... of grammar and syntax, this statement it's become clear that the Linux desktop has all but surpassed proprietary alternatives says that KDE and Gnome hasn't surpassed the propriety alternatives. And since I use 3 out of the 4 daily (MacOS X, Windows and KDE), I really agree with that.
That's not what he meant, of course, but I want to know what he's been smoking and how can I get some?
The whole thrust is "we're not as dysfunctional as we used to be so we're better." Not. Delude yourself as you may, it ain't a Mac and not in the same league as The Mac Experience.
Assuming that your trojan is running as a user in the sudoers file...and that's a big assumption. Most OS X boxes will have been installed with default settings. Most OS X boxes will be used by only one person. Most of these people will be running as a user in the admin group, since that's the type of user that is created during the installation process. Users in the admin group can sudo to root.
So, the assumption that the trojan will run as the default user created during install, which is in the admin group and can sudo things to UID 0, is completely reasonable. Heck it wouldn't even qualify as "small", let along "big".
You're absolutely right, at least regarding bullets 1, 3, and 4, and that negates what I typed--but not what I didn't (yeah, too much of a hurry). Typing "sudo bash" isn't going to automatically give you a root shell; you still have to authenticate against the members of admin group (as defined in sudoers for sudo). So unless your trojan has cracked the user's password or sniffed* it, it ain't getting that root shell.
*And I'd be interested to know how a user-level process could put itself in the position to intercept keystrokes (I honestly don't know).
True it is more valuable. But what I was (trying to?) saying before they can get out of my system, they have to get in it. And that OS X has more protective mechanisms than WIndows (and linux, for that matter because it's harder to get a root shell when you don't have root enabled).
'sudo bash'
The root account isn't "disabled", just logins for it. It makes getting root privileges about 0.00001x more disfficult.
Assuming that your trojan is running as a user in the sudoers file...and that's a big assumption.
Yeah, there's no admin to watch over them/us. What's your point?
You seemed to miss the point. As a Unix box it is more valuable that a Windows box. Even with only user level privelages there are a wide range of tools available to cause mischief. You are erroneously focusing on what the attacker does to your system. That is not the real problem. The real problem is what they use your system for. Port scanning other systems, participating in DOS attacks, etc.
True it is more valuable. But what I was (trying to?) saying before they can get out of my system, they have to get in it. And that OS X has more protective mechanisms than WIndows (and linux, for that matter because it's harder to get a root shell when you don't have root enabled).
What kind of OS X user would be caught dead using such ancient, PC-originated technology (and I use that term loosely) as an MP3
Dunno if you were serious or being a troll, but one answer is me! Other than at 128k, Apple/Dolby's AAC has a way to go to catch up to the quality of a LAME-encoded VBR MP3. My highest quality sources are all ripped that way; the quality is distinguishable at ~160k even over my computer speakers (granted, they're Harmon Kardons, but still).
One virus or Trojan every three years? I can stand that.
Can you understand that past performance does not indicate future performance?
Also your sample size is questionable. Classic Mac OS' history is irrelevant to Mac OS X. Mac OS X is a far more interesting and potentially lucrative target. It combines a highly capable Unix environment (home turf/holy grail for hackers) with a usually unsophisticated (wrt security) users who have no admin to watch over them. This is only the beginning, get used to that.
OS X has been out for three years. This is the first trojan/virus (giving this the benefit of the doubt). Ergo, 1 every 3 years.
Yeah, there's no admin to watch over them/us. What's your point? The system will protect the user as much as it can (have to authenticate to install/write to system areas, or create sockets on privileged ports). It's a bit more secure than Windows where a user needs a nanny standing over her slapping her wrist and saying "don't do that" or "don't open that". If it does become a target, it's more hardened. It's not like Windows saying "take me, big boy."
...people could be more constructive if you could qualify what "problems" you mean. Network usage? Runt packets? Bad NIC flooding the network? Infiltration of Win2k3?
Err, a flat "regressive" tax is a contradiction. A tax can be flat (all taxed at the same percentage; example, making 100k and paying 20% same as everyone else), progressive (you make more you pay a higher percentage; example, making 100k and paying 28% where the guy making 40k pays 15%) which is what the US has in place now); or regressive, where you make more you pay a lesser percentage (example, making 100k and paying 12% while someone who makes 40k pays 18 %).
How is a flat tax regressive? Just because something's not progressive doesn't make it regressive.
music == guitars? Maybe you need to broaden your horizons ever so slightly...
That's just one (major) facet of the overall suckiness to me.
Re the previous poster, that was more the obligatory dig (you know, on slashdot one has an obligation to bust on MS, SCO and Clear Channel) than anything else. The only radio I listen to is news and sports. The radio choices for music in Washington DC span the gamut from horrible to "there oughta be a law."
Yeah, there's Internet radio, but nothing I've heard is worth the effort. Yep. Catch-22 there.
...bites, from what I've heard. I can count on one hand how many CDs I have that were published this millennium. I'm sure there's lots of good stuff buried out there, but Clear Channel won't let me near them.
Plus, very few people even know how to play a guitar anymore (Joe Bonamassa being a big exception). I didn't see a "it sucks" cause in the article...
I think both of you guys need to go back and show me where I said ONLY American products,eg no imports. As the one guy so cogently pointed out, you can't avoid imported products. The point is, if Citibank says they're shipping 5000 jobs to India, I'm going to say fuck Citibank. If IBM does it, I'm going to say fuck IBM and so on til I have no alternatives left.
There's a big difference between imports and selling out...this is the WalMart'ing of America.
My family was big in the automakers, a 3 generation UAW family decimated by ford and GM whoring out assembly and manufacturing to mexico and other countries.. no love for those companies that destroyed towns os they can chase the almightly dollar
I'm waiting for the first company to make the claim "We're an American company using all American workers and keeping our money and jobs in America." Bet they'd clean up. They'd get my business and a hell of a lot of others like me.
In the interim, I just patronize smaller businesses that are all-American (local credit union instead of giant bank, drive a Ford with 90% domestic content, etc).
This is just like what Phil Zimmerman, then NAI, and then PGP Corporation did with Pretty Good Privacy. They'd publish their source code for peer audit, but you definitely weren't allowed to do anything with besides audit the source and compare the resultant binaries. It was NOT open source. I don't have any problems with that, or with the election software not being open source.
...is to have the text component of a multi-part HTML email contain totally innocuous text whilst the HTML component has the actual spam. I don't think it's too effective (the spam far outweighs the ham in my Bayesian corpus), but I think it's an interesting trick that could pollute the creation of a corpus over time.
Slashdot Mirror
...in other words this isn't news.
... of grammar and syntax, this statement it's become clear that the Linux desktop has all but surpassed proprietary alternatives says that KDE and Gnome hasn't surpassed the propriety alternatives. And since I use 3 out of the 4 daily (MacOS X, Windows and KDE), I really agree with that.
That's not what he meant, of course, but I want to know what he's been smoking and how can I get some?
The whole thrust is "we're not as dysfunctional as we used to be so we're better." Not. Delude yourself as you may, it ain't a Mac and not in the same league as The Mac Experience.
If I'd have previewed AND tested, I'd have put in the the correct URL.
...hmm, wonder if they'll let Simson Garfinkel in on the ground floor. :-)
Sure, just call 867 5309.
Jenny's your daughter? Wow...;-)
Assuming that your trojan is running as a user in the sudoers file...and that's a big assumption.
Most OS X boxes will have been installed with default settings.
Most OS X boxes will be used by only one person.
Most of these people will be running as a user in the admin group, since that's the type of user that is created during the installation process.
Users in the admin group can sudo to root.
So, the assumption that the trojan will run as the default user created during install, which is in the admin group and can sudo things to UID 0, is completely reasonable. Heck it wouldn't even qualify as "small", let along "big".
You're absolutely right, at least regarding bullets 1, 3, and 4, and that negates what I typed--but not what I didn't (yeah, too much of a hurry). Typing "sudo bash" isn't going to automatically give you a root shell; you still have to authenticate against the members of admin group (as defined in sudoers for sudo). So unless your trojan has cracked the user's password or sniffed* it, it ain't getting that root shell.
*And I'd be interested to know how a user-level process could put itself in the position to intercept keystrokes (I honestly don't know).
...that one abrogates some privacy rights when committing a crime (suicide is....) in a public place?
True it is more valuable. But what I was (trying to?) saying before they can get out of my system, they have to get in it. And that OS X has more protective mechanisms than WIndows (and linux, for that matter because it's harder to get a root shell when you don't have root enabled).
'sudo bash'
The root account isn't "disabled", just logins for it. It makes getting root privileges about 0.00001x more disfficult.
Assuming that your trojan is running as a user in the sudoers file...and that's a big assumption.
Yeah, there's no admin to watch over them/us. What's your point?
You seemed to miss the point. As a Unix box it is more valuable that a Windows box. Even with only user level privelages there are a wide range of tools available to cause mischief. You are erroneously focusing on what the attacker does to your system. That is not the real problem. The real problem is what they use your system for. Port scanning other systems, participating in DOS attacks, etc.
True it is more valuable. But what I was (trying to?) saying before they can get out of my system, they have to get in it. And that OS X has more protective mechanisms than WIndows (and linux, for that matter because it's harder to get a root shell when you don't have root enabled).
Not seroius and not a troll. A little of both, actually; I like to call it "humor."
This is slashdot: genuine humor's not allowed!
What kind of OS X user would be caught dead using such ancient, PC-originated technology (and I use that term loosely) as an MP3
Dunno if you were serious or being a troll, but one answer is me! Other than at 128k, Apple/Dolby's AAC has a way to go to catch up to the quality of a LAME-encoded VBR MP3. My highest quality sources are all ripped that way; the quality is distinguishable at ~160k even over my computer speakers (granted, they're Harmon Kardons, but still).
One virus or Trojan every three years? I can stand that.
Can you understand that past performance does not indicate future performance?
Also your sample size is questionable. Classic Mac OS' history is irrelevant to Mac OS X. Mac OS X is a far more interesting and potentially lucrative target. It combines a highly capable Unix environment (home turf/holy grail for hackers) with a usually unsophisticated (wrt security) users who have no admin to watch over them. This is only the beginning, get used to that.
OS X has been out for three years. This is the first trojan/virus (giving this the benefit of the doubt). Ergo, 1 every 3 years.
Yeah, there's no admin to watch over them/us. What's your point? The system will protect the user as much as it can (have to authenticate to install/write to system areas, or create sockets on privileged ports). It's a bit more secure than Windows where a user needs a nanny standing over her slapping her wrist and saying "don't do that" or "don't open that". If it does become a target, it's more hardened. It's not like Windows saying "take me, big boy."
Yup. You hit it dead-on. Where's the best place to hide a tree? Or a needle? (The answer is not a haystack!)
...people could be more constructive if you could qualify what "problems" you mean. Network usage? Runt packets? Bad NIC flooding the network? Infiltration of Win2k3?
The big issue with a flat tax regressive tax
Err, a flat "regressive" tax is a contradiction. A tax can be flat (all taxed at the same percentage; example, making 100k and paying 20% same as everyone else), progressive (you make more you pay a higher percentage; example, making 100k and paying 28% where the guy making 40k pays 15%) which is what the US has in place now); or regressive, where you make more you pay a lesser percentage (example, making 100k and paying 12% while someone who makes 40k pays 18 %).
How is a flat tax regressive? Just because something's not progressive doesn't make it regressive.
music == guitars? Maybe you need to broaden your horizons ever so slightly...
That's just one (major) facet of the overall suckiness to me.
Re the previous poster, that was more the obligatory dig (you know, on slashdot one has an obligation to bust on MS, SCO and Clear Channel) than anything else. The only radio I listen to is news and sports. The radio choices for music in Washington DC span the gamut from horrible to "there oughta be a law."
Yeah, there's Internet radio, but nothing I've heard is worth the effort. Yep. Catch-22 there.
...bites, from what I've heard. I can count on one hand how many CDs I have that were published this millennium. I'm sure there's lots of good stuff buried out there, but Clear Channel won't let me near them.
Plus, very few people even know how to play a guitar anymore (Joe Bonamassa being a big exception).
I didn't see a "it sucks" cause in the article...
Yeah, I'm geezing, I know....
I think both of you guys need to go back and show me where I said ONLY American products,eg no imports. As the one guy so cogently pointed out, you can't avoid imported products.
The point is, if Citibank says they're shipping 5000 jobs to India, I'm going to say fuck Citibank. If IBM does it, I'm going to say fuck IBM and so on til I have no alternatives left.
There's a big difference between imports and selling out...this is the WalMart'ing of America.
Oh yeah, to answer the rest of the diatribe, it's "do what you can."
My family was big in the automakers, a 3 generation UAW family decimated by ford and GM whoring out assembly and manufacturing to mexico and other countries.. no love for those companies that destroyed towns os they can chase the almightly dollar
And that's different from today how?
I'm waiting for the first company to make the claim "We're an American company using all American workers and keeping our money and jobs in America."
Bet they'd clean up. They'd get my business and a hell of a lot of others like me.
In the interim, I just patronize smaller businesses that are all-American (local credit union instead of giant bank, drive a Ford with 90% domestic content, etc).
This is just like what Phil Zimmerman, then NAI, and then PGP Corporation did with Pretty Good Privacy. They'd publish their source code for peer audit, but you definitely weren't allowed to do anything with besides audit the source and compare the resultant binaries. It was NOT open source.
I don't have any problems with that, or with the election software not being open source.
In the iPod article, I made the comment about "iPod now, garage door opener next."
Little did I know....
...is to have the text component of a multi-part HTML email contain totally innocuous text whilst the HTML component has the actual spam.
I don't think it's too effective (the spam far outweighs the ham in my Bayesian corpus), but I think it's an interesting trick that could pollute the creation of a corpus over time.
...if you have 20:20 hindsight.
:-)
And hindsight is what you didn't have the foresight to do.