Thanks for the link. I'm going to follow this out a bit more, but off the cuff...
The article basically says that he totally denies the fact that he had anything to do with the incident in which the woman was killed.
... the whole situation begs the question of whether or not the bombing was done by McDs or their minions soley to discredit Bove and his group. This sort of thing seems to be de riguer for US corporations and their enforcement wing, the US Federal Govt....
I would love to know why people are defending this person despite the fact that he at least had something to do with the murder of a person.
It seems fairly obvious that people are supporting him because they feel they have common cause with him. I can can definitely support bulldozing a McD's, or blowing up a silo full of GM corn. That's basic eco-terrorism. Expect to see a lot more of it in the future, as more and more people realized just how little their lives are worth to the corps and the govt....
As for the murder, I think it remains to be seen who is guilty of that particular death.
It is a demonstrable fact, however, that McD is guilty of massive environmental and economic abuses that can and will casue many thousands, if not millions, of deaths. This has been demonstrated repeatedly.... I seriously doubt that Bove is himself capable of destruction on the scale of a corp the size of McD. Certainly, to McD, the death of a single emlployee is nothing. They get that all the time. Robberies, etc. Usually they don't even pay a death benefit. They just file an insurance claim and keep on burning rainforest...
It is the sentiment that Bove is expressing that they are trying to squelch, and they would certiainly sacrifice a few wage slaves to accomplish that, imo. Thus my believe that McD is behind the bombing.
Also, trashing someone's private property for a political cause is most definitely not civil disobedience. Please do not tarnish that term.
As I said, I don't know if it qualifies as civil disobedience, but hey, all that tea at Boston was somebody's private property, now wasn't it? So you deplore the Amerikan War for Independence? The Amerikans were traitorous, murdering bastards, after all. If you don't believe it, just ask the Brits who issued the death warrents against them....
"This is not just about food," Bove told the demonstrators. "It is about the struggle of small people, leading simple lives, to free themselves from the dictatorship of the multi-nationals."
Bove is only partially right, I think. I mean have you ever had to eat that shit McD passes off as food?
Good work, Dr Katz.
Lydia sez: "Their buns suck, their hamburgers are too thin, the services sucks, and Ronald McDonald's ugly face is disturbing to look at while eating... and those little tiny onions they put on the burger without asking, the ones you can't scape off... that is so annoying! -_-"
This message brought to you from the voices in my head.
Trashing a McDonalds and being possibly responsible for the murder of a 28-year-old woman is not civil disobedience. It is fucking murder plain and simple.
Could you elucidate on the murder charge? I admit I am not terribly familiar with the case, but this is the first I've heard of any possibility of murder involved. Apparently the French govt is bringing murder charges...?
As for trashing a McD... well, I don't know if it's civil disobedience or not, but it sure sounds like a rollicking good time, to me....
Your thesis has yet to be tested because the Linux desktop (and the unix desktop generally) is just now reaching the point where it has enough apps with the necessary cohesiveness for general desktop use. The Linux desktop has NOT to date been competetive with MS and Apple either in terms of having the needed applications or the overall look and feel and ease of use requred.
Frankly, I don't believe any thesis concerning Linux has been demonstrated. I will note, however, since you seem to have completely disregarded my points in favor of a more contentious discussion of the relative merits of Linux, that my thesis was not concerning linux alone, and in fact, it has been tested and shown true repeatedly. I will not attempt to document this to your satisfaction, since it is a well established priniciple of marketting, and I ain't yer momma to look this stuff up for you...
Addressing your assertion that Linux is not competitive with other OSs for the reasons you cite: Your position is popular, but I personally don't buy it. I'm sure that there are others who have seen through it as well.
I feel that the position your have adopted is a fairly transparent attempt to sucker Linux developers into producing apps that mimic other OS's, something that I don't care to see happen, and is bad for the entire Linux community, imo. As you say, this will be borne out, or not, over time. I think the Mozilla effort is a good example, though. A massive developement effort, that even after several years has yet to produce a marketable product. If M$ and others can keep linux developers spinning their wheels like that, linux will die on the vine...
It will take another few months (that's not far off) for you to see for yourself that when Linux has the apps, the people will come, and the low cost will be all the more incentive, just as it has been on the server side.
Strangely enough, I've been hearing this for at leat 4 years now. Perhaps I will 'see', but as I said, I don't think lack of apps is the problem. And, as I said above, I don't think ease of use is the problem either. These are specious arguments, as you would know if you use Linux much. Certainly these same arguments have been used repeated to influence first-time computer buyers, newbies, etc. The fact of the success of that usage does not make them overwhelming, or even true.
In short, people don't want 'free'. This idea is not just something I dreamed up on my own, and as I said above it is a thesis that definitely has been tested. In fact, I think pretty much any marketting type can tell you that in this consumerist society, people inherently distrust 'free'. That's true across the board, not just in the software industry. Your assertions and predictions do nothing to change that.
Re:Hey! *I* just read this book
on
Calculating God
·
· Score: 1
I also thought the "fundies" were a little overdone, especially since they didn't really contribute to the climax. On the other hand, the author is from Canada: if all you know of these whackos is what you read in the papers, the characters seem realistic.
Having lived among real, honest-to-god, monotheistic, bible-thumping, woman-hating, witch-burning, racist, sexist, jesus-loving, allah-praising backstabbing, fundies for the best part of 4 decades, I don't believe that an author could overdo a fundie character to the point where it was unrealistic. At least, not and get published. Even work that goes as far as realism with these types gets quashed.
'Religious extremest' does NOT mean 'a very religious person'. It refers to people who are often heavily armed, and are ready willing and eager to kill non-believers in the name of the 'God of Love', whether it's by medieaval torture, bombing an abortion clinic, sniping off a doctor, or just burning down your house after you've been drugged unconcious.
Imagine the hew and cry that will result when the non-xtians/non-muslims begin to shoot back... then it'll be called 'religious persecution'.
what Linux really needs is a vector graphics tool that outputs to the Web
XFig. A way under-rated tool, imo. Should get a lot more attention than it does. If it had as much support as Gimp seems to, it would sweep the market. Here's a link:
1. create scandalous, obscene, defamatory or immoral works using the Image(s) nor use the Image(s) for any other purpose which is prohibited by law;
Good grief! I sure am glad this kind of crap only applies to software! What if cameras or film came with this kind of a license? Or pens and pencils. Thanks the Goddes this whole computer/network/internet thing is just a passing fad... imagine what it would be like if this kind of idiocy wormed its way into real life!
Ford sues you for speeding, a "purpose prohibited by law" in violation their EULA
Netscape sues me for making defamatory posts to/. , a "purpose prohibited by law" in violation their EULA
Ace hardware sues me for using a box cutter I purchased from them to remove mattress tags; a "purpose prohibited by law" and a clear violation of the EULA printed on the reciept...
There's a profit to be made out of this somewhere, if you're sleazy enough...
It seems to me as if the Linux culture is based around everything being for free.
You are not alone in this perception. In fact I think that most of the general public never really get past the idea of the OS being free. It makes them nervous. They feel that if they pay, then they can expect better products/support. Whie that perception is certainly flawed it is the way many people think...
Another key factor is that most commercial software packages do not make their fortunes selling boxed software to individuals. They make the real money licensing software to corporations.
That is the real weak spot in getting Linux on the desktop. Until Linux is widely used by corporations that license thousands of copies of whatever software they use, producing shrink-wrapped, commercial Linux software will be a low margin business. Once Linux products acquire a reasonable share of the corporate market, use by individuals will snowball, and the commercial Linux applications market will be as viable as with any other OS.
I believe the main thing standing in the way of this right now is the unwillingness of suits to accept Linux as a legitimate product, which goes directly back to the point I mentioned first, that people don't trust a free product.
In fact, many users (corp or individual) will put themselves thru all manner of contortions in order to hide from themselves the fact that they were ripped off when they bought a commercial package.
This is true not just in the world of computing. It is human nature. Often times, a persons self-esteem or professional reputation is dependent on the perception that they made a right decision. They cannot admit that they could have gotten a better product for less (or for free) because it would mean admitting that they were wrong...
An example: I know of at least one major US corp whose policy disallows Linux, per se, but allows ports Linux-native apps to Solaris. While the ports are pretty trivial, the relative cost is not.
IMO, the best thing that could happen right now to further acceptance of Linux would be the appearance of some reasonably priced, commercially shrink-wrapped linux versions of some trusted and useful software packages. KDE/KOffice would spread faster if Joe Shmoe IT guy could write a purchase order for 500 copies and have a reasonable expectation of getting something that Sally Secretary could use, and that would make him look good to his bosses. If the product is free, he is going to have to ask permission to bring it in, and sooner or later some one is going to ask "where'd this come from" and they're going to wind up thinking it was created by a bunch of weirdo interenet geek/hacker types, and want it of the LAN on general pricipals.
A couple tangental points:
Running Linux is hardly free. I pay for hardware, bandwidth, and software (when I can get it). It is a lot cheaper than running e.g Windoze, but owning and operating any kind of a system is never 'free'.
I will always have issues with companies like Corel, AutoCAD, and others who want to charge more for one copy of their software than I paid for all the hardware on my LAN combined. Overpriced is overpriced, no matter what OS you run.
I just happened to see your message. It is nice to know that all americans are law abiding citizens.
Why would you care?
Well we get a lot of your TV crap.
You have my sympathy. But please, it not my tv crap; I neither produce it nor comsume it. You'd be more accurate to say 'amerikan tv crap', or 'amerikan tv', since 'tv crap' is redundant with 'amerikan tv'.
We see what cheap thrills your cops get when chasing sometime law abiding citizens.
Like most non-amerikans, you confuse amerikan television with amerika. This is understandable, since the amerikan govt and amerikan corporations spend billions each year to make sure that you do. Nevertheless, I feel obligated to point out that your observation of media propaganda doesn't confer knowledge of the subject. I.e. You don't know what you're talking about if your your only knowledge of amerika is from television.
...We also heard of 15 bullets being pumped into a citizen because he put his hand in his pocket.
Yes, and it is the citizens that I was talking about. Your brief recitation doesn't even begin to address the abuses taking place here. So what's your point?
My point was that M$ are criminals, amerikans are sick of them, and you are welcome to them, if you want them. This was a direct response to a pitiful attempt to chastize amerikans for not venerating M$ -- a criminal organization.
Are you even aware of your own dissembling, here, or did you just skip logic because M$ doesn't require it?
If you are worried about police state conditions in the US, that doesn't fit at all with the initial pitiful attempt to support M$, since M$ preys on the citizenry, just like the police state does.
Just happened to look here did not expect this message to be around so long.
I guess more than a day is a long time to someone whose weak logic skills limit their attention span...
I understood quite well. Perhaps you didn't say exactly what you meant? I was just seeing the humor in taking what you said literally... sorry.
The two parties that make up the government of the US are very much in partnership with the ruling party, you are right; but strictly speaking, they are separate parties, kinda like the Crips and the Bludz. They are essentially in the same business, but they are not the same entity (at least last I heard People and Folk hadn't merged, that could've changed, I suppose).
I do think there is a ruling "party" that governs the two party system, though. They are the ones who choose the 'candidates', determine the 'winners', design the 'spin', and write the 'histories'. fwiw.
My biggest concern is that soon we'll have an entire generation of programmers that has no idea (much less cares) what really happens under the hood.
Unfortunately, this has already happened, to a large extent. Ultimately, this will benefit M$. They are afraid pf programmers who are capable of reverse engineering their code, or duplicating the functionality of their programs. If programmers as a group were as savvy as they were 10 years ago (e.g. expected to have an intimate knowledge of the system), M$ would already have been annihilated. M$ knows this, which explains why they spend so much to cripple computer science education.
I know of one college which put thier Sun machines under lock and key to make sure that the CS students worked in the Wintel lab donated by...
The dumbing down of the profession is the M$'s single biggest and most visisble achievement. They'll be wantin to collect on that investment.
Er, no actually I don't believe I mentioned portability once.
...sorry, I didn't mean you, personally... just trying to point out that using a "DLL" is more portable across platforms than hardcoding platform specific stuff into the executable...
My goddess, YU, what makes you think the arbitrary designations of some frequency geometry by a bunch of pathetic Euro classicists has anything to do with real music?
Is anybody really surprised?
No. Additionaly FUD from M$ seldom surprises anyone.
does the language attempt to be useful without a class library?
If the language provides builtin COM support, your class library on the Windoze platform would be all the apps that support COM. What else could you possibly you need?
Java may well have JNI for dropping to native code; but you have to write a separate DLL for that. C# doesn't require this; you just mark a method as "unsafe", and all of a sudden, you're programming to the metal.
...and you were saying about portablity? Hah. There's about as much chance that C# programs won't use 'unsafe' as there was that MS-DOS programmers were going to use the BIOS for IO instead of writing to screen memory.
I was going to nominate 'Microsofteese', but must I defer to the more accurate nomentclature you suggest... I think it should be one word, though -- "Ceeshit"; southerners can pronounce it "Ceeshee-aye-eet".
Slashdot Mirror
I forget who said it, but it's a truism.
And it's not about trashing stuff you "don't like", it's about trashing stuff that damages your quality of life or is physically dangerous to you.
McD, hormone tainted meat, and GM crops all qualify on both counts.
As for the murder, I think it remains to be seen who is guilty of that particular death.
It is a demonstrable fact, however, that McD is guilty of massive environmental and economic abuses that can and will casue many thousands, if not millions, of deaths. This has been demonstrated repeatedly.... I seriously doubt that Bove is himself capable of destruction on the scale of a corp the size of McD. Certainly, to McD, the death of a single emlployee is nothing. They get that all the time. Robberies, etc. Usually they don't even pay a death benefit. They just file an insurance claim and keep on burning rainforest...
It is the sentiment that Bove is expressing that they are trying to squelch, and they would certiainly sacrifice a few wage slaves to accomplish that, imo. Thus my believe that McD is behind the bombing.
As I said, I don't know if it qualifies as civil disobedience, but hey, all that tea at Boston was somebody's private property, now wasn't it? So you deplore the Amerikan War for Independence? The Amerikans were traitorous, murdering bastards, after all. If you don't believe it, just ask the Brits who issued the death warrents against them....Good work, Dr Katz.
Lydia sez: "Their buns suck, their hamburgers are too thin, the services sucks, and Ronald McDonald's ugly face is disturbing to look at while eating... and those little tiny onions they put on the burger without asking, the ones you can't scape off ... that is so annoying! -_-"
This message brought to you from the voices in my head.
As for trashing a McD... well, I don't know if it's civil disobedience or not, but it sure sounds like a rollicking good time, to me....
So there's another wide open hacking opportunity here: black market retinal implants that provide a user defined response to retinal scanners. Cool.
Addressing your assertion that Linux is not competitive with other OSs for the reasons you cite: Your position is popular, but I personally don't buy it. I'm sure that there are others who have seen through it as well.
I feel that the position your have adopted is a fairly transparent attempt to sucker Linux developers into producing apps that mimic other OS's, something that I don't care to see happen, and is bad for the entire Linux community, imo. As you say, this will be borne out, or not, over time. I think the Mozilla effort is a good example, though. A massive developement effort, that even after several years has yet to produce a marketable product. If M$ and others can keep linux developers spinning their wheels like that, linux will die on the vine...
Strangely enough, I've been hearing this for at leat 4 years now. Perhaps I will 'see', but as I said, I don't think lack of apps is the problem. And, as I said above, I don't think ease of use is the problem either. These are specious arguments, as you would know if you use Linux much. Certainly these same arguments have been used repeated to influence first-time computer buyers, newbies, etc. The fact of the success of that usage does not make them overwhelming, or even true.In short, people don't want 'free'. This idea is not just something I dreamed up on my own, and as I said above it is a thesis that definitely has been tested. In fact, I think pretty much any marketting type can tell you that in this consumerist society, people inherently distrust 'free'. That's true across the board, not just in the software industry. Your assertions and predictions do nothing to change that.
'Religious extremest' does NOT mean 'a very religious person'. It refers to people who are often heavily armed, and are ready willing and eager to kill non-believers in the name of the 'God of Love', whether it's by medieaval torture, bombing an abortion clinic, sniping off a doctor, or just burning down your house after you've been drugged unconcious.
Imagine the hew and cry that will result when the non-xtians/non-muslims begin to shoot back... then it'll be called 'religious persecution'.
'I've got yer Armageddon right here...' -asatru
I am not affiliated, etc....
There's a profit to be made out of this somewhere, if you're sleazy enough...
Another key factor is that most commercial software packages do not make their fortunes selling boxed software to individuals. They make the real money licensing software to corporations.
That is the real weak spot in getting Linux on the desktop. Until Linux is widely used by corporations that license thousands of copies of whatever software they use, producing shrink-wrapped, commercial Linux software will be a low margin business. Once Linux products acquire a reasonable share of the corporate market, use by individuals will snowball, and the commercial Linux applications market will be as viable as with any other OS.
I believe the main thing standing in the way of this right now is the unwillingness of suits to accept Linux as a legitimate product, which goes directly back to the point I mentioned first, that people don't trust a free product.
In fact, many users (corp or individual) will put themselves thru all manner of contortions in order to hide from themselves the fact that they were ripped off when they bought a commercial package.
This is true not just in the world of computing. It is human nature. Often times, a persons self-esteem or professional reputation is dependent on the perception that they made a right decision. They cannot admit that they could have gotten a better product for less (or for free) because it would mean admitting that they were wrong...
An example: I know of at least one major US corp whose policy disallows Linux, per se, but allows ports Linux-native apps to Solaris. While the ports are pretty trivial, the relative cost is not.
IMO, the best thing that could happen right now to further acceptance of Linux would be the appearance of some reasonably priced, commercially shrink-wrapped linux versions of some trusted and useful software packages. KDE/KOffice would spread faster if Joe Shmoe IT guy could write a purchase order for 500 copies and have a reasonable expectation of getting something that Sally Secretary could use, and that would make him look good to his bosses. If the product is free, he is going to have to ask permission to bring it in, and sooner or later some one is going to ask "where'd this come from" and they're going to wind up thinking it was created by a bunch of weirdo interenet geek/hacker types, and want it of the LAN on general pricipals.
A couple tangental points:
Running Linux is hardly free. I pay for hardware, bandwidth, and software (when I can get it). It is a lot cheaper than running e.g Windoze, but owning and operating any kind of a system is never 'free'.
I will always have issues with companies like Corel, AutoCAD, and others who want to charge more for one copy of their software than I paid for all the hardware on my LAN combined. Overpriced is overpriced, no matter what OS you run.
Dilbert wuz here
My point was that M$ are criminals, amerikans are sick of them, and you are welcome to them, if you want them. This was a direct response to a pitiful attempt to chastize amerikans for not venerating M$ -- a criminal organization.
Are you even aware of your own dissembling, here, or did you just skip logic because M$ doesn't require it?
If you are worried about police state conditions in the US, that doesn't fit at all with the initial pitiful attempt to support M$, since M$ preys on the citizenry, just like the police state does.
I guess more than a day is a long time to someone whose weak logic skills limit their attention span...Ritalin. The wetware mod for Windoze.
The two parties that make up the government of the US are very much in partnership with the ruling party, you are right; but strictly speaking, they are separate parties, kinda like the Crips and the Bludz. They are essentially in the same business, but they are not the same entity (at least last I heard People and Folk hadn't merged, that could've changed, I suppose).
I do think there is a ruling "party" that governs the two party system, though. They are the ones who choose the 'candidates', determine the 'winners', design the 'spin', and write the 'histories'. fwiw.
I know of one college which put thier Sun machines under lock and key to make sure that the CS students worked in the Wintel lab donated by...
The dumbing down of the profession is the M$'s single biggest and most visisble achievement. They'll be wantin to collect on that investment.
Glad to see you made it back, btw...
The Baez concert last year was a lot better. I did some Perl right before we went in and saw god...
sorry, I couldn't resist...
I was going to nominate 'Microsofteese', but must I defer to the more accurate nomentclature you suggest... I think it should be one word, though -- "Ceeshit"; southerners can pronounce it "Ceeshee-aye-eet".