>> Lets put it this way, it takes 10+ years and 000s of developers to build an Air Traffic Control System, do you think this would work well in the bazzare enviroment?
>That's "bizarre" environment, as in "the catheter and the bizarre behaviour". (-:
I think the intended meaning was 'bazaar', as in "a fair for the sale of articles especially for charitable purposes" or "an oriental market consisting of rows of shops or stalls selling miscellaneous goods"...
fwiw, I think the only thing we can say about ATC software is that it took 10+ years and ever-how-many developers to do it last time using (what are now) traditional methods.
That does not mean that such an effort must take that long or use that many developers.
I can easily imagine an ATC system created by "intelligent" software which would take a week or two to develop, and maybe 1 developer.
That's the way we were supposed to be doing things in the 21st century, right? What, are you worried about job security, or something?
I alternate between "fascist" and "socialist" for political ideologies I don't agree with. I know which one applies in which situation. I also use "fascist" to refer to republicans who want to control your every thought, and limit "socialist" to those who think that the best society is where everyone is an altruist, and think this society can be obtained.
FWIW, I think the official name for the Nazis of the WW2 era was "National Socialists". This gets a bit hazy (I was very young then), but I believe that the underlying politico/economic philosophy that enabled Fascism was in fact Socialism.
I cannot stand to even look at my Metallica CD's anymore....Does anyone want to buy them from me????
Hmmm. You do realize that the simple fact that the very sight of these CDs turns your stomach does not entitle you to sell them? If you sell them without remitting royalties to Metallica, you have committed a violation against the copyright holder, and I understand the holders of the Metallica copyrights are a bit touchy here lately...
I remember scrawling a big lightning bolt on my gym locker in the Seventh Grade
...that's probably trademark infringement; you might want to consult a lawyer before you post any more of this stuff. At least you're not a napster user (are you!?).
Since you were technically a juvenile in 7th grade, you might get off with a warning unless Metallica chooses to prosecute you as an adult, in which case you'll probably go down for "intent to redistribute illegally" and "racketeering" in addition to the usual "habitual violator" stuff... tough break.
RIAA is using Metallica, Dre, etc. to take the heat. I'm pretty sure that these acts are being largely misled by their agents (who may be acting in the intere$ts of others) and also to some extent coached.
This especially makes sense if, as another post asserted, Metallica owns their own copyrights.
The music industry has a deep and abiding hatred for artists who won't surrender the ritual pound of flesh to the industry jackals.
To convince (by deceit or corruption) the agent of a band which owns its own material to take up a cause that benefits no one but the industry jackals is the kind of strategy that has kept the music business in business, the cultural landscape barren, and musicians in blue-collar jobs, for decades.
The industry has it's test case, and the blame goes to someone despised in the industry for holding out on their copyrights. The fans are outraged. Everyone gets hurt except the industry. This kind of evil has a certain purity that borders on the hypnotic...
There was a test case (perhaps more than one) made against cassette tape technology. Does anyone remember the principals involved? Obviously the corporate players haven't changed, but I wonder who the band was.
And of course, there was a time when photocopy machines were proscribed in certain schools and businesses, since the fair-use statutes didn't exist yet...
"...it just reached a point where they could make more money off him if he was dead..."
I know Metallica, they are pitiful '80s loozers. They make a good test case because they have name recognition, but their sales are below the profitability threshhold.
Who is this "Dre" guy (it is a guy, right?)? Is he really a doctor? Has this got something to do with smoking and the koop.com bankruptcy? Jocelyn Elders? Does he work for the government?
Why are the record industry not suing the manufacturers of Microsoft Networking ? MS Networking is being used every day to "share" terabytes of "illegal" MP3 copies of the music owned by the major record companies.
It was going on before napster was a gleam in a teenagers eye, too... Seems to me BMI/ASCAP should take on M$ before they start going after the small fry. Maybe they're just getting warmed up.
Face it: the advertising industry (and the entertainment industry, by extension) will not be happy until they control every sensory path into your conciousness. They are the enemy. Know them.
As a felon who is not yet through with the probation and other terms of his sentence, (even though we all know that he only pled guilty to stop the circus) he legally could not leave the country without very specific permissions from all sorts of authorities.
Well, if the lore I have heard is true (e.g. Mitnick spent 4 years in a federal pen w/o trial - no habeus corpus), if I were him I would give about a rat's ass what was legal in the eyes of the feds. Obviously they intended, and still intend to destroy him - gratuitously and completely.
He should be looking to relocate to a country hostile to US Federal interests where his skills would be valued. Osama Bin Ladin's... uh, could it be called a company?... comes to mind.
I'm sure there are any number of terrorist organizations world wide, who, having been put in a position similar to Mitnick's wrt employment, would be willing to hire him, and screw the feds.
I mean, if they have said you are a terrorist (and evidently a fairly good/dangerous one), fukkin put it on your resume! Besides, if Mitnick can get Bin Ladin's ICBM working, we're rid of those miserable fucks in DC that much sooner, anyhow, right?
...about a month or more ago. I'm still waiting to hear something. Have gotten no response (unless you count the/. article; wish I'd thought of that).
Screw the dot-coms and the whole psuedo-information movement. Wiretap is an internet classic. It should have community support. The more of these types of sites that disapear, the poorer the internet becomes. If this keeps up, it'll just be interactive T.V. all advertising, all the time; no content.
Also, there is a possible liability issue here; a parent would have a real case if their student learned how to make a bomb off his StudyPro at school and ended up blowing himself up. It is censorship, yes, but the alternative is no program at all. So it's either: limited access to the web, or no access to the web. I think it's clear what most people would choose.
In my day we learned how to make bombs the old-fashioned way: we went to the library. When I was 15, I got more detailed info on how to be a terrorist in a couple afternoons at the local public library than I have found on the net in 10 years (I am still open to any good links you might have, though). No shit. Haven't you noticed how pathetic the terrorist handbooks on the net are compared to say "Steal This Book" (Hoffman)? They just don't write 'em like that anymore...
Fortunately, it's much easier to censor the library than it is to build effective censoring proxy servers... Good argument for denying students access to either networks or libraries, isn't it?
Bottom line is, if the student wants to do the work, they will do the work. Otherwise, they will find a way to learn how to make bomb, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.
Sounds to me like you have some good points (like you are thinking along the same lines I do, which is good:). I really appreciate the links.
I do, however, think your reasoning has a serious flaw. You are seeing the idealized situation, and believing that it will happen.
For instance, do really believe that an entrenched state bureaucracy is going to spring for the Transmeta devices running Linux?
Two clicks into the appropriate software link you provided I find Win/Mac only software packages for Algebra (damnit, I've been looking for an X version of one of those). Do you really think if the state dumps a chunk of cash on these vendors they will suddenly start writing Linux apps?
For pity's sake, man, Micor$oft probably already has a team working on getting that contract. Haven't you noticed their shills participating in this discussion already? They know damned well that if they can get the ME contract, they can use that to sell more of the same. flushing noise There goes educational software, down the same toilet that commercial and consumer software has gone down. The whole field will be stillborn.
You point about textbooks is especially idealized. Of course e-books should be cheaper than paper books, but they won't be. They'll be more expensive. Same as above, too. M$ somehow seems to believe they are qualified to produce content, as well as third rate code.
I'm sorry, I see your dream, and I share it, but it will not happen in the public schools as they are now structured, and it will not happen until Microsoft Corp is dead. There's too much at stake for them to let you get away with it.
That's the reason so much of the commentary is negative, imo. It will take private, virtual schools implementing the kind of infrastructure you're talking about to make it work. 30 years from now public education will begin to catch up, assuming that the whole concept hasn't been laid to rest under a pile of FUD.
If you want to see your dream made reallity, you should get into the private educational sector.
The ME plan *does* include a significant sum for teacher education on computers and how to integrate them for classroom use. The laptop program won't be starting up until 2002, so they'll have 2 years to hopefully get the teachers trained up to an appropriate level.
Typical politician-think. In 2 years the teachers will be caught up to where computing was at the turn of the century...
Of course, computing will have moved on, and their skills will be obsolete, but they will be ahead of where they are now.
Why not buy electronic devices for $500 to $1000 and give all the students their textbooks electronically?
Good question. I wish the answer weren't so obscene...
Because unless the schools wise up their buying practices, the electronic versions of the same books will cost even more than the paper version because they will be proprietary. This is already happening, and moving it into the schools will speed it up, to everyone's detriment.
Open systems, open standards, open source. You'll have to have it to make computing in the classroom affordable; but when you have it, it will be cheaper than books. It's just a long way off, still.
Laptops for each student is an idea worthy of a politician. The reasons are manifest, and many others in the forum have described them in detail... I am heartened by the number of people not falling for it, though.
To those of you whining for a solution: Here's a solution. Put your funding where your mouth is.
Virtual schools. Online educational environments where students can learn at their own pace, from whatever network terminal they happen to have available.
While the concept is quite simple, it is not a quick fix. The technology to implement this sort of thing exists, but there has been no real effort to integrate it and make it work in any realistic terms.
Nevertheless, we are a lot closer (in terms of effort) to being able to make a working virtual school than we are to being able to improve the quality of education by giving out computers like textbooks.
In my opinion, the public school model is badly broken, and will only get worse before it gets better. Throwing more of the primitive technology that passes for 'computers' these days into the mix will only make it worse.
Virtual schools can begin to address the issues confronting traditional schools cost-effectively, and in a manner that will benefit both students and educators, without throwing existing schools into greater chaos.
And in any case, know Linux makes you far more employable than whom? Than an illiterate tramp who can't stop pissing himself? yes, almost certainly so. Than an MSCE? Do me a favour.
I think you're being a bit unfair to the MSCE's. Most of them I know wear Depends(tm), so pissing themselves constantly is only an odor problem...
to convince them that there isn't a market, and make it unprofitable for them.
A good idea, but it still treats only the symptoms, not the disease itself.
To fight the disease, go after the state of North Carolina and its school board.
This needs to be stopped before it spreads, and if NC is not discreditted, they will be held up as a "success story" by Pinkerton (or others) when similar programs are proposed in other states....
The entire program must fail, not just the eco/capitalistic side of it.
I agree with everything you say here, and kudos to Mr. Katz, it is a strange and wonderful thing you are doing!) except...
Anyone have any ideas how we can get more exposure?
Do you really think/. can stand more exposure? You've already got M$ employess trying to use/. for spin control. Now you'll probably have Pinkertons in here. And it's only a matter of time before prayer meetings in NC and across the bible belt come online to make sure they have refuted you within your own forum ("Yer the DEBIL, Dave Potter! John Katz is SATAN!!"), and try to save all our souls... all just to ensure job security for the idiots that came up with the WAVE plan.
That said, I think John Katz should (and could probably) get his article published in the national print media...
to convince them that there isn't a market, and make it unprofitable for them.
A good idea, but it still treats only the symptoms, not the disease itself.
To fight the disease, go after the state of North Carolina and its school board.
This needs to be stopped before it spreads, and if NC is not discreditted, they will be held up as a "success story" by Pinkerton when they bid on the same program in other states....
...telco, and a cable t.v. company, and a religious cult, and an entertainment company, and a book publisher, and...
Im just suprised they just started now...i mean, they could have shortly after the suit was filed instead of after they were found guilty!
What makes you think they just started it? M$ has been steadily buying-up the US Congress for years now. The guilty verdict was necesary in order to prevent double jeopardy. The politicos will get them off the hook, then scream bloody murder about if the DOJ thinks about going after them again. You're believing the hype; it's been a put-up job from the start.
If the DOJ wants to stop M$, they're going to have to use tactics similar to what they unleased on the Branch Davideans at Waco. The legal system and the executive branch can, and have, been bought; lock, stock, and barrel.
How do you think those poor bastards on the missle cruisers wound up being towed back to port when NT crashed on them. The US Navy stated publicly that they knew better than to try to use NT for that application (warship systems automation), but that "political pressure was brought to bear" to force the choice.
Next war, we stand to lose more troups to Bill Gates' software screwups than to any foreign military force...
Question: When people start to die because M$ bought off the government (and it will happen, it's only a matter of time now), will it be considered friendly fire, or will we realize that M$ is the enemy within, and call it what it is: treason?
The Bush family supported Hitler before and during WW II. Now they support Bill Gates. At least they're consistent.
Bill Gates is not a capitalist, he's a fascist; he's not selling a product, he's running a protection racket, and he's making moves on the political establishment, among other things. All you linux users could wind up wearing yellow stars, stuffed in in freight trains on your way to get 'Training Seminars' in eastern WA once GW and the Religious Right take power; if you're lucky, they'll just fine you for running running dual boot...
Anyone know what software the computers that count s the votes for the general elections runs? Five to one it was recently "upgraded" to WinNT. Bet?
"This license agreement ("the end-user license agreement with Amerika") replaces any and all provisions of the former Kontract with Amerika, its clauses or parts...."
schools can't distribute aspirin to students (let alone psycho-therapy)
The way they are getting away with it is that they don't call it psycho-therapy.
Ritalin has reached epidemic proportions in US schools. The FDA has it on the same drug schedule as methamphetamine and cocaine, and the schools are passing it out like candy, especially to children of families who receive welfare, food-stamps, SSI, etc.
Ritalin is a popular street drug, too. The kids with any sense can sell it, easily, to the same people who buy meth, coke, crack, etc. (Sorry, I don't know the street price anymore).
Over 50% of my daughter's 4th grade class was being drugged on "advice" the school -- specifically, the instructor. That's right, the teacher. Not a school nurse, not a doctor, not a counsler or a therapist. A teacher, with the support of the administration.
The parents of any child who acted like a normal 4th grade child were told that their child was impulsive, disruptive, and "has trouble staying on task". Vague threats and innuendo are used to encourage the parents to cooperate. For recipients of public assistance, the threats are not so vague: If your child doesn't take these drugs, your benefits will be cut.
Naturally, an undrugged child stands out it classroom where the "norm" for behavior is gauged against a bunch of 10-year-old zombies.... And naturally, any child who doesn't fit in is singled out by other students and teachers.
I think the whole W.A.V.E. program is symptomatic of the disease that is devouring our educational system from the inside.
If you love your children, if you want to give them a chance, get them out of the schools. They (and we) are going to have enough problems as the hardware is purchased to expand these types of programs to cover not just schools, but entire communities. The idea that it will be used to combat violence is just a marketting ploy; imagine the kind of power the owners of the databases will wield as the number of profiles they hold approaches %75 of the population of a state?
The reason they are pushing it in the schools is that children who grow up with this type of monitoring will be less likely to squawk when it continues into their adult lives.
Question: Is 1984 (the book by Geo. Orwell) still required reading in the schools? Specifically, will students in NC be reading it?
The kids (and many of the adults) around here have never heard of it.
And has anyone accurately established just how many of the shooters in the recent spate of school violence were on Ritalin, Prozac, or some other psychotropic drug? Last time I looked, I couldn't find one who wasn't...
That's what will be done for the victims of your programs, Pinkerton. They'll be drugged. And the long term effect of that will be that what incidents do occur will be far more horrific.
There are only two possible outcomes to this sort of approach to the problems of society: revolution by the populace, or enslavement of the populace.
Now that we are paying to turn in potentially violent people, it would be easy to get them to turn in suspected Christians, especially those who school their kids at home.
...or suspected non-xians, since it is the christian-fundamentalist-right-wing-conservative brand of neo-facsists who are propagating this particular crime against humanity.
These (dzimmerm's 7 points) are all things I would agree with. I would add...
The main positive (from the school's POV) point about the fact that GPL'd software is 'free' is that, by using it they can sidestep the whole problem of allowing corps like MS and Apple to use the school as a marketting tool.
The corps know that if they can get their product into the schools they are garunteed a market in years to come.
You should be aware that Apple (and later Microsoft) targetted the education market for precisely that reason. 'Get'em while they're young', so to speak.
Oft times the software selection criteria schools use is written with the 'help' of software sales reps. You should ask for copies of the software selection criteria for your school, and examine it with a critical eye.
The instructor is (usually) just parrotting back what the mandated 'training' courses (madated meaning the teachers are usually *required* to take them -- often at their own not inconsiderable expense) told them to they must teach. Note that these 'courses' are supported by Microsoft -- e.g. taught by a 'Microsoft Certified Professional', using 'donated' Microsoft software. These sessions are no more 'training' than television infomercials, but that's what they're doing...
Most CS courses are NOT intended to produce savvy computer users or programmers; they are intended to keep the school from looking bad. They need to be able to say 'Yes, we teach computer skills.' and they will do the absolute minimum they can get away with to be able to say that. Convince them that teaching Linux or BSD is easier than teaching Windoze, and you're done; they'll do it.
All in all, the schools should be ashamed of themselves for selling out the future to billionaire facists whose only interest in "education" is to keep their victims dumbed down enough to keep purchasing product. It is this kind of brainless, sheep-like behavior that will keep computing in the dark ages for the next 30 years...
Your real enemy (being a student forced to use inferior software) is (usually) the local (and maybe the state) board of education -- NOT the instructor. Instructors are frequently open to learning a bit themselves, if you handle it correctly. In general, school boards prefer to authorities on any given subject, and are unwilling admit they don't know everything. If this is your situation, you will need to enlist the help of other students, teachers, faculty, and perhaps the local news media, in order to accomplish anything.
Familiarize yourself with the rules that govern acquistions made by the school district. If you dig around in the charter and by-laws of the school board, you may find clauses that explicitly prohibition the use of the school system to pander commercial products to the students. For instance, you may find that they are prohibited from requiring you to buy some specific product in order to pass a course. Also, they should not be allowed to market brand-specific products to their captive audience (the students). (This last came up when cable television companies offered to install cable t.v. in public school classroom -- complete with ads for Coca-Cola(tm) and McDonalds(tm))
(tread lightly around this, it is a real sore point most times) You probably know more about computing and software than the instructor. I have seen this repeatedly in my children's classes. Don't embarass the instructor. If you do, you will never be forgiven, and your cause will be lost. Talk to them one-on-one.
If M$ or Apple has a stranglehold on computer education in your area, your best chance of success (imo) is through the courts, so don't do anything stupid that could be used against you (e.g. don't riot, and don't take over the computer lab in the name of The People).
With attack on this scale maybe it's time to get paranoid; I mean after all, who stands to profit by having DoS attacks blamed on Unix during the release of Windoze 2000? It may sound silly, but M$ has made billions on sillier ideas...
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>That's "bizarre" environment, as in "the catheter and the bizarre behaviour". (-:
I think the intended meaning was 'bazaar', as in "a fair for the sale of articles especially for charitable purposes" or "an oriental market consisting of rows of shops or stalls selling miscellaneous goods" ...
fwiw, I think the only thing we can say about ATC software is that it took 10+ years and ever-how-many developers to do it last time using (what are now) traditional methods.
That does not mean that such an effort must take that long or use that many developers.
I can easily imagine an ATC system created by "intelligent" software which would take a week or two to develop, and maybe 1 developer.
That's the way we were supposed to be doing things in the 21st century, right? What, are you worried about job security, or something?
Since you were technically a juvenile in 7th grade, you might get off with a warning unless Metallica chooses to prosecute you as an adult, in which case you'll probably go down for "intent to redistribute illegally" and "racketeering" in addition to the usual "habitual violator" stuff... tough break.
This especially makes sense if, as another post asserted, Metallica owns their own copyrights.
The music industry has a deep and abiding hatred for artists who won't surrender the ritual pound of flesh to the industry jackals.
To convince (by deceit or corruption) the agent of a band which owns its own material to take up a cause that benefits no one but the industry jackals is the kind of strategy that has kept the music business in business, the cultural landscape barren, and musicians in blue-collar jobs, for decades.
The industry has it's test case, and the blame goes to someone despised in the industry for holding out on their copyrights. The fans are outraged. Everyone gets hurt except the industry. This kind of evil has a certain purity that borders on the hypnotic...
There was a test case (perhaps more than one) made against cassette tape technology. Does anyone remember the principals involved? Obviously the corporate players haven't changed, but I wonder who the band was.
And of course, there was a time when photocopy machines were proscribed in certain schools and businesses, since the fair-use statutes didn't exist yet...
"...it just reached a point where they could make more money off him if he was dead..."
Who is this "Dre" guy (it is a guy, right?)? Is he really a doctor? Has this got something to do with smoking and the koop.com bankruptcy? Jocelyn Elders? Does he work for the government?
Why are the record industry not suing the manufacturers of Microsoft Networking ? MS Networking is being used every day to "share" terabytes of "illegal" MP3 copies of the music owned by the major record companies.
It was going on before napster was a gleam in a teenagers eye, too... Seems to me BMI/ASCAP should take on M$ before they start going after the small fry. Maybe they're just getting warmed up.
Face it: the advertising industry (and the entertainment industry, by extension) will not be happy until they control every sensory path into your conciousness. They are the enemy. Know them.
Well, if the lore I have heard is true (e.g. Mitnick spent 4 years in a federal pen w/o trial - no habeus corpus), if I were him I would give about a rat's ass what was legal in the eyes of the feds. Obviously they intended, and still intend to destroy him - gratuitously and completely.
He should be looking to relocate to a country hostile to US Federal interests where his skills would be valued. Osama Bin Ladin's ... uh, could it be called a company? ... comes to mind.
I'm sure there are any number of terrorist organizations world wide, who, having been put in a position similar to Mitnick's wrt employment, would be willing to hire him, and screw the feds.
I mean, if they have said you are a terrorist (and evidently a fairly good/dangerous one), fukkin put it on your resume! Besides, if Mitnick can get Bin Ladin's ICBM working, we're rid of those miserable fucks in DC that much sooner, anyhow, right?
Screw the dot-coms and the whole psuedo-information movement. Wiretap is an internet classic. It should have community support. The more of these types of sites that disapear, the poorer the internet becomes. If this keeps up, it'll just be interactive T.V. all advertising, all the time; no content.
In my day we learned how to make bombs the old-fashioned way: we went to the library. When I was 15, I got more detailed info on how to be a terrorist in a couple afternoons at the local public library than I have found on the net in 10 years (I am still open to any good links you might have, though). No shit. Haven't you noticed how pathetic the terrorist handbooks on the net are compared to say "Steal This Book" (Hoffman)? They just don't write 'em like that anymore...
Fortunately, it's much easier to censor the library than it is to build effective censoring proxy servers... Good argument for denying students access to either networks or libraries, isn't it?
Bottom line is, if the student wants to do the work, they will do the work. Otherwise, they will find a way to learn how to make bomb, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.
Sounds to me like you have some good points (like you are thinking along the same lines I do, which is good:). I really appreciate the links.
I do, however, think your reasoning has a serious flaw. You are seeing the idealized situation, and believing that it will happen.
For instance, do really believe that an entrenched state bureaucracy is going to spring for the Transmeta devices running Linux?
Two clicks into the appropriate software link you provided I find Win/Mac only software packages for Algebra (damnit, I've been looking for an X version of one of those). Do you really think if the state dumps a chunk of cash on these vendors they will suddenly start writing Linux apps?
For pity's sake, man, Micor$oft probably already has a team working on getting that contract. Haven't you noticed their shills participating in this discussion already? They know damned well that if they can get the ME contract, they can use that to sell more of the same. flushing noise There goes educational software, down the same toilet that commercial and consumer software has gone down. The whole field will be stillborn.
You point about textbooks is especially idealized. Of course e-books should be cheaper than paper books, but they won't be. They'll be more expensive. Same as above, too. M$ somehow seems to believe they are qualified to produce content, as well as third rate code.
I'm sorry, I see your dream, and I share it, but it will not happen in the public schools as they are now structured, and it will not happen until Microsoft Corp is dead. There's too much at stake for them to let you get away with it.
That's the reason so much of the commentary is negative, imo. It will take private, virtual schools implementing the kind of infrastructure you're talking about to make it work. 30 years from now public education will begin to catch up, assuming that the whole concept hasn't been laid to rest under a pile of FUD.
If you want to see your dream made reallity, you should get into the private educational sector.
All, of course, is just my opinion.
*I am not the unabomber.*
Typical politician-think. In 2 years the teachers will be caught up to where computing was at the turn of the century...
Of course, computing will have moved on, and their skills will be obsolete, but they will be ahead of where they are now.
Good question. I wish the answer weren't so obscene...
Because unless the schools wise up their buying practices, the electronic versions of the same books will cost even more than the paper version because they will be proprietary. This is already happening, and moving it into the schools will speed it up, to everyone's detriment.
Open systems, open standards, open source. You'll have to have it to make computing in the classroom affordable; but when you have it, it will be cheaper than books. It's just a long way off, still.
To those of you whining for a solution: Here's a solution. Put your funding where your mouth is.
Virtual schools. Online educational environments where students can learn at their own pace, from whatever network terminal they happen to have available.
While the concept is quite simple, it is not a quick fix. The technology to implement this sort of thing exists, but there has been no real effort to integrate it and make it work in any realistic terms.
Nevertheless, we are a lot closer (in terms of effort) to being able to make a working virtual school than we are to being able to improve the quality of education by giving out computers like textbooks.
In my opinion, the public school model is badly broken, and will only get worse before it gets better. Throwing more of the primitive technology that passes for 'computers' these days into the mix will only make it worse.
Virtual schools can begin to address the issues confronting traditional schools cost-effectively, and in a manner that will benefit both students and educators, without throwing existing schools into greater chaos.
I think you're being a bit unfair to the MSCE's. Most of them I know wear Depends(tm), so pissing themselves constantly is only an odor problem...
I still won't hire them, though, fwiw.
A good idea, but it still treats only the symptoms, not the disease itself.
To fight the disease, go after the state of North Carolina and its school board.
This needs to be stopped before it spreads, and if NC is not discreditted, they will be held up as a "success story" by Pinkerton (or others) when similar programs are proposed in other states....
The entire program must fail, not just the eco/capitalistic side of it.
Anyone have any ideas how we can get more exposure?
Do you really think /. can stand more exposure? You've already got M$ employess trying to use /. for spin control. Now you'll probably have Pinkertons in here. And it's only a matter of time before prayer meetings in NC and across the bible belt come online to make sure they have refuted you within your own forum ("Yer the DEBIL, Dave Potter! John Katz is SATAN!!"), and try to save all our souls ... all just to ensure job security for the idiots that came up with the WAVE plan.
That said, I think John Katz should (and could probably) get his article published in the national print media ...
A good idea, but it still treats only the symptoms, not the disease itself.
To fight the disease, go after the state of North Carolina and its school board.
This needs to be stopped before it spreads, and if NC is not discreditted, they will be held up as a "success story" by Pinkerton when they bid on the same program in other states....
Im just suprised they just started now...i mean, they could have shortly after the suit was filed instead of after they were found guilty!
What makes you think they just started it? M$ has been steadily buying-up the US Congress for years now. The guilty verdict was necesary in order to prevent double jeopardy. The politicos will get them off the hook, then scream bloody murder about if the DOJ thinks about going after them again. You're believing the hype; it's been a put-up job from the start.
If the DOJ wants to stop M$, they're going to have to use tactics similar to what they unleased on the Branch Davideans at Waco. The legal system and the executive branch can, and have, been bought; lock, stock, and barrel.
How do you think those poor bastards on the missle cruisers wound up being towed back to port when NT crashed on them. The US Navy stated publicly that they knew better than to try to use NT for that application (warship systems automation), but that "political pressure was brought to bear" to force the choice.
Next war, we stand to lose more troups to Bill Gates' software screwups than to any foreign military force...
Question: When people start to die because M$ bought off the government (and it will happen, it's only a matter of time now), will it be considered friendly fire, or will we realize that M$ is the enemy within, and call it what it is: treason?
The Bush family supported Hitler before and during WW II. Now they support Bill Gates. At least they're consistent.
Bill Gates is not a capitalist, he's a fascist; he's not selling a product, he's running a protection racket, and he's making moves on the political establishment, among other things. All you linux users could wind up wearing yellow stars, stuffed in in freight trains on your way to get 'Training Seminars' in eastern WA once GW and the Religious Right take power; if you're lucky, they'll just fine you for running running dual boot...
Anyone know what software the computers that count s the votes for the general elections runs? Five to one it was recently "upgraded" to WinNT. Bet?
"This license agreement ("the end-user license agreement with Amerika") replaces any and all provisions of the former Kontract with Amerika, its clauses or parts...."
The way they are getting away with it is that they don't call it psycho-therapy.
Ritalin has reached epidemic proportions in US schools. The FDA has it on the same drug schedule as methamphetamine and cocaine, and the schools are passing it out like candy, especially to children of families who receive welfare, food-stamps, SSI, etc.
Ritalin is a popular street drug, too. The kids with any sense can sell it, easily, to the same people who buy meth, coke, crack, etc. (Sorry, I don't know the street price anymore).
Over 50% of my daughter's 4th grade class was being drugged on "advice" the school -- specifically, the instructor. That's right, the teacher. Not a school nurse, not a doctor, not a counsler or a therapist. A teacher, with the support of the administration.
The parents of any child who acted like a normal 4th grade child were told that their child was impulsive, disruptive, and "has trouble staying on task". Vague threats and innuendo are used to encourage the parents to cooperate. For recipients of public assistance, the threats are not so vague: If your child doesn't take these drugs, your benefits will be cut.
Naturally, an undrugged child stands out it classroom where the "norm" for behavior is gauged against a bunch of 10-year-old zombies.... And naturally, any child who doesn't fit in is singled out by other students and teachers.
I think the whole W.A.V.E. program is symptomatic of the disease that is devouring our educational system from the inside.
If you love your children, if you want to give them a chance, get them out of the schools. They (and we) are going to have enough problems as the hardware is purchased to expand these types of programs to cover not just schools, but entire communities. The idea that it will be used to combat violence is just a marketting ploy; imagine the kind of power the owners of the databases will wield as the number of profiles they hold approaches %75 of the population of a state?
The reason they are pushing it in the schools is that children who grow up with this type of monitoring will be less likely to squawk when it continues into their adult lives.
Question: Is 1984 (the book by Geo. Orwell) still required reading in the schools? Specifically, will students in NC be reading it?
The kids (and many of the adults) around here have never heard of it.
And has anyone accurately established just how many of the shooters in the recent spate of school violence were on Ritalin, Prozac, or some other psychotropic drug? Last time I looked, I couldn't find one who wasn't...
That's what will be done for the victims of your programs, Pinkerton. They'll be drugged. And the long term effect of that will be that what incidents do occur will be far more horrific.
There are only two possible outcomes to this sort of approach to the problems of society: revolution by the populace, or enslavement of the populace.
AMERIKA
At least there was no mention of the content...
The main positive (from the school's POV) point about the fact that GPL'd software is 'free' is that, by using it they can sidestep the whole problem of allowing corps like MS and Apple to use the school as a marketting tool.
The corps know that if they can get their product into the schools they are garunteed a market in years to come.
You should be aware that Apple (and later Microsoft) targetted the education market for precisely that reason. 'Get'em while they're young', so to speak.
Oft times the software selection criteria schools use is written with the 'help' of software sales reps. You should ask for copies of the software selection criteria for your school, and examine it with a critical eye.
The instructor is (usually) just parrotting back what the mandated 'training' courses (madated meaning the teachers are usually *required* to take them -- often at their own not inconsiderable expense) told them to they must teach. Note that these 'courses' are supported by Microsoft -- e.g. taught by a 'Microsoft Certified Professional', using 'donated' Microsoft software. These sessions are no more 'training' than television infomercials, but that's what they're doing...
Most CS courses are NOT intended to produce savvy computer users or programmers; they are intended to keep the school from looking bad. They need to be able to say 'Yes, we teach computer skills.' and they will do the absolute minimum they can get away with to be able to say that. Convince them that teaching Linux or BSD is easier than teaching Windoze, and you're done; they'll do it.
All in all, the schools should be ashamed of themselves for selling out the future to billionaire facists whose only interest in "education" is to keep their victims dumbed down enough to keep purchasing product. It is this kind of brainless, sheep-like behavior that will keep computing in the dark ages for the next 30 years...
Your real enemy (being a student forced to use inferior software) is (usually) the local (and maybe the state) board of education -- NOT the instructor. Instructors are frequently open to learning a bit themselves, if you handle it correctly. In general, school boards prefer to authorities on any given subject, and are unwilling admit they don't know everything. If this is your situation, you will need to enlist the help of other students, teachers, faculty, and perhaps the local news media, in order to accomplish anything.
Familiarize yourself with the rules that govern acquistions made by the school district. If you dig around in the charter and by-laws of the school board, you may find clauses that explicitly prohibition the use of the school system to pander commercial products to the students. For instance, you may find that they are prohibited from requiring you to buy some specific product in order to pass a course. Also, they should not be allowed to market brand-specific products to their captive audience (the students). (This last came up when cable television companies offered to install cable t.v. in public school classroom -- complete with ads for Coca-Cola(tm) and McDonalds(tm))
(tread lightly around this, it is a real sore point most times) You probably know more about computing and software than the instructor. I have seen this repeatedly in my children's classes. Don't embarass the instructor. If you do, you will never be forgiven, and your cause will be lost. Talk to them one-on-one.
If M$ or Apple has a stranglehold on computer education in your area, your best chance of success (imo) is through the courts, so don't do anything stupid that could be used against you (e.g. don't riot, and don't take over the computer lab in the name of The People).
http://www.europarl.eu.int/dg4/stoa/en/publi/pop-u p.htm
The actual document links come up in a JS pop-window (why? I dunno... and why PDF? Obviously, this *is* a conspiracy :)
Here they are: http://www.europarl.eu.int/dg4/stoa/en/publi/pdf/9 8-14-01-1en.pdf http://www.europarl.eu.int/dg4/stoa/en/publi/pdf/9 8-14-01-2en.pdf http://www.europarl.eu.int/dg4/stoa/en/publi/pdf/9 8-14-01-3en.pdf http://www.europarl.eu.int/dg4/stoa/en/publi/pdf/9 8-14-01-4en.pdf http://www.europarl.eu.int/dg4/stoa/en/publi/pdf/9 81401-5en.pdf
The links seem to connect, but am still waiting for a download... ~200b/s with lots of stalling...
This is from the US.
With attack on this scale maybe it's time to get paranoid; I mean after all, who stands to profit by having DoS attacks blamed on Unix during the release of Windoze 2000? It may sound silly, but M$ has made billions on sillier ideas...