The value only comes from those who pay for it. Some people find it more then a fair value, some less. Since you can't talk about "Value" from any objective stand point, time vs money is a very good measure.
And lets not forget, if you really like the game you are very likely to spend alot more then 4 hours a week playing the game, even if you are a "casual" gamer.
I am not currently playing any, so i have no clue nor can i find any real numbers. But it must be outthere somewhere. But they do have about 100 servers....kinda scary,hu?
i was talking about on at one time, not total user base.....i mean, WoW just busted 2 million registered users.....but again, numebr of users doesn't matter just how much oyu enjoy the game.....
And my trusty deck of card still work, why do I need anything else?
The issue i was tlaking to was NOT "Is there something cheaper?" it was "Is it a fair price?" Again, compared to many other form of entertainment it is a VERY fair price. Movies, sporting events, bars, whatever.
As for new content/patches. Yes, some tools do release thier game early, well before the system is solid but a good game company wont do that. As people how they feel about Blizzard, at least reguaring the qualty of their games. (Cause lord knows they suck for the whole bnet thing)
Also, as a slight defense of patching after the release, there is no way to really test how 50,000 people are going to abuse your servers with getting 50,000 to abuse your servers and game. For two MONTHS. Can't really have that as an open beta....or even a closed beta.....<shrug>
"This is also the person who doesn't have cable because it is not worth it"
Not worth it to you.
I pointed out that they cost a dollar an hour if you only play them an hour every other day. There are many things that we do that cost much more than a dollar an hour. compared to the many many ways we spend money, and how much it costs us, they are a reasonable price. Many people would say, "Why see a movie in the theater. I'll rent it form the library in 18 months. it is still the same movie."
The point is that looking at how we spend money, a dollar an hour is a very reasonable price. Comparing to how other disposable cash is spent, it is very fairly priced. Saying anything else is all about preference, which is meaningless.
I don't know if the numbers you listed were meant to be sardonic or not....i mean, even 2000 players would be a bit under-whelming, esp across 9 servers.......that just means your playing a good* game no one else is.....
inane copyright law is a different issue. When companies abuse their copyright in such a fashion, they suck.
But that isn't the issue. The issue is "What is a fair price to pay for a game a month?" you say zero. Ok. Many people feel that paying any money for any video game is a mistake when there are so many things you can do for free that are good you. Ride a bike, read a book (from your public library), learn to sew, rebuild a car. Do something with your life.
What I was saying is that for the price you pay, if you enjoy that activity, it is a good bargain. At a dollar an hour (or MUCH MUCH less if you play ALOT) gaming compares much better then ALOT of other things you can spend you money on that cost alot more.
The mistake is assuming that i was saying you SHOULD play. I was saything the cost is VERY reasonable even if you are a totally casual gamer.
Your agument is that there are cheaper games. Yes there are. I can buy a deck of cards (3 dollars) and a book of card games (9 dollars) and play longer, cheaper, and more different games then any one video game is ever going to give me. I can get thousands of hours worth of play time from the deck. If I find a game i really like (poker of bridge) i can spend the rest of my life learning the subtlies.
What i was arguing is that compared to MUCH other media, many MANY other ways people spend their money, the monthly fee is a decent purchase.
With a game demanding $15 a month, you can't afford to just casually log in a few hours on the weekend without feeling jipped.
Was is this taken as gospel, that cost is still an issue?? I hear people say that all the time, but even if you only play 3 hours a week, that means you are paying a little over a dollar an hour, where is the big deal? i used to go to arcades and spend ALOT more then a buck an hour.
Lord people whine.....in fact, let me now rant about people whining......
Personally, I think that the Mouse is one of the BEST thigs to talk about.
The current law says that Micky is part of a companies property. My great-grandmother could have gone to see Steamboat Willie before my grandfather was born. People all over the world identify the mouse with America, to the point of just the outline of his ears is enough to envoke a response.
If you think that a creator has rights forever more and that no content ever should enter the public domain, there is no better example. Mickey = Disney.
If you think that at some point a creatioin becomes part of a culture there is no better example.
The Mouse highlights what each person thinks is right. I find that it is also an excellent way to talk about copyright law in a way people can understand.
Why assume that children will be the first for a brain boost?
People are going to augment themselves first and fastest. Long before people are mucking around with their children's brains (or genes for that matter), people will be trying to uplift themselves. Kids are gonna be BEGGING to be upgraded. Ask yourself how many people don't want to be smarter.
As for worrying about it, why? Would you every say "I worry about Google but all the information of the world at my finger tips." The are many many dangerous things on the Internet, do you worry about them? There are many dangerous things in books, do you worry about them?
The above post has been mistakenly modded as 'funny' while the correct mod would be 'Sad but true'. Please keep this in mind while reading this and other posts like it.
Man, you have been typing like a demon...lots of responses but the question i haven't seen asked is how do we stop it from becoming too much of a problem??
My first thought is that the inertia of the public will slow things down. i know people who are still running win 98 (not even win 98se!) and I know of some small businesses environments are just getting off of win 95. So that at least will delay the problem a bit longer but doesn't solve it.
So, since you have obviously spent some time thinking about it, any specif thoughts to prevent it? Any hope anywhere? Thoughts?
Well, true but not very important. The point is which do reasonable people use windows for a server?
Just talked to a friend 2 weeks ago about the front-end for hotmail. A cluster of 200 windows machines is need to handle what a cluster of 15 bsd boxes can do.
And that is the best that MS can do for ITSELF. What can MS do for you today?
Sure, there are lots of useful apps on a windows server but that doesn't mean they are just as effective. Big plus for windows is that it is easy and it has more choice. Getting every last bit of power is NOT windows strong suit. How could an OS that wants to be all things to all people?
It is funny how a person's bias can show and they aren't aware of it.
As bad as the school system is in this country, schools and public libraries offer sufficient resources for any interested person to obtain an education. I was home schooled from K-12 grade, which meant that for the most part I taught myself
Home schooled? You mean you had an adult who didn't have to work but could stay home?
So many aspects of what "class" you live in change what sort of life you have. The sad fact is that social mobility has been dropping in the country for years and it doesn't look like that trend is going to end. You think that is based solely on the wisdom of the people involved? So the wise choice is to be born to wealthy parents?
Well, I suppose you could say that it was a human thing and not a U.S. thing but frankly many of the best shows from England (and a couple from The Great White North) have only 4,6, 8 or 13 episodes at most per season for 8 seasons or more.
<i>It's a problem that we (The Human Race) don't want good things to end?</i>
Trying to force things to not end IS a huge problem, in any context. Everything must end. Better to end when things are complete then trying to preserve things past their natural end. To every season,turn.
5 years and over 70 shows is not a short run by any stretch. I think the biggest problem that we (the U.S.) have is that we don't want our good shows to go away. All shows must end, better a little early then alot late.
1) No, not abuse but culture./. culture is not overly friendly to religion. So for the/. culture, it IS the right use of mod points. Basically. Maybe not tolerant but not misuse.
2) It can be really hard to determine weither or not you were a troll from just one comment. Again, because of #1 your post ends up being more trollish. I don't head to a Muslim website and say "I think Allah has no merit." Even if I mean it in a "nice" way, it is gonna be a troll to maybe people of that faith.
3).........Um, even setting aside that the very notion of ANYTHING like a soul is a religious discussion and hence a discussion about faith BY DEFAULT -- there are SO MANY religions that say that animals have souls as well that making a distinction is a mistake. Those religions say that trying to separate ourselves from the animals that surround us is a mistake.... Where as the original poster was just mainly being pedantic.
So, as others have said context can be part of the reason people use the terms the way they do. In this case it is clear they are talking about trials on animals other then humans first.
However, I TOTALLY agree with your point. I think far to often people want to be "better than" animals, people (often christians) beleive that man is very special, head and shoulders above the "lowly animals". It is all about ego.
I didn't do the mod'ing...obviously because i am posting....but allow me to respond with why it maybe have been modded the way it was....
1) It was a very religious comment./. isn't big on religion. 2) It was a very religious comment. Many trolls will use over the top religion as a way to troll. 3) It was a very religious comment stated as simple fact. It isn't, it is a matter of faith
Those are at least the 3 reasons that jump out at me, there maybe others....
you are so right. Typos/spelling errors are so meaningful....in a comment that took me 10 seconds to write......and changes nothing. Someone who can't spell but realizes that evolution works is going to be alot better off then someone who thinks the bible tells exactly how their God made people.
weird side note: I have a compulsion to type their as thier.....I know how it is spell, but my fingers don't care....I re-typed it wrong like 3 times in this message...sigh...
You are totally right: B&W didnt have a GAME. But neither does the sims. People Love the sims and yet B&W died a painful death. I think that is because the Sims doesn't try and be a game where as B&W did and failed.
What is REALLY weird is that B&W flaws didn't show up when you first played it. For the first 20 hours or so your learning the interface, how to get things done, ect....and then realize there is nothing more. The game never comes.
Spore could TOTALLY be the same way OR it could be a fantastic, break out game. There is no way to tell for "revolutionary games" until it is out. Imagine someone describes tetris to you - how boring and repetitive. Yet likely one of the best video games ever, simple because everyone knows it and has played it.
I also tend to think that the game will either make or brake itself on the final stage, since that is where the real interactive aspect kicks in, if i understood the GDC info correctly.
You are without question right. If they want thier children to growup clueless and unpreparded for college, that's thier choice.
And it is OUR chioce to mock them relentlessly for being such asshats. As for the post,it obviously ISN'T a troll because lots of people here find it funny to mock them. (hint: it's because they are dumb)
Yes,but if you buy the $300 lifetime service and something goes wrong, that $300 is just gone. I suppose if you pay monthly at first or...or...
Again, i love my Tivo but for the price of a new tivo + lifetime service I personally can build a computer that is far more upgradeable, a system that can grow as I want it, that I can add what i want to it, that can do far more then a tivo and that I can repair much easier than a Tivo.
For me, as a geek, the Tivo is almost certainly NOT the best option IF i want to spend the time to set it up. Since my time is almost worthless, this is likely what i will do. For almost anyone else, a tivo is a better option. Like everything else, different strokes for different folks.
Slashdot Mirror
The value only comes from those who pay for it. Some people find it more then a fair value, some less. Since you can't talk about "Value" from any objective stand point, time vs money is a very good measure.
And lets not forget, if you really like the game you are very likely to spend alot more then 4 hours a week playing the game, even if you are a "casual" gamer.
I am not currently playing any, so i have no clue nor can i find any real numbers. But it must be outthere somewhere. But they do have about 100 servers....kinda scary,hu?
i was talking about on at one time, not total user base.....i mean, WoW just busted 2 million registered users.....but again, numebr of users doesn't matter just how much oyu enjoy the game.....
And my trusty deck of card still work, why do I need anything else?
The issue i was tlaking to was NOT "Is there something cheaper?" it was "Is it a fair price?" Again, compared to many other form of entertainment it is a VERY fair price. Movies, sporting events, bars, whatever.
As for new content/patches. Yes, some tools do release thier game early, well before the system is solid but a good game company wont do that. As people how they feel about Blizzard, at least reguaring the qualty of their games. (Cause lord knows they suck for the whole bnet thing)
Also, as a slight defense of patching after the release, there is no way to really test how 50,000 people are going to abuse your servers with getting 50,000 to abuse your servers and game. For two MONTHS. Can't really have that as an open beta....or even a closed beta.....<shrug>
"This is also the person who doesn't have cable because it is not worth it"
Not worth it to you.
I pointed out that they cost a dollar an hour if you only play them an hour every other day. There are many things that we do that cost much more than a dollar an hour. compared to the many many ways we spend money, and how much it costs us, they are a reasonable price. Many people would say, "Why see a movie in the theater. I'll rent it form the library in 18 months. it is still the same movie."
The point is that looking at how we spend money, a dollar an hour is a very reasonable price. Comparing to how other disposable cash is spent, it is very fairly priced. Saying anything else is all about preference, which is meaningless.
I don't know if the numbers you listed were meant to be sardonic or not....i mean, even 2000 players would be a bit under-whelming, esp across 9 servers.......that just means your playing a good* game no one else is.....
*good = any game you enjoy.
inane copyright law is a different issue. When companies abuse their copyright in such a fashion, they suck.
But that isn't the issue. The issue is "What is a fair price to pay for a game a month?" you say zero. Ok. Many people feel that paying any money for any video game is a mistake when there are so many things you can do for free that are good you. Ride a bike, read a book (from your public library), learn to sew, rebuild a car. Do something with your life.
What I was saying is that for the price you pay, if you enjoy that activity, it is a good bargain. At a dollar an hour (or MUCH MUCH less if you play ALOT) gaming compares much better then ALOT of other things you can spend you money on that cost alot more.
The mistake is assuming that i was saying you SHOULD play. I was saything the cost is VERY reasonable even if you are a totally casual gamer.
Your agument is that there are cheaper games. Yes there are. I can buy a deck of cards (3 dollars) and a book of card games (9 dollars) and play longer, cheaper, and more different games then any one video game is ever going to give me. I can get thousands of hours worth of play time from the deck. If I find a game i really like (poker of bridge) i can spend the rest of my life learning the subtlies.
What i was arguing is that compared to MUCH other media, many MANY other ways people spend their money, the monthly fee is a decent purchase.
With a game demanding $15 a month, you can't afford to just casually log in a few hours on the weekend without feeling jipped.
Was is this taken as gospel, that cost is still an issue?? I hear people say that all the time, but even if you only play 3 hours a week, that means you are paying a little over a dollar an hour, where is the big deal? i used to go to arcades and spend ALOT more then a buck an hour.
Lord people whine.....in fact, let me now rant about people whining......
Personally, I think that the Mouse is one of the BEST thigs to talk about.
The current law says that Micky is part of a companies property. My great-grandmother could have gone to see Steamboat Willie before my grandfather was born. People all over the world identify the mouse with America, to the point of just the outline of his ears is enough to envoke a response.
If you think that a creator has rights forever more and that no content ever should enter the public domain, there is no better example. Mickey = Disney.
If you think that at some point a creatioin becomes part of a culture there is no better example.
The Mouse highlights what each person thinks is right. I find that it is also an excellent way to talk about copyright law in a way people can understand.
Why assume that children will be the first for a brain boost?
People are going to augment themselves first and fastest. Long before people are mucking around with their children's brains (or genes for that matter), people will be trying to uplift themselves. Kids are gonna be BEGGING to be upgraded. Ask yourself how many people don't want to be smarter.
As for worrying about it, why? Would you every say "I worry about Google but all the information of the world at my finger tips." The are many many dangerous things on the Internet, do you worry about them? There are many dangerous things in books, do you worry about them?
Dear Readers:
The above post has been mistakenly modded as 'funny' while the correct mod would be 'Sad but true'. Please keep this in mind while reading this and other posts like it.
Thank You.
Man, you have been typing like a demon...lots of responses but the question i haven't seen asked is how do we stop it from becoming too much of a problem??
My first thought is that the inertia of the public will slow things down. i know people who are still running win 98 (not even win 98se!) and I know of some small businesses environments are just getting off of win 95. So that at least will delay the problem a bit longer but doesn't solve it.
So, since you have obviously spent some time thinking about it, any specif thoughts to prevent it? Any hope anywhere? Thoughts?
Well, true but not very important. The point is which do reasonable people use windows for a server?
Just talked to a friend 2 weeks ago about the front-end for hotmail. A cluster of 200 windows machines is need to handle what a cluster of 15 bsd boxes can do.
And that is the best that MS can do for ITSELF. What can MS do for you today?
Sure, there are lots of useful apps on a windows server but that doesn't mean they are just as effective. Big plus for windows is that it is easy and it has more choice. Getting every last bit of power is NOT windows strong suit. How could an OS that wants to be all things to all people?
It is funny how a person's bias can show and they aren't aware of it.
As bad as the school system is in this country, schools and public libraries offer sufficient resources for any interested person to obtain an education. I was home schooled from K-12 grade, which meant that for the most part I taught myself
Home schooled? You mean you had an adult who didn't have to work but could stay home?
So many aspects of what "class" you live in change what sort of life you have. The sad fact is that social mobility has been dropping in the country for years and it doesn't look like that trend is going to end. You think that is based solely on the wisdom of the people involved? So the wise choice is to be born to wealthy parents?
Well, I suppose you could say that it was a human thing and not a U.S. thing but frankly many of the best shows from England (and a couple from The Great White North) have only 4,6, 8 or 13 episodes at most per season for 8 seasons or more.
<i>It's a problem that we (The Human Race) don't want good things to end?</i>
Trying to force things to not end IS a huge problem, in any context. Everything must end. Better to end when things are complete then trying to preserve things past their natural end. To every season,turn.
5 years and over 70 shows is not a short run by any stretch. I think the biggest problem that we (the U.S.) have is that we don't want our good shows to go away. All shows must end, better a little early then alot late.
1) No, not abuse but culture. /. culture is not overly friendly to religion. So for the /. culture, it IS the right use of mod points. Basically. Maybe not tolerant but not misuse.
.........Um, even setting aside that the very notion of ANYTHING like a soul is a religious discussion and hence a discussion about faith BY DEFAULT -- there are SO MANY religions that say that animals have souls as well that making a distinction is a mistake. Those religions say that trying to separate ourselves from the animals that surround us is a mistake.... Where as the original poster was just mainly being pedantic.
2) It can be really hard to determine weither or not you were a troll from just one comment. Again, because of #1 your post ends up being more trollish. I don't head to a Muslim website and say "I think Allah has no merit." Even if I mean it in a "nice" way, it is gonna be a troll to maybe people of that faith.
3)
So, as others have said context can be part of the reason people use the terms the way they do. In this case it is clear they are talking about trials on animals other then humans first.
However, I TOTALLY agree with your point. I think far to often people want to be "better than" animals, people (often christians) beleive that man is very special, head and shoulders above the "lowly animals". It is all about ego.
I didn't do the mod'ing...obviously because i am posting....but allow me to respond with why it maybe have been modded the way it was....
/. isn't big on religion.
1) It was a very religious comment.
2) It was a very religious comment. Many trolls will use over the top religion as a way to troll.
3) It was a very religious comment stated as simple fact. It isn't, it is a matter of faith
Those are at least the 3 reasons that jump out at me, there maybe others....
you are so right. Typos/spelling errors are so meaningful....in a comment that took me 10 seconds to write......and changes nothing. Someone who can't spell but realizes that evolution works is going to be alot better off then someone who thinks the bible tells exactly how their God made people.
weird side note: I have a compulsion to type their as thier.....I know how it is spell, but my fingers don't care....I re-typed it wrong like 3 times in this message...sigh...
You are likely right but it is such a nice though, can't we pretned for just a little bit??.... .....hmmmm, open consoles.....
You are totally right: B&W didnt have a GAME. But neither does the sims. People Love the sims and yet B&W died a painful death. I think that is because the Sims doesn't try and be a game where as B&W did and failed.
What is REALLY weird is that B&W flaws didn't show up when you first played it. For the first 20 hours or so your learning the interface, how to get things done, ect....and then realize there is nothing more. The game never comes.
Spore could TOTALLY be the same way OR it could be a fantastic, break out game. There is no way to tell for "revolutionary games" until it is out. Imagine someone describes tetris to you - how boring and repetitive. Yet likely one of the best video games ever, simple because everyone knows it and has played it.
I also tend to think that the game will either make or brake itself on the final stage, since that is where the real interactive aspect kicks in, if i understood the GDC info correctly.
You are without question right. If they want thier children to growup clueless and unpreparded for college, that's thier choice.
And it is OUR chioce to mock them relentlessly for being such asshats. As for the post,it obviously ISN'T a troll because lots of people here find it funny to mock them. (hint: it's because they are dumb)
Yes,but if you buy the $300 lifetime service and something goes wrong, that $300 is just gone. I suppose if you pay monthly at first or...or...
Again, i love my Tivo but for the price of a new tivo + lifetime service I personally can build a computer that is far more upgradeable, a system that can grow as I want it, that I can add what i want to it, that can do far more then a tivo and that I can repair much easier than a Tivo.
For me, as a geek, the Tivo is almost certainly NOT the best option IF i want to spend the time to set it up. Since my time is almost worthless, this is likely what i will do. For almost anyone else, a tivo is a better option. Like everything else, different strokes for different folks.