Out in the real world, no one cares whether Java is open source or not. Anyone can quickly obtain it with a couple of mouse clicks. If it enhances the functionality of OOo then why not use it?
What about platforms where Sun does not provide a JVM? Those people will never be able to tun the full OOo, and the more Java used, the less they will be able to use. Will it eventually be zero?
This really is the problem. It ties OOo to only the platforms that Sun wants to support. Open java and the problem goes away.
g4u is available, but imaging in general is more of a "windows" concept. I prefer to just install bootblocks (dd), and do an automated partition (fixed sized root, tmp, swap, var, variable sized/usr/local./home is automounted.) Then restore from the "golden" master (combo of cpio for dev, and tar for the rest.) All that can be (and is) automated. This is a VERY common way of doing things in Unix that any competant admin will know. I prefer that to "kickstart reinstalls" any day (with the advantage being that they work with ANY distribution)
If you REALLY want to "image", just plain "dd" piped through gzip does a dandy job. If your system is "dirty" (having lots of deleted crap in the unallocated disk blocks,) you can do a "cat/dev/zero >bigtempfile; rm bigtempfile" first.
But you can't realistically hang a CRT RPTV on the wall, viewing angles still suck, and displays are still dim. They also have major alignment issues. Or am I missing something???
Um, Asterisk IS a PBX. It already works BETTER than most any other small-business PBX out there for a fraction of the cost. I've been running it over a year and it has NEVER crashed.
Digium (the company behind Asterisk) is obviously targeting the "larger than SOHO" business market - 18 ports and up. They sell a 4-port T1 card that gives you 92+ voice channels (depending on your circuit type.) Sangoma also is getting into the Asterisk / voice market with their own T1 cards.
Telco is it's own little world. You can be a really good networking / server person and be a fish out of water when it comes to deploying a PBX. Some people really don't understand that, then get all frustrated when they try to deploy an asterisk system all by themselves, have problems, then start bad mouthing it. But you don't have to go it alone. There are lots of consultants that can help. You wouldn't buy a $750K Nortel phone system and install it all by yourself would you?
For SoHo people, google for "asterisk at home." It can be fairly easy.
FWIW, grandstream phones are NOT well thought of in the * community. The 488 is a brand-new thing for grandstream whereas Sipura has been doing ATA's for a LONG time. I believe Sipura actually designed the original cisco ATA-186/8.
So they may be cheaper, but I kind of doubt that they are really "better" IMHO.
Well, that's funny, but the ability to call another extension is Very nice some times. I have a woodshop out back (loud ringer with a visual indicator,) and sometimes I answer a call that's for my wife. Rather than go outside in the snow, and yell throughout the house trying to find her, I just park the call and page her (All Call). If she doesn't answer I transfer the call to her personal voicemail. No more forgeting to give her the message and have her get all mad or anything.
In addition to the features pointed out by other posters, telemarketer avoidance is a HUGE benefit. IMO, the donotcall list is a failure due to all the exceptions (think back to the pre-election timeframe...) I've been running * for over a year now, and have quite a nice dial-plan / feature list. I have it integrated with an intercom, mp3 server, phones in various places (garage, basement, etc.), speed-dials for family, callerID rewriting (put a REAL name on the number), time-of-day inbound restrictions (no more wrong-number calls in the middle of the night), time of day restrictions based on called ID, etc.
I also get my voicemails via email, can access everything remotely via VoIP or normal phone, can use VoIP from the hotel on my laptop to call my wife, call friends without using long-distance, transfer my home-office phone to wherever I am, etc.
It makes the old "stupid annoying phone" not so annoying and a lot more useful.
That was exactly my point. You are going to find that most common desktop hardware does not have a problem at all. Occasionally you will come across a "windows only" device, but they can be replaced quite inexpensivly. If you do come across an oddball machine that doesn't cooperate, just toss it. Trying to find Windows drivers for oddball stuff is usually quite hard too (and not worth the time.)
Furthermore, you are going to want to stay within a reasonable span of "current". Trying to support labs full of one-off 486's and P-60's isn't going to be reasonable no matter what OS you use.
There is quite a gap between "totally random" and "all exactly the same" hardware. In the real world of education, schools buy in lots, so you end up with 20 of type A, 50 of B, a dozen C, etc. with "occasional" purchasing of one-off stuff.
Pulling out an example of a case where Linux doesn't have current support of a particular piece of obscure server hardware and calling the entire concept flawed is disingenuous.
So what we seem to have here is an environment where the editors don't have editorial control. That's bad. I would definatly leave if I were the editor that didn't have the authority to do my job...
FWIW, I have already (several months ago) stopped going to the LW site due to the O'Gara issue, AND wrote them an email about it (at the time...)
Are you saying that readers of LinuxWorld are demanding more trash articles from O'Gara? Funny, I though most Linux people think of her as a paid figurehead of MS / SCO / etc. and that her articles are bogus...
What I find MORE interesting is that the editors for LinuxWorld are going along with her crap. This anti-linux anti-OSS bias in a Linux magazine is mind-boggling. What are they thinking? Maybe a letter campaign to the advertizers would be effective.
Oi! Kids! You're punished for trying to learn about the machines! This is school, not.. uh..
In an IT class, maybe. Not on general lab / library / wordprocessing machines. Damaging computers so that they can't be used for their primary purpose is vandalism. Try spray-painting graffiti all over your school and claiming that you were learning art and see how far that gets you...
Hopefully one of the things they'll be learning is the difference between "their", "there" and "they're"!
Keep in mind that English is not always the primary language of many of the people on/.
This is what drives me nuts about spelling / grammar / language police. If you have something constructive to add, then please do so. Harping on people's typos and other minor mistakes is not helpful.
I think that depends on the school. Not all schools have the funds to buy computers and take whatever they can get. This is especially true in the US where local property tax dollars are frequently the primary source of funding. In poor / rural areas, there just isn't the money to buy all new systems every 4 years. Heck, I still see old Mac Classic's and 386's all over the place.
Furthermore, Linux doesn't have the same diverse hardware issues when dealing with images that windows does. Think Knoppix as an example of how this works.
Bottom, line is that this is NOT a "clearly false" argument as you claim. It may be false SOME places, not not ALL places.
The majority of Windows cost is in ongoing licenses (upgrades) and maintenance (spyware, malware, etc.) This is where Linux saves big. If the purchasing negotiators are worth their paycheck (which they probably aren't,) then you will already be reciving steep hardware discounts leaving little profit for the manufacturer / reseller. Furthermore, many of the volume license agreements have you buying ALL your licenses through that agreement, and licenses purchased with machines "don't count". You should have negotiated that reduction based on that fact.
Schools and businesses over 10 employees shouldn't be paying list prices that include MS licenses. If they are, complain to your school board or whatever government agency is responsible.
As long as you are still using Windows, you are not threatening. Announce a migration to Linux and THEN you may get free or significantly reduced product.
MS WANTS it's software in education so that Windows and MS Office are the only things young people entering the workforce know. Apple's educational programs are really the only thing that kept them alive all these years (although OS X has finally given them a true technological edge over MS so it's not Quite as important, but is still important. Pre-OS X MacOS was truely horrible.)
Bullocks. Most modern laser printers have duplexers as OPTIONS. Guess what they do: flip the paper over and run it through again. I've never seen a laser printer that has had problems with 2 sided (manual) printing - even printers almost 20 years ago. This includes xerox, lexmark, HP, brother, samsung, cannon, Oki, and others.
If you actually came across a printer that has this horrible design defect, please let us all know so we can avoid that brand / model.
If you have good eyesight, you can also try 2-up printing to reduce the number of pages in half.
Even a cheap laser without duplexing can still do two-sided printing. You just have to flip the stack over manually and print even / odd pages.
From the OP: " Cheap ink-jet printers are not designed to do this task at a reasonable speed and cost." No shit sherlock. Just figure that out yesterday? Why would anyone even CONSIDER using an inkjet for a 400 page manual????? The only time I use an inkjet is when I really need color on a few pages. If I'm dealing with a large document, I'll print it on the laser, and just reprint a couple color pages on the inkjet if needed.
Furthermore, color lasers are now getting really cheap. While they suck for photos, they are great for manuals, web pages, etc.
A few years back (damn, has it been that long already?), I did some volunteer work for the original NetDay projects in the bay area (silicon valley.) In the heart of modern technology, I found original IBM PC's (circa 1982) and Apple ]['s (not even a ][e.) They didn't have any recent machines at all (even the admin offices had old crap.) The physical buildings and books were just as bad. The computers are better now since the cost of computers has come down so much, but you don't have to be in rural American schools to have old, outdated tech.
I've since moved out of the bay area, but where I am now the schools are no better. Like the San Jose schools, they are poorly maintained, old, worn out, etc.
Yep. And one possible answer is LTSP. Cheap, thin clients. No local drives at all (maybe non-booting, automounted noexec,nosuid,nodev USB access for keyfob drives.) I've even seen netboot systems that re-image a small local drive each time they power up. Keyboards and mice are cheap to replace if needed. Kids don't need CD or floppy access. Lock em down hard. Use extended ACL's and capabilities. Monitored proxies for all external access.
If kids want toys, they can play at home - not school. When you are at school, you are on Mr. Taxpayer's computer and do NOT have the right to go in and screw with the system. Put video cameras in the labs and force the parents to pay for any damage their kids do.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the WTC steel issue was not steel encased in concrete, but steel without enough sprayed-on fireproofing to handle the intense heat. Furthermore, if it were not for the extra 20,000 gallons of Jet fuel, there wouldn't have been a problem either. A normal fire would not have caused that much damage / weakening of the steel...
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Get back to me when they have a native version that runs on Linux.
Out in the real world, no one cares whether Java is open source or not. Anyone can quickly obtain it with a couple of mouse clicks. If it enhances the functionality of OOo then why not use it?
What about platforms where Sun does not provide a JVM? Those people will never be able to tun the full OOo, and the more Java used, the less they will be able to use. Will it eventually be zero?
This really is the problem. It ties OOo to only the platforms that Sun wants to support. Open java and the problem goes away.
g4u is available, but imaging in general is more of a "windows" concept. I prefer to just install bootblocks (dd), and do an automated partition (fixed sized root, tmp, swap, var, variable sized /usr/local. /home is automounted.) Then restore from the "golden" master (combo of cpio for dev, and tar for the rest.) All that can be (and is) automated. This is a VERY common way of doing things in Unix that any competant admin will know. I prefer that to "kickstart reinstalls" any day (with the advantage being that they work with ANY distribution)
/dev/zero >bigtempfile; rm bigtempfile" first.
If you REALLY want to "image", just plain "dd" piped through gzip does a dandy job. If your system is "dirty" (having lots of deleted crap in the unallocated disk blocks,) you can do a "cat
But you can't realistically hang a CRT RPTV on the wall, viewing angles still suck, and displays are still dim. They also have major alignment issues. Or am I missing something???
Um, Asterisk IS a PBX. It already works BETTER than most any other small-business PBX out there for a fraction of the cost. I've been running it over a year and it has NEVER crashed.
Digium (the company behind Asterisk) is obviously targeting the "larger than SOHO" business market - 18 ports and up. They sell a 4-port T1 card that gives you 92+ voice channels (depending on your circuit type.) Sangoma also is getting into the Asterisk / voice market with their own T1 cards.
Telco is it's own little world. You can be a really good networking / server person and be a fish out of water when it comes to deploying a PBX. Some people really don't understand that, then get all frustrated when they try to deploy an asterisk system all by themselves, have problems, then start bad mouthing it. But you don't have to go it alone. There are lots of consultants that can help. You wouldn't buy a $750K Nortel phone system and install it all by yourself would you?
For SoHo people, google for "asterisk at home." It can be fairly easy.
If you tried shopping around AT ALL you will find it for under $100. For what it does, that's not a bad price at all.
FWIW, grandstream phones are NOT well thought of in the * community. The 488 is a brand-new thing for grandstream whereas Sipura has been doing ATA's for a LONG time. I believe Sipura actually designed the original cisco ATA-186/8.
So they may be cheaper, but I kind of doubt that they are really "better" IMHO.
Well, that's funny, but the ability to call another extension is Very nice some times. I have a woodshop out back (loud ringer with a visual indicator,) and sometimes I answer a call that's for my wife. Rather than go outside in the snow, and yell throughout the house trying to find her, I just park the call and page her (All Call). If she doesn't answer I transfer the call to her personal voicemail. No more forgeting to give her the message and have her get all mad or anything.
In addition to the features pointed out by other posters, telemarketer avoidance is a HUGE benefit. IMO, the donotcall list is a failure due to all the exceptions (think back to the pre-election timeframe...) I've been running * for over a year now, and have quite a nice dial-plan / feature list. I have it integrated with an intercom, mp3 server, phones in various places (garage, basement, etc.), speed-dials for family, callerID rewriting (put a REAL name on the number), time-of-day inbound restrictions (no more wrong-number calls in the middle of the night), time of day restrictions based on called ID, etc.
I also get my voicemails via email, can access everything remotely via VoIP or normal phone, can use VoIP from the hotel on my laptop to call my wife, call friends without using long-distance, transfer my home-office phone to wherever I am, etc.
It makes the old "stupid annoying phone" not so annoying and a lot more useful.
That was exactly my point. You are going to find that most common desktop hardware does not have a problem at all. Occasionally you will come across a "windows only" device, but they can be replaced quite inexpensivly. If you do come across an oddball machine that doesn't cooperate, just toss it. Trying to find Windows drivers for oddball stuff is usually quite hard too (and not worth the time.)
Furthermore, you are going to want to stay within a reasonable span of "current". Trying to support labs full of one-off 486's and P-60's isn't going to be reasonable no matter what OS you use.
There is quite a gap between "totally random" and "all exactly the same" hardware. In the real world of education, schools buy in lots, so you end up with 20 of type A, 50 of B, a dozen C, etc. with "occasional" purchasing of one-off stuff.
Pulling out an example of a case where Linux doesn't have current support of a particular piece of obscure server hardware and calling the entire concept flawed is disingenuous.
I stand corrected. The FA was /.ed at the time...
So what we seem to have here is an environment where the editors don't have editorial control. That's bad. I would definatly leave if I were the editor that didn't have the authority to do my job...
FWIW, I have already (several months ago) stopped going to the LW site due to the O'Gara issue, AND wrote them an email about it (at the time...)
Uhm, but aren't we talking about the UK here?
I was thinking we were talking about schools in general everywhere, because the problem is everywhere (not just the UK.)
Are you saying that readers of LinuxWorld are demanding more trash articles from O'Gara? Funny, I though most Linux people think of her as a paid figurehead of MS / SCO / etc. and that her articles are bogus...
What I find MORE interesting is that the editors for LinuxWorld are going along with her crap. This anti-linux anti-OSS bias in a Linux magazine is mind-boggling. What are they thinking? Maybe a letter campaign to the advertizers would be effective.
Oi! Kids! You're punished for trying to learn about the machines! This is school, not .. uh..
In an IT class, maybe. Not on general lab / library / wordprocessing machines. Damaging computers so that they can't be used for their primary purpose is vandalism. Try spray-painting graffiti all over your school and claiming that you were learning art and see how far that gets you...
Hopefully one of the things they'll be learning is the difference between "their", "there" and "they're"!
/.
Keep in mind that English is not always the primary language of many of the people on
This is what drives me nuts about spelling / grammar / language police. If you have something constructive to add, then please do so. Harping on people's typos and other minor mistakes is not helpful.
I think that depends on the school. Not all schools have the funds to buy computers and take whatever they can get. This is especially true in the US where local property tax dollars are frequently the primary source of funding. In poor / rural areas, there just isn't the money to buy all new systems every 4 years. Heck, I still see old Mac Classic's and 386's all over the place.
Furthermore, Linux doesn't have the same diverse hardware issues when dealing with images that windows does. Think Knoppix as an example of how this works.
Bottom, line is that this is NOT a "clearly false" argument as you claim. It may be false SOME places, not not ALL places.
there's ovbiously a lack of OSS spelling tools
A spelling-police anti-OSS troll that can't spell. Nice.
The majority of Windows cost is in ongoing licenses (upgrades) and maintenance (spyware, malware, etc.) This is where Linux saves big. If the purchasing negotiators are worth their paycheck (which they probably aren't,) then you will already be reciving steep hardware discounts leaving little profit for the manufacturer / reseller. Furthermore, many of the volume license agreements have you buying ALL your licenses through that agreement, and licenses purchased with machines "don't count". You should have negotiated that reduction based on that fact.
Schools and businesses over 10 employees shouldn't be paying list prices that include MS licenses. If they are, complain to your school board or whatever government agency is responsible.
As long as you are still using Windows, you are not threatening. Announce a migration to Linux and THEN you may get free or significantly reduced product.
MS WANTS it's software in education so that Windows and MS Office are the only things young people entering the workforce know. Apple's educational programs are really the only thing that kept them alive all these years (although OS X has finally given them a true technological edge over MS so it's not Quite as important, but is still important. Pre-OS X MacOS was truely horrible.)
Bullocks. Most modern laser printers have duplexers as OPTIONS. Guess what they do: flip the paper over and run it through again. I've never seen a laser printer that has had problems with 2 sided (manual) printing - even printers almost 20 years ago. This includes xerox, lexmark, HP, brother, samsung, cannon, Oki, and others.
If you actually came across a printer that has this horrible design defect, please let us all know so we can avoid that brand / model.
If you have good eyesight, you can also try 2-up printing to reduce the number of pages in half.
Even a cheap laser without duplexing can still do two-sided printing. You just have to flip the stack over manually and print even / odd pages.
From the OP: " Cheap ink-jet printers are not designed to do this task at a reasonable speed and cost." No shit sherlock. Just figure that out yesterday? Why would anyone even CONSIDER using an inkjet for a 400 page manual????? The only time I use an inkjet is when I really need color on a few pages. If I'm dealing with a large document, I'll print it on the laser, and just reprint a couple color pages on the inkjet if needed.
Furthermore, color lasers are now getting really cheap. While they suck for photos, they are great for manuals, web pages, etc.
A few years back (damn, has it been that long already?), I did some volunteer work for the original NetDay projects in the bay area (silicon valley.) In the heart of modern technology, I found original IBM PC's (circa 1982) and Apple ]['s (not even a ][e.) They didn't have any recent machines at all (even the admin offices had old crap.) The physical buildings and books were just as bad. The computers are better now since the cost of computers has come down so much, but you don't have to be in rural American schools to have old, outdated tech.
I've since moved out of the bay area, but where I am now the schools are no better. Like the San Jose schools, they are poorly maintained, old, worn out, etc.
Yep. And one possible answer is LTSP. Cheap, thin clients. No local drives at all (maybe non-booting, automounted noexec,nosuid,nodev USB access for keyfob drives.) I've even seen netboot systems that re-image a small local drive each time they power up. Keyboards and mice are cheap to replace if needed. Kids don't need CD or floppy access. Lock em down hard. Use extended ACL's and capabilities. Monitored proxies for all external access.
If kids want toys, they can play at home - not school. When you are at school, you are on Mr. Taxpayer's computer and do NOT have the right to go in and screw with the system. Put video cameras in the labs and force the parents to pay for any damage their kids do.
I did not say it melted. I said it was weakened. When steel gets hot, it gets soft.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the WTC steel issue was not steel encased in concrete, but steel without enough sprayed-on fireproofing to handle the intense heat. Furthermore, if it were not for the extra 20,000 gallons of Jet fuel, there wouldn't have been a problem either. A normal fire would not have caused that much damage / weakening of the steel...