About a year ago, I had a police officer come knocking on my door around midnight. I live in a part of town that's pretty safe. He had just arrested a naked man behind my apartment, when questioned, the man identified several different apartments he had been peeping into, mine was one of them. I had been outside, alone, in the dark walking my dog (I have a papillon, not anything a potential attacker would thing "threatening") about 30 minutes prior. Thankfully this man was just a pervert peeper, but what if he had wanted to come into my apartment and rape me? You don't think I deserve the right to protect myself?
I personally know 2 girls that have been murdered. No, not in high-crime, inner city neighborhoods either. In fact, one was in a small Kansas farm town. And no, neither one was shot either, their murderers choose to use more violent/physican methods, such as beating and strangulation.
You truly think that people today will never have to defend themselves? You think that nobody breaks into anyone else's home? You think nobody is ever mugged, raped, or murdered)?
How about this woman? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1u0Byq5Qis
As far as food goes, the majority of meat I ate growing up was what my family hunted. And I'm not that old, I'm 25. My parents still hunt the majority of their meat.
Since Australia banned handguns:
Countrywide, homicides are up 3.2 percent;
Assaults are up 8.6 percent;
Armed robberies have climbed nearly 45 percent;
In the Australian state of Victoria, gun homicides have climbed 300 percent;
In the 25 years before the gun bans, crime in Australia had been dropping steadily;
There has been a reported "dramatic increase" in home burglaries and assaults on the elderly.
Does your house burn down every day? No. But I'm willing to bet you probably have insurance in case it does.
Most of us will never encouter a madman, but the "it can't happen to me" attitude is naive. I know 2 girls that have been murdered, do you think they thought they would get murdered? And no, these weren't inner-city high-crime areas. One happened in Lawrence, KS and the other happened in Hill City, KS.
If she would have been the one to have gone mad, then another other person with a gun could stop her as well.
Sane people don't pull out their guns and start firing out of the blue.
A study in Florida CCW holders were 300 times less likely than the general population to commit a crime. A Texas study found that CCW holders in that state were "5.7 times less likely to commit a violent crime, and 14 times less likely to commit a non-violent offense."
The "last resort" is when it's either you (or perhaps your child or other individual) or the other guy.
If someone breaks into my home, of course I'm going to yell "get out" and try to get out myself instead of shooting at them. If they come at me, they're getting shot.
If this someone has a gun and you have a gun you would have to shoot first.
If he suspects that you have a gun he will shoot before you even know he was going to attack you and from farther than at arm's reach.
So to be safe with your gun you would have to shoot anybody around you that you suspect is going to attack you.
If you start doing that and a lot of people have guns, one of them will shoot you just to stop you.
Your gun does not make you safer, it make you and everybody around you less safe.
Quite the slippery slope fallacy you've got going on there.
Drawing and firing a weapon is a last resort. It's defensive, not offensive. If it comes down to "I can sit here and die, or I can try to defend myself", you sure as heck bet I'm taking the latter option!
Also, your situation is only taking into account a single type of situation.
I'm guessing you didn't watch the Suzanna Hupp video?
People do not hunt with the same king of guns that are used to shoot people
ANY gun can be used to shoot people. If you break into my home and I'm in my bedroom, I'll pull out a shotgun over using a handgun.
Anyway, I expect the usual 800-post NRA/2nd Amendment gun nuts vs rational people thread.
Why do you think it's irrational for someone to want to protect themselves, their family, and their property; and have a means to put food on the table?
It would make a heydey for criminals, too. They would know that whoever their victim is would be unarmed. Look at what happened in Australia when they banned guns: crime skyrocketed.
I'm a 115 pound woman. If I'm within arm's reach of someone trying to harm me, like I would have to be to defend myself with a knife, I've already lost.
Also, guns aren't purely for "attack" or "defense". Many people target-shoot or trap-shoot recreationally or competitively; it's an olympic sport. Guns also provide a means of getting food for those who hunt.
Guess what? I have 2 very sharp 10" chef's knives in my kitchen, they slice through meat (i.e. flesh) with ease. He could have just as easily used a chef's knife to kill and wound his parents as he did a gun.
"If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns."
How about a society where I, a 250 pounds muscle freak do not use my physical power to force you, the 100 pounds computer nerd, to do anything you don't want to, just because I am civilized? No need for guns.
There always have been and always will be "evil people". Your utopia simply doesn't exist.
Gun owners don't want to shoot people. People that concealed carry are are far from "trigger happy", it's a last resort. No, having a gun doesn't automatically make you safe, but it does even the odds. If only the "bad guys" have guns, they will do far more harm. Remember the off-duty police officer that shot the man at the mall that was shooting innocent shoppers? It would have been many times worse if there wasn't someone armed other than the "bad guy". http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,251864,00.html
I'm a 115 pound woman. What would you have me do if some 250 pound man broke into my home with the intention of harming me? I'm just supposed to lay down and take it and not be able to defend myself? No thank you!
What about defense? I much prefer to have a gun to defend myself than a hammer.
If someone really want to kill another person, they'll find a way. Doesn't matter if they have a gun or not.
^ Actually, that was my point. My post wasn't a "defense", it was meant to imply that it's silly to bring religion in to it to begin with, espeically when claims can be so easily contradicted.
I think it's irrevelent what weapon was used. If it wasn't a gun, it would have likely been a knife. It was premeditated murder, the kid knew he was out to kill harm parents and would have found a way to do it regardless of what tools he had access to.
When I was unemployeed this summer, I applied to be a teller at a bank. Sure, it wouldn't have been a great job, but it would be better than no job.
They picked my resume out of the stack. Called me up, and directed me to take their oline-personality test. It consisted of questions like "how many hours a week do you talk on the phone?", "how many nights a week do you go out with friends?", and other completely non-job-related questions.
After I took the test online, it came up "failed". I called the company, they told me that nothing else matters, only the personality test.
I didn't matter that I had a college degree with a minor in business. It didn't matter that I already had experience in a similar position. It didn't matter that I had superb customer service skills and glowing recommendations from former bosses. All that mattered to them was the silly test.
If he has broken into my house and a gun, he gets shot.
If he has broken into my house doesn't have a gun, I'd say "get out". If he doesn't, or starts coming towards me, he gets shot.
No, having a gun doesn't guarantee you are safe or will be unharmed. But it sure helps to even the odds.
So rather than someone shooting an attacker in self defense, they're just supposed to lay down and get mugged/raped/murdered? Sorry, but if someone is putting me or my loved ones in a life-threatening situation, they're going to get a nice little lead present. I'm a 115 pound women, there is no way I could defend myself against a 250 pound man using only my own strength. Call the police? Here's an idea: check the response time in your city for highest priority calls. In my city, it's 11 minutes. Police get there in time to take a report of what happened, not to prevent it from happening.
Guns also serve the purpose of providing food. I grew up on game meat. My parently rarely bought meat at the store. We didn't have a lot of money, it was cheaper to put food on the table by hunting rather than buying from the store. And healthier too, since the animals were grass-fed and not pumped full of horomones.
You don't read too often about a kid finding and playing with a gun and killing their playmate when their parents have taken the time to educate the child about guns.
The ones you hear about are children who find a gun and are curious because their parents never took the time to explain gun safety to them.
Slashdot Mirror
About a year ago, I had a police officer come knocking on my door around midnight. I live in a part of town that's pretty safe. He had just arrested a naked man behind my apartment, when questioned, the man identified several different apartments he had been peeping into, mine was one of them. I had been outside, alone, in the dark walking my dog (I have a papillon, not anything a potential attacker would thing "threatening") about 30 minutes prior. Thankfully this man was just a pervert peeper, but what if he had wanted to come into my apartment and rape me? You don't think I deserve the right to protect myself?
I personally know 2 girls that have been murdered. No, not in high-crime, inner city neighborhoods either. In fact, one was in a small Kansas farm town. And no, neither one was shot either, their murderers choose to use more violent/physican methods, such as beating and strangulation.
You are quite naive if you think that.
You truly think that people today will never have to defend themselves? You think that nobody breaks into anyone else's home? You think nobody is ever mugged, raped, or murdered)?
How about this woman? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1u0Byq5Qis
As far as food goes, the majority of meat I ate growing up was what my family hunted. And I'm not that old, I'm 25. My parents still hunt the majority of their meat.
Since Australia banned handguns:
Countrywide, homicides are up 3.2 percent;
Assaults are up 8.6 percent;
Armed robberies have climbed nearly 45 percent;
In the Australian state of Victoria, gun homicides have climbed 300 percent;
In the 25 years before the gun bans, crime in Australia had been dropping steadily;
There has been a reported "dramatic increase" in home burglaries and assaults on the elderly.
let me guess, they got shot?
No, neither one was shot.
Anyway you will not convince me and I will not convince you, even if tons of evidence support my view.
And there's just as much, if not more, to support gun-ownership.
Does your house burn down every day? No. But I'm willing to bet you probably have insurance in case it does.
Most of us will never encouter a madman, but the "it can't happen to me" attitude is naive. I know 2 girls that have been murdered, do you think they thought they would get murdered? And no, these weren't inner-city high-crime areas. One happened in Lawrence, KS and the other happened in Hill City, KS.
If she would have been the one to have gone mad, then another other person with a gun could stop her as well.
Sane people don't pull out their guns and start firing out of the blue.
A study in Florida CCW holders were 300 times less likely than the general population to commit a crime. A Texas study found that CCW holders in that state were "5.7 times less likely to commit a violent crime, and 14 times less likely to commit a non-violent offense."
The "last resort" is when it's either you (or perhaps your child or other individual) or the other guy.
If someone breaks into my home, of course I'm going to yell "get out" and try to get out myself instead of shooting at them. If they come at me, they're getting shot.
Here's the story about the mall shooting Feb 13 2007. If that off-duty officer (or someone else that was legally carrying a handgun) wasn't there, how many more people would have been killed? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/13/national/main2466711.shtml
If this someone has a gun and you have a gun you would have to shoot first. If he suspects that you have a gun he will shoot before you even know he was going to attack you and from farther than at arm's reach. So to be safe with your gun you would have to shoot anybody around you that you suspect is going to attack you. If you start doing that and a lot of people have guns, one of them will shoot you just to stop you. Your gun does not make you safer, it make you and everybody around you less safe.
Quite the slippery slope fallacy you've got going on there.
Drawing and firing a weapon is a last resort. It's defensive, not offensive. If it comes down to "I can sit here and die, or I can try to defend myself", you sure as heck bet I'm taking the latter option!
Also, your situation is only taking into account a single type of situation.
I'm guessing you didn't watch the Suzanna Hupp video?
People do not hunt with the same king of guns that are used to shoot people
ANY gun can be used to shoot people. If you break into my home and I'm in my bedroom, I'll pull out a shotgun over using a handgun.
Anyway, I expect the usual 800-post NRA/2nd Amendment gun nuts vs rational people thread.
Why do you think it's irrational for someone to want to protect themselves, their family, and their property; and have a means to put food on the table?
It would make a heydey for criminals, too. They would know that whoever their victim is would be unarmed. Look at what happened in Australia when they banned guns: crime skyrocketed.
I'm a 115 pound woman. If I'm within arm's reach of someone trying to harm me, like I would have to be to defend myself with a knife, I've already lost.
I suggest you check out:
http://www.a-human-right.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1u0Byq5Qis
Also, guns aren't purely for "attack" or "defense". Many people target-shoot or trap-shoot recreationally or competitively; it's an olympic sport. Guns also provide a means of getting food for those who hunt.
How about the fact that this kid obviously isn't "normal" and would have found a way to harm his parents regardless of what tools he had available?
Guess what? I have 2 very sharp 10" chef's knives in my kitchen, they slice through meat (i.e. flesh) with ease. He could have just as easily used a chef's knife to kill and wound his parents as he did a gun. "If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns."
How about a society where I, a 250 pounds muscle freak do not use my physical power to force you, the 100 pounds computer nerd, to do anything you don't want to, just because I am civilized? No need for guns.
There always have been and always will be "evil people". Your utopia simply doesn't exist.
Gun owners don't want to shoot people. People that concealed carry are are far from "trigger happy", it's a last resort. No, having a gun doesn't automatically make you safe, but it does even the odds. If only the "bad guys" have guns, they will do far more harm. Remember the off-duty police officer that shot the man at the mall that was shooting innocent shoppers? It would have been many times worse if there wasn't someone armed other than the "bad guy". http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,251864,00.html
I'm a 115 pound woman. What would you have me do if some 250 pound man broke into my home with the intention of harming me? I'm just supposed to lay down and take it and not be able to defend myself? No thank you!
Suzanne Hupp's testimony about the 2nd amendment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1u0Byq5Qis
http://www.a-human-right.com/
What about defense? I much prefer to have a gun to defend myself than a hammer. If someone really want to kill another person, they'll find a way. Doesn't matter if they have a gun or not.
Of course it would have! The kid had planned to harm his parents. If it wasn't a gun, it would have been another weapon.
^ Actually, that was my point. My post wasn't a "defense", it was meant to imply that it's silly to bring religion in to it to begin with, espeically when claims can be so easily contradicted.
So the kid thought his mother and father were both Jesus?
I think it's irrevelent what weapon was used. If it wasn't a gun, it would have likely been a knife. It was premeditated murder, the kid knew he was out to kill harm parents and would have found a way to do it regardless of what tools he had access to.
By the time I started target-shooting at age 7, I knew that shooting something in the head would kill it and would be dead forever.
FYI, the Bible also says "thou shall not kill".
When I was unemployeed this summer, I applied to be a teller at a bank. Sure, it wouldn't have been a great job, but it would be better than no job.
They picked my resume out of the stack. Called me up, and directed me to take their oline-personality test. It consisted of questions like "how many hours a week do you talk on the phone?", "how many nights a week do you go out with friends?", and other completely non-job-related questions.
After I took the test online, it came up "failed". I called the company, they told me that nothing else matters, only the personality test.
I didn't matter that I had a college degree with a minor in business. It didn't matter that I already had experience in a similar position. It didn't matter that I had superb customer service skills and glowing recommendations from former bosses. All that mattered to them was the silly test.
You know what scares me? People who want to take away my right to protect myself and my loved ones.
It isn't OK to have a gun for "defense".
How, praytell, do you suggest I defend myself then?
If he has broken into my house and a gun, he gets shot.
If he has broken into my house doesn't have a gun, I'd say "get out". If he doesn't, or starts coming towards me, he gets shot.
No, having a gun doesn't guarantee you are safe or will be unharmed. But it sure helps to even the odds.
So rather than someone shooting an attacker in self defense, they're just supposed to lay down and get mugged/raped/murdered? Sorry, but if someone is putting me or my loved ones in a life-threatening situation, they're going to get a nice little lead present. I'm a 115 pound women, there is no way I could defend myself against a 250 pound man using only my own strength. Call the police? Here's an idea: check the response time in your city for highest priority calls. In my city, it's 11 minutes. Police get there in time to take a report of what happened, not to prevent it from happening.
Guns also serve the purpose of providing food. I grew up on game meat. My parently rarely bought meat at the store. We didn't have a lot of money, it was cheaper to put food on the table by hunting rather than buying from the store. And healthier too, since the animals were grass-fed and not pumped full of horomones.
You don't read too often about a kid finding and playing with a gun and killing their playmate when their parents have taken the time to educate the child about guns.
The ones you hear about are children who find a gun and are curious because their parents never took the time to explain gun safety to them.
http://www.nrahq.org/safety/eddie/