Slashdot Mirror
Fuji TV Shuts Down Iron Chef Fansites
The Ass, The Dog And Their Master
A Dog and his Master's Ass, having grown acquainted over the years, had become great friends, though the Ass spent many long hours ploughing the fields, and the Dog mainly lay about with little to do. One day the Dog decided that the work of his friend the Ass was quite remarkable and under-appreciated. Taking a bushel of grain from the year's harvest, he proclaimed to all passers-by: "O, just look upon the work of my friend the Ass! Is it not remarkable!" Some onlookers did make comment on the quality of the grain, whereupon the Ass brayed in delight. Yet upon returning home, the Master found two handfuls of grain missing, and thereupon beat the Dog soundly, chained him up, and warned the Ass never again to countenance thievery.
Moral...
It could be a control thing. I remember a few years ago Bill Watterson going after anyone with a website remotely connected to Calvin and Hobbes. He either shut them down or incorporated them with his official site.
Practically, it also may serve to block negative web sites as well.
Ban them all and let slashdot sort them out.
Conscience is the inner voice which warns us that someone may be looking.
Conscience is the inner voice which warns us that someone may be looking.
-- H. L. Mencken
Oh, and to the idiot moderators who modded the Troll up... wake up!!! This moron has been posting for months as an AC and he always starts his post with... "I used to work for a..." He's just trying to put a cat among the canaries, and it is really sad when Slashdot has sunk so low that moderators are falling for this!
Trust me, the guy never worked for a licensing company.
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
Well *MANY* people working in the manga and anime fields in Japan got their start making doujinshi (fan-created comics, frequently of very high quality) and selling them at the Comic Markets.
It's basically the minors - why crack down on the next generation of professionals?
Wish that more American companies were as smart about this sort of thing.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
Well, it seems like the issue behind fuji's demands are somewhat similar to the whole metallica/napster fiasco. After all, both metallica and fuji tv are LEGALLY entitled to protect their copyrighted products. At least with metallica, though, it's likely that they could be put into a "losing money" situation. What are people going to do, look at pictures of the Iron Chef logo instead of watching the Iron Chef on TV?
This cannot be the way.
So what if XXXXXXXX is trademarked? Does that mean that people can't go to a public place and yell out XXXXXXXX is great/sucks?
As long as they don't say "I am XXXXXXXX, yes the very one from YYYYYY", or say stuff which would wrongfully harm many people significantly things should be fine.
Should USENET/Dejanews/Slashdot/etc be constrained because people are talking about XXXXXXXX? No!
Should we allow them just because they are text only, and prevent people from discussing it if they include other stuff? NO! Because this would prevent us "talking/thinking" in multimedia form in the future.
Even at present much of our communications is moving to become more storeable and reliably copyable. In the future there will be more and more of this- we could for example have "telepathy" via http over bluetooth.
e.g. visit my mindsite dude and see what I saw my pet do yesterday, login for better access if you're my friend, here's the url, etc etc.
Perhaps in the future we will discuss stuff by speech and exchanging links to each others mindsite.
So what happens if we want to discuss XXXXXXXX in public? Force people to only log on to discuss?
What happens if I allow EVERYBODY to log on to discuss it? You mean I can't be open with some of my thoughts?
There should be no such thing as "intellectual property". Your thoughts remain your thoughts and your responsibility. Our thoughts remain our thoughts and our responsibility. No one should own other people's thoughts.
If that's the case what laws should stuff like this come under?
How about:
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour[1]
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house etc
So if you thought of something, and I said that it was my idea then I am bearing false witness. Same if I said something untrue about you.
And in this case the website owners are not stealing stuff from Fuji TV. In what way were Fuji TV damaged?
The old laws are fine. For at the core people are still the same. We change other things so that we don't have to change.
The current "newer" laws are just cached computations by respected authorities on how to implement the old ones in various scenarios. And though good they may have been it seems that some of them should now be expired out of the cache.
In the scenario where the implementations of present laws seem to no longer be good, things should be changed.
Cheerio,
Link.
[1] It's even more obvious we are all neighbours nowadays. At most we're a second or so apart on the Net, less than 72 hours apart physically.
Actually, the "Tee-Hee chick" is a world known wine expert. she is a actress, but she also has one of the largest wine collections in the world. thats the main reason why she's on the show. (also that explains why its funny when she says something like "oh! are we having wine tonight? i like wine!"
--Dave
Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology
www.ironchef.com
and some sites not (yet) down:
http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCi ty/1365/ /html/iron_chef.html
http://home.pacbell.net/ogytork
--
Have fun: Join D.N.A. (National Dyslexics Association)
Please see my reply to myself
Basically, Fuji probably doesn't care about the rest of the world because it doesn't have to care about the rest of the world.
As for the "why are they sending these out" bit, like I said in my other post, it could just be a knee-jerk reflex by the law firm.
If it weren't for the fansites (especially in the early days), IRON CHEF would never have found the fanbase it has today. It has been off air here in the KTSF (san francisco) area for a while now...it is missed.
Coward-san very funny man.
I see postings here. More than 14, and yet no Iron Chef sound files or pictures. Words work!
Funny. Very funny.
Now, back to golf.
Fukui-san? Yes, Ota? The Iron Chef Chinese has just added a dollop of caviar!
This does not, however, explain why Fuju would want to be such jerks about copyrights, especially since many of the clips involved were well within the domain of the "fair use" clause (i.e., they did not duplicate the entirity or majority of the copyrighted material, they were presented for review and critical purposes, etc.). Remember, copyrights and patents don't need to be defended in order to remain valid -- though, in the case of patents, you must pursue the violation within x years (I forget the x) or you lose the right to pursue THAT PARTICULAR INFRINGEMENT (but not all other infringements).
After all, it's not like Napster, where entire copyrighted songs have been placed online. I guess folks like Fuji have these law critters on staff that gotta justify their hefty retainers, and a minor trademark issue wasn't enough for them to justify the hefty sum they charged Fuji (shrug).
-E
Send mail here if you want to reach me.
I'm not defending Fuji TV, just stating what seems to be a fact.
Now I *LOVE* this show too. Can't get enough of it. And I think Morimoto San is gonna KICK BOBBY FLAY'S ASS.
For the record, in the Irof Chef poll you guys did the other month, you got 2 of their names backwards.
Also, it looks like they have a new Iron Chef Chinese. Chen Kinichi seems to have been replaced by some new guy with a Blue Suit. At least that's the way it looks from the promos I see for the Iron Chef NY City upcoming showdown.
Ignore Alien Orders
JMC
I think the Otaku defense only serves to further emphasize how poorly the people at Fuji understand marketing. They don't want rabid fans? People who live for the show? People who take every opportunity to tell others about Iron Chef and recommend they watch it? Fuji would do well to take a lesson from the model of Babylon 5, X-Files, Star Trek, the Simpsons, and Reboot. All dependent on a core of fans who have sustained a lasting interest in each program, sometimes well past the end of it's broadcast life.
I feel that I should have a right to comment on shows that are in the public domain.
And you do. Their right to prevent unauthorized use of their images and sound clips in no way impinges on your right to comment.
Battle Frogfish (first one). Food Network viewers will never see that episode, as it was before the international version of IC.
Food Network is highly advertising the special edition coming up June 25th, I believe, with Morimoto versus Food Network's own Bobby Flay. How much of the C&D orders are legal, given that Food Network is making their own episode? I mean, can the fan sites simply say they're getting the images and logos and stuff from Food Network and not FujiTV or whoever? If more of these special episodes follow, or if it's adopted for American TV, how does the legalese of the issue apply? I understand FujiTV holds the rights to the show and all, but how much of that is applicable if Food Network starts to do their own? Curious for perspective.
Seems to me that this would fall under the Japanese laws, and the laws in Japan covering copyright might not be the same as the laws we are used to in the US. Anybody know how the Japanese laws read?
Calling this stuff "Intellectual Property" really stretches the meaning of the word intellectual practically beyond all recognition.
Anomalous: inconsistent with or deviating from what is usual, normal, or expected
Anomalous: deviating from what is usual, normal, or expected
Canard: a false or unfounded repor
While the company is within it's legal rights to dictate how people who don't have permission use their intellectual property, this is anything but productive.
If it wasn't for the net, I never would've heard of this show.
Just what we need, more letters ordering Slashdot to remove copyrighted content.
First our comments, then our polls!
-Denor
Seriously, never heard of the Iron Chef before...anybody got any *working* links to any fan sites? I'd like to see what its all about.
I don't have cable....hmmm....maybe that's why. Guess I should refrain on commenting about the "Rights" aspect, since I have no idea what the show is about. ;-)
Free music from Jack Merlot.
Possibly...
However, there is a lot of precedent for "fan work" being allowed to slip by, and a company still being able to protect their trademark. The website ironfist.com may be going a bit far, but a site called ironfistfanclub.com would probably be fine, even though it is still technically a trademark violation.
IANL, but there's a lot of sites similiar which set precedent. tmbg.org, the They Might be Giants (unofficial) fan site. Hundreds of Sailor Moon fan sites, too numerous to list. www.ranma.org, a ranma fansite.
All in all, there appears to be plenty of precedent for fan sites, clubs, etc. to "use" the trademark without getting in trouble, yet the companies can still enforce these trademarks. Why? Probably the non-for-profit nature and the fact that they are referencing the actual product the trademark refers to.
Regardless, I sincerely doubt that this "crackdown" is necessary.
All operating systems suck. Some just suck less than others. (and some are virtual black holes)
There was an Entertainment Weekly article about IC last March, I think, and right now it's Food TV's second or third rated show - so quite coincidentally all the websites (and yikes! -all- of them, it seems...) get shut down?
Where on earth is the logic in this? I personally enjoy the show so much more now than I would have without the host of web pages, because I was able to go to ironchef.com and read all the charming little tidbits of information, because I was able to find the intro music and food unveiling .wavs for my startup and shutdown music... I wouldn't enjoy it half so much without knowing about Kaga's past (and his input regarding his outfits) and the previous Iron Chefs and Nobu and the judges and everything else...
Food TV's handful of pages ought to be updated -soon- at least. *sigh*
Per the thread a few days ago... if you can't say something nice about someone... or this show...
It MUST suck! {I've never seen it, and now that thier lawyers have proven it sucks, why would I??)
--Mike--
I don't know if you're TRYING to piss people off or if you honestly just didn't know, but it's a Japanese show, not Chinese. People seem to get very offended if you mix up the two.
-- Dr. Eldarion --
Does it really matter whether or not he worked for a licensing company? The points he raises are valid (to a degree) whether he drew them from his own experience or somewhere else.
Not that hard to make Iron Porn a parody. parodies are quite well protected, legally.
//rdj
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
This is an odd move. Most Japanese companies encourage fan sites. For example AIC (Animation Intl. Corp.) has GFX and Clips online that fans can grab. All they request is that you state that the items are used with permission. This is pretty standard practice.
This looks like the standard Spelling Entertainment type move. (Read Squashing 90210 and Buffy Sites 101) One has to wonder if Fuji is behind it, or if Food Network is acting on behalf of Fuji.
Of course I spent time thinking it over. I wouldn't post without doing so. I guess I better clarify my position.
My main point is this: Most of the time spent at the Iron Chef sites is on the narrative. I want the inside scoop, the info, the 411, or whatever you want to call it. That's what fan sites are all about. (IMHO) I can understand that those who run fansites are frustrated by this, but to take the site down completely, rather than just remove the pics and sounds for now, is pure laziness, and does no service to the fans, who are there for the information anyway. And for newbies, link to foodtv.com or other sites, post a schedule of the show, get people interested in checking it out. I don't think you need pictures and sound samples to do that.
Here's a possible solution for all the fansites, remove the (c) stuff, keep all the info up, and at least *try* to get permission from FujiTV to use some logos or pics. You'd be surprised how many companies will allow you to use their copyrighted materials and images, with the proper disclaimers and copyright symbols in place. I've got logos on my site that are copyrighted. Know where I got them? From the coyright holder. And I have the letters of permission, to boot. It's not about censorship (wrong category, bad slashdot, no bandwidth!) It's about control. Fuji has a right to control their stuff.
For sounds, pics and other things, look to FujiTV or FoodTV.com. For all the *juicy* stuff, go to the fan sites. If any are still up, that is.
I'm a HAPPY sysadmin... *bang!* *Whump*
How does it compare to, say, CNN or CNBC?
no sig
Schuesan! seems the challengers are being shut down.
Hmm i guess they can't compete with the Iron Hand....err i mean chef.
Chaos, Mayhem, and Destruction: Not
Some of the stories of this type revolve around copyright and some revolve around trademark. I assume these are not the same thing. (Any "IAAL" care to comment?) Fair use applies to copyright, but not trademark. Right? Also, people often mention an obligation for companies to protect their marks from dilution, in other words, forcing them to send C&D letters to fans. This only applies to trademark. Right?
So, what is the issue here? I think it's important to understand the underlying issue before going nuts.
And, if it is as it seems to me, and the issue here is trademark, then, what is an amicable solution to a law (protection against dilution) that forces companies to fight use of marks, or lose them?
this type of stuff happens all the time. Startrek took the same stance (paramount) where as Babylon5 (WB) let the Babylon5 sites flourish.
How much do you want to bet that they are planning to release an "official" fansite and do not want any of these sites stealing its traffic?
ByteMyCode.com: A Web 2.0 code sharing community.
Hmmm here's a thought. How about a fan site devoted to the G.I. Joe character Gung-Ho. Now... if ever there was someone who could be termed an Iron Chef, anyone with his supposed cooking skill who also lugged around a bazooka should qualify :)
This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
Yup. I haven't gone to see what these sites, that are allegedly in violation of this show's copyright, look like but assuming, for the moment, that they are really just fan sites then there should be a legal provision provided for these types of sites to exist without having to jump through all sorts of legal hoops. Otherwise fan sites are going to end up being just grey sites as envisioned by the digital divas.
This strikes me as being mean spirited and morally bankrupt. I feel that I should have a right to comment on shows that are in the public domain. Corporations must be given less constitutional protection in the ew-ess. How about zero constitional protection. The lawyers, the corporate variety at least, should be summarily ... well it would be nice for a little while but no doubt there'd be lots to fill their shoes.
:wq
who the hell is this guy? He's got a weird haircut, funky shades, and actually knows a bit about food! And what's with the name?
-------
-------
"It was people! People soiled our green!"
Seems like they are ruling the net with an IronFist.com
ByteMyCode.com: A Web 2.0 code sharing community.
Once upon a time, not very long ago, we were about to cancel everything except basic cable having, well, nothing beyond very basic needs in this age of high-speed internet access.
Then, while clicking through one Friday evening of TV Wasteland, I stumbled upon this really bizarre cooking show. The name of it was Iron Something (I mean, am I allowed to use the trademarked name?). It was on the Food Network, which frankly wasn't a channel we ever watched much.
But the show was awesome. Seriously, my wife and I were stunned; there was finally a decent reason to get cable! An actual reason to bother to watch TV. Something easily worth the $18 per month difference between basic and expanded whatever that we were getting. And we spread the good word to everybody we knew. My sister-in-law got a satellite dish just so she could watch the show.
Despite my fairly dim view of television, the medium, I've always had the opinion that there were only two countries on earth where people had any idea about what to do with the medium. The first was the U.S., and the other, to my surprise, actually, was Japan. (I found this out while I was homesick for a week at a conference in Japan.) Of course, most Japanese programming is unknown in the U.S., so it was hard to tell people about it.
But this cooking show was something you could point them to. Really, it was the first thing I could point at and say, "See? The Japanese have really done something excellent and new with TV."
Almost everybody I preached to ended up loving the show. To one unlucky soul in a non-cable-possible household, I even made weekly tapes of the shows (commericals included, of course). We live in a small Midwestern university town, and we don't really get out very much. But I didn't care that much, as long as I could stretch out on the couch with the family on Friday and Saturday nights and watch the Theme Ingredient be revealed. My four year-old son can name all four chefs. He thinks that peanut butter "matches well" with chocolate milk.
At some point early on in the craze, we did turn to the net for more info. And I did try out the food network site on the show. Alas, nothing much to see there (at that time). So I fired up the Good Old Search Engine and found the URL to ironchef.com. Like, wow. What a truly amazing site; what an awesome labor of love. Of course there isn't much to see there now; Ironstef (really, that's what she calls herself) has had to shut the thing down.
I actually understand trademarks. I have sympathy for intellectual property laws, even if I don't always seek the same level of protection for my work. Intellectually, I completely understand why Fuji set their lawyers against the show's most enthusiastic fans. Some day, I might even be able to explain this to the four-year-old.
More emotionally, of course, I wish I could tell Fuji to take their Iron-Fisted lawyers and put them in a tight warm smelly place. This new technique matches well with greediness. It probably won't kill the fishy smell. It really has killed any interest I had in the show.
Babar
Does this mean I have to remove the "Kitchen Stadium" sign from my stove?
-carl
. We've got computers, we're tapping phone lines, you know that ain't allowed - Talking Heads, "Life During Wartime"
>Do news sites always "ask permission"?
If they use sound, stills or video from anything copyrighted, then they must.
>why can't they use clips under the Copyright's Fair Use Doctrine?
The Fair Use Doctrine is basically intended to prevent copyrights from interfering with education. A fan website would be very unlikely to successsfully claim (and defend) a valid purpose of use to fall within the Fair Use Doctrine.
>If sluggo simply took a picture of his TV while it was showing Iron Chef, then why does this constitute infringement? He's merely displaying what his TV displayed.
Because what his TV is displaying is copyrighted, that is no different than using a video capture device.
I personally don't like what Fuji TV has done, but it is completely within their rights (and the law) to go after people who infringe on their copyrighted material. The reason all of the sites backed down is because they realize that they have no legal footing to fight Fuji TV. At the same time if Fuji TV keeps this up they are just going to alienate the fans of the show and hurt themselves.
-
this too shall pass.
"Stop whining!" - Arnold, as Mr. Kimble
Schuesan! Too bad, I already downloaded all the openings a month ago. My favorite fucking show, and they gotta act like this. Ask my girlfriend, I put off getting action until after Iron Chef every Friday.
http://www.clango.org
Is that they want an apology and link to them on the 'offending' web site.
Add me to the list of people ESPECIALLY disappointed in the producers of my favourite cable TV show. This is bad, very bad.
MEthinks I'll mention this tonight on Swindle Chat (8:00 PM EST on EFnet channel #theswindle)
Damn. Damn. Damn. I really like this show. Now I'm gonna have to put up an illegal fan site.
This is mearly a trademark issue. A cease and desist letter is mearly "Fuji" doing something that they can present in court later when they do want to sue someone profiting from their work. (like the T-shirt guy) Basically they want to be able to say, "See we have been protecting our work."
Rather than whining and giving up mearly write the attorneys a letter requesting permission to use files soley in a non-profit capacity for a fan web-site.
If they refuse you after that, then they're being stupid, and losing on the free advertising opportunities you've given them.
Personally the few mentions I have seen of this show on slashdot has made me want to see it, and the few times I clicked on the ironchef.com website was also encouraging.. but we don't get that in Canada..
Anyway the moral of the story is, don't cave immediately to a cease and desist order, always ask if there is a better solution first. Then if they don't want to talk, give up. Or get your own lawyer whichever you feel more strongly about.
Fuji is certainly within their rights to exercise their legal options, but they could have come up with a freindlier means of protecting their intellectual property, such as providing "authorized" material to webmasters or showcasing prominent fan sites on their own page. Good word-of-mouth is the best and cheapest marketing one can hope for, and this kind of move will only serve to wipe out that net-based buzz.
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
"uh...Fuji-san, I think what the Iron Chef is trying to do is fry their fan base so as to prevent any visitors from coming to their new website..."
dc
--
Wooden armaments to battle your imaginary foes!
Err, don't know much about how this kind of stuff works in Japan, but "Iron Porn" would probably actually be fair game since it would be considered a parody and all...
Although "Fair Use" doesn't seem to matter much at all anymore.
-- Dr. Eldarion --
Then this whole trademark buisness is rotten to the core and must be changed. Soon noone can use any phrase or wording on a public web site or in a chat room without either doing a trademark search in advance OR risk being bullied by a bunch of boodthirsty lawyers. There must be a kind of "fair use" rules that allows using patented, copyrighted & trademarked stuff as long as the commercial interests of the trademark holder are not affected. Just my 1/2 cents
You mean we all get Aerolink (it's aerolink right? i don't remember) wireless ethernet bridges and dishes on our roof. That would seriously 0wn. Then we could call it the "Undernet" , but then Effnet and Dalnet would get jealous. But that would be cool. expensive though :)
Chaos, Mayhem, and Destruction: Not
Another item they ordered in the C&D letter (at least the one that I've seen) was the removal of all links to other Iron Chef sites that contained infringing material.
I often went to ironchef.com to review the list of theme ingredients, to double check the name of the challenger from the previous week, and so on. The FAQ that was underway was also a very good one for viewers new to the show. I don't believe ironchef.com had much in the way of pictures (just a few) and I don't think there were any .wav files either.
Fuji TV has no gratitude. Stephanie Masumura has been running Ironchef.com since 1996. She has been a major source driving force bringing Ironchef into the mainstream, collection hundreds and thousands of fans along the way, even before Iron Chef began to air on Food Network. Her site contained a few pictures about the cast and crew of IronChef, and not the gross violations that Fuji believes they are. Everything was used in the best interest to promote Iron Chef. I would also mention that Stephanie has either been quoted or interview in numerous publications such as Newsweek, San Jose Mercury News, Entertainment weekly, and even NPR (National Public Radio). Certainly this is publicity that has done no wrong for Fuji TV. Stephanie has done no evil for Fuji TV and Iron Chef. It is quite clear she has pioneered Iron Chef into the mainstream for Fuji. Fuji owes her, their gratitude. Fuji should thank her and not condone her. What Fuji has done is hardly reasonable.
So, by telling people on the Internet about the show, the Food Network gained viewers and so did the show. (I certainly wouldn't have ever watched it if I hadn't seen information about it on the Internet.) Now, I'm not going to watch the show anymore, and I'll be sending letters to Fuji and the Food Network explaining that. However, enough people know about the show now that it doesn't matter if they trample all over their hard-core fans. It's too late, I told my brother (for example) and when I tell him I'm boycotting he might stop watching... but then again he might not (my DVD boycott has had no effect whatever on his voracious appetite for those accurséd consumer goods.)
The only solution to this is for people who want to start fan sites to have lawyer-letters saying they are allowed to do so before they do it. That way, if the companies say, "No, lowly wretch, you can't put up your pathetic fan page," you won't be in the even more degrading position you get later, which is, "Lowly wretch, how dare you praise our show!! Grovel before us and take down your miserable page," after you were one of the ones who propelled the show to popularity.
Unlikely as it is, I hope people will consider joining my boycott of Iron Chef (which, coincidentally, I started watching after the Iron Chef poll here on Slashdot... has Slashdot recieved a "cease and desist" letter?). It's a great show, it is a pity creative people so often sell out their art to disgusting, depraved corporations.
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
Whats with the headline? "Fuji TV Shuts Down Iron Chef Fansites"
/. glorifies, dramatizes, and twists every story these days.
;-)
Hmm... last time I checked, forcing sites to remove copyrighted graphics and sound was quite different from forcing them to shut down.
Yeah this sucks. Fuji TV is being dumb. But on the other hand, wtf is with the headline.
I'm gonna have to start looking for news other places if this trend continues. Any fellow rebels have a suggestion?
Im SO tired of 'pirating good, metallica bad' ignorance. Don't go so fucking overboard guys!
the real shiftaling has user number 5134
Karma: -43 and DROPPING!!!
they *are* getting attention.
if you don't think so, let's just see if we can find a way to check how many websearches have been done on the subject, and how much the traffic on the official website (if there is one) has gone up.
eudas
Blessed is he who expects the worst, for he shall not be disappointed.
my thoughts exactly. dont bother with trying to explain this. the sad truth is that 95% of slashdot has its head too far up its ass to see any of that. you'll just get moderated down for 'being a troll' and not applying a GPL mentality to everything. but it makes me wonder, how would C.T., Hemos and gang feel if we did something like setup an automatic slashdot mirror. post slashdot's news and content at another domain. i bet theyd step down from their soapbox.
the real shiftaling has user number 5134
Karma: -43 and DROPPING!!!
I hope you enjoyed it. If not, I await yo' moronic response.
Perhaps rather than writing angry letters to Fuji TV and threatening a boycott, (as one slashdot reader suggested,) we should instead take a cue from apogee and offer them a ride on the cluetrain, so to speak. Apogee has developed a license agreement laying out strict rules under which fan sites can use Apogee trademarks -- perhaps the reader remembers when this came up on slashdot a few days ago. While the Apogee license in its current form is admittedly problematic, the concept seems pretty groundbreaking. Fuji TV doesn't need to issue half a dozen cease and desist letters to protect its rights, it can simply issue terms under which fan sites may or may not use Fuji TV property... hopefully the terms will tend toward allowing fan sites the freedom to celebrate their object of admiration, while protecting the rights of the trademark owners to conrol how those marks are used.
This situation reminds me of the best observation I heard about the whole Napster/Offspring situation -- if Napster were really cool, like Offspring had hoped, they would have sent Offspring a licensing agreement rather than a cease and desist as well.
-- Adam
Said without pictures and sound files... Picture that!
a) foreign-language sites would not be a concern (just like English language sites for anime tend to fall under the radar); and
b) why would they have sent the production overseas for the New York Battle a couple months back?
I just hope this is the actions of some overzealous US lawyers. I'm amazed that these c&d attacks continue to be so popular since they are *universally* reviled by audiences, and the original sites do nothing to damage the intellectual property or profit of the franchise in question. All the company gets for their trouble is bad PR; why waste the postage and lawyers fees? Why would the lawyers want to be seen doing something pointless which damages their clients' popularity?
Without Ironchef.com I would never have seen the crazy CGI opening with the stained glass cathedral windows and giant Kaga statue!
You've got to be fuckin' kiddin' me!
Someone actually registered, paid for, and USES "mofo.com"?
Learn to spell: nickel, missile, lose, solely, amendment, speech, kernel, probably, ridiculous, deity, hierarchy, versus
Did anybody see the actual cease and decist letter?
"We further demand that the Sounds website and its employees and agents immediately remove from its website all materials copied from the Iron Chef program and place a notice on the Sounds website acknowledging and apologizing for infringing Fuji's intellectual property rights and providing a link to the Television Food Network site regarding "Iron Chef" at: www.foodtv.com/tvshows/ironchefindex."
Does this sound incredibly petty to anybody? Removing the infringing material is one thing but an apology and a required link? They have no right to demand that.
Too bad the site owners didn't think ahead. They could have housed the servers at Sealands' Data Haven . Then this whole mess could have been avoided.
When all you ever have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
come on, ppl...what is the big deal here?
this is the same as the Napster issue, the same as the open source thing, and the fact that anyone can still muster any sort of enthusiasm against it surprises me.
as has been stated numerous times is numerous response threads, this company has to maintain control of their IP. they _have_ to. and it's entirely within their rights to do so. why does everyone start whining about it?
MP3s are not open source.
The Iron Chef is not open source.
Only open source is open source, and you cannot apply the GNU license to other things!
Besides, all true fans know that regardless of whether fansites are shut down, you're still a fan.
The thing to remember here is that Fuji Television almost certainly *doesn't care* about the popularity of the Iron Chef series overseas. It's pretty much a dead horse here in Japan, and no matter what anyone might say Fuji makes enough money on the Japanese side of things to render any secondary income from redistribution overseas pretty much irrelevant.
Does Iron Chef have the right to do this? Certainly. No court could possibly say otherwise; this is clearly not a trademark dispute case.
Is Iron Chef right to do this? No. Not in any stretch of the word, particularly not business-wise. As with almost all foreign (and even much domestic) media in the US, it is the fans who spread the word. To hand the fans this kind of slap in the face is simply the mark of an ingrate. These people did your marketing for you, for free, for no other reason than that they loved the show and wanted to see it succeed.
Now, generally marketers are entitled to compensation of some sort. Obviously a fansite isn't entitled to monetary compensation; that's volunteer work. But is it not fair compensation to simply allow such a site to continue to exist?
Certainly Fuji has a right to protect its trademarks. But do they really need protection from harmless fansites? Certainly not. Those fans are doing Fuji a favor, not the other way around. The letters Fuji TV wrote should have been thank-you notes, not cease-and-desist orders.
Wow, another company stupidly struting their copyright laws. Sure they have a right, but why would you want to piss off your loyal fan base? Maybe the RIAA or Metallica is presuring people to stand up for their copyright rights. I mean, Metallica is in such a good standing with its fans right now - why wouldn't anyone not want that?
Unofficial websites are great - and they don't take any traffic away from the real ones, since the real ones often have more in depth coverage. I think a whole bunch of corporations need to hire new technology advisors. Whoever is advising right now needs to surf a bit more.
Moral...
Wow, I found that moral to be totally moving, didn't you?
-- Dr. Eldarion --
Okay, so aren't we all glad that we get to send out a "Cease and Desist" order every time we get an itch? This is how it will all go down:
In the near future a statistical report will come out claiming that throwing your fat belly all over the internet makes people like you less; something to the effect of "Every company that has issues a cease and decist has failed". Of course it will take two years like it took for the report about dot-coms being 80% sellable facades.
-Effendi
-Effendi
Actually, there are Otaku in the US. They exist, and they are scary. Some are hentai/perverts, and some are just radically obsessed with whatever fan topic(eg. anime). Take a geek and crank up the power and obesessiveness times 10.
,since people who stay at home and obsess about something were always considered gloomy compared to normal people.
Otaku is a very interesting linguistic progression.
Otaku literaly is someone else's home. Then Otaku also meant someone who lingers at home and is gloomy. It has become a synonym for obsessed fans
There is still the usenet newsgroup alt.tv.iron-chef
Very active, and upset about the whole mess.
Let's see Fuji try and shut it down....
One neat trick I've seen for other sites that carry controversial topics (like sex FAQs)is to post links to articles on Dejanews, not the actual articles.
I think they should shut down all fan-sites.. Actually I think they should shut the whole net down -It draws viewers away from television and everybody knows it full of Piracy and Pr0n..
-
air and light and time and space
Actually the owners of the sites should have asked for permission before bringing their sites live. In fact, now thatthey have complied with the cease and desist orders, they should ask for Fuji's permission to bring the sites back to life. If Fuji really is trying to protect their copyright, then they might agree, given the site is plastered with "Copyright Fuji" and "used by permission" notices...
Yes, but Fuji TV is a Japanese corporation. Anybody know anything about Japanese IP law?
---
Zardoz has spoken!
Oper on the Nightstar
I suppose then I shouldn't call PepsiCos product pepsi, because then other companies like Coca Cola may hear about there secret product and get strange ideas about competition and then we'd have capitalism.
While i'm at it, I should return my spent cans ASAP to the company so I'm not "Freely Advertising" there product, lest they lose control over the entire product line.
I won't speak about unsaid company anymore as it may cause a lawsuit, since I am blatently abusing my right to free speech by reproducing there copyrighted name in this digitally reproducable forum.
Ace
"Screw you guys, I'm going home."
---
Zardoz has spoken!
Oper on the Nightstar
Aren't you confusing copyright and trademark law here? It seemed to me (maybe I missed something) that the cease-and-desist letter was complaining about copyright violations, not trademark violations. There was no accusation, for example, that the fan site was misreprenting itself as being run by Fuji; they just accused the website of copying material copyrighted by Fuji (e.g., sound clips)
Copyright law doesn't have the same notion of "dilution" that trademark law does---you don't lose the ability to pursue later infringers when you allow some copying.
Aside: does anyone know a good, basic, on-line or off-line introductions to trademark law? It keeps coming up so often that I'd like to understand it better.
---Bruce Fields
Actually, considering this contemptuous move on their part, I think they should never be allowed to have the domains. Put up a computer news or porn site there instead. Unless the Iron Chef TV show happens to be porn, an ironchef.com porn site would not really be a trademark violation, since no one could possibly confuse the two. (Just as you can have a copper mine or a computer consulting firm or a real estate company called "McDonalds" without infringing on the trademark of the company that sells tasteless lumps of grease under that name.)
That isn't to say they won't be able to hijack the domain anyway, but at least they wouldn't be able to use "trademark" argument without lying.
---
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
robwicks is right on! Given the choice between taking these sites in and using them to PROMOTE Iron Chef, they instead have decided to alienate loyal fans. Remember alt.tv.twin-peaks? Who shot JR? Here was an opportunity to advance Iron Chef into Americana (if you will excuse the expression) and they blow it. What morons.
Same here, and the very thought of it gives me a twinge of self-loathing. That's one of the best reasons I can think of to move to Antartica and get away from it all...
...I thought it said Iron Chef Fantansies. Wheh! Had me worried.
--
then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
What saddens me is this is one of my fav shows. We just moved into a new apartment this past weekend, and we were finally able to get digital cable (yay!) which meant FoodTV which meant Iron Chef. No more borrowing videotaped shows from friends.
I had perused ironchef.com and it was a very cool fan site. I could see if they were upset that they didnt have the domain name, and wanted to buy/make an offer for it so they could create their own info site, but to blast down the very people who have, in a large part, been the reason that this show has taken off in the US is sad. I am not even sure how the copyright issue can be stated, since it seems to fall under fair use. Ironchef.com only had a few stills, no video that I was aware of, and focused on the content of the show. Trademark dilution.. maybe, but it seems it would be hard to prove it in court.
I am going to have to think long and hard about this one, I am really torn. I have written a letter of protest to both the Food Network and also to Fuji. I don't know what good it will do, but its worth a shot.
Check out Magic Firesheep!
These sites should now list the contact addresses of this show's advertisers. I'm sure Fuji wouldn't mind too much if their advertisers got plenty of polite emails explaining that their products were being boycotted due to Fuji's IronLawyer.
134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
And you can make digital backups of your cd's too. You just can't sell/lend/broadcast/give away those backups or recordings. Not that i agree with all of those, but legally, (if Japanese copyright and trademark law is similar) they should be in the legal right. But either way, with or without the law, its a pretty damn stupid PR move.
Chaos, Mayhem, and Destruction: Not
http://www.io.com/~sluggo/ironchef/ic wavs.htm had a .wav of Kaga saying "Mango"...only he said it like this:
"Maahn-goooh."
Funniest damn thing I've ever heard, I swear...
See my comment here.
I may be paranoid but:
Fuji TV wants the web addresses of these fan sites, but aren't willing or able to pay for them - however they can't follow the usual practice to get the rights to the names (as in the JuliaRoberts.com case) because the web-sites have actual relevant content. Therefore the first thing to do is prevent them from having relevant content, and then they can sue for the names for free...
StrutterX
Yeah, like AOL trying (unsuccessfully) to shutdown aolsuck.com...
It's actually Aironet. Now owned by Cisco. No I don't work for them.
That means N. Portman will be shutting down all of her fan sites, too! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhhhhhhh Noooooooooooo! I can tell you I'm petrified about this.
To say Fuji "doesn't get it" is a laughable understatement. At minimum, they could require sites to give proper attribution to Fuji's copyrighted materials. These fan sites are perfectly legal under "fair use" and any lawyer worth paying by the hour knows this.[Reader's Digest(TM) Condensed version]
F*** off!
[Expanded Legalese (patent pending)]
unintelligable by mortals
Note to Fuji: You are aware people have to pay to see your show? (Iron Chef isn't on any broadcast network.) How much market share would you have if the food channel stopped showing Iron Chef or cable/sat. networks stopped carrying the channel?
What scum.
Conscience is the inner voice which warns us that someone may be looking.
Conscience is the inner voice which warns us that someone may be looking.
-- H. L. Mencken
And the best part is the little gopher guy running around in the cooking pit asking questions.
No, actually, the dubbing is great. Especially when they dub the giggles of the actress. I think everything should be dubbed. Dubbing is easily the most amusign thing that can be done to a show.
You know all those spaghetti westerns with clint -- they were hillarious because of the dubbing.
"Fair use" is a copyright doctrine. There is no fair use of a trademark. This isn't to say that it is always illegal to use a trademark without permission (e.g. product comparision advertising). Also, the statement "non-profit falls under fair use" implies that non-profit use of other people's IP is always OK. This is not true.
Q:How many libertarians does it take to stop a Panzer division? A:None. Obviously market forces will take care of it.
Once upon a time, I made a fansite about a different TV show. The only copyrighted material I used was one picture of the main character (fair use 3) for non-commercial (fair use 1) purposes. I even linked to the official site (fair use 4).
The copyright owners sent me a cease and desist letter. I took the image down within half an hour of checking my mail. I would later study the issue in more depth and discover that fair use is not infringement; cease and desist letters against obvious fair use can constitute harassment.
So I asked for a license. They refused to give me one, claiming a possibility of defamation aka libel. Then I just took the site down and put a rant in its place.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Other topics of discussion currently at www.ironchef.textonly.com:
The mispelling of Eel on line #342
Ridiculous capitalizion, how could they?!?!
Exclamation points: too many or not enough?
It's not Schuesan, it's Fukai-san. It's the name of one of the 2 primary comentators, and the san at the end of the name is simply a matter or respect (like mister).
Anyway, before I ramble too far off topic. It's a shame to lose ironchef.com, I could always count on that site for real information about the show. The foodtv.com page never did Iron Chef justice. Maybe they were too busy kicking things up a notch by promoting Emirl, but still...
-me
If I could only live my life with my threshold at 4...
No, no, no..... You are NOT exempted from copyright law just because you haven't made a profit; why would there be such a fuss over mp3 trading if this were the case? There are four criteria that determine whether something is "fair use", and the intended use (e.g., for profit or not for profit) is one of the criteria, but it is not the only one.
For example, the amount that you've copied also matters--in this case, if fansites have only copied little bits and pieces, then that would make it easier for them to claim fair use. It also matters whether you're hurting the copyright-holder's potential market for their work; so, for example, Fuji could argue that the sound clips on a web site hurt the market for their future "Iron Chef Sound Clip Sampler" CD. All of these factors would have to be weighed by a court. I'm not sufficiently familiar with the case law to know how this would be decided.
---Bruce Fields
The Fair Use Doctrine is basically intended to prevent copyrights from interfering with education.
If so, it's not working. A fansite's purpose is to educate the public about a story cycle.
A fan website would be very unlikely to successsfully claim (and defend) a valid purpose of use to fall within the Fair Use Doctrine.
Only because the © owners are big bullies with money to burn on lawyers.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Rather than whining and giving up mearly write the attorneys a letter requesting permission to use files soley in a non-profit capacity for a fan web-site.
They'd be refused as I was refused.
Will I retire or break 10K?
What's that smell? Censorship? No...no...Oh, these guys must have just come back from taping the "Battle Pike" episode.
:-(
P.U.
The Divine Creatrix in a Mortal Shell that stays Crunchy in Milk
The House Between - Original Sci-Fi Series
http://www.fujitv.co.jp/en/
Give em a piece of our mind(s)!
-- Phillip Davis phil at daviszone dot org
The owner of the material has the right to protect its property/creation, however
A Wise owner would allow and encourage such fandom on a "fair use" basis to, if anything, further proliferate the use of the material.
Its interesting that you mention Star Trek(tm) because that is the best example of what is going on here:
NBC puts ST in a lousy time slot and it is canceled.
Fans won't let the idea of ST die, and continue it on long after the show is killed by the studio.
Suddenly, the studio wakes up and realizing there is a ready-made customer base fires off movies, spin-off series, and merchandise!
Now its suddenly illegal to mention Klingon(tm).
Paramount went to great lengths to squash all ST fan sites in favor of their paid site STARTREK.COM. Alas, it failed, see here.
Ah, greed in the American society.
"Stop whining!" - Arnold, as Mr. Kimble
I'm at work, else I'd try to dig up a working link from my bookmarks...the FoodTV site is sucky and bland (of course) but at least it gives you an idea.
The deal is, you have this rich, foppish man (Chairman Kaga) who (so the story goes) spent his fortune to find amazing new cuisines. To do this, he built a giant kitchen, called Kitchen Stadium, and found four cooks who are the masters of their particular cuisines - one a Japanese chef, one a French chef, one a Italian chef, and one a Chinese chef.
The show itself consists of a challenger (usually top chefs from top hotels or restaurants), whose background is described in detail by Kaga before the show, coming to Kitchen Stadium and picking one of the Iron Chefs to "battle." There is a "theme ingredient" for each show - some of them are mundane (tofu) and some of them are relatively exotic (mangoes!), and both chefs have to create a meal (usually consisting of four to six dishes) that best utilize and showcase this theme ingredient within an hour. While they cook, the panel of four people (two people who are always on the show, then two celebrities, including one AMAZINGLY ditzy actress) make comments and talk about what's going on. Finally, the two celebrities and two other guests taste the food that the challenger and the Iron Chef have made in the hour, and judge accordingly.
It sounds so weird to describe it, and I know I have dissolved in laughter when I'm trying to tell someone about it more than once. The charm of it is that it's very serious, but it doesn't seem like it should be. Also, it's very exotic and just plain fun to watch. So check it out sometime!
This is absolutely correct and the sites should have stood on this ground. I argue that you would not need a hefty legal team to fight such a battle, just make your court dates and breath the same two words in response to each question: "fair use."
illegitimii non ingravare
The fansite can't claim they own the show "Iron Chef" just because Fuji never made them take down the images. Fuji owns the copyright regardless of whether they enforce it. It's obvious companies like this are shooting themselves in the foot by not being selective about WHERE they enforce their copyrights. As for the Iron Porn, that is already protected by parody laws... As long as it's original art!
but it HAS to be said....
The theme ingredient for tonite is...........
.....steaming hot grits!
Chaos, Mayhem, and Destruction: Not
It's time for legislation to be passed protecting the rights of a fandom website before more people are hurt. I find it sickening that the corprate assholes running the world create a marketing division (who's sole job is to make you fall in love with their product) and then turn right around and punish you with their legal department (...punished because you want to EXPRESS your love for their product). This type of hypocracy makes me gag on my own bile. Are we to be nothing more than a consuming robot? buy Buy BUY! But for God's sake don't talk about it! Salesmen used to love word-of-mouth advertising. Is that now illegal? And don't anyone give me that intelectual-property bullshit. In grammer school I was taught that the rights of the individual came first. It would seem that I've been lied to. You know, after my mom told me that Santa Claus wasn't real, I took comfort in the idea that my rights as an individual were protected in the constitution, and that those rights were real. Is anything real anymore? Corbin Dallas
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
Okay, I don't have cable but have heard good things about the show. I've never been to either web-site, so I can't evaluate the content.
With that said, on with my opinion (which is worth as much as the electrons used to express it).
Sound clips: What is the difference between using footage for a news site and footage for a fan site? Do news sites always "ask permission"? Fan sites definately attribute the source of the sound clip. Provided the site is not rebroadcasting the show in its entirety without the express written consent of Major League Baseball, the UN, and Fuji, then why can't they use clips under the Copyright's Fair Use Doctrine?
Still photos: If sluggo simply took a picture of his TV while it was showing Iron Chef, then why does this constitute infringement? He's merely displaying what his TV displayed.
What next, am I no longer allowed to say, "Ha" in a Japanese accent? Am I no longer allowed to describe what happened on last night's show around the water cooler at work?
I know of only one way to fight corporate behavior like this: Write Fuji and tell them that you will no longer watch their show (although hopefully you have VCR tapes of the show which are legal under the "Time Shift" Copyright Fair Use Doctrine) and send a copy to your cable provider. Tell them you'll be reading a cook book anytime that a show airs and you're home. The only way to fight this bullshit is to hurt corporations where it hurts: The bottom line.
Cheers,
Slak
I thought fair use was strictly a copyright concept. You simply are not allowed to make use of some one else's trakemarked logos without permission, and if they don't police it, they loose it. I think you are, however, allowed to use _altered_ trademarked logos for the purpose of parody.
I used to work for a licensing company. Their business is to sell the rights for other companies to be able to use images, likenesses, etc. of trademarks they represent. The licensing company also dictates where and when these likenesses are used and in what context. If anyone subverts that, no matter how pure and non-commercial the intent, it is still undermining the very business of licensing and is in violation of their trademark.
If some schmo from Missouri decides to put Sn**py on his church's website and doesn't have to pay for it, MetLife will suddenly say to the licensing company, "Hey, why the frickin' crap am I paying for these Sn**py rights when this schmo from MO gets it for free?! I'm paying half from now on or I don't renew the contract and you get NOHTING!" The licensing company says, "WTF?! We didn't sell the rights to use Sn**py on some backwoods church's website, AND EVERYONE IN THE WORLD CAN ACCESS IT. Call the lawyers!"
If you videotape a baseball game and play it on a TV in the middle of a public park, even if for free, that is still a violation. Licensing rights is a business. Subverting that business is illegal, whether the perpetrator is doing it for-profit or not.
There is no free lunch. Most high school and college kids don't understand this because they don't have to support themselves. Yet. Many American adults don't understand this because America is stuffed full of morons who forget that everything manmade on this planet is the result of commerce! People do not give anything away for free unless it is to lure you to spend money on something else. Period.
In Napster's case, it is giving away someone else's stuff, without signing a contract or receiving permission, so they can make money off advertising and Napster merchandise. Nice, huh?
In this case, Iron Chef _could_ grant limited permission to the fansites, but they do not feel they would be able to make the same amount of money they would make from, say, Random House or Hallmark and they would not be able to exert full control over the use of the trademarks, which they feel they must be able to do. Remember, we're talking millions of dollars for rights, not 'Oh, I could pay you a hundred bucks to use Sn**py, right?' Millions. Each. Time.
That said, I think that Parker and Stone had the right idea when they pleaded with Comedy Central NOT to go after all the South Park sites, instead letting the 'net buzz help the property overall with the occasional 'no, you've gone too far now take that down please' but I'll bet the licensing people were livid about that. They lose money, and you know how people are when they feel like they are being robbed.
Again, pardon me for making a bit of an overstatement, but isn't the right to *SAY* bad things a lot of the driving force behind the issue here? Like Apogee's potential to block negative reviews, it's wrong to decline someone an opinion. And if they can justify it even a bit with some evidence (graphics / sounds / etc.) then let them!
"I'm not even supposed to BE here today!"
Then you've never heard his announcement of the ingredient in the first Natto battle. "Naaahhhhhhh-TO!" [in a disgusted voice] You know when you make Rice Krispies Squares, and the marshmallow is runny and stringy and you transfer it to the pan to cool? You know how that looks? Picture that with black beans instead of Rice Krispies. THAT'S what Natto looks like.
--
--
The gravitational constant of protein has been changed[...] Also, rabbit carcasses no longer weigh as much a
I bet it's a really expensive one, too.
normal(adj)- people who don't sit on slashdot all day wondering why everyone else isn't building robots [DECS]
I work in advertising, and we would kill to see a fan base develop for one of our clients. There is no way this could be a bad thing. Anyone remember the guy from Turkey "Welcome to my homepage, I kiss you"? His website spread across the globe in a matter of weeks. Every person I know saw it. Can you imagine what the same situation would do for the ratings of a television show? Iron chef has that potential.
/. The internet is the best thing to ever happen to this show, it doesn't cost them a dime, and they're don't like it.
So far, I know one person besides myself who has seen Iron Chef on television, but I have seen it mentioned twice now on
With leadership like this, fan sites may someday be all that is left of this show.
That way Fuji retains their trademarks, and the fansites get to be legit. Everybody's happy.
But nooooo, instead we get corporate lawyers and PHBs trying to show each other how big their dicks are by tromping all over the "little people". This is why I believe that a sizable minority of businesspeople are frickin morons that waste space and ought to be savagely beaten with iron bars until they learn how to "walk softly and carry a big stick" rather than walking loudly and swinging your stick in every direction.
. . . and I say that as a businessperson myself.
I have no
But the damage is done. Enthusiasms are punished. The work that people do to express their fondness for something gets reduced to naught. (How come so many defenders of the right of IP owners to 'make money from their work' never consider the value of the work of those 'downstream' from them?)
This, to me, is one of the most subtle, yet most festering injustices of current times. In the years after the second world war, European thinkers used to remark that "the Americans have colonized our subconscious." (I'm focusing on the phrase "colonizing the subconscious," not the word "American," oh ye pedant who is compelled to tell me that Fuji is a Japanese company). Now, the owners of cultural property are trying to consolidate their conquest and turn it into franchise. The works of pop culture are *part of my subconscious.* I have dreams with Bugs Bunny and Gilligan's Island and Star Trek in it. Compelling images from TV and cinema have been flash-burned into memory. I quote films I've seen to comment on quotidian events with the same fluid ease that, I imagine, the ancient Athenians used to refer to Olympean deities. But the tycoons of culture can and will keep me from expressing the ebb and flow of these cultural elements, just to protect their profits. All in all, it's a more egregious slight on the liberty of the human spirit than most people will care to admit. It has to be stopped.
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
Corporations such as Fuji are no longer selling a particular product (such as a series of shows about cooking). Instead, they are staking their claim to a piece of culture, and then attempting to charge for all participation in that piece of culture.
Their fear is that some significant amount of the Stuff in the quirkly little corner of idea-space named "Iron Chef" might some day be created and controlled by fans, instead of by Fuji. Perish the thought!
These days our only common culture centers around TV shows, commercials, and other corporate-owned stuff. Thus regular individuals are increasingly prohibited from being full participants in their own culture. And this situation is due in part to a legal regime that is supposed to *encourage* creativity?
Of course, copyright law does have safeguards built in; but we need to ensure that these safeguards are not forgotten. For that reason, we all need to understand the "fair use" exemptions and watch carefully to make sure that they are preserved and strengthened.
---Bruce Fields
-Dorsey
-Dorsey
If you can't beat them, exploit them. *Then* beat them... -Milk & Cheese
however, if someone was calling your a complete asshole you would care.
Or even more relevant, if someone was judging one of your oppinions and speaking of it negatively while speaking highly of you overall.
Given that people usually focus on the negatives when evaluating an individual, it at first appears that removing the possibility of a high profile web site criticizing some aspect of their show would be in the lawyers best interests; what they fail to recognize is that the number of irritated fans who may choose to not watch the show anymore can often times outweigh the impact of a few high profile negative comments.
Nick Lange nick.lange@SPAMTASTIC.hushmail.com
Long live Poe.
Or course, ironchef.com was not actually removed.
I can understand complaining about the use of copyrighted images or sounds, etc., but think about it a little bit - as of recently, the amount of lawsuits raised against personal, non-profit websites (or other actions taken against them) has skyrocketed. What possible BENEFIT could come from spending your time and money to stop a free website from spreading your glory and bringing your name to the forefront of surfer's minds, without charging a dime for advertising?
Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but if someone were to tell other people what a nice guy I was, I wouldn't beat the hell out of him for talking about me without my express permission.
"I'm not even supposed to BE here today!"
uhh its Japanese. foo
Chaos, Mayhem, and Destruction: Not
Go to FujiTV's web site and post an opinion... It can't hurt.
I! Tego Arcana Dei.
As a B5 fan, I saw this played out a few times, each time with a ridiculous approach. B5 always took the approach of restrict yourself to fair use, properly acknowledge all copyrights and trademarks, don't do it for profit, and they'd leave you alone. Aparently, it was a major pain to get Warner Bros. to understand the concept of embracing the fans rather than alienating them, but they managed.
It was amusing to watch Paramount go after all the Star Trek fan sites and shut them down, even the ones who had approached it in the same way that B5 recommended. Disney, too. Now, it's Fuji over the Iron Chef.
I've seen it work. Set simple rules. Enforce them. Embrace your fans, and they will pay you back. Piss them off, and they'll burn you.
Logic before laywers. And I work for lawyers...
http://drteknikal.blogspot.com/
The theme ingredient for tonite is.......... ......A cease and desist order ! I wonder if he's going to steam that?
only if you agree that 500000000 is the same as 500000000. the old "a=a" property. I forgot, was it the identitive property? I think i'll deny the indentitive property as being factual this week.
Chaos, Mayhem, and Destruction: Not
bh
"Fukui-san"
"Yes Ota"
"I spoke to the challenger just now and he was sad about the whole incident. He said that 'if that the Iron Chef didn't want the word of mouth advertising that sites like this provide then it was his perogative.'"
Guess what? It's time for Yet Another Story About Some People Who Violate Trademarks, Copyrights and Other Forms of Intellectual Property and Then Get Sued by the Rightful Owners Who Are Just Doing What They Have to Do to Maintain Their Rights.
You are technically correct. However, you speak only from the legal side. Justice and Law are two entirely different things. Sometimes they intersect. Sometimes they don't. Here, they don't.
Get a grip, people. This is how the Real World works.
Strange, I don't see MTV sending C&D letters to operators of The Real World fansites... (sorry, I couldn't resist).
Actually, I've heard that testicles when cooked taste a lot like roasted pork. Particularly good with a mushroom sauce.
--
The other side is crowded. The dead have nowhere to go.
I personally think the ideal internet shoiuldnt be run by physical governments, because it's worldwide. It should be recognised as it's own 'universe' and should have it's own governing body, laws, etc.
----
Oh my god, Bear is driving! How can this be?
ADVENTURERS! - ANTIHERO FOR HIRE - CARDMASTER CONFLICT
The Iron Chef drinking game. (Take a drink whenever someone says, "I think he's going to steam that.")
The fruity, fruity fashion history of Chairman Kaga.
All the history on prior Iron Chefs, and how the current ones came into power.
More?
normal(adj)- people who don't sit on slashdot all day wondering why everyone else isn't building robots [DECS]
First, yes, this is an "intellectual property issue." Fuji, in their infinite wisdom, sicced the lawyers on the fans to "protect" their property. This much I can dig.
It was done badly. Telling your fans that everything they've been doing to support your entity is bad. If they're doing something you don't like, pull out the big legal stick, lay it across your lap, and then try to work out a decent arrangement that keeps everybody happy. Want to find out how bad it can get? Search the web for "The Asshole Formerly Known As Prince" and see what happenned with TAFKATAFKAP (The Artist Formerly Known As The Artist Formerly Known As Prince) when he had his lawyers pull the same stunt.
Third:
Jill Fairbrother
Morrison & Foerster LLP
425 Market Street
San Francisco, CA 94105-2482
tel: (415) 268-7000
fax: (415) 268-7522
email: fairbrother@mofo.com
url: www.mofo.com
I recommend a polite letter to Ms Fairbrother expressing the poor judgement of this action in polite terms. DO NOT harass the poor woman for doing her job, but do suggest that she offer her client options for allowing the fan sites to operate with approved material, and let the fans help the client like they want to.
Visit Lockjaw's Lair. He won't bite.
A while back, a friend and I went through the effort of recording all of the episodes to the CGI Animation Show REBOOT off of the Cartoon Network. We digitized them, and now I have all 39 episodes in MPEG format. Happy Happy day...
In the process of doing this, I posted a request to the 'Un-Official Reboot' website asking if anyone had the original show opening(s) on video tape, because Cartoon Network wasn't running them. I got SEVERAL requests for people who wanted a copy of the shows when I was done... Many offered to pay me upwards of $250 for the 39 episodes. This made me a little nervous, since I was flirting with the 'copyright' territory, so I figured I be above board, and just ask them.
So I send a message to info@mainframe.ca, and asked them if they had a problem with me making a copy of the shows for someone. Within 2 days, they sent a reply back stating that, as long as I wasn't making money off of my copies, they said I could do it. So, I charged the guy $20 plus shipping (figure a buck-a-disc is OK), and everyone was happy.
</anecdote>
Bottom line: More companies should be this cool. I think that, as long as you're not PROFITING off of their stuff, or hindering their profits, you should be able to use it (and I mean no add banners, no nuthin'!).
Isn't that what being a fan is all about?
-- You can't idiot-proof anything, because they're always coming out with better idiots.
Remind anyone of bitchslapping?
Here is the link on the fujitv site to offer your opinion: http://www.fujitv.co.jp/cgi-bin/response/mail_e.pl
weiners!
Pope
Freedom is Slavery! Ignorance is Strength! Monopolies offer Choice!
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
Iron Chef rocks. Here's hoping they bring it back...
magic
Well, actually, they can demand that you paint yourself blue, put on a tutu and go dance live on Fuji TV if they want to. If the sites have indeed violated Fuji's copyrights, Fuji could immediately start legal action based on what has already happened, instead of giving the violator an easy way out.
(Not that any of this makes Fuji's actions less stupid, but...)
Cheers,
-j.
They should be loving the attention by fans instead of pushing them away. The Beave
The Beaver The Best Things In Life Are Free And So Is Linux!
This one is a hard choice for me. On the one side, Iron Chef certainly has the copyrights to its logo, images, and sounds from its show. And it probably has the right to go after people who they feel have violated that copyright. After all, if they don't reign in people now, what's to stop someone else from making Iron Porn or something that comes back to bite them in the butt?
Now, that having been said, Fuji should take a careful look as to what site is doing what. If the site is positive and promotes traffic, I'd give them a letter saying "Hey, that's our stuff - but you can use it all if you sign this agreement saying that it's all ours, and that you won't claim its yours, and give us a link to our site on each page in a nice viewable manner." This way they maintain control of the copyright (by forcing people to have Fuji's permission, a perfectly reasonable request IMHO), and if a site doesn't agree, then they can slap them down. As always, that's just my $0.02. I could be wrong.
John "Dark Paladin" Hummel
We don't just like games, we love them!
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
The theme ingredient for tonite is..........
......A cease and desist order!
Chaos, Mayhem, and Destruction: Not
I think perhaps schools should start tailoring marketing classes to the Internet generation. Corporations, for the most part, have no clue how to take advantage of the free publicity they can get from Internet fan sites. I think they should have the sites all sign contracts regarding the type of content allowed on sites which use copyrighted materials. That way, you pull the plug on access to those materials for someone who is publishing materials you find defamatory, but not for everyone in general. This is as stupid as the Viacom/Star Trek thing.
Logic ... merely enables one to be wrong with authority. -- Doctor Who
This type of shit is really starting to piss me off. These corporate bastards keep treating the net like a lawyers playground. As more and more money gets pumped into this 'commercial' we call the web($500*10^6 this year), the worse it is going to get. We need something new, and something built on the hacker ethic. broadband packet radio anyone?
--Rant on--
Ok, first things first: Thanks to Zombie for getting it right! The announcer's name is Kenji Fukui. THE PHRASE IS: FUKUI-SAN! Not shueesan or whatever other vague mispronunciations us damn americans don't bother to check on.
--Rant off--
Second thing: Why do you have to use copyrighted images and such to promote the show anyway? IronChef.com had a LOT of content on it, other than the pics and sounds. All Fuji TV is saying in the Cease and Desist order (for those of you who never bothered to READ it...) is that they want the copyrighted material removed. For IronChef.com or any other fan site to shut down completely just because they can't post a few pics or sounds is a cop-out.
If you can't tell a story without pictures, you're not much of a storyteller.
I'm a HAPPY sysadmin... *bang!* *Whump*
Appaerently, the people responsible for Babylon5 decided early on that anything short of taping the episodes and selling them on the net would be tolerated. They haven't lost anything for it. Yes, perhaps legally the corporate producers have the right to their copyright, but as with the X-Files, Star Trek and all the others before them, what do they expect to lose?
Do fans sites detract from their income? No. If anything, it brings in revenue by encouraging new fans to watch the show after seeing the response from the 'Net.
Do they loose any legal claim to their property because some fan puts a few fuzzy screen captures on the web? No. Only trademark claims are lost if other uses are tolerated.
The legal issues here may be clear, but the behaviour is stupid. The example of Babylon 5 should serve as a guide to content producers to be a little more tolerant.
Besides, I have difficulty following Iron Chef without subtitles, and I can't get the Food Network in my area. Those fan sites make my viewing possible.
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
It has been conjectured on rec.music.movies that some of the soundtrack music that is used on Iron Chef may not have been licensed from its owner, Universal.
Write them and politely suggest that they try to be more friendly in the future.
I have no
In Japan there is a word "Otaku" - meaning a drooling fanboy, over the top anime worshiper. The closest thing we have in our culture would be the hardest-core trekies. Or an Apple computer fanatic. It is an insulting word (it didn't used to be) but has become popular in America. Otaku has a VERY negative connotation in Japan. It is equivalent to a pervert.
I think something that might be happening here is Fuji is afraid of American Otaku latching on to the show, harming a valuable property. This could be nothing more than a cultural misunderstanding.
I have mixed feelings about stories like this. There is sort of a fine line between being a fan of something (tv shows, comuters, cars, etc) and copyright/trademark infringement. In this case, I think that Fuji Television is going a little overboard. It is hard to say for sure, however, without having seen the fan sites.
If you are truly unhappy about the situation, take the time to write a letter or send an e-mail to the Food Network as well as FujiTV and tell them that you wil no longer watch the show nor will you patronize any of the shows sponsors.
Yeah, sure, these people may be 'infringing on their trademarks' or some other crap like that, but wouldn't having these sites be good publicity for the show? Companies pay LOTS of money to get commercials aired so they can get their show known, but then they go around shutting down hundreds of fan-sites which do absolutely nothing negative toward the show, and quite possibly make the show more known.
Guess Fuji TV finds it logical, though.
-- Dr. Eldarion --
Honestly, that has to be one of the most ignorant PR moves of the year.
So long as the fan sites aren't using the images, sound clips, etc. to blast the show then isn't this basically free advertising on the 'net for Iron Chefs? Why yes Bob, I believe that it is. So, instead of rejoicing that viewers thought so much of the show that they were willing to dedicate hours of work to honor it, Fuji TV decides that having loyal fans is a Bad Thing (TM). I think that their ratings are about to go South.
~CalibanDNS
*sigh* Don't they ever learn? Why don't they
take the more laid-back approach that J. Michael
Stranzynski did with Babylon 5 websites? They
are only hurting themselves by alienating their
core audience.