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Multi-Target Photo-Radar System To Make Speeding Riskier
mrquagmire writes with this excerpt from Engadget:
"Go easy on the gas, Speed Racer, because Cordon is on its way. Developed by Simicon, this new speed sensor promises to take highway surveillance to new heights of precision. Unlike most photo radar systems, which track only one violator at a time, Simicon's device can simultaneously identify and follow up to 32 vehicles across four lanes. Whenever a car enters its range, the Cordon will automatically generate two images: one from wide-angle view and one closeup shot of the vehicle's license plate. It's also capable of instantly measuring a car's speed and mapping its position, and can easily be synced with other databases via WiFi, 3G or WiMAX."
Thank God county Sheriff's can't get/use radar here. Still, it'll make going through towns that much worse.
I am dubious...
So this thing must have Heisenberg compensators.
Congratulations on getting your Slashvertisment on the front page, but how does this differ from single radar systems? Other than the fact that it tracks multiple cars, but don't the reasons brought up by defendants in court regarding these systems still hold up?
And will they allow us to see the source code for Cordon?
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
If you watch the video, you'll see that unless the car is stopped or stopping it is speeding. More proof that speed limits below 45 mph on four lane roads are there for the tax breaks and ticket generation.
When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.
...when my Google car is driving itself above the speed limit?
You get ticketed if you are going over the speed limit, does that actually curb vehicular accidents or is it just a speed tax?
It's only a matter of time before our own cars start giving us tickets like in the movie Fifth Element.
Fortunately South Carolina has Bubba.
Bubba comes in many shapes and sizes (mostly rotund). Bubba likes to shoot and shiny objects that Uncle Sam sets up alongside the road.
Bubba works for the good of mankind by filling full of holes things like street signs, street lights, and traffic cameras.
A speed limit sign, or deer-crossing sign you can just about still use even when it is full of holes. Speed cameras are pretty much useless after the first shot.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
I tell the children when I see a policeman with a radar gun that "he's on a revenue drive."
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
Based on the video the solution is that if you are speeding, you should also tailgate.
Hello Cordon I'd like you to meet my friend EMP.
And just in case you're shielded meet my sexy friend Ms. Rifle.
Why not cut out the middle man and just require all cars to have a GPS system that is always on, calculates the car's speed, checks the car's location against a database of published speed limits and alerts the authorities/automatically debits the drivers checking account every time the speed goes above the limit? Then instead of paying traffic cops to sit by the side of the road we could pay them to fight real criminals (with the money from all of the speeding tickets).
pro: Who hasn't been passed by a jerk going 15 (at least) over the limit and wished there were someone around to catch them.
con: Does anyone have 'perfect speed' all the time? Especially coming down hills or just going with the flow of traffic?
cars tagged with a green dot are traveling below the speed limit, those with a yellow marking are chugging along within an acceptable range above the limit, while vehicles with a red tab are just asking for trouble
There's some leeway built into the system, and it looks like it's about 5 (mph?)
PS: I don't reply to ACs.
If staters were as concerned over highway safety as they are with speed, think of how wonderful our highways would be.
Every frequent speeder will know where the camera's are and just slow down for that bit of lane. And continue speeding after.
Take a look at the Netherlands: Trajectory control. You get tagged at A, X-miles down the road you get tagged again and if your average speed is too high you get booked. This leaves room for overtaking other cars without fear of getting booked, actually making traffic safer and eliminates the breaking for a single point measurement. Also because the points are so far apart the accuracy is better.
You know an EMP would fry your car as well as all the cars around you right? this might just kill people when all the electronics governing everything just shut down.
S-300 SAM can track up to 100 and engage up to 12.
That's what would make speeding riskier.
How many targets that puny Cordon can engage at once?
Seems like a very complicated way to collect taxes.
A useful application would be to target those vehicles which are going more than 10% (or 10km/h or whatever) faster than everyone else. That would actually improve safety and make the highway system more efficient (homogenous traffic reduces braking/lane changes and increases throughput). However, that's not the primary goal of highway speed enforcement so it will never happen
When you have nothing left to burn you must set yourself on fire
Then WHEN this has been implemented for a while... and tickets go up.... and there is no difference at all in accidents or deaths....
can we THEN admit that we have hit the point of diminishing returns wrt enforcement vs actual safety?
We keep seeing more rules or better enforcement... and yet.... don't seem to see corresponding improvements in safety. In fact, the only improvements in real safety that I have seen, have all come from safety devices in cars, like air bags.
We saw it in NY, when talking on phones was banned, and a study was able to verify that yes, people really were switching to headsets or not talking... more than a 60% drop in OBSERVED use...but.... no change at all in deaths or accidents. Yet somehow... that was explained away as not having any meaning (because if the report doesn't say we need more enforcement and more penalties, then its clearly not valid right?)
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
From the looks of those drivers, they don't follow any kind of road laws. When someone can't even stay in their own lane, how can we expect them to obey speed limits?
The time has come to stockpile tinfoil hats. Large ones. And then put them over these cameras if/when they show up near you.
...It costs a billion dollars.
Owns traffic cameras.
First of all, what is the freaking speed limit on that road?
The only cars in the green are the ones coming to a stop in frame.
Second, I spotted one car with a green indicator accelerating away from a following car with a yellow indicator. So the thing isn't really discriminating accurately.
If I'm ever popped by this system, that piece of video will be my defense.
Nice idea, but its going to take lots of new employees to be able to decipher who's speeding and who's not and well, its nothing that a shotgun or a bb gun can't take care of at a distance ... hehehehe !
So it wouldn't be speeding that gets riskier (who'll want a system to do that?) but being caught when speeding.
They also need to take current conditions into account (wet roads, fog, etc.) to determine if someone is breaking the basic speed law, even when they are driving below the posted speed limit.
And if they can do all that, they can objectively determine if you're tailgating (driving on a road too close to the vehicle in front, at a distance which does not guarantee that stopping to avoid collision is possible).
Because so many people tailgate according this definition, this technology has the potential to make roads a lot safer!
Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
GPS does not work all over and in cases it can say you are on a side road when you are on the highway next to it.
The tech side of me thinks the video is awesome -- display of speed and ANR result in real time. Pretty cool. The driver side of me thinks that I'm far more likely to get a ticket in the mail which I wouldn't be able to contest. After all, we have the vendor's *word* that the displayed speed and ANR results are accurate and true, but all of us engineers know that no design is perfect...
Speed Limits are arbitary limits which do not take into account
- Weather
- Vehicle type: are you a sports car or a truck
- Driver skill / fatigue
I think most western countries have passed the sweet stop of punative surveilance vs safety 10 years ago. It is now about revenue raising for states that are cash strapped. The cordon system takes this to a new level. In fact I thought of developing a system like this, and thought no, as it doesn't do the public any good.
What would be better is a fine system that is relative to risk. eg Lets say you had a GPS speed tracker (ingnore the big brother issues for this example). You get 'fined' (taxed) 1c for every km you exceed the speed limitby 1-10km/hr. 10c 11-20km/hr. $1 21-30km/hr. $10 31-40 km/hr. $100 41-50km/hr. $1000 51-60km/hr. then add a linear factor for vehicle type.
Insurance companies make these type of calculations all the time. There is no reason why government could not calculate the monetary cost of speeding (ie increased accident rate caused by speeding). Of course, this sort of thinking is way outside the box for a goverment and will never happen (and they would balls up the calculation), and we will have to live with $150 fines for exceeding the speed limit by 10% on a downhill slope.
46137
So, it precisely identifies every vehicle in it's frame of view - and just how accurate is it at actually matching speed with a vehicle?
With normal traffic radar, the only guarantee that you really have is "something was going 72 mph" - there's no guarantee that the vehicle being pointed at was doing that speed. Motorcycle enthusiasts have pointed out repeatedly that a truck four times further away from the radar gun than a motorcycle will be tracked instead of the motorcycle, as will other vehicles in different lanes, going either direction.
Unless this uses a laser or similar technology to actually track the license plate, it's just another inaccurate revenue generator. /frank
And the worms ate into his brain.
If so I want a dozen of these in my city. On my drive into work this morning three cars zipped through the red light 2.5 seconds after it had changed. On my walk during lunch hour at another intersection I watch 2 more vehicles blow through the just-barely red before they entered the intersection.
Rather than citations, I'd like auto-cannons installed to gun down the offenders.
Somehow going 20 over the speed limit is a lot less attractive than it used to be. I guess the next step to is practice ignoring my blinker.
In New York State, passage on many of the highways requires tolls. Many of us use an electronic system called EZ-Pass to pay the tolls. It's especially pleasant to avoid having to roll down the window during the cold winter.
Instead of all this fancy monitoring gear, you could just look at the times from toll to toll. It would be impossible to prove that a vehicle was never speeding, but easy to prove that it definitely was speeding.
I already feel my environment is overly draconian so I've never been one to advocate such a system.
Spoon not. Fork, or fork not. There is no spoon.
Then we will vote for higher speed limits. Problem solved. Highway should not fine anyone below 95mph. Should warn them at best but not fine.
Based on that video, I should just drive close enough to the car in front of me that half or less of my license plate is readable by the camera. Thanks for increasing road safety, automated ticket systems.
Although it would be resource intensive I think they still need to do driving tests that realistically assess driving skill and assign speed limits accordingly. That's the only way I would accept the new personal electronic vehicle speed monitoring systems that are starting to hit public use. Theoretically you could automate the testing by putting people in a simulator, and letting it judge their safe reaction speed.
I would appreciate having a higher ranked license than the person with the handicapped plates driving 10 mph under the speed limit in the left lane with their right turn signal on perpetually. (I only mention handicapped plates because with only one exception every single person with them I've seen has been a terrible driver in one way or another.)
Because it is a valid query, regardless of the presuppositions of some. If there is a bug in their software that misidentifies the correct speed for a road, wouldn't holding you responsible be a bit unfair? Sure, you believe you've got a feeling of how fast your car is going and that you might notice, but be honest, would you really? If your car was doing say 35 in a 25 and you're too busy on your laptop telling us how much you hate anonymous cowards, would you really notice?
What about when limits change for whatever reason. Thanks to Google's error, your car believes that doing 60 is just fine on that highway. Even if you believe you'd still be aware of the feeling - you wouldn't feel anything wrong, because history has taught you that road is 60, but now it isn't. Instead you might be speeding in a 45 or 50, or pissing off everyone behind you in a 70.
To assume that current laws account for this technology is awesomely naive. Don't think otherwise, you know nothing. No one does. It hasn't been decided yet.
I get so fucking tired of assholes driving side by side and driving 7-10 mph below the posted speed limit.
If they're going to drive below the speed limit, fine, do it, just do it in the fucking far right hand lane.
Assholes.
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
- Weather
In my great state, you are required to slow at least 10 mph in inclement weather.
- Vehicle type: are you a sports car or a truck
Did you forget the separate speed limit signs for eighteen wheelers?
- Driver skill / fatigue
Other laws cover this.
- Speed Limits are arbitrary limits
That's a mighty big claim. Why do they bother with all those road workers and equations then? Look, the occasional reevaluation of some speed limits may be warranted, but they're far from arbitrary numbers.
Your point is entirely valid, but I'd just like to point out that by the time Google Cars are available they will be able to read every street sign about as well as a human could (if they can't already), so sudden signage changes won't be an issue.
I think it would be interesting if self-driving cars were required to have some sort of black-box data recorder so that you could prove in court after an accident whether the software was at fault and what type of error occurred. If the thing blue-screened in the middle of an intersection, that could easily be pinned on the manufacturer, but if it was something like failing to obey the instructions of an officer, that would pretty clearly be the person's fault for not taking control in an unusual situation.
Ok, so what am I supposed to do when the flow of traffic is doing 70 on a 55mph road?
Slow down and risk causing a pile-up/snarl-up?
Or do the safe thing and keep moving with traffic?
"It's also capable of instantly measuring a car's speed and mapping its position"
A small point - but it is impossible to measure speed instantly.
Also: Blackberry outage made roads safer. The usual arguments apply (correlation, causation, anecdotal).
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Why don't we just use a little more brains and a little less technology here? Just record the time a car went through one end of a toll road and the time the car went through the other end of a toll road (most automatic systems already do this). Then divide the distance between them by the time, and discover if they were speeding or not using the Mean Value Theorem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_value_theorem). Yes, some people will speed at some points and be slow at other points, but if you're going to do that, what's the point of speeding?
This thing reads ALL of the plates, not just the speeder's plates.
AND it has wireless connectivity.
Add a little software and you see that the real benefit to this system is that the cops can get messages like this: "Hey that guy you are looking for was heading west on 14th St. at the intersection of Avenue C at 11:43AM".
And no more tickets from that camera until it gets a fresh CCD.
Whatever fines governments throw at people from investments like this should be ignored. If people don't pay the fines, then the government won't get a return, and then they'll ll be forced to scrap it. Whatever treasurer and legislator they have, will realize it is, indeed, a waste.
Now Mr. Businessman you know why I no longer drive to the mall.
Nor do I Sunday drive where I might shop If i cant get it delivered with a mouse click I dont need it.
Only way to avoid the law is just dont go out.
Nothing in the article says how it gets around the problem with all the other photo radars out there - They get a picture of your license plate, but they have no evidence that YOU were driving, instead of your wife, or kid, or even a rogue valet parking attendant.
If you can't prove it's me, I'm not inclined to pay the fine.
"I disagree with you" does not equal "flamebait."
but the same people who believe they have the right to speed are too self important to actually do anything as complicated as changing the laws.
Hmm.
I'm still wondering if putting a bunch of high intensity IR LEDs around my license plate, will 'blind' the CCD cameras these things are likely using?
CCDs are often placed behind IR cutoff filters. You phone probably does this, your digital camera as well, and I presume the commercial "speed" cameras too. Of course that will not stop the vendors selling LED license plate frames and other gadgets destined to be busted on a myth busters episode.
contrary to the propagandists, speed does not kill
I told that to a cop once after he gave me a ticket and said "Speed kills, remember that!" I asked politely enough "really? then why don't I see NASCAR drivers just keel over dead when they hit 100mph? Or should you say bad drivers speeding are what kills?" He just ignored me and said " Have a nice day!" I thought I made my point though.
I'm afraid the notion you made to the cop was probably not the notion you intended. :-)
So the cops are now going to mail themselves tickets using this new system, right? Because I see more cops speeding on the tollways here in Illinois than I see civilian drivers.
Gotta love that double standard. How much do you think this company got paid to "exclude" any cars that would qualify as 5-0?
> Whenever a car enters its range, the Cordon will automatically generate two images: one from wide-angle view and one closeup shot of the vehicle's license plate. It's also capable of instantly measuring a car's speed and mapping its position, and can easily be synced with other databases via WiFi, 3G or WiMAX."
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
"Instantly" measuring the speed of each vehicle? How is that possible when speed, by definition, is a differential metric, requiring at least two measurements and a time interval?
Guessing the "detector" code looks like this:
using (SpeedMetric metricUnusedHaHa) {
foreach (Vehicle vehicle in photo) { vehicle.Speed = (vehicle.Type == VehicleType.Police ? SpeedLimit : SpeedLimit + 10 + rand.Next(9)); }
}
Cue Oprah in a police uniform: "You get a ticket! You get a ticket! You get a ticket! Everyone gets a ticket!"
Hmmm, their website says "Canadian-based". Yet these are Russian cops and Russian license plates in the photos. Wonder if they're offering some kind of wireless corruption technology as part of the package. Maybe an integrated e-banking solution, so you can wire funds straight to the officer's account without leaving your vehicle.
"It's also capable of instantly measuring a car's speed and mapping its position."
Maybe, like me, all the Slashdotters are too tired/hungover from Halloween weekend.
Arizona turned off its Janet Napalitano-implemented state highway photo radar system (we're sorry, rest of the country, for dumping her and her "screw privacy" views on you.) Despite the fearmongering that poured out from various pro-camera sources, the highways have NOT grown more dangerous without the cameras watching. If anything, this real world study is showing that the sheer drop in traffic volume due to the recession played a much larger role in accident reductions than the speed cameras ever did.
In the end, the cameras were proven to just be an ineffective way to collect a new sin tax from Arizona drivers. The rest of the nation should note of our experiences here and avoid falling into the same trap.
Bottom line: Speed cameras are nothing more than a sin tax that made some drivers feel good about themselves and gave them an avenue to get even with other more "aggressive" drivers.
BTW - People may still not like Jan Brewer (the governor of AZ) for various reasons (SB1070, etc.), but she clearly got it right when she cancelled that program.
But the authorities don't want 100% enforcement. They want people to keep on speeding so they can keep on bringing in that ticket revenue. If a few percent (Ideally the most dangerous few percent) of drivers get ticketed each month, no one's going to get worked up about speed limits. Bringing enforcement up to 100% would kill that cash cow almost immediately as drivers will slow down if they're guaranteed a ticket if they don't, and we'd see much more concerted actions to raise the limits to what people are doing out there anyway. Ironically, 100% enforcement would inevitably lead to less ticket revenue than they're getting now.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
"Go easy on the gas, speed racer".
How about going easy on police-statism, Big Brother?
just wondering how this compares to range/distance camera systems, somewhat popular in several european countries. they basically grab your plates upon entering some distance and upon exiting (often on highways/autobahns). if you appear at the exit faster than possible by going at the speed limit + some minimal excess amount, you got mail. kinda nasty, can't slow down for the picture only :)
Rich
If they're doing it for revenue, just be honest about it and call it the Randomly Inflicted Road Tax that it is.
If speeding tickets are about safety then how come I've *never* seen a tailgater, line crosser, or lots of other *very* dangerous drivers pulled over in several decades of driving? Just speeders.
Who sets the speeds? The same people fining you for exceeding them.
You're a genius and a sheep.
Obey.
They are just cashing in on it.
Think of all the revenue loss if they prevented speeding? Municipalities would go [more] broke.
They do not wish to prevent people from engaging in the act of speeding.
Everyone should screw them over, and NOT speed. That would be justice.
On the other hand they might find some 4th Amendment violating way of making up the revenues.
Highway robbers, I say, screw 'em!
Speed limits are a voluntary highway tax, not a safety measure. This new technology will just make the government more efficient at collecting revenue.
If they really cared about safety, I'd say it's well within the grasp of 21st century technology to simply prevent vehicles from exceeding the speed limit for any given set of coordinates. Nobody wants that technology, because the government needs you to hang yourself with the rope they give you, so they can generate revenue, and people want to feel "free."
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He wants his uncertainty principle back.
More traffic fatalities per 100 million miles vehicule driven than in other states. Double the number from say, california.
per 100 million miles, SC : 1,82
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/departments/nrd-30/ncsa/stsi/45_SC/2009/45_SC_2009.htm
per 100 million miles, CA : 0,95
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/departments/nrd-30/ncsa/stsi/6_CA/2009/6_CA_2009.htm
Speed limitation back in France is not only due to the road type but the environment too. For example going from Paris to Compiegne there are slices of 2*2 which are 90 kmh limited but drop to 50 kmh in town. Well used to be I haven't been there in a decade and a half.
If there is a city or a school or a crossing, even 2x3 lane will get seriously limited in speed, particularly if there were previous accident.
Those limitation are not tehre to "generate money" or "haphazardly". The problem is , people get angry seeing a 50 kmh or puzzled but never ask the Civil Road engineering departement *WHY* the speed limit on a 2*3 is 50 kmh. In my case, I did ask out of curiosity and the result I got are mentionned above. I have yet to see a stretch of road with low speed for no good reason. True the reason might not be known for your average car owner which would rather overspeed or swear under his breath than ask. But they are usually there.
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People *IGNORING* those limit and not paying attention generate most of those crash (baring the imponderable). Look it up some of the link are provided in the most moded up posts.
Quote "The limit feels too low, so you start to do other things (e.g. tailgate, make more lane changes, whatever) to try and bring the state or arousal back to a level you feel comfortable with. Or you stick to the limit and nod-off due to boredom. Crunch." such people should not be allowed to posses a car if they can't respect the local road law. Sorry saying one get bored or want to go above the limit is no excuse. You got a dangerous instrument in your hand and endanger other people. Don't want to respect the speed limit ? Go the FUCK on a ring circuit and speed there. But get off the road used by the common public, moron. I bet your are the typical fucktard which pass me with double the limited speed in city because I am going *only* at the 30 kmh.
Actual office present and pulling over a vehicle doesn't imply speed camera, it implies handheld radar.
So I don't know what you think is good about a big wobbly bag of human error sometimes with a bad attitude hand holding a precision instrument that has many failure modes and then using his digression at issuing you an infringement notice.
When enforcing a rule the enforcement methods should be consistent between cases. In this fixed and mobile speed cameras trump hand written tickets many times over. But maybe I'm just bitter because I'm a young man with a beard and not a young teary eyed blond with boobs larger than brains, and am thus more likely to get issued a ticket once pulled over.
Bah ... it doesn't bother me, as long as these cameras still miss cars travelling at over 170 mph
First of all: If you don't want to be fined, obey the speed limits. No ifs, whens and buts - just do it.
Now, I'm sure most of us agree that a lot of traffic regulations are made by people who clearly don't get out much. If you have a stretch of road where everybody drives faster than the limit, it's quite obvious that the road is made for a higher speed than what's posted. Now, there's two basic reasons for a certain speed limit: Standards and special reasons. Standard rules should not be. They should be a guideline when determining the limit, not the generic one-size-fits-all limit. The special reasons usually include school zones and residential areas. But that's the easy, cheap and incorrect way of 'protecting the children'.
The right way is traffic lights, fences, pedestrian bridges or tunnels. Because a child should never occur on a busy thoroughfare. Running a child down going 35 or even just 20 mph is still going to hurt it. Reducing the speed limit instead of doing it the right way is a bad way to save a buck. Children will still be run over and the occasional speeder will most likely kill someone.
I don't remember who originally suggested it (back in the 60s-70s I think), but this idea is still very good: All long distance roads should be in tunnels when intersecting any form of settlement. These roads should facilitate auto-driving so the drivers can relax while packing the traffic optimally. The surface roads within settlements are 10 mph max and you shouldn't have have to drive more than ½ mile from surfacing from the tunnels to get to your destination. Most people would have underground parking, either a simple private garage (like we have on the surface today, just underground) or some shared parking as many businesses in downtown areas already have today. This way, the children are safe to play outside, even on the streets, and we don't have to fill every square inch between homes with roads and fast moving cars that will hurt children at some point.
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
If they really cared about speeding, they would prevent it with throttles and/or audible warnings. (Yes, there are issues to be worked out there, but not insurmountable.) But no. They really care about collecting lots of fines, and being able to pull people over if they don't like the look of them.
People *IGNORING* those [limits] and not paying attention generate most of those [crashes] ([barring] the imponderable)
Bingo. A lack of observation leads to a lack of planning leads to increased risk.
such people should not be allowed to [possess] a car if they can't respect the local road law.
Then no one should be allowed to possess a motor vehicle, the law is absolute and everyone breaks it. Speeding is a specific offence written into law (in my country at least).
Sorry saying one get bored or want to go above the limit is no excuse.
It's not about "want", it's about "will" and human nature - everyone has an arousal state they are comfortable with and we do what we can to adjust the environment to suit that. You can be as pious as you like, but you can't escape your basic nature. This is why making the environment "feel" more dangerous works. Did you know Italy increase the limits to try and improve road safety? I have yet to see the stats to know if it worked. Interesting idea though and sort of ties in with what is seen on the unrestricted autobahns.
Don't want to respect the speed limit ? Go the FUCK on a ring circuit and speed there.
I agree with that, and this is deffo the case if one wants to race. Why people feel the need to do race/traffic light drag when using a circuit/strip is dirt cheap and much safer beats the hell out of me.
I bet [you] are the typical fucktard [who passes] pass me [at] double the [speed limit] in [the] city because I am going *only* at the 30 [km/h limit].
Nice ad hominem, really helps your case. I do my utmost not to speed in urban areas although I do not claim perfection (no one is perfect). All the points on my license are now expired (I deserved them when I got them). But am I some kind of born again angel? No. Show me someone who says they are and I'll show you a hypocrite with a massively over-inflated opinion of their own abilities.
I've even taken advanced training and, if you've not done it, I can thoroughly recommend it. Just beware of the observers with a god-complex and find a new group if they are all like that. Also buy a copy of the police driver's handbook (there's various one available depending on vehicle type and where you live) - a real eye opener.
If you wish to debate further, I'm happy to do so; but only if you keep a civil tongue in your head and post under a registered account. If you believe in what you say, person up and put your name to it.
>> Actual office present and pulling over a vehicle doesn't imply speed camera, it implies handheld radar.
There are several methods of measuring vehicle speed that do not involve the use of radar.
In any case, nothing in your post is even remotely true. There are several methods of measuring speed that do not require radar. But, modern handheld and vehicle-mount radars are nearly idiot proof, and include telemetry and photo evidence of how they were used to capture the speed, so any user error can be determined in court (although most defendants do not know how to file a discovery motion to get that evidence).
You would probably receive fewer tickets if you did not speed.
This also aptly describes the assholes that pass not one car when there is finally an opening, but THREE OR FOUR at time, not even knowing or caring what lies ahead of the slow vehicle. *This* is what gets people killed, but based on your tone, I suspect you also dabble in the fine sport of being ahead of everyone else.
Victoria Australia has 99+%* speed limit compliance on some highways and its accident count has been steady for a while and the deaths per distance driver has increased in step with the speed limit compliance. This year was on track for being worse than last year except the police decided to stop writing tickets as a protest for more money which resulted in an increase in speed and a drop in the accident rate.
They run a "Wipe off five" ads here which came from badly done report on crash rates out of South Australia university* that forget to take into account increased traffic density increasing accident rates. They claim by going just 5 km/h over the limit doubles the chance of an accident*. What they don't say is that is true for about 25 km/hr over the limit (as per Solomon quoted elsewhere here). They didn't point out that slowing down everyone increase tail gating which is something like 4000 times more likely to cause a death*.
Of course using traffic from Adelaide for any other city is like using traffic data from Billings Montana for Los Angles, Rome or Cairo.
Victoria currently has about 350 people a year die in traffic accidents*. World wide trends in stats show that number is somewhere between 20 and 100 high than it should be*. I figure the "wipe off five" campaign is killing an extra 30 people a year.
They use the distance over time cameras between Sydney and Melbourne in Victoria and have for years. The police stopped counting a number of single victim accidents in the road stats as well. Apparently stressing out drivers so bad they have a stroke and kill other people doesn't count as a "road accident" anymore since it was a "medical problem"
* data can be found on VicRoad's annual reports and crashstats web sites and backed up references found in a wonderful bit of fiction published by the Victorian Auditor-General.
That only means that they would lower speed limits or increase other tickets until profits are back up.
you know who the driver is [or] you are driving it
Hypothetically:
If I have a wife and a teenager who're both allowed to use the family car (fill it up before you bring it back) and I'm not at home 24 hours a day, no, I don't know who the driver is when your fancy camera took my car's picture. Too bad that picture doesn't show who the driver was, hmm?
And I won't do your detective work for you, officer (a.k.a. go asking everyone to try to find out who was driving it).
And you can't charge me for a crime I didn't commit, and if I did commit it, you'll have to have some evidence because I'm not testifying against myself.
And I very politely just told you to go fuck yourself, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. Have a nice day, officer.
Come back with a picture showing who the driver was.
In any case, nothing in your post is even remotely true. There are several methods of measuring speed that do not require radar.
Yet the biggest stock of speed detecting devices in pretty much every police department around the world is the handheld radar. Their faults are many and you can google those if you want. Sure I'm more than happy for vehicle mounted cameras or other technologies. I'm a big proponent of fixed speed cameras and police doing whatever is necessary to stop some of the lunatics on the road.
I will not ever endorse a system with a fail human element in it, or a system which needs to be used very carefully in a controlled set of circumstances.
Actually just the other day there was news of a report which showed that judges are more lenient just after lunchtime when taking on parole cases. Thanks but not thanks. I'd rather be ticketed by a machine, not by a person. I'd rather rely on not speeding than good speaking skills to get me out of a ticket.
You would probably receive fewer tickets if you did not speed.
Wouldn't know. From a sample size of zero I don't have much to go by.