their spam with a legitimate response address and then play the radio into the phone for a while (keeps the voice activated recorders going). If everyone did that it'd cost 'em enough money that they'd stop spamming or include legitimate response information.
A lot of these are folks that are contracting with what they think is a legitimate internet "bulk emailer". Letting them know may help them to stop using their services as well.
"It's only doing what's necessary to prevent other people fromprofiting from the Iron Chef trademarks."
If that's all it was, they could probably protect their interests by periodic review of the sites for objectionable uses. Documentation of the checks along with copies of letters requesting certain uses be discontinued should provide more than enough hard evidence to prevent the profiteers from legally hijacking their trademarks.
Really? Promise? You are correct though. I am so dumb. Should have checked the article again instead of just using the 300,000 number and assuming one download per account since the article was very clear it was downloads they were monitoring:
"It's very very simple. One of the -- when we monitored Napster for 48 hours three weekends ago, we came up with the 1.4 million downloads of Metallica music, there was one, one downloading -- one! of an unsigned artist the whole time."
I am clearly no match for your dizzying intellect.
"Around 50 gig in less then 4 hours? Gotta love that."
Ah. That's no big deal. Metallica fans download more bits than that over a four hour time frame. (300,000 kicked off for activities within a 48 hour span of time, if only one MP3 per user that's 25,000 downlods in a 4 hour period and 50 gig is only 20,000 times larger than the average MP3)
Of course, all those bits aren't going into the same pipe, but if each Metallica fan were to download his/her share of this movie they could each watch.0045 minutes, get together and try to piece it together -- kinda like reading an interview with Lars.
"The works of RMS has very positively affected my profesion over the last 15-16 years. We all have a lot that we owe him thanx. But when he goes of on a rant on how bad everything that is not crafted precisely after his mind I tend to phase him out, and so should the rest of you.
So, are you advocating that we don't listen to him, but that we should listen to you? The fact is, I've been able to learn a great deal from any number of people. Those who were smarter than me as well as those who were not. Those who hold higher standing in a particular community (most folks I'd reckon) and those who don't. I try not to dismiss anybody. Well, except maybe those who tell me to dismiss someone else......
It's good to hear that a book tackling such a heady subject is written in a way that makes the material accessible. One of the problems with scientific literature is that it is couched in terminology that puts the average reader off. Without accessible information, some folks might think "string theory" was something dreamed up by some "yo-yo". OK, so even an accessible guide probably won't help those people.
"Actually, your analogy is flawed. A better analogy would be Offspring fans selling or giving away Napster T-shirts to other Offspring fans at an Offspring concert."
I really wasn't shooting for an analogy, just providing a little Napsterish spin....
"I think that you need to separate what they are actually making money off of and what is being traded with their software. Napster is *not* stealing copyrighted material; the users of napster (well, atleast some of them) are stealing the music. Napster is making money off the use of their software..."
And these guys are just selling T-Shirts. Sure, some of them happen to have Napster logos on them, but it's not their fault if the concertgoers choose to buy those. After all, they haven't taken anything from Napster. Napster still has their logo. Napster didn't pay anything to produce the shirts.
Now I'm certain that these gents are issuing a disclaimer of some sort at the merchandise tables, but there's too few of them to regulate what the crowds at these concerts are going to buy. They just make it available and hope their fans choose wisely.
What a riot. This is how Metallica, et. al. should have responded.
"The day I can walk into a store in my town, and buy any piece of software for linux (besides the OS itself) I'll know linux has arrived. I think that's probably at least a year off though."
If you mean ANY piece of software, Windows hasn't arrived by that measurement. There are still plenty of software packages that have chosen alternate distribution channels. If you just mean the main stuff, I can walk into Fry's electronics and get it all; Several flavors of Linux, a couple of office suites, games, development tools....
You can't find a single Linux magazine there, however.
A nameless source says they've "heard of" a user that got kicked off their ISP because of their religious beliefs......
I get emails like this all the time. So far, not one has proved to be true. If I apply the same filter to this submission that I do to my email it bears all the earmarks of a hoax.
I had skimmed the article and thought there had been a mention of threats being made in which case my prior post would have been true. The article explicitly says that no threats were made. I guess there is just so much of that kind of reasoning rearing its head that I just heaved a sigh and waded in......
Could you straighten up my "kick me" sign? I think you knocked it askew.
"'...It's whether the others are going to be held to the same standard.'
Not likely. In 21st Century America, harassment and cruelty are fine as long as you don't do it on a computer."
It's not the use of the computer that is at issue. It is that the web page is hard evidence as opposed to hearsay. The same actions take place when something is recorded on paper, video, audio, etc.
Those sentiments play well here on slashdot, but need to be thought through more carefully.
Isn't a hurdy-gurdy something played by a guy with a monkey?
Yes and no. That instrument is a barrel piano or barrel organ, which only plays preprogrammed tunes. It was played by turning a crank, so it got named after the stringed instrument which preceded it. Though it is techically sophisticated, it could be used by someone with no musical talent, and was frequently used by street musicians who were more interested in catching people's attention than in providing music.
Slashdot Mirror
He may be aces when it comes to GUI development, but he may be a lousy diplomat. That may not even be a fair assessment since the article didn't say that the suggestions were coming from the new GUI guy at Corel, just that they were coming from a Corel address. Still, when you're the new guy on the team (or hoping to be) it's far better to sit and listen for a while and start by asking questions before offering your unsolicited wisdom, no matter how sage it might be.
carlos
So do I hook myself to an I.V. and have a centrifuge spin out the red cells? Will the red cells be restored when I hit the brakes for my approach to Mars? I hope so. I'd hate to spend my first few days in the Martian atmosphere suffering from anemia too.
Doh! So, if I make all kinds of typos like Rob you'll respond, but if my brain shifts a bit out of phase and I misread something you type I become an idiot?
Yep. My post was plain stupid when I read the original (I even quoted it for cryin' out loud). That doesn't make the one who posted it stupid. By your reasoning I'd have to judge you abusive and would urge you to get professional help.
Thanks for finding me exceptional though!
carlos
It would do it by default. By lesson 5 or so your typing style just might possibly change!
"I'm sorry. You're not the same 'hunt-and-peck' typist that registered this product. Access Denied."
carlos
You're supposed to READ Slashdot?? I thought you were only supposed to glance at headlines and then wade in with an opinion. Except on this topic - posted 20 minutes ahead of the Napster story and only 16 comments vs. over 100.
We could beef that up by tweaking......
Napster not a factor in shutdown of LinSight
Posted by JonKatz
carlos
I think this is a bit of a stretch. Linux was pretty much under the radar outside of tech circles until the first of the year. Prior to Redhat's IPO I don't think I saw much in the press other than in computer related web sites and periodicals. I think we have a tendency to apply our own filters to the rest of the world. I remember Linux getting more and more positive press last year, but not in the media that reaches the rest of the world.
Other than that it sounds like a good read.
carlos
I don't think my degree is actually final until I finish the box of cereal it came in (I don't like to use IANAL since the acronym seems contradictory). The remainder of your comment is interesting from a historical perspective, but does not necessarily apply to current practice as you pointed out.
"Even so, and I am far too lazy to hit Westlaw at this hour to find a case to prove the point, evidence obtained by a private citizen is not subject to exclusion under the fourth or fifth amendment."
If that's the case, what's to prevent law enforcement from enlisting private citizens in collecting evidence, thus circumventing the intent of the law? Again, we're talking about how the law is applied today.
"If your neighbor stole all of your drugs, kiddie porn, etc., and was arrested by the police for burglary, do you honestly believe that when the criminal tells the officers where he stole it from, that you should not be prosecuted on that evidence?"
One difference in your scenario is that the evidence was uncovered during a criminal investigation, as to how that would play out in the courts, I don't know. As far as what I do or don't believe, isn't that irrelevant since most criminals don't think they should be prosecuted? Al Capone maintained that he was a simple furniture salesman and not a crime boss.
I'll admit I haven't thoroughly researched the topic, but I'm sure my memory isn't that bad. I've read numerous articles and have had friends (and a bro. in law) in several law enforcement capacities all of whom talk about the constraints they are under in order to procure and preserve evidence so that it is admissible in court. Besides, that's the way things work in all the cop shows like Miami Vice, Hill Street Blues, Andy Griffith.....
carlos
Didn't read the ICQ log. Most of the pertinent information appeared to be covered by those who did.
"The bill of rights only applies to the government,AKA: the police. If the police did this they wuld be in some troble."
That was my point. If that information were to be turned over to the authorities, I believe it would be inadmissible as evidence because of how it was obtained. If I remember correctly, tipsters can provide a piece of the pie to establish probable cause, but the case would have to be built on evidence procured through sanctioned means.
carlos
carlos
Nah. I'm sure he got the numbers from someone else and I'm equally sure that he didn't monitor anything, much less for 48 hours. My guess is that the numbers came from the company that did the monitoring. Don't know much about them but the fact that they said they could monitor the service caused a bit of a stir here.
The fact that they used the term 'monitor' in the interview and other articles certainly implies that they were doing something other than checking to see who had what available. It's possible they monitored for new submissions rather than downloads and the difference was lost on the self-described 'smart' drummer.
I've never played with Napster, but I'm guessing from what I've read that mere submission != transfer of a file and until the file is distributed 'intent to distribute' copyrighted material can't be established.
As far as chasing the ones serving the files, they were the ones distributing the material.
Shoot, I was just trying to be funny, not write O'Reilly's "Napster in a Nutshell"! Sheesh.
carlos
Agreed. A lot of those have 800 numbers with an extension. If I have time I call 'em up, dial in the extension and when the recording asks for my information I ask them to resend their spam with a legitimate response address and then play the radio into the phone for a while (keeps the voice activated recorders going). If everyone did that it'd cost 'em enough money that they'd stop spamming or include legitimate response information.
A lot of these are folks that are contracting with what they think is a legitimate internet "bulk emailer". Letting them know may help them to stop using their services as well.
carlos
If that's all it was, they could probably protect their interests by periodic review of the sites for objectionable uses. Documentation of the checks along with copies of letters requesting certain uses be discontinued should provide more than enough hard evidence to prevent the profiteers from legally hijacking their trademarks.
carlos
Really? Promise? You are correct though. I am so dumb. Should have checked the article again instead of just using the 300,000 number and assuming one download per account since the article was very clear it was downloads they were monitoring:
I am clearly no match for your dizzying intellect.
carlos
Ah. That's no big deal. Metallica fans download more bits than that over a four hour time frame. (300,000 kicked off for activities within a 48 hour span of time, if only one MP3 per user that's 25,000 downlods in a 4 hour period and 50 gig is only 20,000 times larger than the average MP3)
Of course, all those bits aren't going into the same pipe, but if each Metallica fan were to download his/her share of this movie they could each watch .0045 minutes, get together and try to piece it together -- kinda like reading an interview with Lars.
carlos
So, are you advocating that we don't listen to him, but that we should listen to you? The fact is, I've been able to learn a great deal from any number of people. Those who were smarter than me as well as those who were not. Those who hold higher standing in a particular community (most folks I'd reckon) and those who don't. I try not to dismiss anybody. Well, except maybe those who tell me to dismiss someone else......
carlos
carlos
I really wasn't shooting for an analogy, just providing a little Napsterish spin....
carlos
And these guys are just selling T-Shirts. Sure, some of them happen to have Napster logos on them, but it's not their fault if the concertgoers choose to buy those. After all, they haven't taken anything from Napster. Napster still has their logo. Napster didn't pay anything to produce the shirts.
Now I'm certain that these gents are issuing a disclaimer of some sort at the merchandise tables, but there's too few of them to regulate what the crowds at these concerts are going to buy. They just make it available and hope their fans choose wisely.
What a riot. This is how Metallica, et. al. should have responded.
carlos
If you mean ANY piece of software, Windows hasn't arrived by that measurement. There are still plenty of software packages that have chosen alternate distribution channels. If you just mean the main stuff, I can walk into Fry's electronics and get it all; Several flavors of Linux, a couple of office suites, games, development tools....
You can't find a single Linux magazine there, however.
carlos
I get emails like this all the time. So far, not one has proved to be true. If I apply the same filter to this submission that I do to my email it bears all the earmarks of a hoax.
In short, nothing verifiable in the story at all.
carlos
I had skimmed the article and thought there had been a mention of threats being made in which case my prior post would have been true. The article explicitly says that no threats were made. I guess there is just so much of that kind of reasoning rearing its head that I just heaved a sigh and waded in......
Could you straighten up my "kick me" sign? I think you knocked it askew.
carlos
carlos
I think it's a conspiracy by the paranoid so that they can feel better about all the time they've wasted worrying about other things.
carlos
"'...It's whether the others are going to be held to the same standard.'
Not likely. In 21st Century America, harassment and cruelty are fine as long as you don't do it on a computer."
It's not the use of the computer that is at issue. It is that the web page is hard evidence as opposed to hearsay. The same actions take place when something is recorded on paper, video, audio, etc.
Those sentiments play well here on slashdot, but need to be thought through more carefully.
carlos
I found the following Q&A here.
Isn't a hurdy-gurdy something played by a guy with a monkey?
Yes and no. That instrument is a barrel piano or barrel organ, which only plays preprogrammed tunes. It was played by turning a crank, so it got named after the stringed instrument which preceded it. Though it is techically sophisticated, it could be used by someone with no musical talent, and was frequently used by street musicians who were more interested in catching people's attention than in providing music.