SunOS 5 (the OS component of Solaris 2.x) certainly was built from the ground up with SMP support in mind. They knew they'd need it; SunOS 4 had MP support before SunOS 5 was even thought of.
I think not. Some later versions of SunOS 4.x could _run_ on SMP hardware but none could actually make use of more than one CPU. Not counting Solbourne's hacked version, of course.
I don't know enough about Solaris history to say whether SunOS 5.x supported SMP from the first releast, but they started with AT&T code which definitely wasn't designed with SMP in mind. And Sun had to do a _lot_ of deep hacking to get it to scale as well as it does.
Having read substantial portions of both the NetBSD and Linux networking code, I have to say that, even though it's much older, the BSD code is much better designed.
Hate to respond to flamebait in kind, but:
I've never seen a "kernel panic: out of mbufs" on Linux.
Gee, thanks for letting us know which Un*x is the choice people who quit using Un*x.
Actually, while Linux's init is SysV-like, most of the user tools where the difference matters (ps, df) are BSD-like. As far as API, you get POSIX by default and can take your pick of BSD or SysV extensions with appropriate compile flags.
Really, the only ways Linux is SysV like are either ones where SysV won the standards war, or where it is obviously just better, e.g. init.
My main problem with *BSD personally is that you still have to install most of the GNU tools by hand due to *BSD licensing/NIH/minimalism issues. I prefer to have a reasonably featureful command set out of the box.
"Besides, it's an INSTALLER. What do you need it for other than to install their distro from their CD's?"
Because I like to share my CDs with my friends. I can do that with my Red Hat CD. Even though SuSE may have slightly more revenue, Red Hat probably has a lot more users.
The listener's (I don't know his name) comment was that Oracle (which doesn't give away their software, The listener's (I don't know his name) comment was that Oracle (which doesn't give away their software,I wouldn't call them a "semi-open-source" company) makes some large percentage of their revenue from support. He then went on to point out that their revenue per employee was far less than Microsoft's. In other words, his point was that the business model Eric was proposing isn't as profitable a business model.
Perhaps a more fair comparison would be to compare the revenues/employee from companies that have similar product lines and market positions, but different support vs. product sales revenue breakdowns?
Oracle doesn't have cash cow desktop OS or productivity suite monopolies, you know.
Thereby proving the assertions that Linux has not a single original concept in it.
So? There's something to be said for implementing someone else's ideas well.
As for solid foundation, this isn't a house, you can redo a foundation.
It's a lot harder to rewrite basic code that underlies everything else than to change superficial things, though.
Linux is an incremental add of SMP onto an incremental add of modularity onto a monolithic kernel based on designs out of an ancient book for an obsolete teaching OS.
As opposed to the NT "micro"kernel where the GUI runs in kernel mode and device drivers can pop up GUI message boxes or call into pretty much any user space code. Where you can't upgrade your system libraries without rebooting. Where you _have_ to upgrade your system libraries (and therefore reboot) to install nearly any interesting new piece of software.
Gee, that sounds like a _much_ better design.
A lot of these design issues can't even be fixed without severely breaking backward compatibility, either, and back compatibility is the number one reason the windows franchise goes on.
How much time does that take? You copy, paste the very detailed explanation of the BSoD, e-mail to MS and they send you new code within the day. It's really very simple....
You're joking, right?
Re:NT on an Alpha?? What is wrong with that world?
on
1GHz Alphas
·
· Score: 1
Linux is 64-bit on 64-bit architectures such as the Alpha or the UltraSPARC.
Probably. But I wonder how Linux will do relative to the BeOS and also the Mac version, and what fraction of the Windows sales it will hit. Most of the stores I tried in the area (Boston/Cambridge) were sold out within a day or two of getting the shipment.
I had to drive all the way to Marlboro (consult Mapquest for an indication of how far this is) to get a live copy.
Of course, stores probably ordered a lot fewer Linux copies than Windows copies, but this is still an interesting data point.
BTW, to the other poster who said he didn't think it was a fun game, I disagree... it's quite different than the other Civs but I think it is still cool.
Now my question is, does any of this change the fact that it is illegal? Nope. So are you telling me that it's okay to break the law because it is beneficial to me?
The fact that something is illegal does not prove it is immoral or harmful to others. For exampling, possessing certain common North American plants is highly illegal in the United States. In many states oral sex is still illegal. It is illegal to say the word "fuck" on the radio (but "bitch" is OK). In the state of Massachussets it is illegal to purchase alcohol on a Sunday, or for a consenting adult to get a tattoo (although body piercings are fine). I can already imagine someone saying "So you want to buy booze on Sunday? You don't think it hurts anyone? You think it's advantageous to you to buy alcohol any day of the week you want? Well that doesn't change the fact that it's against the law! That proves it's wrong! So there!"
Mind you, I'm not claiming here that copyright infringement is moral. I just don't think its illegality is a very relevant to its moral status.
Egad, Microsoft has assigned a permanent agent to slashdot, operating in the open even? I thought they liked their agents provocateurs to stay under cover.
The problem is that it is difficult to measure accurately just how much electricity was pumped into the electrode to begin with!!
Really? They should know exactly what voltage they are putting across it, why would it be at all hard to meausure the current? The power company does a fine job of measuring the amount of current they send into my appartment at relatively high voltage. And once they have the voltage and the current it should not be hard to multiply.
I can run XFree86 on Windows NT using the Interix Posix implementation.
You mean you can actually run one of the servers, or just that you can use the client libraries? Do the XFree86 client libraries differ from the stock X consortium ones in any significant way?
Re:They've been in their comptuers for a month now
on
John Carmack on Linux
·
· Score: 2
I couldn't find it in stores in Cambridge, so I emailed LokiSoft and they said there had been logistical problems shipping to the brick & mortar stores. Be patient...
On an E10K you can divide the 12 system boards into electrically isolated domains running individual copies of Solaris. Electrically isolated means that if you get a hardware failure that crashes one domain, the other ones stay up.
OK, maybe I'm stupid, but how is this better than running 12 completely separate machines?
"ijime-ko" and suicide in Japan
on
Why Kids Kill
·
· Score: 1
I lived for a year in Japan, and one of the saddest thing I saw was the semi-tolerated tradition of kids picking out one kid to torment because they acted different or looked different.
You had to go to Japan to see this behavior? It happens in America all the time.
> Both theories show that seemingly random systems > are not nearly as random as we had imagined.
Sure, but they don't show you how to extract simplicity from seeming randomness/chaos, they explain how you can start with something really simple and end up with really complex resulting behavior. Neither field implies that complicated things have visible simple patterns - only that there may be underlying simpe rules.
Anyway, the response rant seemed to totally miss the point of Stephenson's original. He wasn't saying that GUIs are evil and the command line totally rules everything. In fact, he said his current choice of operating system (BeOS) was determined at least in part by its GUI. His point (among many other semi-random things) was that the command line interface, at least a good powerful one (like Un*x, unlike DOS) provides a unique and valuable way of looking at computing that a GUI can't really provide.
As a heavy user of both command-line and GUI tools, I have to agree. It makes you think in algorithmic and linguistic terms instead of spatial terms.
For some people this isn't really a value - a GUI provides all they really want out of their computing experience. But I have also known people whose linguistic reasoning was much better than their spatial reasoning, and they had a much harder time dealing with a pure GUI interface than with one that provides a command line.
And, life as we know it would not exist in such a planetary systm, since no Earth sized planet could exist at the proper orbit with these large planets forcing their weight on their neighbors.
What if one of the bigger planets had an approximately earth-sized moon?
Do you seriously still believe that "someone to sue" line? Show me _any_ software license for an operating system that allows you to sue anyone. All of them explicitly disclaim all warranties. This myth has been dubunked so many times. I can't believe anyone is still repeating it.
Slashdot Mirror
SunOS 5 (the OS component of Solaris 2.x) certainly was built from the ground up with SMP support in mind. They knew they'd need it;
SunOS 4 had MP support before SunOS 5 was even thought of.
I think not. Some later versions of SunOS 4.x could _run_ on SMP hardware but none could actually make use of more than one CPU. Not counting Solbourne's hacked version, of course.
I don't know enough about Solaris history to say whether SunOS 5.x supported SMP from the first releast, but they started with AT&T code which
definitely wasn't designed with SMP in mind. And Sun had to do a _lot_ of deep hacking to get it to scale as well as it does.
Having read substantial portions of both the NetBSD and Linux networking code, I have to say that, even though it's much older, the BSD code is much better designed.
Hate to respond to flamebait in kind, but:
I've never seen a "kernel panic: out of mbufs"
on Linux.
Gee, thanks for letting us know which Un*x is
the choice people who quit using Un*x.
Actually, while Linux's init is SysV-like, most
of the user tools where the difference matters
(ps, df) are BSD-like. As far as API, you get
POSIX by default and can take your pick of
BSD or SysV extensions with appropriate compile flags.
Really, the only ways Linux is SysV like are either ones where SysV won the standards war, or
where it is obviously just better, e.g. init.
My main problem with *BSD personally is that you
still have to install most of the GNU tools by hand due to *BSD licensing/NIH/minimalism issues.
I prefer to have a reasonably featureful command
set out of the box.
"Besides, it's an INSTALLER. What do you need it for other than to install their distro from their CD's?"
Because I like to share my CDs with my friends.
I can do that with my Red Hat CD. Even though SuSE may have slightly more revenue, Red Hat probably has a lot more users.
The listener's (I don't know his name) comment was that Oracle (which doesn't give away their software,
The listener's (I don't know his name) comment was that Oracle (which doesn't give away their software,I wouldn't call them a "semi-open-source" company) makes some large percentage of their revenue from support. He then went on to point out that their revenue per employee was far less than Microsoft's. In other words, his point was that the business model Eric was proposing isn't as profitable a business model.
Perhaps a more fair comparison would be to compare the revenues/employee from companies that have similar product lines and market positions, but different support vs. product sales revenue breakdowns?
Oracle doesn't have cash cow desktop OS or productivity suite monopolies, you know.
Thereby proving the assertions that Linux has not a single original concept in it.
So? There's something to be said for implementing someone else's ideas well.
As for solid foundation, this isn't a house, you can redo a foundation.
It's a lot harder to rewrite basic code that underlies everything else than to change superficial things, though.
Linux is an incremental add of SMP onto an incremental add of modularity onto a monolithic kernel based on designs out of an ancient
book for an obsolete teaching OS.
As opposed to the NT "micro"kernel where the GUI runs in kernel mode and device drivers can pop up GUI message boxes or call into pretty much any user space code. Where you can't upgrade your system libraries without rebooting. Where you _have_ to upgrade your system libraries (and
therefore reboot) to install nearly any
interesting new piece of software.
Gee, that sounds like a _much_ better design.
A lot of these design issues can't even be fixed without severely breaking backward compatibility, either, and back compatibility is the number one reason the windows franchise goes on.
How much time does that take? You copy, paste the very detailed explanation of the BSoD, e-mail to MS and they send you new code within the day. It's really very simple....
You're joking, right?
Linux is 64-bit on 64-bit architectures such
as the Alpha or the UltraSPARC.
Probably. But I wonder how Linux will do relative to the BeOS and also the Mac version, and what fraction of the Windows sales it will hit. Most of the stores I tried in the area (Boston/Cambridge) were sold out within a day or two of getting the shipment.
I had to drive all the way to Marlboro (consult Mapquest for an indication of how far this is) to get a live copy.
Of course, stores probably ordered a lot fewer Linux copies than Windows copies, but this is still an interesting data point.
BTW, to the other poster who said he didn't think it was a fun game, I disagree... it's quite different than the other Civs but I think it is
still cool.
> Well, they're giving away Linux Civ:CTP, so at
> least the BeOS version will more money... 8)
Since when? It retails for the same price as the
Windows version (excluding stores using the
Windows version as a loss leader to get foot
traffic).
I wonder how many copies they will sell of Civ:CTP on Linux vs. BeOS.
Now my question is, does any of this change the fact that it is illegal? Nope. So are you telling me that it's okay to break the law because it is beneficial to me?
The fact that something is illegal does not prove it is immoral or harmful to others. For exampling, possessing certain common North American plants is highly illegal in the United States. In many states oral sex is still illegal. It is illegal to say the word "fuck" on the radio (but "bitch" is OK). In the state of Massachussets it is illegal to purchase alcohol on a Sunday, or for a consenting adult to get a tattoo (although body piercings are fine). I can already imagine someone saying "So you want to buy booze on Sunday? You don't think it hurts anyone? You think it's advantageous to you to buy alcohol any day of the week you want? Well that doesn't change the fact that it's against the law! That proves it's wrong! So there!"
Mind you, I'm not claiming here that copyright infringement is moral. I just don't think its illegality is a very relevant to its moral status.
Egad, Microsoft has assigned a permanent agent to slashdot, operating in the open even? I thought they liked their agents provocateurs to stay under cover.
The problem is that it is difficult to measure accurately just how much electricity was pumped into the electrode to begin with!!
Really? They should know exactly what voltage they are putting across it, why would it be at all hard to meausure the current? The power company does a fine job of measuring the amount of current they send into my appartment at relatively high voltage. And once they have the voltage and the current it should not be hard to multiply.
sistren
But brethren is nowadays generally excepted to be gender-neutral, now that it has lost it's literal usage as the ordinary plural of "brother".
I can run XFree86 on Windows NT using the Interix Posix implementation.
You mean you can actually run one of the servers, or just that you can use the client libraries? Do the XFree86 client libraries differ from the stock X consortium ones in any significant way?
I couldn't find it in stores in Cambridge, so I emailed LokiSoft and they said there had been logistical problems shipping to the brick & mortar stores. Be patient...
On an E10K you can divide the 12 system boards into electrically isolated domains running individual copies of Solaris. Electrically isolated means that if you get a hardware failure that crashes one domain, the other ones stay up.
OK, maybe I'm stupid, but how is this better than running 12 completely separate machines?
I lived for a year in Japan, and one of the saddest thing I saw was the semi-tolerated tradition of kids picking out one kid to torment because they acted different or looked different.
You had to go to Japan to see this behavior? It happens in America all the time.
> Both theories show that seemingly random systems
> are not nearly as random as we had imagined.
Sure, but they don't show you how to extract simplicity from seeming randomness/chaos, they explain how you can start with something really simple and end up with really complex resulting behavior. Neither field implies that complicated things have visible simple patterns - only that there may be underlying simpe rules.
Anyway, the response rant seemed to totally miss the point of Stephenson's original. He wasn't saying that GUIs are evil and the command line totally rules everything. In fact, he said his current choice of operating system (BeOS) was determined at least in part by its GUI. His point (among many other semi-random things) was that the command line interface, at least a good powerful one (like Un*x, unlike DOS) provides a unique and valuable way of looking at computing that a GUI can't really provide.
As a heavy user of both command-line and GUI tools, I have to agree. It makes you think in algorithmic and linguistic terms instead of spatial terms.
For some people this isn't really a value - a GUI provides all they really want out of their computing experience. But I have also known people whose linguistic reasoning was much better than their spatial reasoning, and they had a much harder time dealing with a pure GUI interface than with one that provides a command line.
The code would not necessarily be less efficient. However, a C++ compiler cannot successfully compile all valid C programs.
The original site had a request not to publicize it on slashdot, apparently because they feared that would get them shut down.
And, life as we know it would not exist in such a planetary systm, since no Earth sized planet could exist at the proper orbit with these large planets forcing their weight on their neighbors.
What if one of the bigger planets had an approximately earth-sized moon?
Work:
C, C++, Java, Perl, C Shell, Bourne Shell
Pleasure:
C, Scheme
Do you seriously still believe that "someone to sue" line? Show me _any_ software license for an operating system that allows you to sue anyone. All of them explicitly disclaim all warranties. This myth has been dubunked so many times. I can't
believe anyone is still repeating it.