Well, I didn't mean that nobody uses it anymore, but more along the lines of there's no longer a market for it. Current users still had to support it in their own company environments, but there was basically no further penetration of the market. As far as the three higher-ups leaving, it was because they saw the product for which they were responsible being killed off.
After they left, there was a lot of talk in the community that the product would be opensourced, but there was also a lot of talk that it would just be orphaned. Now, for open source advocates, they think it's a wonderful thing, but a lot of people that I know who still actually have to support these environments believe that this is the beginning of the end for any real support from Inprise.
Like I said, it's embarrassing to see all the cheering over this here -- Inprise isn't making some bold move here, they're just giving away code that they were about to toss into the garbage. For InterBase users, it's like getting a consolation prize ("Well, at least they didn't kill it."), and for the rah rah crowd here, it's like celebrating being handed some refuse that was about to be thrown out (forgetting, of course, that there's a reason why InterBase was on its last legs in the first place, and it wasn't 'cause it was closed source). Yippee.
Bugger: Who is spreading FUD? Are you denying that those people quit? Are you telling me that InterBase was a thriving product? In the future, please quit tossing the word "FUD" around every time you get your panties in a bunch.
Jay Vaughan, who says that "the rest of us [will] take over their product and continue to enhance and improve it in true OpenSource fashion": What, you mean like Mozilla? What is it, almost two years late now? For a browser?? Besides, I recall that after the flop of Mozilla, ESR backpedaled and said that he never claimed that his cathedral utopia would work for closed source products being opened up (Which, of course, begs the question of why he goes around claiming credit for the opening of Mozilla, if his CatB fantasy didn't apply to them, but that's a discussion for another day). What is the difference in this case?
C'mon guys, seeing some of you get so excited about this stuff makes me embarrassed for you. InterBase is such a dead product, it's not even funny. In fact, just last Tuesday, Inprise confirmed that Bill Karwin, InterBase product manager, Paul Beach, director of business development, and Wayne Ostiguy, manager of technical support, have left the company.
I wear glasses and a suit when I post as Karma-whore-guy-antagonist-guy, but when posting as Karma-whore-guy, I take them off, let a curl of hair dangle over my forehead, and put on a cape. Sure, it might sound like an easily-detectable disguise, but you're the only one who's caught me so far!
Well, I guess you don't know what the reference to Niemoller was all about, then. Put down the Wired magazine and go learn some history so that next time your contribution is a little more substantial than some usenet-geek-wannabe reference to Godwin. Think perhaps you can grok that meme?
As for Mr. Christiansen, if I had to do it all over again, I would have emailed him privately and left out the jackass part, but like I said, at the time I was pretty amazed by what he wrote.
I'm pretty amazed that you would actually relate the atrocities committed by the Nazis in the first half of the twentieth century with your problem of not being able to view DVDs on your BSD box. Should I assume that you didn't have any relatives who died in the Holocaust, or are you even more clueless than I give you credit for being?
Maybe it's because places like Linux Today and Slashdot obsess over polls and steer people to them, as this article shows. It's a pretty sad and embarrassing inferiority complex if you ask me.
I don't remember any Windows newsletters/websites/etc. ever telling people to go vote in "Best OS" polls to inflate Windows's numbers. Perhaps they're just happier with their choice and don't need a web poll to help reassure them that they didn't make a bad decision, like Linux, OS/2, and Mac users apparently do.
NT is absolutely slaughtering Linux in the e-commerce market. Perhaps you haven't noticed, but most people don't want to make their own server to get things done. That's why Microsoft is cleaning up the e-commerce market with all the e-commerce tools available for NT, while Linux is just reinventing the wheel. Obviously, all those customers don't have problems with NT stability -- and that's because they're actually using it instead of getting their information from a Slashdot script kiddie who claims that he gets a BSOD everyday.
And really now, uptime? This is such a canard. Those of us who keep up with the latest improvements are happy to reboot to use a new kernel. Which do you think is more important to businesses: using a more mature kernel, or masturbating while they type "uptime" over and over?
Hey, I know I'm not the easiest guy to get along with around here, but for those of you whose clocks haven't struck midnight, here's hoping that everyone has a very fun and safe time tonight. Seeya in 2000...
Cheers, and this time I really mean it, ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Now that IE 4/5 has 80% of the browser market, and increasing every week, only the most suicidal banking site wouldn't make sure that their site works under IE.
Secondly, I use free software on my desktops all the time -- Perl, Python and various Cygnus tools come to mind, as well as some servers running Linux (two of them for two different startups). The difference is that I use the best tool for the particular job, instead of trying to shoehorn Linux in where it is particularly ill-suited -- namely the desktop.
Oh yeah, and I tried Mozilla out two weeks ago, and it still has a long way to go. Cute "Shop" button, though.:)
'Cause it ain't gonna happen. People like you wonder why people use Windows or Macs, when the answer is staring you right in the face. It's because they can actually get work done and have fun because they don't have to deal with this shit. Look at all the time that's been wasted by people such as yourself in the past two weeks, because this site, and that site, and that other site aren't supporting your OS choice -- we won't even get into software and hardware. Until Linux can make some serious gains on the desktop, I'll keep it on some of my servers, where it belongs, and I'll just keep getting work done and having fun using Win2K while you pull your hair out over petty little stuff like this.
You can moderate me down all you want, but just try thinking about it sometime.
I said that I doubted that there were "all that many [in comparision]," not that Netscape didn't have any affluent users.
Look at it this way: out of all the operating systems for which IE isn't available natively, the two most popular ones on which a person would be trying to connect to this bank's site would probably be Linux users and BSD users. And aside from the folks who struck it rich on the Linux IPOs, you're not exactly looking at a demographic flush with financial success.
Not that this is the case here, but perhaps a company wants to design a site using a specific valid HTML 4.0 layout which Netscape is unable to display correctly. Then, looking at the demographics, they see that Netscape now has less than 20% of the browser market, and that only half of those users are the type of clients that they're trying to attract. They might just decide that keeping their current layout and losing some users is a better deal than redesigning the site in an inferior way.
It's completely fair on their part. You are the one who chose an operating system for which IE is unavailable, and you need to be prepared for the negative aspects of that decision. If I pulled my C-64 out of storage and decided to make that my main OS, it'd be ludicrous of me to complain to Id that it's not fair of them to deny me the fun of playing Q3-Arena just because I'm using a C-64.
Just like Win95 ran fine on a 486 DX50 with 16 megs of ram, eh?
Ahh, it's always so much fun being told my experience really didn't happen by a moron who's never even used the product. Let's all bow down to the eleet skillz of C.Lee.
<Putting on glasses and a "Yoda Lives!" t-shirt> Screw Forrester! Why was this even posted on Slashdot? Everybody knows this is bogus because with Internet time being so fast, nobody can predict what's going to happen in the next few years.
Now shut up so I can tell you that Linux will soon achieve world domination and Microsoft will be bankrupt by 2002!
Note that Samba currently has problems with most PDC and BDC scenarios and share ACLs among other things, and I'm not too sure that Win2K hasn't also introduced some issues with Samba compatibility.
Win2K Pro runs great on my Pentium 266 MMX laptop with 64MB of RAM, and the server version runs great on my dual Pentium 200 non-MMX with 64MB of RAM. Considering how long it's been since practically anybody sold systems with such paltry specs, those "hellacious requirments" of yours will have zero impact on the OEM market.
Honestly, I can't think of any group that spreads as much FUD as do Linux zealots at Slashdot. And yes, that includes all corporations and most governments.
Other than that, since my RC-2 box had been up for about 85 days until I moved up to RC-3, I'd say that the guy needs a new reporting tool.
Heh, I've gotta admit that I actually like Jerry Lawler. He's always struck me as a harmless teddy bearish type of guy, and when I happened to bump into him in Memphis a couple of years back, it didn't change my mind. When I was a little tyke, I'd always watch his wrestling show on Saturday mornings. I visit friends in Memphis every now and then, and last time I was there I even got myself a Lawler for Mayor bumper sticker -- no, I didn't actually put it on my car.:P
Then again, I also picked up some bumper sticker from some guy running for Memphis mayor who thinks he's a space alien or something (is Mongo his name?), so it's just possible that I need my head examined.
Yes, it's just as ethical as Apple including the CyberDog web browser with MacOS for free, as ethical as Sun including the HotJava web browser with Solaris for free, etc. It's completely ethical. A company that makes an operating system should have the ability to define what comes with it, and if customers don't like it, they have the freedom to leave.
And yes, Virginia, there is a free lunch. For example, our friendly BeOS user downloads Mozilla. What are the hidden costs to him involved with this?
And actually, the cost of Netshow Server is mortgaged by the potential income and power that will be there for Microsoft if they're able to spread their particular media solution far and wide.
We are certainly independent thinkers the rest of the time.
Actually, the geek stereotype is one of the most common and well-known stereotypes that there is. The fact that you're at Slashdot and trying to explain what an independent thinker you are shows that you're doing a good job of fitting that stereotype. It's hard to take the group seriously as a bunch of free-thinkers when they're falling all over themselves to act just like everyone else. It's just like the little goth kiddies who think they're so independent, even though they all dress and act alike.
I'm an independent thinker, and I wanna be unique! (Just like everybody else)
I did think that Carrey did a masterful job of portraying Kaufman, but the lack of a story is what made this movie a dud for me. I wanted to see more insight into what made Kaufman the person he was.
Basically, the movie just redid a lot of Kaufman's comedy bits, except with Carrey in his place. The thing is, almost all of these are available on TV/video, so you would think that the movie would go deeper than that. Well, they didn't.
I did laugh a lot during the movie, but the word-for-word imitations just aren't nearly as funny as Kaufman doing them. It's not that I wouldn't recommend not seeing this flick, I just was disappointed. If you're undecided, you might want to wait until it's on video or cable. Seeing Kaufman's old tapes are better than seeing this flick.
On a humorous note, did anyone notice how, even though everyone else was wearing their hair and their clothes as if they were in the particular time period of the movie, David Letterman looked exactly like he just walked off the set yesterday? I guess he wasn't exactly thrilled with the project, because the word is that he told them that he'd only give them 90 minutes to shoot the scene, and he refused to do his hair/makeup/clothes/glasses like the early '80s Dave.
Slashdot Mirror
Well, I didn't mean that nobody uses it anymore, but more along the lines of there's no longer a market for it. Current users still had to support it in their own company environments, but there was basically no further penetration of the market. As far as the three higher-ups leaving, it was because they saw the product for which they were responsible being killed off.
After they left, there was a lot of talk in the community that the product would be opensourced, but there was also a lot of talk that it would just be orphaned. Now, for open source advocates, they think it's a wonderful thing, but a lot of people that I know who still actually have to support these environments believe that this is the beginning of the end for any real support from Inprise.
Like I said, it's embarrassing to see all the cheering over this here -- Inprise isn't making some bold move here, they're just giving away code that they were about to toss into the garbage. For InterBase users, it's like getting a consolation prize ("Well, at least they didn't kill it."), and for the rah rah crowd here, it's like celebrating being handed some refuse that was about to be thrown out (forgetting, of course, that there's a reason why InterBase was on its last legs in the first place, and it wasn't 'cause it was closed source). Yippee.
Bugger: Who is spreading FUD? Are you denying that those people quit? Are you telling me that InterBase was a thriving product? In the future, please quit tossing the word "FUD" around every time you get your panties in a bunch.
Jay Vaughan, who says that "the rest of us [will] take over their product and continue to enhance and improve it in true OpenSource fashion": What, you mean like Mozilla? What is it, almost two years late now? For a browser?? Besides, I recall that after the flop of Mozilla, ESR backpedaled and said that he never claimed that his cathedral utopia would work for closed source products being opened up (Which, of course, begs the question of why he goes around claiming credit for the opening of Mozilla, if his CatB fantasy didn't apply to them, but that's a discussion for another day). What is the difference in this case?
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
C'mon guys, seeing some of you get so excited about this stuff makes me embarrassed for you. InterBase is such a dead product, it's not even funny. In fact, just last Tuesday, Inprise confirmed that Bill Karwin, InterBase product manager, Paul Beach, director of business development, and Wayne Ostiguy, manager of technical support, have left the company.
Yeah, sounds real promising all right...
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
I wear glasses and a suit when I post as Karma-whore-guy-antagonist-guy, but when posting as Karma-whore-guy, I take them off, let a curl of hair dangle over my forehead, and put on a cape. Sure, it might sound like an easily-detectable disguise, but you're the only one who's caught me so far!
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Well, I guess you don't know what the reference to Niemoller was all about, then. Put down the Wired magazine and go learn some history so that next time your contribution is a little more substantial than some usenet-geek-wannabe reference to Godwin. Think perhaps you can grok that meme?
As for Mr. Christiansen, if I had to do it all over again, I would have emailed him privately and left out the jackass part, but like I said, at the time I was pretty amazed by what he wrote.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
I'm pretty amazed that you would actually relate the atrocities committed by the Nazis in the first half of the twentieth century with your problem of not being able to view DVDs on your BSD box. Should I assume that you didn't have any relatives who died in the Holocaust, or are you even more clueless than I give you credit for being?
You are an utter jackass.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Karma whore guy
Karma whore guy
Seekin' all the karma his money can buy
Does he have a life?
It's not important
Nobody likes
Karma whore guy
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Maybe it's because places like Linux Today and Slashdot obsess over polls and steer people to them, as this article shows. It's a pretty sad and embarrassing inferiority complex if you ask me.
I don't remember any Windows newsletters/websites/etc. ever telling people to go vote in "Best OS" polls to inflate Windows's numbers. Perhaps they're just happier with their choice and don't need a web poll to help reassure them that they didn't make a bad decision, like Linux, OS/2, and Mac users apparently do.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
NT is absolutely slaughtering Linux in the e-commerce market. Perhaps you haven't noticed, but most people don't want to make their own server to get things done. That's why Microsoft is cleaning up the e-commerce market with all the e-commerce tools available for NT, while Linux is just reinventing the wheel. Obviously, all those customers don't have problems with NT stability -- and that's because they're actually using it instead of getting their information from a Slashdot script kiddie who claims that he gets a BSOD everyday.
And really now, uptime? This is such a canard. Those of us who keep up with the latest improvements are happy to reboot to use a new kernel. Which do you think is more important to businesses: using a more mature kernel, or masturbating while they type "uptime" over and over?
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Hey, I know I'm not the easiest guy to get along with around here, but for those of you whose clocks haven't struck midnight, here's hoping that everyone has a very fun and safe time tonight. Seeya in 2000...
Cheers, and this time I really mean it,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Now that IE 4/5 has 80% of the browser market, and increasing every week, only the most suicidal banking site wouldn't make sure that their site works under IE.
Secondly, I use free software on my desktops all the time -- Perl, Python and various Cygnus tools come to mind, as well as some servers running Linux (two of them for two different startups). The difference is that I use the best tool for the particular job, instead of trying to shoehorn Linux in where it is particularly ill-suited -- namely the desktop.
Oh yeah, and I tried Mozilla out two weeks ago, and it still has a long way to go. Cute "Shop" button, though. :)
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
'Cause it ain't gonna happen. People like you wonder why people use Windows or Macs, when the answer is staring you right in the face. It's because they can actually get work done and have fun because they don't have to deal with this shit. Look at all the time that's been wasted by people such as yourself in the past two weeks, because this site, and that site, and that other site aren't supporting your OS choice -- we won't even get into software and hardware. Until Linux can make some serious gains on the desktop, I'll keep it on some of my servers, where it belongs, and I'll just keep getting work done and having fun using Win2K while you pull your hair out over petty little stuff like this.
You can moderate me down all you want, but just try thinking about it sometime.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
I said that I doubted that there were "all that many [in comparision]," not that Netscape didn't have any affluent users.
Look at it this way: out of all the operating systems for which IE isn't available natively, the two most popular ones on which a person would be trying to connect to this bank's site would probably be Linux users and BSD users. And aside from the folks who struck it rich on the Linux IPOs, you're not exactly looking at a demographic flush with financial success.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Not that this is the case here, but perhaps a company wants to design a site using a specific valid HTML 4.0 layout which Netscape is unable to display correctly. Then, looking at the demographics, they see that Netscape now has less than 20% of the browser market, and that only half of those users are the type of clients that they're trying to attract. They might just decide that keeping their current layout and losing some users is a better deal than redesigning the site in an inferior way.
It's completely fair on their part. You are the one who chose an operating system for which IE is unavailable, and you need to be prepared for the negative aspects of that decision. If I pulled my C-64 out of storage and decided to make that my main OS, it'd be ludicrous of me to complain to Id that it's not fair of them to deny me the fun of playing Q3-Arena just because I'm using a C-64.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
A reality check like this was long overdue.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
It's a little hard to believe that there are all that many affluent people who would be using Netscape, compared to those who use Internet Explorer.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Just like Win95 ran fine on a 486 DX50 with 16 megs of ram, eh?
Ahh, it's always so much fun being told my experience really didn't happen by a moron who's never even used the product. Let's all bow down to the eleet skillz of C.Lee.
Happy trollin', zealot.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
<Putting on glasses and a "Yoda Lives!" t-shirt> Screw Forrester! Why was this even posted on Slashdot? Everybody knows this is bogus because with Internet time being so fast, nobody can predict what's going to happen in the next few years.
Now shut up so I can tell you that Linux will soon achieve world domination and Microsoft will be bankrupt by 2002!
:-)
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
You can get the entire Using Samba online at O'Reilly's web site.
Note that Samba currently has problems with most PDC and BDC scenarios and share ACLs among other things, and I'm not too sure that Win2K hasn't also introduced some issues with Samba compatibility.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Win2K Pro runs great on my Pentium 266 MMX laptop with 64MB of RAM, and the server version runs great on my dual Pentium 200 non-MMX with 64MB of RAM. Considering how long it's been since practically anybody sold systems with such paltry specs, those "hellacious requirments" of yours will have zero impact on the OEM market.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
I'm not sure that he ever actually finished the reading, but he read at least several chapters at some shows.
Something else in the same vein that he used to do was to sing the entire "99 Bottles of Beer on the Wall" song for the audience.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Honestly, I can't think of any group that spreads as much FUD as do Linux zealots at Slashdot. And yes, that includes all corporations and most governments.
Other than that, since my RC-2 box had been up for about 85 days until I moved up to RC-3, I'd say that the guy needs a new reporting tool.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Heh, I've gotta admit that I actually like Jerry Lawler. He's always struck me as a harmless teddy bearish type of guy, and when I happened to bump into him in Memphis a couple of years back, it didn't change my mind. When I was a little tyke, I'd always watch his wrestling show on Saturday mornings. I visit friends in Memphis every now and then, and last time I was there I even got myself a Lawler for Mayor bumper sticker -- no, I didn't actually put it on my car. :P
Then again, I also picked up some bumper sticker from some guy running for Memphis mayor who thinks he's a space alien or something (is Mongo his name?), so it's just possible that I need my head examined.
Interesting website, btw.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com/p.
Yes, it's just as ethical as Apple including the CyberDog web browser with MacOS for free, as ethical as Sun including the HotJava web browser with Solaris for free, etc. It's completely ethical. A company that makes an operating system should have the ability to define what comes with it, and if customers don't like it, they have the freedom to leave.
And yes, Virginia, there is a free lunch. For example, our friendly BeOS user downloads Mozilla. What are the hidden costs to him involved with this?
And actually, the cost of Netshow Server is mortgaged by the potential income and power that will be there for Microsoft if they're able to spread their particular media solution far and wide.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
We are certainly independent thinkers the rest of the time.
Actually, the geek stereotype is one of the most common and well-known stereotypes that there is. The fact that you're at Slashdot and trying to explain what an independent thinker you are shows that you're doing a good job of fitting that stereotype. It's hard to take the group seriously as a bunch of free-thinkers when they're falling all over themselves to act just like everyone else. It's just like the little goth kiddies who think they're so independent, even though they all dress and act alike.
I'm an independent thinker, and I wanna be unique! (Just like everybody else)
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
I did think that Carrey did a masterful job of portraying Kaufman, but the lack of a story is what made this movie a dud for me. I wanted to see more insight into what made Kaufman the person he was.
Basically, the movie just redid a lot of Kaufman's comedy bits, except with Carrey in his place. The thing is, almost all of these are available on TV/video, so you would think that the movie would go deeper than that. Well, they didn't.
I did laugh a lot during the movie, but the word-for-word imitations just aren't nearly as funny as Kaufman doing them. It's not that I wouldn't recommend not seeing this flick, I just was disappointed. If you're undecided, you might want to wait until it's on video or cable. Seeing Kaufman's old tapes are better than seeing this flick.
On a humorous note, did anyone notice how, even though everyone else was wearing their hair and their clothes as if they were in the particular time period of the movie, David Letterman looked exactly like he just walked off the set yesterday? I guess he wasn't exactly thrilled with the project, because the word is that he told them that he'd only give them 90 minutes to shoot the scene, and he refused to do his hair/makeup/clothes/glasses like the early '80s Dave.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com