I attempt to amuse myself as a diversion from the crushing and opressive mood "the attack" and it's fallout and ramifications has put me into.
I'm not saying that the US somehow masterminded or perpetrated "the attack". (as some have said). I'm sure everyone knew that something like this was inevitable. All the terrorist groups have been trying to do something like this, or wishing they could do something like this for decades.
I think what makes me feel WORST is that when I stand back and look at this attack - it was fucking beautiful. It was brilliant. It could have been executed in a far more deadly fashion.
1. The terrorists could have waited another hour, more people in the buildings than at 8:45.
2. The terrorists could have more carefully coordinated the crashes. They would not have lost the fourth plane.
3. They could have collected cell-phones from the passengers, and prevented them from finding out what was going to happen.
4. If both WTC planes had struck within a closer time-frame, and if both had struck LOWER in the buildings, many, many, many more deaths would have occurred.
5. I don't believe most of what I hear about this on the news, but a later report says that it's possible that 5 or 6 planes were planned, but at least one didn't fly due to a mechanical problem.
This could have been MUCH worse.
6. It could have been coordinated with a biological or chemical attack (killing ALL of the firemen, instead of only half) - or a car-bomb at the base of the tower, hindering the escape of people from the buildings. It could have been coordinated with an attack on the bridges or tunnels leading to/from that area, as people tried to escape.
7. Other tall buildings in other cities could have been involved.
8. Cyberwarfare could have been involved.
- - - - -
I have been wracked with insomnia this past week - thinking these things, how terrible and immoral they are. Yet, to protect yourself from a monster, you sometimes must become like that monster, you must understand that monster.
I grieve for the dead. I am apalled at the evil of the attack. I in no way sympathize with the cause or the people that spawned it. I desperately hope and pray that those responsible for it including those that assisted in any way, including funding, will be found and brought to brutal, bloody, vengeful justice.
Then, after listening to "the other side", hearing all the propaganda, anti-US sentiment, whining and complaining about how we hate arabs, we're out to exterminate muslims, we're a bunch of Zionist puppets. And I think of how the terrorist attack might have played into the hands of US policy, foreign and domestic.
1. The US law enforcement has been clamoring for YEARS to get better wiretap capabilities. Now they have them. We now live in a police state. Welcome to 1984.
2. It may not be obvious what the objective is. It looks like bin Laden, the manufactured villain of the day. But it's not. Whether he's responsible for the Trade Center destruction or not. He's now a very convenient excuse to play out a plan.
3a. What is the #1 scary monster for the US? Nuclear weapons. We've got them, and ever since then, we've been fighting like mad to keep control - make sure we're the only ones who have them, or that the ones who have them are our allies in the "New World Order".
3b. "Missile Defense" justification. Primarily, the goal of the "Military Industrial Complex" is to force consumers to spend as much money on their products as possible (thru taxation) - hence, all the arms sales around the world, etc. "Missile Defense" is a HUGE shot in the arm for sagging defense contractors. As will be the resulting conflict(s), and their consequences. (although, the hole in this deal is that - how does it serve anyone to annihilate stock prices and destroy the economy?)
3c. After reading that very long article (linked on slashdot yesterday) about Afghanistan - I'm quite certain that nobody in the whole world gives a rat's ass about that country, not even it's own people. The only people who care about Afghanistan are Pakistan, and the puppet government Pakistan installed there, the Taliban.
Therefore: Pakistan is the target here. A nuclear power, with a large number of Islamic fundamentalists. The US's worst nightmare. The recent military coup there was driven by what? A MORAL backlash against the previous civilian government. Their president was accused of corruption. This guy was accused of taking bribes and things like that.
You see, the "western way" of capitalism wouldn't be able to get along in a holier-than-thou land like Pakistan. Corruption is an integral part of capitalism. If a Microsoft programmer got his hands chopped off every time the Government thought Microsoft was cheating someone with it's opressive licensing scheme, that wouldn't be good for the industry. Or the economy. Or consumers. Or jobs. Or tax revenues (not that Microsoft pays any taxes, mind you. They don't).
I think that Pakistan will initially cooperate, but they'll change their tune in the middle, and the US will be forced to take action in "self-defense" as Pakistan starts hurling nukes at our troops as they commit "attrocities" in Afghanistan.
India: A very populous nation, on the brink of becoming a world superpower. They have nuclear weapons. They have a huge population of very intelligent, well-educated people. In fact, they figure in VERY importantly into the US economy's future, as a supply for cheap tech labor (H1-B visas, etc.). However, India has problems with internal turmoil and strife amongst minority religious zealots. Islamic fundamentalists, Sikhs, even Buddhists are bombing and slaughtering others in India. What is Pakistan? Essentially a rogue province of India that split-off because of a large percentage of Islamic people who didn't want to be a part of Modern secular India.
So - if this whole thing was playing into some supposed conspiracy's hands; the end-goal is to destabilize the region, possibly resulting in a small-scale nuclear war, and the annexation of Pakistan by India. This will settle Kashmir, for sure. Pakistani radicals will flood into Afghanistan, or Iran, further destabilizing that country.
The US gets a strong(er) economic and military ally in the region in India. The US gets it's own population under control. India gets Pakistan back, and hopefully a more secure Western frontier, Iran becomes a bit less stable and influential in the region. Islam as a whole bites a pillow. And the New World Order is that much more established. All because of those big-bad terrorists.
This conspiracy theory was brought to you by;
No sleep. Lots of caffeine. All the radical wacko web sites I've read in the past 5 years. All the terrorism apologists posting on slashdot in the past week. CNN. The FOX network. And Lockheed (TM), makers of the ExoAtmospheric Kill Vehicle (coming to a theatre near you).
there was also a study done in the late 80's by the US Govt to develop more lethal nuclear tactics and designs for different types of nuclear weapons. (I think that a write-up was done in TIME).
One tactic was to decimate an entire valley, the weapon would be deployed at a lower altitude, and the fallout would be largely contained and directed by the mountains on either side, intensifying the lethality, and making the farmland which usually resides in the basin unfarmable for decades afterwards. (This would be extremely effective in California, by the way)
US Troops, at the invitation of the Pakistani government, march from the Persian Sea Northward to the Afghan border to prepare for invasion and apprehension of bin Laden and his men.
um - tell me, how is it that the US is responsible for the Iraqi children? Isn't it Hussein? All he has to do is abide by the agreements he signed at the end of the war - remember? When he got his ASS KICKED?
actually, I'm quite suprised and heartened to see that so few muslims/arabs/people who look different - have been assaulted/threatened/killed in the past week. I expected MUCH worse. I expected rioting, mass marches on arab-american neighborhoods, etc.
It's tragic, the ones that died or were threatened, but hell, did anyone expect all 280 million citizens of THIS country to just sit down, and thoughtfully consider the situation? I'm amazed.
One thing troubles me - and nobody's been able to answer this one for me;
Bin Laden has not claimed responsibility for this act.
No one has.
What does this mean? With nearly every terrorist act in the past - the groups are usually clamoring to take credit for the glory of Islam. It helps in their funding campaigns.
So what the fuck is up with THIS event?
Bin Laden swears he had nothing to do with it, and in fact, has taken an oath as part of the conditions of his residency in Afghanistan that he was not to participate in these activities any more.
He may be a murderer - we're pretty sure of his activities in the past wrt the embassy bombings, etc. But is he a liar? Is this devout muslim, proud of his faith, resorting to lies, ashamed of his actions?
I don't know him. Everything I know about him comes from the US media.
Personally, I don't care if this piece of human filth gets splattered on the nosecone of a cruise missile. But on the other hand, what if we kill him - and walk away - leaving the TRUE guilty parties free to continue?
It just doesn't sound right. I'm not saying that muslims, even devout muslims don't lie or are not duplicitous. Even the Taliban state that drug-use is punishable by death, but they export opium because it's poison for their enemies of Islam around the world. But lies?
I bet that when it all comes out in the end, that bin Laden didn't have anything to do with this. I'm betting it's more likely that Hussein was involved. And that the reason why nobody has claimed responsibility yet is because this is only the beginning.
With the exception of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, every one of your examples was an example of an enemy hiding it's military forces among civilians. (as I keep having to remind you each time I see more of your BS posted here on/.)
And East Timor is not even an example. US forces were not involved. How can it be a US atrocity? The Indonesian government was responsible for that.
If your problem is with US foreign policy, in general, you are not alone. I agree, it's crap. But it's not a justification for the deliberate destruction of innocent civilians by NGO's during a time of peace. Saying that the employees of Cantor Fitzgerald were responsible for the deaths of the East Timorese and deserved a violent and fiery death is accepting the thought processes that led the terrorists to commit their acts.
Wow indeed. did you receive a sharp blow to the head from flying body parts of one of your cherished suicide bombers practicing his art?
Russia failed to take over Afghanistan. Perhaps you'd forgotten (conveniently) that whole deal about the US supplying Muhajadeen with weapons and intel and training.
Russia would OWN all of your fundamentalist asses if it weren't for the US.
You'd all be drinking vodka and partying on May Day.
The B52s carpet-bombed the Iraqi Republican Guard.
NOT civilians. If there were civilians in and among the Iraqi Republican Guard, was that the US's fault? Did Colin Powel tell the Iraqi Republican Guard to go camp out next to Iraqi civilian subdivisions? Who's fault is that?
I'm saying that the difference here is - perhaps civilians were killed in the Gulf War, and in the ongoing conflicts in many other nations where the US is involved, in either a supporting or a profitory way. But in NO case has any American soldier directed a weapon at a civilian target as the direct result of an order by his superiors, or by policy of the politicians he serves.
Yes, the East Timorese, the Palistineans, the Iraqi children are ALL TRAGIC STORIES. And yes, there are things that the US could have done to make their lives easier (or possible) - but that, again, would have involved choosing sides. And in many cases, NOT choosing a side is STILL choosing sides, no matter how you look at it, someone's going to be pissed-off that the US didn't do more to help them.
Bitching and moaning about US policy is one thing.
But do not equate our responsibility when our enemies put their own civilians in harm's way with the responsibility of deliberate murder of our civilians, because that argument falls flat.
In the past I have very often been vocal - here on slashdot, and elsewhere, outspoken AGAINST US foreign policy, and the abusive domestic policy of pandering to international corporations and banks. But I've never wished that anything like this would happen. This is not a way to change the system. I don't support protestors throwing rocks at police, and I don't support flying planes into buildings. It's just wrong. All wrong. Criticize US policy if you want - that's your right in this country. But saying that this tragedy was brought on by this policy is living in the same delusional mental state that the terrorists lived in. It is this delusional mental state which brought on this tragedy, and the policy did not cause the delusional mental state, it was idiots listening to evil politicians and clerics - spouting blind hatred and lies about promises of paradise.
Holy crap you're a fuckwit!
Did Americans pull the triggers or point the weapons? Americans profited from the sale of the weapons. For sure, a despicable act. But no American deliberately piloted a large fuel (and civilian)-laden aluminum missile at 300 knots directly into a building containing tens of thousands of other innocent civilians.
"we had to destroy the village in order to save it" is my whole fucking point. If the enemy "soldiers" wouldn't hide out among civilians, then their civilians would not be in danger.
Did the US have soldiers and weapons hidden in the WTC?
I can respect the attack on the Pentagon on those grounds (neglecting, of course, the civilians in the plane) - but you're way out of spec in your reasoning for the other things.
These people better be HAPPY that this didn't topple America, because they'd be considerably LESS happy if 40,000 nuclear warheads got into someone a little less cool-headed's hands.
Without America dominating the military landscape of today, think how many tin-pot dictators out there would LOVE to get ahold of the Middle East and it's oil resources. The fact that the US is the defacto controller and protector of that entire region is probably why there are any Arabs left alive in the Middle East at all.
Do you think Russia would think twice about conquering Iraq if it weren't for the US? Do you think the Russians would be any more friendly to civilian targets in Iraq? Think Chechnya.
There are people alive right now. Buried under tons of rubble, calling on their cell phones for help - and these people will very likely be dead before the week is out. Don't tell me that this is any kind of payback for attrocities done 10,000 miles away by people these victims never knew or met.
The US may harm civilians, but civilians have NEVER been the intentional target. Not since WWII. The US military has gone through great lengths to avoid harming civilians intentionally. To say that a few have gotten in the way when bullets started flying (largely because their enemies have dishonorably hidden themselves among civilians) would be closer to the truth.
The US does not blindly support Israeli policy. In fact, the Bush administration has been quite critical, and so was the Clinton administration. Nowhere NEAR the harshness the Israelis deserve, but then again, you can hardly blame the Israelis feeling the way they do - they want SECURITY, when every fucking nation around them is in a constant state of war, established for the sole purpose of destroying Israel. It was said that negotiations would not continue unless the violence stopped. And the suicide bombings continued. Tell me, what the FUCK are they supposed to do?
US Jets do not randomly bomb civilian targets in Iraq either. They may accidentally bomb civilian targets from time to time, but their intent, one which MANY of my tax dollars go to fund - is to take extreme care to AVOID Iraqi civilian targets, even when the irresponsible Iraqi military puts it's own fucking civilians in harm's way by positioning it's targets among them.
America will never be the same again, but it takes more than a little nick like this to bring us down. As far as it's enemies are concerned, the United States IS invincible.
No matter how much America would modify it's foreign policies to suit any Palistinian refugee's wet dreams, you know damn well that not everyone would be pleased, and such attacks, plots, and hatred would continue. So put a cork in it. We've all heard the hate-filled rhetoric that attempted to justify the attack - and frankly, it falls flat on it's face for what it is. Deciet, Distortion, and Devilry.
Neither this post, nor this article are (Score 5: Interesting).
I read a story about an eyewitness who saw an explosion in the air.
Debris from the plane was on the ground 8 miles from the crash site.
Cell phone conversations indicated the terrorists had a large red box that they claimed was a bomb.
Re:Is this a "war"?
on
More WTC News
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
I think the fact that it was primarily NGOs responsible (Non-Government Operatives) means that it was in fact NOT an act of war. The "Act of War" is rhetorical bullshit, and basically means that the gloves are off, and somebody is going to get fucked up, and the normal boundries that protect people will not protect these individuals.
Re:The views of a Muslim in NY
on
More WTC News
·
· Score: 1, Troll
I don't pray to your god.
My god says that when you're attacked, you turn the other cheek.
You say Jihad isn't valid here. I say Jihad shouldn't be valid ANYWHERE.
You say Jihad only allows fighting among soldiers. What is a soldier? Any person who calls himself a soldier. Such a philosophy is RIPE for abuse, as has been proven. Tuesday, and MANY times in the past.
Excuse me, Mr. STUPID FUCKHEAD Jews-run-the-world-and-control-the-media conspiracy theorist.
But flying a passenger jet into a building filled with civilians is NOT "defending their own country". That's not the opinion of someone brainwashed by a Jewish-controlled media machine. That's the opinion of a civilized human being. You should try being one sometime.
The ones who did this, and those who supported them, either materially, or ideologically, should be put down like the dogs they are.
Slashdot Mirror
Yes. I would be thankful for a squad of marines patrolling the town square where I live. I'm just glad my skin is white.
I attempt to amuse myself as a diversion from the crushing and opressive mood "the attack" and it's fallout and ramifications has put me into.
I'm not saying that the US somehow masterminded or perpetrated "the attack". (as some have said). I'm sure everyone knew that something like this was inevitable. All the terrorist groups have been trying to do something like this, or wishing they could do something like this for decades.
I think what makes me feel WORST is that when I stand back and look at this attack - it was fucking beautiful. It was brilliant. It could have been executed in a far more deadly fashion.
1. The terrorists could have waited another hour, more people in the buildings than at 8:45.
2. The terrorists could have more carefully coordinated the crashes. They would not have lost the fourth plane.
3. They could have collected cell-phones from the passengers, and prevented them from finding out what was going to happen.
4. If both WTC planes had struck within a closer time-frame, and if both had struck LOWER in the buildings, many, many, many more deaths would have occurred.
5. I don't believe most of what I hear about this on the news, but a later report says that it's possible that 5 or 6 planes were planned, but at least one didn't fly due to a mechanical problem.
This could have been MUCH worse.
6. It could have been coordinated with a biological or chemical attack (killing ALL of the firemen, instead of only half) - or a car-bomb at the base of the tower, hindering the escape of people from the buildings. It could have been coordinated with an attack on the bridges or tunnels leading to/from that area, as people tried to escape.
7. Other tall buildings in other cities could have been involved.
8. Cyberwarfare could have been involved.
- - - - -
I have been wracked with insomnia this past week - thinking these things, how terrible and immoral they are. Yet, to protect yourself from a monster, you sometimes must become like that monster, you must understand that monster.
I grieve for the dead. I am apalled at the evil of the attack. I in no way sympathize with the cause or the people that spawned it. I desperately hope and pray that those responsible for it including those that assisted in any way, including funding, will be found and brought to brutal, bloody, vengeful justice.
Then, after listening to "the other side", hearing all the propaganda, anti-US sentiment, whining and complaining about how we hate arabs, we're out to exterminate muslims, we're a bunch of Zionist puppets. And I think of how the terrorist attack might have played into the hands of US policy, foreign and domestic.
1. The US law enforcement has been clamoring for YEARS to get better wiretap capabilities. Now they have them. We now live in a police state. Welcome to 1984.
2. It may not be obvious what the objective is. It looks like bin Laden, the manufactured villain of the day. But it's not. Whether he's responsible for the Trade Center destruction or not. He's now a very convenient excuse to play out a plan.
3a. What is the #1 scary monster for the US? Nuclear weapons. We've got them, and ever since then, we've been fighting like mad to keep control - make sure we're the only ones who have them, or that the ones who have them are our allies in the "New World Order".
3b. "Missile Defense" justification. Primarily, the goal of the "Military Industrial Complex" is to force consumers to spend as much money on their products as possible (thru taxation) - hence, all the arms sales around the world, etc. "Missile Defense" is a HUGE shot in the arm for sagging defense contractors. As will be the resulting conflict(s), and their consequences. (although, the hole in this deal is that - how does it serve anyone to annihilate stock prices and destroy the economy?)
3c. After reading that very long article (linked on slashdot yesterday) about Afghanistan - I'm quite certain that nobody in the whole world gives a rat's ass about that country, not even it's own people. The only people who care about Afghanistan are Pakistan, and the puppet government Pakistan installed there, the Taliban.
Therefore: Pakistan is the target here. A nuclear power, with a large number of Islamic fundamentalists. The US's worst nightmare. The recent military coup there was driven by what? A MORAL backlash against the previous civilian government. Their president was accused of corruption. This guy was accused of taking bribes and things like that.
You see, the "western way" of capitalism wouldn't be able to get along in a holier-than-thou land like Pakistan. Corruption is an integral part of capitalism. If a Microsoft programmer got his hands chopped off every time the Government thought Microsoft was cheating someone with it's opressive licensing scheme, that wouldn't be good for the industry. Or the economy. Or consumers. Or jobs. Or tax revenues (not that Microsoft pays any taxes, mind you. They don't).
I think that Pakistan will initially cooperate, but they'll change their tune in the middle, and the US will be forced to take action in "self-defense" as Pakistan starts hurling nukes at our troops as they commit "attrocities" in Afghanistan.
India: A very populous nation, on the brink of becoming a world superpower. They have nuclear weapons. They have a huge population of very intelligent, well-educated people. In fact, they figure in VERY importantly into the US economy's future, as a supply for cheap tech labor (H1-B visas, etc.). However, India has problems with internal turmoil and strife amongst minority religious zealots. Islamic fundamentalists, Sikhs, even Buddhists are bombing and slaughtering others in India. What is Pakistan? Essentially a rogue province of India that split-off because of a large percentage of Islamic people who didn't want to be a part of Modern secular India.
So - if this whole thing was playing into some supposed conspiracy's hands; the end-goal is to destabilize the region, possibly resulting in a small-scale nuclear war, and the annexation of Pakistan by India. This will settle Kashmir, for sure. Pakistani radicals will flood into Afghanistan, or Iran, further destabilizing that country.
The US gets a strong(er) economic and military ally in the region in India. The US gets it's own population under control. India gets Pakistan back, and hopefully a more secure Western frontier, Iran becomes a bit less stable and influential in the region. Islam as a whole bites a pillow. And the New World Order is that much more established. All because of those big-bad terrorists.
This conspiracy theory was brought to you by;
No sleep. Lots of caffeine. All the radical wacko web sites I've read in the past 5 years. All the terrorism apologists posting on slashdot in the past week. CNN. The FOX network. And Lockheed (TM), makers of the ExoAtmospheric Kill Vehicle (coming to a theatre near you).
there was also a study done in the late 80's by the US Govt to develop more lethal nuclear tactics and designs for different types of nuclear weapons. (I think that a write-up was done in TIME).
One tactic was to decimate an entire valley, the weapon would be deployed at a lower altitude, and the fallout would be largely contained and directed by the mountains on either side, intensifying the lethality, and making the farmland which usually resides in the basin unfarmable for decades afterwards. (This would be extremely effective in California, by the way)
I'm sure if 4000 federal agents investigated abortion clinic bombings, we'd see where some of the funding comes from. . .
A more likely nuclear scenario;
US Troops, at the invitation of the Pakistani government, march from the Persian Sea Northward to the Afghan border to prepare for invasion and apprehension of bin Laden and his men.
Pakistan drops a nuke over the US troops.
um - tell me, how is it that the US is responsible for the Iraqi children? Isn't it Hussein? All he has to do is abide by the agreements he signed at the end of the war - remember? When he got his ASS KICKED?
Then the Iraqi children will stop dying.
I'm fucking sick of this Gulf War revisionism.
what about Christians who, by giving money to their church, are unwittingly giving money to violent anti-abortion groups?
actually, I'm quite suprised and heartened to see that so few muslims/arabs/people who look different - have been assaulted/threatened/killed in the past week. I expected MUCH worse. I expected rioting, mass marches on arab-american neighborhoods, etc.
It's tragic, the ones that died or were threatened, but hell, did anyone expect all 280 million citizens of THIS country to just sit down, and thoughtfully consider the situation? I'm amazed.
One thing troubles me - and nobody's been able to answer this one for me;
Bin Laden has not claimed responsibility for this act.
No one has.
What does this mean? With nearly every terrorist act in the past - the groups are usually clamoring to take credit for the glory of Islam. It helps in their funding campaigns.
So what the fuck is up with THIS event?
Bin Laden swears he had nothing to do with it, and in fact, has taken an oath as part of the conditions of his residency in Afghanistan that he was not to participate in these activities any more.
He may be a murderer - we're pretty sure of his activities in the past wrt the embassy bombings, etc. But is he a liar? Is this devout muslim, proud of his faith, resorting to lies, ashamed of his actions?
I don't know him. Everything I know about him comes from the US media.
Personally, I don't care if this piece of human filth gets splattered on the nosecone of a cruise missile. But on the other hand, what if we kill him - and walk away - leaving the TRUE guilty parties free to continue?
It just doesn't sound right. I'm not saying that muslims, even devout muslims don't lie or are not duplicitous. Even the Taliban state that drug-use is punishable by death, but they export opium because it's poison for their enemies of Islam around the world. But lies?
I bet that when it all comes out in the end, that bin Laden didn't have anything to do with this. I'm betting it's more likely that Hussein was involved. And that the reason why nobody has claimed responsibility yet is because this is only the beginning.
You are so full of it.
/.)
With the exception of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, every one of your examples was an example of an enemy hiding it's military forces among civilians. (as I keep having to remind you each time I see more of your BS posted here on
And East Timor is not even an example. US forces were not involved. How can it be a US atrocity? The Indonesian government was responsible for that.
If your problem is with US foreign policy, in general, you are not alone. I agree, it's crap. But it's not a justification for the deliberate destruction of innocent civilians by NGO's during a time of peace. Saying that the employees of Cantor Fitzgerald were responsible for the deaths of the East Timorese and deserved a violent and fiery death is accepting the thought processes that led the terrorists to commit their acts.
Seek psychiatric help immediately!
Why is it that people on the left believe the press to be biased to the right, and people on the right believe the press to be biased to the left?
hey, don't get in the way of my fun. I'm working here!
Wow indeed. did you receive a sharp blow to the head from flying body parts of one of your cherished suicide bombers practicing his art?
Russia failed to take over Afghanistan. Perhaps you'd forgotten (conveniently) that whole deal about the US supplying Muhajadeen with weapons and intel and training.
Russia would OWN all of your fundamentalist asses if it weren't for the US.
You'd all be drinking vodka and partying on May Day.
The B52s carpet-bombed the Iraqi Republican Guard.
NOT civilians. If there were civilians in and among the Iraqi Republican Guard, was that the US's fault? Did Colin Powel tell the Iraqi Republican Guard to go camp out next to Iraqi civilian subdivisions? Who's fault is that?
I'm saying that the difference here is - perhaps civilians were killed in the Gulf War, and in the ongoing conflicts in many other nations where the US is involved, in either a supporting or a profitory way. But in NO case has any American soldier directed a weapon at a civilian target as the direct result of an order by his superiors, or by policy of the politicians he serves.
Yes, the East Timorese, the Palistineans, the Iraqi children are ALL TRAGIC STORIES. And yes, there are things that the US could have done to make their lives easier (or possible) - but that, again, would have involved choosing sides. And in many cases, NOT choosing a side is STILL choosing sides, no matter how you look at it, someone's going to be pissed-off that the US didn't do more to help them.
Bitching and moaning about US policy is one thing.
But do not equate our responsibility when our enemies put their own civilians in harm's way with the responsibility of deliberate murder of our civilians, because that argument falls flat.
In the past I have very often been vocal - here on slashdot, and elsewhere, outspoken AGAINST US foreign policy, and the abusive domestic policy of pandering to international corporations and banks. But I've never wished that anything like this would happen. This is not a way to change the system. I don't support protestors throwing rocks at police, and I don't support flying planes into buildings. It's just wrong. All wrong. Criticize US policy if you want - that's your right in this country. But saying that this tragedy was brought on by this policy is living in the same delusional mental state that the terrorists lived in. It is this delusional mental state which brought on this tragedy, and the policy did not cause the delusional mental state, it was idiots listening to evil politicians and clerics - spouting blind hatred and lies about promises of paradise.
Holy crap you're a fuckwit!
Did Americans pull the triggers or point the weapons? Americans profited from the sale of the weapons. For sure, a despicable act. But no American deliberately piloted a large fuel (and civilian)-laden aluminum missile at 300 knots directly into a building containing tens of thousands of other innocent civilians.
"we had to destroy the village in order to save it" is my whole fucking point. If the enemy "soldiers" wouldn't hide out among civilians, then their civilians would not be in danger.
Did the US have soldiers and weapons hidden in the WTC?
I can respect the attack on the Pentagon on those grounds (neglecting, of course, the civilians in the plane) - but you're way out of spec in your reasoning for the other things.
I can see it now.
Harry Potter and The Prophet's Stone.
I'm not trying to make this grim situation humorous, I'm just mocking the idea of converting fundamentalist whackos to the religion of Capitalism.
These people better be HAPPY that this didn't topple America, because they'd be considerably LESS happy if 40,000 nuclear warheads got into someone a little less cool-headed's hands.
Without America dominating the military landscape of today, think how many tin-pot dictators out there would LOVE to get ahold of the Middle East and it's oil resources. The fact that the US is the defacto controller and protector of that entire region is probably why there are any Arabs left alive in the Middle East at all.
Do you think Russia would think twice about conquering Iraq if it weren't for the US? Do you think the Russians would be any more friendly to civilian targets in Iraq? Think Chechnya.
Everyone died instantly?
more fucking BULLSHIT!
There are people alive right now. Buried under tons of rubble, calling on their cell phones for help - and these people will very likely be dead before the week is out. Don't tell me that this is any kind of payback for attrocities done 10,000 miles away by people these victims never knew or met.
The US may harm civilians, but civilians have NEVER been the intentional target. Not since WWII. The US military has gone through great lengths to avoid harming civilians intentionally. To say that a few have gotten in the way when bullets started flying (largely because their enemies have dishonorably hidden themselves among civilians) would be closer to the truth.
This is a gross distortion.
The US does not blindly support Israeli policy. In fact, the Bush administration has been quite critical, and so was the Clinton administration. Nowhere NEAR the harshness the Israelis deserve, but then again, you can hardly blame the Israelis feeling the way they do - they want SECURITY, when every fucking nation around them is in a constant state of war, established for the sole purpose of destroying Israel. It was said that negotiations would not continue unless the violence stopped. And the suicide bombings continued. Tell me, what the FUCK are they supposed to do?
US Jets do not randomly bomb civilian targets in Iraq either. They may accidentally bomb civilian targets from time to time, but their intent, one which MANY of my tax dollars go to fund - is to take extreme care to AVOID Iraqi civilian targets, even when the irresponsible Iraqi military puts it's own fucking civilians in harm's way by positioning it's targets among them.
America will never be the same again, but it takes more than a little nick like this to bring us down. As far as it's enemies are concerned, the United States IS invincible.
No matter how much America would modify it's foreign policies to suit any Palistinian refugee's wet dreams, you know damn well that not everyone would be pleased, and such attacks, plots, and hatred would continue. So put a cork in it. We've all heard the hate-filled rhetoric that attempted to justify the attack - and frankly, it falls flat on it's face for what it is. Deciet, Distortion, and Devilry.
Neither this post, nor this article are (Score 5: Interesting).
or something containing noxious, harmful, dangerous, brain-damaging chemicals.
I mean, what the FUCK is a sing-song monotone?
At least we found out for a fact that the Pentagon was NOT a giant mystical prison for a captured Yog Shothoth.
Could you imagine if the release of THAT followed the air crash and subsequent breach of the Pentagon?
I read a story about an eyewitness who saw an explosion in the air.
Debris from the plane was on the ground 8 miles from the crash site.
Cell phone conversations indicated the terrorists had a large red box that they claimed was a bomb.
I think the fact that it was primarily NGOs responsible (Non-Government Operatives) means that it was in fact NOT an act of war. The "Act of War" is rhetorical bullshit, and basically means that the gloves are off, and somebody is going to get fucked up, and the normal boundries that protect people will not protect these individuals.
I don't pray to your god.
My god says that when you're attacked, you turn the other cheek.
You say Jihad isn't valid here. I say Jihad shouldn't be valid ANYWHERE.
You say Jihad only allows fighting among soldiers. What is a soldier? Any person who calls himself a soldier. Such a philosophy is RIPE for abuse, as has been proven. Tuesday, and MANY times in the past.
Excuse me, Mr. STUPID FUCKHEAD Jews-run-the-world-and-control-the-media conspiracy theorist.
But flying a passenger jet into a building filled with civilians is NOT "defending their own country". That's not the opinion of someone brainwashed by a Jewish-controlled media machine. That's the opinion of a civilized human being. You should try being one sometime.
The ones who did this, and those who supported them, either materially, or ideologically, should be put down like the dogs they are.
Yes, I'm saying that includes you, fuckwad.