I have a hard time putting myself in the officers shoes, admittedly, because I've never been a police officer. Nor do I know offhand if the officer had enough information to know what would happen if they drew the gun low. The officer says they gave a warning, the witnesses don't. Even if the officer didn't, was it a bad officer or bad training? Who knows. A lot of green officers may have overreacted; I don't know if the police you know are thinking back to when they were new or if tensions were even as high when they were new. The main gist is that the American public just needs to calm the hell down and get over it. Stop antagonizing and start fixing. I would hope that many black parents would encourage their kids to become police officers because if they start to get turned away for no reason THEN we can talk about a corrupt force.
So you're saying the officer should have used superpowers to detect that the gun only had plastic pellets? The case you want to make was that the 911 calls were not reliable but in this case they were reliable, and the public did not see the orange end on the Airsoft gun. The officer was acting on what they saw, which was something that looked exactly like a real gun that could have been drawn and fired in less than the time they had to reach Tamir. I'm not saying all cops are good. Even in the place I live I would be deluded if I thought they were all good. That said, I feel the chance is very low that the police involved in the Tamir Rice incident were bad. By getting angry at the police, by standing in the road just to spite them and prove-- I don't know what, just raises tensions. Raising tensions are going to make the problems worse. The public actually has a lot more latitude to help this situation than the police do. The police have to keep enforcing the law in the best way they can, their hands are tied. The public can change the way they act in any way they see fit and there are a lot of things that could have been done to prevent this scenario which I have already mentioned. Heck even if that orange end had been on the gun the 911 calls wouldn't have happened. Would it be so bad for the public to not let their kids play with realistic looking guns in public? Let's see this as an unfortunate circumstance, and instead of getting angry at the police, try to learn and grow from it. This is what will solve America's problem. Unfortunately, the US population seems to be very angry and mistrusting of authority and the government. There are probably many, many reasons for that and they go way beyond the police and those need to be solved. If they are not, then there will be continued escalations and we are on a crash course for a civil war. No one should want that.
You keep wanting to make this a black and white scenario but it wasn't. The officer had a split second decision to make in which to them it seemed the lives of them and others in the park were in danger. They felt they needed to act based on the information they had and they were wrong. It's a tragic situation that occurred indeed but I'm not ready to crucify them for it.
If he was an adult, as he looked like, and he had pointed the gun it would have been too late. So you're pretty much sentencing the officer to death there, maybe not an experienced officer but almost certainly a new officer.
Again, there was non-compliance and lack of respect. He was told to put his hands up and he reached for the gun. Also, let's not ignore a serious failing of judgment in the case of the parents. I sure didn't let my kids play in a park without supervision at 12. Never mind the fact that he had made a toy gun look like a real gun and was pointing it at people. I can't even remember the last time I've seen kids play with guns at all; all parents I know disallow that kind of violent play. I chalk it up to glorification of guns in American society and lack of respect for the comfort of other people.
Also doesn't apply, there were reliable prior reports that he was pointing the gun at people in a way that frightened them enough to call the police. It wasn't just a case of 'it looked like there was a gun in his pants'.
No it is also a representation of capability to respond with deadly force. I get it, it's the kind of authority that many Americans resent, but it is what it is.
When has an officer ever shot someone because it looked like they had a gun in their pants? In the Minnesota incident, the driver announced he had a gun and was then asked to keep his hands visible and he didn't. In a tense situation, this is enough to get you shot. It's too bad that these confrontations have to be that tense, but that's just how society is.
I'm not sure what incident you are talking about where proper procedure wasn't followed. In the Minnisota incident the officer was trying to find out the whereabouts of the gun first which is proper procedure. I recently saw a good video with some black country music star (can't remember who) going over how to assist the officer in following a reasonable protocol. I couldn't believe that it wasn't common sense for most people, but I guess if it's not a refresher is good. The thing is, it is people who need to reduce the tension and break the cycle. Keep your hands visible, ask the police officer what he/she wants you to do next, understand between the two of you what is happening, stay on the same page. Let's not forget, if you consider the thousands of traffic stops that happen in the US every day it is the officers who are in the most dangerous situation. They are the ones who have the authority, let them control everything about the situation.
To me it's all about my quality of living. If I have to work more hours, my cost goes up, housing expensive my cost goes up. If you're not going to end up with a better life in the end what's the point.
In a normal traffic stop, the cop is not there for long enough to earn respect. That's precisely why they have a badge and a gun. If you really feel that there is such a high percentage of corrupt police officers that you cannot assume they are worthy of your respect, then you need to move to a better place because you won't have a civil society for very long.
That doesn't mean obediently do everything they say and be a subservient gimp like you who just keeps their mouth shut no matter what happens.
This kind of attitude is exactly how people get themselves into trouble. If you are jealous of the officer's power then become an officer yourself. No, actually don't because people like you that resent police officers and don't feel you have to do what you say are very likely to abuse that power if you do get it.
Why do you think the police carry guns? When an officer asks you to do something, you comply period. It wouldn't have been that hard for Brown to get out of the street. But no, he called the officer's bluff and you just don't do that. I'm not saying he deserved a death sentence but I'm really not sure what else he thought would happen.
The root of all these problems is the fact that hardly anyone in the US trusts the government, or believes in how the government operates. I see it here on slashdot all the time. Inevitably all discussions of what is wrong in the US comes down to it.
Everyone else is 100% responsible to make sure officers feel completely safe and respected at all times.
If the police lose this, then they won't be much good to protect anyone. We may as well disband all police forces immediately and being in martial law.
If this is indeed what happened, then the shooting is a tragedy but I don't blame the officer. People need to respect what the police say in a situation like that, even without a gun in the vehicle.
So I would only be able to move during open enrollment then, or be prepared to drive back to Canada if I needed treatment until open enrollment period?
When you have multiple kids with school and a busy extra-curricular schedule, it really helps to have the parents around to help out. Especially if working more than 40 hours a week. I guess you could lean on friends that you meet, etc.. but then that's leaning on other people; the grandparents do it because they enjoy being with the grandkids.
I've heard that most insurance plans have lifetime caps, or restrictions on what doctor you can see, etc etc. Also, prior conditions are ok even if they happened in another country? In my experience here, it is a fight to get covered by an insurance company. Seriously, this is very intriguing to me.
Because people who have other priorities in life such as proximity to family shouldn't automatically be excluded from having a career. Sadly, the US seems to be reminiscent of the old days where pa would leave his family to go work in a mine to put food on the table. This, in days where telecommuting is easier then it ever has been.
Slashdot Mirror
You make all of those things sound so easy to use in every situation.
I have a hard time putting myself in the officers shoes, admittedly, because I've never been a police officer. Nor do I know offhand if the officer had enough information to know what would happen if they drew the gun low. The officer says they gave a warning, the witnesses don't. Even if the officer didn't, was it a bad officer or bad training? Who knows. A lot of green officers may have overreacted; I don't know if the police you know are thinking back to when they were new or if tensions were even as high when they were new. The main gist is that the American public just needs to calm the hell down and get over it. Stop antagonizing and start fixing. I would hope that many black parents would encourage their kids to become police officers because if they start to get turned away for no reason THEN we can talk about a corrupt force.
So you're saying the officer should have used superpowers to detect that the gun only had plastic pellets? The case you want to make was that the 911 calls were not reliable but in this case they were reliable, and the public did not see the orange end on the Airsoft gun. The officer was acting on what they saw, which was something that looked exactly like a real gun that could have been drawn and fired in less than the time they had to reach Tamir. I'm not saying all cops are good. Even in the place I live I would be deluded if I thought they were all good. That said, I feel the chance is very low that the police involved in the Tamir Rice incident were bad. By getting angry at the police, by standing in the road just to spite them and prove-- I don't know what, just raises tensions. Raising tensions are going to make the problems worse. The public actually has a lot more latitude to help this situation than the police do. The police have to keep enforcing the law in the best way they can, their hands are tied. The public can change the way they act in any way they see fit and there are a lot of things that could have been done to prevent this scenario which I have already mentioned. Heck even if that orange end had been on the gun the 911 calls wouldn't have happened. Would it be so bad for the public to not let their kids play with realistic looking guns in public? Let's see this as an unfortunate circumstance, and instead of getting angry at the police, try to learn and grow from it. This is what will solve America's problem. Unfortunately, the US population seems to be very angry and mistrusting of authority and the government. There are probably many, many reasons for that and they go way beyond the police and those need to be solved. If they are not, then there will be continued escalations and we are on a crash course for a civil war. No one should want that.
You keep wanting to make this a black and white scenario but it wasn't. The officer had a split second decision to make in which to them it seemed the lives of them and others in the park were in danger. They felt they needed to act based on the information they had and they were wrong. It's a tragic situation that occurred indeed but I'm not ready to crucify them for it.
If he was an adult, as he looked like, and he had pointed the gun it would have been too late. So you're pretty much sentencing the officer to death there, maybe not an experienced officer but almost certainly a new officer.
Again, there was non-compliance and lack of respect. He was told to put his hands up and he reached for the gun. Also, let's not ignore a serious failing of judgment in the case of the parents. I sure didn't let my kids play in a park without supervision at 12. Never mind the fact that he had made a toy gun look like a real gun and was pointing it at people. I can't even remember the last time I've seen kids play with guns at all; all parents I know disallow that kind of violent play. I chalk it up to glorification of guns in American society and lack of respect for the comfort of other people.
Also doesn't apply, there were reliable prior reports that he was pointing the gun at people in a way that frightened them enough to call the police. It wasn't just a case of 'it looked like there was a gun in his pants'.
No it is also a representation of capability to respond with deadly force. I get it, it's the kind of authority that many Americans resent, but it is what it is.
When has an officer ever shot someone because it looked like they had a gun in their pants? In the Minnesota incident, the driver announced he had a gun and was then asked to keep his hands visible and he didn't. In a tense situation, this is enough to get you shot. It's too bad that these confrontations have to be that tense, but that's just how society is.
I'm not sure what incident you are talking about where proper procedure wasn't followed. In the Minnisota incident the officer was trying to find out the whereabouts of the gun first which is proper procedure. I recently saw a good video with some black country music star (can't remember who) going over how to assist the officer in following a reasonable protocol. I couldn't believe that it wasn't common sense for most people, but I guess if it's not a refresher is good. The thing is, it is people who need to reduce the tension and break the cycle. Keep your hands visible, ask the police officer what he/she wants you to do next, understand between the two of you what is happening, stay on the same page. Let's not forget, if you consider the thousands of traffic stops that happen in the US every day it is the officers who are in the most dangerous situation. They are the ones who have the authority, let them control everything about the situation.
Maybe one of them had a Pinto out back he could rent.
To me it's all about my quality of living. If I have to work more hours, my cost goes up, housing expensive my cost goes up. If you're not going to end up with a better life in the end what's the point.
We're talking about police officers who are following proper procedure, not police officers that are going outside their procedure.
In a normal traffic stop, the cop is not there for long enough to earn respect. That's precisely why they have a badge and a gun. If you really feel that there is such a high percentage of corrupt police officers that you cannot assume they are worthy of your respect, then you need to move to a better place because you won't have a civil society for very long.
That doesn't mean obediently do everything they say and be a subservient gimp like you who just keeps their mouth shut no matter what happens.
This kind of attitude is exactly how people get themselves into trouble. If you are jealous of the officer's power then become an officer yourself. No, actually don't because people like you that resent police officers and don't feel you have to do what you say are very likely to abuse that power if you do get it.
Why do you think the police carry guns? When an officer asks you to do something, you comply period. It wouldn't have been that hard for Brown to get out of the street. But no, he called the officer's bluff and you just don't do that. I'm not saying he deserved a death sentence but I'm really not sure what else he thought would happen.
Why do I constantly get voted down for doing nothing more then suggesting a police officer should be given utmost respect?
The root of all these problems is the fact that hardly anyone in the US trusts the government, or believes in how the government operates. I see it here on slashdot all the time. Inevitably all discussions of what is wrong in the US comes down to it.
Everyone else is 100% responsible to make sure officers feel completely safe and respected at all times.
If the police lose this, then they won't be much good to protect anyone. We may as well disband all police forces immediately and being in martial law.
Or...maybe pull your head out. How many armed robbers take along 4yo girls in the backseat?
Now you're participating in the same kind of broad assumptions that get people into trouble in the first place.
If this is indeed what happened, then the shooting is a tragedy but I don't blame the officer. People need to respect what the police say in a situation like that, even without a gun in the vehicle.
So I would only be able to move during open enrollment then, or be prepared to drive back to Canada if I needed treatment until open enrollment period?
When you have multiple kids with school and a busy extra-curricular schedule, it really helps to have the parents around to help out. Especially if working more than 40 hours a week. I guess you could lean on friends that you meet, etc.. but then that's leaning on other people; the grandparents do it because they enjoy being with the grandkids.
I've heard that most insurance plans have lifetime caps, or restrictions on what doctor you can see, etc etc. Also, prior conditions are ok even if they happened in another country? In my experience here, it is a fight to get covered by an insurance company. Seriously, this is very intriguing to me.
So why don't you move?
Because people who have other priorities in life such as proximity to family shouldn't automatically be excluded from having a career. Sadly, the US seems to be reminiscent of the old days where pa would leave his family to go work in a mine to put food on the table. This, in days where telecommuting is easier then it ever has been.
Basically, I don't know what cancer treatment would cost in the US and don't know what the ins and outs are so I don't want to risk it.