I've been trying to figure out how to get web pages to load slower. There are only so many things you can add to a page before you run out of ideas, and as cool as it is, the falling snow effect looks stupid 3 out of 12 months a year.
Yeah I know it has real potential for some serious implementations, but we all know that you're just going to have 3d rotating logs, 3d menus and other such junk more than anything else.
Or using your analogy. The tests that the oven may blow up but save 50% on the energy bill has been shown that the net benefit is on the side of the oven that may potentially blow up!
How so? The average yearly cost of an oven is $42. You're telling me that you'd accept the risk of injury, possibly death to save $21 a year?
From my experience, most people don't have a cage, or even a rack full of servers that can sustain the loss of a single server going down.
Most don't even run at more than 40% utilization and the performance is not that important.
What is important is that their system is reliable and that they don't have to waste time rebuilding it.
The server and the operating system should just work. I'm more an application developer than anything else. That's were most of my time is spent. What I know about servers and operating systems I learned so that I can put my applications on something I don't have to worry about. A server being down means loss of revenue.
In most cases, it's cheaper to buy a faster cpu, faster disks, use raid 10 than it is to suffer any significant downtime.
If you bought a new oven and it had an option to reduce gas consumption but in "relatively rare" situations it could explode while you were cooking, what setting would you leave it on?
I've seen other things like this over the years, and that's why I am now deploying applications on Solaris. Like all software it's not completely bug free, but I haven't had any problems, and their philosophy seems to be to not intentionally make decisions that could blow people up.
What makes you think SuSE unconsciously made the trade off? The default setting is to have barriers disabled. They would have had to override the default behavior.
openSuSE's disk I/O was slower because they enabled an option that the other didn't. Not enabling that option "runs the risk of severe filesystem corruption during a crash". Looks like they changed it to be like the other distros so they wouldn't look so bad during the benchmark.
That's nice. Compromise stability for performance. This is the type of stupid crap that makes people wonder... Gee, why is such and such so much faster?
The other issue was already reported as a bug on X11.
So the benchmarks didn't expose anything that wasn't already known.
Maybe it's a good benchmark suite, I haven't really looked at it, but maybe they should find other people to run it based on some of the comments here.
i've seen this. no constraints on the data that is orginally put in, not enough referential integrity and you get customers opening up a lot of trouble tickets and you end up hiring people to clean up the data every time a mistake is found
Really not trying to troll here, but this isn't too far from what a lot of people are dealing with when they use MySQL, especially the MyISAM engine.
A lot of people are using MySQL so it's just another step in the same direction.
In some projects, RDBM's aren't necessary. Look at what Google's been able to do with Bigtable/MapReduce. The open source equivalent seems to be Apache's HBase in the Hadoop project.
You don't want to store the same data in multiple places. Your query might run faster, but your data integrity is going to suck.
I wonder if normalization is going to be less important as de-duplication gets integrated into more file systems.
It's going to be a part of ZFS later this year I think. It looks like it's going to be a block level implementation within ZFS rather than file level. Since ZFS uses a copy on write model it seems fairly easy for them to implement compared to other file systems.
Databases that work on top of existing filesystems could benefit from this whereas databases that use block level addressing (Oracle) may not, but they might be dealing with this in other ways.
It kinda makes sense. Build your DB for the best performance and let the underlying file system handle normalization.
I don't know enough about the tech to determine if this would be an applicable usage but I don't see why not.
Who says Google doesn't pay for service contracts?
Google is open in many ways but very secretive in others. Especially about their infrastructure.
Their main search platform, probably not, but not everything seems to run on the main search platform.
A few years ago it was easy to find links to McNealy talking about how sun servers were used to power adwords/adsense or something along those lines. Hard to find those links now. All I can seem to find is this story where mcnealy mentions he can't give specifics about Sun/Google business
I don't know what the current state of things are but neither do you. If you did know, you wouldn't be allowed to say anything.
Now, for large software packages we certainly don't run without paid support, but that's another matter entirely.
No, it's not another matter entirely. It's exactly what the Sun Cloud is about. Don't know what you and all the other people talking about utility computing and thin clients have to do with this discussion.
Actually, now might be just the right time to promote those tools.
Many people want to cut costs and increase time to market. If you and other developers are already using tools that can do that, that eliminates or reduces the primary barrier, training.
Jonathan Schwartz put out a series of 4 videos on his blog (YouTube versions here) where he outlines the strategy you mentioned.
It seems to make sense. The economic downturn really hurt sun because a lot of it's big clients in their high margin areas were on Wall St.
I hope they work through it because they're a very innovative company for their size. For example, Intel still hasn't released their 8 core (2 threads per core) chips yet, while Sun has had 8 core 8 thread per core chips for a while now. They are even able to run them in multi socket systems.
All this cloud nonsense is silly. Most end-users and businesses have invested way too much money in powerful workstations, desktops, and laptops, to justify scrapping them in favor of ultralights depending on cloud computing. It's just a marketing pipe dream.
The version of the cloud they are releasing is similar to the Amazon EC2 platform. It is not currently aimed at "workstatinos, desktops and laptops" as you said. The primary focus seems to be for startups and other companies that need an easy way to grow their infrastructure without having to make a big investment in hardware.
One example is a merchant that does 90% of their business around Christmas. Instead of having a rack full of expensive computers in a colo facility sitting 90% idle most of the year, they can expand their capacity just when they need it and save a lot of money.
It's very cool. Think about all the times you've developed your dream infrastructure and maybe drew it out in Visio or Dia, except when you're adding shapes into your network diagram, actual virtual servers are being deployed.
At least that's what the demonstration shows.
Now lets say you're having a problem with your appllcation and you don't know where it is but you have to do some stress testing to figure it out. You can't do that to your live system.
You can essentially copy and paste your whole production configuration as a test environment, run your tests, profiling, fix your application, then delete the whole setup and never have to pay for it again. You can't do that with real hardware.
You could do the same with a development environment. And it seems you only pay while it's running, so you launch it from 9-5 (ok 11:30ish to 4:19pm) and turn it off the rest of the time to save money. Should be much cheaper than buying twice as many real servers.
Fair use is an affirmative defense, you can't just claim it as a right but have to prove your use was "fair" in court.
As a site owner, I believe he is protected by the safe harbor provisions; the takedown notice likely identifies the forum poster as in violation and not the site. So he can just pass along the take down notice to the poster and let him deal with it. But to retain safe harbor protections he will have to take the message down until there is a resolution.
A good site to visit is eff.org. I believe you can forward the take down notice to them and they will either take on the case or forward it to a lawyer that might help for a fee. Or maybe that's just for cease and desist orders? Anyway, the site is a good place to start looking for information.
Doesn't look like Nasa even suggested the name of a great scientist eiter. Unless Legacy, Serenity, Earthrise and Venture are scientists I don't know about.
What he says about RIA might be controversial but there is some validity to what he says. There is a lot to be said for simplicity of interface and richness of content. That has been the hallmark of most great websites.
That's not to say user interfaces couldn't be improved on the web through technologies such as AJAX, but I feel it should be used more as a condiment rather than the main course.
I remember back in the 90's people kept saying "push" technologies will be the next big thing but that didn't seem to be the case.
By the way, there was a cool presentation of the Sun Cloud at CommunityOne last week. It's pretty neat. I think that cloud computing should still abstract scaling from the user, but that may never happen or will take a lot longer to implement.
Right now it's just like drawing a network diagram in Visio, except the symbols in your drawing represent actual virtual servers in the Sun Cloud. It's pretty neat. It will be interesting to see what the pricing will be like. They say they are planning on being price competitive with other platforms, which should mean it should be similar with Amazon's EC2???
There are plenty of people with servers out there that don't know what they're doing and couldn't restart a service if their control panel software got hosed.
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I'm not laughing at it. I'm cringing at the almost certain misuse.
I've been trying to figure out how to get web pages to load slower. There are only so many things you can add to a page before you run out of ideas, and as cool as it is, the falling snow effect looks stupid 3 out of 12 months a year.
Yeah I know it has real potential for some serious implementations, but we all know that you're just going to have 3d rotating logs, 3d menus and other such junk more than anything else.
Or using your analogy. The tests that the oven may blow up but save 50% on the energy bill has been shown that the net benefit is on the side of the oven that may potentially blow up!
How so? The average yearly cost of an oven is $42. You're telling me that you'd accept the risk of injury, possibly death to save $21 a year?
From my experience, most people don't have a cage, or even a rack full of servers that can sustain the loss of a single server going down.
Most don't even run at more than 40% utilization and the performance is not that important.
What is important is that their system is reliable and that they don't have to waste time rebuilding it.
The server and the operating system should just work. I'm more an application developer than anything else. That's were most of my time is spent. What I know about servers and operating systems I learned so that I can put my applications on something I don't have to worry about. A server being down means loss of revenue.
In most cases, it's cheaper to buy a faster cpu, faster disks, use raid 10 than it is to suffer any significant downtime.
If you bought a new oven and it had an option to reduce gas consumption but in "relatively rare" situations it could explode while you were cooking, what setting would you leave it on?
I've seen other things like this over the years, and that's why I am now deploying applications on Solaris. Like all software it's not completely bug free, but I haven't had any problems, and their philosophy seems to be to not intentionally make decisions that could blow people up.
What makes you think SuSE unconsciously made the trade off? The default setting is to have barriers disabled. They would have had to override the default behavior.
What's so special about that example you gave?
openSuSE's disk I/O was slower because they enabled an option that the other didn't. Not enabling that option "runs the risk of severe filesystem corruption during a crash". Looks like they changed it to be like the other distros so they wouldn't look so bad during the benchmark.
That's nice. Compromise stability for performance. This is the type of stupid crap that makes people wonder... Gee, why is such and such so much faster?
The other issue was already reported as a bug on X11.
So the benchmarks didn't expose anything that wasn't already known.
Maybe it's a good benchmark suite, I haven't really looked at it, but maybe they should find other people to run it based on some of the comments here.
i've seen this. no constraints on the data that is orginally put in, not enough referential integrity and you get customers opening up a lot of trouble tickets and you end up hiring people to clean up the data every time a mistake is found
Really not trying to troll here, but this isn't too far from what a lot of people are dealing with when they use MySQL, especially the MyISAM engine.
A lot of people are using MySQL so it's just another step in the same direction.
In some projects, RDBM's aren't necessary. Look at what Google's been able to do with Bigtable/MapReduce. The open source equivalent seems to be Apache's HBase in the Hadoop project.
You don't want to store the same data in multiple places. Your query might run faster, but your data integrity is going to suck.
I wonder if normalization is going to be less important as de-duplication gets integrated into more file systems.
It's going to be a part of ZFS later this year I think. It looks like it's going to be a block level implementation within ZFS rather than file level. Since ZFS uses a copy on write model it seems fairly easy for them to implement compared to other file systems.
Databases that work on top of existing filesystems could benefit from this whereas databases that use block level addressing (Oracle) may not, but they might be dealing with this in other ways.
It kinda makes sense. Build your DB for the best performance and let the underlying file system handle normalization.
I don't know enough about the tech to determine if this would be an applicable usage but I don't see why not.
Who says Google doesn't pay for service contracts?
Google is open in many ways but very secretive in others. Especially about their infrastructure.
Their main search platform, probably not, but not everything seems to run on the main search platform.
A few years ago it was easy to find links to McNealy talking about how sun servers were used to power adwords/adsense or something along those lines. Hard to find those links now. All I can seem to find is this story where mcnealy mentions he can't give specifics about Sun/Google business
I don't know what the current state of things are but neither do you. If you did know, you wouldn't be allowed to say anything.
Now, for large software packages we certainly don't run without paid support, but that's another matter entirely.
No, it's not another matter entirely. It's exactly what the Sun Cloud is about. Don't know what you and all the other people talking about utility computing and thin clients have to do with this discussion.
In large companies, you don't run equipment without a service contract.
Typical service contracts run for 3 years. You can continue to pay for support, but at some point you're paying more than it would cost to buy new.
Actually, now might be just the right time to promote those tools.
Many people want to cut costs and increase time to market. If you and other developers are already using tools that can do that, that eliminates or reduces the primary barrier, training.
Jonathan Schwartz put out a series of 4 videos on his blog (YouTube versions here) where he outlines the strategy you mentioned.
It seems to make sense. The economic downturn really hurt sun because a lot of it's big clients in their high margin areas were on Wall St.
I hope they work through it because they're a very innovative company for their size. For example, Intel still hasn't released their 8 core (2 threads per core) chips yet, while Sun has had 8 core 8 thread per core chips for a while now. They are even able to run them in multi socket systems.
All this cloud nonsense is silly. Most end-users and businesses have invested way too much money in powerful workstations, desktops, and laptops, to justify scrapping them in favor of ultralights depending on cloud computing. It's just a marketing pipe dream.
The version of the cloud they are releasing is similar to the Amazon EC2 platform. It is not currently aimed at "workstatinos, desktops and laptops" as you said. The primary focus seems to be for startups and other companies that need an easy way to grow their infrastructure without having to make a big investment in hardware.
One example is a merchant that does 90% of their business around Christmas. Instead of having a rack full of expensive computers in a colo facility sitting 90% idle most of the year, they can expand their capacity just when they need it and save a lot of money.
Sun put up some videos from a recent conference where they annouced the Sun Cloud.
It's very cool. Think about all the times you've developed your dream infrastructure and maybe drew it out in Visio or Dia, except when you're adding shapes into your network diagram, actual virtual servers are being deployed.
At least that's what the demonstration shows.
Now lets say you're having a problem with your appllcation and you don't know where it is but you have to do some stress testing to figure it out. You can't do that to your live system.
You can essentially copy and paste your whole production configuration as a test environment, run your tests, profiling, fix your application, then delete the whole setup and never have to pay for it again. You can't do that with real hardware.
You could do the same with a development environment. And it seems you only pay while it's running, so you launch it from 9-5 (ok 11:30ish to 4:19pm) and turn it off the rest of the time to save money. Should be much cheaper than buying twice as many real servers.
Fair use is an affirmative defense, you can't just claim it as a right but have to prove your use was "fair" in court.
As a site owner, I believe he is protected by the safe harbor provisions; the takedown notice likely identifies the forum poster as in violation and not the site. So he can just pass along the take down notice to the poster and let him deal with it. But to retain safe harbor protections he will have to take the message down until there is a resolution.
A good site to visit is eff.org. I believe you can forward the take down notice to them and they will either take on the case or forward it to a lawyer that might help for a fee. Or maybe that's just for cease and desist orders? Anyway, the site is a good place to start looking for information.
I'm not a lawyer.
I mean constitution.
They named the first space shuttle after the U.S.S. Enterpise NCC-1701!
And it was a write-in campaign that got the name changed to Enterprise from Constellation.
Doesn't look like Nasa even suggested the name of a great scientist eiter. Unless Legacy, Serenity, Earthrise and Venture are scientists I don't know about.
I'm surprised they didn't go with Tek Jansen in the first place.
Oh well, maybe the astronauts will cut off the beginning and just call it the Bert module.
Yet another reason to include bears on the threatdown.
Not knowing what either of these is, I to2ly phear ur 733t no77idg3z of teh codez.
Not caring what either of these is, I p155 on ur ri10 skillz.
If you don't know what those things are, maybe reading stories on developers.slashdot.org is not for you.
What he says about RIA might be controversial but there is some validity to what he says. There is a lot to be said for simplicity of interface and richness of content. That has been the hallmark of most great websites.
That's not to say user interfaces couldn't be improved on the web through technologies such as AJAX, but I feel it should be used more as a condiment rather than the main course.
I remember back in the 90's people kept saying "push" technologies will be the next big thing but that didn't seem to be the case.
By the way, there was a cool presentation of the Sun Cloud at CommunityOne last week. It's pretty neat. I think that cloud computing should still abstract scaling from the user, but that may never happen or will take a lot longer to implement.
Right now it's just like drawing a network diagram in Visio, except the symbols in your drawing represent actual virtual servers in the Sun Cloud. It's pretty neat. It will be interesting to see what the pricing will be like. They say they are planning on being price competitive with other platforms, which should mean it should be similar with Amazon's EC2???
There are plenty of people with servers out there that don't know what they're doing and couldn't restart a service if their control panel software got hosed.
This sounds very similar to the turbo mode in opensolaris that Intel has been working on.
without giving you the option to terminate the process
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