Funny you say that. Our Jeep gets 18 city and 28 highway; the V6 that they tried to talk us into got 12 city and 18 highway. Glad we opted for the diesel, eh?
My car has a 600-700 mile range. I fill it up twice a month. This car has a 100mi range that would last 1 day, if that, with my use. I live in a condo, as do over half the residents in my area. No garage.
This is not designed for everyone, it's designed for an elite few who have both a garage and a short commute. If it costs $30k thats $4k more than a fully loaded Jetta TDI wagon would cost; which will still go 600-700 miles on a tank of ultra low sulfur diesel fuel or biodiesel blended fuel, it also has near-0 emissions thanks to the urea-less emissions scrubbing components found in the exhaust. The Jetta will also have a +300,000 mile life; and have less of a performance hit in the winter unlike this (or any) EV. Even the Prius gets worse winter economy and longer "charge" cycles to its batteries.
What we need are more diesel cars with the same 600-700 mile range that my car gets.
For the record my car runs on chicken fat and waste vegetable oil, and sometimes tobacco seed oil, so it always smells like a small kitchen and has 60% less VOCs, 48% less CO2 than diesel (which is marginally smaller in CO2 output than gas as I recall, comparing to ULSD at least), and has a carbon life cycle built into it (unlike fossil fuels).
This is cool for a student, perhaps, and I can see this becoming the cool for all the Dukies and Chapel Hillians out there. Complete with special "reminds me of the drive in" parking lots with charger polls at each space, and since the cars are the size of a Versa the parking spaces can be closer together and half the length of a normal one.
198 miles is a usable range? To drive it from Carolina to Arkansas would take roughly 40 minutes in charge time (plausible, I suppose, if the diner or rest stop had charging stations).
However, I fill my car up once on that whole trip -- when I get ready to love. 700 highway miles should be the new standard, not 200-350 miles.
If I recall the Audi Diesel didn't need to stop for fuel as often. I think the EVs big challenge will be keeping pace with the Audi and Fiat (Puegeot?) Diesels at Le Mans.
I don't know, but if I was looking to place a datacenter... tax cuts, well qualified personnel already in state (ahem, as stated IBM's in the back yard), and existing big names proving that the network backbone can stand the throughput (Google, SSA, Apple...)... would persuade me to consider North Carolina over, say, Virginia, and that ripple effect (Or iPod Halo effect?) has yet to be seen.
I sincerely doubt Apple would have looked into my state had Google not already decided to do business here.
I do see your point, but again, I think you discount the ripple effect. I would not want a datacenter in Memphis for many reasons. I would want it in rural NC where the fiber is exclusive.
You are entirely correct. Diesel engines are anywhere from 30% to 40% more efficient.
Compare the 3.7L V6 5000LB Towing Rating 4x4 Jeep Liberty Sport to the 2.8L inline 4 common rail diesel 5000LB Towing Rated 4x4 Jeep Liberty Sport (both 2005 model): V6 EPA rated 15/20, CRD 19/23. Real world is more like 22/28.
VW Jetta, 2.5L is 19/28, TDI is 30/37 (originally rated 36/41), real world in both (as I've owned them) was 22/26 2.5L and 41/47 TDI (It's entirely possible to get 50-51MPG if you drive below 65MPH.) A recent trip to Mississippi averaging 72MPH (until I hit Atlanta, then resumed to 75MPH on I-20) results in 675 miles on 14.7 gallons, or 46MPG. With AC. It has room for 4. The trunk is bigger than the Camry's. It was an IIHS Safety pick.
Biodiesel, of any percentage, does not kill injection pumps or fuel systems -- unless they are truly old, non-viton lines, pre-1995. So basically everything built in the past 15 years should be B100 OK. B20 is the most common blend and it will not result in any fuel line issues, but the EPA-mandated clean diesel emissions scrubbers may or may not play well with blends above 5 to 10%. Its a pity, given the only ill effect of using B100 in my 2006 was a 4MPG loss in city (36MPG is still better than most Camry's), not much of a loss highway (I've gotten 47-49MPG many, many, many times on B100 on the highway as far as Des Monies, Austin, and Memphis), reduces the soot could by over 70%, and it smells of fried foods (not a grease trap). Other than making tailgaters hungry, biodiesel has little downside when one considers that it's being made from algae, hemp, wasted vegetable oils (including tobacco seed oil), and animal fats. Of course, like petrodiesel, it freezes, but using a mixure of different types in different climates would result in a diversified fuel system that meets the needs of the local environment to which it is used. IE, Hawaii and Florida and SoCal can get away with pig or chicken fat biodiesel with some additives as they never get cold enough for it to fully congeal, Minnesota and other northern points will have to use a 70/30 blend of bio to petrol, and use more tollerable feedstocks like canola or hemp oil. In between can be a blend of all these biodiesels for summer use. CO2 drops, NOx increases but can be remedied with a NOx trap (standard on 2007-later clean diesels), etc etc.
Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel. 15ppm sulfur (down from 550 enacted in the 90s, down from 15,000PPM in the 80s, and god only knows what it was before then).
we have a diesel jeep liberty (one of 11,250 made). It gets about 400 miles in the city (21.05), and a minimum of 550 miles on 19 gallons (28.94MPG) on the highway. The V6, with the same towing power and options, gets at best 18 on the highway. Please tell me how our diesel is more polluting when it uses less toxic fuel from the get go? You also totally neglect the capability of diesel engines to use vegetable oils as a fuel, which has a lower CO2 footprint all the way around.
The fact is that those diesel eninges are CLEANER in industrial application than a gas engine would be. If a 6-banger diesel SEMI truck (most all are only inline 6's, while my dad's truck is 8 cyl and I've seen 10 and 12-cyl cars) gets 10 to 12MPG pulling the loads they pull, I imagine you'd need a 10 to 12 cyl gas engine with double the fuel tank to get about 6MPG doing the same job. How is that more efficient or cleaner? It's not, thats the answer.
My diesel Jeep gets 22 city and 28 highway -- it meets the 2016 criteria. My VW TDI (Diesel) gets 40 city and 49 highway -- again, meets the criteria.
This isn't rocket science, it's just rolling out 100 year old technology that was doomed by design thanks to GM in the 80s. The dude from the UK's post is a prime example of how backwater we Americans are. Hell a Honda Civic HX (last sold in 2004) can get 42MPG on regular gasoline....
However I do find the 5000LB towing and 4x4 on the Jeep impressive since it *still* gets better economy than most 4-banger Saturns. It's not exactly aerodynamic, either.
Slap a Urea-injection clean diesel exhaust (from MB or Audi) and you've got yourself a car that meets emissions and economy requirements AND uses a new additive that needs to be replaced every xxx,xxx miles -- means more service money for the company -- all the while we reduce the number of gallons we burn in a year, reduce import, beef up renewable (biodiesel, hello, it works in any diesel engine) from algae and AG waste products and suddendly we have our large SUVs that seat 8 (even when only 1 person drives it around 80% of the time) with all that towing power but you fill it up LESS. A LOT less.
4.7L Jeep - 350 to 360 highway miles per 19 gallons. 2.8L Diesel 550 to 575 miles per 19 gallons. Even when Diesel was 50 cents more per gallon, if I'm going an additional 200 miles on the same number of gallons, you can't tell me that the diesel costs more to operate when I spent $47.50 for 550mi and to achieve that in the gas jeep you'd spend $38 for the first tank and another $22 to match the extra mileage I got out of my first tank for a total of $60. I saved $12.50 and 22 minutes of time on the road by not having to refuel the vehicle.
Does it make sense now?
Understood, and I love the idea of your highway. I don't understand why all cell phones and ipods aren't self-charging, I mean all calculators can do it with simple solar cells...
I want to keep this short, so here goes. Polls can be wrong, as are the EPA's finding. Go look up the 2005 Jeep Liberty/Cherokee 4x4. Look at the Diesel and 3.7L automatic (the two most sold vehicles of that year). Look at the details page and take note of the user-reported fuel economy. Do the same for the 2006 VW Jetta manual Diesel vs 2.0T and 2.5L inline 5. The diesel blows them away both in EPA rating and real world reporting. Take a look at the number of people reporting data.
Oil: you're wasting money and resources with a 3k interval. I've done several oil analysis over the years to convince myself that 10k is safe. Blackstone told me with one 2002 car that it could go to 13,500 miles between oil changes. Use synthetic, change it 5k to 7k miles, and it will be OK. To think otherwise is really undermining the advances made in oil technology, and feeding the planned obsolescence system.
Unusual workforce you say. I thought so too, until I found out how many people drive into DC from NC, VA, MD, ME, and other surrounding states. It's actually more common than you think. Polls are not always accurate and it depends on whom you ask. Survey people who work in one country but own a home in another and suddenly the facts change. I also can cite the entire state of mississippi. Most people who live there don't have a job in state, it is out of state. 60-120mi one way is normal, every day, expected.
You see more diesel VWs and Trucks for sale down there for a reason: Economy. My drama teacher in high school lives in Grenada MS and drove to Memphis TN (germantown, really) daily to teach. We asked how he afforded this one day. He said his diesel VW Beetle gets 900 miles out of a tank, so he fills it up every week just about -- at the time it cost less than $30. We were astonished by this. He said his whole family has driven diesel cars since 1977 when the VW Rabbit diesel came out and have never found anything comparable to replace it. I asked him about the Prius and he said it was too expensive for anyone who needs that kind of economy because you're looking at 100k miles in under 2.5 years of driving, and at the rate of battery replacements, he'd be throwing $4k into the car every 3-4 years, along with the timing belt (at the time the Prius had both normal car maintenance and the battery upkeep, new models are chain based and supposedly only need battery work). Made sense to me, this was in 2001 when the Prius was being launched. The Honda Insight was already for sale.
Lastly, it does take all types. The problem is that my reaction showcases the type of response a lot of people will give to EVs. Expensive. Costly. Short rage. Not worth it. It's the same reasons (sans the short range) that was given to the 80s diesels; many are still on the road yes, but they didn't come with automatics, the GM models sent pistons through the hood of the car around 50k miles if you were unlucky enough, and they all had a lot of issues. Good idea executed poorly, but what was the result? The 35MPG Caddy's, Delta 88's and 60MPG Ford Escorts (1984 model, see here: http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/1845/4701/29612350015_large.jpg) all went to the wayside and we went back to being happy with 25MPG... a standard still accepted today.
So forgive me if I think a 200mi range is laughable, I feel it is. I work and know people who put 200+mi on a car every day, and while it would be possible to make it work by plugging in while at work, I think we both agree that a large portion of Americans would forget to do it and thus be left stranded at some point in time. It might only happen once (its like running a diesel out, you tend to only do it once), but it would happen. Growing pains I suppose, but I think now to 2020, w
Do you use a feather tether harness for your Amazon or have you handled him since birth? We just started using a harness and it's been better than I'd expected. I have a more profound respect for YouTube, the videos on parrots and training have been quite helpful....
I'm really not up to debate this anymore. I don't trust the EPA. If you look at the User Input on fueleconomy the TDI New Beetle (pre-2005 models) have 40/50 economy, Motorweek's Review of the 99 model (engine used from 1998 to 2004, then replaced with a 100HP Pump Duse motor, which was in use in all models except the 05.5-06 Jetta which used slightly different 100HP Motor, the 05 Passat was the only model with a 2.0L Diesel). They also noted it emits less CO2 while deliverying 27% more torque than the 2.0L Beetle (the gas engine available until 2005, when the 2.5L came out). The 2.5L is a hog, it gets really bad economy -- thats what we traded (in Jetta form) for the Jeep, and the Jeep has out performed it since. The EPA has historically rated Diesels poorly; they gave the award for "most fuel efficient car ever" to the 99 Honda Insight at 63MPG highway EXCEPT that the 1984 EPA Rating for the Ford Escort Diesel was 68 Highway (see this ad: http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/1845/4701/29612350015_large.jpg)... the 84 data is no longer available, and they don't always have the data for all vehicles that came with a diesel for every year. Also they don't list economy for large trucks (F250 or bigger), which is where you *really* see the difference that a diesel makes.
I will say you're as passionate about your vehicle options as I am. I think the two have a place in the US, because we live two very different (but yet similar) lifestyles. I'd really like to see a diesel-electric hybrid, and I hope that VW is solid on their commitment of a Hybrid TDI Jetta in the 2012 timeframe, one made at the new USA/Chattanooga TN plant.
Also, as far as the wiring and HOA restrictions, we have no such protections where I live. I've seen people's solar installs be removed after lengthy court battles, and the HOA wins. Feel blessed where you are but do realize that what is working for you simply can't work for others (due to political limitation, no due to science or anything of legit fact). I've enjoyed this debate with you, but I still hold out that no electric in the next 15 years is going to be able to replace my Diesels. I hope to be proven wrong, but I feel we overlook usable technologies in the quest to find better ones, and yet keep using the same old broken crap.
"And so the project principals are looking to city officials at each of the intermediate stations, seven in total, and asking them to put up $5,000 toward the $35,000 study cost."
I'm not convinced that solar panels alone can power the train at all times, but I really do like the idea. The concept of having electric cars with a 50mi range for rent at the stations is also novel, reminds me of ZipCar and TriMet's MAX Lightrail in Portland Oregon.
I don't know what type of car you had prior but I change my oil every 10,000 miles at $50 a change or so, the air filter is every 20k miles at $10 each and the pollen filter for the AC system (cabin filter, not all cars have these) is every 40,000 miles. My car can run off fuel made from algae, they only need sunlight and waste water to make fuel, so yes technically my car can run off the sun. For that matter I could get away with using pure water and a veggie-oil based non-synthetic motor oil that is available if I want to have green bling. Instead I look at what is practical. Your 200mi EV fails in comfort and economy to my Diesel, especially if the goal is take 5 200LB adults with luggage 250 miles with no more than 20 minute brakes every 100mi.
At the current price of 2.19 I could drive to and from the pool about 4 times on a single gallon, 2.19/4=0.54, so yes technically I can.
I drive about 26mi to work, most of the people I work with drive better than 50mi in a single direction, some pushing 80mi. EVs will not work for *any* of us, and *most* of us couldn't afford the $500k-1M homes near the office, so we had no choice but to buy away from the industrial park. Around these parts (and by these parts I mean NC, I'm from TN and my family is from MS which has no jobs except to drive to TN and work -- 60 to 120mi one way a day is normal for most Missippians), an EV is nothing but a waste of time, a diesel makes far more sense.
When the EV can go 600 to 700 miles (thats a week's worth of driving for my mother, who lives in MS) then you've got something. Until then, your largest demographic that bought SUVs (southerns) will be looking at anything that isn't powered by an electric motor to suit their driving needs.
Did I mention that I've actively lobbies for a commuter rail, and have been shot down because people don't want to ride with the "riff raff" that use public transportation? Now you see why I've switched to lobbying for diesel and domestic plant-based biofuels, notably fuel that comes from non-consumable plants like hemp or algae (but algae isn't really a plant).
An African grey parrot, we're probably going to be adopting another one. He's between 15 and 17 in age.
First up you're wrong regarding it takes more to refine diesel, par the DOE: http://www.eia.doe.gov/kids/energyfacts/sources/non-renewable/oil.html#How%20used Based on this you can't get a single product from a barrel, while your logic is semi-correct in that if we only refined diesel we'd need to import more oil, we can easily offset that by using any number of renewable crops -- several of which have no human consumption traits, or are not frequently used as food oil -- soy and RME come to mind, followed by Jathropa and Hemp.
I don't really care how you slice it, when you look at a 2.0L Gasoline VW beetle that gets 28/32 and the 1.9L Diesel Beetle that gets 44/51, it's hard to say that the lightly higher NOx content is going to be critical given that the Diesel goes 220mi farther *on the same number of gallons* as the gasoline vehicle.
I'd love to take a look at your papers. You also dismiss condo/townhome owners, Home Owner's Associations that can regulate such things as solar panels or other electrical modifications to your home (such extremes do exist), and the fact that no builder is going to start incorporating it into the home building process as "main stream." On the one hand, I liked the idea of converting our old 89 Golf into an EV, but then I realized that I'd have to throw a 50ft cord from the balcony to the parking spot in front of the building -- assuming I could land that spot every time I come home -- to charge it, and likely deal with vandalism/stolen power in the process (happened before when I was charging the battery on the same car). The end result was, it's just not worth the effort and the savings aren't worthwhile with a midsized sedan getting 41+ economy on a regular basis off more to less vegetable oil.
In 50 years, I fully expect us to be on something electric. For the next 10-15 I would like to see us moving towards diesel powered technologies to drop the number of gallons of oil we use, for the average person a diesel option is $2k more a Hybrid is $4k extra and a pure EV is around $15k more as an option. If You can get a 4x4 SUV with 30 to 40MPG economy with a clean exhaust for $22k, why get the electric for $35k? The problem is neither are truly available right now. I drive more highway than city, and until EVs make sense in that kind of environment (and that applies to about 90% of southern car owners), they won't be popular.
One last thought, your concept is that you "never have to go" to the "inconvenience" of the gas station could hurt those small store owners. Fuel has never been profitable, the soda pop and candy bar were. While I have my own issues with such foods, I think that it's a bad idea to keep isolating society (the iPod's done enough damage) by never forcing social interaction with rituals like refueling your vehicle or grocery shopping.
Its not that I don't like Ubuntu, I actually really LOVE the Linux setup on the Asus and have no reason to want to change it. The Xandros linux has worked fine with the 3 Java apps I use, Timidity++ and GIMP/Gwled/OpenOffice were preinstalled or available as a download from the EEE Website... it was as point and click as it could possibly get. I cherish that in a computer.
I don't know whats wrong with your setup, but I have a 10" Asus EeePC with the v1.6 Xandros Linux for Asus OEM systems. I've plugged in several Epson inkjet, HP laser (granted not a Lexmark but I'll try). Each time the system prompts with a box that says "A printer is attached, do you want to set it up?" with "yes" and "no" buttons. I click "yes" and it starts a customized wizard that walks you though selecting the brand and model, granted if the model isn't listed (like the Brother HL-2140 we have), you need to google "Brother hl2140 linux" and see ath, guess what, it uses the HL2060 driver -- which is listed in the wizard -- and off you go.
This involves thinking, something that the automatic transmission latte sipping american public can't do.
i'm entirely ready to move out of this country.
We bought a diesel jeep (SUV) to haul around our bird cage 3-4 times a year to various events and shows, it beat the gas CAR it replaced by 8MPG highway but the city was about the same (22-23mpg). We also live in a flood zone, and it has flooded, so the 4x4 is something of a comfort. Perhaps I'm not the right one to ask such a question, I've never rented a vehicle to move something in my life (grew up with more pickups than cars). Perhaps you should spend $400 on Craigslist and get a beat up old truck, something old enough to not need inspection and put cheap tags on it, and save yourself the $50 rental fee? Or, make friends with trucks?
Your analogy wasn't altered. I work with people who really would make use of a printer like that *at home* because these folks are workaholics who can't read 300pg PDFs on the computer screen and have to print them out.
I think my overall point is that people have rather low expectations for their equipment. It's not unreasonable to ask a vehicle to give you a 600 to 700 mile range, even if you never need to utilize it. You said it yourself the idea is to go to the fill up station less. If you drive 10,000mi/year and get 600mi out of 14 gallons you're looking at fueling up a total of 16 times for the year. With the EV you have to plug it in every 200mi or so, that works out to 50 charges. My number is lower, but the cost may favor the electric (hard to say, I don't think it would where I live but our rates are a little higher I think). The nice thing about either technology is that you can DIY the fuel source for them (biodiesel or solar, or if your really into it pedal power). Diesel, however, is more rapidly deployable in the short term with near immediate payoff in terms of reducing emissions *and* reducing the number of imported gallons of oil.
Everyone does not need a 4-door sedan, but most people want them (not me I wish I had a hatch, took what I could get out of necessity). The EVs are trying to appeal to those who don't want the standard, this car is suitable for the masses and manages the overall goal: reduces the amount of fossil fuel we use, while giving the option of using renewable.
EVs will face the issue of is it bad power or clean power, you just took oil out of the equation. I don't think coal fire-charged EVs are any cleaner (in any way) than my Diesel running NC-derrived biodiesel.
I do. When we went to iowa we stopped every 2 hours, i hated it, but we made the stops and still got over 700 miles between fill ups.
I don't need to stop. I don't drink a ton of water (8oz every hour), a single 24-pack of bottled water and 2 boxes of granola bars are all I need to drive to texas -- and back -- with making no more than 6 stops along the way (including fuel).
Stops detract from your time on the road. If your in a hurry, as in you've got to be in St Louis by 5pm or else, stops are your enemy. I make the drive down I-40 from the heart of carolina to the mississippi river three times a year. In every gas car I've been in, including a Prius, keeping up with traffic, we stop for fuel at lease once if not three times (the prius stopped only once), and it takes about 20 minutes per stop before your back on the road. Result? 15 to 17 hour drive. I do it in less than 12 and a half with my diesel, every time. I'm just as ragged and tired without the stops and running a slower speed as I am making the stops, the difference is I save money and time (2 to 5 hours worth).
My question to you is, why do you think this is weird? I'm far, far from the "weird" types out there who shift into neutral and shut off their engines while driving.
As for the 50 pounds of paper mark, if you worked with the folks I did -- that would be something to talk about. They print up to 2000 sheets PER day, a ream of paper weighs 5 ponds, a 50-pound capable feeder would mean we'd only add paper to the unit twice a week... yes there are people out there that would utilize such a device.
my point is, on a bad day i get 550 miles out of the car in the city. everyone else is fortunate to break 300, and 450 if you've got a hybrid. i'm blowing them all away on a car with 100-year old technology. I'm not the crazy one here.
I work for myself, and have a lot of clients in a lot of states.
Plus the average miles driven is around 20k -- nearly double the "average 10k" where I live. Cars like these are really common.
The question is why DON'T people expect these kinds of ranges out of a 15-gallon tank. Welcome to 1977... my dad's Golf does better than this car, 50 city and 60 highway... and our neighbors 84 Ford Escort was EPA rated at 68.
We think that 28 is how acceptable. I think not. Electrics have to beat this for me to support them. They never will.
Also most of Europe is driving diesels. If anything I'm more worldly in my expectations of consumer products.
So you can go 700 miles highway like my diesel? With 4 250LB adults, another 100LB in luggage with the AC on?
If so you've made a feat. If not you're car is useless to me.
Slashdot Mirror
Funny you say that. Our Jeep gets 18 city and 28 highway; the V6 that they tried to talk us into got 12 city and 18 highway. Glad we opted for the diesel, eh?
My car has a 600-700 mile range. I fill it up twice a month. This car has a 100mi range that would last 1 day, if that, with my use. I live in a condo, as do over half the residents in my area. No garage.
This is not designed for everyone, it's designed for an elite few who have both a garage and a short commute. If it costs $30k thats $4k more than a fully loaded Jetta TDI wagon would cost; which will still go 600-700 miles on a tank of ultra low sulfur diesel fuel or biodiesel blended fuel, it also has near-0 emissions thanks to the urea-less emissions scrubbing components found in the exhaust. The Jetta will also have a +300,000 mile life; and have less of a performance hit in the winter unlike this (or any) EV. Even the Prius gets worse winter economy and longer "charge" cycles to its batteries.
What we need are more diesel cars with the same 600-700 mile range that my car gets.
For the record my car runs on chicken fat and waste vegetable oil, and sometimes tobacco seed oil, so it always smells like a small kitchen and has 60% less VOCs, 48% less CO2 than diesel (which is marginally smaller in CO2 output than gas as I recall, comparing to ULSD at least), and has a carbon life cycle built into it (unlike fossil fuels).
This is cool for a student, perhaps, and I can see this becoming the cool for all the Dukies and Chapel Hillians out there. Complete with special "reminds me of the drive in" parking lots with charger polls at each space, and since the cars are the size of a Versa the parking spaces can be closer together and half the length of a normal one.
198 miles is a usable range? To drive it from Carolina to Arkansas would take roughly 40 minutes in charge time (plausible, I suppose, if the diner or rest stop had charging stations). However, I fill my car up once on that whole trip -- when I get ready to love. 700 highway miles should be the new standard, not 200-350 miles.
If I recall the Audi Diesel didn't need to stop for fuel as often. I think the EVs big challenge will be keeping pace with the Audi and Fiat (Puegeot?) Diesels at Le Mans.
I don't know, but if I was looking to place a datacenter... tax cuts, well qualified personnel already in state (ahem, as stated IBM's in the back yard), and existing big names proving that the network backbone can stand the throughput (Google, SSA, Apple...) ... would persuade me to consider North Carolina over, say, Virginia, and that ripple effect (Or iPod Halo effect?) has yet to be seen.
I sincerely doubt Apple would have looked into my state had Google not already decided to do business here.
I do see your point, but again, I think you discount the ripple effect. I would not want a datacenter in Memphis for many reasons. I would want it in rural NC where the fiber is exclusive.
You are entirely correct. Diesel engines are anywhere from 30% to 40% more efficient.
Compare the 3.7L V6 5000LB Towing Rating 4x4 Jeep Liberty Sport to the 2.8L inline 4 common rail diesel 5000LB Towing Rated 4x4 Jeep Liberty Sport (both 2005 model): V6 EPA rated 15/20, CRD 19/23. Real world is more like 22/28.
VW Jetta, 2.5L is 19/28, TDI is 30/37 (originally rated 36/41), real world in both (as I've owned them) was 22/26 2.5L and 41/47 TDI (It's entirely possible to get 50-51MPG if you drive below 65MPH.) A recent trip to Mississippi averaging 72MPH (until I hit Atlanta, then resumed to 75MPH on I-20) results in 675 miles on 14.7 gallons, or 46MPG. With AC. It has room for 4. The trunk is bigger than the Camry's. It was an IIHS Safety pick.
Video of time lapse of the computer display of above trip in 2006 Jetta diesel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zDvSgg5QIY
Biodiesel, of any percentage, does not kill injection pumps or fuel systems -- unless they are truly old, non-viton lines, pre-1995. So basically everything built in the past 15 years should be B100 OK. B20 is the most common blend and it will not result in any fuel line issues, but the EPA-mandated clean diesel emissions scrubbers may or may not play well with blends above 5 to 10%. Its a pity, given the only ill effect of using B100 in my 2006 was a 4MPG loss in city (36MPG is still better than most Camry's), not much of a loss highway (I've gotten 47-49MPG many, many, many times on B100 on the highway as far as Des Monies, Austin, and Memphis), reduces the soot could by over 70%, and it smells of fried foods (not a grease trap). Other than making tailgaters hungry, biodiesel has little downside when one considers that it's being made from algae, hemp, wasted vegetable oils (including tobacco seed oil), and animal fats. Of course, like petrodiesel, it freezes, but using a mixure of different types in different climates would result in a diversified fuel system that meets the needs of the local environment to which it is used. IE, Hawaii and Florida and SoCal can get away with pig or chicken fat biodiesel with some additives as they never get cold enough for it to fully congeal, Minnesota and other northern points will have to use a 70/30 blend of bio to petrol, and use more tollerable feedstocks like canola or hemp oil. In between can be a blend of all these biodiesels for summer use. CO2 drops, NOx increases but can be remedied with a NOx trap (standard on 2007-later clean diesels), etc etc.
Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel. 15ppm sulfur (down from 550 enacted in the 90s, down from 15,000PPM in the 80s, and god only knows what it was before then).
we have a diesel jeep liberty (one of 11,250 made). It gets about 400 miles in the city (21.05), and a minimum of 550 miles on 19 gallons (28.94MPG) on the highway. The V6, with the same towing power and options, gets at best 18 on the highway. Please tell me how our diesel is more polluting when it uses less toxic fuel from the get go? You also totally neglect the capability of diesel engines to use vegetable oils as a fuel, which has a lower CO2 footprint all the way around.
The fact is that those diesel eninges are CLEANER in industrial application than a gas engine would be. If a 6-banger diesel SEMI truck (most all are only inline 6's, while my dad's truck is 8 cyl and I've seen 10 and 12-cyl cars) gets 10 to 12MPG pulling the loads they pull, I imagine you'd need a 10 to 12 cyl gas engine with double the fuel tank to get about 6MPG doing the same job. How is that more efficient or cleaner? It's not, thats the answer.
My diesel Jeep gets 22 city and 28 highway -- it meets the 2016 criteria. My VW TDI (Diesel) gets 40 city and 49 highway -- again, meets the criteria. This isn't rocket science, it's just rolling out 100 year old technology that was doomed by design thanks to GM in the 80s. The dude from the UK's post is a prime example of how backwater we Americans are. Hell a Honda Civic HX (last sold in 2004) can get 42MPG on regular gasoline.... However I do find the 5000LB towing and 4x4 on the Jeep impressive since it *still* gets better economy than most 4-banger Saturns. It's not exactly aerodynamic, either. Slap a Urea-injection clean diesel exhaust (from MB or Audi) and you've got yourself a car that meets emissions and economy requirements AND uses a new additive that needs to be replaced every xxx,xxx miles -- means more service money for the company -- all the while we reduce the number of gallons we burn in a year, reduce import, beef up renewable (biodiesel, hello, it works in any diesel engine) from algae and AG waste products and suddendly we have our large SUVs that seat 8 (even when only 1 person drives it around 80% of the time) with all that towing power but you fill it up LESS. A LOT less. 4.7L Jeep - 350 to 360 highway miles per 19 gallons. 2.8L Diesel 550 to 575 miles per 19 gallons. Even when Diesel was 50 cents more per gallon, if I'm going an additional 200 miles on the same number of gallons, you can't tell me that the diesel costs more to operate when I spent $47.50 for 550mi and to achieve that in the gas jeep you'd spend $38 for the first tank and another $22 to match the extra mileage I got out of my first tank for a total of $60. I saved $12.50 and 22 minutes of time on the road by not having to refuel the vehicle. Does it make sense now?
Understood, and I love the idea of your highway. I don't understand why all cell phones and ipods aren't self-charging, I mean all calculators can do it with simple solar cells...
I want to keep this short, so here goes. Polls can be wrong, as are the EPA's finding. Go look up the 2005 Jeep Liberty/Cherokee 4x4. Look at the Diesel and 3.7L automatic (the two most sold vehicles of that year). Look at the details page and take note of the user-reported fuel economy. Do the same for the 2006 VW Jetta manual Diesel vs 2.0T and 2.5L inline 5. The diesel blows them away both in EPA rating and real world reporting. Take a look at the number of people reporting data.
Oil: you're wasting money and resources with a 3k interval. I've done several oil analysis over the years to convince myself that 10k is safe. Blackstone told me with one 2002 car that it could go to 13,500 miles between oil changes. Use synthetic, change it 5k to 7k miles, and it will be OK. To think otherwise is really undermining the advances made in oil technology, and feeding the planned obsolescence system.
Unusual workforce you say. I thought so too, until I found out how many people drive into DC from NC, VA, MD, ME, and other surrounding states. It's actually more common than you think. Polls are not always accurate and it depends on whom you ask. Survey people who work in one country but own a home in another and suddenly the facts change. I also can cite the entire state of mississippi. Most people who live there don't have a job in state, it is out of state. 60-120mi one way is normal, every day, expected.
You see more diesel VWs and Trucks for sale down there for a reason: Economy. My drama teacher in high school lives in Grenada MS and drove to Memphis TN (germantown, really) daily to teach. We asked how he afforded this one day. He said his diesel VW Beetle gets 900 miles out of a tank, so he fills it up every week just about -- at the time it cost less than $30. We were astonished by this. He said his whole family has driven diesel cars since 1977 when the VW Rabbit diesel came out and have never found anything comparable to replace it. I asked him about the Prius and he said it was too expensive for anyone who needs that kind of economy because you're looking at 100k miles in under 2.5 years of driving, and at the rate of battery replacements, he'd be throwing $4k into the car every 3-4 years, along with the timing belt (at the time the Prius had both normal car maintenance and the battery upkeep, new models are chain based and supposedly only need battery work). Made sense to me, this was in 2001 when the Prius was being launched. The Honda Insight was already for sale.
Lastly, it does take all types. The problem is that my reaction showcases the type of response a lot of people will give to EVs. Expensive. Costly. Short rage. Not worth it. It's the same reasons (sans the short range) that was given to the 80s diesels; many are still on the road yes, but they didn't come with automatics, the GM models sent pistons through the hood of the car around 50k miles if you were unlucky enough, and they all had a lot of issues. Good idea executed poorly, but what was the result? The 35MPG Caddy's, Delta 88's and 60MPG Ford Escorts (1984 model, see here: http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/1845/4701/29612350015_large.jpg) all went to the wayside and we went back to being happy with 25MPG... a standard still accepted today.
So forgive me if I think a 200mi range is laughable, I feel it is. I work and know people who put 200+mi on a car every day, and while it would be possible to make it work by plugging in while at work, I think we both agree that a large portion of Americans would forget to do it and thus be left stranded at some point in time. It might only happen once (its like running a diesel out, you tend to only do it once), but it would happen. Growing pains I suppose, but I think now to 2020, w
I'd like to keep the parrots in public conversation going, I sent an email to the listed address on your Homepage (via the link in your profile).
Do you use a feather tether harness for your Amazon or have you handled him since birth? We just started using a harness and it's been better than I'd expected. I have a more profound respect for YouTube, the videos on parrots and training have been quite helpful....
I'm really not up to debate this anymore. I don't trust the EPA. If you look at the User Input on fueleconomy the TDI New Beetle (pre-2005 models) have 40/50 economy, Motorweek's Review of the 99 model (engine used from 1998 to 2004, then replaced with a 100HP Pump Duse motor, which was in use in all models except the 05.5-06 Jetta which used slightly different 100HP Motor, the 05 Passat was the only model with a 2.0L Diesel). They also noted it emits less CO2 while deliverying 27% more torque than the 2.0L Beetle (the gas engine available until 2005, when the 2.5L came out). The 2.5L is a hog, it gets really bad economy -- thats what we traded (in Jetta form) for the Jeep, and the Jeep has out performed it since. The EPA has historically rated Diesels poorly; they gave the award for "most fuel efficient car ever" to the 99 Honda Insight at 63MPG highway EXCEPT that the 1984 EPA Rating for the Ford Escort Diesel was 68 Highway (see this ad: http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/1845/4701/29612350015_large.jpg)... the 84 data is no longer available, and they don't always have the data for all vehicles that came with a diesel for every year. Also they don't list economy for large trucks (F250 or bigger), which is where you *really* see the difference that a diesel makes.
I will say you're as passionate about your vehicle options as I am. I think the two have a place in the US, because we live two very different (but yet similar) lifestyles. I'd really like to see a diesel-electric hybrid, and I hope that VW is solid on their commitment of a Hybrid TDI Jetta in the 2012 timeframe, one made at the new USA/Chattanooga TN plant.
Also, as far as the wiring and HOA restrictions, we have no such protections where I live. I've seen people's solar installs be removed after lengthy court battles, and the HOA wins. Feel blessed where you are but do realize that what is working for you simply can't work for others (due to political limitation, no due to science or anything of legit fact). I've enjoyed this debate with you, but I still hold out that no electric in the next 15 years is going to be able to replace my Diesels. I hope to be proven wrong, but I feel we overlook usable technologies in the quest to find better ones, and yet keep using the same old broken crap.
Then that's fantastic. I'd hope they'd have a battery backup option for partially cloudy days, or days when it does indeed rain.
Par the link:
"And so the project principals are looking to city officials at each of the intermediate stations, seven in total, and asking them to put up $5,000 toward the $35,000 study cost."
I'm not convinced that solar panels alone can power the train at all times, but I really do like the idea. The concept of having electric cars with a 50mi range for rent at the stations is also novel, reminds me of ZipCar and TriMet's MAX Lightrail in Portland Oregon.
I don't know what type of car you had prior but I change my oil every 10,000 miles at $50 a change or so, the air filter is every 20k miles at $10 each and the pollen filter for the AC system (cabin filter, not all cars have these) is every 40,000 miles. My car can run off fuel made from algae, they only need sunlight and waste water to make fuel, so yes technically my car can run off the sun. For that matter I could get away with using pure water and a veggie-oil based non-synthetic motor oil that is available if I want to have green bling. Instead I look at what is practical. Your 200mi EV fails in comfort and economy to my Diesel, especially if the goal is take 5 200LB adults with luggage 250 miles with no more than 20 minute brakes every 100mi.
At the current price of 2.19 I could drive to and from the pool about 4 times on a single gallon, 2.19/4=0.54, so yes technically I can.
I drive about 26mi to work, most of the people I work with drive better than 50mi in a single direction, some pushing 80mi. EVs will not work for *any* of us, and *most* of us couldn't afford the $500k-1M homes near the office, so we had no choice but to buy away from the industrial park. Around these parts (and by these parts I mean NC, I'm from TN and my family is from MS which has no jobs except to drive to TN and work -- 60 to 120mi one way a day is normal for most Missippians), an EV is nothing but a waste of time, a diesel makes far more sense.
When the EV can go 600 to 700 miles (thats a week's worth of driving for my mother, who lives in MS) then you've got something. Until then, your largest demographic that bought SUVs (southerns) will be looking at anything that isn't powered by an electric motor to suit their driving needs.
Did I mention that I've actively lobbies for a commuter rail, and have been shot down because people don't want to ride with the "riff raff" that use public transportation? Now you see why I've switched to lobbying for diesel and domestic plant-based biofuels, notably fuel that comes from non-consumable plants like hemp or algae (but algae isn't really a plant).
An African grey parrot, we're probably going to be adopting another one. He's between 15 and 17 in age.
First up you're wrong regarding it takes more to refine diesel, par the DOE: http://www.eia.doe.gov/kids/energyfacts/sources/non-renewable/oil.html#How%20used
Based on this you can't get a single product from a barrel, while your logic is semi-correct in that if we only refined diesel we'd need to import more oil, we can easily offset that by using any number of renewable crops -- several of which have no human consumption traits, or are not frequently used as food oil -- soy and RME come to mind, followed by Jathropa and Hemp.
Secondly, the Biodiesel Board has something to say regarding emissions with just a 20% blend of renewable fuel in the mainstream: http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/fuelfactsheets/emissions.PDF
I don't really care how you slice it, when you look at a 2.0L Gasoline VW beetle that gets 28/32 and the 1.9L Diesel Beetle that gets 44/51, it's hard to say that the lightly higher NOx content is going to be critical given that the Diesel goes 220mi farther *on the same number of gallons* as the gasoline vehicle.
I'd love to take a look at your papers. You also dismiss condo/townhome owners, Home Owner's Associations that can regulate such things as solar panels or other electrical modifications to your home (such extremes do exist), and the fact that no builder is going to start incorporating it into the home building process as "main stream." On the one hand, I liked the idea of converting our old 89 Golf into an EV, but then I realized that I'd have to throw a 50ft cord from the balcony to the parking spot in front of the building -- assuming I could land that spot every time I come home -- to charge it, and likely deal with vandalism/stolen power in the process (happened before when I was charging the battery on the same car). The end result was, it's just not worth the effort and the savings aren't worthwhile with a midsized sedan getting 41+ economy on a regular basis off more to less vegetable oil.
In 50 years, I fully expect us to be on something electric. For the next 10-15 I would like to see us moving towards diesel powered technologies to drop the number of gallons of oil we use, for the average person a diesel option is $2k more a Hybrid is $4k extra and a pure EV is around $15k more as an option. If You can get a 4x4 SUV with 30 to 40MPG economy with a clean exhaust for $22k, why get the electric for $35k? The problem is neither are truly available right now. I drive more highway than city, and until EVs make sense in that kind of environment (and that applies to about 90% of southern car owners), they won't be popular.
One last thought, your concept is that you "never have to go" to the "inconvenience" of the gas station could hurt those small store owners. Fuel has never been profitable, the soda pop and candy bar were. While I have my own issues with such foods, I think that it's a bad idea to keep isolating society (the iPod's done enough damage) by never forcing social interaction with rituals like refueling your vehicle or grocery shopping.
Asus is also learning and fixing. The 1.6 version of the OS shipping on the 1000 model is really a vast improvement over the 7 and 9" Eee lineup.
Why not show him?
Its not that I don't like Ubuntu, I actually really LOVE the Linux setup on the Asus and have no reason to want to change it. The Xandros linux has worked fine with the 3 Java apps I use, Timidity++ and GIMP/Gwled/OpenOffice were preinstalled or available as a download from the EEE Website... it was as point and click as it could possibly get. I cherish that in a computer.
I don't know whats wrong with your setup, but I have a 10" Asus EeePC with the v1.6 Xandros Linux for Asus OEM systems. I've plugged in several Epson inkjet, HP laser (granted not a Lexmark but I'll try). Each time the system prompts with a box that says "A printer is attached, do you want to set it up?" with "yes" and "no" buttons. I click "yes" and it starts a customized wizard that walks you though selecting the brand and model, granted if the model isn't listed (like the Brother HL-2140 we have), you need to google "Brother hl2140 linux" and see ath, guess what, it uses the HL2060 driver -- which is listed in the wizard -- and off you go. This involves thinking, something that the automatic transmission latte sipping american public can't do. i'm entirely ready to move out of this country.
We bought a diesel jeep (SUV) to haul around our bird cage 3-4 times a year to various events and shows, it beat the gas CAR it replaced by 8MPG highway but the city was about the same (22-23mpg). We also live in a flood zone, and it has flooded, so the 4x4 is something of a comfort. Perhaps I'm not the right one to ask such a question, I've never rented a vehicle to move something in my life (grew up with more pickups than cars). Perhaps you should spend $400 on Craigslist and get a beat up old truck, something old enough to not need inspection and put cheap tags on it, and save yourself the $50 rental fee? Or, make friends with trucks?
Your analogy wasn't altered. I work with people who really would make use of a printer like that *at home* because these folks are workaholics who can't read 300pg PDFs on the computer screen and have to print them out.
I think my overall point is that people have rather low expectations for their equipment. It's not unreasonable to ask a vehicle to give you a 600 to 700 mile range, even if you never need to utilize it. You said it yourself the idea is to go to the fill up station less. If you drive 10,000mi/year and get 600mi out of 14 gallons you're looking at fueling up a total of 16 times for the year. With the EV you have to plug it in every 200mi or so, that works out to 50 charges. My number is lower, but the cost may favor the electric (hard to say, I don't think it would where I live but our rates are a little higher I think). The nice thing about either technology is that you can DIY the fuel source for them (biodiesel or solar, or if your really into it pedal power). Diesel, however, is more rapidly deployable in the short term with near immediate payoff in terms of reducing emissions *and* reducing the number of imported gallons of oil.
Everyone does not need a 4-door sedan, but most people want them (not me I wish I had a hatch, took what I could get out of necessity). The EVs are trying to appeal to those who don't want the standard, this car is suitable for the masses and manages the overall goal: reduces the amount of fossil fuel we use, while giving the option of using renewable.
EVs will face the issue of is it bad power or clean power, you just took oil out of the equation. I don't think coal fire-charged EVs are any cleaner (in any way) than my Diesel running NC-derrived biodiesel.
I do. When we went to iowa we stopped every 2 hours, i hated it, but we made the stops and still got over 700 miles between fill ups. I don't need to stop. I don't drink a ton of water (8oz every hour), a single 24-pack of bottled water and 2 boxes of granola bars are all I need to drive to texas -- and back -- with making no more than 6 stops along the way (including fuel). Stops detract from your time on the road. If your in a hurry, as in you've got to be in St Louis by 5pm or else, stops are your enemy. I make the drive down I-40 from the heart of carolina to the mississippi river three times a year. In every gas car I've been in, including a Prius, keeping up with traffic, we stop for fuel at lease once if not three times (the prius stopped only once), and it takes about 20 minutes per stop before your back on the road. Result? 15 to 17 hour drive. I do it in less than 12 and a half with my diesel, every time. I'm just as ragged and tired without the stops and running a slower speed as I am making the stops, the difference is I save money and time (2 to 5 hours worth). My question to you is, why do you think this is weird? I'm far, far from the "weird" types out there who shift into neutral and shut off their engines while driving. As for the 50 pounds of paper mark, if you worked with the folks I did -- that would be something to talk about. They print up to 2000 sheets PER day, a ream of paper weighs 5 ponds, a 50-pound capable feeder would mean we'd only add paper to the unit twice a week... yes there are people out there that would utilize such a device. my point is, on a bad day i get 550 miles out of the car in the city. everyone else is fortunate to break 300, and 450 if you've got a hybrid. i'm blowing them all away on a car with 100-year old technology. I'm not the crazy one here.
I work for myself, and have a lot of clients in a lot of states. Plus the average miles driven is around 20k -- nearly double the "average 10k" where I live. Cars like these are really common. The question is why DON'T people expect these kinds of ranges out of a 15-gallon tank. Welcome to 1977... my dad's Golf does better than this car, 50 city and 60 highway... and our neighbors 84 Ford Escort was EPA rated at 68. We think that 28 is how acceptable. I think not. Electrics have to beat this for me to support them. They never will. Also most of Europe is driving diesels. If anything I'm more worldly in my expectations of consumer products.
You've got some sense! When I tell folks I have a 600-700 mile range in my car they about freak out. Love my diesel. Love it more on biodiesel.
So you can go 700 miles highway like my diesel? With 4 250LB adults, another 100LB in luggage with the AC on? If so you've made a feat. If not you're car is useless to me.
I see your point. But I require a 600-700 mile range. No electric can do that. I'll stick to my (bio)diesel.