Sorry I posted twice, I thought I had logged in, but I had not. Ignore my AC post.
Large Profits DOES NOT equal properly operating markets!
Large Profits DOES NOT maximize the function for GNP.
'Simple economics', my ass.
The MOST efficent market situation is where NOBODY makes ANY profits. Businesses generate just enough revenue to cover the costs of inputs (labor+capital).
Simple macroeconomics.
Your interpretation of the software industry is simplistic, as well.
Software as a product firms MAY loose value in a free software world.
Software as a SERVICE firms will properly gain a great deal of value.
If you only have a fixed amount of money, X to spend on IT, then it would be preferable to use free software, and spend a larger distribution of your money on labor (service/support).
I'm ABSOLUTELY, 100% SURE that software as a service firms contribute more to the GNP per $1 revenue generated than software as a product firms.
Sorry if I sound bitchy, but when you say something like this: "Anything that reduces profits is, by definition bad. Anything that reduces profits reduces the GNP which is, by definition, a social evil."
It's hard to believe that you are not a -1 Troll
One of the axims of modern economics is that you should not equate factors like 'profits' with normative judgements.
But, As an American citizen.... Beyond all that.....
Those are MY tax payer dollars funding your nation....
Why should I give two shits whether or not the world has a Jewish Refuge? The so-called 'Zionist' dream.
Fight it out. Have a genocidal pogrom, if thats what you want.
I don't care anymore. I want peace as much as the next guy, but if Israelis are going to go on making stupid arguments like 'Palestinians are members of Egypt/Jordan', than I don't care.
And I sure as hell don't want to be blowing my money on that kinda crap. Spend your own pretty cash fighting wars---
My taxes should be spent elsewhere.
If you want to play nice...You can have my money.
If you can't figure out how to have peace, then screw you.
Take this with a grain of salt, I'm an Iranian, but I don't live there.
I suspect that MANY individuals will try and take GPL'ed software, roll their own version, maybe change a title screen or something, and sell it.
Unfortunately, since everyone else is more than willing to 'steal' their 'stolen' software, they'll simply copy it, and redistribute it again.
There is very little chance than an Iranian corporation or governmental organization will co-opt some code and roll their own product line out of it------
Really, it won't be very different than most of the GPL violations that occur in the U.S., except that there is much less of a financial incentive to do it there.
To be honest, I'm not sure that you aren't out of date, either......
PPC simply isn't a real choice for many.
Apple could not ramp up to 10% marketshare, not anytime soon.......
I mean, they could not physically ship that many systems, nor adequately support them.
Beyond that, if they did have the infrastructure, it would lead to a holy price war from the x86 players like you would not believe (watch Dell literally give machines away).
x86-64 looks like it will be the mainstream future--eventually, Yamhill will come to fruition, and Intel will start shipping x86-64 processors.
I'd build a PPC system if I could get the parts at a reasonable price, just like I would try out OS X on my x86-64 box, if such a thing was possible.
But neither of these things is in the forseeable future.
What I would like to see is generic PPC boxes going out the door----
They don't have to be able to run OS X---linux or a BSD will do just fine----
I'd totally grab one of those to play with, and perhaps to serve stuff with.....Don't know that it would be cheaper, but I like my server boxen to have crazy pedigree....
Yes....In this case, the court is exactly the way we want this to go.
IBM will splatter SCO. No doubt about it. Doesn't matter who the judge is, or how many appeals.
IBM has more money, IBM has better lawyers, and IBM has had all the cards for the past 15 years (They have ALWAYS had access to the SCO source, the AIX source, and Linux source).
No chance of a SCO victory---none whatsoever.
And this BS they are pulling about discovery? If they keep up these shennangians, the Judge is going to be mighty pissed at them.
Why the hell are we so reactive to problems and not proactive? Why dont we make an entire switch to renewable energy sources within 5 years? Why not put in the infrastructure for good internet services NOW?
There are two reasons that we are extremely reactive to problems.
Mind you, I'm saying this as a libertarian---an I consider myself VERY capitalist. a) It doesn't always make sense to overbuild. Why didn't they start deploying a 100 megabit fiber residential network 5 years ago? 10 years ago?
Because the price would have been WAY too much.
As time passes, the cost of supply collapses. Eventually, with the help of financing, it becomes more reasonable. You need to keep the cost of various needs in mind when evaluating where you spend your money (because from a municipality, or corporation's point of view, the money WILL be spent---save money, and you'll go the way of the dodo)(not always true, but often enough).
b) American corporations are generally extremely conservative when it comes to 'future-proofing'. Why? Because it doesn't really help your stock value.
It should, given that mutual fund managers SHOULD be look at longterm prospects. But they don't, they are cattle just as much as the average Joe Sixpack investor.
In some other nations (such as Japan, for instance), greater value is place upon long-term viability of a corporation.
That's why you see DSL providers rolling out 26/43 Mbps service there.
Here, on the other hand, the risk associated with such a venture would prevent you from getting any financing.
I don't agree with it---It's because of the sorry state of the 'professional' investment industry. And I blame that on the incompentance of the fund managers and investment bankers (I can't remember the link, but I remember reading that the market has outperformed most so-called 'professionals' over the last few years).
Many American corporations would love to get into that sort of bleeding-edge technology---its much easier to work on a five-year project that being in a constant-crises reactive modem.
Unfortunately, you can't get financing for that longer-term stuff, unless you have government loans or guarantees.
This does have the possibility of change, however. Personally, I think we are seeing the early beginnings of American DSL/cable providers panicking over the possibility that the FCC will 'deregulate'(re-regulate) in some fashion that will allow a foreign startup to roll out vdsl in the U.S.
IBM is the mothership that all motherships dock to.
If they need to raise money for a legal defense fund, they'll hit up these mammoth sources first.
While I agree with you that the solidarity of us little Linux users is valuable, there are far better ways to contribute than by donating a couple bucks---
Instead, tell people you know (especially not technically literate people) about what kind of crap SCO is trying to pull.
There are a lot of us 'little' Linux users out there. We can raise quite a bit of awareness---
I think it is because of us 'little' Linux users that a fair number of mainstream media source have been rating SCO's chances as rather poor.
SCO does not have genuine IP claims on code in Linux.
Not one iota.
Why do I say that?
I have no evidence to suggest that it is try, except SCO's word on it.
Everyone, and their mother, has asked SCO to reveal the evidence.
IBM is getting sued over it, and SCO will not even describe the infringement.
Beyond that, Caldera distributed the code under the GPL.
Read Groklaw, and you'll feel the same way about it.
If SCO had actual evidence of infringement, they would play it up big time.
Why? Because they would be able to easily drive IBM to settle---IBM has no business being in bullheaded lawsuits, they would license any IP that was actually stolen.
Remember, IBM has full access to ALL of SCO's source tree, and IBM has full access to AIX's source, and the Linux source.
IBM already knows what is in all three source trees.
As far as I am concered, SCO is not entitiled to have their side of the argument heard, because they are doing their best to spew BullShit(TM) in order to drive up their stock price.
If SCO want's their side of the argument to be heard, they need to put up, or shutup.....
A major stake is generally considered around 10% of the company.
If you are planning to purchase that much, you can generally leverage your capital in order to get some of that loaned to you---
One could possibly by 10% of SCO with 2-3 million.
A controlling stake, however, would be impossible. Over 50% of the company is held by either executives or the Canopus group---most of the company's stock is not public issue.
Oddly enough, Diebold also makes ATMs. I wonder why the same accountability standards weren't used for the voting machines? Should that be: I wonder if the same accountability standards were used for the ATMs?
Ummm---is it standard practice for Trolls to announce that they are trolling with:
"Troll troll troll!"
If so, it should get much easier to filter that stuff out.
You Have Been Misinformed, my friend. There are many problems with Windows that go outside its popularity.
Like, for example, the way IIS, the browser, and the kitchensink all run in kernel space.
MS made quite a few questionable design decisions.
Like making the default user administrator.
It has been fairly well established that although there might be more attempts at developing linux viruses if linux was more popular, better design choices would render it less vulnerable.
Not invulnerable. Just nowhere near as bad as the crap that comes out of MS.
They (Packet8) currently only support their smallest box (1 line per box), the DTA310, but they claim to be rolling out much bigger stuff in the near future (8x8 makes huge iPBX systems)
No, the correct way to push for IPv6 is to say, "I want my cell phone to talk to my refrigrator. Actually, I want everyone one of my electrical devices to have a public addressable IP"
Though, seriously, IPv6 will make IP addresses MUCH cheaper. Free, for all intents and purpose.
Slashdot Mirror
Not just the 90's :)
We've done this a lot before....
Remember the bozos that invented 'Military Keyensianism'
Heck, the FDR's New Deal, although created to build new works, often employed tens of thousands of people in redundant projects.
Sorry I posted twice, I thought I had logged in, but I had not. Ignore my AC post.
Large Profits DOES NOT equal properly operating markets!
Large Profits DOES NOT maximize the function for GNP.
'Simple economics', my ass.
The MOST efficent market situation is where NOBODY makes ANY profits. Businesses generate just enough revenue to cover the costs of inputs (labor+capital).
Simple macroeconomics.
Your interpretation of the software industry is simplistic, as well.
Software as a product firms MAY loose value in a free software world.
Software as a SERVICE firms will properly gain a great deal of value.
If you only have a fixed amount of money, X to spend on IT, then it would be preferable to use free software, and spend a larger distribution of your money on labor (service/support).
I'm ABSOLUTELY, 100% SURE that software as a service firms contribute more to the GNP per $1 revenue generated than software as a product firms.
Sorry if I sound bitchy, but when you say something like this: "Anything that reduces profits is, by definition bad. Anything that reduces profits reduces the GNP which is, by definition, a social evil."
It's hard to believe that you are not a -1 Troll
One of the axims of modern economics is that you should not equate factors like 'profits' with normative judgements.
But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt
But,
As an American citizen....
Beyond all that.....
Those are MY tax payer dollars funding your nation....
Why should I give two shits whether or not the world has a Jewish Refuge? The so-called 'Zionist' dream.
Fight it out. Have a genocidal pogrom, if thats what you want.
I don't care anymore. I want peace as much as the next guy, but if Israelis are going to go on making stupid arguments like 'Palestinians are members of Egypt/Jordan', than I don't care.
And I sure as hell don't want to be blowing my money on that kinda crap. Spend your own pretty cash fighting wars---
My taxes should be spent elsewhere.
If you want to play nice...You can have my money.
If you can't figure out how to have peace, then screw you.
Take this with a grain of salt, I'm an Iranian, but I don't live there.
I suspect that MANY individuals will try and take GPL'ed software, roll their own version, maybe change a title screen or something, and sell it.
Unfortunately, since everyone else is more than willing to 'steal' their 'stolen' software, they'll simply copy it, and redistribute it again.
There is very little chance than an Iranian corporation or governmental organization will co-opt some code and roll their own product line out of it------
Really, it won't be very different than most of the GPL violations that occur in the U.S., except that there is much less of a financial incentive to do it there.
To be honest, I'm not sure that you aren't out of date, either......
PPC simply isn't a real choice for many.
Apple could not ramp up to 10% marketshare, not anytime soon.......
I mean, they could not physically ship that many systems, nor adequately support them.
Beyond that, if they did have the infrastructure, it would lead to a holy price war from the x86 players like you would not believe (watch Dell literally give machines away).
x86-64 looks like it will be the mainstream future--eventually, Yamhill will come to fruition, and Intel will start shipping x86-64 processors.
I'd build a PPC system if I could get the parts at a reasonable price, just like I would try out OS X on my x86-64 box, if such a thing was possible.
But neither of these things is in the forseeable future.
What I would like to see is generic PPC boxes going out the door----
They don't have to be able to run OS X---linux or a BSD will do just fine----
I'd totally grab one of those to play with, and perhaps to serve stuff with.....Don't know that it would be cheaper, but I like my server boxen to have crazy pedigree....
I've been trying to short SCOX since it was in the low twenties.
There just isn't enough of a 'float' for brokers to allow you to short it.
Duh, I guess. No brokerage in their right mind would loan out too many of this craptacular stock, its not like they want to loose money.
The short pressure on this stock is extreme---everyone is trying to short it.
Is it possible to have punch cards with enough space for a stamp and an address label?
:)
:)
Just drop'em in the mail, en masse
Give each card a random code
Send a 100,000 page book with that describes the proper sequence of random codes
Yes :)
;-)
We can burn, rape and pillage as much as we want.
Steal, lie, and murder!
Genocide, baby......
As long as you have faith, you get to go to heaven anyways....
Isn't it good, to be a christian?
Note: I'm not......So I'd better be good
2 words:
Punch Cards
They ARE machine readable, after all. . . .
Yes....In this case, the court is exactly the way we want this to go.
IBM will splatter SCO. No doubt about it. Doesn't matter who the judge is, or how many appeals.
IBM has more money, IBM has better lawyers, and IBM has had all the cards for the past 15 years (They have ALWAYS had access to the SCO source, the AIX source, and Linux source).
No chance of a SCO victory---none whatsoever.
And this BS they are pulling about discovery? If they keep up these shennangians, the Judge is going to be mighty pissed at them.
Why the hell are we so reactive to problems and not proactive? Why dont we make an entire switch to renewable energy sources within 5 years? Why not put in the infrastructure for good internet services NOW?
There are two reasons that we are extremely reactive to problems.
Mind you, I'm saying this as a libertarian---an I consider myself VERY capitalist.
a) It doesn't always make sense to overbuild. Why didn't they start deploying a 100 megabit fiber residential network 5 years ago? 10 years ago?
Because the price would have been WAY too much.
As time passes, the cost of supply collapses. Eventually, with the help of financing, it becomes more reasonable.
You need to keep the cost of various needs in mind when evaluating where you spend your money (because from a municipality, or corporation's point of view, the money WILL be spent---save money, and you'll go the way of the dodo)(not always true, but often enough).
b) American corporations are generally extremely conservative when it comes to 'future-proofing'. Why? Because it doesn't really help your stock value.
It should, given that mutual fund managers SHOULD be look at longterm prospects. But they don't, they are cattle just as much as the average Joe Sixpack investor.
In some other nations (such as Japan, for instance), greater value is place upon long-term viability of a corporation.
That's why you see DSL providers rolling out 26/43 Mbps service there.
Here, on the other hand, the risk associated with such a venture would prevent you from getting any financing.
I don't agree with it---It's because of the sorry state of the 'professional' investment industry. And I blame that on the incompentance of the fund managers and investment bankers (I can't remember the link, but I remember reading that the market has outperformed most so-called 'professionals' over the last few years).
Many American corporations would love to get into that sort of bleeding-edge technology---its much easier to work on a five-year project that being in a constant-crises reactive modem.
Unfortunately, you can't get financing for that longer-term stuff, unless you have government loans or guarantees.
This does have the possibility of change, however. Personally, I think we are seeing the early beginnings of American DSL/cable providers panicking over the possibility that the FCC will 'deregulate'(re-regulate) in some fashion that will allow a foreign startup to roll out vdsl in the U.S.
Trust me, they don't need it yet.
OSDL is big.
The RedHat defense fund is big.
IBM is the mothership that all motherships dock to.
If they need to raise money for a legal defense fund, they'll hit up these mammoth sources first.
While I agree with you that the solidarity of us little Linux users is valuable, there are far better ways to contribute than by donating a couple bucks---
Instead, tell people you know (especially not technically literate people) about what kind of crap SCO is trying to pull.
There are a lot of us 'little' Linux users out there. We can raise quite a bit of awareness---
I think it is because of us 'little' Linux users that a fair number of mainstream media source have been rating SCO's chances as rather poor.
Lets keep up the good-work....
No, no they don't.
SCO does not have genuine IP claims on code in Linux.
Not one iota.
Why do I say that?
I have no evidence to suggest that it is try, except SCO's word on it.
Everyone, and their mother, has asked SCO to reveal the evidence.
IBM is getting sued over it, and SCO will not even describe the infringement.
Beyond that, Caldera distributed the code under the GPL.
Read Groklaw, and you'll feel the same way about it.
If SCO had actual evidence of infringement, they would play it up big time.
Why? Because they would be able to easily drive IBM to settle---IBM has no business being in bullheaded lawsuits, they would license any IP that was actually stolen.
Remember, IBM has full access to ALL of SCO's source tree, and IBM has full access to AIX's source, and the Linux source.
IBM already knows what is in all three source trees.
As far as I am concered, SCO is not entitiled to have their side of the argument heard, because they are doing their best to spew BullShit(TM) in order to drive up their stock price.
If SCO want's their side of the argument to be heard, they need to put up, or shutup.....
Show us some code, SCO---Or die!
Microsoft has the most money?
Nonsense---you forget who they are fighting.
Microsoft is a 400 pound gorilla.
IBM is a 12-ton space monster that shoots laser beams out of its eyes.
IBM is a FAR bigger company, with a MUCH more experienced legal team.
And Microsoft isn't fighting IBM directly, they are doing it (if at all) through a proxy.
SCO is more like a 75-pound hyena. Mean bite, makes a lot of noise.
But IBM is scary. Really, really scary.
Quiet scary, you know? Creeping-up-and-splattering-you in one move scary.
You sound knowledgable, so I won't flame you.
.
Open source != Open Access
I develop an Open Source application.
I refuse to accept ANY submissions to my application.
Anyone can look at the code that I produce, anyone can use the code that I produce, but. . .
I don't accept any submissions to my source tree.
Open source is not some magical, collaberative coding software. It is not an Integrated Development Environment.
Its just a license whereby I agree to share my source code with the world.
Microsoft abusing its monopoly on operating systems in order to conquer another field of software?
Say it ain't so.
This is a good opportunity to watch them do what they love from beginning to end.
A major stake?
Or a controlling stake?
A major stake is generally considered around 10% of the company.
If you are planning to purchase that much, you can generally leverage your capital in order to get some of that loaned to you---
One could possibly by 10% of SCO with 2-3 million.
A controlling stake, however, would be impossible. Over 50% of the company is held by either executives or the Canopus group---most of the company's stock is not public issue.
Hehehe :)
;-)
I say we do it with lawsuits!
Not necessairly because I think MS is wrong (though I probably do).
I don't even know that I care that the punishment 'repairs' the market failure.
I just want them to feel the pain of wave after wave of faceless horrors...I mean lawyers...biting their ankles....I mean negotiating a settlement.
You forget.
Say it with me now: "Counter-suit"
IBM, if it does steamroll them, will OWN SCO outright.
Because SCO will not be able to afford the massive damages IBM will claim.
Let alone will they be able to get out of the patent infringment IBM will claim, nor the injunctions against selling any Unix related product.
Oddly enough, Diebold also makes ATMs. I wonder why the same accountability standards weren't used for the voting machines?
Should that be:
I wonder if the same accountability standards were used for the ATMs?
Perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree...But....
Its not JUST that MS makes the default user---
It is also that Windows runs a ton of stupid, random crap in kernel space.
Like Windows Media Player. Like Internet Explorer. Like Outlook. Like a ton of office stuff.
None of that belongs in kernel space.
Ummm---is it standard practice for Trolls to announce that they are trolling with:
"Troll troll troll!"
If so, it should get much easier to filter that stuff out.
You Have Been Misinformed, my friend.
There are many problems with Windows that go outside its popularity.
Like, for example, the way IIS, the browser, and the kitchensink all run in kernel space.
MS made quite a few questionable design decisions.
Like making the default user administrator.
It has been fairly well established that although there might be more attempts at developing linux viruses if linux was more popular, better design choices would render it less vulnerable.
Not invulnerable. Just nowhere near as bad as the crap that comes out of MS.
You were more right than you knew the first time.
Who owns Packet8? 8x8.
What does 8x8 manufacture?
VoIP equipment.
They (Packet8) currently only support their smallest box (1 line per box), the DTA310, but they claim to be rolling out much bigger stuff in the near future (8x8 makes huge iPBX systems)
No, the correct way to push for IPv6 is to say, "I want my cell phone to talk to my refrigrator. Actually, I want everyone one of my electrical devices to have a public addressable IP"
Though, seriously, IPv6 will make IP addresses MUCH cheaper. Free, for all intents and purpose.
Thank you!
;-)
That was information I really wanted!
I think I might have to stop on by #debian.
I've always been fascinated by it, but I managed to botch the install twice, and gave up.
Perhaps I can find someone who is willing to hold my hand through it