In CS we started as Freshmen writing code and more code and even more code as you got higher up in the classes ie, 1000 level vs 2000 vs 3000. The mis folks in the college of business did't write hardly ANY code till they were Jr or Sr's. I always thought this was a bad idea since half of them ended up working as programers.
I actually knew a manager that claimed he perferred MIS grads over CS grads because they produced better 'documentation'. Which is probably true, but he got his butt canned because evey project he managed went over on time and budget by a significant margin and were usually buggy as hell, but his projects were all well documented and thats what counts right????
So let me get this straight We should only expect windows to be stable for 4 hours at a time???, 12 hours is a luxury and 'WE' don't get it????
Look dude in 3 to 4 years linux will own 30% of the corporate desktops (thats a conserative estimate) When that happens, it will start making serious inroads into the home. MS is already losing the server wars. Most of the f500 companies are redeploying alot of thier stuff that used to run on AIX, HP or Solaris boxes to Linux boxes for servers, as that acclerates so will the desktop use of linux.
Folks will want to run at home, what they have at work......
Actully no, these experiments were not tried in communist countries. All the money went to the politically empowered (the ruling caste). What the previous poster said is correct. The middle class (making form 30k to about 120K) drive this economy. If a person has millions, quite likely they will spend it on imports, and sock it away in the bank.
The same money spread out in the middle class will drive millions of jobs, all the consumers out buying houses, cars (even gasp SUV's), microwaves, etc...........
Why do you think the economy was running so well at the height of the dot com bubble?? A couple of trillion dollars was liberated from the banks and went to paying folks nice salaries, and bonuses along with companies buying builidings, computers, office furniture etc.....
The goverment has a right to decide that the money is better off flowing in the economy and generating jobs than sitting in rich persons' bank.
Right now 90% of wealth in this country is owned by 10% or less of the people. That's not right, no matter how you want to look at it. It's affecting the economy (6.2% unemployment with another.2% that have given up finding a job) as the above ratios move i.e. 90% of the wealth being owned by say 5% of the population we will be close to what the communist populations endured during the cold war. Also Unempolyment will rise as well. At that point there will such a small percentage of the money flowing, vs what is locked up, that goverment policies will have little or no effect. We are already getting there.
Most rich people as a percent of thier income usually pay the same or less than most middle class families, because they have write-offs and loop holes that are only available to them.
From those with much, much is expected. If they don't like it than move where???? The EU will tax them worse then the US, same with most asian countries.
MSCE is a ponzi scheme, passing the EIT and Prof. Engr exams are akin to passing the Bar exam but, more difficult. You don't have to have an engineering degree for say, I know several folks with physics degrees that became engineers, but it's no cake walk.
No one can take a 6 month course (i.e. MSCE) and 'Become a fully licensed civil engineer' or electrical engineer......
MSCE is akin to the old Novell certification. If you pay the company money ( MS or previously novell), take a few simple exams and you are an MSCE......
Which means you spend all day reading the MS site and applying patches to buggy and unsecure software.
IBM owns those patents. You can't say BTW since we license something to you, we now own your patents. IF, big IF, that were the case, IBM would have made them sign a cross-licensing agreement allowing IBM to keep control of thier patents.
IBM has owned those patents since '92 when they bough sequent, sequent had those patents since the late 80's so either way SCO SOL.
How much experience do you have with Indian coders??? I've worked on a couple of projects and what we got back was a bunch a sub-par code that had to be reworked by a bunch of overpaid us programmers.
The first job was OK.
The difference was, the one project that worked out well was a limited scope, basic online reporting tool.
The project that had to be rewritten required alot a domain knowlege that wasn't properly communicated, and in all fairness to everyone would've taken longer to educate the Indians in our business than to actully do it ourselves.
I believe what you will see heading offshore is alot of the grunt work, but stuff that requires intimate knowlege of the business process will stay here in the US ( for a while ).
Look if your tech development moves to India and your manufacturing to singapore and malaysia, then WTF do you need some white guy from NY as your CEO??? It's all about connections, You need some Oxford trained Indian guy who's connected in India and the far -east. All the upper management is doing is planning thier own demise.
For years now small to med bussiness has been the big driver of jobs, not the IBM's of this world. With All the advances in Manuf. and technology it will soon be possible to make some pretty cool stuff with a small amount of folks, but margins will be low, so NO high salaried CEO to sit around "Do the vision thing", play golf and diddle his secretary.
With.Net you can have MS or M$.... (yes I know about Mono, but talk to when it's out of beta) With Java or PHP/Perl/.... You have a choice. Where I'm working now we develop on W2000 boxes, but deploy and run on Linux. Our server is Websphere. If we wanted to run on Solaris boxes we could get that up and running in a day or so. Most of the work would be installing configuring Websphere. Basically we can switch platforms in about 24 hours with Java.
With.net ?????? You have your choice of W2000, XP or ???????? you get the point. One is a completely closed solution the other isn't.
I understand how the GPL works, If ms puts windows code in to make it more windows compatible, They MUST DISTRIBUTE THIER SOURCE, or be in violation of GPL.
Thats prescisly what MS does NOT want to do, hand out windows source, which btw would then be GPL'd as well.
Thats why they bitch about the 'viral' nature of the GPL.
One of us doesn't understand how the GPL works, but it's not me. BTW how many/.s would buy a MS distribution of linux ??? maybe 12?? If MS could do what you say, they would have done it. They want to but that viral GPL keeps getting in the way.
As far as the 12year comment it was a joke, but I didn't realize about being modded down and then having 0 points. I was modded -1 for offtopic about 4 posts ago, and ever since my posts have been 0s.
I've been writing software about 16 years, I've seen MS do crappy things to friend and foe alike in those 16 years, so they can get where they are. BELIEVE me if was as easy as you think they would've killed linux 3 years ago.
If you could kill it right now Bill would make you a rich man (or woman), but the nature of GPL protects it and that pisses BG off to no end.
I don't think you read my reply. It doesn't matter what MS puts in, if the project manager rejects it doesn't make it in. Even if they went thier own way with a linux distro and added a bunch of windows compatible code, they would have to distribute the source as well ( remember the GPL????) I can't beleive a moron like this gets a score of 1 for a troll, and my orignal post got a 0.
As far as losing to linux, in the server dept MS is getting it's butt handed to it. I've seen a dozen new Software projects started at fortune 500 companies the last 12 months and they are being designed to run linux boxes ( with java using either websphere, BEA or JBOSS). The only thing I've seen folks buying MS servers for is exchange. Of course SUN is getting it's butt beat as well.
Hmmmm maybe redhat will start a new slashdot clone site as well. Hopefully one thats not modded by a flock of 12 year olds . Geesh...
If that were true MS could contribute to linux, pollute it and eventually destroy it. Linus controls what goes into the linux kernel, no matter who "contributes". This would work in the same way. Either Red Hat, or even Sun itself could control what went into releases, and summarily reject anything MS wanted to put into.
1) Give massive taxcuts to the productive, i.e. CEO's who make 20+ mil a year raping thier companies, outsourcing all jobs to india (except thiers of course) and then bankrupt thier companies with shady shadow companies to hide company debt they incurred.
2) Continue Corporate welfare so that any company giving enough money under the table will never have to pay taxes.
3) Drive 90% of all americans into $8 hour jobs, and the other 10% are wealthy corporate types who support the GOP
4) When things tough declare that canada has WMD and invade.
Eclipse uses IBM's SWT gui framework. Which uses native widgets with a java interface. It is very fast, and yes you must have widgets for each platform.
Jbuilder and IntelliJ are 100% java as is Oracles' JDeveloper, which all three run fairly well, given a minimum of 384Meg of ram.
As a Java Developer I can see where great progress has been made in the last 5 years, but there is alot more to do. Java should be faster than it is.
Abosluetly...
I have a Linux box at home with Star office, Gimp, Jbuilder etc... I have never had any run-time problems with.
On the other hand I spend alot more time messing wih my wife's windows box has this app has overwritten a DLL is Windows/system or Windows/System32 with a version that some other app can't use, so now it won't work. Thats just one example. I've been using MS products for years (like 15 or 16) and they have always been unstable, and over priced....
Yeah I can do all that on Star office, and it does'nt cost me anything. Is MS to be praised just because thier crap works????
Thats a low point... DUDE YOU'RE AN AWESOME SW COMPANY BECAUSE YOU SHIT WORKS........ DUDE
1) No.... something like 65% of the web server market is apache (Open source)
2) Something like 45 of all boxes running said servers are some unix Linux, Solaris, BSD, AIX.....
3)Yes they do have a good browser or Windows boxes, however it's absoulte shit on a Mac, and there is *ix version. Whether it be Solaris, Aix.....
So whats your point Bill-Gates-Ass-licker?? One out of your three points is valid, and the third one is only halfway right??? Just like MS.....They suck more than 2/3's or the time.
I'm 36 now, when I got out of college C was the big ticket, so I played with some 4GL's after that, went to C++ and started early on working on internet related technology, moved to Java and somewhere in between got hooked on linux, but have enough winnt knowlege to get by.
Point is you have to be willing to learn. I know guys I went to school with that decided they new all they needed to know with C and DOS 5. Needless to say they are NOT still in this field. You have to be willing to constantly learn whether you are 16 or 61.
The text of alice and wonderland has long since passed into the public domain (cc1865).
The only way they could enforce something like this is if THEY owned the rights to it. Even then it would be thrown out, probably, based on fair use.
On Dec 12th Congress MUST BY LAW (CONSTUTUTIONALY) certify the electorial college. If there are no clear cut rulings, they MUST take the Fla. Certified count and electors.... If this drags out another 8 days Bush wins.
Only requires a small program to run?? I've worked on several ecommerce type web sites. All of them have required rather large complex programs, usually some combination of talking to a database, mainframe and some other system like SAP or people soft. I've done it in C++ and Java. Actually Java is more effecient because once your running something like Netscape Enterprise, OAS or even Weblogics, the servlets usually are threads. So there is only one process with multiple threads.
Yes you can do this with C++, but you end having to write alot of stuff yourself, so now you've spent time re-inventing the wheel, thats inefficent as well.
Hey if all you are doing is static web sites then a little perl and javascript is all you need.
Slashdot Mirror
Maybe thats why corporate application I've worked on the last 4 years has deployed on Solaris or Linux using Java or C++ and Corba....
It maybe the defacto standard for mail servers (exchange) but thats all I've seen it used for.
It's defacto if you want to write video games.
MS will get the 150K + interest back when the University has to upgrade x1000 pc and servers every 2 years.
.....
You would think University professors would think a bit more about the big picture
Never mind I take that back, having known a few, I can see how this might work......
What food?? I hear he sucks the blood from unsuspecting linux programmers, sleeps in a pine box lined with earth and only comes out at night.
The only way to kill him is to sprinkle jolt cola on him and drive a copy of the GPL through his heart.
Otherwise he'll just live for centuries and every so often jump out of the closet to sue IBM.....
In CS we started as Freshmen writing code and more code and even more code as you got higher up in the classes ie, 1000 level vs 2000 vs 3000. The mis folks in the college of business did't write hardly ANY code till they were Jr or Sr's. I always thought this was a bad idea since half of them ended up working as programers.
I actually knew a manager that claimed he perferred MIS grads over CS grads because they produced better 'documentation'. Which is probably true, but he got his butt canned because evey project he managed went over on time and budget by a significant margin and were usually buggy as hell, but his projects were all well documented and thats what counts right????
So let me get this straight We should only expect windows to be stable for 4 hours at a time???, 12 hours is a luxury and 'WE' don't get it????
Look dude in 3 to 4 years linux will own 30% of the corporate desktops (thats a conserative estimate) When that happens, it will start making serious inroads into the home. MS is already losing the server wars. Most of the f500 companies are redeploying alot of thier stuff that used to run on AIX, HP or Solaris boxes to Linux boxes for servers, as that acclerates so will the desktop use of linux.
Folks will want to run at home, what they have at work......
Actully no, these experiments were not tried in communist countries. All the money went to the politically empowered (the ruling caste). What the previous poster said is correct. The middle class (making form 30k to about 120K) drive this economy. If a person has millions, quite likely they will spend it on imports, and sock it away in the bank.
.2% that have given up finding a job) as the above ratios move i.e. 90% of the wealth being owned by say 5% of the population we will be close to what the communist populations endured during the cold war. Also Unempolyment will rise as well. At that point there will such a small percentage of the money flowing, vs what is locked up, that goverment policies will have little or no effect. We are already getting there.
The same money spread out in the middle class will drive millions of jobs, all the consumers out buying houses, cars (even gasp SUV's), microwaves, etc...........
Why do you think the economy was running so well at the height of the dot com bubble?? A couple of trillion dollars was liberated from the banks and went to paying folks nice salaries, and bonuses along with companies buying builidings, computers, office furniture etc.....
The goverment has a right to decide that the money is better off flowing in the economy and generating jobs than sitting in rich persons' bank.
Right now 90% of wealth in this country is owned by 10% or less of the people. That's not right, no matter how you want to look at it. It's affecting the economy (6.2% unemployment with another
Most rich people as a percent of thier income usually pay the same or less than most middle class families, because they have write-offs and loop holes that are only available to them.
From those with much, much is expected. If they don't like it than move where???? The EU will tax them worse then the US, same with most asian countries.
Cowboy Neal High Voltage Electrical Service.....
Seriously Call someone, saving a couple of grand is'nt worth it if you end up dead in the process.
MSCE is a ponzi scheme, passing the EIT and Prof. Engr exams are akin to passing the Bar exam but, more difficult. You don't have to have an engineering degree for say, I know several folks with physics degrees that became engineers, but it's no cake walk.
......
No one can take a 6 month course (i.e. MSCE) and
'Become a fully licensed civil engineer' or electrical engineer
MSCE is akin to the old Novell certification. If
you pay the company money ( MS or previously novell), take a few simple exams and you are an
MSCE......
Which means you spend all day reading the MS site and applying patches to buggy and unsecure software.
IBM owns those patents. You can't say BTW since we license something to you, we now own your patents. IF, big IF, that were the case, IBM would have made them sign a cross-licensing agreement allowing IBM to keep control of thier patents.
IBM has owned those patents since '92 when they bough sequent, sequent had those patents since the late 80's so either way SCO SOL.
How much experience do you have with Indian coders??? I've worked on a couple of projects and what we got back was a bunch a sub-par code that had to be reworked by a bunch of overpaid us programmers.
The first job was OK.
The difference was, the one project that worked out well was a limited scope, basic online reporting tool.
The project that had to be rewritten required alot a domain knowlege that wasn't properly communicated, and in all fairness to everyone would've taken longer to educate the Indians in our business than to actully do it ourselves.
I believe what you will see heading offshore is alot of the grunt work, but stuff that requires intimate knowlege of the business process will stay here in the US ( for a while ).
Changed thier name to the MS Advocate/Suckup group 5 years ago.
They've had head so far MS butt's that if MS stops too fast it'll break thier neck......
Gartner Group will probably advocate next that IT should not buy ANYTHING and wait x years for MS longhorn.
These guys are right up there with the Iraqi information minister.
"I have to tell you there are no linux servers in Bagdad............."
Look if your tech development moves to India and your manufacturing to singapore and malaysia, then WTF do you need some white guy from NY as your CEO??? It's all about connections, You need some Oxford trained Indian guy who's connected in India and the far -east. All the upper management is doing is planning thier own demise.
.........
For years now small to med bussiness has been the big driver of jobs, not the IBM's of this world. With All the advances in Manuf. and technology it will soon be possible to make some pretty cool stuff with a small amount of folks, but margins will be low, so NO high salaried CEO to sit around "Do the vision thing", play golf and diddle his secretary.
These times are a changin
With .Net you can have MS or M$ .... (yes I know about Mono, but talk to when it's out of beta) With Java or PHP/Perl/.... You have a choice. Where I'm working now we develop on W2000 boxes, but deploy and run on Linux. Our server is Websphere. If we wanted to run on Solaris boxes we could get that up and running in a day or so. Most of the work would be installing configuring Websphere. Basically we can switch platforms in about 24 hours with Java.
.net ?????? You have your choice of W2000, XP or ???????? you get the point. One is a completely closed solution the other isn't.
With
I understand how the GPL works, If ms puts windows code in to make it more windows compatible, They MUST DISTRIBUTE THIER SOURCE, or be in violation of GPL.
/.s would buy a MS distribution of linux ??? maybe 12?? If MS could do what you say, they would have done it.
Thats prescisly what MS does NOT want to do, hand out windows source, which btw would then be GPL'd as well.
Thats why they bitch about the 'viral' nature of the GPL.
One of us doesn't understand how the GPL works, but it's not me. BTW how many
They want to but that viral GPL keeps getting in the way.
As far as the 12year comment it was a joke, but I didn't realize about being modded down and then having 0 points. I was modded -1 for offtopic about 4 posts ago, and ever since my posts have been 0s.
I've been writing software about 16 years, I've seen MS do crappy things to friend and foe alike in those 16 years, so they can get where they are. BELIEVE me if was as easy as you think they would've killed linux 3 years ago.
If you could kill it right now Bill would make you a rich man (or woman), but the nature of GPL protects it and that pisses BG off to no end.
I don't think you read my reply. It doesn't matter what MS puts in, if the project manager rejects it doesn't make it in. Even if they went thier own way with a linux distro and added a bunch of windows compatible code, they would have to distribute the source as well ( remember the GPL????) I can't beleive a moron like this gets a score of 1 for a troll, and my orignal post got a 0.
As far as losing to linux, in the server dept MS is getting it's butt handed to it. I've seen a dozen new Software projects started at fortune 500 companies the last 12 months and they are being designed to run linux boxes ( with java using either websphere, BEA or JBOSS). The only thing I've seen folks buying MS servers for is
exchange. Of course SUN is getting it's butt beat as well.
Hmmmm maybe redhat will start a new slashdot clone site as well. Hopefully one thats not modded by a flock of 12 year olds . Geesh...
If that were true MS could contribute to linux, pollute it and eventually destroy it. Linus controls what goes into the linux kernel, no matter who "contributes". This would work in the same way. Either Red Hat, or even Sun itself could control what went into releases, and summarily reject anything MS wanted to put into.
1) Give massive taxcuts to the productive, i.e. CEO's who make 20+ mil a year raping thier companies, outsourcing all jobs to india (except thiers of course) and then bankrupt thier companies with shady shadow companies to hide company debt they incurred.
2) Continue Corporate welfare so that any company giving enough money under the table will never have to pay taxes.
3) Drive 90% of all americans into $8 hour jobs, and the other 10% are wealthy corporate types who support the GOP
4) When things tough declare that canada has WMD and invade.
Eclipse uses IBM's SWT gui framework. Which uses native widgets with a java interface. It is very fast, and yes you must have widgets for each platform.
Jbuilder and IntelliJ are 100% java as is Oracles' JDeveloper, which all three run fairly well, given a minimum of 384Meg of ram.
As a Java Developer I can see where great progress has been made in the last 5 years, but there is alot more to do. Java should be faster than it is.
Abosluetly... I have a Linux box at home with Star office, Gimp, Jbuilder etc... I have never had any run-time problems with. On the other hand I spend alot more time messing wih my wife's windows box has this app has overwritten a DLL is Windows/system or Windows/System32 with a version that some other app can't use, so now it won't work. Thats just one example. I've been using MS products for years (like 15 or 16) and they have always been unstable, and over priced....
Yeah I can do all that on Star office, and it does'nt cost me anything. Is MS to be praised just because thier crap works???? Thats a low point... DUDE YOU'RE AN AWESOME SW COMPANY BECAUSE YOU SHIT WORKS........ DUDE
1) No.... something like 65% of the web server market is apache (Open source) 2) Something like 45 of all boxes running said servers are some unix Linux, Solaris, BSD, AIX..... 3)Yes they do have a good browser or Windows boxes, however it's absoulte shit on a Mac, and there is *ix version. Whether it be Solaris, Aix .....
So whats your point Bill-Gates-Ass-licker?? One out of your three points is valid, and the third one is only halfway right??? Just like MS .....They suck more than 2/3's or the time.
I'm 36 now, when I got out of college C was the big ticket, so I played with some 4GL's after that, went to C++ and started early on working on internet related technology, moved to Java and somewhere in between got hooked on linux, but have enough winnt knowlege to get by. Point is you have to be willing to learn. I know guys I went to school with that decided they new all they needed to know with C and DOS 5. Needless to say they are NOT still in this field. You have to be willing to constantly learn whether you are 16 or 61.
The text of alice and wonderland has long since passed into the public domain (cc1865). The only way they could enforce something like this is if THEY owned the rights to it. Even then it would be thrown out, probably, based on fair use.
On Dec 12th Congress MUST BY LAW (CONSTUTUTIONALY) certify the electorial college. If there are no clear cut rulings, they MUST take the Fla. Certified count and electors.... If this drags out another 8 days Bush wins.
Only requires a small program to run?? I've worked on several ecommerce type web sites. All of them have required rather large complex programs, usually some combination of talking to a database, mainframe and some other system like SAP or people soft. I've done it in C++ and Java. Actually Java is more effecient because once your running something like Netscape Enterprise, OAS or even Weblogics, the servlets usually are threads. So there is only one process with multiple threads.
Yes you can do this with C++, but you end having to write alot of stuff yourself, so now you've spent time re-inventing the wheel, thats inefficent as well. Hey if all you are doing is static web sites then a little perl and javascript is all you need.