When I'm in D.C. I think in terms of the red/blue/green metro lines, but once I'm back in my car I think in terms of north, south, east, west, and beltway (to be avoided).
That might explain the comment in the article - "My mental map of DC swapped north for west." Perhaps the device isn't showing true north, but a slightly-skewed northwest. I've had similar arguments with my coworkers in this region:
"I-95 runs west and east." "No it doesn't! It's either north or south." "Uh yes overall, but through Baltimore it runs a west-east route. The highway lies south of Baltimore's downtown." "You're nuts." "Gee thanks."
>>>a fourteen year old is unable to make an uncoerced decision to have sex
Why not? Lots of 14-year-olds have sex with their boyfriends or girlfriends every day. That's why teen pregnancy is so high (which provides proof they were adult individuals - children are sterile and can't get pregnant). I went to college with a 14 year old, and believe me, he was no dummy. He was fully capable of making adult decisions and handling the adult courseload.
You see numbers are arbitrary. We pick 16 or 18 or 21 or 25 (congress) or 35 (president) for the same reason we say 70% is a C, 80% is a B, and 90% is an A. It just makes life convenient to assign categories, but the choices are still arbitrary.
Beats me how it's an "example" but if you think I'm going to let some guy drive-off with a year's worth of my earnings, forget it. Besides it's a matter of self-defense: If I didn't act he'd have killed me (although I suppose I could have run away). You can read more about this story here - http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bal-md.samurai16sep16,0,114199.story
I'd probably switch to MacOS. Even though the ~$50 per year upgrades from 10.4 to 10.5 to 10.6 is annoying and expensive, the Macintosh OS is a heck of a lot easier to use than Linux. Also it's easier to find programs. For example my Netscape ISP's Web Accelerator works with the Mac, but not with Linux.
But for now I'll just stick with the cheap Windows system. (I haven't spent a dime since I got XP in 2002.)
>>>Fox wrt Obama's health care plan: unashamedly ignorant propaganda, ridiculous talking points, and Godwin galore
And the other news organizations act as if Obamacare has no flaws. Why are ABC, CBS, MSNBC silent? Clearly it does have flaws, like the idea I'm going to be fined $1500 if I don't buy health insurance. (scours Constitution). I can not find the clause that grants Congress the power to fine citizens for not buying a product. What's next? I'll be fined because I bought a normal Civic instead of a Civic Hybrid? Fined because I bought a water heater instead of a tankless heater? This precedent can not be allowed to be established.
Other flaws include the idea that an Uncle Sam monopoly will be better. Monopolies are almost-never a good idea.
And yes Godwin is correct that the Nazi argument is overused, but he's also wrong to think history should be ignored. Hitler, Mussolini, Napoleon, Nero, Julius Caesar... we have a long history of men using governments to steal-away liberty. It's only a matter of time until the United States gets a similar tyrant - some argue we already had one (Nixon or Lincoln). I don't agree with that but I do think the time will come eventually. Better to guard against that possibility Now rather than wait until it's too late.
Actually Congress has often resurrected old laws that were declared unconstitutional. For example the Supreme Court declared it unconstitutional for Congress to order the States to lay claim to spent nuclear fuel (per amendment 10). So Congress simply revived the law but used bribery instead: "Take the nuclear fuel, or else you'll only get 90% of your highway funds." So the States take the spend fuel.
Another example is the Betamax case where the Supreme Court legalized the right to record television and make backups of purchased videos, but Congress passed the DMCA which makes it illegal. Congress doesn't ignore the SCOTUS, but they don't listen either. They just re-pass the same legislation minus the loopholes.
"You just lost your RIAA case and owe 1 million dollars. When do you plan to pay that fine?" "One day before the copyrights expire on these songs." "So basically never." "Correct."
Actually a 1 million dollar fine is ridiculous, especially if they keep adding interest to the total. I could work the rest of my life and never get it paid off. How can sentencing a citizen to a lifetime of servitude to RIAA be called justice? It isn't. Last time I checked involuntary servitude is banned by the Constitution.
President Sarkozy - "Yes what do you want?" Aide - "It's come to our attention that people are unhappy with you. We advise turning-off their internet access to silence them." Sarkozy-"We can do that?" Aide - "We can now." Sarkozy-"Alright but only target the key offenders. We don't want another storming of the bastille, do we? But if we only target a hundred of so key leaders, then nobody will care."
The line between [governments] and the mafia is a grey one. Do we really think that if a [government] could get away with this, that they wouldn't do it? Of course they would. In fact the U.S. government is the worst polluter in North America, simply because they absolve themselves from having to follow the laws. And since anyone who dares complain can be easily ignored as non-important, the government doesn't care. It holds a monopoly both on the market and on individuals' wallets.
Speaking of excuse and justification - This sounds like a good opportunity for the European Union to annex the countries on the northern edge of Africa, claim the Mediterranean Sea as an European inland sea, and bring an end to piracy with strong policing (as the Romans did 2000 years ago). We will, at last, know peace in our time. The Pax Europa.
>>>when you're likely to act in your own self interest rather than the greater social good.
Like when I find someone in my garage, trying to steal my car, and I slice them with my samurai sword in order to protect myself from harm. To me that thief has forfeited his right to freedom the moment he tried to steal ~1 year worth of my life (the value of the car), and he's forfeited his right to life the moment he tried to attack me. And no I wouldn't feel any guilt. In 50 years he would have been dead anyway, and today's as a good a day as any to be his Last day.
Yes well I'm an environmentalist, and I want to do my part to reduce energy usage, so I initially blamed myself rather than the CFL.
Plus I've moved into a house which means I'm encountering problems I never had in my small apartment (i.e. I had no porchlight, and no upside-down fixtures). But now I've come to realize these problems are a flaw with the basic design of the CFL. It has to be able to withstand a temperature range of -50 upto 200 degrees, and most of them are not up to the task.
>>>1990 called.. it wants its CFLs back. Have you *really* actually used them or are you just making stuff up?
(sings) - Trolling trolling along the bountiful Main. Why do you ask questions when you already know the answer? YES I'm using CFLs right now - I said that in my original post. The ones I have now I just purchased these past few months and were made by Philips, but they still have all the flaws I listed in my original post. 3 of them have died due to heat being trapped in my upside-down kitchen and bathroom lights, which killed the electronics in the base of the bulb.
>>>CFLs are now the same price (and in some cases cheaper) than incandescents
Wow. Not only a troll but also an idiot! How efficient of you. The CFLs I bought cost about $3 per bulb... meanwhile I bought some incandescents for 25 cents at my local grocery store. Not only is CFL not cheaper, it's a full order-of-magnitude more expensive.
CFLs are notorious for interfering with *any* wireless communication. When I turn-on my kitchen CFLs my digital television starts to stutter. The FM radio seems okay but the AM radio devolves into a loud buzzing. When I turn-off the CFLs, the problem goes away.
CFLs are electronic devices, but because manufacturers are trying to make them cheaply in order to compete with the simplistic 25 cent incandescents, they cut corners. The power factor is poor and the noise level is high. Also the components are often below spec, and not rated for the 120 volt 15 amp lines they are attached to. I wouldn't be surprised if EU countries start getting lots of reports of house fires or smoke inhalation victims from these cheaply-made, non-regulated CFLs.
They are the lightbulb equivalent of eMachine PCs, but much much lower quality.
Ya know what pisses me off? People who dismiss your complaints as if they are meaningless. I've thrown-away at least a hundred dollars on shitty CFL products, and what kind of response do I get? "Your observations are wrong."
What? Did I just turn stupid? Who the hell are these people to tell me that I'm too stupid to understand what I have observed with my own eyes? Frakkers. That reminds me of when I complained to magazines.com that "I did not receive my ordered magazines," and the seller told me I'm not getting a refund because it's not his fault. What??? What?!?!? I quickly disavowed them of that notion when not only did I reverse the charge on the missing magazines, but also the whole damn order (~$60).
I know what I know, and don't you dare tell me that I'm too stupid to know if I did not receive my magazine and/or wasted ~$100 on CFLs that died prematurely.
>>>he power company puts PF correction in far sooner than the power plant,
It doesn't matter. The point is that a 15 watt CFL is actually using 30 volt-amps, so it's only saving half as much energy as a 60 volt-amp traditional bulb (and no energy savings versus GE's new advanced technology incandescents).
>>>In 6 years the only CFL to die on me was from being dropped.
I've had 6 bulbs die in just this past year. Three of them were cheap Lights of America bulbs, but the other 3 were Philips which is a reputable company. They died because of being used in upside-down kitchen fixtures. I opened the bulbs, and found that the electronics had been cooked (caps bulged and the internal electrolyte oozed out).
>>>If the stairs are too dim, put in a brighter bulb
Well I had a 40 watt bulb there. In order to get a bulb that equals that same brightness after initial turnon, I'd have to get a 120-watt-equivalent. So in terms of power we're talking about 40 volt-amps versus 60 volts-amps. Where's the energy savings?
You see:
This is why I don't like talking to eitehr Religious people or Envionmentalists. It's impossible to reason with them, because they are too busy hugging trees to bother to exercise the rational part of their brains. CFLS ARE FLAWED, AND I AM SICK AND TIRED OF WASTING MY MONEY ON THEM JUST TO WATCH THEM DIE EARLY. For you to sit there and act as if my genuine observatuions are sjust a bunch of bulsl;htio si an INSULT tom me. I'm a triple-degreed electrical engineer. Not an idiot. My observations have merit, and your casual dismissal of them is not in any way acceptable.
I have wasted so much money on CFLs it's ridiculous. Instead of helping the environment, I'm filling it with dead bulbs that stopped working prematurely.
I have Philips bulbs. They do switch=on immediately, but they are NOT full brightness. The worst is the 60-watt-equivalent bulbs which are only at half brightness and take 5 minutes until they finally reach full.
Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid. There are many applications (like upside-down or enclosed fixtures) where nothing but an incandescent bulb will work, because the heat would kill a CFL's electronics. Our stupid employees in Congress need to be awakened to the reality - they either do what we tell them to do, or they'll get fired (permanently). Forcing us to abandon working bulbs for non-working bulbs is unacceptable.
JESUS on a popsicle stick! (Yes I watch lots of Penn&Teller).
We're only talking about ~30 watts difference per incandescent replaced by CFL. The central air conditioner or heater is somewhere around 10,000 watts. The bulb difference is just "noise" compared to how much the central unit uses.
Me too. I've been using CFL's for almost twenty years, and I've come to the conclusion that they are a worse idea that using Edison's incandescent lighting. Here's why:
- CFLs have a power factor of around 0.5, which means they use twice as much power as rated. For example a 15 watt CFL uses 15 watts in your home, but then it uses another 15 watts at the central power plant due to the need to "rebalance" the power and restore the PF to 1.0. TOTAL == 30 volt-amps burned
- New technologies have allowed folks like GE to build 60 watt incandescants that only use 30 watts while still providing the same brightness. So the net usage is the same as the CFL. No need to abandon the old bulbs.
- CFLs *hate* heat. CFLs hate cold. CFLs hate humidity. CFLs hate dimmers. In practical terms this means CFLs can not be used in 80-90% of present fixtures. I used them in my upside-down ktichen lights - they died 2 months later. I used them outside in my porch light - it worked fine until the temperature dropped below zero, and then refused to light. I used them in my bathroom, and after a shower the humidity killed half of them. I bought a so-called "dimmable CFL" which died 5 minutes after I installed it in my living room dimmer switch. Instead of saving money, I'm wasting it on tons of dead CFLs.
- CFLs hate being turned on and off. Rapid cycling makes them die as quick as an incandescent bulb. So you've spent 5 times as much for a bulb than doesn't last any longer.
- CFLs have a warm-up time. Turn it on to read your paper, and you have to wait 5 minutes before you can see the writing. Turn it on to go down the basement stairs - and you can't see the steps because it's still too dim (a safety hazard).
I have about 20 CFLs in my home. But I'm gradually phasing them out and replacing them with 25 or 40 watt incandescents.
I tried to do my part to be green over the last two decades, but it's just not working. The CFLs are not the solution to reduced lighting expenses. Perhaps these new half-power incandescents from GE will provide an answer, or the new LED lights, but CFLs are not it.
Slashdot Mirror
I do both.
When I'm in D.C. I think in terms of the red/blue/green metro lines, but once I'm back in my car I think in terms of north, south, east, west, and beltway (to be avoided).
That might explain the comment in the article - "My mental map of DC swapped north for west." Perhaps the device isn't showing true north, but a slightly-skewed northwest. I've had similar arguments with my coworkers in this region:
"I-95 runs west and east."
"No it doesn't! It's either north or south."
"Uh yes overall, but through Baltimore it runs a west-east route. The highway lies south of Baltimore's downtown."
"You're nuts."
"Gee thanks."
>>>a fourteen year old is unable to make an uncoerced decision to have sex
Why not? Lots of 14-year-olds have sex with their boyfriends or girlfriends every day. That's why teen pregnancy is so high (which provides proof they were adult individuals - children are sterile and can't get pregnant). I went to college with a 14 year old, and believe me, he was no dummy. He was fully capable of making adult decisions and handling the adult courseload.
You see numbers are arbitrary. We pick 16 or 18 or 21 or 25 (congress) or 35 (president) for the same reason we say 70% is a C, 80% is a B, and 90% is an A. It just makes life convenient to assign categories, but the choices are still arbitrary.
This person was not charged with a crime - http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bal-md.samurai16sep16,0,114199.story
Neither was this guy - http://www.bnd.com/breaking_news/story/899072.html
Or these - http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=d7x&q=home+owner+shoots+intruder&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
Beats me how it's an "example" but if you think I'm going to let some guy drive-off with a year's worth of my earnings, forget it. Besides it's a matter of self-defense: If I didn't act he'd have killed me (although I suppose I could have run away). You can read more about this story here - http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bal-md.samurai16sep16,0,114199.story
I'd probably switch to MacOS. Even though the ~$50 per year upgrades from 10.4 to 10.5 to 10.6 is annoying and expensive, the Macintosh OS is a heck of a lot easier to use than Linux. Also it's easier to find programs. For example my Netscape ISP's Web Accelerator works with the Mac, but not with Linux.
But for now I'll just stick with the cheap Windows system. (I haven't spent a dime since I got XP in 2002.)
>>>Fox wrt Obama's health care plan: unashamedly ignorant propaganda, ridiculous talking points, and Godwin galore
And the other news organizations act as if Obamacare has no flaws. Why are ABC, CBS, MSNBC silent? Clearly it does have flaws, like the idea I'm going to be fined $1500 if I don't buy health insurance. (scours Constitution). I can not find the clause that grants Congress the power to fine citizens for not buying a product. What's next? I'll be fined because I bought a normal Civic instead of a Civic Hybrid? Fined because I bought a water heater instead of a tankless heater? This precedent can not be allowed to be established.
Other flaws include the idea that an Uncle Sam monopoly will be better. Monopolies are almost-never a good idea.
And yes Godwin is correct that the Nazi argument is overused, but he's also wrong to think history should be ignored. Hitler, Mussolini, Napoleon, Nero, Julius Caesar... we have a long history of men using governments to steal-away liberty. It's only a matter of time until the United States gets a similar tyrant - some argue we already had one (Nixon or Lincoln). I don't agree with that but I do think the time will come eventually. Better to guard against that possibility Now rather than wait until it's too late.
Actually Congress has often resurrected old laws that were declared unconstitutional. For example the Supreme Court declared it unconstitutional for Congress to order the States to lay claim to spent nuclear fuel (per amendment 10). So Congress simply revived the law but used bribery instead: "Take the nuclear fuel, or else you'll only get 90% of your highway funds." So the States take the spend fuel.
Another example is the Betamax case where the Supreme Court legalized the right to record television and make backups of purchased videos, but Congress passed the DMCA which makes it illegal. Congress doesn't ignore the SCOTUS, but they don't listen either. They just re-pass the same legislation minus the loopholes.
Actually that's a pretty good answer.
"You just lost your RIAA case and owe 1 million dollars. When do you plan to pay that fine?"
"One day before the copyrights expire on these songs."
"So basically never."
"Correct."
Actually a 1 million dollar fine is ridiculous, especially if they keep adding interest to the total. I could work the rest of my life and never get it paid off. How can sentencing a citizen to a lifetime of servitude to RIAA be called justice? It isn't. Last time I checked involuntary servitude is banned by the Constitution.
President Sarkozy - "Yes what do you want?"
Aide - "It's come to our attention that people are unhappy with you. We advise turning-off their internet access to silence them."
Sarkozy-"We can do that?"
Aide - "We can now."
Sarkozy-"Alright but only target the key offenders. We don't want another storming of the bastille, do we? But if we only target a hundred of so key leaders, then nobody will care."
The line between [governments] and the mafia is a grey one. Do we really think that if a [government] could get away with this, that they wouldn't do it? Of course they would. In fact the U.S. government is the worst polluter in North America, simply because they absolve themselves from having to follow the laws. And since anyone who dares complain can be easily ignored as non-important, the government doesn't care. It holds a monopoly both on the market and on individuals' wallets.
Speaking of excuse and justification - This sounds like a good opportunity for the European Union to annex the countries on the northern edge of Africa, claim the Mediterranean Sea as an European inland sea, and bring an end to piracy with strong policing (as the Romans did 2000 years ago). We will, at last, know peace in our time. The Pax Europa.
Oh wait.
I forgot.
This is the EU not the U.S.
>>>when you're likely to act in your own self interest rather than the greater social good.
Like when I find someone in my garage, trying to steal my car, and I slice them with my samurai sword in order to protect myself from harm. To me that thief has forfeited his right to freedom the moment he tried to steal ~1 year worth of my life (the value of the car), and he's forfeited his right to life the moment he tried to attack me. And no I wouldn't feel any guilt. In 50 years he would have been dead anyway, and today's as a good a day as any to be his Last day.
My central heat pump/air conditioner is rated 9500 watts. Yours probably uses at least 5000... maybe more.
Ooops.
Yes well I'm an environmentalist, and I want to do my part to reduce energy usage, so I initially blamed myself rather than the CFL.
Plus I've moved into a house which means I'm encountering problems I never had in my small apartment (i.e. I had no porchlight, and no upside-down fixtures). But now I've come to realize these problems are a flaw with the basic design of the CFL. It has to be able to withstand a temperature range of -50 upto 200 degrees, and most of them are not up to the task.
>>>1990 called.. it wants its CFLs back. Have you *really* actually used them or are you just making stuff up?
(sings) - Trolling trolling along the bountiful Main. Why do you ask questions when you already know the answer? YES I'm using CFLs right now - I said that in my original post. The ones I have now I just purchased these past few months and were made by Philips, but they still have all the flaws I listed in my original post. 3 of them have died due to heat being trapped in my upside-down kitchen and bathroom lights, which killed the electronics in the base of the bulb.
>>>CFLs are now the same price (and in some cases cheaper) than incandescents
Wow. Not only a troll but also an idiot! How efficient of you. The CFLs I bought cost about $3 per bulb... meanwhile I bought some incandescents for 25 cents at my local grocery store. Not only is CFL not cheaper, it's a full order-of-magnitude more expensive.
CFLs are notorious for interfering with *any* wireless communication. When I turn-on my kitchen CFLs my digital television starts to stutter. The FM radio seems okay but the AM radio devolves into a loud buzzing. When I turn-off the CFLs, the problem goes away.
CFLs are electronic devices, but because manufacturers are trying to make them cheaply in order to compete with the simplistic 25 cent incandescents, they cut corners. The power factor is poor and the noise level is high. Also the components are often below spec, and not rated for the 120 volt 15 amp lines they are attached to. I wouldn't be surprised if EU countries start getting lots of reports of house fires or smoke inhalation victims from these cheaply-made, non-regulated CFLs.
They are the lightbulb equivalent of eMachine PCs, but much much lower quality.
P.S.
Ya know what pisses me off? People who dismiss your complaints as if they are meaningless. I've thrown-away at least a hundred dollars on shitty CFL products, and what kind of response do I get? "Your observations are wrong."
What? Did I just turn stupid? Who the hell are these people to tell me that I'm too stupid to understand what I have observed with my own eyes? Frakkers. That reminds me of when I complained to magazines.com that "I did not receive my ordered magazines," and the seller told me I'm not getting a refund because it's not his fault. What??? What?!?!? I quickly disavowed them of that notion when not only did I reverse the charge on the missing magazines, but also the whole damn order (~$60).
I know what I know, and don't you dare tell me that I'm too stupid to know if I did not receive my magazine and/or wasted ~$100 on CFLs that died prematurely.
>>>he power company puts PF correction in far sooner than the power plant,
It doesn't matter. The point is that a 15 watt CFL is actually using 30 volt-amps, so it's only saving half as much energy as a 60 volt-amp traditional bulb (and no energy savings versus GE's new advanced technology incandescents).
>>>In 6 years the only CFL to die on me was from being dropped.
I've had 6 bulbs die in just this past year. Three of them were cheap Lights of America bulbs, but the other 3 were Philips which is a reputable company. They died because of being used in upside-down kitchen fixtures. I opened the bulbs, and found that the electronics had been cooked (caps bulged and the internal electrolyte oozed out).
>>>If the stairs are too dim, put in a brighter bulb
Well I had a 40 watt bulb there. In order to get a bulb that equals that same brightness after initial turnon, I'd have to get a 120-watt-equivalent. So in terms of power we're talking about 40 volt-amps versus 60 volts-amps. Where's the energy savings?
You see:
This is why I don't like talking to eitehr Religious people or Envionmentalists. It's impossible to reason with them, because they are too busy hugging trees to bother to exercise the rational part of their brains. CFLS ARE FLAWED, AND I AM SICK AND TIRED OF WASTING MY MONEY ON THEM JUST TO WATCH THEM DIE EARLY. For you to sit there and act as if my genuine observatuions are sjust a bunch of bulsl;htio si an INSULT tom me. I'm a triple-degreed electrical engineer. Not an idiot. My observations have merit, and your casual dismissal of them is not in any way acceptable.
I have wasted so much money on CFLs it's ridiculous.
Instead of helping the environment, I'm filling it
with dead bulbs that stopped working prematurely.
This is a flawed technology.
I have Philips bulbs. They do switch=on immediately, but they are NOT full brightness. The worst is the 60-watt-equivalent bulbs which are only at half brightness and take 5 minutes until they finally reach full.
My Lights of America bulbs have the same flaw.
Ditto in the U.S. starting 2012.
Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid. There are many applications (like upside-down or enclosed fixtures) where nothing but an incandescent bulb will work, because the heat would kill a CFL's electronics. Our stupid employees in Congress need to be awakened to the reality - they either do what we tell them to do, or they'll get fired (permanently). Forcing us to abandon working bulbs for non-working bulbs is unacceptable.
JESUS on a popsicle stick! (Yes I watch lots of Penn&Teller).
We're only talking about ~30 watts difference per incandescent replaced by CFL. The central air conditioner or heater is somewhere around 10,000 watts. The bulb difference is just "noise" compared to how much the central unit uses.
Getting rid of windows would be the best energy saver. Windows leak heat like sieves. Take a look at this image - the house on the right is the best we can build, and yet it still has the fatal flaw of windows leaking energy : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Passivhaus_thermogram_gedaemmt_ungedaemmt.png
Me too. I've been using CFL's for almost twenty years, and I've come to the conclusion that they are a worse idea that using Edison's incandescent lighting. Here's why:
- CFLs have a power factor of around 0.5, which means they use twice as much power as rated. For example a 15 watt CFL uses 15 watts in your home, but then it uses another 15 watts at the central power plant due to the need to "rebalance" the power and restore the PF to 1.0. TOTAL == 30 volt-amps burned
- New technologies have allowed folks like GE to build 60 watt incandescants that only use 30 watts while still providing the same brightness. So the net usage is the same as the CFL. No need to abandon the old bulbs.
- CFLs *hate* heat. CFLs hate cold. CFLs hate humidity. CFLs hate dimmers. In practical terms this means CFLs can not be used in 80-90% of present fixtures. I used them in my upside-down ktichen lights - they died 2 months later. I used them outside in my porch light - it worked fine until the temperature dropped below zero, and then refused to light. I used them in my bathroom, and after a shower the humidity killed half of them. I bought a so-called "dimmable CFL" which died 5 minutes after I installed it in my living room dimmer switch. Instead of saving money, I'm wasting it on tons of dead CFLs.
- CFLs hate being turned on and off. Rapid cycling makes them die as quick as an incandescent bulb. So you've spent 5 times as much for a bulb than doesn't last any longer.
- CFLs have a warm-up time. Turn it on to read your paper, and you have to wait 5 minutes before you can see the writing. Turn it on to go down the basement stairs - and you can't see the steps because it's still too dim (a safety hazard).
I have about 20 CFLs in my home.
But I'm gradually phasing them out and
replacing them with 25 or 40 watt incandescents.
I tried to do my part to be green over the last two decades, but it's just not working. The CFLs are not the solution to reduced lighting expenses. Perhaps these new half-power incandescents from GE will provide an answer, or the new LED lights, but CFLs are not it.