Whoa, that's scary, even more so because the German ministry of justice might want to get a similar law passed. Industry pressure and lobbying eroding our fair-use rights. It's ridiculous =(
Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following:
(1) to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords;
So, does that mean that a US citizen is not allowed to make copies of CDs or DVDs (even his own), or record a TV, radio or internet radio transmission? You're reproducing copyrighted work in these cases, too, dontcha? Serious question.
You must have the soul of a lawyer, the way you squirm to make reality try to fit your desires. Huh? Are we talking about laws or ethics/morals? If the former, of course I must examine the law, if the latter, see my explanation #2, above. Law != justice.
As you now have found out that the site has no license to operate outside of Russia Actually, I haven't found that out. There has been no legal judgment yet. Not in Germany, not in Russia, not in the USA AFAIK. Please quote a relevant declaration of a judge or attorney.
That nobody has been accused of downloading music doesn't make it right or legal. Doesn't make it right: see my explanation #2, above. Also: law != justice. Doesn't make it legal: true. But it doesn't make it illegal either. If you cannot cite a law that actually states the illegality of buying from allofmp3.com, I call it spreading FUD.
Concerning your point #2, as you already said yourself, copyright infringement != stealing. We really don't need to talk about that again.
I'd seriously be interested in those UK and US laws. If you have the texts, please quote the relevant passages. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a law against downloading in the UK, but I'd be surprised if there's one in the US.
If you know that by downloading a work that falls under copyright terms which disallow copying, that you are actually making a copy of that work in the process of downloading it, then you ARE INFRINGING COPYRIGHT and you ARE BREAKING A LAW.
Hi Phil, you wrote:[...] so you were participating in copyright violation. The very fact that you are on Slashdot wipes away any claim of ignorance that you could make, especially with a fairly respectable/.id like that.
It seems to me that you're talking about two different things here. 1. Law (copyright violation) 2. Morals (ignorance)
1. You are right, I'm not from Russia. I'm from Germany. I did not violate any laws. I can't violate Russian laws in Germany, so they don't matter to me. I also didn't violate German law, because it says that I can copy music "soweit nicht zur Vervielfältigung eine offensichtlich rechtswidrig hergestellte Vorlage verwendet wird", which roughly means "if one does not use an obviously illegal copy for duplication". If I buy music from one of the biggest commercial internet music sellers worldwide, I don't use an obviously illegal copy.
In the USA, on the other hand, IIRC nobody has been accused for downloading music, only for sharing (i.e. distributing). So all the US users should be safe, too. IANAL, but if there is no sentential judgment that says otherwise, I'm taking all other statements as spreading FUD.
2. I'm buying CDs all the time. I use allofmp3.com, internet radios and tracks copied from friends for evaluating music and finding new bands that I like. If I like a band, I will then buy their album (new if they are not signed by a RIAA label, used on ebay or amazon marketplace if they are with the RIAA). It's also possible that I didn't get you right and you didn't try to talk about morals at all - if so, please ignore my reasoning #2.
Democracy is only welcome if it can be influenced by the megacorporations through money and lobby representatives. They don't really like it when the will of the citizens makes a difference, like in this case of continued opposition by the most of the european IT industry.
Set fire on them? I say, shoot back with: "We're really unhappy with Microsoft's plans to relocate Navision to the USA. We're also really unhappy about the cost and security holes of Windows. That's why we're thinking about switching all government offices to Linux."
Not really. He didn't say something like "If you vote against software patents, we will terminate those jobs." He said something along the lines of we're extremely unhappy that there are no software patents in Europe. We can't "secure our rights" properly here, so we just might have to relocate that company to the USA.
Gates said that he's displeased with the process of political decisions on software patents in the european union. In particular, he seems to be unhappy about the successful opposition by many european IT companies and software developers.
He further claims that Microsoft can secure their rights better in the USA.
I call BS on that: if Microsoft relocates Navision to the USA, they can patent there all they want, but guess what, their patents won't mean squat in Europe without the possibility to patent software in the EU.
Best comment I ever saw was an unused char array in some C code, initialised with all '0's, and the comment//here we insert some zeros to keep the code fluffy and airy
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Please, some of us are trying to have an intelligent discussion here.
A very useful tool for figuring out if an album was released by an RIAA label is RIAA Radar.
Whoa, that's scary, even more so because the German ministry of justice might want to get a similar law passed. Industry pressure and lobbying eroding our fair-use rights. It's ridiculous =(
Ok. What is the answer to the question then, is buying music from allofmp3.com a prima face infringement? What's your opinion?
Ah! So basically, it depends on whether a court would conclude if 106 or the fair-use rights are more important?
Thanks.
106. Exclusive rights in copyrighted works
Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following:
(1) to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords;
So, does that mean that a US citizen is not allowed to make copies of CDs or DVDs (even his own), or record a TV, radio or internet radio transmission? You're reproducing copyrighted work in these cases, too, dontcha? Serious question.
I will believe you if you can cite the relevant law. Seriously.
You must have the soul of a lawyer, the way you squirm to make reality try to fit your desires.
Huh? Are we talking about laws or ethics/morals? If the former, of course I must examine the law, if the latter, see my explanation #2, above. Law != justice.
As you now have found out that the site has no license to operate outside of Russia
Actually, I haven't found that out. There has been no legal judgment yet. Not in Germany, not in Russia, not in the USA AFAIK. Please quote a relevant declaration of a judge or attorney.
That nobody has been accused of downloading music doesn't make it right or legal.
Doesn't make it right: see my explanation #2, above. Also: law != justice.
Doesn't make it legal: true. But it doesn't make it illegal either. If you cannot cite a law that actually states the illegality of buying from allofmp3.com, I call it spreading FUD.
Concerning your point #2, as you already said yourself, copyright infringement != stealing. We really don't need to talk about that again.
I'd seriously be interested in those UK and US laws. If you have the texts, please quote the relevant passages. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a law against downloading in the UK, but I'd be surprised if there's one in the US.
THAT my friend depends on where you live.
Of course, you are right. I made generalizations. It's not illegal in Germany, USA and Canada AFAIK, and probably many other countries, too.
Hi Mr. Anonymous Coward,
If you know that by downloading a work that falls under copyright terms which disallow copying, that you are actually making a copy of that work in the process of downloading it, then you ARE INFRINGING COPYRIGHT and you ARE BREAKING A LAW.
Please cite the law. I'm still not afraid.
Hi Phil, /.id like that.
you wrote:[...] so you were participating in copyright violation. The very fact that you are on Slashdot wipes away any claim of ignorance that you could make, especially with a fairly respectable
It seems to me that you're talking about two different things here.
1. Law (copyright violation)
2. Morals (ignorance)
1. You are right, I'm not from Russia. I'm from Germany. I did not violate any laws. I can't violate Russian laws in Germany, so they don't matter to me. I also didn't violate German law, because it says that I can copy music "soweit nicht zur Vervielfältigung eine offensichtlich rechtswidrig hergestellte Vorlage verwendet wird", which roughly means "if one does not use an obviously illegal copy for duplication". If I buy music from one of the biggest commercial internet music sellers worldwide, I don't use an obviously illegal copy.
In the USA, on the other hand, IIRC nobody has been accused for downloading music, only for sharing (i.e. distributing). So all the US users should be safe, too. IANAL, but if there is no sentential judgment that says otherwise, I'm taking all other statements as spreading FUD.
2. I'm buying CDs all the time. I use allofmp3.com, internet radios and tracks copied from friends for evaluating music and finding new bands that I like. If I like a band, I will then buy their album (new if they are not signed by a RIAA label, used on ebay or amazon marketplace if they are with the RIAA). It's also possible that I didn't get you right and you didn't try to talk about morals at all - if so, please ignore my reasoning #2.
No, the real question is: Why are you afraid? Downloading music is never illegal.
Sharing copyrighted music is copyright infringement. Downloading music is not.
In addition, they are only investigating allofmp3.com. That does not mean that a judge will actually convict them of a crime.
I will continue to buy from them.
This year we'll also see a second edition of the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying Game by Green Ronin and Black Industries.
So I say, encourage the strip-mining of Mars (hell, better Mars than one's hometown, don't you think?).
You've never played Red Faction, didya?
Hey, does that mean I'm not a geek?
Democracy is only welcome if it can be influenced by the megacorporations through money and lobby representatives. They don't really like it when the will of the citizens makes a difference, like in this case of continued opposition by the most of the european IT industry.
You got it.
Set fire on them? I say, shoot back with: "We're really unhappy with Microsoft's plans to relocate Navision to the USA. We're also really unhappy about the cost and security holes of Windows. That's why we're thinking about switching all government offices to Linux."
Not really. He didn't say something like "If you vote against software patents, we will terminate those jobs." He said something along the lines of we're extremely unhappy that there are no software patents in Europe. We can't "secure our rights" properly here, so we just might have to relocate that company to the USA.
Political FUD.
Gates said that he's displeased with the process of political decisions on software patents in the european union. In particular, he seems to be unhappy about the successful opposition by many european IT companies and software developers.
He further claims that Microsoft can secure their rights better in the USA.
I call BS on that: if Microsoft relocates Navision to the USA, they can patent there all they want, but guess what, their patents won't mean squat in Europe without the possibility to patent software in the EU.
...from heise.de (in German).
Best comment I ever saw was an unused char array in some C code, initialised with all '0's, and the comment //here we insert some zeros to keep the code fluffy and airy
Google sez:
Unable to understand address Quo'nos. Please try another address.
If you don't like the terms, then you simply shouldn't purchase it.
We can agree on that.
But, copyright infringement is not theft according to the US Supreme Court. So please stop calling it theft.