Moderators: the grandparent was not flamebait, I was serious.
Ok, I will start over:
dubious9: I challenge you do some complex multi-dimentional array calculation and manipulation
You mean like:
Matrix a, b, c, d; a = b * b / c + d.dot(a);
unh? easy answer: use the right lib.
dubious9: why would scientists still use it if *everything* was better in c++? Not everything is maintaining applications from the 70's; there *is* new development
I don't know!? Because they don't know C++? Because they would have to put a C++ course in Engineering School? Because they don't know the whole awful lot of ultra efficient, STL-based, highly-parallelized numeric/scientific computation libraries available for C++? (an initial search of freshmeat returns at least seven interesting, relevant results)
bhima: see the world in a web-centric sort of way
what does a web-centric way has to do with c++?
noselasd: Be very much aware that there are lots which measure "efficient" in development time, NOT execution time.
See below:-)
tigersh: That would hardly make Fortran efficient, but then in comparison to C++
I am really more comfortable -- and efficient -- with c++'s features and quirks than with fortran's. But as I answered to dubious9, this is not what I said in the grandparent post. It was: Everything that can be done in FORTRAN can be done more efficiently and just as expressively in c++. So, it kind of lost its raison d'etre. And I stand for it. I can do things like the matrix manipulation of the first question in c++ and have the compiler parallelize what it can, use SSE or whatchmacallit, using templates (and more on this in the last answer) and operator overloading.
noselasd: It seems you think of Fortran as a general purpose language, such as e.g. C and C++ it really is not. Fortran is strong at numerical computing, and in many areas there it is way better than C++
No, it is not. That was my point to begin with.
gowen: Really? How do you get around the fact that the flexibility of C/C++ pointers make it almost impossible to completely optimise/parallelise code is a safe manner?
Answer: Partial Template Specialization. It works.
It's really difficult to do such down here. To change the Constitution is kind of hard. We have a lawsuit called ADI ("Ação direta de inconstitucionalidade" -- inconstitutionality direct strike) that can be entered directly in our Supreme Court by any of our 30+ political parties, by our General Independent Counsel, or by any interested party (me for instance), and has been used a lot to strike unconstitutional laws passed by our Congress.
But beyond that, our current political climate is pro-FreeSoftware, anti-USofAn-monopolies, anti-MS, very, very strongly. The country and the politicians (mostly) agree with Peru's Congressman Edgar Villanueva (see here) arguments in favor of Free Software as a mean to save money in dollars that escape our borders when they go to MS, as a mean to protect our national security because we don't know the possible backdoors in proprietary-closed-sourced-software, as a mean to generate jobs in services, as a mean to generate know-how inside the country, etc.
And, on top of it, many many techs like me are ready to get "in arms" in the case DMCA-shit/Software-patenting-shit creeps into our legislation -- we're watching it!
that the USofA produced up to the present day. really. And IMHO it has produced a lot of crap lately. If my country tries to do something like the DMCA -- which it would have to amend the Constitution to -- I will surely produce a lot of noise. And I'll get out of the country if it passes. To another DMCA-free country and on and on utill everyone everywhere is slave to this USofAn crap.
Seriously. The DMCA is a legal aberration. I had to vent this.
Another one, from which we're similarly protected for a while, is software patenting.
1. I won't buy any hardware that hash such encumbrances, as an end-user. 2. In my country DMCA-style laws won't pass because (a) they would be inconstitutional (b) we would not like them... obviously GWB&cia can come here and "liberate" us from our democratic constitution or protect the rainforest or other gibberish like that, but somehow I hope not. 3. I won't buy any such hardware as a sysadmin because of vendor lock-in and associated costs. I can graft a spreadsheet proving it as a bad business move in 5 minutes. I did it before. 4. People in the USofA may buy stuff again and again but in other, not-so-rich parts of the world, we tend to make our stuff last a little bit more. My government-owned day-work computer is 4 years old and I'll have to cope with it for 2-3 more years. If USB ports were a problem here, they would be disabled in the BIOS and/or soldered. I probably had more to say, but I'm not feeling very well today.
I think the problem with shadows is the *time* it takes to render them (as is the rest of the stuff), so your workstation gets some free cycles (more FPSs, more agile gaming) with the shadows and the rest off.
I always log out of KDE at the end of the session (*), but my machine (home-office workstation) normally stays up until it has to be hardware-serviced or I want to upgrade the kernel. I maxed this in about 100 days. X never locked me up badly, at least not since Xfree 3.1 or (ie, a long time ago).
Some countries' laws (like my own) FORBID patenting of software. We will welcome OOo developers down here and treat them like kings, for our Large government is using more and more.
i'm sorry, but if you ran the program without a proper license, YOU deleted all files in your $HOME, not the author.
the equivalent would be: my bike has uneffective brakes, and I know it, but you come and steal it and you get under a bus. I have absolutely no liability because you had not the right to be riding it anyway. ESPECIALLY if it was in all-caps right in the beginning of the clickthru "EULA", because then it would be properly advertised.
If I had a kid in 1954, I am a baby boomer. If I was 20 at the time, I am 70 now, and I am surely trying to retire, if I am not retired yet. So, my point stands the boomers (as defined: the people who had a lot of kids in the aftermath of the Great War) are retired or retiring by now.
The problem stated here is that the GenW/X/Ys will retire in 30-so years (I -- born at 1970 -- surely intend to).
Recap:
born in 1945-1965: boom baby; their fathers were the baby boomers. born in 1965-1980: Xs born in 1980-199x: Ys
That's what I found fishing around in Web dictionaries.
Ok. Let me explain, too. I had an assignment to purchase 300 "smart" membership cards to an association. The runner-ups were:
* smartcards R$ 10 each * magnetic R$ 5 each * barcode printed R$ 5 each
this included everything up to printing the logo, name, other data *and* photo of each member in the card, delivering, etc. We went for the magnetic cards (our budget was already tight, we made good use of the 50% off we got)
Here in Brasil smart cards run for R$10 (US$ 3) apiece. In the 100's scale. Probably far less in the millions DTV scale.
Maybe you're importing the cards from the wrong country or something? Or they sell the tech for different prices according to the wealth of the costumer?
I don't have financial issues by myself... my whole country has them. I did not mean I can only buy what you have with "three months of what's left of my salary after expenses", I meant "my salary (*), after tax discounts, multiply by 3 and then you'll have the price the goods your mentioned if I was to buy them in my home town".
(*) I am a public employee with a salary 1.5 times the average for a guy in my line of work in my town.
Slashdot Mirror
Ok, I will start over:
dubious9: I challenge you do some complex multi-dimentional array calculation and manipulation
You mean like:
unh? easy answer: use the right lib.
dubious9: why would scientists still use it if *everything* was better in c++? Not everything is maintaining applications from the 70's; there *is* new development
I don't know!? Because they don't know C++? Because they would have to put a C++ course in Engineering School? Because they don't know the whole awful lot of ultra efficient, STL-based, highly-parallelized numeric/scientific computation libraries available for C++? (an initial search of freshmeat returns at least seven interesting, relevant results)
bhima: see the world in a web-centric sort of way
what does a web-centric way has to do with c++?
noselasd: Be very much aware that there are lots which measure "efficient" in development time, NOT execution time.
See below
tigersh: That would hardly make Fortran efficient, but then in comparison to C++
I am really more comfortable -- and efficient -- with c++'s features and quirks than with fortran's. But as I answered to dubious9, this is not what I said in the grandparent post. It was: Everything that can be done in FORTRAN can be done more efficiently and just as expressively in c++. So, it kind of lost its raison d'etre. And I stand for it. I can do things like the matrix manipulation of the first question in c++ and have the compiler parallelize what it can, use SSE or whatchmacallit, using templates (and more on this in the last answer) and operator overloading.
noselasd: It seems you think of Fortran as a general purpose language, such as e.g. C and C++ it really is not. Fortran is strong at numerical computing, and in many areas there it is way better than C++
No, it is not. That was my point to begin with.
gowen: Really? How do you get around the fact that the flexibility of C/C++ pointers make it almost impossible to completely optimise/parallelise code is a safe manner?
Answer: Partial Template Specialization. It works.
It's really difficult to do such down here. To change the Constitution is kind of hard. We have a lawsuit called ADI ("Ação direta de inconstitucionalidade" -- inconstitutionality direct strike) that can be entered directly in our Supreme Court by any of our 30+ political parties, by our General Independent Counsel, or by any interested party (me for instance), and has been used a lot to strike unconstitutional laws passed by our Congress.
But beyond that, our current political climate is pro-FreeSoftware, anti-USofAn-monopolies, anti-MS, very, very strongly. The country and the politicians (mostly) agree with Peru's Congressman Edgar Villanueva (see here) arguments in favor of Free Software as a mean to save money in dollars that escape our borders when they go to MS, as a mean to protect our national security because we don't know the possible backdoors in proprietary-closed-sourced-software, as a mean to generate jobs in services, as a mean to generate know-how inside the country, etc.
And, on top of it, many many techs like me are ready to get "in arms" in the case DMCA-shit/Software-patenting-shit creeps into our legislation -- we're watching it!
that the USofA produced up to the present day. really. And IMHO it has produced a lot of crap lately. If my country tries to do something like the DMCA -- which it would have to amend the Constitution to -- I will surely produce a lot of noise. And I'll get out of the country if it passes. To another DMCA-free country and on and on utill everyone everywhere is slave to this USofAn crap.
Seriously. The DMCA is a legal aberration. I had to vent this.
Another one, from which we're similarly protected for a while, is software patenting.
1. I won't buy any hardware that hash such encumbrances, as an end-user. ... obviously GWB&cia can come here and "liberate" us from our democratic constitution or protect the rainforest or other gibberish like that, but somehow I hope not.
2. In my country DMCA-style laws won't pass because (a) they would be inconstitutional (b) we would not like them
3. I won't buy any such hardware as a sysadmin because of vendor lock-in and associated costs. I can graft a spreadsheet proving it as a bad business move in 5 minutes. I did it before.
4. People in the USofA may buy stuff again and again but in other, not-so-rich parts of the world, we tend to make our stuff last a little bit more. My government-owned day-work computer is 4 years old and I'll have to cope with it for 2-3 more years. If USB ports were a problem here, they would be disabled in the BIOS and/or soldered.
I probably had more to say, but I'm not feeling very well today.
I think the problem with shadows is the *time* it takes to render them (as is the rest of the stuff), so your workstation gets some free cycles (more FPSs, more agile gaming) with the shadows and the rest off.
Everything that can be done in FORTRAN can be done more efficiently and just as expressively in c++. So, it kind of lost its raison d'etre.
as another poster said, "liberating" the Axis of Evil countries that would not comply with such Free Market scheme... oboy.
I always log out of KDE at the end of the session (*), but my machine (home-office workstation) normally stays up until it has to be hardware-serviced or I want to upgrade the kernel. I maxed this in about 100 days. X never locked me up badly, at least not since Xfree 3.1 or (ie, a long time ago).
New as in 1990. :-)
Come on, perl compiles since... since... ohboy... a long time ago. get over it.
Bob did not fail... it begat Clippy !!!
Some countries' laws (like my own) FORBID patenting of software. We will welcome OOo developers down here and treat them like kings, for our Large government is using more and more.
My firm (and many others, I think) would be very glad to open a support contract with yours. If you're interested, sld/at/massa/dot/cc.
Yes, and a Mebicorp would be one containing more than 2^20 corps
This is John's pos-Beatles phase. But thank you for trying.
i'm sorry, but if you ran the program without a proper license, YOU deleted all files in your $HOME, not the author.
the equivalent would be: my bike has uneffective brakes, and I know it, but you come and steal it and you get under a bus. I have absolutely no liability because you had not the right to be riding it anyway. ESPECIALLY if it was in all-caps right in the beginning of the clickthru "EULA", because then it would be properly advertised.
And even the smiley didn't give you the hint, uh? ;-) WINK WINK
If I had a kid in 1954, I am a baby boomer. If I was 20 at the time, I am 70 now, and I am surely trying to retire, if I am not retired yet. So, my point stands the boomers (as defined: the people who had a lot of kids in the aftermath of the Great War) are retired or retiring by now.
The problem stated here is that the GenW/X/Ys will retire in 30-so years (I -- born at 1970 -- surely intend to).
Recap:
born in 1945-1965: boom baby; their fathers were the baby boomers.
born in 1965-1980: Xs
born in 1980-199x: Ys
That's what I found fishing around in Web dictionaries.
2. sell a lot of hardware and associated extended warranties and servicing and consulting and other services and support.
The baby boomers are already retired. The babies of the boom are the ones that will begin retiring soon.
Ok. Let me explain, too. I had an assignment to purchase 300 "smart" membership cards to an association. The runner-ups were:
* smartcards R$ 10 each
* magnetic R$ 5 each
* barcode printed R$ 5 each
this included everything up to printing the logo, name, other data *and* photo of each member in the card, delivering, etc. We went for the magnetic cards (our budget was already tight, we made good use of the 50% off we got)
Here in Brasil smart cards run for R$10 (US$ 3) apiece. In the 100's scale. Probably far less in the millions DTV scale.
Maybe you're importing the cards from the wrong country or something? Or they sell the tech for different prices according to the wealth of the costumer?
The fact that the V1s and V2s were made with slave juden work?
is laughing his a** off reading your post.
If you can't see humour in this one, don't bother to moderate.
the FOAF spam killed it to me.
I don't have financial issues by myself ... my whole country has them. I did not mean I can only buy what you have with "three months of what's left of my salary after expenses", I meant "my salary (*), after tax discounts, multiply by 3 and then you'll have the price the goods your mentioned if I was to buy them in my home town".
(*) I am a public employee with a salary 1.5 times the average for a guy in my line of work in my town.