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Sierra Studios asking about Linux
eh writes "Sierra Studios, makers and distributors of such fine games as Kings Quest and more recently Half-Life, has a poll up on their main page asking where they should steer their attention. One of the options happens to be "Linux Games", which is sitting so very lonely at 11%. " I remember the sheer hours Rob whilled away at Leisure Suit Larry. Of course, I only got Outpost, which the first time around stunk.
I've found that the ol' Sierra games run GREAT under DosEMU. (I just beat SQ3 again yesterday...)
-Jared Maguire
jared@ccs.neu.edu
The polls are useless in any case (all self-selected polls are useless).
/.'ers are likely to lie (i.e. "would you buy for Linux?"), but in this case the question is of a kind that most /.'ers are likely to answer truthfully.
I agree nonetheless that refering to pools where
Posted by My_Favorite_Anonymous_Coward:
see title
It looks like the frames are messed up. I see four Sierra logos and two toolbars and an 404 Not Found in the main window... strange. Might be a NS 4.51 problem...?
Ohh yeah, Leisure Suit Larry the tarball.
But isn't the purpose of the Doomsday machine lost if you keep it a secret!
Well this is an interesting turn of events. If you've been watching the Sierra site lately, you'll see that the Mac and Linux users are duking it out pretty feverishly. 5 minutes ago Mac was up to 60% and now it's down to about 50% running neck and neck with Linux. Whoop. Now it's back up. Now it's back down. This is fun!
Years ago, I bought many Sierra games. I had *all* of the Space Quest series (all of them that would run in DOS anyway). I also had most of the Kings Quest series as well. In addition to that, I had Freddy Pharkas Frontier Pharmacist and a few others. I had all of this because I loved their games.
Once they made their games Windows-only, I refused to purchase any more (because I could not play them). I vaguely remember something about sending them an e-mail about this, but I could have been mistaken...
Anyway, I love Sierra games and would run out to purchase any Linux ports, ESPECIALLY any Space Quest ones.
I was at Fry's on Friday and they still don't have it, they said to check back in a few weeks. They sales people seem to know that linux games will be coming in, which I think is a good sign.
I just voted, and it's Mac 55%, Console, DVD and PC 0% (actually 2% divided among the 3 of em, I'd guess), linux games 43%
:)
I guess somebody posted the poll in a Mac-news page
Vox
Pain is the gift of the gods, and I'm the one they chose as their messanger...
Maybe it's something along the lines of: the necessities should be free, but I'll pay for luxuries.
--
Are the other polls self-selected as well?
In that case, all you can conclude is that the self selection bias of your Internet active listeners aren't very different from the self selection bias of your listeners in general.
Maybe perhaps it's time to vote again if you
1) Have actually installed Linux
2) Have actually gotten your sound card and video card properly configured in Linux
3) Actually intend on supporting Sierra in a Linux game development effort.
I voted because I would definitely buy a Sierra game if it were released for Linux. Heck, if Half-Life were out for Linux, I'd be camping out at the software store!
Games for Linux are just about ready to explode. We're going from "no games at all" to "an explosion of new games" in a really short time. It's hectic. I love it.
It's up to 68%. The next closest is 18%. As soon as this was posted on Slashdot, there was no doubt Linux Games was going to win.
Even if Linux currently makes up 5 - 6 % of home PC OSs, any company can still make money doing Linux games because the commercial Linux games market has so few competitors. In the WinXX world they have to compete with so many other games, but given the choice of Linux games, and the obvious want for them, they'd sell to a (relatively) large proportion of Linux users. Obviously this will help expand the market too.
I haven't bought CIV yet, but I have asked my CompUSA store to order it for me. They have tons of the Win95 version but none of the Linux version .
Its very very easy for a vendor to recover a poll from slashdot aberrations. The nice visible spike makes it easy to drop results for a given time period, and also to drop results via referrer tracking.
Don't forget there is also a work in progress free player for the old Sierra games too.
Its now about 9:45 (Central) in the morning on beautiful Sunny day. By the time I read the message and went to vote over at Sierra, "Linux Games" was already up to 74%.
The power of Slashdot has no end. The only thing that worries me is that it could actually cause ill effects in the name of good. Lets say Sierra finds out that the story was posted on Slashdot. Now instead of seeing 74% (Or whatever it ends up at), they see a statistical sample that is not demographically correct.
Im sure most of you know, or feel, that most people view slashdot readers as "A Technically Elite Group. Now I personally dont believe this, but I must admit, most of the people I show Slashdot, view it as a "Geek's Page".
So now this 74%, has no bearing whatsoever on Sierra's decision to support Linux Games. Please tell me Im dreaming, cause I would hate to have the "Slashdot Effect" doing harm for the Linux movement.
-= Xafloc =-
alinuxbox.com
N
I was waiting on Fry's or some local store to carry it.
To be more exact the X is the capital chi greek letter.
And the chi is the initial letter of Christ.
Another symbol, the fish, is written in ancient greek as IXTUS
Iesus Xristos Teou Uios Soter : Jesus Christ Saviour Son of God.
All these symbology was necessary to notice the church inside the cathacombs during the roman persecutions.
Of course the simbology survive until now so that you can see X letter as fish represented inside some church walls.
Good bye Antonio.
I'm catholic and I find this post offensive.
We are just talking about linux not about the christian polithical orientation inside the USA.
By the way, yes I voted linux at Sierra site just because I'ld buy a linux game, better if translated in italian as their windows versions.
If you dislike this please don't target the linux comunity, just say "I dislike Linux".
Goodbye,
Antonio
I for one would like to see Sierra steer thier
:)
aquisition Papyrus to release thier Nascar Racing
series to linux. Doubtful though, as Papyrus's
latest (Grand Prix Legends) and future releases
(Nascar 2000) seem to be deeply embedded in
DirectX 6.
If they could do this, it would remove my reasons
for booting to windows at all.
I could dream, cant I?
i just voted and noticed that the linux games is only at 44% :( just a little puzzeled :)
maybe some there has caught on to the slashdotting effect
Wrong, it is time to vote again if you can honestly answer the question being asked:
In what direction do you think Sierra Studios
should expand their gaming expertise?
Answering the stated question honestly is _all_ you can reasonably be requested to do in a poll.
Funny you should ask. There's an interpreter available:
LAGII 0.1.5
Peace.
Whoah, So much anger...
So y'all are saying the poll hasn't been thrown out a little?
Think about this. How many sites are there athat console, mac, windows, etc devotees check almost daily? And how many of those sites do you think announced sierra's poll? Now how many people do you think just happened to check the Sierra site since the poll went up?
On the other hand, If Sierra is dopey enough to take this as a statistically sound survey, well that's gotta be more games for linux, which is good. Might prompt more developement in the video driver spectrum, too.
anyone remember that great fun game for the IBM XT/AT age? all in CGA glory too -- i'd love an online multiplayer, full 24 bit colour version of it today ... hehe ...
I guess Sierra's web page just doesn't expect to get very many hits at all. Or at least, 'informed' good voting citizens.
--
-- Spankmeister General
70% Mac
26% Linux
3200 votes
Kindly tell the rest of us who would like to see more games on linux why it is wrong to say "we would like more games on linux" when asked.
Hey, /. effect is definately working. The poll has been changed to What upcoming Studios game would you like to see ported to Linux? (the choices are TeamFortress 2, Pharaoh, Homeworld, Gabriel Knight 3, Babylon 5 )
Polls are all fine and dandy until someone loses an eye,..
We can click, click and even click again and vote for more Linux games, but at some point someone is going to look at the refer log and see all these people who voted and all these people who came from Slash. I think they'll put two and two together.
It's great they put the option in the poll, but I myself make a habit of sending off an e-mail or two directed at software companies asking for Linux stuff.
Personally myself, I would take a hard drive full of "more Linux stuff" e-mail over a web poll anyday.
I think e-mailing these companies and asking WHEN such and such software is going to be released would be more effective.
But,.. that's just me.
My studio - www.graylands.ca
"Linux games" has dropped to 50%, and "Mac games" is already up to 44%!
\\'
Every Lynx user who visits the page gets this:
" We've identified that you are using a browser that does not support
frames. Our site uses frames, so the time is perfect for you to
upgrade, join the times and have a frame-supporting browser."
Heh. Yet another M$ conspiracy? Yes I think so.
Yes, apparently the Mac users woke up and are counterattacking in force. I guess one more reason why they'll dump the results of the poll...
This (I believe) is not a poll to see whether they should concentrate on Mac or Linux or Windows, or even what sort of market share each os has (others do that), but whether the Mac and Linux markets are big enough for them to bother with. I would say that with ~15k responses, the markets are big enough.
Bill - aka taniwha
--
Leave others their otherness. -- Aratak
Cendant sold Sierra to Havas. Sierra closed a couple of the many divisions, namely the ones in Oakhurst, CA. There are still plenty of other divisions.
Yes folks,
It was a blatantly flawed example. You'll all be pleased to know that as of this morning, I've signed up for Ex-Christian Anger Management therapy. There I hope to learn how to...how you say...LIGHTEN UP!!!!
Linux may only own 6 or 7 percent of the total market, but it's a 6 or 7 percent that would generally be willing to purchase ports of existing titles. Porting a game costs a hell of a lot less than developing one from scratch, so for a relatively small investment, you can breathe new life into your existing games. And if you write new titles with an eye to portability, your return on your investment will be even higher.
Just bought Quake I, but QII was already sold out!
Talk about an excercise in fixing a survey. They reset it yet another time... sometime around 7pm est. This is like the 4th time or so.
It's still statisticlly valid, it just has a different meaning. In this case it means "Of the group of people who visited this site and participated in the poll, who want's what?". That's usualy all that an internet poll can mean.
-- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
from 11% to 59%.
mjt
-----------
-----------
100% pure freak
...if you voted before the numbers were reset.
i dualboot 98 and Be, and were it not for games i could drop 98 without a second thought... Be is a fine technical os, and it would be a shame to see it go to waste without proper developer support..
tchort
I absolutely agree!
Too bad another option wasn't list on the poll:
* Make some GOOD games on any platform
Well, it looks like the games market has finally seen the light. Once the first few companies get involved, market pressure pushes everybody else into the ring. I'm glad to see this happen. For so many of us, Windows resided on a spare partition _just_ so we can play games. Now if Blizard would just start releasing Linux games, we'd be set.
-earl
Posted by Nericus:
The poll results aren't unbiased...but they show the market share of Linux users out there...One thing I'm curious about tho...What's "Stay focused on PC games" supposed to mean? Linux/DVD are both "PC" capable...that's Windows in disguise. The poll is skewed in creation... More Mac 48% Linux 50% votes 6401
Accually, A LOT of win9x games would love to see stuff written for linux, most of them say "Yeh i'd use linux if it had more games"
I mean, Linux is pretty easy to get going on, sure there will be bumps no doubt.
Accually, i'd like to see more BeOS games out as well, that OS looks pretty cool too.
I'm afraid the survey is lost already, according to me, a huge voting war is taking place, through which sierra cannot possibly learn anything... except maybe that mac and linux users like to vote incessantly. I even fear they may have (last time I checked) falsified their results, since before the reset nearly no one had voted on console games. One thing is sure, there seems to be a demand for porting gaming software to both systems, but from the moment they have reset the poll, no extra information could be gleaned.
If one would check the previous polls, the average number of participants was around 1500; which means that the usual visitor's votes are drowned in the 'war'.
On the other hand, how many people regularly visit "sierrastudios.com"?? Who would have even found this site and thier poll had it not been for Slashdot? I had actually thought Sierra had fired everyone and was gone based on a Slashdot story a few months back. I think coming back as a Linux games company would be great for both them and all of the rapidly growing Linux user base!!
but on that self-same note, if bluesnews.com, planetquake.com, planethalflife.com, stomped etc all posted 'Hey sierra has a poll that calls for a gamer's vote, go look' there would be a FLOOD of windows9x users saying, hey yeah, concentrate on MY games..
tchort
Self-selected polls are _never_ representative, on the Internet or elsewhere.
Is there a force stronger than the
Note: this was as of 10:30 a.m. PDT with ~3500 votes
More Mac Games:
|||||
(7%)
Console Games:
||||
(0%)
DVD Games:
|||
(5%)
Linux Games:
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
(75%)
Stay focused on PC
Games:
|||||
(11%)
--- As of May 30, 1999 11:07am
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon? :P)
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't.
(/flame)possibly because of the M$ in MSNBC
The message; There's a pretty fanatical market out there for both Linux AND Mac games. I'd bet that all those people who got iMacs for Christmas would jump at the chance to play TeamFortress2.
Surf to Hoyle Games to play some Internet multiplayer games where the servers are running on Linux.
Well, the votes biased, but i'll buy the game when they come out. That's all that matters.
-- "It has recently been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."
Port what? The old games were interpreted. There's a linux interpreter called Sarien here
--"In dreams begin responsibilities" - Delmore Schwartz
yeah, I posted that (1000 votes) before I looked at the dates/times. I also didn't realise yesterday was a holiday for Americans. Much better now.
:)
I didn't like the format of the poll - what if you wanted more than one game, or older games or whatever. So emailed the webmaster and told him they should release source code for the "obsolete" ones.
I've got nearly every Sierra game worth having (that is to say, the non-scary ones), and I'll buy Linux versions if they produce 'em. It's one HECK of a lot easier than dealing with DOS nonsense.
-russ
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
and rising... ;)
you think we are biased???
naahhhhhh......
Why can't I select more than one? What about an "all of the above" option. Why would I only want one sierra game for Linux? :-)
I remember once, /. /.'ed a MSNBC poll. I don't remember exactly what it was, it was a long time ago.. But I do remember that MSNBC took down the poll after we skewed it.
Sierra Studios: I'm happy to vote with my dollars for Linux games -- I've bought many games in the past, and wrote "support Linux!" on each product registration card.
I'd probably even buy some games that I wouldn't have otherwise if they were made available in Linux versions.
I for one don't have a problem paying for software in general. It's platform-type stuff that I have a problem with, and simple utilities I could write myself but don't want to take the time.
;-)
Windows has tons of Shareware authors trying to make $5 here and $10 there on simple utilities, all of which are free for Linux. On the other hand, I have already payed good money for Civ:CTP, Hopkins FBI, and WABI (so I could run my company's proprietary Win 3.1 software, which didn't run properly under WINE).
So, I think if you find the right market, people will pay for Linux software. Just don't try to sell Office software for home use
Life's a lot like money-- you spend it, then it's gone. Spend wisely.
Folks, don't bother with this vote. It will reset after about 5000 votes. This is futile.
I preordered it, and its great :) Definately a good purchase.
If your local CompUSA and such don't have it, consider ordering it online. It costs about the same, and that way you know you're going to get it, as opposed to waiting until the stores decide to carry it.
-[Blaine]- "'Oh dear,' says God, 'I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic."
Then bundle the interpreter and all the old game datafiles in a nice package, and sell it for Linux.
Which means that you need to vote again...
(Off topic item: HotJava sucks ! I am trying it out because
Netscape 4.5X got the infamous "Bus Error" back again with Java apparently (Got
to wonder about that...). It's so slow that it is unable to keep up with a user
when they are typing- it gets all the keypunches, but when they get to
the edit field, they get jumbled all up. Example: I'm ytping ta normal pseed and s
ee what BS acme out...)
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
I've watched the poll since early this morning. It appears that the poll has been reset at least twice. The first reset came when Linux had nearly 75% of the vote - and 2500 votes were cast away. Next, Linux and Mac were neck in neck, with Mac having the slight lead, in over 4000 votes - at which point after, it was reset. It's 2:30 Central (US) and the poll shows almost 2300 votes, with a Linux percentage of 63%.
I wonder if someone is resetting the data because they don't like the results, or if their poll data is saved to another file and then reset so visitors feel that their vote carries more weight.
Linux - Because Mommy taught me to Share.
As long as they don't release every game at the same time and expect every linux user to go on a shopping spree.
The ship sank. Get over it. (This sig was cut out from another's shirt and painstakingly hand-posted)
Garumph! It seems to be broken. I've tried to submit my vote several times, and the results still site at zero! Maybe it's because I'm behind a firewall. Anybody else have any luck?
'net polls have never had any statistical value.
If the Sierra executives actually believe that they can read anything out of the results of this one, then they'll get what they deserve- A whole new market and thousands of happy Linux gamers.
Er. Well, maybe that's not what they'd deserve.
Oh, Linux is in the lead now with 60%, Mac on 37%
Anyone, however literate, who dares to disagree with the Glorious Linux Party Line, gets a "Troll" label on their moderation line.
Chairman Mao would be a happy camper on Slashdot, methinks.
Posted by majestic1:
I said that I would buy it, and Ive been looking at my local Best Buy and CompUSA almost every weekend... maybe it's time to order online or something.
Actually, the results of the poll at this moment look just about normal. (I don't think very many people must have voted at the time the poll was noticed.) I mean, sure, Linux Games has 49%, Mac Games has 48%, but look at the other choices. Console games, DVD games, and "stay focussed on PC games."
Let's face it, among people likely to be browsing to a webpage, PCs, Linux, and Mac are about the only systems (DVD isn't really a "system", and anything Sierra develops will probably eventually come out on DVD anyway, if only in one of those "5 old but neat games for $20" collections) that they're seriously going to be interested in. And they've got plenty of stuff out for PCs already.
About all that should really interest them, I think, would be the overall numbers.
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
So many turn into activists when doing so is simple.
Ayup.. looks like its been slashdotted.. up to
72% now after my vote.
They will probably look at thier referrer logs
and see that they have been truly slashdotted and
throw the results away anyways.
Well, the # of Mac users was minimal just a little while ago, now they're well over 50%.
Xianity.
Cool, At least I know I'm not the only pagan/geek to use the term.
-- 100% MS-Free as of 4-4-1999, 11:47:38 PST. "The lapdance is always better when the stripper is cryin'" Free Kevin,
What part of the logic chain am I missing?
1. PHB wishes to know if there is some intrest in a particular branch of development.
2. Poll is established and 6000 people vote for linux.
3. PHB says, "Hmm, that's interesting. Tell me more, lets get some numbers and ask a consulting firm or two..."
No company or business is going to base developer decisions on an online poll, whether they get 6 votes total or 100,000 for linux. They are gauging (sp?) an intrest level. So what if slashdot sends a very large number of linux zealots over? They are still each and every one a potential customer, and a company likes to find a new market with lots of customers.
If some mac evangelista site links the poll, they would have every chance to flood the poll too, and that might be listened to as well.
There is also a final possibility, one I know from personal experience: Maybe the PHB's Number One is a big time reader of slashdot and is trying to steer his boss into learning something about linux. In a seemingly innocuous poll they get a LARGE amount of linux intrest. Mission Accomplished.
Check my Go-related blog for beginners: DGD
Well throghout the day the counter has been up and down, but I think this time they will not reset it again, there has been about 7000 votes, and most of them are from mac users that in about 15 min have changed from 33% to 45%.
Newsflash: Sierra mail server crashes from well-meaning repentent SlashDot poll-swayers.
I'd just like to note that Sierra(/Valve) does already do some Linux stuff. There is a Linux version of the Half-Life server out. No client yet, though...and frankly, I would love to see that. I'd pay the $50 all over again to be able to play it under Linux.
So I think that there is a pretty good chance of them listening to the fact that there have been so many Linux responses on the poll, even if they throw out the numbers themselves.
Now, if we just had some decent 3D drivers for TNT cards for Linux...
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
A halflife/TFC/TF2 client would just about send me into spasms, personally. ;) I was fortunate enough to be on the betatest team for the halflife SERVER, at least.
--
rickf@transpect.SPAM-B-GONE.net (remove the SPAM-B-GONE bit)
"People will pay big bucks for the luxury of ignorance."
--
Come on, I've been reading comments from people worrying about skewed polls, businesses being misinformed, and so on...
;-)
I think we worry too much about it.
Someone else already commented that the results of such polls most probably will be used to see if there are markets to be researched.
Just looking at the pollresults they will be likely to realise they've gotten themselves into the middle of a Mac vs. Linux voting war.
Internet poll results are *always* biased!
First of all there still are people that do not have access to Internet.
Besides that, only people that know about the poll get to vote in it. There must be dozens of polls on subjects I think I have something to say about, but I just don't have the time (or interest) to visit all the sites that may carry those polls. Occasionaly I stumble on a poll (most of the time thanks to sites like slashdot...) and vote as my conscience tells me to
The fact Sierra seemed to have reset the scores is probably an indication about the importance of the poll. They have learned that they should investigate both Mac and Linux markets.
With this sort of poll, they're not truely after percentages (unlike, say, electoral polls). What they are after is shear numbers. Lets say that 6000 Windows users vote: that would probably lead to 90% (5400) voting for Windows games. This doesn't mean alot really: Sierra already does Windows games. Now lets say 80000 Slashdotters vote, leading to something like still mean nothhing, but the absolute numbers reveal that there is a potential Linux market of at least 56000 customers, probably more as this is only a small portion of the Linux community. Lets say Sierra makes $20 a pop for each game: by these numbers alone, they could get $1,120,000 from the Linux market, likely more. Would you sneer at such figures? I wouldn't, I'ld be saying gimme gimme gimme! (and get that game out). Oh, and they'ld probably achieve such figures on an old game (eg Kings/Space Quest), let alone a new one. It would cost them, what, $50-100k, to do the port? 900% profits. Very good for the bottom line.
Bill - aka taniwha
--
Leave others their otherness. -- Aratak
How are these votes any less valid because they all happened in a short time? Let the MAC, Win and console players post the link on their fan sites and go vote.
:-)
This isn't like the hank-the-angry-drunken-dwarf farce from people magazine's poll. There people were making a point that web popularity polls for 'beautiful people' was subject to ridicule by the large majority of net users.
Here we have a legit poll on the potential audience for games developed for specific platforms. I hope they recognize that linux users are a valuable segment, regardless of the time interval in which we cast our votes.
If nothing else, they must recognize the capability we have to somewhat organize ourselves and make our collective presence known. This in itself can be valuable market research data which they can incorporate into whatever strategy develops from this poll.
Let's keep on voting today again, yesterday's answer to the poll did have an effect, other wise todays poll would of been something like "which games do you want to be ported to mac" and not to linux how the poll is now...
let's vote and proove them that they do have a whole market waiting for their games...
I hasn't been removed, it's still there.. 4069 votes and rising, linux games category down to 47% and losing ground.
/. has referred the page, just open up a new browser and type www.sierrastudios.com in the locator..
If you don't want them to be able to check that
I voted for more linux games because I want more linux games. Got civ CTP and want more. Yeah, I wouldn't have known about the poll save for slashdot, but my vote was honest. I don't think people will vote for linux games if they won't buy them---really, who would just push the button because the word "linux" appears?
Peace.
Okay, the poll is working now, but we have to live up to our side of the bargain -- at least 9,000 people said "we want to see Sierra games on Linux" Well, Sierra listened, and have now put up a poll asking what games we want. Guess what, only ~900 have answered that question so far. So are we for real? Or what?
Posted by My_Favorite_Anonymous_Coward:
I think when the game companies become bigger, the decisive factor of a game weight more toward marketing, directing, the cost of making multi-platform games wouldn't be that big a concern anymore. Now making a game is just like getting a script approved, getting the green light.
The demographics of linux users is largely males from 18-35. This same niche buys the most computer games. Indeed, the businesses using linux in the closet as a server won't be buying games, but that really isn't the largest demographic (it's a growing one, of course.)
I talked with some guys from Loki at the linux expo and fired by the success of their Civ CTP port, they have begun work on MythII and Railroad Tycoon for linux. Look, if the code is written it can be ported to linux, especially if it uses openGL or something besides DriectX (like Half-Life.) It's not going to be a huge ante to "...BET ON LINUX." Even if it works out, it won't be as expensive as creating and marketing a single flop game. (And remember how games were all for dos, then for windows? That's recent history, don't forget. Platforms change.)
Windows isn't a bad gaming platform with DirectX, but eventually people are going to realize that it's silly to support a seperate OS just for games. I have windows95, but I have no plans to upgrade it just to play games. When games begin to require 98 or NT or 2000, I will not be able to play them. I do all my work on Linux and Solaris and it's insane to buy a gaming OS for $200. I'd rather spend $150 on a console system.
Peace.
Well, last time I checked, there's a ton of Mac advocacy sites out there: Mackido, Mac Addict, Inside Mac Games to name a few.
There also used to be a mailing list called the EvangeList which pointed readers towards these sorts of polls, but I think it's gone now.
This seem to be one of their most succesfull polls.
When you check the past poll the higher responses they had was 5847 and the average is 1500-2000 responses. Now that they are between a Linux-Mac war they are up to 13000 responses (and they already have reset the counter). This is funny to look at this little war.
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates,
Gee, this is sorta like war, huh? They will probably disregard the results anyway but this is entertaining. Gee, I wonder who would win?
--
i would really like to play TFC under linux :)
"I know Gentoo" - "Show me"
It's 12:00 noon EST and the results are:
Mac 48%
Linux 49%
all others 0%
Total votes 583.
Just a few minutes ago, total votes where 105. Hit Reload, and total votes are 716. No wait..1001.
Hmm....
Looks like this has also been posted on a Mac site, and the combined effect is spinning it's counter. If I where a PHB interpreting the results, I'd say there where some markets that we weren't taking seriously enough.
As to whether I'd buy them... I refuse to buy games for Windows now because I want my home to be a Micro$oft free zone. Any game available for Linux would then be able to sell to me based on it's own merits, not on the OS. (I can't count the times a game has crashed Windows.)
The poll has changed. They are no longer asking IF you would like to see Linux support. They are now asking WHICH upcoming game you would like to see ported! :)
Boy, I sure hope you are all planning to BUY these games if they do port them...
How many people bought Civilization now it came out for linux? i am wondering if as many people bought it as they claimed they would. any one have any mnumbers?
Too bad, I would rush out to buy Half-Life if it was released for Linux. I very much enjoyed playing it on my roommate's Windows computer.
Okay, the polls would still be accurate under this assumption: everyone that voted has linux properly installed, and has their sound card and video card working at a faily reliable level.
Now what's more plausible? The assumption or the fact that this is an online mob. Distributed networking: yes. Distributed Poll-swaying: no.
Loki says they've got a distribution contract but I'll be damned if I can find any evidence that they're going to get it in. Last week Loki said that it should be hitting the big stores this week so maybe I'll finally be able to pick it up. If I don't see anything by Friday I'll just order it off their web site.
Good Im not alone. While the "Slashdot Effect" allows us all to feel part of "Powerful Group", we quite possibly could be shooting ourselves in the foot.
I do disagree with you on your statement "Internet polls are of no statistical value". I am working with a company that does radio research for several Radio Stations, online. The polls that are taken, are taken by listeners of the radio station, with there own login/password. This type of "Internet Poll", can be powerful, and yet still be statistically acurate.
But I would agree with you if it were "Open For Public Internet Polls are of no statistical value".
-= Xafloc =-
alinuxbox.com
N
I don't care about all this new stuff. I want
the old AGI games. I would like to play all
these on my linuxbox if I had all my old disks.
And there is an interprenter for linux:
Sarien
(It just chokes on the cracked Goldrush i tried
instead of my broken 5 1/4 inch disk)
Yet Another Debian User
I'd buy Halflife for Linux. So, I went over and voted for them to focus on Linux games. What is the problem here?
Sierra is on a downhill slide. Closing the shop that did all the really good stuff for years and firing everyone was the first nail.
On the other hand, I started to lose interest in the whole genre when they started publishing the exclusively mouse driven interface. Get stuck? Just click randomly everywhere until something happens. Perhaps that's a game design problem as much as an interface problem.
You have made many interesting points, but I just want to point one thing out. If you have played half-life you have probably noticed that you have a choice of running it in Direct3D or OpenGL. My friend chooses to run it in OpenGL simply because it looks and runs better. So I don't know about "It would cost millions and years of rewriting code in opengl for it to be ported to linux". Btw, DirectseX can eat my balls, I always liked OpenGL more. Just my too sense.
Your Momma's so fat she makes emacs look like nano!
Do you think they might be getting suspicious yet?
I'd play a krondor game on linux; if i had
it i'd play it all the time. I'd pay for that.
Sierra games have never been among the most expensive, and they've delivered consistently
good stuff since the early days of microcomputer
games.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
Again, since this is a catch-22 situation (some people will keep using Windows for the games, and games will be made mostly for Windows as long as most people keep sticking to Windows) it'd make sense to support WINE as much as possible, in order to make some games playable under Linux. If more people can then keep using Linux for their favourite games instead of using a dual-boot setup for the occasional game break, and if game publishers start getting questions about using the games under WINE (OK, that's a bit far-fetched), they might consider better support for Linux... In any case, WINE is a good effort and those purists who shun it are those who'd rather keep Linux in a niche.
"I love my job, but I hate talking to people like you" (Freddie Mercury)
Hmm, but wait. Even though Slashdot led many Linux users to the poll page, there ARE many Linux users wanting/needing new games. Just because we are more organized and determined than Windows users doesn't mean our votes don't count. :)
So, the only valid votes are those Windows users who are visiting Sierra's site for info on Windows games on their x86 PCs, right?
/me sighs...
Linux is a very nice system to develop on in general, but it has a ways to go before it can attract *lots* of game developers. Specifically, Linux needs to offer a nice set of application programming interfaces (APIs) for functionality such as:
o input devices -- USB joysticks, steering wheels
o graphics -- OpenGL is the right direction here
o *sound* We need interfaces that can really take advantage of features offered by kick-ass new sound cards like the Creative SBLive! and Diamond MX300 (environmental effects, positional audio, etc.)
As Linux users continue to grow in number, more game developers will start to see us as a viable market. Some really cool companies (such is id software) are already porting their games to Linux. But there *are* some technical barriers as well -- basically, Linux should offer APIs that cover the same *functionality* as Microsoft DirectX. I know there are some talented people working on this stuff, and I'm excited to see the results in the next year or two.
Linux is such a nice system technically, that with a large userbase willing to *pay* for games, and some really nice APIs to attract game developers, we'd get lots of cool games running natively under Linux. And you know what that means: one less reason to have Windows installed.
I just voted and linux games is at 48% with mac games in the lead at 50%. Nothing else is even close really.
Hey Sierra, your old games are still worth playing. Port 'em to Linux. The DOS versions should port pretty easily, since they don't
require an awful lot of the machine.
-russ
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
Although I agree with your point that internet polls aren't of any real statistical value, I have to say that if I see a Linux game related poll, I'm going to go push the button next to Linux. I beta tested Civ:ctp for Linux and prepurchased the game. If there were more Linux games, and better vendor supported GL drivers for Linux I could blow away the Windows partition on my game box. However, since there isn't widespread support for Linux as a gaming platform, and because I can't possibly know what a vendors reason for putting Linux games on a poll is, I will continue to push that Linux button. If only to maintain the hope that more commercial game developers will port games to Linux.
I don't know about the rest of 'em, but I'm a long time Mac user (dual booting MkLinux for almost a year now), and I came across the story on Slashdot. A real quick check thru my favorite Mac sites doesn't have any mention of this poll.
Given that the MacOS is soon to move to a BSD base, I would imagine a lot of Mac fans are sampling the *nixes that are available and have gotten turned on to Slashdot.
"I have a cunning plan..."
What's with this crappy poll anyway? They've
just arbitrarily dumped all those Linux votes.
Vote again I say!
The poll is up to 69% for linux games. Let's all hope that they take the poll seriously and concentrate on expanding their efforts to linux.
Back before i had linux in the late 80's and Early 90's I was a big Sierra Fan and their games were my favoret. Then I switch to linux back in 94 and ask Sierra to think about Linux ports. And I got a unpleasent e-Mail back saying that I should stay with windows. Well I havent played any new Sierra Games on my computer sience Qest for Glory IV which I had to reboot to DOS ( a rariety ). But because of this pole even if we are second to the Mac Users Sierra has gotten the message that we are out their and are willing to play games native to linux.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Excuse me, but I didn't see Hemos tell anyone to go vote. He merely said that it's there. The feeling seems to be strong, and doubtless for the same reason many/most of those voting will rush out and buy the first few Linux games to show support.
--
Personally I clicked one time. I'd be more than happy to give them my cash if they'd make some (good) Linux games.
Windows has detected a mounse movement of > 5cm. Please reboot for changes to take effect.
I see they've flushed the survey so the Linux votes are gone. I'm confused, what's the point of a survey if you don't show what people choose? Might as well just say "Everyone likes wintel because we're telling you so."
Also, when you have no products available for Linux, the audience of your web site is going to be all wintel/mac. If they say "See, no one wants Linux games." it couldn't come as much of a suprise seeing as no Linux users were there in the first place.
It's similar bad surveying when a Linux advocacy site has a 'Best OS' poll. Obviously you're going to see 99% or so point to Linux, because they're all Linux users!
I think it's perfectly valid that the URL to that survey appear in Linux/win/mac advocacy sites and that those votes are counted. It's just plain stupid to expect an already filtered web audience to give you a comprehensive market survey.
If 300 thousand /.ers head over to Sierra's page and say they want more Linux games, Sierra will know they have at least 300 thousand people who are into Linux and at least vaguely interested in seeing Sierra games ported to the platform. That's an fairly considerable market.
So, there's nothing to get suspicious of; let the slashdot effect do its work. The worst that can happen is that they'll decide there's not enough interest to port their games.
----
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
Why shouldn't the Mac get the second-best following?
All the other choices in the poll are essentially non-choices.
DVD games? What does this mean? Won't they end up putting their games on DVD anyway, once the standard settles in?
Console games? What serious console gamer is going to find his way to the webpage of a manufacturer of computer-only games?
Don't expand? Who's going to choose that? One game on more platforms is always better than the same game on fewer.
The Mac and Linux choices are the only ones there that people who vote there would possibly care to place a vote for. So, if someone isn't a Linux person, of course he'll choose Mac, or else he just won't vote.
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
Posted by FascDot Killed My Previous Use:
The Incredible Machine for Linux would ROCK!!!
64% and rising...
--
"Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
Posted by antivert:
What would they be getting suspicious of? Linux users and game buyers participating in their poll? Remember.. just because we're a large community doesn't mean we're not a real one.
It brings to mind something someone said about Howard Stern's movie. "Well yeah, the only reason it even sold tickets was because his fans went!" They equated his fans with him, being on "his side" and therefore not being real people. It seems blatantly obvious to the rest of us. =)
It's the same with linux. Yes, we're a big community, and our voice counts. The other sections of that poll could never get the kind of support that we show.. do not think that this is cheating! I'd buy sierra games for linux. Enough said.
I knew this. Unfortunately I knew this long enough ago that I forgot I knew it. I making myslef look like a fool left and right.
It seems as though the message has gotten through, the new poll on the Sierra's website asks "What upcoming Studios games would you like to see ported to Linux?"
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." - Thomas Jefferson
If you look at the numbers, you'll notice that the poll was reset. This means that about 2000 linux votes were lost (vs. about 400 MacOS votes). :-)
This is going to be interesting
I would. It gives me a warm fuzzy feeling to push Linux buttons.
Hey, I worry more about the Mind-Numbed Robots from the National Government Radio crowd.
So there, you Christian-hating liberals aren't the only bigots around.
Anyway, I've got a bunch of their DOS games, I have a regular museum here. I've told them I'm waiting for the Linux ports.
And if you haven't noticed, the number of votes has gone from the low thousands DOWN to about 350. It looks like Sierra is trying to counter the 'SlashDot Defect' by perhaps resetting the polls.
Newsflash: Slashdot effect moves from sinking websites to sinking gaming companies by swaying their online marketing studies.
Posted by kenmcneil:
All very good points...I'd like to add one though. The typical Linux user has a predisposition against anything with a price tag. This does not neccesarily mean that Linux users are cheap, only that they (and I) enjoy the convenience of yanking all there software off an ftp site and never leaving their home. For this reason I am sceptical of the potential sales of any commercial product that does not follow the model of Corel and Star Divions (i.e. free non-commercial licensing).
Explain that the people Im working with on this. The polls that are being done, is the rating of songs played on the Radio Station. The data they come with from the Internet Polls are within 5% of any other polls that they do.
-= Xafloc =-
alinuxbox.com
N
The point of the poll is to get an idea on what areas of game development have the largest need. If I was a decision maker at Sierra, and I saw how one single post on a web site can spawn thousands to jump to their site for a poll, I would not view the poll as tainted. I would see a market of computer users that WANT games, the type/style/manufacturer may not be the top concern to them, but they want quality games. With developers like Activision (C:CTP) and ID (Q3) jumping on the Linux bandwagon, they also will see that it is not uncharted waters and may start looking seriously at it.
At the worst case, this can't hurt so if want good games for Linux, vote.
--- Linux... a college project gone horribly right
The polls have no statistical value, but can still have commercial value. A poll like this will make people aware of their interest in making something for linux.
What better way to get free advertisement space on slashdot than putting up a poll on the web site about a possible port?
Hans
Indeed, I certainly would never have just traipsed passed there of an evening and bumped into the poll. Not that I don't like Sierra games on the contrary I do, but I had just resigned myself to them not caring about what I wanted (oh what a terrible M$ legacy ;) )
It is great that they want a poll at all but I am even more impressed that they decided to ask the right question. After all if they did not want to know how well their games would be received on Linux they didn't HAVE to put it down as one of the options!
I think it is more interesting to note that the Mac is getting the next best following. Perhaps if you asked them if they would prefer games on the Mac or games for Linux ON A Mac instead the results would be different :)
Rooster - A friend. "Anyone's friend in particular or just generally well disposed to people?"
AFAIK, there are three free work-in progress players (LAGII and Sarien for AGI and FreeSCI for SCI).
BTW: Does anyone have an idea of whether LAGII or Sarien performs better?
Most Linux users _dont_ buy games, because most games/software are free. Granted there are those of us who would buy games for Linux, were they available, there is still a rather large group of Linux users who like Linux because almost everything is free.
Sierra has to determine whether or not investing their design time, can show profit, or just give them good Linux PR. I vote for the second.
-= Xafloc =-
alinuxbox.com
N
Can you imagine them even putting Linux as a choice a year ago? ...two years ago?
Don't worry, be happy.
chris
San Francisco values: compassion, tolerance, respect, intelligence
Posted by antivert:
"nt" means "no text in the comment".
More Mac Games: 38%
Console Games: 0%
DVD Games: 0%
Linux Games: 60%
Stay Focused On PC Games: 0%
Total votes: 1868
Keep it up! Linux is still winning!
Didn't Cendant close Sierra On-Line's doors a few months ago and lay off all the programmers?
Is this a new company just re-using the old name?
--
Clear, Dark Skies
The problem is linux only owns around 6 to 7% of the total pc market sales of os's and most of those copies are just sitting under someones desk. They are used as an evaluation tool or someone takes a course in unix in college and needs it but I bet over half of the linux buyers switch back to windows because only windows does ms vb and ms vc or ms office. Its a very sad world in the pc market today. My other point is even if 100% of all those buyers of linux actually ran it, how many of them would buy games. Most college students and server administrators dont buy games or dont have the time. I am a student and hobbyist but I quite games over a year ago so I can work. I might play half-life this summer if it is ever ported to linux but were are all very tiny in the pc market thanks to monopolies. My last point and most important one is that the current poll at 75% is not accurate thanks to the /. effect. If 100% off all 6 to 7% of linux users who actual use it and on top of that have time for games and on top of that dont use corporate servers so they can play games buy all these linux games, then it would be a flop. Think about how much it would cost to switch a directx 6 game to linux. The whole gaqme would have to be rewritten. Only Id software had the balls to go agaisnt the microsoft game marketing department which actually punishes game companies for not developing with directx. Its true. Go to www.maximumpc.com and there is a guy named Alex st. john who was a former ms employee. He even admitted playing hardball with Carmack for opengl and he would actually follow them to game showes and make up fud like "glquake=glide quake. Opengl couldn't handle games,,,,". He also mentioned directx was designed from the ground up to thorw apple out of the game and multimedia market by making directx as proprietary and hard to port as possible. It would cost millions and years of rewriting code in opengl for it to be ported to linux for what..? only 300,000 users or around 2% of the market. It doesnt make any econimic sense and ms has them right where they want them. They would lose money left and right. I bet about 1 or 2% should be more acurate for there poll since 85% of all windows users do not want to leave. If sierra ported all there games to linux, they would lose so much money that all the other game companies would use serria as an example on why they shouldn't write for linux. CIV had only minimal if any directx code but half-life has hell of alot more. There is a huge, huge difference.
Before you guys start hopping mad and flame me and send my score down I have this to say. I do not intend to sound like a troll and I am not a troll. I am just trying to protect the overall success of linux becuase a story like "..BIG GAME COMPANY LOSES BET WITH LINUX" would be distarous. Remember that microsoft has a team of ten people looking for news like this to help spread fud around. We should all be emailing the doj and talking about directx with Ralph Naders pro comp or voluntering for messa or opengl for unix instead of hyping polls that dont give a accurate view on the overall market.
I wish ms would just shrivel up and die so we can have linux, be, os/2 and mac osx instead of this windows everwhere trash.
The poll now asks what game one would most like to see ported to Linux.
With the exception of polls where bad results are a good thing (i.e. should encryption be exportable), Malda stop doing polls quite a while ago. It's not right to skew the results to these companies, the long term results can be bad for the companies and the linux community (as horor stories of failed attempts to join the linux movement surface). You can't tell slashdotters not to fill out the poll only if you mean it, so lets stop giving these kind of polls to slashdotters.
By the time I've typed this, it'll be over 70%, probably over 90% in an hour, so they'll probably discount the results, the way ``Hank'' got mostly discarded as a joke for the personality of the year vote.
The question is, does this sort of thing frighten the pointy haired types at the companies that get hit by the slashdot effect ?
If the PHB says ``set up a poll'' and the results come back so radically screwed that there is clearly no statistical value in them (rather than being bogus, but looking all right, which would be the case sans slashdot
Perhaps Hemos should send an appology for screwing thier poll up, pointing out that Internet polls are of no statistical value, whatever the result.
--
Debian: GNU/Linux done the Linux way
Those kinds of polls are only useful when people who vote are a reasonably random sample of "normal" website visitors. I find it funny how naive people who think that the poll is still valid are. If Slashdot thinks that encouraging ballot stuffing is helping Linux's cause, they are very wrong. No reasonable software publisher would take those results seriously - even people who genuinely are interested in Linux ports but came to Sierra Studio's website only to vote shouldn't be counted. Are Linux users so insecure that they think the only way they can win is by cheating? If there really was interest in Linux games by Sierra, the percentage would be high without Slashdot's "intervention."