The premise that education and business have the same goals and should work by the same methods is absurd. Business is about being productive, education is about gaining skills and knowledge.
Me: WTF?!?
Seems to me you are asserting that business and education should have disjunct goals and methods.
Because none of us have ever had to write a convincing 20 page report on some topic that we thought was complete bullshit for our jobs. Dude, that was practically job training for large parts of corporate America. Think I'm joking? Ever had to write an evaluation of software for purchase, even though you know there is no money in the budget?
And what? Wasn't the lesson learnt properly?
When I'm asked to evaluate a software for purchase, my first step after reading a bit their site, I straightly call the producing/reseller company and tell them: "My specific is such and such. How does your product help me?"
Mod Parent +Insightful
Not saying that it is right (not saying it is wrong either), but provides a fresh and common-sense perspective from the position of an individual teacher (rather than dealing with society and statistics).
If I knew that the engineer who built a bridge I drive on cheated his way through college, I would feel that engineer should be held partially responsible for poor workmanship should that bridge fall apart, or not last as long as it should.
What if it doesn't?
What if, in spite of 2/3 of the students cheating, the WallStreet keeps ticking?
And, by getting away with it, I mean how do you overcome not having a fundamental understanding of content that might be a prerequisite to higher level classes? It would seem to be exponentially more difficult to cheat your way through classes since at some point in your last years you'll definitely have to be quizzed without a browser accessible.
The fact that you are paying for your so-called "education" keeps the farce still going. Education is no longer an art or a science, is an industry - the moment the profit takes a dip, the bar is lowered.
Well school is supposed to be about teachers measuring students ability to learn.
That's completely false, my friend. The school is suppose to be about teachers educating the students, with measuring the students progress - and not their ability to learn - only secondary to the education (i.e. a tool to use in teaching better). This mass-spread confusion between the purpose (education) and the mean (measuring) makes what we are seeing now as "education = graduation paper mills".
The problem(?) seems to be the oversight and need for standardization along with metrics. We're so caught up in making sure they can pass tests using rote memorization that we never focus on teaching them to make decisions.
The decision are taken by college-dropouts (see MS/Gates) or by cheaters. Everybody else don;t need to take decisions, just be productive and tame.
No, letting the joke aside, I do agree with you - just wanted to point a possible explanation to the state of facts (I'm not saying anything on how probable is the explanation).
The premise that education and business have the same goals and should work by the same methods is absurd. Business is about being productive, education is about gaining skills and knowledge.
You have already a absolute answer and no questions.Care to explain how come almost 2/3 of the students cheat? Is there no problem with the education/business system?
Oral explanation of results or answers on open-book exams worked fine.
Of course, you could argue those can be somewhat arbitrary.
Huh... even more. What, the current way of measuring is not arbitrary? Does the fact that the answers are pre-grilled is less arbitrary than a face-to-face discussion?
Teach not "what is the right answer?" but "Why is this answer right?" Teach not "what is X?" but "How does X change when Y is introduced?"
OK, how do you measure whether you've succeeded in teaching / the student has succeeded in learning those things in a way that is neither arbitrary, nor allows cheating?
Let me reply with another question: why measuring in a short time the outcomes of the education becomes more important than the education itself?
Perhaps that just means that the business world doesn't have any ethics or morals.
Perhaps the main reason the business world is geared towards results... you know? Like the annual stockholders meeting.
Granted, some more ethics wouldn't hurt... but I don;t think that being a/imoral is the main reason 61% of the students cheat - it's too high a number not to signal the potential of other problems with the education system. This is where the ability to ask why is more important than to ask how and what... an attitude that the today's academics seems to have lost long ago.
Yes, you can minimize opportunities to cheat with cleverer tests and/or assignments,
How about problem solving? How about the quality of a face-to-face argumentation?
Takes more time to test your students? Sure it takes, everything of quality takes time, this is why you are paid for, cheater!
Of course not! I would never cybercheat on my cybertests. Those cyberessays are just too vital to my growth as a cyberstudent. Cybercheating would be a cyberdisgrace to my cyberhonor.
Not to mention that your cyberparents and cyber-GF would not be happy at all.
They're pioneers in the same way that Richard Nixon pioneered the process of using plumbers in electoral politics. Just because the course requirements need revision is no excuse for cheating.
"no excuse for cheating"? Hmmmm... Just a thought - "cheating as civil disobedience": if the students don't signal there is a problem, the education system has no incentive to find and correct it. Not that I say 41% of the students are engaging in "acts of civil disobedience", but to me it is a symptom of a problem: does it worth dismissing it?
I love competing in the job market against people who can't write well.
Now... where's the grammar / spelling error in that sentence? You're going to get me for that slash, aren't you? Contractions in aren't? Sentence fragment? again?
None of it... I'd try to get you on the ground of Irrelevance.
I think that is unfair. I have trouble remembering everything in my discipline beyond real analysis and linear algebra, that is why I have a library of reference books in mathematics. I know where to look to find what I need to find when I need to find it and I have the capability of understanding it. That should be the only thing that matters for entry level positions (i.e. only college degree, minimal work experience).
It is unfair. And the ones that are cheating are the teachers/HR/whoever-is-meant-to-test-you: instead of working their ass to validate the students/candidates ability to solve problems, they are relying on whatever grid/checkbox-list the candidates can fit.
I'd argue that the educational system that's cheating everybody.
As long as the education doesn't put a focus on the ability to think and select/process knowledge but to memorize knowledge, this is bound to happen. And the losers are the students, as the parent post exemplifies.
The most enjoyable exam I stayed was one with all the books I needed available: I still worked like a dog for 4 hours to solve the single problem I was given. The examiner worked also about 1 hour to uncover the tiny mistake (an incorrect sign) I made about 2/3rd in finding the solution and still validate the method I approached as correct... fair is fair, I passed the exam, not with the maximum grade and I still remember it as the best exam I stayed.
one-fifth the cost, dealing with four times the population
Let me point out that, with the deprecation rate we are seeing now for computers, once they finish building it, they'll need to start the upgrade cycle. And keep cycling: over a certain size, maintenance becomes a nightmare.
How many people you need to lift, solely by their arms power, 1 cubic meter of lead?
$50 million from the government because there is no profit potential in private industry.
Wind is less than 1% as efficient as coal.
Add to this the NIMBY-s and here's how a great opportunity is lost.
Here's a name to further google for: Samso.
But despite the utilitarian nature of Samso's achievements, the real winners of the project are the big financial investors. One of them is Jörgen Tranberg, who owns a 250-acre dairy farm. With help from the bank, the 55-year-old farmer invested 2.5 million euros in wind turbines. He paid 1.2 million euros for the one on his farm he owns outright and he is half-owner of one of the offshore turbines, too. He claims that on a good day the windmills alone can earn him 3,000 euros, as told by the Independent.
My point: if the farmers(owners) would get the ownership of the turbines and start earning money (that means nobody would actually fuck their input stream), they'd sacrifice their NIMBY-sm in a blink.
It was just a movie. But those robots were all wired together, too. Some say that ignorance is the ultimate evil. These Internet robots may have just found god.
Slashdot Mirror
The premise that education and business have the same goals and should work by the same methods is absurd. Business is about being productive, education is about gaining skills and knowledge.
Me: WTF?!?
Seems to me you are asserting that business and education should have disjunct goals and methods.
Because none of us have ever had to write a convincing 20 page report on some topic that we thought was complete bullshit for our jobs. Dude, that was practically job training for large parts of corporate America. Think I'm joking? Ever had to write an evaluation of software for purchase, even though you know there is no money in the budget?
And what? Wasn't the lesson learnt properly?
When I'm asked to evaluate a software for purchase, my first step after reading a bit their site, I straightly call the producing/reseller company and tell them: "My specific is such and such. How does your product help me?"
Mod Parent +Insightful
Not saying that it is right (not saying it is wrong either), but provides a fresh and common-sense perspective from the position of an individual teacher (rather than dealing with society and statistics).
If I knew that the engineer who built a bridge I drive on cheated his way through college, I would feel that engineer should be held partially responsible for poor workmanship should that bridge fall apart, or not last as long as it should.
What if it doesn't?
What if, in spite of 2/3 of the students cheating, the WallStreet keeps ticking?
And, by getting away with it, I mean how do you overcome not having a fundamental understanding of content that might be a prerequisite to higher level classes? It would seem to be exponentially more difficult to cheat your way through classes since at some point in your last years you'll definitely have to be quizzed without a browser accessible.
The fact that you are paying for your so-called "education" keeps the farce still going. Education is no longer an art or a science, is an industry - the moment the profit takes a dip, the bar is lowered.
Well school is supposed to be about teachers measuring students ability to learn.
That's completely false, my friend. The school is suppose to be about teachers educating the students, with measuring the students progress - and not their ability to learn - only secondary to the education (i.e. a tool to use in teaching better). This mass-spread confusion between the purpose (education) and the mean (measuring) makes what we are seeing now as "education = graduation paper mills".
Well done, Skinner.
The problem(?) seems to be the oversight and need for standardization along with metrics. We're so caught up in making sure they can pass tests using rote memorization that we never focus on teaching them to make decisions.
The decision are taken by college-dropouts (see MS/Gates) or by cheaters. Everybody else don;t need to take decisions, just be productive and tame.
No, letting the joke aside, I do agree with you - just wanted to point a possible explanation to the state of facts (I'm not saying anything on how probable is the explanation).
The premise that education and business have the same goals and should work by the same methods is absurd. Business is about being productive, education is about gaining skills and knowledge.
You have already a absolute answer and no questions.Care to explain how come almost 2/3 of the students cheat? Is there no problem with the education/business system?
Oral explanation of results or answers on open-book exams worked fine.
Of course, you could argue those can be somewhat arbitrary.
Huh... even more. What, the current way of measuring is not arbitrary? Does the fact that the answers are pre-grilled is less arbitrary than a face-to-face discussion?
OK, how do you measure whether you've succeeded in teaching / the student has succeeded in learning those things in a way that is neither arbitrary, nor allows cheating?
Let me reply with another question: why measuring in a short time the outcomes of the education becomes more important than the education itself?
Perhaps that just means that the business world doesn't have any ethics or morals.
Perhaps the main reason the business world is geared towards results... you know? Like the annual stockholders meeting.
Granted, some more ethics wouldn't hurt... but I don;t think that being a/imoral is the main reason 61% of the students cheat - it's too high a number not to signal the potential of other problems with the education system.
This is where the ability to ask why is more important than to ask how and what... an attitude that the today's academics seems to have lost long ago.
Yes, you can minimize opportunities to cheat with cleverer tests and/or assignments,
How about problem solving? How about the quality of a face-to-face argumentation?
Takes more time to test your students? Sure it takes, everything of quality takes time, this is why you are paid for, cheater!
Of course not! I would never cybercheat on my cybertests. Those cyberessays are just too vital to my growth as a cyberstudent. Cybercheating would be a cyberdisgrace to my cyberhonor.
Not to mention that your cyberparents and cyber-GF would not be happy at all.
They're pioneers in the same way that Richard Nixon pioneered the process of using plumbers in electoral politics. Just because the course requirements need revision is no excuse for cheating.
"no excuse for cheating"? Hmmmm... Just a thought - "cheating as civil disobedience": if the students don't signal there is a problem, the education system has no incentive to find and correct it.
Not that I say 41% of the students are engaging in "acts of civil disobedience", but to me it is a symptom of a problem: does it worth dismissing it?
I love competing in the job market against people who can't write well.
Now... where's the grammar / spelling error in that sentence? You're going to get me for that slash, aren't you? Contractions in aren't? Sentence fragment? again?
None of it... I'd try to get you on the ground of Irrelevance.
I think that is unfair. I have trouble remembering everything in my discipline beyond real analysis and linear algebra, that is why I have a library of reference books in mathematics. I know where to look to find what I need to find when I need to find it and I have the capability of understanding it. That should be the only thing that matters for entry level positions (i.e. only college degree, minimal work experience).
It is unfair. And the ones that are cheating are the teachers/HR/whoever-is-meant-to-test-you: instead of working their ass to validate the students/candidates ability to solve problems, they are relying on whatever grid/checkbox-list the candidates can fit.
As long as the education doesn't put a focus on the ability to think and select/process knowledge but to memorize knowledge, this is bound to happen. And the losers are the students, as the parent post exemplifies.
The most enjoyable exam I stayed was one with all the books I needed available: I still worked like a dog for 4 hours to solve the single problem I was given. The examiner worked also about 1 hour to uncover the tiny mistake (an incorrect sign) I made about 2/3rd in finding the solution and still validate the method I approached as correct... fair is fair, I passed the exam, not with the maximum grade and I still remember it as the best exam I stayed.
And in two years it will be just as obsolete as square feet.
Does it mean "never"?
one-fifth the cost, dealing with four times the population
Let me point out that, with the deprecation rate we are seeing now for computers, once they finish building it, they'll need to start the upgrade cycle. And keep cycling: over a certain size, maintenance becomes a nightmare.
How many people you need to lift, solely by their arms power, 1 cubic meter of lead?
Who cares about the absolute figure, anyway, it's the bang for the buck that's important. Soviet space program was cheaper than US one as well.
That's right. Not the cost is important, but the profit.
$50 million from the government because there is no profit potential in private industry.
Wind is less than 1% as efficient as coal.
Add to this the NIMBY-s and here's how a great opportunity is lost. Here's a name to further google for: Samso.
But despite the utilitarian nature of Samso's achievements, the real winners of the project are the big financial investors. One of them is Jörgen Tranberg, who owns a 250-acre dairy farm. With help from the bank, the 55-year-old farmer invested 2.5 million euros in wind turbines. He paid 1.2 million euros for the one on his farm he owns outright and he is half-owner of one of the offshore turbines, too. He claims that on a good day the windmills alone can earn him 3,000 euros, as told by the Independent.
My point: if the farmers(owners) would get the ownership of the turbines and start earning money (that means nobody would actually fuck their input stream), they'd sacrifice their NIMBY-sm in a blink.
What about local opposition? The Martha's Vineyard wind farm faced a regular nor'easter of NIMBYism.
Simple to overcome... on top of off-shoring, outsource and move them in Asia... cheaper workforce (oh, wait...)
I always love when a browser company gives me more versions (and their individual idiosyncrasies) to test and support.
You'll have to understand... comes "cheaper by the dozen" for them.
It was just a movie. But those robots were all wired together, too. Some say that ignorance is the ultimate evil. These Internet robots may have just found god.
iGod? Did they recognize SJ so quick?
... what's behind the haste of US for an Internet Kill Switch... the European robots are learning and using Internet for it.