Agreed here. But once there is 'MsKaffe' and 'Kaffe', it can only be bad things.. More then one version of simular products can lead to confusion and mistrust..
MsKaffe has a major security hole, suddenly, every time that Kaffe is mentioned, it's linked, even though it may have NOTHING to do with it..
That's what worries me..
Yes, it is their right. Many people have rights legally, but I don't think that they are right. They HAVE the right, but I don't think they ARE right..;-P
The guys who OWN transvirtual contibuted the majority of the code that is in Kaffe. They OWN that code, and can do whatever the hell they want with it.. They can put it in another program without opening the source.. It's THEIRS.. GPL != public domain.. They will NOT end up open sourced..
The problem here is people WILL use it becouse Microsoft may push it on them. And as they go, the pointy haired bosses go, and eventually, we're stuck with it..
Err, I don't think you caught on.. Kaffe has two flavors.. GPL and private. Microsoft is paying them to extend their private version so that microsoft can then use it without ANY OF THE LICENSING issues that are associated with Sun. Microsoft really IS involved here.. The guys who run Transvirtual are now pretty much owned by Microsoft, and I really don't think they quite yet understand that they're sleeping with a rattler..
Err, OO doesn't mean Visual. Not even close.. They are two seperate and distinct things.. C++ is OO, and you can code without using a Visual editor. Same with SmallTalk, etc..
VB is Visually based AND OO, but not very robust. Personally, I LOVE Java, but not becouse of anything visual. It just like the approach the language uses. Personally, I don't use it for UI apps, but server backends..
Please look at it closer next time. Microsoft is developing based on the CLOSED version of Kaffe (YES, it IS there). Nearly 95% of Kaffe's source was developed by the two guys who own transvirtuals, hence, they can themselves use the source in ANY closed source environment they want to..
The GPL does NOT donate the source to the public domain..
It does indeed run under Windows, very well, in fact. They most likely don't SUPPLY a Windows version due to their relationship with Microsoft currently.. Microsoft will most likely embrace and extend the commercial version, which they can do with to their hearts content with no source being open..
Yes, but the information regarding Kaffe DIDN'T take into consideration that Microsoft bought up a good hunk of Transvirtual. They are now in a position to use Kaffe, NOT release the source, and 'choke and kill' Kaffe.. Heck, they may starty to pollute the Kaffe source, as they 'own' the major developers..
I think the developers hearts are in the right place, but I think Microsoft is going to screw them in the long run, and hopefully not Kaffe in the proccess..
Heck, this COULD be the case that blows the GPL out of the water, if the developers and Microsot ever come to heads..
Yes, it was, but some developers merely like Java for it's OO design, and don't really CARE about platform dependence. It's like VB for the non VBers..;-P
Yeppers.. But there is also a 'commercial' version that Microsoft is 'embracing and extending' to use NON portable things. Read up on the web page regarding the 'free' Open Source version, and the 'Open Source for Cash' version.
Please go read a book that covers SEC. While a company isn't held liable for what's in the NY Times that they happen to have in their store, they ARE in trouble if they blow it up and put it on their front page (Or store window).
Mostly Gnome's fault, IMHO. After using many combinations of things, I find that Gnome is the common denominator in many of the crash problems.. Now, I DO love gnome, this is merely my observation..
Looking at it, it's funny, becouse they are ALL so vague, except for Linux. PC Games can be Linux games.. DVD games can be Linux games.. I think what they MEANT here is Windows, Linux, Mac, or Playstation..;-P
Sorry, but I took your original attitude as being 'Dude, That SUX!!; type of message.. I agrere with what your saying here.. Personally, I don't like Outlook, but I see no Linux based alternative in an exchange environment, beside's using the Web interface that Exchange provides..
But that's the best part about it!:) If you're not satisfied, you can FIX IT. You definitely can't say that about Micros~1 products. Anything that's wrong with it, any features it doesn't have that you want, go ahead and add them! (And when you're done, please, pass them on for others to share).
I think what he was trying to say is that there are certain things that there ARE no open-sourced equivilants for.. Perfect case in point: Microsoft Access. Yet another, Cadence IC design software..
As for Outlook, we run Outlook here too and I get by just fine with Linux. Outlook supports web mail and POP3, but who cares anyway, Outlook sucks:)
Outlook for reading POP alone, yer fine.. Many who use Outlook use it with Exchange.. Ever try to get meeting info from an Exchange server without Outlook?
I think you should use whatever Operating System is best suited for your needs, and I would hope everyone shares that opinion
Unless, in your opinion, they choose anything but Linux, and decide to use Outlook, which, after all sucks, right? Shesh, at least stick with your opinions..
Software source DOES matter../dev/dsp doesn't always work the same on different platforms, plain and simple.. Unless they are riding G2 on top of one of the audiolibs, they would need to add platform specific code to use it on another system..
The hardly seem to be 'fearing' Linux with this.. They've already seen the second test results, and their betting that Linux, even finally tuned, will not beat NT..
I hope their wrong, but we shall see..
Re:A for fileserver for NT????
on
NOS Crossroads
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· Score: 1
I think that they worded the point incorrectly.. What they where doing was comparing different operating systems on an x86 based system. I would have to agree that it'd hardly be fair to say that this is 'Linux vs NT vs Solaris vs Netware'. Who knows how Solaris would doon it's own hardware (OK, so we have a CLUE..;-P) vs something like Linux PPC or NT on an Alpha..
Slashdot Mirror
Yeppers, Bill went to 90 BILLION.. ;-O
Tell me about it.. It was all buildbuildbuild.. Then 'The End'.. DoH!
Hey, I'm ALL FOR Raytraced logo's, but they need to at least come up with something beside's /. on a plane.. ;-P
I love the idea of that.. With the /. in green, with a grey shadow..
Cloned? Heck no, they handed over the raw source to incorperate in.. ;-P
Agreed here. But once there is 'MsKaffe' and 'Kaffe', it can only be bad things.. More then one version of simular products can lead to confusion and mistrust..
;-P
MsKaffe has a major security hole, suddenly, every time that Kaffe is mentioned, it's linked, even though it may have NOTHING to do with it..
That's what worries me..
Yes, it is their right. Many people have rights legally, but I don't think that they are right. They HAVE the right, but I don't think they ARE right..
You are wrong here..
The guys who OWN transvirtual contibuted the majority of the code that is in Kaffe. They OWN that code, and can do whatever the hell they want with it.. They can put it in another program without opening the source.. It's THEIRS.. GPL != public domain.. They will NOT end up open sourced..
The problem here is people WILL use it becouse Microsoft may push it on them. And as they go, the pointy haired bosses go, and eventually, we're stuck with it..
Err, I don't think you caught on.. Kaffe has two flavors.. GPL and private. Microsoft is paying them to extend their private version so that microsoft can then use it without ANY OF THE LICENSING issues that are associated with Sun. Microsoft really IS involved here.. The guys who run Transvirtual are now pretty much owned by Microsoft, and I really don't think they quite yet understand that they're sleeping with a rattler..
Err, OO doesn't mean Visual. Not even close.. They are two seperate and distinct things.. C++ is OO, and you can code without using a Visual editor. Same with SmallTalk, etc..
VB is Visually based AND OO, but not very robust. Personally, I LOVE Java, but not becouse of anything visual. It just like the approach the language uses. Personally, I don't use it for UI apps, but server backends..
Please look at it closer next time. Microsoft is developing based on the CLOSED version of Kaffe (YES, it IS there). Nearly 95% of Kaffe's source was developed by the two guys who own transvirtuals, hence, they can themselves use the source in ANY closed source environment they want to..
The GPL does NOT donate the source to the public domain..
http://www.transvirtual.com/ports.html
It does indeed run under Windows, very well, in fact. They most likely don't SUPPLY a Windows version due to their relationship with Microsoft currently.. Microsoft will most likely embrace and extend the commercial version, which they can do with to their hearts content with no source being open..
Yes, but the information regarding Kaffe DIDN'T take into consideration that Microsoft bought up a good hunk of Transvirtual. They are now in a position to use Kaffe, NOT release the source, and 'choke and kill' Kaffe.. Heck, they may starty to pollute the Kaffe source, as they 'own' the major developers..
I think the developers hearts are in the right place, but I think Microsoft is going to screw them in the long run, and hopefully not Kaffe in the proccess..
Heck, this COULD be the case that blows the GPL out of the water, if the developers and Microsot ever come to heads..
Yes, it was, but some developers merely like Java for it's OO design, and don't really CARE about platform dependence. It's like VB for the non VBers.. ;-P
Yeppers.. But there is also a 'commercial' version that Microsoft is 'embracing and extending' to use NON portable things. Read up on the web page regarding the 'free' Open Source version, and the 'Open Source for Cash' version.
Please go read a book that covers SEC. While a company isn't held liable for what's in the NY Times that they happen to have in their store, they ARE in trouble if they blow it up and put it on their front page (Or store window).
Err, Activestates codebase and the BASE Perl codebase where mereged as of 5.005.. Maybee I'm just not getting your point here, though..
Looks to me like it's not Microsoft who would need to worry, but ActiveState.. THEY are working with Microsoft themselves, not the other way around..
Mostly Gnome's fault, IMHO. After using many combinations of things, I find that Gnome is the common denominator in many of the crash problems.. Now, I DO love gnome, this is merely my observation..
Looking at it, it's funny, becouse they are ALL so vague, except for Linux. PC Games can be Linux games.. DVD games can be Linux games.. I think what they MEANT here is Windows, Linux, Mac, or Playstation.. ;-P
Sorry, but I took your original attitude as being 'Dude, That SUX!!; type of message.. I agrere with what your saying here.. Personally, I don't like Outlook, but I see no Linux based alternative in an exchange environment, beside's using the Web interface that Exchange provides..
Soon Novell will be releasing NDS for Linux.. This would take care of what your talking about.. I truely can't WAIT for it myself..
But that's the best part about it! :) If you're not satisfied, you can FIX IT. You definitely can't say that about Micros~1 products. Anything that's wrong with it, any features it doesn't have that you want, go ahead and add them! (And when you're done, please, pass them on for others to share).
:)
I think what he was trying to say is that there are certain things that there ARE no open-sourced equivilants for.. Perfect case in point: Microsoft Access. Yet another, Cadence IC design software..
As for Outlook, we run Outlook here too and I get by just fine with Linux. Outlook supports web mail and POP3, but who cares anyway, Outlook sucks
Outlook for reading POP alone, yer fine.. Many who use Outlook use it with Exchange.. Ever try to get meeting info from an Exchange server without Outlook?
I think you should use whatever Operating System is best suited for your needs, and I would hope everyone shares that opinion
Unless, in your opinion, they choose anything but Linux, and decide to use Outlook, which, after all sucks, right? Shesh, at least stick with your opinions..
Software source DOES matter.. /dev/dsp doesn't always work the same on different platforms, plain and simple.. Unless they are riding G2 on top of one of the audiolibs, they would need to add platform specific code to use it on another system..
The hardly seem to be 'fearing' Linux with this.. They've already seen the second test results, and their betting that Linux, even finally tuned, will not beat NT..
I hope their wrong, but we shall see..
I think that they worded the point incorrectly.. What they where doing was comparing different operating systems on an x86 based system. I would have to agree that it'd hardly be fair to say that this is 'Linux vs NT vs Solaris vs Netware'. Who knows how Solaris would doon it's own hardware (OK, so we have a CLUE..;-P) vs something like Linux PPC or NT on an Alpha..