You are mistaken with respect to relevancy. The pain felt by the stockholder is not proportional to all financial wealth, it is proportional to the individual's financial circumstances.
contrary to the propagandists, speed does not kill
I told that to a cop once after he gave me a ticket and said "Speed kills, remember that!"
I asked politely enough "really? then why don't I see NASCAR drivers just keel over dead when they hit 100mph? Or should you say bad drivers speeding are what kills?" He just ignored me and said " Have a nice day!" I thought I made my point though.
I'm afraid the notion you made to the cop was probably not the notion you intended.:-)
I'm still wondering if putting a bunch of high intensity IR LEDs around my license plate, will 'blind' the CCD cameras these things are likely using?
CCDs are often placed behind IR cutoff filters. You phone probably does this, your digital camera as well, and I presume the commercial "speed" cameras too. Of course that will not stop the vendors selling LED license plate frames and other gadgets destined to be busted on a myth busters episode.
What about all that android malware everyone keeps talking about?
The device is probably locked down and the user can not install apps. These are highly specialized **work related** devices.
Re:Was the world better off due to C?
on
Dennis Ritchie Day
·
· Score: 1
Though it appears there are a number of compliers, as far as i can tell similar run time performance is way of saying Pascal less than an order of magnitude slower than C.
As someone who programmed PCs (DOS) and Macs in both Pascal and C back in the day I saw no such discrepancy with contemporaneous compilers. Again, these Pascal and C compilers were serious efforts by their respective developers, not some hack preprocessor that converted pascal to c and compiled the generated c, crudely generated c I might ad. C compilers of the day were also quite primitive with respect to optimization so they were not very good at cleaning up this crude generated c code.
Can we contrive a code snippet that shows a difference that doesn't require a stopwatch, yes. Perhaps to give C the win we could try something with a tight loop and lots of array accesses with Pascal's array bounds checking turned on. Note that such bounds checking is an option. To give Pascal the win perhaps would could try something with a tight loop with string length operations.
At some point someone thought getting an educated population was worth the risk/cost....
I agree with that idea, although I may disagree with some current implementation details. I am only arguing against a different idea, the idea that defaulting on bank loans somehow effects (to use today's popular euphemism) the 1%'er (bank execs, etc). In truth it is the 99% (taxpayers, students, share holders, etc) that will pay.
Re:Was the world better off due to C?
on
Dennis Ritchie Day
·
· Score: 1
Pascal and C have similar run-time performance. Unless you are thinking of something like UCSD that compiles to byte code not native code and requires an interpreter like Java. Also assuming you are using a real pascal compiler not something that translates pascal to c and then runs it through a c compiler as was often done in unix-based environments.
Its kind of hard to envision Java if C had not existed. Also with UCSD preceding it by decades I would have thought that niche would have been filled by something descended from UCSD.
The 16MB limit of ancient Macs was not due to anything in Pascal, it was a hardware limitation. Only the lower 24 bits of the address bus were used.
As someone who sometimes gets paid to break into "internal" systems, I would like to encourage this mentality. The farther behind "internal" systems get on patches, the easier it is for me to demonstrate success.
If "farther behind" refers to the time frame between a RHEL patch and the corresponding CentOS patch you may not have much to work with. We are not talking about leaving internal systems unpatched.
The "loss" being "offset" is the remaining principal of the loan. Principal on the bad loan is being offset by interest on the good loans. The government is losing taxes on the interest of however many good loans it takes to make that offset.
So the banks immediately recover whatever their taxes would have been. If you believe they suffer a loss on whatever they would have retained after taxes you are mistaken. That "loss" will be part of the interest rate calculation used for future loans. Interest is partly a function of risk. If risk increases because government makes it harder to collect then interest rates will rise.
The stock holders do not lose. Government loses via lost tax revenue. Consumers lose via higher student loan rates.
Expense for tax purposes? What are you talking about? When something is "written off" as a loss to a business, it literally comes off their books as a loss. So let's say you owed my company a $100 for money that I borrowed you and you never pay. Most companies would write off the $100 that they never received to offset the gains they made from the customers that did pay. If they end up making any money they pay taxes on that. There is no tax payer subsidy.
The "subsidy" is the lost tax revenue from the gains being offset by the loss. The government does not reduce spending due to such losses in revenue, it either makes up the revenue through higher taxation elsewhere or goes deeper into debt. In either case the taxpayer ultimately pays.
If their debt is forgiven at 20 years instead of 25, who eats the loss?
The same people *always* eat the loss, the taxpayers and/or consumers. Banks and corporations do *not* eat the loss, it either becomes a fully deductible expense for tax purposes or it is passed along to consumers who are paying for other products or services. Regarding the later, note that when the Dodd-Frank bill limited credit card processing fees the response of the banks was to raise fees elsewhere.
There is possibly another type of person who will "lose". Banks may decline applicants in majors that are not correlated with a higher earning potential.
You are lucky your CIO is not wedded to Windows. Stop complaining.
Not only that the CIO seems to know that Linux has various distributions serving different needs and knows of CentOS' relationship to RHEL. Not being a Windows only guy is great, but knowing that Linux is not a singular unix-like operating system is even better. There is actually no real evidence that the CIO is making an ill informed decision. He may be of the opinion that it is, or should be, within the IT department's capabilities to support these systems. More so if the systems are for internal use, less so if they are accessible by the public.
I think we need to know if the centos systems will be accessible by the public or if they are strictly for internal use. If for internal use I think rhel support would be less of an issue.
Re:C not all that unique, except buffer overflow
on
Dennis Ritchie Day
·
· Score: 1
I bet a lot of those pascal compiler were written in C.
Turbo Pascal was small and fast because it was written in assembly.
The main advantage of assembly being that it is hard to write. At the other extreme java is so easy to write that coding never actually stops. The software grows to fit the time and space available.
You are changing the topic, but I'll emphasize again that assembly is used for size and speed. Those two characteristics are what distinguished Turbo Pascal from competitors and gave it an advantage. Bill Gates was quite livid at how much faster Turbo Pascal was compared to Microsoft products. With respect to hard to write, thats a bit of an overstatement, its harder but not overly so for good programmers who also understand the underlying architecture.
Re:C not all that unique, except buffer overflow
on
Dennis Ritchie Day
·
· Score: 1
I bet a lot of those pascal compiler were written in C.
Turbo Pascal was small and fast because it was written in assembly.
Re:C and Unix not used initially at Apple
on
Dennis Ritchie Day
·
· Score: 1
Fair enough for Apple 2.0 but Wozniak and Jobs are where they are primarily because of things that predated NeXT, Apple 1.0.
C not all that unique, except buffer overflow
on
Dennis Ritchie Day
·
· Score: 1
C and UNIX were not comparable to anything that was being done anywhere else in the world at the time.
I fail to see how C was terribly different from Pascal, ALGOL and a host of other languages available back in the day. I've used C for decades, but if one of the other languages had become dominant I expect the world would be largely the same. A lot of early 3rd party Mac programming was done in Pascal, Mac OS itself was written in Pascal. A lot of early 3rd party and hobbyist PC programming was done in Pascal. I think Borland's Delphi demonstrates a more modern Pascal dialect that works well for large scale modern applications.
Perhaps a correction is in order, if C had not existed the world would largely be the same, except perhaps we would have far few buffer overflow concerns.
If you want to talk about languages that were truly different then you need to discuss LISP, APL, etc.
C and Unix not used initially at Apple
on
Dennis Ritchie Day
·
· Score: 3
Jobs and Woz wouldn't be where they are without each other, nor would they be where they are without Ritchie (and a whole slew of other pioneers).
The Apple II's OS was written in assembly. The original 3rd party development environments were assembly and BASIC. The Macintosh's OS was written in Pascal. The original 3rd party development environment was Pascal. C and Unix were not really involved in Apple's *initial* success.
Was the world better off due to C? If it had not existed then programmers may have simply used Pascal. The world would largely be the same, except we would have far fewer buffer overflows.;-)
and that any party you sell it to also agree to these terms.
And such countries that recognize the right of first sale render said contract null and void. You cannot bind third parties (or fourth or fifth parties) to your contract, especially when they reside/operate in a country far away from where the contract was signed.
It is the seller that is restricted, if the other party can not be bound then the seller can not sell.
They are not professional engineers in terms of software or industry. The word engineer dates back to the old days.
Untrue. They are very much considered engineers in industry. My grandfather worked for the railroad briefly in the 1930s and in other industrial settings. He had a state issued stationary engineer's license, this implies there is a non-stationary engineer's license that probably referred to train engineers. The stationary engineer's license that he possessed allowed him to fire the boilers in the electrical power generating plant of an army munitions factory during world war 2.
I get your point, but its a mistake to think licensed engineers only consists of the white collar design and build type jobs. At least as recently as the 1950s.
Slashdot Mirror
What you say is true, but almost irrelevant. Almost all financial wealth is held by the top decile. http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
You are mistaken with respect to relevancy. The pain felt by the stockholder is not proportional to all financial wealth, it is proportional to the individual's financial circumstances.
contrary to the propagandists, speed does not kill
I told that to a cop once after he gave me a ticket and said "Speed kills, remember that!" I asked politely enough "really? then why don't I see NASCAR drivers just keel over dead when they hit 100mph? Or should you say bad drivers speeding are what kills?" He just ignored me and said " Have a nice day!" I thought I made my point though.
I'm afraid the notion you made to the cop was probably not the notion you intended. :-)
Hmm.
I'm still wondering if putting a bunch of high intensity IR LEDs around my license plate, will 'blind' the CCD cameras these things are likely using?
CCDs are often placed behind IR cutoff filters. You phone probably does this, your digital camera as well, and I presume the commercial "speed" cameras too. Of course that will not stop the vendors selling LED license plate frames and other gadgets destined to be busted on a myth busters episode.
What about all that android malware everyone keeps talking about?
The device is probably locked down and the user can not install apps. These are highly specialized **work related** devices.
Though it appears there are a number of compliers, as far as i can tell similar run time performance is way of saying Pascal less than an order of magnitude slower than C.
As someone who programmed PCs (DOS) and Macs in both Pascal and C back in the day I saw no such discrepancy with contemporaneous compilers. Again, these Pascal and C compilers were serious efforts by their respective developers, not some hack preprocessor that converted pascal to c and compiled the generated c, crudely generated c I might ad. C compilers of the day were also quite primitive with respect to optimization so they were not very good at cleaning up this crude generated c code.
Can we contrive a code snippet that shows a difference that doesn't require a stopwatch, yes. Perhaps to give C the win we could try something with a tight loop and lots of array accesses with Pascal's array bounds checking turned on. Note that such bounds checking is an option. To give Pascal the win perhaps would could try something with a tight loop with string length operations.
At some point someone thought getting an educated population was worth the risk/cost ....
I agree with that idea, although I may disagree with some current implementation details. I am only arguing against a different idea, the idea that defaulting on bank loans somehow effects (to use today's popular euphemism) the 1%'er (bank execs, etc). In truth it is the 99% (taxpayers, students, share holders, etc) that will pay.
Pascal and C have similar run-time performance. Unless you are thinking of something like UCSD that compiles to byte code not native code and requires an interpreter like Java. Also assuming you are using a real pascal compiler not something that translates pascal to c and then runs it through a c compiler as was often done in unix-based environments.
Its kind of hard to envision Java if C had not existed. Also with UCSD preceding it by decades I would have thought that niche would have been filled by something descended from UCSD.
The 16MB limit of ancient Macs was not due to anything in Pascal, it was a hardware limitation. Only the lower 24 bits of the address bus were used.
"billionth of a billionth of a gram" That is painful to read. How about scientific notation? 1*10^-18 grams Or the use of a prefix? 1 atto gram
I fear you have just validated the original author's choice. :-)
Turbo Pascal was for the PC.
Yes and if you reread my earlier post you will notice I referred both to early Mac programming and early DOS programming on PCs.
The only losers are the company's stockholders.
I apologize for the tangent but it might be useful to consider that stockholders are often regular people who have a pension, 401K or IRA.
As someone who sometimes gets paid to break into "internal" systems, I would like to encourage this mentality. The farther behind "internal" systems get on patches, the easier it is for me to demonstrate success.
If "farther behind" refers to the time frame between a RHEL patch and the corresponding CentOS patch you may not have much to work with. We are not talking about leaving internal systems unpatched.
The "loss" being "offset" is the remaining principal of the loan. Principal on the bad loan is being offset by interest on the good loans. The government is losing taxes on the interest of however many good loans it takes to make that offset.
So the banks immediately recover whatever their taxes would have been. If you believe they suffer a loss on whatever they would have retained after taxes you are mistaken. That "loss" will be part of the interest rate calculation used for future loans. Interest is partly a function of risk. If risk increases because government makes it harder to collect then interest rates will rise.
The stock holders do not lose. Government loses via lost tax revenue. Consumers lose via higher student loan rates.
Expense for tax purposes? What are you talking about? When something is "written off" as a loss to a business, it literally comes off their books as a loss. So let's say you owed my company a $100 for money that I borrowed you and you never pay. Most companies would write off the $100 that they never received to offset the gains they made from the customers that did pay. If they end up making any money they pay taxes on that. There is no tax payer subsidy.
The "subsidy" is the lost tax revenue from the gains being offset by the loss. The government does not reduce spending due to such losses in revenue, it either makes up the revenue through higher taxation elsewhere or goes deeper into debt. In either case the taxpayer ultimately pays.
If their debt is forgiven at 20 years instead of 25, who eats the loss?
The same people *always* eat the loss, the taxpayers and/or consumers. Banks and corporations do *not* eat the loss, it either becomes a fully deductible expense for tax purposes or it is passed along to consumers who are paying for other products or services. Regarding the later, note that when the Dodd-Frank bill limited credit card processing fees the response of the banks was to raise fees elsewhere.
There is possibly another type of person who will "lose". Banks may decline applicants in majors that are not correlated with a higher earning potential.
You are lucky your CIO is not wedded to Windows. Stop complaining.
Not only that the CIO seems to know that Linux has various distributions serving different needs and knows of CentOS' relationship to RHEL. Not being a Windows only guy is great, but knowing that Linux is not a singular unix-like operating system is even better. There is actually no real evidence that the CIO is making an ill informed decision. He may be of the opinion that it is, or should be, within the IT department's capabilities to support these systems. More so if the systems are for internal use, less so if they are accessible by the public.
I think we need to know if the centos systems will be accessible by the public or if they are strictly for internal use. If for internal use I think rhel support would be less of an issue.
I bet a lot of those pascal compiler were written in C.
Turbo Pascal was small and fast because it was written in assembly.
The main advantage of assembly being that it is hard to write. At the other extreme java is so easy to write that coding never actually stops. The software grows to fit the time and space available.
You are changing the topic, but I'll emphasize again that assembly is used for size and speed. Those two characteristics are what distinguished Turbo Pascal from competitors and gave it an advantage. Bill Gates was quite livid at how much faster Turbo Pascal was compared to Microsoft products. With respect to hard to write, thats a bit of an overstatement, its harder but not overly so for good programmers who also understand the underlying architecture.
I bet a lot of those pascal compiler were written in C.
Turbo Pascal was small and fast because it was written in assembly.
Fair enough for Apple 2.0 but Wozniak and Jobs are where they are primarily because of things that predated NeXT, Apple 1.0.
C and UNIX were not comparable to anything that was being done anywhere else in the world at the time.
I fail to see how C was terribly different from Pascal, ALGOL and a host of other languages available back in the day. I've used C for decades, but if one of the other languages had become dominant I expect the world would be largely the same. A lot of early 3rd party Mac programming was done in Pascal, Mac OS itself was written in Pascal. A lot of early 3rd party and hobbyist PC programming was done in Pascal. I think Borland's Delphi demonstrates a more modern Pascal dialect that works well for large scale modern applications.
Perhaps a correction is in order, if C had not existed the world would largely be the same, except perhaps we would have far few buffer overflow concerns.
If you want to talk about languages that were truly different then you need to discuss LISP, APL, etc.
Jobs and Woz wouldn't be where they are without each other, nor would they be where they are without Ritchie (and a whole slew of other pioneers).
The Apple II's OS was written in assembly. The original 3rd party development environments were assembly and BASIC. The Macintosh's OS was written in Pascal. The original 3rd party development environment was Pascal. C and Unix were not really involved in Apple's *initial* success.
Was the world better off due to C? If it had not existed then programmers may have simply used Pascal. The world would largely be the same, except we would have far fewer buffer overflows. ;-)
What's the difference between a zombie attack and Occupy Wall Street?
Zombies will "survive" the freezing cold of winter.
and that any party you sell it to also agree to these terms.
And such countries that recognize the right of first sale render said contract null and void. You cannot bind third parties (or fourth or fifth parties) to your contract, especially when they reside/operate in a country far away from where the contract was signed.
It is the seller that is restricted, if the other party can not be bound then the seller can not sell.
They are not professional engineers in terms of software or industry. The word engineer dates back to the old days.
Untrue. They are very much considered engineers in industry. My grandfather worked for the railroad briefly in the 1930s and in other industrial settings. He had a state issued stationary engineer's license, this implies there is a non-stationary engineer's license that probably referred to train engineers. The stationary engineer's license that he possessed allowed him to fire the boilers in the electrical power generating plant of an army munitions factory during world war 2.
I get your point, but its a mistake to think licensed engineers only consists of the white collar design and build type jobs. At least as recently as the 1950s.