Yes, but how far did you underestimate your GROSS and why did you not think to adjust your payment schedule during the year.
There was no payment schedule. It was a yearly fee required to be paid up front for having a business license in south-eastern VA. They asked how much we where going to gross at the start of each year, We made guesses, The first one was off, the following year's we improved our guesses based on our business history.
Businesses are SUPPOSED to do their taxes every quarter, you mean you didn't realize you under-estimated at any point before the final payment?
Once again, we are talking about a fee paid upfront based on nothing but speculation. There was no paying this fee in installments, it's an up front fee.
I run a business myself, in NC and the solution is really simple. ACCOUNTANT. If you do enough business that your taxes are hard then you really can afford to hire an accountant. They really aren't that expensive you when you realize how much they offload.
You didn't read what I wrote at all did you? We had a CPA, they are better than accountants because they are (C)ertified (P)ublic (A)ccountants.
Sure they are smaller but on an abstract level, where's the difference? Is there any?
Ummm I have no education in the question at hand but I believe solids are at a lower energy state for any given substance. Liquids have more energy and gasses have much more and thus are all bouncy and shit. I just totally fsked my explanation up in many different ways.. Maybe I should have googled "phase change" or something but that's a lot of work and I just wanted someone to give me the answer because I'm Cowboy Neal's half brother twice removed.
NOW STOP MAKING FUN OF ME DAMN IT.... I'm an American and I'll SUE your ass...
I think you missed what I was saying. You know, when you heat sand, it melts into a liquid. Reading this thread made me wonder about all the little rules that govern how liquids behave vs how solids behave and what happens in the in-between states and how that relates to this.
But never mind I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition this morning.
humanized Web, where our network of friends, colleagues, peers, and family is our primary source of information
I'm sorry but honestly I like cold logic.. This sounds like some sort of RIAA / Government control the flow of information justification and creeps me the hell out.
I donno sort of like this... "why do you need to look at books Timmy? Why not just ask grandpa about it? What do you have to hide from your dear old grandpa timmy?" Why don't you trust that we know best.
It just sounds creepy but maybe I just have less faith in my family's wisdom than most? Anyhow I really don't see a battle here... There is more than one way to skin a search request....
The company I work for ships software that uses OpenSSL, and the policy on Iran (and other countries on the "black list") is simple: if I receive an email from someone in Iran, I must immediately forward it to the corporate communications department
Hummm but I wonder what the chaps in the CC dept do?
Sorry I'd have to agree with the grand-parent as I busted out laughing when I saw weight equals falling faster espically since the first few post where all nerdy....
But here's a question. When does something changing from a liquid to a solid change models? Donno might be just as stupid as the above but I think it's interesting that sand can exist in several different states including a liquid.
You make zero sense. Keep in mind that few of us readers own a business in Virginia.
When we applied for a business license in Norfolk, VA in 2001 they asked us how much money we where going to gross in the coming year on our new business venture. We told them $X but we really had no idea. We grossed something like $5X although we didn't NET jack shit.
Five years later we where audited by the state. They wanted us to drag out all of our paper receipts for the last five years and all this other "we're going to ass ream you" shit.
We told them they would need to talk to our CPA. The CPA faxed them a few reports and magically we no longer had to waste months of our time to gather up all of the paper information they where asking for.
Apparently if you start a business and you gross more than you tell them up front you are going to be fined. I don't think there was anyway to go back and amend the information but if there was I expected the CPA would have known about it.
I hope this makes more sense, if not then I don't fucking know what to tell you because I didn't understand why I was being charged Two Grand for GROSSING more money yet not NETING more money. The difference in the tax fee was something like $100 and the rest was a very large fine.
From what I was told by the CPA a lot of small businesses who try and do the right things when it comes to paying taxes are subjected to fishing exercises by the state once they have been in business at least five years. It's much easier to take money from someone who has been trying to pay all the proper taxes and thus filing all those forms than never filing a damn thing to start with.
This relates to sales tax very vaguely but I figured I'd post since it seemed like phun at the time after a few beers and all..
OK then, riddle me this: what is the sales tax rate for any address in the US?
I've had to deal with sales tax in both Virginia and North Carolina. The truth of the mater is they don't want you to know what the current tax rate is because they make more money when they audit your small business and apply fines a couple years later.
In Virginia my business was fined for not anticipating our GROSS income correctly. We GROSSED more money one year and because of that we had to pay the tax difference plus a couple thousand in fines. I'm just happy we had a CPA because the tax people where screaming murder until I said they would need to talk with our CPA then they where much nicer...
Small business owner's really can't win by playing by the rules...
$2 Million for 24 songs? Well OK if you wanna fight dirty then the time has come for the Bot.NET lords of Cobol to unite!
Step 1. Take existing bot.net code and add $p2pflavor$ modded to start in das hidden mode. Step 2. Have it set to automatically download mp3s, kiddie porn, $threatoftheweek$ via RSS feed from the $piratebay$. Step 3. Distribute to the pleebs via normal bot.net methods, all of hem damn methods. Step 4. Pleebs now automatically download da goods and become evil seed servers. Step 5. Watch RIAA sue all of the earths pleebs in a massive stoke off. Step 6. Watch all governments outlaw the internet. Step 7. Watch all of the earths pleebs get really pissed off. Step 8. Watch pleebs with guns run a muck in the great pleeb revolt of 2012. Step 9. Self invented new defense, My system had that damn virus your Honor. Step 0. No Profit for dem guys!
I now leave you to move into my underground lair so I can work on those sharks with freaking lasers baby!
Interesting question: If you catch a GPL virus that is only being distributed as binary, are you guilty for copyright violation when it redistributes itself?
Ahhhh SNAP! It's time for the Kazza and bit-torrent MP3 virus!!!
Step 1. Take existing bot.net code and add utorrent with registry settings to start in hidden mode. Step 2. Have it set to automatically download mp3's via rss or something. Step 3. Distribute to the pleebs. Step 4. Pleebs become seed servers. Step 5. Watch RIAA sue all the pleebs. Step 6. Watch everyone in the world get really pissed off. Step 7. New defense, My system had that damn virus. Step 8. No Profit for dem guys!
Step 9. Move to underground lair and work on those sharks with freaking lasers baby! BRILLIANT
What, exactly, will the benefit of not NATing be to 95% of users? I'm not talking about the bandwidth hogs running bit-torrent or the geeks here running exotic setups. I'm talking about the vast majority that don't run servers.
Continued use of the internet after address space is exhausted. Using hulu, youtube, myspace music and videos, etc, etc all at the same time on their 4 different computers without having to build a Linux NAT box strong enough to handle the load. You act as like normal people aren't becoming bandwidth hogs... Remember 14.4Kbps back in the BBS days? it was pretty damn fast on those ANSI menus... Have you looked at the size of a normal website lately? Just think about it.. Websites use to be maybe a Meg or two now they are HUGE! Add to that the trend of moving to streaming music and video over the internet to whole families and things only getting larger and larger every day. I will concede that they all could just go out and buy new more powerful linksys routes but hey I personally like to correct problems and IPv4 address space is a problem and rolling it out doesn't have to affect anybody unless we wait until it's too late.
Unlike me, most end-users will probably hook up their IPV4 machines with IPV4 software to a converter box.
They could, or they could also handle it in software with a program raper APP or just a fake network driver that acts as a NAT layer that converts IPv4 requests to v6 and back. I'd rather have bloat code installed on their computer's than on mine...
IPv6 was designed specifically so you don't have to get rid of all your IPv4 gear.
UUUGGGHHH... I KNOW!... It was designed so we don't have to shut the internet off for a year to move everything over to IP6....
NAT is an integral part of IPv6. An IPv6 prefix can be large enough to encompass a block of addresses as large as the entire IPv4 address space.
It's not integral if you don't need IP4 anymore but yes like I said IP6 is wonderful and you can roll it out without shutting down the whole inter-web which is why it should already be deployed some 10 years after being created and approved as the next protocol.
Getting an ID made using valid traceable data, that too CAN be done, but it's extremely expensive
Did you not read my post or something? it's not hard to get real information, that's part of the whole botnet identity theft thing that is going on now. And what cops are you talking about? They are all in the chat rooms looking for child molesters.
I think its funny how you think you know what you're talking about.
Same here?
First off, people use PAT, not NAT, very VERY few people use NAT. NAT maps an IP address on one side to an IP address on the otherside. Each internal address uses an external address exclusively.
please... if the Linux man pages for ipchains and iptables call it NAT then I'm going to call it NAT as I pay my respects to 'the man' regardless of what vocabulary words are on the A+ Cert now days.
Second, IPv6 will do nothing to make routing easier, the statement in and of itself is retarded and shows a complete lack of practical understanding of why routing is the mess it is.
I disagree, firstly while slightly unrelated to what you are talking about a prime example of the problem is P2P programs. Have you tried to download a torrent on a Linksys Router? Yeah try downloading a few at the same time and watch the router thrash because it can't keep up with all the connections and then go monkey with the torrent program options and set your max connections to something pathetic like 500. What's the point of future 100Mbit internet if you can't download anything faster than 10Mbit because your NAT tables get clogged.
facilitate the most efficient topology did they? No, the didn't, it evolved over years. Connections come and go, address assignments come and go or get reassigned, thats just the way of the Internet, it changes.
ummmmm well yeah.. they sorta did.. now days you have bits of every Class A,B and sometimes C networks all over the place. (not that there really is such a thing now days) Well that's all fine and dandy if you are a company and that's how you wanna setup your address space. It's not good for the internet backbone that it has to be done because there are too few addresses.
It deals with the fact that we're low on addresses by giving us a lot more. It gives us some ways to auto-assign addresses and blocks based on where they are connected. What it does not deal with is that you are in Dallas, and your connections for auto-assignment are in new york and san francisco. It doesn't deal with what happens when you move that subnet to new york.
Well ok then what is your idea for correcting this? How does this issue have anything to do with the fact we need more address space?
Please do not try to educate people about IPv6 or Internet routing/protocols in the future, you're missing some fairly key knowledge that just means you're making it so other people are wrong as well.
yes your right.. we should tell everyone that IPv6 is bad and to stay away from it because it's not perfect and computers must be perfect. Maybe we can start charging more for internet access because there aren't enough addresses for everyone to be online at 5pm in CA and thus the internet can be just like GAS is today.... BRILLIANT!
NAT and PAT may be "hackish" but I for one am really glad that they have gotten such widespread use. For the vast majority of non-techie Internet users, a simple D-Link, Linksys, etc... firewall/router with its fairly transparent PATing is a nice bit of security that they have even if they don't understand it.
Yes it does add a tinny amount of security but it wasn't really designed to do that. It was designed to get around the fact that there aren't enough addresses to go around. Maybe we as IT professionals should educate people about the need to secure their systems. Maybe just maybe if people saw their brand new DELL,HP,Compaq,etc computer get taken down 10 seconds after they connect it to a direct internet connection after buying it they will learn why it's really important to install those annoying updates that come out every few weeks. Right now I have family member's who actively try and ignore those little messages that pop up at the bottom of their WinXP boxes. That isn't really a good thing and a firewall doesn't protect you once you start googling for offshore casino's and porn. And I think we all know that most non-geek computers are infected with some kind of spyware so your security device isn't really doing that great of a job.
Also, the ISPs used to be really weird about home networks, but over time, they've changed their attitudes. If they fully implemented IPv6 to the point where every device could have its own publicly routable address, I'd be really worried about the security, PLUS I bet you that Comcast and the like would start CHARGING BY THE IP.
Yes they really where and you are right they will try and do everything they can to make a buck but the extreme amount of addresses provided is going to make it hard to justify a charge. I remember back o 10+ years ago when I had COX Cable and they charged 3 bucks for an IP. Now I can't get an IP address unless I pay the $400 for business service {Charter}. So basically the Firewall/routers you speak of have kind of screwed me because I'd really like to have a couple of real IP's.
I'll stick to my router and its Port Address Translation even if they switch over to IPv6.
PLEASE no you won't... That's like saying you are going to keep your 386sx system because your scared of the new 486 processors and don't want the extra processing power.
Us self-described techie types aren't afraid of change per-se, it's just that an awful lot of us have been burned by living on the bleeding edge, so when it comes to something that's important (to us) to keep up and running in a stable manner, we tend to fall back to "tried and true".
What bleeding edge? IPv6 has been out for 10 years! that isn't bleeding edge man. Maybe you're just worried about having to learn some new-er stuff? Maybe have to ask some questions that make you look foolish? eh?
I bet us IPv6 refuseniks who also happen to be Windows users / admins are also the types to NEVER trust an MS service pack until we've tried it out on one guina pig machine and until its been out in public long enough to see if it's a shitstorm in a service pack's clothing.
Really? cause last time I checked 99% of service packs for windows are just all the security updates that have come out over a year or so. If you are saying that every time Microsoft releases a security patch you break out a Guinea pig machine than I really feel sorry for you. MS Security patches come out weeks or months after the bad guys figure out an exploit so the rest of us wait maybe a week on service pack and no time on patches. Everything works just fine 98% of the time except for maybe a program or two and as we tend to do regular backups if something does go horribly wrong then we restore from our backup! Plus most updates have an uninstall anyhow.
It's funny how all of you are complaining so much about this. IPv6 is a required evil for the internet to keep going and it will simplify things greatly and should speed up things in general too. That is if and when they get rid of the IPv4 hardware...
I've never seen a bunch of self described computer geeks whining so much about something that will simplify routing and get rid of NAT which is a truely horrid hack.
Come on guys, you know you are going to have to deal with problems no mater what happens in computer land?! Might as well deal with a problem that will make the internet routing make sense again and it's not like it will need to be done again in your life time.
They are also governed by law as to what they can and cannot do, and they cannot do your AT&T room, nor would this ISP ever do a setup like that without being ordered by a court of law.
Yes well that's the sad part as it's illegal here too but that somehow didn't stop it from happening. It's also illegal here in the US to torture people and hold them indefently without trial but that didn't really seem to stop it from happening ether.
and there's still the matter of laws, governing what they can and cannot do. the AT&T room & NSA data mining would be against the Danish 'Grundlov' - our version of the US Constitution.
Sadly, The AT&T Room is against the US Constitution as well but apparently the law is only really for the pleebs... And you can be sure that any of your packets that pass threw any US controlled territory are being monitored so be sure to route around us and make sure not to use any SAT links that we can describable because my government loves to push around other governments and you don't wanna give them any ammo. That whole pirate bay thing.. you know all the 'laws' not being followed in the initial raid on their servers? yeah that was the US government pushing your neighboring country around but you probably already know that.
Can't say that i'm too proud of the Filters, but the danish IT crowd do fight it as best we can. btw... we don't do waffles, we do 'Æbleskiver' (sorta waffle shaped like a bun, apple-flavored, a treat with powdered sugar and strawberry-jam!)
My bad about the waffles, you'll have to forgive me as I'm the product of the US Education System and was never taught anything other than US History. Over and over again year after year. Not really that much fun or even educational...
I'd move my ass over that way except I see the same sort of crap going on on your side of the water as is going on over here. People over there seem to be slightly more educated than here, which is causing some problems, but I'm sure some drastic cuts in education spending and a few terrorist explosions will get things rolling and then we can all be one big happy family living under the protection of big brother...
But hey, I'm dressed in tin-foil and all so just keep believing that the law is the law and it can never happen in your wonderful land of Æbleskivers.
He didn't have employees... They where all independent contractors. They where responsible for declaring their own income not him. The IRS HATES when you declare people as independent contractors and will sue you into jail even though it's perfectly legal...
Dude, you are giving run-of-the-mill politicians WAY too much credit for Machiavellian intelligence.
As I told your friend, who also used the phrase 'Machiavellian intelligence' a few messages back. Politicians have to be smart enough to tell people what they want to hear else they don't get elected. I'm not saying they are extremely bright people, just that they know how to lie and get others to do what they want. I think a city council meeting is far far removed from national government but hey it's not my country we are talking about it's yours!
I should be proud of my country.. They are forcing yours to enact draconian laws to protect our intellectual property rights so our big businesses can rape your people. You just keep doing what your told and the US will protect and provide for you. At least until you are all broke...
actually, most senior techs here handle these requests whenever they come in. we're all cleared to handle sensitive data.
What I was talking about wouldn't be classified as sensitive it would be secret and probably would run on it's own machine but maybe your right and your elected officials really are as stupid as you say they are. But then that really says something about Denmark doesn't it?
Well, I'm Danish, i follow the news and specifically politics regarding IT. You know, being a normal, concerned citizen in the country i reside in
So you support DNS filtering? and you support your Politicians even though they are stupid? On the one hand it sounds like you are proud of your country and on the other hand it sounds like you think your government is incompetent and thus hate your country. You should like the Danish version of an American redneck.
oh, and groups like http://www.sslug.dk/ often do pop-quiz our politicians about certain issues, usually before elections
As I told your friend, who also used the phase 'Machiavellian surveillance' a few messages down, politicians tell people what they want to hear not the truth. If they told the truth they would never get elected in the first place.
but this is Denmark we're talking about.
Yes.. Yes it is... land of the free, waffles and internet censorship... To protect the children!
Denmark's biggest Internet service provider TDC A/S launched a DNS-based child pornography filter on 18 October 2005 in cooperation with the state police department and Save the Children, a charity organization. Since then, all major providers have joined and as of May 2006, 98% of the Danish Internet users are restricted by the filter.[47] The filter caused some controversy in March 2006, when a legal sex site named Bizar.dk was caught in the filter, sparking discussion about the reliability, accuracy and credibility of the filter.[48] Also, as of 18 October 2005, TDC A/S has blocked access to AllOfMP3.com, a popular MP3 download site, through DNS filtering.[49] 4 February 2008 a Danish court has ordered the Danish ISP Tele2 to shutdown access to the filesharing site thepiratebay.org for all its Danish users.[50]
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dude, if you melt sand, it's not liquid sand, it's liquid whatever sand is made of. silicon and stuff.
DUDE!!! if you melt water it's not liquid water anymore it's steam... Did I really have to say "If you melt the sand into liquid glass"?
You should probably know what happens when you melt sand... I think they teach it in first grade...
Yes, but how far did you underestimate your GROSS and why did you not think to adjust your payment schedule during the year.
There was no payment schedule. It was a yearly fee required to be paid up front for having a business license in south-eastern VA. They asked how much we where going to gross at the start of each year, We made guesses, The first one was off, the following year's we improved our guesses based on our business history.
Businesses are SUPPOSED to do their taxes every quarter, you mean you didn't realize you under-estimated at any point before the final payment?
Once again, we are talking about a fee paid upfront based on nothing but speculation. There was no paying this fee in installments, it's an up front fee.
I run a business myself, in NC and the solution is really simple. ACCOUNTANT. If you do enough business that your taxes are hard then you really can afford to hire an accountant. They really aren't that expensive you when you realize how much they offload.
You didn't read what I wrote at all did you? We had a CPA, they are better than accountants because they are (C)ertified (P)ublic (A)ccountants.
m. Outside of a vacuum, a larger object encounters more friction and accelerates more slowly.
Damnit.. Didn't I watch a video of a guy on the moon test this with a golf ball and a feather and they both hit the (moon) ground at the same time?
Fuck this... I'm going back to bed...
Sure they are smaller but on an abstract level, where's the difference? Is there any?
Ummm I have no education in the question at hand but I believe solids are at a lower energy state for any given substance. Liquids have more energy and gasses have much more and thus are all bouncy and shit. I just totally fsked my explanation up in many different ways.. Maybe I should have googled "phase change" or something but that's a lot of work and I just wanted someone to give me the answer because I'm Cowboy Neal's half brother twice removed.
NOW STOP MAKING FUN OF ME DAMN IT.... I'm an American and I'll SUE your ass...
What? NO..
I think you missed what I was saying. You know, when you heat sand, it melts into a liquid. Reading this thread made me wonder about all the little rules that govern how liquids behave vs how solids behave and what happens in the in-between states and how that relates to this.
But never mind I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition this morning.
humanized Web, where our network of friends, colleagues, peers, and family is our primary source of information
I'm sorry but honestly I like cold logic.. This sounds like some sort of RIAA / Government control the flow of information justification and creeps me the hell out.
I donno sort of like this...
"why do you need to look at books Timmy? Why not just ask grandpa about it? What do you have to hide from your dear old grandpa timmy?" Why don't you trust that we know best.
It just sounds creepy but maybe I just have less faith in my family's wisdom than most? Anyhow I really don't see a battle here... There is more than one way to skin a search request....
The company I work for ships software that uses OpenSSL, and the policy on Iran (and other countries on the "black list") is simple: if I receive an email from someone in Iran, I must immediately forward it to the corporate communications department
Hummm but I wonder what the chaps in the CC dept do?
.. CITATION REQUESTED ..
Whilst he does explain it ass-backward,
Sorry I'd have to agree with the grand-parent as I busted out laughing when I saw weight equals falling faster espically since the first few post where all nerdy....
But here's a question. When does something changing from a liquid to a solid change models? Donno might be just as stupid as the above but I think it's interesting that sand can exist in several different states including a liquid.
He can't write clearly in English. Why do you expect anything meaningful out of him?
Someone's got mod envy.... But it's OK... I still love you...
You make zero sense. Keep in mind that few of us readers own a business in Virginia.
When we applied for a business license in Norfolk, VA in 2001 they asked us how much money we where going to gross in the coming year on our new business venture. We told them $X but we really had no idea. We grossed something like $5X although we didn't NET jack shit.
Five years later we where audited by the state. They wanted us to drag out all of our paper receipts for the last five years and all this other "we're going to ass ream you" shit.
We told them they would need to talk to our CPA. The CPA faxed them a few reports and magically we no longer had to waste months of our time to gather up all of the paper information they where asking for.
Apparently if you start a business and you gross more than you tell them up front you are going to be fined. I don't think there was anyway to go back and amend the information but if there was I expected the CPA would have known about it.
I hope this makes more sense, if not then I don't fucking know what to tell you because I didn't understand why I was being charged Two Grand for GROSSING more money yet not NETING more money. The difference in the tax fee was something like $100 and the rest was a very large fine.
From what I was told by the CPA a lot of small businesses who try and do the right things when it comes to paying taxes are subjected to fishing exercises by the state once they have been in business at least five years. It's much easier to take money from someone who has been trying to pay all the proper taxes and thus filing all those forms than never filing a damn thing to start with.
This relates to sales tax very vaguely but I figured I'd post since it seemed like phun at the time after a few beers and all..
OK then, riddle me this: what is the sales tax rate for any address in the US?
I've had to deal with sales tax in both Virginia and North Carolina. The truth of the mater is they don't want you to know what the current tax rate is because they make more money when they audit your small business and apply fines a couple years later.
In Virginia my business was fined for not anticipating our GROSS income correctly. We GROSSED more money one year and because of that we had to pay the tax difference plus a couple thousand in fines. I'm just happy we had a CPA because the tax people where screaming murder until I said they would need to talk with our CPA then they where much nicer...
Small business owner's really can't win by playing by the rules...
will be a bass box and 1000w amp....
You should probably fit your house with a carbon monoxide detector. You seem to be delirious.
With the current state of the US legal system and economy maybe I prefer to remain delirious...
$2 Million for 24 songs? Well OK if you wanna fight dirty then the time has come for the Bot.NET lords of Cobol to unite!
Step 1. Take existing bot.net code and add $p2pflavor$ modded to start in das hidden mode.
Step 2. Have it set to automatically download mp3s, kiddie porn, $threatoftheweek$ via RSS feed from the $piratebay$.
Step 3. Distribute to the pleebs via normal bot.net methods, all of hem damn methods.
Step 4. Pleebs now automatically download da goods and become evil seed servers.
Step 5. Watch RIAA sue all of the earths pleebs in a massive stoke off.
Step 6. Watch all governments outlaw the internet.
Step 7. Watch all of the earths pleebs get really pissed off.
Step 8. Watch pleebs with guns run a muck in the great pleeb revolt of 2012.
Step 9. Self invented new defense, My system had that damn virus your Honor.
Step 0. No Profit for dem guys!
I now leave you to move into my underground lair so I can work on those sharks with freaking lasers baby!
Interesting question: If you catch a GPL virus that is only being distributed as binary, are you guilty for copyright violation when it redistributes itself?
Ahhhh SNAP! It's time for the Kazza and bit-torrent MP3 virus!!!
Step 1. Take existing bot.net code and add utorrent with registry settings to start in hidden mode.
Step 2. Have it set to automatically download mp3's via rss or something.
Step 3. Distribute to the pleebs.
Step 4. Pleebs become seed servers.
Step 5. Watch RIAA sue all the pleebs.
Step 6. Watch everyone in the world get really pissed off.
Step 7. New defense, My system had that damn virus.
Step 8. No Profit for dem guys!
Step 9. Move to underground lair and work on those sharks with freaking lasers baby! BRILLIANT
What, exactly, will the benefit of not NATing be to 95% of users? I'm not talking about the bandwidth hogs running bit-torrent or the geeks here running exotic setups. I'm talking about the vast majority that don't run servers.
Continued use of the internet after address space is exhausted. Using hulu, youtube, myspace music and videos, etc, etc all at the same time on their 4 different computers without having to build a Linux NAT box strong enough to handle the load. You act as like normal people aren't becoming bandwidth hogs... Remember 14.4Kbps back in the BBS days? it was pretty damn fast on those ANSI menus... Have you looked at the size of a normal website lately? Just think about it.. Websites use to be maybe a Meg or two now they are HUGE! Add to that the trend of moving to streaming music and video over the internet to whole families and things only getting larger and larger every day. I will concede that they all could just go out and buy new more powerful linksys routes but hey I personally like to correct problems and IPv4 address space is a problem and rolling it out doesn't have to affect anybody unless we wait until it's too late.
Unlike me, most end-users will probably hook up their IPV4 machines with IPV4 software to a converter box.
They could, or they could also handle it in software with a program raper APP or just a fake network driver that acts as a NAT layer that converts IPv4 requests to v6 and back. I'd rather have bloat code installed on their computer's than on mine...
IPv6 was designed specifically so you don't have to get rid of all your IPv4 gear.
UUUGGGHHH... I KNOW! ... It was designed so we don't have to shut the internet off for a year to move everything over to IP6....
NAT is an integral part of IPv6. An IPv6 prefix can be large enough to encompass a block of addresses as large as the entire IPv4 address space.
It's not integral if you don't need IP4 anymore but yes like I said IP6 is wonderful and you can roll it out without shutting down the whole inter-web which is why it should already be deployed some 10 years after being created and approved as the next protocol.
Getting an ID made using valid traceable data, that too CAN be done, but it's extremely expensive
Did you not read my post or something? it's not hard to get real information, that's part of the whole botnet identity theft thing that is going on now. And what cops are you talking about? They are all in the chat rooms looking for child molesters.
I think its funny how you think you know what you're talking about.
Same here?
First off, people use PAT, not NAT, very VERY few people use NAT. NAT maps an IP address on one side to an IP address on the otherside. Each internal address uses an external address exclusively.
please... if the Linux man pages for ipchains and iptables call it NAT then I'm going to call it NAT as I pay my respects to 'the man' regardless of what vocabulary words are on the A+ Cert now days.
Second, IPv6 will do nothing to make routing easier, the statement in and of itself is retarded and shows a complete lack of practical understanding of why routing is the mess it is.
I disagree, firstly while slightly unrelated to what you are talking about a prime example of the problem is P2P programs. Have you tried to download a torrent on a Linksys Router? Yeah try downloading a few at the same time and watch the router thrash because it can't keep up with all the connections and then go monkey with the torrent program options and set your max connections to something pathetic like 500. What's the point of future 100Mbit internet if you can't download anything faster than 10Mbit because your NAT tables get clogged.
facilitate the most efficient topology did they? No, the didn't, it evolved over years. Connections come and go, address assignments come and go or get reassigned, thats just the way of the Internet, it changes.
ummmmm well yeah.. they sorta did.. now days you have bits of every Class A,B and sometimes C networks all over the place. (not that there really is such a thing now days) Well that's all fine and dandy if you are a company and that's how you wanna setup your address space. It's not good for the internet backbone that it has to be done because there are too few addresses.
It deals with the fact that we're low on addresses by giving us a lot more. It gives us some ways to auto-assign addresses and blocks based on where they are connected. What it does not deal with is that you are in Dallas, and your connections for auto-assignment are in new york and san francisco. It doesn't deal with what happens when you move that subnet to new york.
Well ok then what is your idea for correcting this? How does this issue have anything to do with the fact we need more address space?
Please do not try to educate people about IPv6 or Internet routing/protocols in the future, you're missing some fairly key knowledge that just means you're making it so other people are wrong as well.
yes your right.. we should tell everyone that IPv6 is bad and to stay away from it because it's not perfect and computers must be perfect. Maybe we can start charging more for internet access because there aren't enough addresses for everyone to be online at 5pm in CA and thus the internet can be just like GAS is today.... BRILLIANT!
NAT and PAT may be "hackish" but I for one am really glad that they have gotten such widespread use. For the vast majority of non-techie Internet users, a simple D-Link, Linksys, etc... firewall/router with its fairly transparent PATing is a nice bit of security that they have even if they don't understand it.
Yes it does add a tinny amount of security but it wasn't really designed to do that. It was designed to get around the fact that there aren't enough addresses to go around. Maybe we as IT professionals should educate people about the need to secure their systems. Maybe just maybe if people saw their brand new DELL,HP,Compaq,etc computer get taken down 10 seconds after they connect it to a direct internet connection after buying it they will learn why it's really important to install those annoying updates that come out every few weeks. Right now I have family member's who actively try and ignore those little messages that pop up at the bottom of their WinXP boxes. That isn't really a good thing and a firewall doesn't protect you once you start googling for offshore casino's and porn. And I think we all know that most non-geek computers are infected with some kind of spyware so your security device isn't really doing that great of a job.
Also, the ISPs used to be really weird about home networks, but over time, they've changed their attitudes. If they fully implemented IPv6 to the point where every device could have its own publicly routable address, I'd be really worried about the security, PLUS I bet you that Comcast and the like would start CHARGING BY THE IP.
Yes they really where and you are right they will try and do everything they can to make a buck but the extreme amount of addresses provided is going to make it hard to justify a charge. I remember back o 10+ years ago when I had COX Cable and they charged 3 bucks for an IP. Now I can't get an IP address unless I pay the $400 for business service {Charter}. So basically the Firewall/routers you speak of have kind of screwed me because I'd really like to have a couple of real IP's.
I'll stick to my router and its Port Address Translation even if they switch over to IPv6.
PLEASE no you won't... That's like saying you are going to keep your 386sx system because your scared of the new 486 processors and don't want the extra processing power.
Us self-described techie types aren't afraid of change per-se, it's just that an awful lot of us have been burned by living on the bleeding edge, so when it comes to something that's important (to us) to keep up and running in a stable manner, we tend to fall back to "tried and true".
What bleeding edge? IPv6 has been out for 10 years! that isn't bleeding edge man. Maybe you're just worried about having to learn some new-er stuff? Maybe have to ask some questions that make you look foolish? eh?
I bet us IPv6 refuseniks who also happen to be Windows users / admins are also the types to NEVER trust an MS service pack until we've tried it out on one guina pig machine and until its been out in public long enough to see if it's a shitstorm in a service pack's clothing.
Really? cause last time I checked 99% of service packs for windows are just all the security updates that have come out over a year or so. If you are saying that every time Microsoft releases a security patch you break out a Guinea pig machine than I really feel sorry for you. MS Security patches come out weeks or months after the bad guys figure out an exploit so the rest of us wait maybe a week on service pack and no time on patches. Everything works just fine 98% of the time except for maybe a program or two and as we tend to do regular backups if something does go horribly wrong then we restore from our backup! Plus most updates have an uninstall anyhow.
It's funny how all of you are complaining so much about this. IPv6 is a required evil for the internet to keep going and it will simplify things greatly and should speed up things in general too. That is if and when they get rid of the IPv4 hardware...
I've never seen a bunch of self described computer geeks whining so much about something that will simplify routing and get rid of NAT which is a truely horrid hack.
Come on guys, you know you are going to have to deal with problems no mater what happens in computer land?! Might as well deal with a problem that will make the internet routing make sense again and it's not like it will need to be done again in your life time.
They are also governed by law as to what they can and cannot do, and they cannot do your AT&T room, nor would this ISP ever do a setup like that without being ordered by a court of law.
Yes well that's the sad part as it's illegal here too but that somehow didn't stop it from happening. It's also illegal here in the US to torture people and hold them indefently without trial but that didn't really seem to stop it from happening ether.
and there's still the matter of laws, governing what they can and cannot do. the AT&T room & NSA data mining would be against the Danish 'Grundlov' - our version of the US Constitution.
Sadly, The AT&T Room is against the US Constitution as well but apparently the law is only really for the pleebs... And you can be sure that any of your packets that pass threw any US controlled territory are being monitored so be sure to route around us and make sure not to use any SAT links that we can describable because my government loves to push around other governments and you don't wanna give them any ammo. That whole pirate bay thing.. you know all the 'laws' not being followed in the initial raid on their servers? yeah that was the US government pushing your neighboring country around but you probably already know that.
Can't say that i'm too proud of the Filters, but the danish IT crowd do fight it as best we can. btw... we don't do waffles, we do 'Æbleskiver' (sorta waffle shaped like a bun, apple-flavored, a treat with powdered sugar and strawberry-jam!)
My bad about the waffles, you'll have to forgive me as I'm the product of the US Education System and was never taught anything other than US History. Over and over again year after year. Not really that much fun or even educational...
I'd move my ass over that way except I see the same sort of crap going on on your side of the water as is going on over here. People over there seem to be slightly more educated than here, which is causing some problems, but I'm sure some drastic cuts in education spending and a few terrorist explosions will get things rolling and then we can all be one big happy family living under the protection of big brother...
But hey, I'm dressed in tin-foil and all so just keep believing that the law is the law and it can never happen in your wonderful land of Æbleskivers.
withhold taxes from the employees pay
He didn't have employees... They where all independent contractors. They where responsible for declaring their own income not him. The IRS HATES when you declare people as independent contractors and will sue you into jail even though it's perfectly legal...
Dude, you are giving run-of-the-mill politicians WAY too much credit for Machiavellian intelligence.
As I told your friend, who also used the phrase 'Machiavellian intelligence' a few messages back. Politicians have to be smart enough to tell people what they want to hear else they don't get elected. I'm not saying they are extremely bright people, just that they know how to lie and get others to do what they want. I think a city council meeting is far far removed from national government but hey it's not my country we are talking about it's yours!
I should be proud of my country.. They are forcing yours to enact draconian laws to protect our intellectual property rights so our big businesses can rape your people. You just keep doing what your told and the US will protect and provide for you. At least until you are all broke...
actually, most senior techs here handle these requests whenever they come in. we're all cleared to handle sensitive data.
What I was talking about wouldn't be classified as sensitive it would be secret and probably would run on it's own machine but maybe your right and your elected officials really are as stupid as you say they are. But then that really says something about Denmark doesn't it?
Well, I'm Danish, i follow the news and specifically politics regarding IT. You know, being a normal, concerned citizen in the country i reside in
So you support DNS filtering? and you support your Politicians even though they are stupid? On the one hand it sounds like you are proud of your country and on the other hand it sounds like you think your government is incompetent and thus hate your country. You should like the Danish version of an American redneck.
oh, and groups like http://www.sslug.dk/ often do pop-quiz our politicians about certain issues, usually before elections
As I told your friend, who also used the phase 'Machiavellian surveillance' a few messages down, politicians tell people what they want to hear not the truth. If they told the truth they would never get elected in the first place.
but this is Denmark we're talking about.
Yes.. Yes it is... land of the free, waffles and internet censorship... To protect the children!
Denmark's biggest Internet service provider TDC A/S launched a DNS-based child pornography filter on 18 October 2005 in cooperation with the state police department and Save the Children, a charity organization. Since then, all major providers have joined and as of May 2006, 98% of the Danish Internet users are restricted by the filter.[47] The filter caused some controversy in March 2006, when a legal sex site named Bizar.dk was caught in the filter, sparking discussion about the reliability, accuracy and credibility of the filter.[48] Also, as of 18 October 2005, TDC A/S has blocked access to AllOfMP3.com, a popular MP3 download site, through DNS filtering.[49] 4 February 2008 a Danish court has ordered the Danish ISP Tele2 to shutdown access to the filesharing site thepiratebay.org for all its Danish users.[50]