The cost of living is insane out there. There are great engineers all over the world.
Including other parts of the US. While SV is an amazing collection of talent (not everyone there, but enough) it's also one of the most provincial places I've ever seen. The idea that good talent can be found elsewhere in the country, at better prices no less, never seems to occur to anyone.
The reason people pay less for apartments in high rises
Not a valid generalization. In Manhattan the highrises are often the premium buildings. I've also lived in both garden apartments and a "highrise" (only five stories, but a real building instead of a two story pile of kindling). The real building was way better. The head of my bed was on the other side of the wall from a baby's crib, and I never heard that kid once.
No, NIMBYs and ridiculous land-use laws are driving up prices. If we added as many new apts as the market demands using the amazing technological innovation that is the elevator, we wouldn't see the prices we do.
Hear, hear! I get tired of people complaining that they can't hire enough people in SV. The obvious reason is that it's too expensive to live there, and the obvious solution is higher density. There must be some zoning and regulation in SV that keeps that from happening, which annoys me even more. I'm not anti-suburb at all. I've lived in them by choice almost my whole life. But you can't have your nice little suburban enclave and then complain you can't get enough people. Make up your mind.
I guess it sucks if you don't like it. It is everywhere. Personally I love it, although a lot of people think it tastes like soap. They should have a cilantro free side of the menu or something. Maybe a new restaurant, "Cilantro Optional".
I'm not sure why another posted was complaining about restaurants in SJ, or the South Bay in general.
My experience as a frequent visitor is that while there are definitely good places, there are also a surprising number of mediocre to poor ones. If you live there, or ask a local with decent tastes, you'll do well. If you walk into a random place because you have no other information, your odds of hitting something decent are much less than other areas I visit. I have no idea why.
Except for the one whose last H1-B re-up is over, and now his kids, having grown up in the US, have to go back to India. Yes, he's pissed, but they'll send a new H1-B guy to replace him, so we just are throwing out a capable person and his family for stupid bureaucratic reasons
I have zero sympathy for that guy. He came here on a guest worker visa that he knew perfectly well was good for a maximum of six years. Now he's upset because the visa actually meant what it said? As for "throwing out a capable person", if they'd hired an American (LOL, Tata hire an American!) then there would be no reason for that person to leave. Finally what you call "stupid bureaucratic reasons" are better known as visa conditions (clearly stated before he ever came here).
You have a good point. Instead of a protest sign or a bumper sticker that demands congress do something, I should get one that demands they do nothing. I'd probably be able to sell a lot of them too.
I have friends with at least 10 companies in SF and the valley that are having similar difficulties hiring.
Arguendo I'll accept your anecdotal evidence that the employment situation in the Bay Area is good for employees. I'll even assume that, contrary to common practice, you and your buddies don't discriminate based on age, etc. In so far as US guest worker policy is concerned, my response is "so what". Contrary to the provincialism so common in SV and SF, they are but one small part of the United States. The US should not change guest worker policy based on the desires of some people in one small area. If companies cannot find enough employees at a price they're willing to pay in SV and SF, they can start up or branch out to other parts of the country, where applicants are more plentiful and salaries are lower. There are many smaller tech enclaves in the country.
If anything, one recent study suggests, the growth of immigrant workers in American companies helps younger American technical workers — more of them are hired and at higher-paying jobs — but has no noticeable consequences, good or bad, on older workers.
I doubt reporters read these studies they cite in any detail, probably just getting a brief summary from somebody who supposedly has. In all fairness though the article does begin and end with a discussion of age discrimination, albeit in that anecdotal human interest style beloved of most reporters. All in all it's not a bad article. There are certainly many points I'd refute, but it's hardly mindless cheerleading for H-1B's.
I can say with certainty that the H1Bs are not displacing anyone in NYC. We are all desperately trying to hire competent engineers.
Throw more dead presidents at them - people will do almost anything for enough money. Surely a city full of self-described capitalists should understand that concept, or does that only apply when the market favors them? Like the bankers who were all for capitalism and rugged individualism until they asked the government to bail their sorry asses out, employers facing rising tech salaries go running to nanny government to help them. Wah, we don't wanna pay more for the hired help, it might cut into our multi-million dollar bonuses! Quick, we need to import more cheap labor.
America does really not have enough Electrical, Mechanical and Civil (maybe more disciplines, but these are the ones I have close friends in) engineers.
Even if you were out of the market for 10+ years (I had a male friend who decided to raise his daughters at home instead of the stereotypical mother doing it...and he was able to come straight back in.
What year was that?
In the big tech centers
Specifically which big tech centers are you talking about?
This makes it sound like they had to dig through a lot of studies to find one that supported their belief.
I doubt they bother. It's so much easier to pull a study from one's posterior, or call up your favorite lobbyists paid by tech billionaires. 2+2=5? No problem. How many studies and experts do you want?
Actually, if you need citations for this, you're thinking critically.
If you don't think many citations have been posted here in the past, you're being deliberately obtuse. For starters Google "Norman Matloff" - hours of fun reading. I used to post specific links and quotes, but at this point it's ridiculous. "Prove it" is a zombie line, killed a thousand times and still coming back.
If you had any understanding of what's being discussed here, you'd know that people are complaining about guest worker programs, not immigration programs.
I guess Canada will lead the way
Lead the way in what, Ph.D.'s driving cabs?
America devolves into a cesspool of stupid white inbreds
News flash: America is not a "white" country. The fastest growing "racial" group is Hispanics. Even without any immigration it won't be long before "white" people are not a majority in this country, and anybody with half a brain doesn't give a damn one way or the other.
I also find this obsession with artificial constructs like "race" to be offensive. Roll back the effects of Bacon's Rebellion. The whole concept of race was always a bunch of bull used in a divide and conquer strategy to keep the peasants from revolting. It has no other significance or meaning.
You mean there's an opposition party? Wow. Normally I side more with the D's than the R's (not that I have much faith in either), but this time I'm damn glad there's an R majority in the House.
There is little empirical evidence to suggest that foreign engineers displace American engineers as a whole.
Apparently the author is unfamiliar with Internet search engines and/or the name Norman Matloff. You'll find plenty of empirical evidence.
If anything, one recent study suggests, the growth of immigrant workers in American companies helps younger American technical workers — more of them are hired and at higher-paying jobs — but has no noticeable consequences, good or bad, on older workers.
Would the author care to mention the name of the study, who it was performed by, or even (*gasp*) provide a link? Otherwise a reference to "one recent study" has no credibility whatsoever.
If you're going to shove a line of bull at people, at least have the respect to make it seem a little credible. Propaganda like this is just plain insulting. I'd rather have somebody be honest enough to say "Screw you, the tech billionaires won, courtesy of the propaganda they pay for and the bribes they give their sycophants in congress. If you don't like it you can eat sh*t."
Where is the/. user that supports the Citizens United Supreme Court ruling? Before the ruling, I as an individual was not allowed by buy a TV ad for my favorite politician within 90 days of an election. After the ruling I can.
That's great! How many TV ads are you going to buy for your favorite politician?
Lambdas and closures are really nice too - very powerful but easy to read and understand. I wouldn't say C++11 really makes nested functions simple enough to make them worth using much. You can do it with lambdas I suppose, but "misusing" them this way defeats much of the advantage of clarity that simple nested functions have. Now that you mention the similarity, it seems odd that they added lambdas and closures but not the related, and probably easier to implement, plain nested functions.
Good points about some of the other languages, but unfortunately for me most of my "real" work is, and has to remain, in C/C++.
Slashdot Mirror
The cost of living is insane out there. There are great engineers all over the world.
Including other parts of the US. While SV is an amazing collection of talent (not everyone there, but enough) it's also one of the most provincial places I've ever seen. The idea that good talent can be found elsewhere in the country, at better prices no less, never seems to occur to anyone.
The reason people pay less for apartments in high rises
Not a valid generalization. In Manhattan the highrises are often the premium buildings. I've also lived in both garden apartments and a "highrise" (only five stories, but a real building instead of a two story pile of kindling). The real building was way better. The head of my bed was on the other side of the wall from a baby's crib, and I never heard that kid once.
No, NIMBYs and ridiculous land-use laws are driving up prices. If we added as many new apts as the market demands using the amazing technological innovation that is the elevator, we wouldn't see the prices we do.
Hear, hear! I get tired of people complaining that they can't hire enough people in SV. The obvious reason is that it's too expensive to live there, and the obvious solution is higher density. There must be some zoning and regulation in SV that keeps that from happening, which annoys me even more. I'm not anti-suburb at all. I've lived in them by choice almost my whole life. But you can't have your nice little suburban enclave and then complain you can't get enough people. Make up your mind.
they put cilantro on everything
I guess it sucks if you don't like it. It is everywhere. Personally I love it, although a lot of people think it tastes like soap. They should have a cilantro free side of the menu or something. Maybe a new restaurant, "Cilantro Optional".
I'm not sure why another posted was complaining about restaurants in SJ, or the South Bay in general.
My experience as a frequent visitor is that while there are definitely good places, there are also a surprising number of mediocre to poor ones. If you live there, or ask a local with decent tastes, you'll do well. If you walk into a random place because you have no other information, your odds of hitting something decent are much less than other areas I visit. I have no idea why.
Except for the one whose last H1-B re-up is over, and now his kids, having grown up in the US, have to go back to India. Yes, he's pissed, but they'll send a new H1-B guy to replace him, so we just are throwing out a capable person and his family for stupid bureaucratic reasons
I have zero sympathy for that guy. He came here on a guest worker visa that he knew perfectly well was good for a maximum of six years. Now he's upset because the visa actually meant what it said? As for "throwing out a capable person", if they'd hired an American (LOL, Tata hire an American!) then there would be no reason for that person to leave. Finally what you call "stupid bureaucratic reasons" are better known as visa conditions (clearly stated before he ever came here).
You understand nothing about free markets. "Fair market rate" is meaningless. If you don't see an increase in prices, then there is no shortage.
That idea was rejected in 1847.
You have a good point. Instead of a protest sign or a bumper sticker that demands congress do something, I should get one that demands they do nothing. I'd probably be able to sell a lot of them too.
I have friends with at least 10 companies in SF and the valley that are having similar difficulties hiring.
Arguendo I'll accept your anecdotal evidence that the employment situation in the Bay Area is good for employees. I'll even assume that, contrary to common practice, you and your buddies don't discriminate based on age, etc. In so far as US guest worker policy is concerned, my response is "so what". Contrary to the provincialism so common in SV and SF, they are but one small part of the United States. The US should not change guest worker policy based on the desires of some people in one small area. If companies cannot find enough employees at a price they're willing to pay in SV and SF, they can start up or branch out to other parts of the country, where applicants are more plentiful and salaries are lower. There are many smaller tech enclaves in the country.
He did mention it - he just got it wrong. FTA:
If anything, one recent study suggests, the growth of immigrant workers in American companies helps younger American technical workers — more of them are hired and at higher-paying jobs — but has no noticeable consequences, good or bad, on older workers.
I doubt reporters read these studies they cite in any detail, probably just getting a brief summary from somebody who supposedly has. In all fairness though the article does begin and end with a discussion of age discrimination, albeit in that anecdotal human interest style beloved of most reporters. All in all it's not a bad article. There are certainly many points I'd refute, but it's hardly mindless cheerleading for H-1B's.
I can say with certainty that the H1Bs are not displacing anyone in NYC. We are all desperately trying to hire competent engineers.
Throw more dead presidents at them - people will do almost anything for enough money. Surely a city full of self-described capitalists should understand that concept, or does that only apply when the market favors them? Like the bankers who were all for capitalism and rugged individualism until they asked the government to bail their sorry asses out, employers facing rising tech salaries go running to nanny government to help them. Wah, we don't wanna pay more for the hired help, it might cut into our multi-million dollar bonuses! Quick, we need to import more cheap labor.
America does really not have enough Electrical, Mechanical and Civil (maybe more disciplines, but these are the ones I have close friends in) engineers.
Evidence?
It is *very* clear that there aren't enough American workers to supply demand
How is it clear? What is your evidence?
Even if you were out of the market for 10+ years (I had a male friend who decided to raise his daughters at home instead of the stereotypical mother doing it...and he was able to come straight back in.
What year was that?
In the big tech centers
Specifically which big tech centers are you talking about?
Redundant. See responses to above SirGarlon above.
"If anything, one recent study suggests"
This makes it sound like they had to dig through a lot of studies to find one that supported their belief.
I doubt they bother. It's so much easier to pull a study from one's posterior, or call up your favorite lobbyists paid by tech billionaires. 2+2=5? No problem. How many studies and experts do you want?
Actually, if you need citations for this, you're thinking critically.
If you don't think many citations have been posted here in the past, you're being deliberately obtuse. For starters Google "Norman Matloff" - hours of fun reading. I used to post specific links and quotes, but at this point it's ridiculous. "Prove it" is a zombie line, killed a thousand times and still coming back.
Actually, they are required to pay the H-1B visa holders the prevailing wages
Laws are meaningless if they're not enforced, and that one isn't.
America is a nation built by immigrants.
If you had any understanding of what's being discussed here, you'd know that people are complaining about guest worker programs, not immigration programs.
I guess Canada will lead the way
Lead the way in what, Ph.D.'s driving cabs?
America devolves into a cesspool of stupid white inbreds
News flash: America is not a "white" country. The fastest growing "racial" group is Hispanics. Even without any immigration it won't be long before "white" people are not a majority in this country, and anybody with half a brain doesn't give a damn one way or the other.
I also find this obsession with artificial constructs like "race" to be offensive. Roll back the effects of Bacon's Rebellion. The whole concept of race was always a bunch of bull used in a divide and conquer strategy to keep the peasants from revolting. It has no other significance or meaning.
Ah, if there's a shortage of skilled workers requiring an increase in H-1Bs, we must be seeing huge increases in salaries to fill all the openings.
Shhh, economic principles should only be applied when they benefit the top 0.01%. In all other cases they may be ignored.
You mean there's an opposition party? Wow. Normally I side more with the D's than the R's (not that I have much faith in either), but this time I'm damn glad there's an R majority in the House.
There is little empirical evidence to suggest that foreign engineers displace American engineers as a whole.
Apparently the author is unfamiliar with Internet search engines and/or the name Norman Matloff. You'll find plenty of empirical evidence.
If anything, one recent study suggests, the growth of immigrant workers in American companies helps younger American technical workers — more of them are hired and at higher-paying jobs — but has no noticeable consequences, good or bad, on older workers.
Would the author care to mention the name of the study, who it was performed by, or even (*gasp*) provide a link? Otherwise a reference to "one recent study" has no credibility whatsoever.
If you're going to shove a line of bull at people, at least have the respect to make it seem a little credible. Propaganda like this is just plain insulting. I'd rather have somebody be honest enough to say "Screw you, the tech billionaires won, courtesy of the propaganda they pay for and the bribes they give their sycophants in congress. If you don't like it you can eat sh*t."
Where is the /. user that supports the Citizens United Supreme Court ruling?
Before the ruling, I as an individual was not allowed by buy a TV ad for my favorite politician within 90 days of an election.
After the ruling I can.
That's great! How many TV ads are you going to buy for your favorite politician?
Lambdas and closures are really nice too - very powerful but easy to read and understand. I wouldn't say C++11 really makes nested functions simple enough to make them worth using much. You can do it with lambdas I suppose, but "misusing" them this way defeats much of the advantage of clarity that simple nested functions have. Now that you mention the similarity, it seems odd that they added lambdas and closures but not the related, and probably easier to implement, plain nested functions.
Good points about some of the other languages, but unfortunately for me most of my "real" work is, and has to remain, in C/C++.