I don't think you can strictly call it government subsidies.
One way to look at it would be to get rid of government road blocks...permits, studies, applications, etc. All the crap you have to go through to build a large manufacturing plant.
You could also make an argument that government policy has raised the cost of U.S. labor. This would actually be a negative subsidy.
So if you offset the burdens imposed by the government, is that a subsidy?
But how is the low wages due to lack of labor laws and such differ from the lower cost due to no capital costs to deal with. Both are the result of government policy.
Plus, it could be argued that this kind of action is strategic in nature, to guarantee the ability to continue to manufacture products essential to the economy. Throw in self defense if you want.
But I'd much rather have this policy discussion rather than frittering away billion and billions (apologies to Carl Sagan) on financial companies.
If you absolutely HAD to spend billions in stimulus money, this situation would be perfect. Create a consortium with the major manufacturers and have the feds build a memory/hard drive/LCD plant(s) here in the states, absorbing all the capital costs (a pittance, compared to the over all stimulus bill).
The consortium would run the plant(s) and probably be competitive with overseas plants because they won't have the burden of the initial capital costs.
Of course, details, details, details but this approach would make sense in many industries.
Because it was a file with an innocuous name, sitting in a public folder, together with other public files
So do you make it a habit to just go rummaging around in people's garbage? I imagine if someone was cleaning out their garage and had stuff all over their driveway and then went inside for a moment, you'd feel free to take whatever since it's in a public place.
Don't take shit that doesn't belong to you. That's what the take away from all of this is.
You are too dense to get the basic point of this entire Slashdot posting.
They copied what any reasonable person would know is confidential information. They knew it was confidential when they took and that's why they tried blackmail.
All your stupid analogies of hiking through forests and opens doors are irrelevant. They STOLE the information. If you can't recognize that then you are lost.
They may have been stupid for putting it where it could be found but that is completely irrelevant.
God help anyone who has the misfortune of being associated with you because you would probably steal them blind if they happen to write down a password or leave a wallet on their desk.
I'd better not leave my door unlocked because you may just wander in and take whatever shit you like. Maybe look at my desk and copy my bank account numbers, who knows. Because heaven forbid people should use some FUCKING COMMON SENSE.
The reasoning is simple and not related to any of these open door analogies. If it's not yours, don't take it. That's the reasoning a court will use.
You: "Well, your honor, the money was right there in the open" Judge: "Was it yours?" You: "Well, no..." Judge "Guilty!"
Credit card numbers, MP3s, emails, whatever. They aren't yours so don't take them.
If you click on a link with CC numbers, no big deal UNLESS you start copying them down or save the page, etc. then you are taking them.
As far as the file of usernames, why did you send it to yourself? Why didn't you bring it to their attention right away?
I have no way of knowing whether I'm authorised or not to access that data until either I'm denied access, or I receive the data and judge for myself.
This really takes the cake. Use some common sense! If it's something of value and clearly was not intended to be public, then don't copy/save it. Is the concept really all that difficult to understand?
If you walked by a car, saw there was a wad of twenties on the front seat AND that the window was open...are you authorized to take it?
No. Not under any circumstance.
If you happen across a website that has some link to people's credit cards and the CCW codes and other personal information, are you authorized to take them, let alone use them?
No. Not under any circumstance.
A reasonable person would either leave it alone or do what they could to notify the site's owner, or, "dude, you left a wad of twenties in plain view"
You don't need some god damned fucking law to behave in an honorable and respectable manner....well, maybe you do.
It used to be that you could leave you house or car unlocked because people knew that others wouldn't fuck with it.
Now, you have to have a dead bolt and an alarm system.
The bottom line is that these scum got their hands on stuff that doesn't belong to them. They knew it wasn't theirs and they knew that any reasonable person would know it was not intended to be available. Talking about the fact they left the door open is nothing more than a distraction and an attempt to take away culpability from these fucking thieves.
If, if, if....no matter what "if" you choose. You access a system you are not authorized to access,you have violated federal law. Taking information from that system is just doubling down.
The only analogy that applies is the one the Federal one. You know, the one that says if you access unauthorized information, you have committed a computer crime.
Federal Law says that if you access their servers and you were not authorized to do so, then you have committed a computer crime, no matter what analogy you come up with.
Slashdot Mirror
Lost in the demagogic hyper-bloviating is the fact that no one is really against legal immigration.
I pay AT&T $25 a month for DSL at 760Kb.
Compared to other countries, I understand that is pathetic.
I could pay $50 to Time Warner for 5Mb. But I can wait for my porn.
I don't think you can strictly call it government subsidies.
One way to look at it would be to get rid of government road blocks...permits, studies, applications, etc. All the crap you have to go through to build a large manufacturing plant.
You could also make an argument that government policy has raised the cost of U.S. labor. This would actually be a negative subsidy.
So if you offset the burdens imposed by the government, is that a subsidy?
As I said...Details.
But how is the low wages due to lack of labor laws and such differ from the lower cost due to no capital costs to deal with. Both are the result of government policy.
Plus, it could be argued that this kind of action is strategic in nature, to guarantee the ability to continue to manufacture products essential to the economy. Throw in self defense if you want.
But I'd much rather have this policy discussion rather than frittering away billion and billions (apologies to Carl Sagan) on financial companies.
I wouldn't get too excited.
Network technology has been steadily advancing, yet in the U.S. Internet access speeds and costs have remained stagnant.
If you absolutely HAD to spend billions in stimulus money, this situation would be perfect. Create a consortium with the major manufacturers and have the feds build a memory/hard drive/LCD plant(s) here in the states, absorbing all the capital costs (a pittance, compared to the over all stimulus bill).
The consortium would run the plant(s) and probably be competitive with overseas plants because they won't have the burden of the initial capital costs.
Of course, details, details, details but this approach would make sense in many industries.
If I could only take your bullshit,. compost it and sell it.
Because it was a file with an innocuous name, sitting in a public folder, together with other public files
So do you make it a habit to just go rummaging around in people's garbage? I imagine if someone was cleaning out their garage and had stuff all over their driveway and then went inside for a moment, you'd feel free to take whatever since it's in a public place.
Don't take shit that doesn't belong to you. That's what the take away from all of this is.
You are too dense to get the basic point of this entire Slashdot posting.
They copied what any reasonable person would know is confidential information. They knew it was confidential when they took and that's why they tried blackmail.
All your stupid analogies of hiking through forests and opens doors are irrelevant. They STOLE the information. If you can't recognize that then you are lost.
They may have been stupid for putting it where it could be found but that is completely irrelevant.
God help anyone who has the misfortune of being associated with you because you would probably steal them blind if they happen to write down a password or leave a wallet on their desk.
I'd better not leave my door unlocked because you may just wander in and take whatever shit you like. Maybe look at my desk and copy my bank account numbers, who knows. Because heaven forbid people should use some FUCKING COMMON SENSE.
The reasoning is simple and not related to any of these open door analogies. If it's not yours, don't take it. That's the reasoning a court will use.
You: "Well, your honor, the money was right there in the open"
Judge: "Was it yours?"
You: "Well, no..."
Judge "Guilty!"
Credit card numbers, MP3s, emails, whatever. They aren't yours so don't take them.
If you click on a link with CC numbers, no big deal UNLESS you start copying them down or save the page, etc. then you are taking them.
As far as the file of usernames, why did you send it to yourself? Why didn't you bring it to their attention right away?
I have no way of knowing whether I'm authorised or not to access that data until either I'm denied access, or I receive the data and judge for myself.
This really takes the cake. Use some common sense! If it's something of value and clearly was not intended to be public, then don't copy/save it. Is the concept really all that difficult to understand?
The difference is that you can't take the picture of the wad of twenties to Best Buy and get a big screen TV.
If you walked by a car, saw there was a wad of twenties on the front seat AND that the window was open...are you authorized to take it?
No. Not under any circumstance.
If you happen across a website that has some link to people's credit cards and the CCW codes and other personal information, are you authorized to take them, let alone use them?
No. Not under any circumstance.
A reasonable person would either leave it alone or do what they could to notify the site's owner, or, "dude, you left a wad of twenties in plain view"
You don't need some god damned fucking law to behave in an honorable and respectable manner....well, maybe you do.
It used to be that you could leave you house or car unlocked because people knew that others wouldn't fuck with it.
Now, you have to have a dead bolt and an alarm system.
The bottom line is that these scum got their hands on stuff that doesn't belong to them. They knew it wasn't theirs and they knew that any reasonable person would know it was not intended to be available. Talking about the fact they left the door open is nothing more than a distraction and an attempt to take away culpability from these fucking thieves.
As I said, go ahead and do it and try your arguments out.
I'll wait to hear back.
Go ahead...do it. Then call the FBI, tell them what you did and make your case that you shouldn't be charged.
Let us know how it goes
Go ahead and try that with a judge and jury. I don't really care.
If, if, if....no matter what "if" you choose. You access a system you are not authorized to access,you have violated federal law. Taking information from that system is just doubling down.
If you take information you are not authorized to take from a computer system, you have violated federal law. Period, over and out.
The only analogy that applies is the one the Federal one. You know, the one that says if you access unauthorized information, you have committed a computer crime.
Irrelevant.
Federal Law says that if you access their servers and you were not authorized to do so, then you have committed a computer crime, no matter what analogy you come up with.
It will be fun to see, one day, when someone sets up the equivalent of a shotgun behind the door.
LOL...well, I guess Greedo would work too!
Spammers and Hackers should sleep with the asteroids.
I always thought the cousin Greedo approach would be appropriate.
Spammers/hackers should sleep with the fishes.
You are the one who made the comparison.
Which is it? Climate Models predicts the future like a GPS predicts your arrival time or they are nothing alike?
Your analogy is a complete fail.