No. We try this all the time. Americans dont want to move to Silicon Valley and move into a 800 sq feet apartment when they can live on a split level ranch house in the Souteast, midwest or Texas. They are only interested in moving to the valley to work at the hot startups and the hot technology where they can have an equity event and eventually be able to buy a house. For every one job working on a hot startup or framework there are 10 jobs writing code to put up a website to sell a gadget. These jobs are skilled jobs but for the skill needed people can lead a much better lifestyle outside Silicon Valley. Only those who dont have a choice (immigrants) will pick up these jobs hence the preponderance of H1Bs in these jobs in the valley.
You are sort of wrong about h1b being effective for 6 years. If they file for a green card, the h1b can stay here as long as the application takes. There is a wait of decades if you are Indian. So effectively you are wrong - these 65,000 a year, many stay for decades so the growth is exponentially high.
I dont buy that all these top companies cant find talent. I know of people who would move across the country to work for Microsoft or any big name and they are as good as most h1bs. Hell. Microsoft hires h1b to do clerking, meanwhile lay off us citizens first.
I bet most people commenting here are white or Asian dudes.
No one has commented on the EEOC. if they hire h1b, they can discriminate. They can hire a whole department that is one gender, one race, one religion. If they hired a department of all one kind of citizen, it would be evidence of bias for a discrimination case. When h1bs began in the 90s, the momentum of improving numbers of blacks and women ranked. But as dudes here, you dont even know the best argument against them.
When H1B started you started getting Alphas into Software. Earlier it had been a field for nerds but in India its the alphas who go into software (sports is just not big there). And the Alphas COMPETE. No longer was a software a touchy feely nerdish backwater where you could dump quota hires. And lots of Indian women work on H1s and lots of different religions too so no longer could you cry diversity. The entitlement narrative of whaa help me I am a minority or whaa help me I am a woman does not work too well when minorites of race, color and religion (Indians are all three) are competing and crushing it. All that is left is coming to Slashdot and whining.
Also what abt other professions like Electrical Engineering or Mechanical Engineering where the salaries are not as high. The H1 is not just a Software visa
Latino countries dont speak English. Europeans dont want to move to the US - the standard of living is better in Europe. Africa education system does not produce as many Engineers. if you want English speaking educated Engineers willing to move to the US in large numbers its India or bust. Enjoy this bonanza while it lasts. Eventually India will catch up and people will stop wanting to move for the money. Its not a pleasant experience moving countries.
They are probably OPT. After graduating STEM students get 3 years of work authorization to get some real industry experience. Many of these Masters students also have experience in India before their Masters so are hired for real work not internships. H1B is a bridge. The current wait for a greencard is 15 years for legal Indian immigrants (Its 0 if you just turn up at the southern border but educated Engineers usually have too much pride to use the Democrat Party route). The H1B is for 6 yrs and then if you have an approved GC and are waiting in queue for a quota slot to open up you get yearly extensions. If the US were to fix its immigration system and move to a points system instead of a quota system than the H1 would no longer be needed but the Democrats are holding legal immigrants hostage till they get amnesty for illegal immigrants.
H1Bs are used not just by software engineers. They are also used by fashion models and fashion models are paid a pittance. If you rank it by salary Melania Trump would never have been able to come to the US.
It pretty much is. Most other countries folks can come work in US on E2 and E3 treaty trader visas. The only countries which need the H1 are India and China. The rest may use it as the H1 allows you to get a greencard and settle while the E2 does not but its not the only choice for folks from say Bangladesh or Pakistan.
I have used many pieces of shit code written completely in the US. WHether code is shit or not is not a function of the location in which its written. Its a lot more complex than that.
So? Everything dies and the carbon comes back to atmosphere. What matters is how long the carbon is trapped out of the air. In tropical regions there are 3 to 4 crops a year so there is always carbon in crop form. During winter northern climates may not have standing crops but most trees also lose most leaves so forests are not doing any carbon uptake. So that just leaves the bodies of the trees. That is a small increase in heat during winter for decrease in heat during the entire year. I dont see a problem?
Agreements are always beneficial to both and detrimental to both. Its called Give and Take. traditionally America has been able to just take given its dominant role in the economy. Now other countries are strong enough to bargain where America has to give something too. Its a new feeling for the baby Boomer generation as they grew up in a time when everyone just had to listen to America. Its no longer that simple. The 50s-80s was an anomaly.
H1Bs already pay a 1000$ a month extra in tax. Its called FICA. They pay Social Security, Medicare, Disability taxes bt are not eligible to claim any of it. As soon as they lose their job or get disabled they have to leave the country. How do you think SS is still solvent? All the projections done in the 80s said SS would be insolvent by 2000 but the H1 boom of the 90s added billions to the SS fund with zero outflow or future liability.
Under Trump most transfer petitions are getting rejected so employees cannot move. Trump has been the best thing for Infosys, Wipro and TCS. Every visa rejection means the guy moves offshore and the job moes offshore too. On every offshore position they make 60% margin while an onsite position only makes them 20%. They only staff onsite because the client insists but if a guy has to move offshore the client has no choice. They dont want to hire and train a new guy when the guy moving offshore already has years of knowledge of the project. I wonder how much the Indian bodyshoppers paid to Trump's campaign.
Indentured Servitude is as American as you can get. Most of the white folks in America had their ancestors come over for 7 years of indentured servitude ( and of course the blacks came over in lifetime indentured servitude). its called paying your dues. h1Bs pay their dues before they get their green cards and hence appreciate American citizenship a lot more than those who are just born into it.
USCIS is using frivolous reasons to reject H1Bs. e.g. For a person who has been working a particular job for 5 years, has a Green card approved and getting yearly extensions waiting for a priority date, USCIS is suddenly saying please prove that you are qualified for the job and denying n extension. The guy moves back to Inida and starts working from the offshore office of the client. Over a period of 3-6 months, hiring in that project all moves to offshore and pretty much the project runs from offshore. Since Trump has become president I have seen this happen to 4 projects. About 5 Americans lost their jobs and had to move to other projects within the company. So thanks Trump.
If you got to pay an H1B twice a local hire than the local hire will ask for twice the local salary as else it would be discrimination in salary based on national origin and if the local hire is getting paid twice the salary than that becomes the base and so you have to now pay 4 times to an H1B and then again you are discriminating and so on....
See where I am going? Its basic logic and logic is very important in programming. And you wonder why the companies need to import coders if this is the result of the US education system?
Many US students are able to study for free because the foreigners are paying a full tuition (they sell their houses and ancestral properties to pay for an US education) Kick the foreign students out and you will see fewer scholarships for American students. It might not be so bad. Fewer college educated Americans would mean more Americans to do farm labor and we might not need workers from Central America to pick the fruit. The foreigners can just as well spend their tuition money in Europe.
You do realize that the only reason Social Security is still solvent is because of immigrants. H1Bs pay into social security but get nothing back. As soon as they lose their job they need to leave the country so they cannot claim unemployment. if they get sick and disabled and cant work they need to leave the country and cannot claim disability. To get retirement benefits you have to pay in for 10 years and H1Bs are for 6 years so they get to pay in but never get to get any benefits.
65K *6 = 390K. Where do you get your 800K numbers unless you are counting the folks whose Green cards are approved but not issued due to the racist rules in place saying that only the same no of cards can be issued to 1 Billion Indians and 1 Billion Chinese as issued to 100000 Croatians? Stop the racism in Immigration rules and you will se the H1B number fall to 390K. The spouses allowed to work are those whose green cards are approved but waiting for a priority date. For Indians and Chinese that can be 15-20 years. No educated woman wants to be a housewife for 15-20 years.
The problem with that is California and New York would get as many visas as needed while Austin, Raleigh or Denver companies would not get any. The alternate is to have a salary range depending on the local salaries and that is what is in place today
India should start the same system. For every H1B the companies should have to pay Indian govt 20000 USD for the cost of the education as most good colleges in India are govt funded. That would really make it clear who is doing who a favor in the H1B game.
The lesson to be learned here is that Software development as a industry needs to move to India. H1Bs are a band aid to try and force software development to stay in the USA but ultimately it needs to go. As a country gets richer people want to have easier and easier lives and send the difficult jobs away and software development is one of the few difficult jobs left in the US. Everything else pretty much does not need a brain or a work ethic.
USA being obscenely richer than all other countries was an anomaly due to WW2 destroying all other major economies while growing the US economy. As other economies have rebuilt and others have thrown off the shackles of colonialism and unleashed there potential a reversion to mean is occurring. there is nothing inherently special about America or Americans. Just because someone wins a lottery and becomes a billionaire doesnt mean their children will continue to be always richer than their neighbors. The neighbors will catch up eventually.
The only reason wages are higher in US is during the early 20th century USA was the Saudi Arabia of the world and made a shitload of money from exporting oil. Not every country is sitting on an oil bonanza. Countries will try to use their competitive advantages. One of them can be that their workers are willing to accept a lower lifestyle and hence lower wages
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No. We try this all the time. Americans dont want to move to Silicon Valley and move into a 800 sq feet apartment when they can live on a split level ranch house in the Souteast, midwest or Texas. They are only interested in moving to the valley to work at the hot startups and the hot technology where they can have an equity event and eventually be able to buy a house. For every one job working on a hot startup or framework there are 10 jobs writing code to put up a website to sell a gadget. These jobs are skilled jobs but for the skill needed people can lead a much better lifestyle outside Silicon Valley. Only those who dont have a choice (immigrants) will pick up these jobs hence the preponderance of H1Bs in these jobs in the valley.
You are sort of wrong about h1b being effective for 6 years. If they file for a green card, the h1b can stay here as long as the application takes. There is a wait of decades if you are Indian. So effectively you are wrong - these 65,000 a year, many stay for decades so the growth is exponentially high.
I dont buy that all these top companies cant find talent. I know of people who would move across the country to work for Microsoft or any big name and they are as good as most h1bs. Hell. Microsoft hires h1b to do clerking, meanwhile lay off us citizens first.
I bet most people commenting here are white or Asian dudes.
No one has commented on the EEOC. if they hire h1b, they can discriminate. They can hire a whole department that is one gender, one race, one religion. If they hired a department of all one kind of citizen, it would be evidence of bias for a discrimination case. When h1bs began in the 90s, the momentum of improving numbers of blacks and women ranked. But as dudes here, you dont even know the best argument against them.
When H1B started you started getting Alphas into Software. Earlier it had been a field for nerds but in India its the alphas who go into software (sports is just not big there). And the Alphas COMPETE. No longer was a software a touchy feely nerdish backwater where you could dump quota hires. And lots of Indian women work on H1s and lots of different religions too so no longer could you cry diversity. The entitlement narrative of whaa help me I am a minority or whaa help me I am a woman does not work too well when minorites of race, color and religion (Indians are all three) are competing and crushing it. All that is left is coming to Slashdot and whining.
Also what abt other professions like Electrical Engineering or Mechanical Engineering where the salaries are not as high. The H1 is not just a Software visa
Latino countries dont speak English. Europeans dont want to move to the US - the standard of living is better in Europe. Africa education system does not produce as many Engineers.
if you want English speaking educated Engineers willing to move to the US in large numbers its India or bust.
Enjoy this bonanza while it lasts. Eventually India will catch up and people will stop wanting to move for the money. Its not a pleasant experience moving countries.
They are probably OPT. After graduating STEM students get 3 years of work authorization to get some real industry experience. Many of these Masters students also have experience in India before their Masters so are hired for real work not internships.
H1B is a bridge. The current wait for a greencard is 15 years for legal Indian immigrants (Its 0 if you just turn up at the southern border but educated Engineers usually have too much pride to use the Democrat Party route). The H1B is for 6 yrs and then if you have an approved GC and are waiting in queue for a quota slot to open up you get yearly extensions.
If the US were to fix its immigration system and move to a points system instead of a quota system than the H1 would no longer be needed but the Democrats are holding legal immigrants hostage till they get amnesty for illegal immigrants.
H1Bs are used not just by software engineers. They are also used by fashion models and fashion models are paid a pittance. If you rank it by salary Melania Trump would never have been able to come to the US.
Just because you pay more for something does not make it better. American workers paid 3 times of what workers are paid in India can be just as shit.
It pretty much is. Most other countries folks can come work in US on E2 and E3 treaty trader visas. The only countries which need the H1 are India and China. The rest may use it as the H1 allows you to get a greencard and settle while the E2 does not but its not the only choice for folks from say Bangladesh or Pakistan.
I have used many pieces of shit code written completely in the US. WHether code is shit or not is not a function of the location in which its written. Its a lot more complex than that.
So? Everything dies and the carbon comes back to atmosphere. What matters is how long the carbon is trapped out of the air.
In tropical regions there are 3 to 4 crops a year so there is always carbon in crop form. During winter northern climates may not have standing crops but most trees also lose most leaves so forests are not doing any carbon uptake. So that just leaves the bodies of the trees. That is a small increase in heat during winter for decrease in heat during the entire year. I dont see a problem?
Agreements are always beneficial to both and detrimental to both. Its called Give and Take. traditionally America has been able to just take given its dominant role in the economy. Now other countries are strong enough to bargain where America has to give something too. Its a new feeling for the baby Boomer generation as they grew up in a time when everyone just had to listen to America. Its no longer that simple. The 50s-80s was an anomaly.
H1Bs already pay a 1000$ a month extra in tax. Its called FICA. They pay Social Security, Medicare, Disability taxes bt are not eligible to claim any of it. As soon as they lose their job or get disabled they have to leave the country. How do you think SS is still solvent? All the projections done in the 80s said SS would be insolvent by 2000 but the H1 boom of the 90s added billions to the SS fund with zero outflow or future liability.
Under Trump most transfer petitions are getting rejected so employees cannot move. Trump has been the best thing for Infosys, Wipro and TCS. Every visa rejection means the guy moves offshore and the job moes offshore too. On every offshore position they make 60% margin while an onsite position only makes them 20%. They only staff onsite because the client insists but if a guy has to move offshore the client has no choice. They dont want to hire and train a new guy when the guy moving offshore already has years of knowledge of the project.
I wonder how much the Indian bodyshoppers paid to Trump's campaign.
Indentured Servitude is as American as you can get. Most of the white folks in America had their ancestors come over for 7 years of indentured servitude ( and of course the blacks came over in lifetime indentured servitude). its called paying your dues. h1Bs pay their dues before they get their green cards and hence appreciate American citizenship a lot more than those who are just born into it.
USCIS is using frivolous reasons to reject H1Bs. e.g. For a person who has been working a particular job for 5 years, has a Green card approved and getting yearly extensions waiting for a priority date, USCIS is suddenly saying please prove that you are qualified for the job and denying n extension. The guy moves back to Inida and starts working from the offshore office of the client. Over a period of 3-6 months, hiring in that project all moves to offshore and pretty much the project runs from offshore. Since Trump has become president I have seen this happen to 4 projects. About 5 Americans lost their jobs and had to move to other projects within the company.
So thanks Trump.
If you got to pay an H1B twice a local hire than the local hire will ask for twice the local salary as else it would be discrimination in salary based on national origin and if the local hire is getting paid twice the salary than that becomes the base and so you have to now pay 4 times to an H1B and then again you are discriminating and so on....
See where I am going? Its basic logic and logic is very important in programming. And you wonder why the companies need to import coders if this is the result of the US education system?
Many US students are able to study for free because the foreigners are paying a full tuition (they sell their houses and ancestral properties to pay for an US education) Kick the foreign students out and you will see fewer scholarships for American students. It might not be so bad. Fewer college educated Americans would mean more Americans to do farm labor and we might not need workers from Central America to pick the fruit. The foreigners can just as well spend their tuition money in Europe.
You do realize that the only reason Social Security is still solvent is because of immigrants. H1Bs pay into social security but get nothing back. As soon as they lose their job they need to leave the country so they cannot claim unemployment. if they get sick and disabled and cant work they need to leave the country and cannot claim disability. To get retirement benefits you have to pay in for 10 years and H1Bs are for 6 years so they get to pay in but never get to get any benefits.
65K *6 = 390K. Where do you get your 800K numbers unless you are counting the folks whose Green cards are approved but not issued due to the racist rules in place saying that only the same no of cards can be issued to 1 Billion Indians and 1 Billion Chinese as issued to 100000 Croatians?
Stop the racism in Immigration rules and you will se the H1B number fall to 390K.
The spouses allowed to work are those whose green cards are approved but waiting for a priority date. For Indians and Chinese that can be 15-20 years. No educated woman wants to be a housewife for 15-20 years.
The problem with that is California and New York would get as many visas as needed while Austin, Raleigh or Denver companies would not get any. The alternate is to have a salary range depending on the local salaries and that is what is in place today
India should start the same system. For every H1B the companies should have to pay Indian govt 20000 USD for the cost of the education as most good colleges in India are govt funded. That would really make it clear who is doing who a favor in the H1B game.
Shit covered bathrooms is not an H1B problem. Its a Janitorial problem. Probably a Union Janitorial shop.
The lesson to be learned here is that Software development as a industry needs to move to India. H1Bs are a band aid to try and force software development to stay in the USA but ultimately it needs to go. As a country gets richer people want to have easier and easier lives and send the difficult jobs away and software development is one of the few difficult jobs left in the US. Everything else pretty much does not need a brain or a work ethic.
USA being obscenely richer than all other countries was an anomaly due to WW2 destroying all other major economies while growing the US economy. As other economies have rebuilt and others have thrown off the shackles of colonialism and unleashed there potential a reversion to mean is occurring. there is nothing inherently special about America or Americans. Just because someone wins a lottery and becomes a billionaire doesnt mean their children will continue to be always richer than their neighbors. The neighbors will catch up eventually.
The only reason wages are higher in US is during the early 20th century USA was the Saudi Arabia of the world and made a shitload of money from exporting oil. Not every country is sitting on an oil bonanza. Countries will try to use their competitive advantages. One of them can be that their workers are willing to accept a lower lifestyle and hence lower wages