First of all I haven't seen any benchmarks yet, but the 1.2 gig tbird is probably going to be on pace with the 1.4gig P4. Add the fact that it can't dual and the tbirds soon will then there is more trouble in Intel land. So they tell us its going to be another 6-9 months to get the dualed up? Ouch. Good luck Intel, you're gonna need it.
Thin clients at booths ...
on
eLection '04
·
· Score: 1
Replace every voting booth with a thin client that is connected to one server at the polling location. You can use a fully redundent backup of the server's database to preserve the data. Each thin client can run off of a flash hard drive. My perfect example would be the iopener. I think that would be the perfect device for this. You could probably create a cheaper device if you so choose by making it with a smaller screen. As all you need to do is display a few names at a time it shouldn't be a problem. The entry wouldn't be from a keyboard but just a modified input device with say 10-15 keys depending on what UI functionality you wish to include. The process of voting would be much quicker so you might not even need as many "booths" as before but it would require a relatively large investment in materials. It would then be easy to close the polls and immediately know the result. The database from each polling station would report to a main county server every X minutes to add some more redundancy and security to the system. At the end you have fully verified accurate count of the vote. Everyone would still be forced to come out to the polls, but thats how it should be. Its not the way you have to vote that should change just the method of the ballots and ballot collection that should.
Btw all these servers would NOT be connected to the internet to protect against any kind of hack.
The stupid 19000 double punched ballots thing is really getting on my nerves. In the 1996 election there were 15000 !!! double punched ballots in Palm Beach County! I hate the fact that people assume conspiracy at every turn without looking at history. History shows that Buchanen has been popular in Palm Beach County and that they consistenly double punch their ballots. Neither is different this year. Also when they first predicted a win for Gore in the state of Florida the polls were still open in the Panhandle and Bush was actually leading in the votes that had been counted. The only fraud I see that has been commited is that of the voters in the Panhandle that walked away when they were told by the television that their votes didn't matter. That is the true injustice and I think this entire thing would be over by now (in Bush's favor) had the TV stations keep their damn mouths' closed and let the people vote. They couldn't wait to call Florida, you could see they all wanted to call florida and there was absolutely no reason to do so especially with Bush up in the limited number of votes counted. I think the people of florida should be sueing the television stations instead of the government.
Wow, that really explains allot. Thanks for this info. Where did you find this? I doubt the media would ever want to mention something like this that would take away some of the drama of the 'fraud'. If they had 15000 registered Reform Party members then 3400 votes is kind of LOW, not high. Could you find anywhere the ammount of those 15000 that voted and who they voted for? Any exit polls for that?
Apparently font and layout issues on ballots caused about 2000 seniors in Palm Beach with less then 20/20 vision to vote for Buchanen instead of Gore. They showed the ballots, and it is definitely confusing.
This is rediculous. I heard there were dozens of people complaining about this not 2000. I think this number is wishfull thinking by the Gore camp hoping they can complain and press on even if they lose by a small margin. If you look at the votes for Buchanan he didn't get many votes at all and I sincerely doubt 2000 of the ones he got were from old people that can't read anymore. Maybe there should be a eye test before elections now huh? Please give it up. If you vote for the wrong person you probably shouldn't be voting in first place.
At about 2:30am Eastern Time Cnn and about every other TV station has declared Bush the winner after very narrowly winning in his brother's state of Florida.
If programmers complain:
Get a boxload of toys, hand out to programmers, repeat if needed.
If programmers don't complain:
See above
So true, so true. I would love if they gave me a new toy to play with every week or two. I need some Yo-Yos and some foam balls and any other thing throw around
The future is lighter/faster machines. You don't neccessarily want them smaller because we want the big screens. I have to have at lease a 14" screen on a laptop before i can really use the thing. A screen that size will dwarf the power consumption of the cpu and therefore the transmetta thing is a moot point. They might be nice for small hand held devices, but for computers they are essentially useless. Its a nice science project but can we please move on already? This this is going to be slower than anything Intel or AMD has out on the market or even Cyrix for that matter and Intel and AMD are already gearing for much faster CPU's as we speak. If we want a cool running/ fast cpu get a G4. Those things are pretty sweet and a hell of alot faster than any processor Crusoe is gonna make. I think I'm officially sick of/. I've liked this place for a long time, but I haven't really enjoyed many topics in quite some time. Has all the good news just dissapeared and been replaced with this sheet or is it/.'s fault ? I dunno...
Maybe they decided they were powerful enough to warrent the switch. You save some power with the switch but they aren't even as fast as Celerons and most laptops are needing to be faster and faster these days. They really are desktop replacements nowadays and not travelling toys and as such need more MHz and speed.
What kind of politician is he? You have to have an answer for everything. You can't abstain. Just one more reason not to vote for this guy, he doesn't even bother to answer the questions asked of him. Every answer he gave sounds like it came out of their campaign pamphlet and they didn't really spend any time on this reply.
Id would have nothing to lose if people put out poor benchmarks of their software. MS would have lots to lose if people started posting bad benchmarks for SQL server. No one buys Quake becuase Quake gets 5 more fps than UT. Its not the point of performance with games. With Databases its "theoretically" all about performance. Thus bad benchmarks floating around can hurt business and these things sell for quite a bit more than any game I've seen.
The thing i hate most is irrelevent comparisons, and this sir is one. Games != Databases PERIOD !!!
He'll state MS's benchmarks then downplay them as invalid and turn around and tout his benchmarks. Thats rediculous and just silly. This whole database war is ugly and I don't particularly care about it but Oracle is playing just as dirty if not more so than MS. I really hate their stupid 96% of fortunes e50 run oracle or whatever that commercial says. Who cares? Thats like saying 96% of fortunes e50 run notepad. That doesn't make notepad any better than anything else, just that its being used somewhere in that company. Uggh... i think i've seen enough MS bashing for one day, then this comes along. Thanks/.
"Well, y'd have to be running some program as stupid as Outlook, which runs arbitrary executable attachments, inside your supposedly "clean environment". I can't imagine a competent UNIX sysadmin would set things up this way.
It doesn't matter what OS you're running or what Email proggy you use if the person is dumb enough to run random executables.
It may take a little extra work to run it in *nix but if the guy really wants to look at that p0rn.exe they will find a way to run it.
What they need to do is just find the employee that ran said stupid trojan and fire his ass, or do something worse like make him work on securing their network.
Ummm, this is very usefull at all. First of all the "value" system they tested had very good everything but processor. It had great RAM a great Harddrive amoung other things. Not to mention they then test it vs. a PIII 1000. My point is why bother? A usefull test would be to buy some crap emachines computer and test it with and without the Geforce2 and see just how big a difference it is. The machine they tested was no more of a value pc than any Dell computer. Sharky has some good reviews sometimes, but this was just a waste of my time and everyone elses I'm sure. No kidding its going to be slower with a CII600 in there rather than a PIII, wow I'm surprised. But if you want to test "value" pc's then at least test with a value pc against another value pc. Not some toned down pc vs a suped up one. Worthless...
I currently have a PIII500Mhz, I think it is pretty fast and have not found any games I can't run with it. That makes you wonder what you'd do with a 1.5 P4. Probably pretty much the same thing. I could use some extra crispyness when playing divx movies, but aside from that I'd be more happy with extra storage space. I don't think I would notice the extra speed in day to day usage if it was put in my PC. I found the difference between 233 Mhz (my previous pc) and 500 Mhz already undetectable for most of my apps.
I completely agree. The one big thing in performance I did notice however is going from a ATA/33 harddrive to a ATA/100. That was the largest (noticable) performance gain I've seen in a while with all the MHz floating around, you need a way to feed the silly thing.
We get better processors that are faster and faster. I don't care if AMD or INTEL has the faster processor, just that they keep getting faster in general. The changes in the core for the next generation of both of these guys are going to be a good thing. I just hope we don't get to the point where they splinter too bad that we need different software compiles for each one. As long as they stay compatible then we all win. If they don't then one or the other company is going to eventaully die out and I would have to put my money on INTEL walking over AMD just because of namesake and production capability.
You totally miss the point. If taxpayer money is being used to fund the computer and the access, then the government has every right to dictate what acceptable use of that resource is. You want to surf for things blocked by your library or school? Get your own damn computer and ISP, don't expect me and everyone else to pay for it.
School and library funded computers should be used for research purposes, and using filtering software to do that is a reasonable approach. (Common sense should also come into it -- a student should be able to request the filter be disbaled to reach a site normally blocked if there is a good reason behind it.)
On the other hand, Gore's approach really is creepy -- compel ISP's to provide an ability to track users so that parents can snoop on their kid's activites? It ain't censorship, but it is draconian.
Remember, it's one thing to say that government resources have restrictions, it's quite another for the government to force private industry into doing its will, no matter how good the intention.
I absolutly agree with what you said. Bush's plan is common sense. Maybe some people want to go to the library to check out the goat sex websites but they should do that on their own time and their own dime. Everything I've heard Gore talk about, however, has a bloating effect on the government. I would think they would need even more gov't stooges to enforce this ISP based content collection. I'm sick of his antics, where does he even come up with this stuff? I think he should fire whatever advisor came up with this ISP plan, if he did it himself he should just go home now and never run for office again. Does he even know the technology behind this? This isn't a quick fix like Bush's library access thing. This would take alot of work and money and it would cost us the people more money (either in the form of taxes or rate hike from ISP's). I don't like either of these guys, but i can't understand why it is Bush that is getting stuck with the "not so smart" label when Gore comes up with stuff like this.
Look at this list - a veritable smorgasbord of undesirable influences and destructive tendencies, ready to crash our economy and subvert our morals. I think it's perfectly obvious that the Internet isn't something we want around at all, and I demand that our next president take full responsibility for thoroughly dismantling it in a timely manner.
You say this in jest (i think), but really the internet is not a good place for young children for the most part. There are good things like email and some forms of chat that are good. Most things though are not meant for the eyes of children. If i had a 5 year old i wouldn't let them online at all, but most parents use the comptuer and the internet as their new babysitter. I swear alot of parents look for anything and everything to do their jobs for them. I was lucky my parents didn't just sit me in front of the tv and walk off, but I know alot of kids parents that did. Now with the internet even more parents are doing the same thing. Only problem being that the content on the tv is very limited and not all _that_ harmful, but the contect on the internet is nearly infinite and the content is certainly objectionable for younger children.
You think that a console game system is just as good as a PC. *sigh* If you run servers, they should be on a completely seperate machine that your personal computer
I really don't think i ever said that. I don't want to turn my pc into a console but that doesn't mean i think consoles are as good as my pc. Especially since it is such a fast computer. My point is that by doing this selfbooting game your eliminating alot of the benifits of the pc and basically making it a console with a keyboard, which is why those new consoles have usb slots btw (they'll have keyboards soon if not already). I do have a second computer btw which is better than the PIII450 that you apparently use. At this point I essentially use it as my game console but only for some games. Most I still like to use my main machine for.
We can already buy game consoles. Why turn our pc into one? I like the fact that i can minimize my games and go chat or do something else without having to restart the game or my computer. I don't want to have to turn it off to play a game. This might help for those with slower machines that can't handle all the background services and the game, but really i don't need to worry about that. I need my uptime especially since I run servers (ftp or web) alot of the time. I paid alot of money for my computer and I'm not turning it into a glorified game console. I can get one of those for 200 bucks.
This isn't going to save the universities any money at all. It'll likely cost more than upgrading and expanding the labs. They'll need more support and instructors for the laptops than they would need lab supervisors. I think the ideal computer policy for universities is to put a computer lab in every dorm and staff it with the local residents that can get a discount on their room and board if they work in the lab. The best way for students to learn to use computers is from other more technically inclined students that wouldn't mind sitting in a lab a couple of hours a day playing diablo or whatever. If you put the lab in the dorm you have restricted access and can therefore allow it to stay open more often, even 24hours a day if you so chose. I think the biggest problem with campus labs are that they are only open at certain times and they aren't really consistent (at least where i went). If you have a small lab in each dorm the support will come easily from other students that are much more willing to walk down the hall to oversee a lab than going half way across campus to sit in a large lab. Its all about personal attention =) This laptop plan is just flawed from every angle i can see. From Money, Effectiveness, to Utility. Costs more and doesn't work for most students, what Art history major _needs_ a laptop let alone a cs major. woo hoo now i can program in the park. yeah right. whats the point ??
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First of all I haven't seen any benchmarks yet, but the 1.2 gig tbird is probably going to be on pace with the 1.4gig P4. Add the fact that it can't dual and the tbirds soon will then there is more trouble in Intel land. So they tell us its going to be another 6-9 months to get the dualed up? Ouch. Good luck Intel, you're gonna need it.
Replace every voting booth with a thin client that is connected to one server at the polling location. You can use a fully redundent backup of the server's database to preserve the data. Each thin client can run off of a flash hard drive. My perfect example would be the iopener. I think that would be the perfect device for this. You could probably create a cheaper device if you so choose by making it with a smaller screen. As all you need to do is display a few names at a time it shouldn't be a problem. The entry wouldn't be from a keyboard but just a modified input device with say 10-15 keys depending on what UI functionality you wish to include. The process of voting would be much quicker so you might not even need as many "booths" as before but it would require a relatively large investment in materials. It would then be easy to close the polls and immediately know the result. The database from each polling station would report to a main county server every X minutes to add some more redundancy and security to the system. At the end you have fully verified accurate count of the vote. Everyone would still be forced to come out to the polls, but thats how it should be. Its not the way you have to vote that should change just the method of the ballots and ballot collection that should. Btw all these servers would NOT be connected to the internet to protect against any kind of hack.
The stupid 19000 double punched ballots thing is really getting on my nerves. In the 1996 election there were 15000 !!! double punched ballots in Palm Beach County! I hate the fact that people assume conspiracy at every turn without looking at history. History shows that Buchanen has been popular in Palm Beach County and that they consistenly double punch their ballots. Neither is different this year. Also when they first predicted a win for Gore in the state of Florida the polls were still open in the Panhandle and Bush was actually leading in the votes that had been counted. The only fraud I see that has been commited is that of the voters in the Panhandle that walked away when they were told by the television that their votes didn't matter. That is the true injustice and I think this entire thing would be over by now (in Bush's favor) had the TV stations keep their damn mouths' closed and let the people vote. They couldn't wait to call Florida, you could see they all wanted to call florida and there was absolutely no reason to do so especially with Bush up in the limited number of votes counted. I think the people of florida should be sueing the television stations instead of the government.
Wow, that really explains allot. Thanks for this info. Where did you find this? I doubt the media would ever want to mention something like this that would take away some of the drama of the 'fraud'. If they had 15000 registered Reform Party members then 3400 votes is kind of LOW, not high. Could you find anywhere the ammount of those 15000 that voted and who they voted for? Any exit polls for that?
Vote by Religion %(Gore\Bush)
Protestant 45 \ 53
Catholic 45 \ 52
Other 56 \ 39
None 68 \ 24
Vote by Education %(Gore\Bush)
No H.S. Degree 50\47
High School Graduate 58\40
Some College 49\48
College Graduate 39\57
Post-Graduate Degree 46\51
I would make some snide remarks but I'm sure you can already imagine.
Apparently font and layout issues on ballots caused about 2000 seniors in Palm Beach with less then 20/20 vision to vote for Buchanen instead of Gore. They showed the ballots, and it is definitely confusing.
This is rediculous. I heard there were dozens of people complaining about this not 2000. I think this number is wishfull thinking by the Gore camp hoping they can complain and press on even if they lose by a small margin. If you look at the votes for Buchanan he didn't get many votes at all and I sincerely doubt 2000 of the ones he got were from old people that can't read anymore. Maybe there should be a eye test before elections now huh? Please give it up. If you vote for the wrong person you probably shouldn't be voting in first place.
At about 2:30am Eastern Time Cnn and about every other TV station has declared Bush the winner after very narrowly winning in his brother's state of Florida.
If programmers complain:
Get a boxload of toys, hand out to programmers, repeat if needed.
If programmers don't complain:
See above
So true, so true. I would love if they gave me a new toy to play with every week or two. I need some Yo-Yos and some foam balls and any other thing throw around
I thought it said "Coders say yes to telecommuting and no to high pings".
The future is lighter/faster machines. You don't neccessarily want them smaller because we want the big screens. I have to have at lease a 14" screen on a laptop before i can really use the thing. A screen that size will dwarf the power consumption of the cpu and therefore the transmetta thing is a moot point. They might be nice for small hand held devices, but for computers they are essentially useless. Its a nice science project but can we please move on already? This this is going to be slower than anything Intel or AMD has out on the market or even Cyrix for that matter and Intel and AMD are already gearing for much faster CPU's as we speak. If we want a cool running/ fast cpu get a G4. Those things are pretty sweet and a hell of alot faster than any processor Crusoe is gonna make. I think I'm officially sick of /. I've liked this place for a long time, but I haven't really enjoyed many topics in quite some time. Has all the good news just dissapeared and been replaced with this sheet or is it /.'s fault ? I dunno ...
Maybe they decided they were powerful enough to warrent the switch. You save some power with the switch but they aren't even as fast as Celerons and most laptops are needing to be faster and faster these days. They really are desktop replacements nowadays and not travelling toys and as such need more MHz and speed.
What kind of politician is he? You have to have an answer for everything. You can't abstain. Just one more reason not to vote for this guy, he doesn't even bother to answer the questions asked of him. Every answer he gave sounds like it came out of their campaign pamphlet and they didn't really spend any time on this reply.
Id would have nothing to lose if people put out poor benchmarks of their software. MS would have lots to lose if people started posting bad benchmarks for SQL server. No one buys Quake becuase Quake gets 5 more fps than UT. Its not the point of performance with games. With Databases its "theoretically" all about performance. Thus bad benchmarks floating around can hurt business and these things sell for quite a bit more than any game I've seen.
The thing i hate most is irrelevent comparisons, and this sir is one. Games != Databases PERIOD !!!
He'll state MS's benchmarks then downplay them as invalid and turn around and tout his benchmarks. Thats rediculous and just silly. This whole database war is ugly and I don't particularly care about it but Oracle is playing just as dirty if not more so than MS. I really hate their stupid 96% of fortunes e50 run oracle or whatever that commercial says. Who cares? Thats like saying 96% of fortunes e50 run notepad. That doesn't make notepad any better than anything else, just that its being used somewhere in that company. Uggh ... i think i've seen enough MS bashing for one day, then this comes along. Thanks /.
"Hackers huh? Hopefully they'll fix some bugs before they give it back. "
Hopefully they'll start with the bug in Outlook that allows these stupid trojans to get easily into their network.
"Well, y'd have to be running some program as stupid as Outlook, which runs arbitrary executable attachments, inside your supposedly "clean environment". I can't imagine a competent UNIX sysadmin would set things up this way.
It doesn't matter what OS you're running or what Email proggy you use if the person is dumb enough to run random executables.
It may take a little extra work to run it in *nix but if the guy really wants to look at that p0rn.exe they will find a way to run it.
What they need to do is just find the employee that ran said stupid trojan and fire his ass, or do something worse like make him work on securing their network.
Ummm, this is very usefull at all. First of all the "value" system they tested had very good everything but processor. It had great RAM a great Harddrive amoung other things. Not to mention they then test it vs. a PIII 1000. My point is why bother? A usefull test would be to buy some crap emachines computer and test it with and without the Geforce2 and see just how big a difference it is. The machine they tested was no more of a value pc than any Dell computer. Sharky has some good reviews sometimes, but this was just a waste of my time and everyone elses I'm sure. No kidding its going to be slower with a CII600 in there rather than a PIII, wow I'm surprised. But if you want to test "value" pc's then at least test with a value pc against another value pc. Not some toned down pc vs a suped up one. Worthless...
I currently have a PIII500Mhz, I think it is pretty fast and have not found any games I can't run with it. That makes you wonder what you'd do with a 1.5 P4. Probably pretty much the same thing. I could use some extra crispyness when playing divx movies, but aside from that I'd be more happy with extra storage space. I don't think I would notice the extra speed in day to day usage if it was put in my PC. I found the difference between 233 Mhz (my previous pc) and 500 Mhz already undetectable for most of my apps.
I completely agree. The one big thing in performance I did notice however is going from a ATA/33 harddrive to a ATA/100. That was the largest (noticable) performance gain I've seen in a while with all the MHz floating around, you need a way to feed the silly thing.
US
We get better processors that are faster and faster. I don't care if AMD or INTEL has the faster processor, just that they keep getting faster in general. The changes in the core for the next generation of both of these guys are going to be a good thing. I just hope we don't get to the point where they splinter too bad that we need different software compiles for each one. As long as they stay compatible then we all win. If they don't then one or the other company is going to eventaully die out and I would have to put my money on INTEL walking over AMD just because of namesake and production capability.
You totally miss the point. If taxpayer money is being used to fund the computer and the access, then the government has every right to dictate what acceptable use of that resource is. You want to surf for things blocked by your library or school? Get your own damn computer and ISP, don't expect me and everyone else to pay for it. School and library funded computers should be used for research purposes, and using filtering software to do that is a reasonable approach. (Common sense should also come into it -- a student should be able to request the filter be disbaled to reach a site normally blocked if there is a good reason behind it.) On the other hand, Gore's approach really is creepy -- compel ISP's to provide an ability to track users so that parents can snoop on their kid's activites? It ain't censorship, but it is draconian. Remember, it's one thing to say that government resources have restrictions, it's quite another for the government to force private industry into doing its will, no matter how good the intention.
I absolutly agree with what you said. Bush's plan is common sense. Maybe some people want to go to the library to check out the goat sex websites but they should do that on their own time and their own dime. Everything I've heard Gore talk about, however, has a bloating effect on the government. I would think they would need even more gov't stooges to enforce this ISP based content collection. I'm sick of his antics, where does he even come up with this stuff? I think he should fire whatever advisor came up with this ISP plan, if he did it himself he should just go home now and never run for office again. Does he even know the technology behind this? This isn't a quick fix like Bush's library access thing. This would take alot of work and money and it would cost us the people more money (either in the form of taxes or rate hike from ISP's). I don't like either of these guys, but i can't understand why it is Bush that is getting stuck with the "not so smart" label when Gore comes up with stuff like this.
Look at this list - a veritable smorgasbord of undesirable influences and destructive tendencies, ready to crash our economy and subvert our morals. I think it's perfectly obvious that the Internet isn't something we want around at all, and I demand that our next president take full responsibility for thoroughly dismantling it in a timely manner.
You say this in jest (i think), but really the internet is not a good place for young children for the most part. There are good things like email and some forms of chat that are good. Most things though are not meant for the eyes of children. If i had a 5 year old i wouldn't let them online at all, but most parents use the comptuer and the internet as their new babysitter. I swear alot of parents look for anything and everything to do their jobs for them. I was lucky my parents didn't just sit me in front of the tv and walk off, but I know alot of kids parents that did. Now with the internet even more parents are doing the same thing. Only problem being that the content on the tv is very limited and not all _that_ harmful, but the contect on the internet is nearly infinite and the content is certainly objectionable for younger children.
You think that a console game system is just as good as a PC. *sigh* If you run servers, they should be on a completely seperate machine that your personal computer
I really don't think i ever said that. I don't want to turn my pc into a console but that doesn't mean i think consoles are as good as my pc. Especially since it is such a fast computer. My point is that by doing this selfbooting game your eliminating alot of the benifits of the pc and basically making it a console with a keyboard, which is why those new consoles have usb slots btw (they'll have keyboards soon if not already). I do have a second computer btw which is better than the PIII450 that you apparently use. At this point I essentially use it as my game console but only for some games. Most I still like to use my main machine for.
We can already buy game consoles. Why turn our pc into one? I like the fact that i can minimize my games and go chat or do something else without having to restart the game or my computer. I don't want to have to turn it off to play a game. This might help for those with slower machines that can't handle all the background services and the game, but really i don't need to worry about that. I need my uptime especially since I run servers (ftp or web) alot of the time. I paid alot of money for my computer and I'm not turning it into a glorified game console. I can get one of those for 200 bucks.
This isn't going to save the universities any money at all. It'll likely cost more than upgrading and expanding the labs. They'll need more support and instructors for the laptops than they would need lab supervisors. I think the ideal computer policy for universities is to put a computer lab in every dorm and staff it with the local residents that can get a discount on their room and board if they work in the lab. The best way for students to learn to use computers is from other more technically inclined students that wouldn't mind sitting in a lab a couple of hours a day playing diablo or whatever. If you put the lab in the dorm you have restricted access and can therefore allow it to stay open more often, even 24hours a day if you so chose. I think the biggest problem with campus labs are that they are only open at certain times and they aren't really consistent (at least where i went). If you have a small lab in each dorm the support will come easily from other students that are much more willing to walk down the hall to oversee a lab than going half way across campus to sit in a large lab. Its all about personal attention =) This laptop plan is just flawed from every angle i can see. From Money, Effectiveness, to Utility. Costs more and doesn't work for most students, what Art history major _needs_ a laptop let alone a cs major. woo hoo now i can program in the park. yeah right. whats the point ??