Oh, it's pretty clear what SCO is trying to do is claim that the GPL is invalid, therefore the fact that they were ALSO distributing linux is moot. It's firing back at IBM's and others claims that SCO has given up all rights to any IP based upon that fact that they distributed Linux under the GPL. And it's not gonna work.
Agree. Couldn't MS with it's infinate $$$ make the damn thing listen to 127.0.0.1 ONLY by default????? This is Very common in the Unix world. For example, squid ships so that you have to specifically open the thing up before it listens to anything other than localhost. Ditto for email (on many distributions anyway.)
This is yet another case where MS just doesn't "get it." The common wisdom (for Many Many years) has been to be secure by default, and open things up as needed. RedHat used to be bad about this too, but at least they learned. To this very day, MS still ships Outlook, OE, and IE to be damn near wide open which is why email worms are still a massive problem.
Replying to my own post, but I was just reading a message on one of the security lists I monitor, and by one account, this worm went right through Norton's firewall even thought the firewall was configured to block it. (Note: I have not verified this claim.)
I've Never trusted windows based firewalls due to the fact that firewall vendors rely on the hooks that MS provides - if the hooks are not in the right place, the damage can be done before the firewall software sees it at all. In linux / bsd, the hooks are right there in the kernel, and you can be SURE that they are in the right place, and that there is no path around them (since you can view the source.)
I always recommend that Windows users use an external (non-windows based) firewall. There are Lots of cheap ones out now. I think you can get a soho model for under a hundred dollars. Many soho "routers" have firewalls built in. Even one of my old DSL modems from 4 years ago had one (although it was really primitive.) Zone Alarm is a great second level of defense, as it helps deal with rogue software like some spyware, but I would not rely on it alone to protect you.
Um, if you read -> comprehend -> post, then you would have assumed that he was SUGGESTING that you use win98 due to the fact that it is NOT vulnerable.
Of course then you have to deal with the fact that win98 is so unstable that it doesn't need a worm to crash - it does it all by itself.
Since this thing works by hitting the RPC services on port 135 and sometime 4444, this means that he had no firewall at all. What kind of idiot doesn't use any firewall? ESPECIALLY on a Windows box...
Patents can be selectivly enforced. IBM and MS are still partners (to a certain extent, and for the moment.) I wouldn't expect to see an IBM / MS patent war until after IBM has deemed that shipping windows with its servers is no longer something it needs or wants to do.
Ooh, that's correct. IBM did not want to get in the Linux distribution business which basically means that they didn't want to create and maintain their own VERSION of linux, but they do actually SHIP linux. IANAL, but I would assume that (by using IBM's own logic) that they are still subject to the terms of the GPL. Again, the source is out there, and IBM's been working with it. They can't claim that they didn't know.
I think you missed the point. RedHat spends a lot of money on things like kernel development. If they are spending more money on lawyers, that money can't be spent on kernel development. That hurts debian and slackware too.
While I hate to see ANYONE having to spend money on lawyers to defend Linux, I think that it's money well spent in this case. Hopefully it results in a financial penalty in damages as well as just stops SCO's behavior. After all, RedHat loses money when people are scared off Linux.
This suit will hopefully force SCO to put up or shut up.
hope people will think anything with it on it is authentic
Considering the graphic they show is a ticket, and considering the care given by your typical ticket taker who is probably ripping 5000 tickets that day, my guess is that they WOULD think it authentic. I mean, it's not like they have microscopes out there at the gate...
My guess is that MOST applications that MAY want to use this as a security measure wouldn't be putting the documents under intense scrutiny.
From Very recent personal experience (father-in-law's machine) Windows98se SUCKS with less than 64M. His machine had 32M, with a totally clean install from the Windows CD. Takes F o r e v e r to boot, and apps are very slow to load. Swapping like mad. Now he's at 96M (after I found some dusty old chips) and Much happier. Win2K really needs a minimum of 128M to be usable, and with 256M it's alright. I've got piles of 256M PC133 dimms, but these older machines can't use them.
Sure, memory is cheap but many of these older machines can't handle that much. We are also not talking PC100 ram here. Most stores don't even carry the older stuff like EDO anymore - it's special order and Much more expensive. I've had lots of problems trying to upgrade the ram in older boxes. Not as easy as it should be. They get flakey.
Um, Linux can run most flash sites, and supports java just fine. Some of the interactive flash doesn't work (disney kids) but it's rare to hit a site that needs that.
Second, if you are using OO, you probably are not using it to JUST print 100 page word documents. You are probably creating your OWN documents, which will print as you expect. Hell, MS WORD doesn't even print correctly half the time - you expect it to be perfect in a totally different application? If you want something to print exactly as it shows on the screen you should be using PDF anyway.
Not everyone buys into the upgrade-every-2-years game that MS pushes. Even though PC prices have come down, people just don't have a NEED to upgrade. You are also forgetting a HUGE market segment - schools. They are still using original IBM PC's from 1983 and some apple ]['s for christ sakes. Telling them to go buy 100 labs worth of new computers every 2 or 3 years is not gonna fly. They are Certainly not going to be dumping P233's any time soon. We can't even afford to pay the damn teachers.
That's true, but you don't NEED OO / and the full KDE environment. fvwm2 with abiword/gnumeric works just fine. You just need gnome base libraries - you don't need to be running the entire thing. Ditto for koffice.
It's quite easy to setup a modern linux box for email, letter writting, browsing the web for fairly low-end machines. Win98 running NOTHING uses about 40M (includes VM usage.) Win2K uses about 60M, with a lot more resident in RAM. (Don't have XP, but XP is based on 2K so my guess is that the numbers are close, if not MORE than 2K.) Debian Linux, unstable, with fvwm2 and a smattering of applets uses about 30M - better than win98, and half that of 2K.
It's going to be a LOT harder to get a decent performing setup with XP than Linux on low-end systems just due to the memory footprint of the base OS and windowing environment alone.
Probably since most don't hear the message due to the way autodialers work, and second probably because the message tells telemarketers to "hang up now." As I said in another message, it's been about 2 years and I have not received ONE telemarketing call after I installed it.
Nothing stops a telemarketer from pressing 1 and getting to me (other than the message telling them that they should hang up,) and so far in 2 years of using it, NONE has. From ~1000 telemarketing calls a year to ZERO. Hey, it works, that's all I can say.
Yeah, it's an off-the-shelf box. MANY companies make SOHO phone systems. On the low end, there is smething like the "VoicePro 206" that you can find fairly cheap on ebay, panasonic has the KXTA-624, and so on.
I just use standard analog phones with my unit - some decent 2.4G DSS cordless ones work great.
Nah, they are just fucking annoying. They also don't work well for screening in a house larger than a one-bedroom apartment.
I don't call anybody that screens all their calls with an answering machine. I really don't like being forced to wait for some long-assed message, and start to leave a message just to get a hold of someone.
Just get a REAL phone system that requires you to "press 5 to speak with blah" and transfers the call if they do. Zero telemarketing calls and it's not annoying as all fuck for the caller (they don't even have to wait for the full "press 5" message to play for it to work.)
No. The Telezappers actually don't work much anymore. The telemarketers know how to bypass that.
Autoattendant is the menuing system you hear when calling a business: "Prees 1 for this, 2 for that."
My message says "If you are a telemarketer, hang up now. Press 1 to speak to Amy or Walt". If they don't do anything, they get dumped to generic voice mail. If they press 2 they get transfered to my normal phones. If no one answers after 6 rings, it goes to our voicemail.
$80 / month? That's NUTS. I just get plain caller ID and use my phone system with auto-attendant. I get ZERO telemarketing calls now and don't need an extra $60 / month of crap to make it work. One time $120 investment.
Most telemarketing calls show "No Data". Unfortunatly, so do many legit calls. Caller ID is nice but not a solution to this problem.
I actually have a low-end office-style phone system at home. I just setup auto-attendant, and callers have to press "5" to get to me (the message tells them so.)
I get ZERO telemarketing calls now. None. No political calls, no charity, nothing. Before I put that system in, it was getting to 5 or so a day (usually around dinner time.) Family and friends thought it was strange, but after I tell them what it does and how it works, they all want one.
Looking at recent NANAE activity, and came up with this and this.
Sounds like your ISP still has some work to do.
You don't get listed in spews if you respond to spam complaints and TOS spammers. You get listed when you ignore complaints on a regular basis, or allow them to continue to spamvertize or spew for long periods of time before you take action (the "I'm warning you, you only have 300,000,000 more chances to stop spamming or we will terminate your service" syndrome.)
You also remain listed in spews AFTER you clean up for as long as it took you to clean up. If it took you a year to get around to clean up spammers, you are going to get listed in spews for a year after they are gone. After all, many poorly behaving ISP's just let the spammers right back on after getting de-listed. There are also several levels of spews listings. It looked at one point as though they were delisted, and then re-listed.
Bottom line is that there are THOUSANDS of good hosting companies. If being listed in spews isn't a big deal to you, stay where you are. If it is, you have LOTS of options.
First, you Clearly have a reading comprehention problem. Read my prior message again. Slowly. Maybe several times.
Second, procmail is fucking easy. It comes with lots of examples. Someone implementing a procmail script doesn't even need to fully understand procmail, just cut and paste an example tweeking a setting here or there. Procmail is a solution for anyone that is willing to spend 10 minutes figuring out how something works. Considering how much time people spend with email over a year, this is NOTHING.
Have you re-read my original message yet? Did you find the part where I said that these other applications were actually procmail scritps? No? Just the part where "I" did it with a procmail script? Huh. Maybe your getting better.
Yeah, lots of drivel at that link, but it misses the point. Completely.
Don't get me wrong, I use spamassasin too, and it does work, but it also doesn't solve the problem. If an ISP harbors spammers, they have ZERO incentive to stop. None. Nada.
Spews RBL on the other hand INTENDS to be used to block mail outright. It will even block legit mail, again by intent. The idea is to piss off an ISP's legit customers who should be going back to their ISP and DEMAND that they get spammers off their network. If an ISP refuses (and therefor remains listed at spews) then anyone that continues to use that ISP is indirectly supporting spam.
You don't get listed in spews for an occasional spam - you get listed when you refuse to get rid of spammers.
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Oh, it's pretty clear what SCO is trying to do is claim that the GPL is invalid, therefore the fact that they were ALSO distributing linux is moot. It's firing back at IBM's and others claims that SCO has given up all rights to any IP based upon that fact that they distributed Linux under the GPL. And it's not gonna work.
Agree. Couldn't MS with it's infinate $$$ make the damn thing listen to 127.0.0.1 ONLY by default????? This is Very common in the Unix world. For example, squid ships so that you have to specifically open the thing up before it listens to anything other than localhost. Ditto for email (on many distributions anyway.)
This is yet another case where MS just doesn't "get it." The common wisdom (for Many Many years) has been to be secure by default, and open things up as needed. RedHat used to be bad about this too, but at least they learned. To this very day, MS still ships Outlook, OE, and IE to be damn near wide open which is why email worms are still a massive problem.
Replying to my own post, but I was just reading a message on one of the security lists I monitor, and by one account, this worm went right through Norton's firewall even thought the firewall was configured to block it. (Note: I have not verified this claim.)
I've Never trusted windows based firewalls due to the fact that firewall vendors rely on the hooks that MS provides - if the hooks are not in the right place, the damage can be done before the firewall software sees it at all. In linux / bsd, the hooks are right there in the kernel, and you can be SURE that they are in the right place, and that there is no path around them (since you can view the source.)
I always recommend that Windows users use an external (non-windows based) firewall. There are Lots of cheap ones out now. I think you can get a soho model for under a hundred dollars. Many soho "routers" have firewalls built in. Even one of my old DSL modems from 4 years ago had one (although it was really primitive.) Zone Alarm is a great second level of defense, as it helps deal with rogue software like some spyware, but I would not rely on it alone to protect you.
Um, if you read -> comprehend -> post, then you would have assumed that he was SUGGESTING that you use win98 due to the fact that it is NOT vulnerable.
Of course then you have to deal with the fact that win98 is so unstable that it doesn't need a worm to crash - it does it all by itself.
Since this thing works by hitting the RPC services on port 135 and sometime 4444, this means that he had no firewall at all. What kind of idiot doesn't use any firewall? ESPECIALLY on a Windows box...
Sigh. Some people are just ASKING to get hacked.
Patents can be selectivly enforced. IBM and MS are still partners (to a certain extent, and for the moment.) I wouldn't expect to see an IBM / MS patent war until after IBM has deemed that shipping windows with its servers is no longer something it needs or wants to do.
Ooh, that's correct. IBM did not want to get in the Linux distribution business which basically means that they didn't want to create and maintain their own VERSION of linux, but they do actually SHIP linux. IANAL, but I would assume that (by using IBM's own logic) that they are still subject to the terms of the GPL. Again, the source is out there, and IBM's been working with it. They can't claim that they didn't know.
Note: the original article I replied to stated: "So use Debian or Slackware or.... whatever."
Someone modded his statement as a troll, and that's unfair. He may not have fully understood the issue, but it doesn't make him a troll...
I think you missed the point. RedHat spends a lot of money on things like kernel development. If they are spending more money on lawyers, that money can't be spent on kernel development. That hurts debian and slackware too.
While I hate to see ANYONE having to spend money on lawyers to defend Linux, I think that it's money well spent in this case. Hopefully it results in a financial penalty in damages as well as just stops SCO's behavior. After all, RedHat loses money when people are scared off Linux.
This suit will hopefully force SCO to put up or shut up.
hope people will think anything with it on it is authentic
Considering the graphic they show is a ticket, and considering the care given by your typical ticket taker who is probably ripping 5000 tickets that day, my guess is that they WOULD think it authentic. I mean, it's not like they have microscopes out there at the gate...
My guess is that MOST applications that MAY want to use this as a security measure wouldn't be putting the documents under intense scrutiny.
From Very recent personal experience (father-in-law's machine) Windows98se SUCKS with less than 64M. His machine had 32M, with a totally clean install from the Windows CD. Takes F o r e v e r to boot, and apps are very slow to load. Swapping like mad. Now he's at 96M (after I found some dusty old chips) and Much happier. Win2K really needs a minimum of 128M to be usable, and with 256M it's alright. I've got piles of 256M PC133 dimms, but these older machines can't use them.
Sure, memory is cheap but many of these older machines can't handle that much. We are also not talking PC100 ram here. Most stores don't even carry the older stuff like EDO anymore - it's special order and Much more expensive. I've had lots of problems trying to upgrade the ram in older boxes. Not as easy as it should be. They get flakey.
Um, Linux can run most flash sites, and supports java just fine. Some of the interactive flash doesn't work (disney kids) but it's rare to hit a site that needs that.
Second, if you are using OO, you probably are not using it to JUST print 100 page word documents. You are probably creating your OWN documents, which will print as you expect. Hell, MS WORD doesn't even print correctly half the time - you expect it to be perfect in a totally different application? If you want something to print exactly as it shows on the screen you should be using PDF anyway.
Not everyone buys into the upgrade-every-2-years game that MS pushes. Even though PC prices have come down, people just don't have a NEED to upgrade. You are also forgetting a HUGE market segment - schools. They are still using original IBM PC's from 1983 and some apple ]['s for christ sakes. Telling them to go buy 100 labs worth of new computers every 2 or 3 years is not gonna fly. They are Certainly not going to be dumping P233's any time soon. We can't even afford to pay the damn teachers.
That's true, but you don't NEED OO / and the full KDE environment. fvwm2 with abiword/gnumeric works just fine. You just need gnome base libraries - you don't need to be running the entire thing. Ditto for koffice.
It's quite easy to setup a modern linux box for email, letter writting, browsing the web for fairly low-end machines. Win98 running NOTHING uses about 40M (includes VM usage.) Win2K uses about 60M, with a lot more resident in RAM. (Don't have XP, but XP is based on 2K so my guess is that the numbers are close, if not MORE than 2K.) Debian Linux, unstable, with fvwm2 and a smattering of applets uses about 30M - better than win98, and half that of 2K.
It's going to be a LOT harder to get a decent performing setup with XP than Linux on low-end systems just due to the memory footprint of the base OS and windowing environment alone.
OO is a memory pig. Won't argue that.
Yeah, but do they taste good?
Probably since most don't hear the message due to the way autodialers work, and second probably because the message tells telemarketers to "hang up now." As I said in another message, it's been about 2 years and I have not received ONE telemarketing call after I installed it.
Nothing stops a telemarketer from pressing 1 and getting to me (other than the message telling them that they should hang up,) and so far in 2 years of using it, NONE has. From ~1000 telemarketing calls a year to ZERO. Hey, it works, that's all I can say.
Yeah, it's an off-the-shelf box. MANY companies make SOHO phone systems. On the low end, there is smething like the "VoicePro 206" that you can find fairly cheap on ebay, panasonic has the KXTA-624, and so on.
I just use standard analog phones with my unit - some decent 2.4G DSS cordless ones work great.
Nah, they are just fucking annoying. They also don't work well for screening in a house larger than a one-bedroom apartment.
I don't call anybody that screens all their calls with an answering machine. I really don't like being forced to wait for some long-assed message, and start to leave a message just to get a hold of someone.
Just get a REAL phone system that requires you to "press 5 to speak with blah" and transfers the call if they do. Zero telemarketing calls and it's not annoying as all fuck for the caller (they don't even have to wait for the full "press 5" message to play for it to work.)
No. The Telezappers actually don't work much anymore. The telemarketers know how to bypass that.
Autoattendant is the menuing system you hear when calling a business: "Prees 1 for this, 2 for that."
My message says "If you are a telemarketer, hang up now. Press 1 to speak to Amy or Walt". If they don't do anything, they get dumped to generic voice mail. If they press 2 they get transfered to my normal phones. If no one answers after 6 rings, it goes to our voicemail.
$80 / month? That's NUTS. I just get plain caller ID and use my phone system with auto-attendant. I get ZERO telemarketing calls now and don't need an extra $60 / month of crap to make it work. One time $120 investment.
Most telemarketing calls show "No Data". Unfortunatly, so do many legit calls. Caller ID is nice but not a solution to this problem.
I actually have a low-end office-style phone system at home. I just setup auto-attendant, and callers have to press "5" to get to me (the message tells them so.)
I get ZERO telemarketing calls now. None. No political calls, no charity, nothing. Before I put that system in, it was getting to 5 or so a day (usually around dinner time.) Family and friends thought it was strange, but after I tell them what it does and how it works, they all want one.
Looking at recent NANAE activity, and came up with this and this.
Sounds like your ISP still has some work to do.
You don't get listed in spews if you respond to spam complaints and TOS spammers. You get listed when you ignore complaints on a regular basis, or allow them to continue to spamvertize or spew for long periods of time before you take action (the "I'm warning you, you only have 300,000,000 more chances to stop spamming or we will terminate your service" syndrome.)
You also remain listed in spews AFTER you clean up for as long as it took you to clean up. If it took you a year to get around to clean up spammers, you are going to get listed in spews for a year after they are gone. After all, many poorly behaving ISP's just let the spammers right back on after getting de-listed. There are also several levels of spews listings. It looked at one point as though they were delisted, and then re-listed.
Bottom line is that there are THOUSANDS of good hosting companies. If being listed in spews isn't a big deal to you, stay where you are. If it is, you have LOTS of options.
First, you Clearly have a reading comprehention problem. Read my prior message again. Slowly. Maybe several times.
Second, procmail is fucking easy. It comes with lots of examples. Someone implementing a procmail script doesn't even need to fully understand procmail, just cut and paste an example tweeking a setting here or there. Procmail is a solution for anyone that is willing to spend 10 minutes figuring out how something works. Considering how much time people spend with email over a year, this is NOTHING.
Have you re-read my original message yet? Did you find the part where I said that these other applications were actually procmail scritps? No? Just the part where "I" did it with a procmail script? Huh. Maybe your getting better.
Yeah, lots of drivel at that link, but it misses the point. Completely.
Don't get me wrong, I use spamassasin too, and it does work, but it also doesn't solve the problem. If an ISP harbors spammers, they have ZERO incentive to stop. None. Nada.
Spews RBL on the other hand INTENDS to be used to block mail outright. It will even block legit mail, again by intent. The idea is to piss off an ISP's legit customers who should be going back to their ISP and DEMAND that they get spammers off their network. If an ISP refuses (and therefor remains listed at spews) then anyone that continues to use that ISP is indirectly supporting spam.
You don't get listed in spews for an occasional spam - you get listed when you refuse to get rid of spammers.