That's a free $5 cupon. It's better than paying full price.
I didnt' say it was a great solution, but at least he's not paying that evil full price, is he? Don't make it sound like you didn't get anything out of the deal was my point.
The very design of the web lends itself to such flexibility and open-ness with regards to URLs. As such, the technology that drives the web also allows for these sort of situations to be accounted for. In fact, under current law (erm, the DMCA i believe, at least in part:-\ ) it is illegal to do anything on your list if and only if the administrator of the server took actions to prevent you from doing it.
If you have requested, by following a link, the resource/some/path/document, and get a 404 Page not Found error, is it legal for you to try accessing/some/path/ by changing the URL in your browser's URL field?
By all means it should be. The URL is just a location. Any use of the URL for "security" purposes isn't really much of a solution, as there are better/less revealing methods for implemeting security checks, such as HTTP Auth. and Cookies. If you wish for a directory to not be listed, add an index.html to it with a "denied listing" message, or better yes, switch auto-indexing off on your server, which will result in a 404 error every time if this is attempted.
Is it legal to type some domain name into your browser, even if it is not published anywhere? (E.g. you're looking for Foo Corporation's web site and try www.foo.com.)
Once again, it very well should be, unless that domain is restricted somehow. Any website that leaves access open and free to all is just that: open and free to all. It's like a big, open field anyone can walk into. If you want your site to be restricted, web browsers and servers provide the capability to "put a fence aroudn that field", i.e. authentication methods and sessions, again through HTTP Auth and Cookies.
If you're currently reading/2001/some-report, and you think that the year 2002 record would be more interesting, would you not try to type/2002/some-report into your browser?
If the site owner woudl not liek to allow this (i.e. you must pay for each report, or maybe you must view them in some order so as not to get the wrong idea about something, who knows) once again sessions and auth methods are availible, and also check the HTTP_REFERER, make sure the page in question is being accessed only from an authorized source. This also prevents deep linking, and through the use of logging can even report "offenders" to the webmaster. Of course, if they can't access your site, there is no need to take legal action against them, a nice friendly e-mail explaining not to deep link will sufice for most.
If you're reading a structured document, e.g. an online book or a howto article, and you're currently reading/3-1, and you realize you'd like to skip chapter three but the "Next" link points to/3-2, is it legal for you to type/4 into your browser?
As long as there is no reason for the site to be restricting you from chapter 4, again the responsibility of the webmaster. If you want to keep people out of a room, you should lock it. It doesn't matter if it's illegal for people to go there, at the very least someone will wander in on accident. We dont' depend on laws to tell people not to rob our houses, we lock the doors so people can't get in.
If you follow a link and get a 404, and the URL looks like the webmaster simply made a typo, is trying to correct the URL illegal without permission?
I would certianly hope not...
If any of the above is illegal, but someone did it anyway and then published the URL on his web site, without telling how he found it, is it illegal to click? To copy and paste?
It's illegal for him to tell you, and if the webmaster took any precautions to keep the URL save other than "obscurity" then your actions are illegal too. However, if the URL is simply open for the taking, there is nothing that can be done about your clicking or copy + pasting. This is where the web differs from real life. If someone trold you "Hey, go through this hidden door and take what you want!" it's illegal. By the very nature of the web, any door left open is an invitation to the public. Webmasters need to be less lazy and realize this is the way it is, and they need to take protective measures for sensitive data.
Hope that all made sense, I am late for class so no time for revision! *runs*
I doubt they where functional. Who wants to go buy a working computer for any price just to throw it in a parking lot?
Your comment does nothing but justify these guys actions. The PC zelot crowd would have no problem playing "iMac Toss" (at least ours comes with handles so you have the option). So who cares if the Mac zelots do the same thing?
Keep in mind these guys are not the norm, they are the exception. I'm a Mac "freak" myself, bigtime, but I don't go looking for Ellen look-alikes (uhh BTW Ellen Fiess is 14) or throwing PCs (although I did help some drunken friends film a monitor dropping off a 5th story roof in downtown southie Boston at 3AM, but that's another story...), or making "computer pr0n" by stacking laptops on one another and pluging them together with FireWire cables (although, I do alot of DV editing:-D ). Frankly it's because I don't care about that crap, I dont' have the free time, and, most importantly, I'm not European;-)
Seriously though, some Mac zelots are weird. I support Apple as a strong company with good goals, but I dont' have a chunk of carpet in a plastic bag labeled "MacWorld Expo 2001 NYC, stage left (STEVE WAS HERE!!!!!!!)", if you catch my drift...
For once I'll stand up and be a proud American - God knows I dont' approve of everything my country does, espeically lately. However, I'd like to say
HELL YES.
I will be dammed if i give it back. I pay $50 a month for "high speed" Internet access, which is now going to become SLOWER and MORE EXPENSIVE?
No. I think not. Take the fortume you're making off me and buy faster/more efficient equipment. If your cable modem customer base grew too fast because you didn't see the obvious surge comming/your monopoly fored too many customers to you, DO NOT take it out on the customers. UPGRADE. Make it better. If you make it better, more people will come. If more people come, you make more money and yes, you'll have to upgrade again someday. Ohh the shock, the $3 million you just spent has become obsolete in just 5 short years? Does that hurt the poor baby capitalist's bottom line? OoooOOoOoooo perhaps then you're in the wrong game, Uncle Piggybanks! </RANT>
Whew, sorry, that kinda works me up a bit. It's really retarded. Anyone from Time Warner wanna chime in and tell us what a friggin mess their system is, and prove my point about the current ratio shift in price vs. quality?
One of the reasons I enjoy my broadband is just that: the bandwidth is "broad". I can listen to the 128kbps stream from Digitaly Imported, or Bassdrive Radio. I know most of you think techno/dace music is crap, well try listening to precise-frequency synths at 20kbps. Ok, now it's WAY crappier.
I just had this discussion with a friend today... what will be the point of even HAVING boradband if you get 56k speeds? Isn't the whole reason everyone switched to broadband to enjoy the SPEED?
If cable companies can't handle the traffic load, perhaps it's time for some infastructure upgrades? We're going to use more and more bandwidth, and if you cap me slow and then charge me extra, I'll go back to my old 56k. At least that allows me unlimited usage at the same effective speed:-P
Listen, I know as of late/. has become a very politcal-oriented site, tech news abut new laws, etc.
This type of story has it's roots here long before the DMCA was a twinkle in Congress' eye. THis is an important story, about an important flaw in VERY important security software. If this type of story isn't fit for Slashdot, then Slashdot is no longer a tech. news site.
"News for Nerds, Stuff That Matters." This fscking matter. A lot. As user # 318124, though, maybe you havent' been around long enough to realize that.
Saftey concerns aside, I thought that a plane cabin was the one place I would never have to deal with people who won't quit talking on the phone.
Cel phones wouldn't be half as annyoing if they had:
Better microphones and earpeices. I can't never hear anything on my phone, and people I talk to have trouble hearing me. This forces me to say "What?" a lot and also to repeat myself (while speaking louder) when others can't hear me. Annoying for me as well as others.
Better reception. Sprint is especially guilty, there are holes and blind spots all over their coverage areas. Then again, if I have to repeat myself or call back, I use more minutes, and they can charge me when I go over.
Not to say some people aren't fscking stupid when it comes to being on the phone, but some are equally obnoxious when it comes to telling people to "hang up", and the limits of the technology help to make phone conversations annoying for everyone. I sure hope phone companies are working to resolve these problems.
"Buy a faster disk" isn't really a good solution compared to "make the finder faster".
I should have been more clear on this: the disks that come pre-installed in a Mac aren't the greatest. They're decent, but sometimes seek time is a big factor in slow Finder access. Also, Finder is in a transition point at this time, too. Apple had to completely re-write it and it's a new team on the project, IIRC, and there are still kinks to be worked out. It's also not as full featuered as in MacOS 9. I mean, we just got Spring-Loaded folders back. What the hell is that? I wouldn't have left that out for anything!
What happens if I have two files called "Business Plan" and "Business Diary" (let's pretend). Can I type "bu - tab - d - enter"? Or do I have to type "Business D - enter"? This isn't trying to trip you up or anything, I'm just curious.
Yes, that's sort of the limiting factor in the Finder as opposed to the command line... In that case I'd just arrow-key down one file.
Apple has a cleaner solution in iTunes (and I think the 10.2 Finder has it built into the toolbar, although you might need to use "Customize Toolbar..." and add it, I haven't used 10.2 yet:-\ ) where there is a search box at the top, and as you type it filters out possible matches in real time. Something like with automatic keyboard focus inthe active window would be nice, as would Tab completion for it. Maybe I'll e-mail Apple...
I was trying to counterbalance toupsie who seemed to think that the Finder was perfection (it isn't) and that Explorer/the CLI/Nautilus/whatever is automatically awful, because it isn't Apple (they aren't)
Yes, quite true.
Well, thanks for the informative reply. I wish all replies to my posts were like that......
Quite a pleasure, thank you for not thinking I was making an attemt at a flame or telling you off, half the time around here I get slammed for offering a lil' knowledge...
The NeXT style columns view (the default) is awful. I found I couldn't get it to display as much info as Explorer could in the same space, I found that copying between two locations meant I had to open 2 finder windows or engage the rather feeble tree widget. It wastes space, the big icon/preview is very pretty, but 90% of the time useless as I already know what the filetype is, it just takes up a big fat wad of space that could have been used for something else.
Use the list view, and navagate with the arrow keys (or by typing the name of a file) and pressing Apple-O. It's like a graphical command-line that way.
It's slow. No really, even on 10.2, I could watch as it rerendered the Finder on a complex directory structure. Quartz Extreme me all you like, I didn't try it with that, as the drivers for the card in the machine I was using didn't support it (the owner had upgraded it himself). Rox is fast. The Finder is slow.
The Finder doesn't take up memory with caching all the directory structures, just the most recent. So the rendering is slow due to the Finder reading the icons + positions + the directory listing and all the other info from the disk. Buy a faster disk, or for a nice test, open a folder, watch it render slow, close it, and immediately open it back up. Ahh. Besides, by the time you find what you want, it's usually done drawing anyway. This is nitpicking.
Primitive typing: in Rox if I view the properties of a file, the "file" program will scan it and try to figure out what exactly it is. It'll say for instance "Screenshot.png: PNG image data, 1024 x 768, 8-bit/color RGB, non-interlaced" or "ASCII Text, long lines". The Finder just says "Document" for any type that isn't explicitly registered with it, at least rox tries to guess based on some reasonably smart heuristics
Ahh, now we're getting somewhere. This has been a problem since OS X, because type and creator codes are no longer required, and thus files dont' always have them. The most common types such as.png,.jpg, etc. are supposed to be noticed by the finder and passed to QuickTime for this same sort of detection, all behind the scenes. It happens in MacOS 9, I'm not sure why this feature is missing in OS X. As for other types, this was why file/creator tags where good: The Finder has a database of all files of type "APPL" which are the Mac equivelant of a.exe file. All APPLs which dealt with files where supposed to have a "BNDL" type resource (we love four-char codes on the Mac;-) ) and in this was a listing of the (again, four-char code) program creator type and the various files it was designed to handle. So when encountered with a new file, the Finder simply checked it's link table to all the Apps and if there was no creator type, found the first applicable matching file type and set the new file's tags appropriately. Mac OS X needs a file extension registry as well as the type/creator registry (it's not like the Windows registry, mind you. File matching only.), but it seems to lack one.
Apparently no Rox/Nautilus type-ahead tab complete. This isn't a "hard" feature, once you know it's there anybody can use it, I've seen die hard Windowsers pick it up in less than 10 seconds. If the Finder has it, it didn't make it particularly obvious. Rox has a great implementation, just hit / and use it like you would the CLI, you can see it scan through the directories as you type, and get visual feedback as it matches. Nautilus2 has something similar though not as slick if you press Ctrl-L
A simple RTFM solves this. Use the technique I described above, type the name until the highlight matches, and Apple-O, or any other keyboard shortcut you'd like, depending of course, on what you want to do with the file. You can actually move quite fast once you get the hang of it, it comes as natural as typing and using the shift key.
No address bar? I feel sure it can mount FTP drives etc as it can do the iDisk, but there's no obvious place to type in any URLs for that.
Ahh, yes this feature coudl stand out a little more but the Finder is no Web Browser and therefore we keep this tucked away under the Go menu. Choose "Connect To Server..." or, for speed-shortcutting, use Apple-K (Konnect, C interferes with Copy). You can also add a button to the toolbar and click it if you so desire, go to View->Customize Toolbar... and drag and drop the buttons from the window to the toolbar to arrange.
You clearly like the Finder toupsie, but then you like anything that is Apple, and hate anything that isn't, this is a theme that comes across in most of your posts. File management is very much a personal thing - don't assume your view is the "right" view. Comments like "I can't explain, you must just use it" don't help your arguments by the way.
You clearly haven't used the Finder much, IamTheRealMike, but then you also seem to not care because it is Apple. This is a theme that came across in your post. Dont' assume you need to tell someone off because they defended their view - if I was to bad mouth the Linux kernel I'd be killed on this website, by all the slashdotters doing the same. Give it another try, look around carefully, Apple does things differently for a reason. You won't be a power user in a day. That's why Apple's interface is great, it does things logically but not the way other interfaces too. There is too much similarity with other file borwsers that limits them in some respects.
Of course, choice is yours, and I'm not suggesting you "switch", I'll leave Apple's ad dept up to that. It's like switchng from an automatic to a stick. Sure it's different, sometimes harder, but some people liek to drive stick alot more. (Ohh the trolls will have a field day with that!)
Toupsie: While I agree with you on the Finder, that was rather vague. Perhaps next time point out some of the things you feel make the Finder strong?
Yes, rendezvous is a cleaned up implementation because they saw it already done before.
Exactly, Apple isn't exactly trying to innovate (that's really is such a marketing word anyways), they're just trying to provide a nice, clean, workable solution that will be friendly to everyone.
Whether they have succeded or not remains to be seen, as developers adopt this new "technology". I haven't really been keeping my programming skills up to date, leaning Cocoa/Objective C, the ins-and outs of OS X, etc. so I am not quite qualified to state the usefulness of Rendezvous just yet... I hope it's good, because it sounds quite nifty.
Without a server, clients need to simply discover each other. Rendezvous will allow then to do this, clean and without user intervention (i.e. no typing in someone's computer name or IP). The protocol of transer will be TCP/IP, however I believe you're refering to the structure of the datagram, i.e. what goes into each packet that is sent, which is entirely up to the designers.
I don't think Rendezvous is overrated at all. I think it's the way things should have been done 10 years ago, and it's almost sad that it wasn't.
Build on the success of Evolution. Does that meean this software will come into common use and become the de-facto standard everywhere except America's Bible-belt?
Let's repeat this at +2 for all those that browse with ACs off, it makes a good point:
"No, you have to be epileptic first. The TV or any strobing light can cause a reaction. Car headlights through the cracks in a picket fence, for example, or a police car."
Or even sunlight through the leaves of a tree.
Who was that masked man who cleared up my argument for me?
Ohh, just put them in front of a modern TV, this things that can induce epilepsy?
No, you have to be epileptic first. The TV or any strobing light can cause a reaction. Car headlights through the cracks in a picket fence, for example, or a police car.
Maybe monotone tones (Anybody clubbing??) can induce hardwiring in the brain of young children or even babys or unborn ones?
My high school math teacher was much more monotone than any of the music I listen to, and I'm a techno DJ. Exposure to THAT guy at such a young age def. messed with my head. That and he tried to get me over his house after school one da...uhh maybe I shouldn't be telling you this.
At my university there is a project about allergies. Its seem that there is at least corollar data that combines allergies to too much hygiene.
It would make sense that people who are "not used to it" are more susceptible, but I work in a dusty enviroment, and since my house has been under contruction I live in a dusty enviroment, and I haven't adjuested to it yet... YMMV.
Slightly OT: Imagine what Microsoft will do when people figure out how to mod chip Palladium-"Enchanced" motherboards? "Chage the law or else we'll stop selling Windows." YEA, THAT will go over well.
Slashdot Mirror
That's a free $5 cupon. It's better than paying full price.
I didnt' say it was a great solution, but at least he's not paying that evil full price, is he? Don't make it sound like you didn't get anything out of the deal was my point.
......eeexxcepptt it's quite a bit worse to murder someone?
You got free shit, dont' complain.
Although now that I think about it, why wasn't Nintendo ordered to price their games reasonably as well?
- If you have requested, by following a link, the resource
/some/path/document, and get a 404 Page not Found error, is it legal for you to try accessing /some/path/ by changing the URL in your browser's URL field?
By all means it should be. The URL is just a location. Any use of the URL for "security" purposes isn't really much of a solution, as there are better/less revealing methods for implemeting security checks, such as HTTP Auth. and Cookies. If you wish for a directory to not be listed, add an index.html to it with a "denied listing" message, or better yes, switch auto-indexing off on your server, which will result in a 404 error every time if this is attempted.- Is it legal to type some domain name into your browser, even if it is not published anywhere? (E.g. you're looking for Foo Corporation's web site and try www.foo.com.)
Once again, it very well should be, unless that domain is restricted somehow. Any website that leaves access open and free to all is just that: open and free to all. It's like a big, open field anyone can walk into. If you want your site to be restricted, web browsers and servers provide the capability to "put a fence aroudn that field", i.e. authentication methods and sessions, again through HTTP Auth and Cookies.- If you're currently reading
/2001/some-report, and you think that the year 2002 record would be more interesting, would you not try to type /2002/some-report into your browser?
If the site owner woudl not liek to allow this (i.e. you must pay for each report, or maybe you must view them in some order so as not to get the wrong idea about something, who knows) once again sessions and auth methods are availible, and also check the HTTP_REFERER, make sure the page in question is being accessed only from an authorized source. This also prevents deep linking, and through the use of logging can even report "offenders" to the webmaster. Of course, if they can't access your site, there is no need to take legal action against them, a nice friendly e-mail explaining not to deep link will sufice for most.- If you're reading a structured document, e.g. an online book or a howto article, and you're currently reading
/3-1, and you realize you'd like to skip chapter three but the "Next" link points to /3-2, is it legal for you to type /4 into your browser?
As long as there is no reason for the site to be restricting you from chapter 4, again the responsibility of the webmaster. If you want to keep people out of a room, you should lock it. It doesn't matter if it's illegal for people to go there, at the very least someone will wander in on accident. We dont' depend on laws to tell people not to rob our houses, we lock the doors so people can't get in.- If you follow a link and get a 404, and the URL looks like the webmaster simply made a typo, is trying to correct the URL illegal without permission?
I would certianly hope not...- If any of the above is illegal, but someone did it anyway and then published the URL on his web site, without telling how he found it, is it illegal to click? To copy and paste?
It's illegal for him to tell you, and if the webmaster took any precautions to keep the URL save other than "obscurity" then your actions are illegal too. However, if the URL is simply open for the taking, there is nothing that can be done about your clicking or copy + pasting. This is where the web differs from real life. If someone trold you "Hey, go through this hidden door and take what you want!" it's illegal. By the very nature of the web, any door left open is an invitation to the public. Webmasters need to be less lazy and realize this is the way it is, and they need to take protective measures for sensitive data.Hope that all made sense, I am late for class so no time for revision! *runs*
.... wasn't your point supposed to be "I guess people in Amsterdam Think Different"?
...Like dumping a giant Internet Explorer "E" on Netscape's lawn?
Nah, they never do goofy shit either...
"Come on, join the Mac revolution! You too can perform stupid stunts like tossing old Windows-based PCs and look at porn!"
Read between the lines. This is clearly a "Look how much Macs and the Mac crowd suck!" type of article^H^H^H^H^H^H^Htroll.
This is not the Mac user norm, trust me.
Of course, if I had been smoking opium for 12 hours and had a French Vanilla & Meth at breakfast, I'd probably think CowboyNeal was Ellen Fiess...
- I doubt they where functional. Who wants to go buy a working computer for any price just to throw it in a parking lot?
- Your comment does nothing but justify these guys actions. The PC zelot crowd would have no problem playing "iMac Toss" (at least ours comes with handles so you have the option). So who cares if the Mac zelots do the same thing?
Keep in mind these guys are not the norm, they are the exception. I'm a Mac "freak" myself, bigtime, but I don't go looking for Ellen look-alikes (uhh BTW Ellen Fiess is 14) or throwing PCs (although I did help some drunken friends film a monitor dropping off a 5th story roof in downtown southie Boston at 3AM, but that's another story...), or making "computer pr0n" by stacking laptops on one another and pluging them together with FireWire cables (although, I do alot of DV editingSeriously though, some Mac zelots are weird. I support Apple as a strong company with good goals, but I dont' have a chunk of carpet in a plastic bag labeled "MacWorld Expo 2001 NYC, stage left (STEVE WAS HERE!!!!!!!)", if you catch my drift...
...the Mac guys KNOW there are lots of drugs in Amsterdam
For once I'll stand up and be a proud American - God knows I dont' approve of everything my country does, espeically lately. However, I'd like to say
HELL YES.
I will be dammed if i give it back. I pay $50 a month for "high speed" Internet access, which is now going to become SLOWER and MORE EXPENSIVE?
No. I think not. Take the fortume you're making off me and buy faster/more efficient equipment. If your cable modem customer base grew too fast because you didn't see the obvious surge comming/your monopoly fored too many customers to you, DO NOT take it out on the customers. UPGRADE. Make it better. If you make it better, more people will come. If more people come, you make more money and yes, you'll have to upgrade again someday. Ohh the shock, the $3 million you just spent has become obsolete in just 5 short years? Does that hurt the poor baby capitalist's bottom line? OoooOOoOoooo perhaps then you're in the wrong game, Uncle Piggybanks!
</RANT>
Whew, sorry, that kinda works me up a bit. It's really retarded. Anyone from Time Warner wanna chime in and tell us what a friggin mess their system is, and prove my point about the current ratio shift in price vs. quality?
One of the reasons I enjoy my broadband is just that: the bandwidth is "broad". I can listen to the 128kbps stream from Digitaly Imported, or Bassdrive Radio. I know most of you think techno/dace music is crap, well try listening to precise-frequency synths at 20kbps. Ok, now it's WAY crappier.
:-P
I just had this discussion with a friend today... what will be the point of even HAVING boradband if you get 56k speeds? Isn't the whole reason everyone switched to broadband to enjoy the SPEED?
If cable companies can't handle the traffic load, perhaps it's time for some infastructure upgrades? We're going to use more and more bandwidth, and if you cap me slow and then charge me extra, I'll go back to my old 56k. At least that allows me unlimited usage at the same effective speed
Listen, I know as of late /. has become a very politcal-oriented site, tech news abut new laws, etc.
This type of story has it's roots here long before the DMCA was a twinkle in Congress' eye. THis is an important story, about an important flaw in VERY important security software. If this type of story isn't fit for Slashdot, then Slashdot is no longer a tech. news site.
"News for Nerds, Stuff That Matters."
This fscking matter. A lot. As user # 318124, though, maybe you havent' been around long enough to realize that.
-1 Redundant. I have the karma to burn.
Cel phones wouldn't be half as annyoing if they had:
- Better microphones and earpeices. I can't never hear anything on my phone, and people I talk to have trouble hearing me. This forces me to say "What?" a lot and also to repeat myself (while speaking louder) when others can't hear me. Annoying for me as well as others.
- Better reception. Sprint is especially guilty, there are holes and blind spots all over their coverage areas. Then again, if I have to repeat myself or call back, I use more minutes, and they can charge me when I go over.
Not to say some people aren't fscking stupid when it comes to being on the phone, but some are equally obnoxious when it comes to telling people to "hang up", and the limits of the technology help to make phone conversations annoying for everyone. I sure hope phone companies are working to resolve these problems."Can you hear me now?"
:-\
No?
Good.
Oh wait...fsck!
"Buy a faster disk" isn't really a good solution compared to "make the finder faster".
:-\ ) where there is a search box at the top, and as you type it filters out possible matches in real time. Something like with automatic keyboard focus inthe active window would be nice, as would Tab completion for it. Maybe I'll e-mail Apple...
I should have been more clear on this: the disks that come pre-installed in a Mac aren't the greatest. They're decent, but sometimes seek time is a big factor in slow Finder access. Also, Finder is in a transition point at this time, too. Apple had to completely re-write it and it's a new team on the project, IIRC, and there are still kinks to be worked out. It's also not as full featuered as in MacOS 9. I mean, we just got Spring-Loaded folders back. What the hell is that? I wouldn't have left that out for anything!
What happens if I have two files called "Business Plan" and "Business Diary" (let's pretend). Can I type "bu - tab - d - enter"? Or do I have to type "Business D - enter"? This isn't trying to trip you up or anything, I'm just curious.
Yes, that's sort of the limiting factor in the Finder as opposed to the command line... In that case I'd just arrow-key down one file.
Apple has a cleaner solution in iTunes (and I think the 10.2 Finder has it built into the toolbar, although you might need to use "Customize Toolbar..." and add it, I haven't used 10.2 yet
I was trying to counterbalance toupsie who seemed to think that the Finder was perfection (it isn't) and that Explorer/the CLI/Nautilus/whatever is automatically awful, because it isn't Apple (they aren't)
Yes, quite true.
Well, thanks for the informative reply. I wish all replies to my posts were like that......
Quite a pleasure, thank you for not thinking I was making an attemt at a flame or telling you off, half the time around here I get slammed for offering a lil' knowledge...
The NeXT style columns view (the default) is awful. I found I couldn't get it to display as much info as Explorer could in the same space, I found that copying between two locations meant I had to open 2 finder windows or engage the rather feeble tree widget. It wastes space, the big icon/preview is very pretty, but 90% of the time useless as I already know what the filetype is, it just takes up a big fat wad of space that could have been used for something else.
.png, .jpg, etc. are supposed to be noticed by the finder and passed to QuickTime for this same sort of detection, all behind the scenes. It happens in MacOS 9, I'm not sure why this feature is missing in OS X. As for other types, this was why file/creator tags where good: The Finder has a database of all files of type "APPL" which are the Mac equivelant of a .exe file. All APPLs which dealt with files where supposed to have a "BNDL" type resource (we love four-char codes on the Mac ;-) ) and in this was a listing of the (again, four-char code) program creator type and the various files it was designed to handle. So when encountered with a new file, the Finder simply checked it's link table to all the Apps and if there was no creator type, found the first applicable matching file type and set the new file's tags appropriately. Mac OS X needs a file extension registry as well as the type/creator registry (it's not like the Windows registry, mind you. File matching only.), but it seems to lack one.
Use the list view, and navagate with the arrow keys (or by typing the name of a file) and pressing Apple-O. It's like a graphical command-line that way.
It's slow. No really, even on 10.2, I could watch as it rerendered the Finder on a complex directory structure. Quartz Extreme me all you like, I didn't try it with that, as the drivers for the card in the machine I was using didn't support it (the owner had upgraded it himself). Rox is fast. The Finder is slow.
The Finder doesn't take up memory with caching all the directory structures, just the most recent. So the rendering is slow due to the Finder reading the icons + positions + the directory listing and all the other info from the disk. Buy a faster disk, or for a nice test, open a folder, watch it render slow, close it, and immediately open it back up. Ahh. Besides, by the time you find what you want, it's usually done drawing anyway. This is nitpicking.
Primitive typing: in Rox if I view the properties of a file, the "file" program will scan it and try to figure out what exactly it is. It'll say for instance "Screenshot.png: PNG image data, 1024 x 768, 8-bit/color RGB, non-interlaced" or "ASCII Text, long lines". The Finder just says "Document" for any type that isn't explicitly registered with it, at least rox tries to guess based on some reasonably smart heuristics
Ahh, now we're getting somewhere. This has been a problem since OS X, because type and creator codes are no longer required, and thus files dont' always have them. The most common types such as
Apparently no Rox/Nautilus type-ahead tab complete. This isn't a "hard" feature, once you know it's there anybody can use it, I've seen die hard Windowsers pick it up in less than 10 seconds. If the Finder has it, it didn't make it particularly obvious. Rox has a great implementation, just hit / and use it like you would the CLI, you can see it scan through the directories as you type, and get visual feedback as it matches. Nautilus2 has something similar though not as slick if you press Ctrl-L
A simple RTFM solves this. Use the technique I described above, type the name until the highlight matches, and Apple-O, or any other keyboard shortcut you'd like, depending of course, on what you want to do with the file. You can actually move quite fast once you get the hang of it, it comes as natural as typing and using the shift key.
No address bar? I feel sure it can mount FTP drives etc as it can do the iDisk, but there's no obvious place to type in any URLs for that.
Ahh, yes this feature coudl stand out a little more but the Finder is no Web Browser and therefore we keep this tucked away under the Go menu. Choose "Connect To Server..." or, for speed-shortcutting, use Apple-K (Konnect, C interferes with Copy). You can also add a button to the toolbar and click it if you so desire, go to View->Customize Toolbar... and drag and drop the buttons from the window to the toolbar to arrange.
You clearly like the Finder toupsie, but then you like anything that is Apple, and hate anything that isn't, this is a theme that comes across in most of your posts. File management is very much a personal thing - don't assume your view is the "right" view. Comments like "I can't explain, you must just use it" don't help your arguments by the way.
You clearly haven't used the Finder much, IamTheRealMike, but then you also seem to not care because it is Apple. This is a theme that came across in your post. Dont' assume you need to tell someone off because they defended their view - if I was to bad mouth the Linux kernel I'd be killed on this website, by all the slashdotters doing the same. Give it another try, look around carefully, Apple does things differently for a reason. You won't be a power user in a day. That's why Apple's interface is great, it does things logically but not the way other interfaces too. There is too much similarity with other file borwsers that limits them in some respects.
Of course, choice is yours, and I'm not suggesting you "switch", I'll leave Apple's ad dept up to that. It's like switchng from an automatic to a stick. Sure it's different, sometimes harder, but some people liek to drive stick alot more. (Ohh the trolls will have a field day with that!)
Toupsie: While I agree with you on the Finder, that was rather vague. Perhaps next time point out some of the things you feel make the Finder strong?
Yes, rendezvous is a cleaned up implementation because they saw it already done before.
Exactly, Apple isn't exactly trying to innovate (that's really is such a marketing word anyways), they're just trying to provide a nice, clean, workable solution that will be friendly to everyone.
Whether they have succeded or not remains to be seen, as developers adopt this new "technology". I haven't really been keeping my programming skills up to date, leaning Cocoa/Objective C, the ins-and outs of OS X, etc. so I am not quite qualified to state the usefulness of Rendezvous just yet... I hope it's good, because it sounds quite nifty.
Except that it's open and free for use, encouraged on all platforms.
NetBIOS is pretty much limited to Windows, and it's kludgy on other OSes. Plus it's proprietary and somewhat unreliable.
No, really, take your own advice.
Without a server, clients need to simply discover each other. Rendezvous will allow then to do this, clean and without user intervention (i.e. no typing in someone's computer name or IP). The protocol of transer will be TCP/IP, however I believe you're refering to the structure of the datagram, i.e. what goes into each packet that is sent, which is entirely up to the designers.
I don't think Rendezvous is overrated at all. I think it's the way things should have been done 10 years ago, and it's almost sad that it wasn't.
Build on the success of Evolution.
Does that meean this software will come into common use and become the de-facto standard everywhere except America's Bible-belt?
Ohh, just put them in front of a modern TV, this things that can induce epilepsy?
No, you have to be epileptic first. The TV or any strobing light can cause a reaction. Car headlights through the cracks in a picket fence, for example, or a police car.
Maybe monotone tones (Anybody clubbing??) can induce hardwiring in the brain of young children or even babys or unborn ones?
My high school math teacher was much more monotone than any of the music I listen to, and I'm a techno DJ. Exposure to THAT guy at such a young age def. messed with my head. That and he tried to get me over his house after school one da...uhh maybe I shouldn't be telling you this.
At my university there is a project about allergies. Its seem that there is at least corollar data that combines allergies to too much hygiene.
It would make sense that people who are "not used to it" are more susceptible, but I work in a dusty enviroment, and since my house has been under contruction I live in a dusty enviroment, and I haven't adjuested to it yet... YMMV.
My girlfriend is Korean and when she read this she died laughing. She printed your post and it's haning on her wall in her dorm room!
Oh yea, she promised to show me what "Korean High-Bandwidth Penetration" is all about later tonight...
...so Microsoft will stop selling XBoxes here.
Slightly OT: Imagine what Microsoft will do when people figure out how to mod chip Palladium-"Enchanced" motherboards?
"Chage the law or else we'll stop selling Windows." YEA, THAT will go over well.
Or possibly....
Read the fscking GPL first?