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Corel releases Photo-Paint for Linux for Free
Corel has released Photo-Paint for Linux for free. You can go to their web site and download it (there are packages for RPM and DEB although its compressed with .tar.gz). Good work, Corel. Their FTP seems to be full, so could someone make a mirror please?
Full version: ftp://ftplinux2.corel.com/pub/linux/PhotoPaint9/Co relPHOTOPAINT9Lnx.tar.gz
or
or
I'd say there IS a market for commertial apps on linux. And why not? Linux is a better OS than most, and the OS is free. But when I show the GIMP to photoshop users, they don't get it. You could sell them $600 worth of photoshop regardless of the os it runs on.
$.02, -=nft1999=-
"We must be the change we wish to see in the world." -Gandhi
I like GIMP and everything, but It'll be nice to have some (ahem.) competition in the Linux Graphics market. I do all my webdesign on a Linux box, and have been using either dreamweaver/fireworks running on VMware and Windows, or GIMP for graphics.
count me as a Happy Camper!
"If voting could really change things, it would be illegal. " - Revolution Books, NY
Well, I didn't say that only programmers use Unix. I said it is designed for programmers, by programmers. That other people use it is not denied, but they use it because its a good OS.
:) Its much more flexible.
You have a point about unix dying out, but it is tangential to my point. My point was about the core users of Linux/Unix being programmers and hence the killer apps being programming tools.
If you need apps for different purposes, either write them yourself/pay someone to write them/wait for someone else to do that.
With the tools available, you have the first choice too.
Well, when you want to present project ideas to more programmers over a network, HTML works better.
I can throw myself at the ground, and miss.
Well, its an anonymous ftp site, so what's the big deal?
There's still a lot to do before it can really compete with professional vector drawing programs, but my users seem to be quite satisfied with what it already offers.
I'm the only developer, so any help to improve it would be appreciated.
Right. So the software that allows you to actually *accomplish something* is all shite, and the software that is merely designed to *enable* the useful stuff is great?
What Linux needs is not more legacy comercial software. ... What Linux need is to continue its high standards and the world will change around it.
Whatever. If you want to change the world, you have to affect the majority of people. To affect the majority of people, you need to actually touch their lives somehow. Linux is a great tool for a few particular jobs - servers, development, geek-toy. I'm a designer. Linux is absolutely out of the question, much as I'd like it not to be.
I need Illustrator (or an equivalent vector gfx app). I need an excellent and flexible raster imaging app. I need full featured, reliable, plugin-friendly audio editing apps, and a working sequencer. And something that's in perpetual development with out-of-date "stable" releases, that may not eventually be maintained (and this happens on a much shorter timescale than in the commercial world), is not suitable for professional work.
Quit deceiving yourself. Linux is great, sure. No argument there. And I appreciate all the work that goes into open source apps - and some of them are excellent, unparalleled even. But Linux is not everything, and open source isn't either.
Linux does not need to become what it's fighting against.
Why not let it be everything that it already is, and more? If the OS/FS movements are as strong as you think they are, take a cue from Microsoft - embrace, extend, and extinguish commercial software.
Typing, by the way, I can do on my TRS-80, or even a typewriter. Wow.
Well, loki is seeling it's products, and not cheap, too (espoecially because i found no linux game warez sites, not that i would use anything illegal :). But they are contributing to linux comunity (firs of all they are bringing us games, than there is 'Setup'). I am ready to buy their games simply because of that (i'm just waiting for some money to drop to my pocke :) :) :)
I would go out and by $50 Internet Explorer for linux if M$ would also port DirectX to linux (no, i wouldn't use IE, since i used netscape under wintendo, too). Simply to show them that their investion is rewarded. (i'll pretend i do not hate them
just my 50^(-1) bucks
---
Actually, I'd guess that was phrased correctly the first time. I'm constantly going between Illustrator and Photoshop - the interoperability of vector and raster editing apps is extremely important.
Native file formats are horribly important too, but not as important as being able to do all your work in the first place... it's not as important for me to be able to translate correctly between Illustrator and Freehand. (Damn good thing too - thank you so much, Macromedia. OT- why is Illustrator more successful exporting SWF than Freehand?)
[|]
No, you just have to do a lot of attempts. I'm getting it right now, using wget. It's dog slow though.
GNU/Linux. The Freshmaker.
From the BeOS FAQ: "BeOS supports ATAPI and SCSI Zip drives...." I knew I shoulda gone SCSI :)
Insanity is the last line of defence for the master diplomat. But you have to lay the groundwork early.
I too got bounced from the links above . . .
but a little snip from the url gave me ftp://ftplinux2.corel.com/pub/linux/PhotoPaint9/
which seems to be fine to show all the DL's you might want
(FYI : 1.CorelPHOTOPAINT9Lnx.tar.gz (182,520 KB) - A complete archive that will install on both Debian-based and RPM-based distributions
2.CorelPHOTOPAINT9LnxDEB.tar.gz (91,989 KB) - Will install on Debian-based distributions (e.g. Corel® LINUX® OS, Debian GNU/Linux)
3.CorelPHOTOPAINT9LnxRPM.tar.gz (92,601 KB) - Will install on RPM-based distributions (e.g. Red Hat, SuSE, Linux-Mandrake, TurboLinux, Caldera OpenLinux)
May save you some time too :)
Only why is it that I get the idea in my head all these WINE ports are designed to cripple acceptance of Linux on the desktop.
I mean fill the machine up with emulated boatware to the point it chokes . . . won't Win2k suddenly look efficient and attractive (*NOT*, but you get the point?)
I agree with the Abandonware comments elsewhere *but* not for financial health reasonsUntil Corel does a native port they haven't abandoned PhotoPaint, they've abandoned Linux
Maybe they'll pull out a native version for $$$$$ just as soon as they get a user base, but only much, much later on.
Thanks dude.
No wonder you're not getting moderated up. Every moderator's probably too busy leeching from you, or trying to get into the elite 15 users allowed. (:
Bart
xpaint has a great functionality for "pixel-image drafting", as opposed to traditional vector drafting (xfig, xcircuit), pixel-image drawing (gimp, at some extent xpaint) and image processing with effects (gimp, at some extent xv). I won't use gimp to draw a image map for navigational diagram for a web page that consists of few boxes and lines, to combine few images, etc., just like I won't use xpaint for a circuit diagram (xcircuit), some block diagram (xfig), "fancy" buttons for the same web page (gimp) or photo retouching (gimp).
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Wonder why MacDonalds has server 900million people? Maybe because it is the best food?
Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
The last release on Windows could do layers, so I'm going to go out on a limb, make and ass out of U and me and assume this Linux version does too--after all, isn't it just a Windows version ported with compatibility libraries (i.e., Wine)?
I'm wondering how many of the neat filters that ship with the Windows version come with the free Linux version. The Win version has Terrazzo and Impressionist, which while not terribly practical are a hoot to play with. ^_^
G
Without wine, that is its developers and the masses of linux users who tested it (gratis), Corel wouldn't be able to develop anything for Linux, due to the very high costs involved (code forking + 50% rewrite, maybe).
Releasing the FIRST VERSION of their first linux products for free can be seen as a gift to the community that helped them.
After that, if you need the new versions (remember, noone will force you to upgrade to linux 2001 with new and incompatible syslibs) you can buy them, if you're done with the old one, fine.
Ciao,
Rob!
AniToolBox! An Open Source animation program!
I would imagine that Corel is trying to "get in on the ground level" of Linux. They want to get everyone hooked on using their distro/apps early on - hence giving them away - then later charge for them.
They must see Linux as taking over Windows in the next few years, so they want to have deep roots in before the whole industry turns to Linux.
The basic sleazeware produced in a drunken fury by a bunch of UCBerkeley grad students was still the core of BIND. --PV
Another question: Are there many truly new programs coming out these days? By that I mean programs that serve a function no program has served before. It seems to me that a lot of non-game commercial software is office stuff or communication stuff, and there's already a vast array of those. And if anything really new does come out, it's rarely (ever?) available on Linux right away, and by the time someone does get around to porting it twelve OS projects are already underway to clone it.
-Erf C.
-Erf C.
Cthulu always calls collect...
Corel might not make any money off this, but they will be off the stuff they just assimilated from Metacreations...Corel now owns Kai's Power Tools and Vector Effects, Bryce, and Painter.
obTroll: I will take these hot grits from you with my hand, and pour them down my pants.
This is the greatest testament to the success of Gimp I have seen yet. Basically Corel is saying "look you have Gimp so it's tough to sell you Photopaint. Instead we are going to give it away and hope you come back to purchase those things with cash value on the Linux market.
This is not new for Corel. This is the same company that for years gave away older versions of Corel draw with Diamond Video cards. Some motherboards come with Perfect Office 8 and there is a deal that should see Corel Linux and Office for Linux distributed in the same way. I haven't seen any signs of that yet though.
It's sad but one consequence of Linux' rapid growth is that Corel will likely go under before Microsoft is able to clearly measure our impact on the desktop. KOffice will be the next Office Suite to dominate the market and even that will not have the percentages that MSOffice holds now. My advise to Corel is to help out. Do your damnedest to work with everyone else who needs to Import MSOffice files and work with some kind of standard XML.
If file formats are removed as a serious market factor then Corel will be able to squeeze 4 or 5 years of solid sales out of it's clear user interface and strong feature set lead. Otherwise it will get crushed between MSOffice and KOffice.
PS : I do know about Gnome Office but it has quite a ways to go before it is near the Office of today. The main problem is that GOffice was designed and built in different camps with varied loyalty to the Gnome core. Eventually the various parts will be fully integrated but since they were not designed that way from the ground up it will take time.
I only hope they and KDE work towards a standard XML interpretation. That way I can continue to share even the most complex of documents with others regardless of what they choose.
As for the others. Applix and StarOffice both want to become the next MSOffice and dominate in the same proprietary way. This is why they are doomed to the same fate as OS/2. Corel at least is desperate enough to and well designed enough to look at such radical options.
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
Honest, I'm not trying to troll. It's just that this story is the latest to make me wonder about the financial viabillity of Linux as a targetted OS for commercial software.
I don't think this is a troll. It's a perfectly valid question and basically the same question I asked myself when I read this.
If these companies keep giving everything away free, there is no way they can maintain financial viability. Giving Photo-Paint away free is hardly going to get Corel out of the financial hole they are in now. Giving Photo-Paint for Linux away free is going to backfire on Corel and the linux software market in general.
I look on Corel's website and notice that the same software for Windows costs $495 or $149 for upgrade. A quick glance and one might think 'hey, why pay $500 for the windows version when I can get the linux version for free?'. This is all well and good in the short term, but what is going to happen is that software developers will look at this and think 'why should I develop a Linux version of Foo Program if no one will pay money for it when people are willing to fork over $500 for the Windows version?'
Now this isn't to say I want to pay $500 for a paint program. But I *AM* willing to pay something. If they made this software [for both platforms] available on their eStore for a reasonable price [say, $20-$50] then I think in the long run it would be better for the Linux software industry. At the very least, selling a product for $20 as opposed to giving it away would at least slow Corel's downward spiral if not stop it.
Are there ANY Linux software companies that are making a profit? I don't mind paying for software but jeez that crap is so expensive! $99 for an upgrade to Windoze?!? $500 for a drawing program? People are lucky to be able to afford a computer let alone $500 for a drawing program [yeah it's cheaper than others...they're overpriced too :) ]
Ender
Nothing to see here
Also try out Text F/X which is also powered by Corel PHOTO-PAINT 9. This is really cool for web designers. Create your text, choose the font and size and run various effects on it. For awesome 3D results, click the Plastic checkbox.
Looking for political forums? Check out "The World Forum".
Dude - that tarball has the other dists included with it... just unzip them... Might be able to save bandwidth that way.
Sheesh, lots of wine stuff in there. I assume that all GPL issues are taken care of?
If you don't want to use IE you don't have to. Sure it's on your harddrive, but in that state, it is simply a COM HTML rendering engine. Kind of like the KParts based HTML renderer that Konqueror is. Actually, exactly like the KParts based HTML renderer that Conqueror is. The point is, that this is an unfair business practice from an ethical point of view. If MS decided to make Office free for Windows, but not for Mac, then /. and Janet Reno would be up in arms. In this case, however, its the "good guy" being unfair, thus everything is hunky dory.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
last gnu/linux distro i bought was redhat 4.2 since that i have been using debian (downloading it from net). i prefer to spend my money on linux games from loki :) (even if i can easily download them from warez sites....)
-- http://electronicintifada.net --
try doing the following:
/usr/bin/X11/wine /usr/bin/X11/wine.bogus /usr/bin/X11/wine-strip /usr/bin/X11/wine
mv
ln -s
Essentially, the wine executable that ships with Mandrake is a shell script that calls the wine-strip executable. This could be fouling up somehow. They apparently do this so you don't have to issue command-like arguments such as "-debug" or "-winver win98". Ugh.
Its hard to sell a product when your competitor is giving theirs away for free.Just ask Netscape.
Ask Opera Software. Supply a better product, and they will pay.
vr
There's no other price they could offer it where I'd take it over The Gimp / Photoshop / just about anything.
:)
Maybe not even free, but this way I'll at least try it eventually.
---
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
that has to be the weakest troll I've read in a while. Practice makes perfect.
who gives a crap about other architectures?
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Ahh, silly me.
That's for damn sure. Of course, you'd probably buy a special screwdriver attachment for a hammer -- what happened to right tool for the job?
(I was going to to a comparasion, but there doesn't seem to be any feature list on Corel's page for the program. Is there a list of features anywhere?)
I don't make my windows boxes serve, and I don't use linux for the desktop. If my company had Macs, they'd have their own place, too. It's not like everything has to run every piece of software all the time. Jeeze.
just what I need for my firewall...
my linux boxes are all have server lives. none of them are desktop units.
You know that paper stuff 99% of us don't have enough of?
Microsoft has no choice but to keep raising the price of it's software. Sales volumes are not growing fast enough to justify the stock valuation ( even after 1/2 of it dropped off ). When the total hardware of your PC costs under $300 paying another $300 for OS and Basic Office productivity becomes a pain. Dropping a grand for the retail boxes is just insane.
MS doesn't have features to justify the high sales volumes it has. That is rather the result of nobody else being able to read the files consistently.
All but two of the people I know who bought MSOffice retail did so because they had trouble reading new files. Those two bought it because the older version they had was too unstable to use on the systems they had. One couldn't get Access to start at all.
If and only if the file compatibility issue can be dealt with in a complete and consistent way Microsoft Office will go down and MS won't be able to do much about it.
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
Pretty much every review of WordPerfect for Windows since version 6 reads pretty much the same: "Choose WordPerfect if you haven't standard on a word processor - If you've standardized on Word, it's not worth the effort to switch."
Not good when Word has had an 80%+ marketshare since 1993 or so.
When I hear the word 'innovation', I reach for my pistol.
MicroSoft on the otherhand did overprice Unix versions of their software in order to kill the Unix market. For instance SoftImage (purchased by MicroSoft, later sold to Avid) was less than half as expensive for the NT version, despite the fact that the Unix (actually Irix) version already existed and did not need any work from them (and certainly did not get any!). MicroSoft could have done many other less evil or illogical things (including discontinuing the Unix version) but did this rather convoluted action to try to make NT look better in comparison.
If Corel's programs required some library or proprietary module that was only on Corel Linux I would say they should be screamed at, but their current actions do not seem evil in any way.
Corel didn't really port WordPerfect Office. They just got it to run under WINE. As such, it certainly shouldn't be called "WordPerfect Office for Linux". Is this also a WINE "port" or a real port?
___
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
Based on what you were saying, it sounds like you think they definately won't go bankrupt or out of business. I haven't lost any money until I sell the stock.
It would be great to see them make a come back. As long as they don't go under then it's just a matter of time until they can get back in gear.
So if they were to start GPLing more code, where would they finally start making the cash? GPL until it's popular and then start coming out with some new products to sell?
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
In the meantime, I'm waiting for Adobe or someone else to port Photoshop over to Linux. That'd be a definite purchase on my part.
www.sheepdot.org - Why everyone hates me
It is not illegal to remove your mattress tags after you buy it. The distributers and stores can't remove the tags before sale.
I always tell myself, at least I don't work in a mattress store.
Posted by 11223:
On a related note, Pixel32 has promised a Linux port of their excellent (far better than PhotoPaint, IMHO) photo manipulation program. You can register until the end of July for $32, get the WinDOS version, and then get the BeOS and Linux versions for free later when they come out. (After that it's $50).
And since when is comercial software any better than Open Source Software?
...
Judging by your message, when it's Netscape, Star Office, Word Perfect, etc.
The disadvantages of proprietary software suck (and I say this as someone who develops it), but the advantage of having multiple developers spending 40+ hours a week working on a proprietary program is hard to beat.
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
I'm not even one of these "all things must be under GPL or I will storm the head offices with a flaming pitchfork" types. I have just made the obviously crazy, frivolous decision to use a processor other than the x86. I'd be glad to run it if they would simply compile it for LinuxPPC and let me download the binaries.
I might use WordPerfect too, but wasn't there some sort of security problem if you wanted to do something crazy like let multiple users have access to it?
What is the robbing of a bank, compared to the founding of a bank? -- Bertolt Brecht
Actually they are not giving away all of their apps. They are charging $100 for their office suite, and when Corel Draw comes out they plan on charging roughly the same as they are charging for the Windows version.
.net. I have a feeling that we won't have to worry too much about it, and I'm not implying anything about the trial. MS is pissing too many people off, and this will continue to agrivate them. I have meet too many people who are tired of MS jerking them around, and telling them what to do, and are getting ready to either stop using some of their products or not upgrade. Major companies are starting to look to other solutions, even different Office Suites, because it is becoming too expensive to upgrade, especially now that MS is pulling roving licensing and requiring that every machine that might use Office must have a seperate license. Also with MS not having the same leverage on the OEMs as they used to, they won't be able to force it down everyones throat. It won't fly.
The three things that they have given away, Corel Linux, Photo-Paint, and WordPerfect 8 have been for good reasons. The first two are because the market value of Linux and a product like Photo-Paint is zero, Linux for obvious reasons, and Photo-Paint has to compete with the GIMP.
As for WordPerfect 8, my guess is they wanted to gain their marketshare back. By catering to the Linux community they hoped that people would use it, and then pay for the full WordPerfect Suite 2000, with WP 9. Also, if they want to be able to sell their products they need Linux to grow, and with one of the biggest complaints about Linux being that it has no real commercial and home use products (although FUD, it is what a lot of people believe) they needed to show that there is in fact everything that you can get on Windows for Linux.
As for your question about MS
Disclamer - Opinion of Person
Never underestimate the dark side of the Source
Actually it can't.
Good that you asked this question, because many who are going to d/l it may have the impression that PP8 lacks this functionallity.
The equivalent concept in PP is "objects". You can have many, select which you work on, show or hide, control their transparency, apply drop shadows and merge. Every time you create a new text a new object is created. It's a little clumsy at first but works fine.
I like PP very much, it is one of the very few reasons why I still have a DOS partition. For those with the bandwidth, enjoy!
Hmmmm.... Can photopaint do CMYK color? That's my only beef with Gimp. I didn't see any documentation stating one way or another.
Then simply GO to their website and look..
Hetz (Heunique)
Well, thank you for demonstrating your ignorance. :^P
Just because *distributions* are becoming more consumer-oriented doesn't mean that the *operating system kernel* has changed significantly. It continues to develop in ways advantageous to the hobbyist/researcher/whatever. It's possible to, say, get a kernel and install totally from scratch, just like the first days of Linux.
The bad thing about Windows/MacOS is that these systems still carry the excess baggage from the early personal PC days. Multiple users? Laughable. You may be saying, "But only one person uses my machine at a time." Yeah, but my wife and I have different preferences (me: GNOME/WindowMaker; her: KDE) and different needs. Also, since my darling dearest isn't the most technnically gifted person in the world, it's nearly impossible for her to, say, delete vital system files.
I personally would like to have more commercial software, mainly because I'm a graphic artist by trade, and the lack of tools is appalling. Why commercial, instead of Open Source? Hey, I prefer Open Source too. Remember one example: GIMP doesn't have a CMYK mode for two reasons. One is that it's tough to implement correctly. The second is that it's damn near impossible for them to do so without getting sued for a patent violation. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if I'll have to start building all my PDFs with Acrobat(TM) instead of Ghostscript. Bastards.
I have an old AMD K6/2 350 overclocked to 400 and I find Perfoect Office fo rLinux quite usable It is not appreciably (did I spell that right?) slower an the MS Office bloatware I have to have for work on the NT partiton on the same box. I really do not care, personally, whether the port is native or not, at least not in an absolute sense. I am happy to have quality apps running on my Linux desktop, however they got there. Wine is fine, at least for me. That said, I certainly understand your feelings. I had the same feeling about apps for OS/2 for years. I, like Nick Petrelli, loved OS/2 and the Workplace Shell. However, no apps, no OS. I still have a Warp 4 partition on this box but I only boot to it for nestalgia these days. I personally prefer to have viable apps. The lack of them killed OS/2, the lack of them could kill Linux too.
Why does it matter who's first? The first to get somewhere does not mean they'll be the first to succeed. It just means they were the first to get there. And if you look at the history of computing, someone else always got wherever anyone was going "first", but then for some reason it's almost always Microsoft that steps in and does it second and reaps the rewards after soemone else has already established that there is a demand in the market.
Remember that, as more and more companies scramble over themselves in an attempt to be "first!"
They should be concentrating on making rock-solid products, not just first products in their segemnet, otherwise they'll just be paving the roads for whatever company comes after them with a more polished product.
If Autodesk would port AutoCAD to Linux I'd buy it so fast it would make your head spin. And AutoCAD costs $2500 on the street.
But I suspect, though of course I haven't any hard evidence at all, that Autodesk has a private arrangement with Microsoft. At that time AutoCAD was supported on MS-DOS, Macintosh, and several flavors of Unix. But five or six years later that list of platforms had been whittled down to one: Win32. Just recently Microsoft assimilated Visio, but in the process, for some mysterious reason or another, as part of the deal Visio spun off its Intellicad division, which had been selling a clone of AutoCAD for about the tenth of AutoCAD's price. Now why did they do that? I'm just guessing, but I think that Microsoft long ago agreed not to gobble up Autodesk as an appetizer, as they pretty obviously have been able to do for the last decade, in return for Autodesk dropping all other platforms.
And I also suspect that it's lots of under-the-table business like this, rather than some impalpable attitude problem amongst Linux users with regard to commercial software, that explains why so few vendors of commercial software for Win32 are willing to port their products to Linux. If this is only a paranoid fantasy, then it's one I share with Judge Jackson and the DOJ antitrust division.
Yours WDK - WKiernan@concentric.net
But if there is a "good enough" free package, I'll stick with that.
/. seem to think that the non-MDI interface that is prevelent in X apps is great. I have to agree, but every serious Photoshop user I've shown Gimp to complains about how cluttered things get. It's confusing to them. They don't want to do 20 things at once, and never will.
You may, but Joe Average User won't. There are plenty of "good enough" editors for Windows, yet they still pay for Word.
There are some great apps out there for linux for developers and other geek-like creatures. We create them because we know what we need to do our jobs. The Gimp is fine for the guy creating a logo for his website or for making cool wallpaper, but a graphics designer would have a hard time jumping into it.
Most on
Linux (at least on the desktop) will not survive until we start developing quality apps for the non-geek majority.
Most Open Source programmers don't have the inclination or background to design apps destined for non-geek consumption. This will be our downfall unless we spread the word and recruit outside experts who can share our views to work alongside developers as an integral part of the team.
Coding is the easy part.
I REALLY think Linux would be MUCH better off if there were more grrls involved in software design. I honestly do.
load "linux",8,1
Corel's stock went precipitously up some time ago, based on rumours that they were being bought out by RedHat, then it came down slowly as time went on.
Corel's new to the US exchanges, but it's been around for years in Canada, and for as long as Corel's been around there have been rumours that it is in serious financial trouble and that it's not going to survive beyond the end of the year.
It's a good thing Corel doesn't listen to folks like you, or they would have disappeared back in 1988.... You don't work for Adobe by any chance?
but that's where you're wrong. If you're the average "I need to write a book report" student, you never even notice that KWord has the frames. You just notice that it's cool word processor. And that it integrates very nicely into EVERY other part of the desktop.
However, the frames idea leaves so many possibilities open that it's just too good to pass up. You could (theoretically) embed ShockWave Flash files into your KWord documents. Or put the contents of a word document on the internet as part of a document template HTML page in real time, with updates ocurring as you change the file... it's some crazy awesome stuff. I'm excited.
There is an interview with Cowpland about this very subject in either Linux Journal or Linux Magazine - can't remember which at this moment.
Anyway, he rightly points out that Corel was giving away WordPerfect too - yet people were still buying copies of it.
Hell, The Offspring's Americana album was one of the top mp3's being swapped, yet the album sold many millions of copies.
I too go out and buy packages even though I can download them in a few minutes over the net. I have purchased lots of Linux distros, programs, etc. I could have just as easily spent 14 hours downloading all 6 of the SuSE 6.4 ISO images, yet I went out and paid $35 for the box. Why? Because I wanted to! (Plus, I got some userfriendly.org stickers!)
Red Hat sells lots of boxes, so does Debian, Mandrake, Caldera, and Cheapbytes.
Somebody is buying, because I don't quite have THAT much money!
indeed it can.
since version 7 I think.
well, I could give the links the same way that you did, but people need to accept the end user License Agreement. I know it sounds to some people a bit foolish, but thats their software and thats what their wish.
Hetz (Heunique)
With all respect to those who think this is a positive thing, we must seriously consider whether this isn't so much FreeWare as it is AbandonWare.
A few facts gleaned from The Motley Fool:
In short, I think that Corel is a company that is in serious financial trouble. I think it is far more likely that Corel is doing this not for PR--but because they're going to eliminate PhotoPaint development, support, etc. as part of their announced C$40 million cost-cutting campaign.
Don't get me wrong--I have a lot of regard for Corel. Ten years ago I was writing PostScript code generators for calibrating imagesetting equipment--and developing books and periodicals with Corel Draw and Ventura Publisher (now owned by Corel). I subsequently was a sysop on the VENTURA forum on CompuServe, and did a lot of technical illustration with Corel Draw. I've retouched hundreds of photographs with PhotoPaint.
But I think this is a sign of Corel going into the tank--not a sign of positive developments for Linux at all.
sic transit gloria....
I can't FTP through the firewall at work. Is PhotoPaint available for free download for Windows?
Refrag
I have a website. It's about Macs.
Yeah. Corel would love for everyone to go to Linux. They've already put lots of cash and man-hours into producing their own windows-alike linux distro and porting many of their commercial offerings to linux. It's their plan to put an end to the crap M$ has been able to pull on them in the past, by controlling the OS.
One question for anyone from Corel, when can we expect Ventura for Linux? :^)
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Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
And since when is comercial software any better than Open Source Software? The open source model allows fluid and thorough development of applications. Developers aren't stuck with unattainable deadlines or marketing driven feature requirements. They have the time and resources to create well written code with features sets based on people's actual needs.
I am typing this from my trusty Debian box. Let me state that the comercial software I run on this box (Netscape, Star Office, Word Perfect, etc) crashes and tends to be poorly put together. The Open Source software I run (Debian, Gimp, Enlightenment, etc) runs fabulously & without a hitch!
What Linux needs is not more legacy comercial software. Linux does not need to become what it's fighting against. Linux is changing the way people think about software. What Linux need is to continue its high standards and the world will change around it. (And if you doubt that, just look at the amount of acceptance Linux has gained over the past 3 years.)
that yet another commercial company seeks to look good by releasing closed source binaries that will work only on a single architecture, i.e. the x86 processor series? RARE are the binaries that are compiled to work on PPC or higher end processors. At least with an open source application I can try (and typically succeed) to compile for a "non-standard" machine.
</whining>
I do not have a signature
Gimp has been in feature freeze for the last 3 or so developer versions. As well as being beta tested and heavily debugged. Gimp 1.2 will be here Real Soon Now.
BTW, is it just me, or does PhotoPaint run slower than a slug?
--
Simon
The the Gimp is verry good, free, and popular. Hence to gain a foot hold on Linux they have to give photo-paint away, and hope people will like it so much they will buy the full Draw package.
Can a 13 year old sign a legal document and be held responsible? No. If he is under age his parents or guardian are responsible. Once you hit 18 in the US or 19 in Canada that document will have some merit. Can a minor co-sign your loan? Didn't think so.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
If they need a little coaxing, and don't want to drop Windows, a guy has ported The Gimp to that platform.
GIMP for Win32
I use it and find it to be stable, and at least as rich in features as PSP, if not Photoshop.
I got it to work ok. I just followed the Redhat install via RPM instructions while not installing the 'menu' RPM stuff. Here is a list of what I installed and the order I used:
libwine-graphics9-glibc-2.1
wine-graphics9-glibc-2.1
wpo2000-fonts-core
fonttastic-glibc-2.1
libaps
graphics9-paint
graphics9-common
graphics9-help-paint
graphics9-help-techsupport
graphics9-help-common
I ran it from the K menu too.
--
Simon
Here's a screenshot of Photopaint 9 in action, in case you need it that bad.
Man, Corel had to spend all that money on MetaCreations' products, and now they're going to lay off 320 people and possibly not continue operations past the year-end??
What the hell? I really thought Corel would have more sense than that. I'm more worried about MetaCreations' software - I used to work for MetaCreations. It really saddens me to see such innovative products (not 'Microsoft innovative' - really innovative, both in functionality and user interface) just go down the drain. Corel had better get their act together, or sell those products to a more competent company.
Blast it all to hell.
You should never take life too seriously - You'll never get out of it alive.
The Gimp 1.0 series had an awful mess of a menu structure and insane dialog boxes. The current developer versions leading to 1.2, which are stable enough to use full time, have a vastly improved UI. Some folks who know UI design and commercial raster imaging packages have clearly been pitching in.
It's a shame GPL'ed mainstream-compliant color calibration probably can't be done without intellectual property lawsuits from Pantone. That's the big weakness I see remaining with GIMP.
It's quite obvious that most of the people calling PhotoPaint "mediocre" or comparing it to Gimp have A) Never used PhotoPaint9 and B) Do not use paint programs professionally.
PhotoPaint9 is an excellent program that is an equal to PhotoShop. In some areas it's better than PhotoShop, in some areas it's not as good. And yes, they do sell it seperate from CorelDraw.
GIMP is a paint program for programmers and web graphics. Don't get me wrong. It's a great program, but PhotoPaint and PhotoShop are in a whole different league.
Is the PhotoPaint release for linux the full PhotoPaint9 version, or the Digital Camera Edition?
Richer
Well, it runs with wine I guess, so they didn't really do much in the way with porting, just tinkered it to work well with wine, I'm getting it now, well see how well it runs..... the installer of wp8 from the cd didn't even run, which makes me wonder how well this will work, since it apparently has *.exe's in its dir.
Nuintari has no sig
--Nuintari
slashdot : where an opinion can be wrong.
I don't play games, but my question is this: Are there any games out there that retail for $500?
I really shouldn't have used someone else's email address for this account.
I don't mind paying for software but jeez that crap is so expensive! $99 for an upgrade to Windoze?!? $500 for a drawing program? People are lucky to be able to afford a computer let alone $500 for a drawing program [yeah it's cheaper than others...they're overpriced too :) ].
As an individual, there are precious few pieces of software I'll pay for on a free OS platform, given the free software that is already available. First off, I won't pay for any development tools whatsoever. I love the free stuff much more than I ever did any IDE I've ever used (and paid through the nose for, most times). I also won't pay for office productivity programs - the Lyx is great for the few things I need to prettyprint, while the text tools give me more power than I've had in a long time over every other file. Spreadsheets are different, of course, but then there's Abs and sc, and they're fine for me. The free Email, USENet, and IRC clients are better on the free *nix's than their counterparts on Windows.
So what would I pay for? Well, I'd buy a good vector drawing program for my wife, if there was one. I've tried to get her to use Sketch, but she really wants CorelDRAW! It's the one package she misses from her Windows days.
And yes, I do buy the occasional game from Loki, although they're only installed on my wife's machine. I really don't care very much for today's games.
In short, as a developer, I find nothing lacking in the free *nix world. But, that stands to reason, doesn't it? My wife, as an artist and computer enthusiast, finds the free *nix's to be great OS's with great programs, but she does long for a really good vector drawing tool and the occasional commercial game. And she's willing to pay to get 'em.
Now, to answer the question as to who would buy commercial software for a free OS, I'd say that most of it will be purchased by businesses eventually. I'd love to move us to a rock-solid OS at work, and I'd even keep MS-Office if it was available in a free *nix version. We'd still be better off, and the PHB's would be satisfied.
In the long term, though? I agree with Neal Stephenson's assessement. Any useful piece of software is eventually reimplemented as free software. If the commercial software providers keep sitting on their kiesters, churning out 10 year old software with annual feature upgrades, then eventually they'll be overtaken by freely implemented versions and they'll have no business left.
So in the long term, I see very few mainstream apps being purchased. Shrinkwrap software will just about disappear. Custom and semi-custom software will still be sold to businesses, and shrinkwrapped free software will still be available (as will commercial games), but the rest of the stuff you see in the software department of your local Best Buy will eventually fall by the wayside.
I'll stick to the gimp thank you. 100 MB when it's COMPRESSED. What the hell is in that thing? It better have a complete dictionary for every known human language, as well as true AI and a copy of the human genome for that size.
-- Truth goes out the door when rumor comes innuendo. -- Groucho Marx
Talk about unfair business practices to promote an OS. MS gave away a program to promote Windows (IE) that would cost maybe $50 retail. Here is Corel, giving away something that cost $495 retail! And if you didn't notice, only the Linux version is free. This point, that the Windows version is not-free, points to Corel's business plan. They are using this as a leg up in the emerging Linux market. By keeping the Windows version for pay, they protect a cash cow, while getting the Linux crowd (who don't want to pay for anything :) to jump on their bandwagon. I can assure you, that if Linux comes to even a fraction of the market (say when 25% of Photo-Paint users are Linux users) they will pull out this free thing to protect their money. There will already be an installed base of users, and most will pony up the $495 than bother to switch to another program for their work. This also gives them a leg-up in the market because they're here first. The Linux community seems intensely loyal, and it seems that many will continue to use Photo-Paint, simply because Corel has supported the Linux movement, and even if better products come along. This is demonstrated vivedly in the whole nVidia/3DFx fiasco, people still use 3DFx, even though nVidia is better, just because nVidia doesn't give a damn about OSS.
As for you people bitching about this not being OpenSource, get over yourselves. Corel is releasing a product to further their business. That's what companies do. You can bet that RedHat would close up Linux in an instant (if they were allowed to.) The contingent that won't use PhotoPaint just because it is not OSS is relativly small, and frankly, I doubt Corel cares about you. There is an art of managing consumers. Only cater to those you know can affect your business. The hardcore OSS community is a very small contingent, and thus Corel can piss you off all they want and not affect their business...
Corel (to Stalinite): Ha ha, this isn't Open Source!
Stalinite:No! (Goes over and talks to another user.) Look, they're not releasing this open source. Boycott them. Burn their products!
Normal Consumer:Get away from me! I'll use this product all I want... It's FREE. As in no moolah.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Gimp. That's all you need. Just don't compile in any unnecessary stuff. Of course, I'm a bit biased :)
Corel Photo Paint can do just about everything that Photoshop can do - although I think it is a tad bit clunkier in the UI than Photoshop (I have only used up to 7 though, maybe it is better now).
.eps for Quark.
My biggest problem with Corel Anything is the inter-operability with the other Adobe products, as well as with Page Maker and Quark. It is difficult to go between Illustrator and Photo Paint; just as it is to go between Photoshop and Corel Draw. If you are an illustrator or print designer you are constantly using both, plus Quark - Drawing your illustrations in Illustrator/Corel Draw, rasterizing them, then bringing them into Photoshop/Photo Paint, applying filters, then export into
I forgot where I was going with this, but anyway...
He's got a very good point. If people want commercial software on linux, they're going to have to pay for it. If we want great free software, we're going to have to write it ourselves.
The strength of linux is that open source projects have no development or marketing costs. This is not the case for closed source software shops. This fantasy about big software companies releasing free closed source versions of their software can't last for long. They're only doing this now because the linux market is still growing, so offering free stuff gives them an opportunity to gain market share and recoup the costs later. This is exactly what Corel is doing by giving some products away for free while charging for their other products. They're trying to establish a brand.
Until these companies start adopting open source development methods, they will fail. It just doesn't make sense to spend tons of r&d money on an app to give it away.
ESR makes this very clear here. "When I speak at technical conferences, I usually begin my talk by asking two questions: how many in the audience are paid to write software, and for how many do their salaries depend on the sale value of software. I generally get a forest of hands for the first question, few or none for the second, and considerable audience surprise at the proportion." Corel is filled with people whose income depends on the sale of their software. And so is Deneba...
___________________________
Michael Cardenas
http://www.fiu.edu/~mcarde02
http://www.deneba.com/linux
hyperpoem.net
The product that Corel just released is PhotoPaint *9*, not 8. PP9 has lens flares as one of the built-in effects, so you don't need PhotoShop for that anymore....
The place where PhotoPaint shines over PhotoShop is it's brush support. You can do some extremely cool things with orbits, for example. You can tune pretty much any brush parameter you can think of, and even have some of the parameters vary randomly (within set limits) over the course of the stroke.
And you can paint butterflys with the Image Sprayer. 8-)
PhotoPaint for Linux also comes with a tutorial that shows you how to put together a custom KDE desktop theme.
If Unix ever takes over the business desktop, there will be a market for commercial software. As long as it's only home users that would want tools like this, not many people will be willing to fork over cash. This changes a lot when you can get your company to pay for tools that are supposed to do what you need out of the box, especially if you are using Unix because that's what was on your desk when you showed up, instead of because you're a good hacker and installed it yourself because you know you'd be more productive with it. (good hackers wouldn't be concerned with working right out of the box and all that, because they can fix anything that might go wrong while installing a free tool. (especially if it is a libre-free tool, so they can recompile for their system if necessary, etc.)
#define X(x,y) x##y
#define X(x,y) x##y
Peter Cordes ; e-mail: X(peter@cordes ,
Read more about the linux version here:a tion/Corel_PAINT_9_Linu x/rg-paint-09-lnx-std-na.pdf
http://www.corel.com/Technical_Marketing_Document
It looks like it can import GIMP (xcf) files.
PhotoPaint has support for CMYK, LAB, and 48-bit RGB color, in addition to the standard RGB, greyscale, 8-bit paletted, etc.
It's also got full support for ICC color profiles, which means you can now do professional color output from Linux.
They aren't giving away everything, and they hope to make money on the stuff they are giving away by 'network affect.' Corel has a huge stable of Office/Graphics/DTP programs, most of which haven't been released for Linux yet. What they have given away:
- Work done on WINE to help porting their programs.
- Work done on KDE to offer a more comfortable environment to their existing users.
- WordPerfect. The Word Processor, not the Office Suite. The Suite they charge for, whichever platform.
- The downloadable distribution. They still charge, of course, for shrink wrapped distributions that include their commercial software.
- Now, Photo-Paint. Which is a nice little gadget, but only a component of the commercial product they would like you to buy, CorelDraw. My bet is they intend it mainly as a convincer, to show everyone that they are making progress on CorelDraw for Linux, and that it will be worth buying.
Don't expect to see programs like Bryce, Catalyst, and Ventura to become freeware. Do look for them to be ported to Linux, and do look for Corel to start working out hardware partnerships and trying to convince businesses that use these programs to run them on Linux instead of Windows.=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
...for the info! I'll look into that
What is the robbing of a bank, compared to the founding of a bank? -- Bertolt Brecht
A lot of people using Linux are not interested in buying commercial programs from Corel. They understand that. They are fundamentally trying to convert a good chunk of their current Windows customers to Linux.
Passing out loss-leaders on the platform like candy can only help. After all, a free download costs a heck of a lot less than most physical loss-leaders. And they know M$ and Adobe haven't positioned themselves to chase any customers that go to Linux-land.
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Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
No screen shots or feature lists on the web site??? Clever... Make everyone download it to get even a glimpse at it and stick a banner on the top of the page in the next few weeks saying "Over 10 BILLIONS are now using this product.."
Interesting...
Good for corel! release something "for free"! Now people wont see you as commercial bastards who jumped on the linux bandwagon. wOoOOOoOo!
Many of the design decisions in Linux (including GNU and X11) system are aimed at the power user. I use Linux precisely because its engineering tradeoffs are aimed at the power user.
If we followed your suggestion and "recruit outside experts" who know how to build applications for the "non-geek" majority, we'd end up with a system for the non-geek majority. If I wanted to use that kind of system, I already have multiple excellent choices, foremost Windows and MacOS. Windows and MacOS are well adapted to the needs of non-geek users, and the tradeoffs they made were driven by those needs. If Linux starts seriously addressing those needs as well, it will turn into a system that will not be very different from them. In fact, it has already started, where system administration and other parts of the system are driven by the needs of graphical configuration tools, rather than easy configurability with a text editor.
I don't want Linux to take over the desktop; I'm happy if it merely occupies a niche for powerusers. And I believe that niche can be large enough to keep companies interested in providing drivers and tools.
For someone who feels that they have the knowledge and experience to comment on a program's user interface, you sure do have some language on you.
And, as the other fellow posted, the pre-1.2 series actually has a very nice UI. I havn't had a chance to try PhotoPaint yet, but I bet it's one window with sub-windows inside it, a-la Opera browser. No offense, but that concept was thought up partially due to limits in Windows, and is simply a bad user interface. It sucks up screen real-estate, and makes working with more than one app nearly impossible.
If PhotoPaint has a window for each image being worked on, I apologize.
Dave
Barclay family motto:
Aut agere aut mori.
(Either action or death.)
ok...so I let it download, and finally I have all 182Mb of it. Now to install...WooHoo...it didn't install!!!
/bin/sh to install. HELLO!!! What am I doing wrong? This thing has already PISSED me off!
I use Slack...has anyone else been able to install using Slack? I can't get anything going here. It "tells" me that it installed, but it obviously didn't. I'm being forced to use the RPM manager, and all it does is BITCH to me about things like...need
"Time is long and life is short, so begin to live while you still can." -EV
I'm sure Corel is only laying off those employees because they wanted a nice, round 1000.
It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
Everone always likes to say that it's the music industries fault that people are pirating music over the internet. We say that if they sold stuff digitally at reasonable price people would buy it. However people are always asking about how to get around the EULA of free beer software or trying to get around the login of free services such as the New York Times. If you want the product agree to their terms, otherwise it's stealing. If we'll steal something that's "free" I don't think there is any doubt that selling music online would do anything about piracy
I DO pay for software that's free. I've probably spent more money on free software than I have on commercial software. Personally, I do it for quality media, convenience, and to support software I like. Those people who prefer to pay for software because they think "you get what you pay for" expect the same things as me, plus support (read: someone to yell at or use as an excuse for things not working).
Someday, perhaps, it will go all the way, where software is both free and open source and commercially supported. People who choose not to pay have to really know the software to compile and install; they're probably the best evangelists, product research, and quality control experts any company will ever find (I know from having done tech support that a few knowledgable clients are invaluable for real-world bug-finding). And some people will pay because they don't trust anything that's free. As long as the free software developers find away to provide those people with what they need, they will not only turn free software into money, but they will also convert people who are least inclined to use free software into paying supporters.
The stock market's infatuation with Linux may have abated, but the release of products into Linux-land this way bodes well for the liberation of software from its secretive ivory castles, which is the most important economic reform since the decline of medieval trade guilds (and modern software/internet companies, with broad software patents and so-called intellectual property as weapons against competition, resemble medieval trade guilds very strongly).
Boss of nothin. Big deal.
Son, go get daddy's hard plastic eyes.
Expanding a vast wasteland since 1996.
I have a partial mirror with the tar.gz file on it at ftp://ftp.squadron.org/pub/PhotoPaint9
I'm trying to get the others as well...
this is great news! i've been using Corel Draw since v3...i've always liked it because i does what i want it to when i want it to. maybe other companies will follow this trend ;) then again... well...time to try to find a mirror.
bye,
-jimbo
That's the most retarded thing I've heard.
But I still won't download it. It isn't so much better than the Gimp that it's a "must have" for me. On the other hand, PhotoPaint would take away from the Gimp user community. Every bug report or feature request sent to Corel is a bug report or feature request not sent to the Gimp developers. The more people learn its UI, the less likely they will be to switch to a free software equivalent, no matter how good.
Software lives and dies by its users. The value of Microsoft Office isn't in the software itself (which is mediocre) but in the thousands of hours each serious user has invested in becoming familiar with its UI and quirks, the millions of files people have in its proprietary format, and the bug reports and feedback they have sent to Redmond. Even a very high quality free office suite can't displace MS Office at this point because it won't read all the old data flawlessly and because it just won't be familiar to users, quirks and all.
I'm not religious about not using proprietary software and I do use some. But if there is a "good enough" free package, I'll stick with that. In this case, I think there is. And much as I wish Corel success in general, I still hope others will do the same.
Oooohhh, Painter... my favorite IMP of all time.
I'd love to see a low-cost Painter for Linux (or even Windows), it'd be enough to make me finally install Linux again for the first time in 5 years.
Refrag
I have a website. It's about Macs.
I think the problem you are looking at has more to do with the idea of critical mass than the "give me everything for free" mentality common to a certain segment of the Open Source community.
It takes a certain amount of development capital to build up the foundational pieces for a modern GUI, and Linux is just reaching that point with Gnome and KDE. With the foundations built, however, it becomes progressively easier to deploy the kind of advanced applications which power users and corporations are willing to shell out the bigger bucks for. It also requires a "critical mass" of users willing to shell out the money to make the more advanced development possible.
So perhaps it's a chicken and the egg type thing -- is it "if you build it we will come..." or is it "we'll build it if you'll come..." ??
...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
Sun: .com .net
.org!
M$:
Linux:.??? ->
Stefan
Another key factor is that most commercial software packages do not make their fortunes selling boxed software to individuals. They make the real money licensing software to corporations.
That is the real weak spot in getting Linux on the desktop. Until Linux is widely used by corporations that license thousands of copies of whatever software they use, producing shrink-wrapped, commercial Linux software will be a low margin business. Once Linux products acquire a reasonable share of the corporate market, use by individuals will snowball, and the commercial Linux applications market will be as viable as with any other OS.
I believe the main thing standing in the way of this right now is the unwillingness of suits to accept Linux as a legitimate product, which goes directly back to the point I mentioned first, that people don't trust a free product.
In fact, many users (corp or individual) will put themselves thru all manner of contortions in order to hide from themselves the fact that they were ripped off when they bought a commercial package.
This is true not just in the world of computing. It is human nature. Often times, a persons self-esteem or professional reputation is dependent on the perception that they made a right decision. They cannot admit that they could have gotten a better product for less (or for free) because it would mean admitting that they were wrong...
An example: I know of at least one major US corp whose policy disallows Linux, per se, but allows ports Linux-native apps to Solaris. While the ports are pretty trivial, the relative cost is not.
IMO, the best thing that could happen right now to further acceptance of Linux would be the appearance of some reasonably priced, commercially shrink-wrapped linux versions of some trusted and useful software packages. KDE/KOffice would spread faster if Joe Shmoe IT guy could write a purchase order for 500 copies and have a reasonable expectation of getting something that Sally Secretary could use, and that would make him look good to his bosses. If the product is free, he is going to have to ask permission to bring it in, and sooner or later some one is going to ask "where'd this come from" and they're going to wind up thinking it was created by a bunch of weirdo interenet geek/hacker types, and want it of the LAN on general pricipals.
A couple tangental points:
Running Linux is hardly free. I pay for hardware, bandwidth, and software (when I can get it). It is a lot cheaper than running e.g Windoze, but owning and operating any kind of a system is never 'free'.
I will always have issues with companies like Corel, AutoCAD, and others who want to charge more for one copy of their software than I paid for all the hardware on my LAN combined. Overpriced is overpriced, no matter what OS you run.
Dilbert wuz here
"The Internet is made of cats."
1. You certify that you are not a minor and that you agree to be bound by all of the terms and conditions set out in the license below. downloading and/or using corel photo-paint for linux will be an irrevocable acceptance of the terms and conditions of the license.
Don't they learn?
Come back when you've actually used MS/Office and are knowledgeable about everything it can do
Conversely, have you ever used Corel WordPerfect 9?? As a former legal secretary, I can say with some authority that it is the most sophisticated word processor ever built for the Windows platform.
I haven't done extensive comparison of Quattro Pro/Excel or the schedulers, but the Corel versions always functioned flawlessly.
And, let me tell you, Corel is a lot nicer about converting between formats than M$. I am Jack's Complete Lack of Surprise.
In conclusion, I like Corel. They offer user-friendly, hand-holding GUI stuff with no exploitable paperclips and fewer glitches in general.
"Beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he deems himself your master."
1. create scandalous, obscene, defamatory or immoral works using the Image(s) nor use the Image(s) for any other purpose which is prohibited by law;
Does that mean I cannot use it to create more Bill-Gates-as-Hitler images?
Damn right. Who are you to defame Hitler?
The ONLY open source software that I run (and I've been M$ free for about a year) that gives me any trouble is stuff like Mozilla. Not so with Corel Office / StarOffice. They run fairly well, but I've gotten clobbered by both of them. Commercial apps are fine, but on Linux, open source is setting a tough standard to have to beat in the marketplace. Commercial apps have to be not just good, but demonstrably better than the open source equivalent, and that's not happening enough to validate closed application development models as being superior. I do appreciate the choice, though, and will support some closed source commercial apps with $$$. But they have to be better than an open source equivalent that I can't help improve.
Really. About the only thing Corel PhotoPaint 3 has over GIMP is a more socially-acceptable name. :)
:) Personally, I think this is more of a mistake than a good move for Corel. Doing so more or less admits to the world that they can't compete in the same market. Countless hours of development down the tubes with no way of recouping costs = a bad thing.
Its hard to sell a product when your competitor is giving theirs away for free. Just ask Netscape.
Bowie J. Poag
Bowie J. Poag
I'm not complaining, mind you. This is definately a step in the right direction (commercial apps released for Linux). But IMHO the timing is a little too perfect... But maybe I'm just pessimistic.
------
Hi,
/ t /
i'm in the middle of making this available to
users in Australia and NewZealand
ftp://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/pub/corel/photopaint
http://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/pub/corel/photopain
-jason
Is it just me or they've put a password in the FTP server... ?
this is something i was always wondering might happen - a product which is released both on Windows (and/or mac), and Linux. in particular, in one case free, and in the other, not.
i can see windows users sitting there going "hey, i paid $lots for Corel Suite, why are Linux users getting it for free?". essentially, they are discriminating on the grounds of operating system. Imagine if it was like that the other way round, a software product you wanted to use that was free on a platform you didn't like, but you had to pay to use it on your platform of choice?
i am all for corel going in and giving the gimp some good competition - and even beating macromedia and adobe and others to the OS - this can only bring better products through competition. but the cross-platform payment issue does raise this interesting question. where does it go from here? does microsoft sue corel because they're discriminating against windows?
fross
Great job indeed. I hear they're giving stock away for free too.
Hooray for you! You get a cookie. I have no need for a firewall. I don't care. My Linux machine functions as a desktop machine. Windows on my machine functions as a Playstation(TM) that'll only run for a few hours at a time without crashing (even while left alone; I think Microsoft must have helped push for EnergyStar stuff just so their operating system seemed more stable than it is.) There are very few things that I do that can't be done on Linux. Oh, sure, if I do any graphics design stuff, I have to use Windows. Better yet, a Mac. :^) But, hey, that's because good software doesn't exist for this (yet) on a Linux machine. Why wish for it on a linux machine at all? Hey, I can put my Linux box under a *severe* load and it still *works*! I can set settings as root and only anyone with root access can change the settings. Recently, at the newspaper I work at, someone lamented that it'd sure be nice to be able to lock all the settings somehow, since people kept screwing up monitor gamma correction, TCP/IP settings (we co-op with our local cable company for cablemodem access; if the settings get screwed up, we screw up everyone's cablemodem access), printer settings, etc. Windows has the same problem, unless NT is anywhere close to this. Viruses? Bah! In short, we'd like linux to be functional for just about any job mainly because of stability and security issues.
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
Bite the hand.
How are they planning to make money off this software? It seems like they just give all their apps away for linux for free, are they just trying to hurt M$s marketshare? Are they planning on charging money again once Microsoft goes away?
And, I suppose this question is kind of offtopic, but how is the linux community going to compete against microsoft's '.net' initiative? anyone have a clue?
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
"One question for anyone from Corel, when can we expect Ventura for Linux?"
I'm not from Corel, but am a close watcher of it. All of the Corel business apps were scheduled to be released on Linux by the end of the year. I haven't heard anything about change in the schedule since the staff lay-offs, but not very many of the lay-offs were engineers, so they may still be on schedule. I know the Corel Draw Linux version made it into beta two months ahead of schedule, which bolsters the suspicion that Linux Ventura may still happen this year.
I don't mind paying for software but jeez that crap is so expensive! People are lucky to be able to afford a computer let alone $500 for a drawing program.
Photoshop is *not* marketed towards people, it's marketed towards companies. Working as a web designer, I would say to my boss "I need Photoshop 4. It will let me do X, Y, and Z, and that will improve P, Q, and R on the web site.
A company that is bringing in hundreds of thousands of dollars can afford to spend a thousand bucks on some software for their web designer to make an attractive, functional site. And that's a thousand times more true for a magazine whose image is tied directly to every design decision their graphic designers make. -Erik
What you don't pay for in cash, you pay for in other ways:
* you don't get a CD (or you have to burn your own).
* you don't get a printed manual.
* you have to download it, and it's big.
* you don't get technical support.
* you don't get all the perks and thrills that the commercial version packages with it.
Why this can work
Because Corel is giving it away to people who wouldn't ever have bought it anyway. They're not losing sales.
Their commercial offering is going to sell based on its added value: its manual, CD, tech support and a ton of goodies.
Professional users will continue to pay for it based on the added value being worth the price.
The trick is for Corel to make sure the added value is valued...
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Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
There is some good commercial software for Linux where the Open Source equivalents simply don't stack up. For instance, nobody's writing a programmers' editor with full BRIEF keymap compatibility, color syntax highlighting, and all the other "modern" features you'd expect. (KDevelop comes close but ruins it by forcing you to use the default M$ Visual Studio keymap with no possibility of change. I've used BRIEF-style editors (both BRIEF itself and now CodeWright) for 6 years at work and I ain't switching now ;-) Free software authors like to push skins - how about USEFUL customization options instead?
:-) So that immediately opens up a market for more traditional (read MS Office-like) programs like Corel's.
So, my solution was to pay (a lot of) money for CRISP. It's not ideal, but it does have all the neat features I enjoy from CodeWright at work and so it makes me more productive when I'm using Linux. That in itself is worth every penny.
There are other needs in the marketplace. KOffice is gonna be good, but I don't think the average user wants to put up with a FrameMaker style word processor. Heck, I've used FrameMaker and I'm pretty sure I don't
jeez, man, give them a break already. Nobody buys the Photo Paint package by itself. They buy the graphics suite.
YES they are a company that makes money.
YES they are going to charge for their products.
NO they will not open their source.
So What. Nobody hates Loki. I think it is all in their attitude, and you have to be suspect of Corel because they are not a new company, they are part of the 'good ol' boys' network of software builders for commercial outlets. It's what they do. ATLEAST they have embraced Linux (albeit in a weird-ass way). I personally don't understand them in any way, although I do use their products.
Corel is really just trying to jump onto the Linux buzzword bandwagon to increase their stock value and maybe make a bit of cash in the long run (by packaging cool Tux toys with the commercial version of their distro, maybe). Obviously, they wouldn't be releasing all this free stuff for Linux if they had not been totally screwed over by Microsoft's business practices that forced WordPerfect out of the market. Corel still doesn't get that they should release source or at least provide binaries for Power PC, Alpha, etc.
However, this is still a good thing for Linux. Maybe not for most Linux users who want source code, but for people who want to see Desktop Software they've heard of on Linux.
Word Perfect Office is a competant office suite, and supports filetypes from MS Word. Corel's graphics package , to my knowledge, provides more mainstream graphics tools than the GIMP.
This will hopefully make people realize that one can use Linux for a desktop OS once they get used to something that looks and feels different than Microsoft Windows. With Corel giving their stuff out for free (even without source), people can check out Linux as a Desktop without it costing them much cash.
Of course, what I'd really like to see now from Corel is support for BeOS and other Operating Systems. I'm sure they could do it, and it would help people see that there is not only one alternative to Microsoft Windows, but many.
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
Hell, even if Painter itself sucked ass (which it most certainly doesn't), it gets extra cool points because it comes in a paint can. Whee!
obTroll: I will take these hot grits from you with my hand, and pour them down my pants.
The UI is VERY customizable -- you can configure the toolbars, menus, dialogs, and keys to be whatever and wherever you like.
The GIMP is a great project, and I applaud everyone who has put effort into it. I hope PhotoPaint can serve as a wake-up call and inspire the GIMP people to do some serious UI work.
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Anyone who pays $500 for PhotoPaint is getting rooked big-time. The suggested price for the full CorelDraw suite is $695, and I don't think anyone sells it at full retail. The CorelDRAW suite is worth spending money on, but PhotoPaint is not. For far less money one can buy Paint Shop Pro which takes care of almost everything PhotoPaint can do, and if you're looking for full Photoshop compatibility for your service bureau, Photoshop is only $114 more through Adobe and cheaper on the street.
Prices for many of these programs seem steep for home use, but the main market for these programs is professional users, who can write off the cost of the program as a business expense (saving 28% or more in the US), and who will use the program to make money. $700 is a lot of money, but if the program saves you 7 to 14 hours over time, it's paid for itself.
Oh well.
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"The crowning intellectual accomplishment of the brain is the real world."
A gem from the license:
B. YOU MAY NOT
1. create scandalous, obscene, defamatory or
immoral works using the Image(s) nor use the
Image(s) for any other purpose which is prohibited
by law;
Does that mean I cannot use it to create more
Bill-Gates-as-Hitler images?
Corel announced that they would be offering PhotoPaint for free when their stock was still high, when they were the darling of Wall Street and Bay Street. It just took them a while to get it out.
Be smart and work to create. Don't ride on the backs of others.
Does anyone know how well it works under FreeBSD 3.x or 4.0?
The GIMP is nice, but I need some features that I know that work very nice under the last Windows release of Photo-Paint.
Other than a good photo editor, all I need is decent True Type (and anti-aliasing) fonts under X and a decent Java support before I start using FreeBSD on my main workstation at work!
Below are the direct links to download this software so you dont have to waste your time trying to surf linux.corel.com :)
CorelPHOTOPAINT9Lnx.tar.gz 182520 Kb Wed Jun 28 21:00:00 2000 Unix Tape Archive
CorelPHOTOPAINT9LnxDEB.tar.gz 91989 Kb Wed Jun 28 20:54:00 2000 Unix Tape Archive
CorelPHOTOPAINT9LnxRPM.tar.gz 92601 Kb Wed Jun 28 20:56:00 2000 Unix Tape Archive
I have a question that's been bugging me. Open source software and GPL is fabulous, but is there a market for commercial software on the Linux platform?
It seems to me as if the Linux culture is based around everything being for free. Maybe there will be some revenue model that will allow this to become mainstream in the future, but for the immediate success of Linux, I wonder the following: is it possible that larger software companies are unwilling to release their main products on Linux because they're worried they won't be able to make money?
Honest, I'm not trying to troll. It's just that this story is the latest to make me wonder about the financial viabillity of Linux as a targetted OS for commercial software.
As a grqaphic designer who uses Windows for nearly the sole purpose of Games and the Corel suite of graphics programs, this gives lets me stay in Linux more. I'm very happy about this.
Corel, I believe, is making the right move about porting apps to Linux. Although in many ways it doesn't make sense for the company (just look at the stock), let's face it: without this kind of corporate support, Linux will not grow. So, Corel practically sacrifices itself for the advancement of Linux. This is risky, brave, and noble.
Now, if you don't mind, I'm gonna try a download!
This is a bit off-topic, but I've been looking around on the web a bit and I haven't managed to find one. Is there such thing, and if not, what toolkit would you recommend? PerlMagick or what?
It doesn't have to be a GIMP or anything that complex, just have the feature set of, say, Windows Paint or equivalent (but with support for jpeg and such).
I bought Corel long long ago when it was at 13 and I got greedy and didn't sell when it made it in the mid-$40 range and look at it now. I bought more but my gut feeling is that Corel isn't going to make it. However, if they do make it, I think I'll be sitting pretty in a few years. They seem to be headed in the right direction and they seem to be working hard enough at it, but the rest of the world just doesn't seem ready for what they are doing. Photopaint was always one of my favorite tools. For doing simple photo editing I still prefer it over Photoshop. It had a certain amount of coolness that photoshop couldn't touch. I haven't used it in a while so I'm looking forward to seeing what they've done with it since the early days when I used to use it.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
So, where are the mandatory screenshots?
Adjust your mind - s/linux/windows/, and think again!
- Hubert
I think if they can get the MS-effect going just by name brand recognition that will be the only way they can pull out of the slump they are in. If only they could score a deal with one of the big vendors (Dell, HP, Compaq, whoever) to offer a pre-installed system identical to a Win system but cheaper, I think they might have a fighting chance. If I had mod-points I'd mod yours up. Someone modded me down once so I'll never have mod points now. :(
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Was that a bad joke or what?!
I guess most of you guys know this, but here is a short paste from www.linux.co.uk:
Linux is a flavour of UNIX, an operating system (underlying software that provides and interface between a computer's hardware and its applications) developed at Bell Laboratories as a private research project by a small group of people starting in 1969. Linux was originally developed in 1991 by Linus Torvalds, then a student at the University of Helsinki, Finland.
Sounds almost as if you've bought PS and refuse to admit you've made a mistake :-)
-- http://thegirlorthecar.com funny dating game for guys
Yet another Linux == Intel. No source means no PhotoPaint on LinuxPPC or any other non-Intel platform until they get it together. No thanks, I'll stick with the GIMP.
This is my cubicle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
The thing is, they are trying to keep their feet in both Windows and Linux, which may some day pay off strategically, but is right now a big costly pain in the ass. And what's it getting them? Their Windows app revenue is plummeting (they took too long getting the version 9 of everything out, and don't have the marketing cash, shelf space, or OEM clout of MS), while the Linux app revenue is barely a blip.
Right now they're getting all the pain of open source (low price) and none of the gain (code donations). They need to go on a job-cutting spree, encourage the code donations (GPL), and hope that their products can be nurtured by the community long enough for them to gain momentum and revenue. Of course, if they GPL everything, it won't necessarily be Corel that gets to cash in on the momentum...
This is why commercial software companies need to be wary about opening established products too fast -- they've already made the investment in their commercial products, and opening them up just undermines their ability to make a short-term return.
BTW, I feel for your stock story -- I got in at 4 last June, watched it go to 45, and then finally gave up and sold at, you guessed it, 4. Kinda like a bad dream -- no harm done but a lot of lost sleep along the way!
"You can't get something for nothing." - my grandfather, on the stock market and Reaganomics.
I am not affiliated, etc....
"The Internet is made of cats."
I grabbed it yesterday and have been using it for a couple hours now. It uses Wine and actually has a few .exe files in the install dir (defaults to /usr/lib/corel).
It's geared more towards image editing rather than creation (though you can do this too). This is somewhat in contrast to Gimp, which seems easier to use for new logos and suchlike. Though I'd expected it to be slow (like parts of StarOffice), it actually is pretty responsive on my PII350.
Corel Draw 9 suite for Linux including Photopaint will be on the retail shelves in a couple weeks but it was shown for the first time at Linux tag in Germany yesterday. I submited a story three days ago about Corel Photo Paint free download. I submitted a story two days ago about Corel Draw 9 for Linux being premiered in Germany at Linux tag. Both stories were rejected(sigh). I managed to slip a post in the PC Expo thread thursday with links to the free photo paint download and the Corel Draw 9 announcement but no one noticed. At least someone got a story on this posted but I think the Corel Draw 9 Linux is more important.
Today's vices may be tomorrow's virtues.
People put it down, because it comes as part of the Corel Draw suite, but it is a very good program with quite a professional following. It does everything you'd want from Photoshop, with a less cluttered and confusing interface. It handles some things better than Photoshop, like paletted images. It's also a better choice for doing actual painting work (as opposed to image retouching). Good job Corel!
Comparing Photo Paint to the Gimp is tricky, because the Gimp is such a beast in many ways, at least when you view it through something other than eyes of zealotry. Telling a graphic artist to use The Gimp is like telling a programmer to use lcc over all other compilers. I'm not flaming The Gimp, just pointing out that its main benefits have always been (a) it's free, and (b) it runs under Linux.
Addressing your assertion that Linux is not competitive with other OSs for the reasons you cite: Your position is popular, but I personally don't buy it. I'm sure that there are others who have seen through it as well.
I feel that the position your have adopted is a fairly transparent attempt to sucker Linux developers into producing apps that mimic other OS's, something that I don't care to see happen, and is bad for the entire Linux community, imo. As you say, this will be borne out, or not, over time. I think the Mozilla effort is a good example, though. A massive developement effort, that even after several years has yet to produce a marketable product. If M$ and others can keep linux developers spinning their wheels like that, linux will die on the vine...
Strangely enough, I've been hearing this for at leat 4 years now. Perhaps I will 'see', but as I said, I don't think lack of apps is the problem. And, as I said above, I don't think ease of use is the problem either. These are specious arguments, as you would know if you use Linux much. Certainly these same arguments have been used repeated to influence first-time computer buyers, newbies, etc. The fact of the success of that usage does not make them overwhelming, or even true.In short, people don't want 'free'. This idea is not just something I dreamed up on my own, and as I said above it is a thesis that definitely has been tested. In fact, I think pretty much any marketting type can tell you that in this consumerist society, people inherently distrust 'free'. That's true across the board, not just in the software industry. Your assertions and predictions do nothing to change that.
"The Internet is made of cats."
For example, the GIMP UI is not very customizable short of hacking the source, whereas it's very easy to rearrange PhotoPaint to your liking -- you can put everything in what is an intuitve place for you.
There are other things which are more subjective, but I think can be argued as something more than personal preference -- for example, the right-click menu issue, or the fact that there's two separate-but-similar file menus.
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I predict that this sort of thing is another perfect example of what Linux needs.
Corel's software isn't beautiful (their Office package is a hell of a lot better than M$, but could be improved), but where they really excel is that my mom has no problem installing and using their products. They're intuitive, they're pretty, there's a lot of hand-holding involved.
And, strangely, people like my parents--and all the business execs and fat cats their age--prefer to pay for their software. "You get what you pay for," they say. "That's the way I was raised, and that's what I think."
In conclusion, paying for software is only good if you somehow can't figure out how to use free software--but anything that brings Linux more mainstream is also good.
"Beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he deems himself your master."