An undercover detective who buys drugs from dealers is supplying said dealers with money to get more drugs. The detectives are part of the problem. But, in a larger sense, they are part of the solution. I'm not an undercover detective for anyone other than myself, and my only drive was curiousity.
Last I knew, most of the gold came from hacking accounts and stealing it. It's a lot faster to shard and sell off the inventories of multiple characters than it is to go out and earn the money. If it were easy enough to earn the money, people wouldn't be buying it in the first place.
There are numerous ways they get gold. Hacking accounts and disenchanting people's gear and stealing their gold is not even remotely close to the way they get most of their stuff. I happen to play on a server with a very tight knit and small Horde faction population. People talk. I can't remember the last time I heard of ANYBODY having their account hacked and I know a large percentage of the active players on the server (you know, the players who would actually have a good amount of value in their accounts). That most of their money comes from hacked accounts is simply not true.
The CGFs people joke about (you know, the ones that run their characters up, speak poor English, and then farm all day long) may make some of that, but not much... Several days to get to the point where you can farm, then maybe three drops an hour for 7-10g each? Pitiful compared to hacking just one account. Probably why I haven't seen them around much--that business model died out.
These people are excellent at what they do. You don't see them around much because outdoor farming is not the most effective method of making gold -- farming instances with aoe spells is better. Using that method it is quite easy to make 500g per day. It's certainly not unthinkable to make 1000g per day. Which translates into, at today's prices, about fifty to one hundred American dollars. Tax free. From China. Per day. I don't know about you, but the chance to make $1,500 - $3000 American per month in China for playing a game seems pretty damned appealing. That's more than many Americans make working FULL TIME in jobs they HATE. Especially considering it's all tax free!
The demand is there. The desire to make money is too. The combination works well.
I think it's evidence that something is right with the game. If people didn't want these thing so badly, they wouldn't pay real money for them. The game is good enough that it creates the desire to spend real money on its virtual items. If these items were easy for anyone to get they wouldn't be perceived as so valuable. I'm not savvy enough in macroeconomics to go deeply into it, but commoditization, saturation, supply and demand, and free market concepts seem to apply here. (they probably aren't even part of macroeconomics, I just pulled some nice sounding stuff out of my a$$).
I'll admit it, I had to wikipedia (if google can be a verb then so can wikipedia, although it's funny that I used google to find the wiki, lol) Pete to find what this meant.
Still, having trouble making the connection. You're talking about his... ahh.. website visiting choices?
Up until now, since the release of WoW, gold spam has followed a nearly expontential curve. At first it was almost zero. Slowly over time it built up. Recently it exploded and you couldn't go five minutes without getting a whisper from some character named something like "Fahzhizdaj" asking you to go to their website and buy gold or powerleveling etc. After patch 2.1.0 spam has not disappeared. It has morphed into different forms. Instead of receiving private messages from spammers they have resorted to different means. Now you cannot run through the major cities without getting bombarded with local messages from the "say" or "yell" channels.
This means that the gold spammer literally had to run a character from the starting town, at low level, to the major city. While not difficult, it certainly added an extra step to the spammers' setup. And once that person spams in a major city they will be reported much faster than if a million players all got individual private messages. People in the game in a common area will communicate with each other about stuff like this. The spammers can't possibly last long.
So you might be wondering, where does a spammer get an account? Most people think they use trial accounts, or they buy accounts. Of course, both are usable. Trial accounts are locked down for many things, but they aren't locked down to the local 'say' channel. So camping a trial account spammer at the auction house in a major city will net a pretty big payoff in terms of impact vs. time spent, especially since the trial account is free.
Spammers also get accounts in other ways too. People who purchase power-leveling services, for example, are at risk of allowing their account to be compromised to a spammer. People who go to websites claiming they have WoW exploits/cheats are at risk of using a keylogger and compromising their account. Then there's stolen credit cards and false account numbers. The actual numbers on all of these are impossible to determine for me. But nevertheless, these are some ways the spammers do it.
The real crux of the issue though is that spammers, and more generally, gold selling, wouldn't even exist if people didn't buy the services! Because demand is so high it is not reasonable to expect in-game ads to disappear completely. But what Blizzard has done is definitely a giant step in the right direction -- IF you aren't one of the large minority of people who have actually purchased gold. If you are, you probably liked the spam sometimes, because usually it provides up-to-the-minute price info and increases competition between the sellers.
You might be wondering: does one run the risk of getting scammed purchasing gold from these people?
I didn't know the answer to that, so, I looked into it deeper. I went to their sites. There were numerous ones advertised but, after getting deeper into each site, eventually I was taken to a specific site almost every time: gold4power.com Of the eight or so websites I visited, every one of them led me to this one site. And it wouldn't amaze me if Peons4Hire was actually behind this one.
I have no idea who runs this site, but I wanted to see how legit they were. So I sent them a small amount of money through paypal and, lo and behold, 30 minutes later, the gold was in my mailbox. I figure at least they aren't just scamming people completely.
Anyway, spam is bad, yada yada. Get used to it, or download a mod like SpamSentry and put a stop to it.
We just had an article on 30 years of Star Wars, a movie saga that started with some of the most sophisticated computer generated effects ever seen in its time. And it didn't rely on them like a crutch like this.. other movie.
Now, a movie that came 5 years later is being touted as one that opened the doors to computer generated effects as art and a compelling storytelling platform. Someone's not blowing their own horn I hope?
And, seriously, a movie that sucked hard compared to A New Hope.
Mod me down, but the premise behind Tron was no more believable (less, to me) than a mysterious "force" that permeates the universe that can be bent to human will with enough effort and skill -- and definitely not as cool.
Honestly, I was so disgusted I didn't even bother. But you're right, that's a couple hundred bucks I threw away.
I still have it.. it's probably out of warranty now (dunno how long the man. warr. is). Maybe I'll send it in anyway and put the money in savings for the new GPS-enabled device I want to get next.
You mean Windows Mobile 5? This is not WinCE of old.
My experience thus far with WM: - I can run multiple applications at once, such as Media Player, Excel Mobile, Internet Explorer, etc with no noticable slowdown until I really get out of hand. Which, honestly, is to be expected. The same goes for using a PC. - The device has only locked up 2 times since I've had it, and both times I can't honestly attribute it to the OS. Seemed more like a hardware lock because both times it happened I pressed a sequence of buttons I can only describe as unusual. And it resets quickly with the stylus. - Compatilibity and 3rd party programs community. There's a lot of stuff out there for a windows mobile powered device. Games, apps, utilities, new skins, themes, you name it, someone's made it.
But hey, if you don't like Windows Mobile, get one of the ones that runs PalmOS or something. There's a ton of those out there too. Or get a Crackberry. The beauty: Your choice.
You missed my point. My playback device is not at fault. I just find that if I make a playlist I truly like then it fits in a 4gb chip with ease. It's not that the iPod is doing something wrong, it's just providing me more than I need, and more than I'll ever use. So I turned the excess into useful functions and combined them all into one device.
don't like the idea of being that accessible and when I'm out, I want to be disconnected from the phone / cyberworld.
Hey, I'm the same way. When I don't want to be bothered I turn on flight mode with two clicks. Problem solved. It saves battery too.
I also don't need a PDA; my head organizes my appointments just fine...
I don't know how many appointments/birthdays/holidays/etc you have to remember, but I have at least a hundred per year. And that number is growing. I'm no mnemonic genius either, so I appreciate saving space in the ol' cranium for other things.
If you just plain do not want to have a cell phone at all, then this definitely isn't the solution for you. Personally, my cell phone is my only phone. With long-distance plans my carrier is fairly inexpensive and I don't talk long-distance that much anyway. So I don't spend money on two phones. And there's no denying the emergency-availability that a cell phone provides.
I have a headphone usb adapter that fits any normal set of headphones and plugs into the phone's usb port. It's very handy and was about $5 on ebay.
I have the normal battery, but I rarely IM on the road. The majority of my IM'ing is done where I am near either a) car jack or b) outlet so I can plug it in.
My battery life is usually a few days of normal use (I'm not on the phone a whole lot, and I don't IM a lot on battery power). The extra-sized battery is nice but it does stick out a bit. I haven't needed to buy one yet.
I imagine for a real power user battery life could be an issue. My advice is just plug it in every chance you get. If that's still not enough, your battery might be getting old, and it may be time for a new one.
This is not the issue in a nutshell. This doesn't mean shit.
Just for example: if we didn't have violent video games:
1) Psycho plays outside with friends in violent games like tackle football, "smear the queer", or any number of the violent activities children, teens and adults engage in. 2) Pyscho likes what he did in these games. 3) Pyscho does it outside of the games. It gets worse, and Psycho eventually kills someone.
The same could be applied to reading books. Hey I know, we should ban any book with violence because some psycho might read it!
The only real thing you said is "some people are psycho".
Stating the obvious is not helping the situation -- with people blaming video games when there's an infinite number of other things in life that can set somebody off.
We need to be able to figure out who has violent tendencies, who is psycho, and make them cease to exist before they harm others. And that, as an issue, both logisticall and ethically, is not too easy to fit into any 'nutshell'.
None of these devices interest me anymore. I used to own a 30gb iPod video.
The screen died after two months. The backlight wouldn't turn on anymore.
Instead of getting a new iPod (ebay to me: gg) I recently purchased an HTC Hermes (Cingular 8525) for slightly more than the cost of a new iPod.
It's serves as my:
-Mp3 player (I have 8gb of storage and I'm telling you, when I pick the songs I really want, instead of the thousands I don't care about at all, I have PLENTY of storage) -Digital camera for everyday use (if I want greater than 1600x1200 I use my Canon, usually 1600x1200 is plenty) -Cell phone -PDA running windows mobile; it synchronizes all my appointments and reminds me in advance of upcoming birthdays/holidays -Instant Messenger and e-mail (has built-in WiFI G)
I got all that for trading the storage space for movies on a 2.5" screen and music that I am constantly hitting next to get to a better song.
Please tell me, for pure mp3 players/storage devices, where's the appeal now?
Quote from the attorney who was trying to fight the legislation, during the final court session he said, "That's the stupidest fucking idea I've heard since I've been at Microsoft." The courtroom fell silent, even the judge was speechless.
TLF
P.S. Yes it's overdone but... fuck, I have nothing else to say to this than Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?
I remember reading the column Antigravity in SciAm one month.. it was about mob mentality.
I can't remember the details well, but the general idea was that there was a sunken submarine and two ways were used to find it.
The first was a sort of mob mentality method. A bunch of brilliant minds were brought together and asked to come up with one location they thought the submarine could be found at.
The second was an interesting twist on the mob mentality. They asked each person individually where they thought the sub would be found. They then averaged all the locations together and used the answer as the final location.
Guess what? The first group was way, way off on finding the sub.
The second? They were within less than a miles of the exact location.
I leave interpretation of these reults as they relate to this article up to you.
I'm not against my STATE ID doing exactly what you said. I'm against a FEDERAL one though. If the Feds want to connect the states together, so be it. But screw them if they want to start blurring the line between State and Federal. We have states for a reason.
The only reason I see no need for a National ID type system is that there's no reason we can't efficiently connect the state systems together and keep our unique state images. Also, I personally like the fact that when I go to the Lower 48 and show my Alaska ID it spurs conversation. And vice versa, when people come here and show theirs.
I don't want to look just like everyone else. I may not be a unique snowflake (thx Tyler) but I'll be damned if I am going to let some politicians force me into a Federal program that's completely fucking useless.
This whole idea is an example of people doing totally unneccesary shit just so they can say they did something. Hey, Feds, leave us the hell alone. We didn't ask for this shit.
Different beast or not it's still an important part of World of Warcraft. For many players they only do PvE to get to max level so they can PvP from then on.
And I wouldn't agree that PvP on a PvE server is pointless. Battlegrounds, Arenas (instanced and outdoor), and outdoor PvP objectives are still fun on a PvE server. Not to mention that you can still raid faction cities on a PvE server. It happens on mine. For example: One time a few friends and I grouped up and went to the Alliance outpost Honor Hold in Hellfire Peninsula. We flagged PvP via/pvp and proceeded to slaughter the town NPC guards. Well, it wasn't long before there were a bunch of Alliance players lurking about. At first they were just watching (a lot of them were level 59-61 and I was a level 70 Warrior with an epic 2h... I could kill them easily in two hits) but soon they reached a critical mass. One of them tried to attack us and the rest joined in. At that point the game was on. Our small group of players managed to slay wave after wave of the low level Alliance. Then the level 70 Alliance started to arrive, after hearing of the situation. Things turned against us and we found ourselves vastly outnumbered. We had no choice to end the assault.
But all through the evolution of that day's attack it was fun. It felt like a real attack on their outpost. Especially since they all started getting PvP flags and we could really start to hinder their normal play.
Anyway, point is, you can call PvP on a PvE server pointless. But you'd be wrong.
Mom: Jimmy were you looking at porn?! Kid: I really couldn't say! The site was caught in superposition. Mom: Don't take that tone with me! What is that, some new porno move? Kid: No, I swear, it's... Mom: Go to your room! Kid: But Mom!!! Mom: I said GO!
WoW might be easy on the surface, but if you want to get right down to it if you want to be the best of the best it's not easy by any stretch of the imagination. Take it from someone who plays PvP. Skill is a requirement if you want to win. Sure, it's easy to level to 60, even 70, but that's the tip of the iceberg that is WoW. TLF
Slashdot Mirror
The demand is there. The desire to make money is too. The combination works well.
TLF
I think it's evidence that something is right with the game. If people didn't want these thing so badly, they wouldn't pay real money for them. The game is good enough that it creates the desire to spend real money on its virtual items. If these items were easy for anyone to get they wouldn't be perceived as so valuable. I'm not savvy enough in macroeconomics to go deeply into it, but commoditization, saturation, supply and demand, and free market concepts seem to apply here. (they probably aren't even part of macroeconomics, I just pulled some nice sounding stuff out of my a$$).
TLF
Or? Why does it have to be or? Why can't "both" work? Research costs money! :)
TLF
I'll admit it, I had to wikipedia (if google can be a verb then so can wikipedia, although it's funny that I used google to find the wiki, lol) Pete to find what this meant.
Still, having trouble making the connection. You're talking about his... ahh.. website visiting choices?
Enlighten me.
I've been playing WoW since beta.
Up until now, since the release of WoW, gold spam has followed a nearly expontential curve. At first it was almost zero. Slowly over time it built up. Recently it exploded and you couldn't go five minutes without getting a whisper from some character named something like "Fahzhizdaj" asking you to go to their website and buy gold or powerleveling etc. After patch 2.1.0 spam has not disappeared. It has morphed into different forms. Instead of receiving private messages from spammers they have resorted to different means. Now you cannot run through the major cities without getting bombarded with local messages from the "say" or "yell" channels.
This means that the gold spammer literally had to run a character from the starting town, at low level, to the major city. While not difficult, it certainly added an extra step to the spammers' setup. And once that person spams in a major city they will be reported much faster than if a million players all got individual private messages. People in the game in a common area will communicate with each other about stuff like this. The spammers can't possibly last long.
So you might be wondering, where does a spammer get an account? Most people think they use trial accounts, or they buy accounts. Of course, both are usable. Trial accounts are locked down for many things, but they aren't locked down to the local 'say' channel. So camping a trial account spammer at the auction house in a major city will net a pretty big payoff in terms of impact vs. time spent, especially since the trial account is free.
Spammers also get accounts in other ways too. People who purchase power-leveling services, for example, are at risk of allowing their account to be compromised to a spammer. People who go to websites claiming they have WoW exploits/cheats are at risk of using a keylogger and compromising their account. Then there's stolen credit cards and false account numbers. The actual numbers on all of these are impossible to determine for me. But nevertheless, these are some ways the spammers do it.
The real crux of the issue though is that spammers, and more generally, gold selling, wouldn't even exist if people didn't buy the services! Because demand is so high it is not reasonable to expect in-game ads to disappear completely. But what Blizzard has done is definitely a giant step in the right direction -- IF you aren't one of the large minority of people who have actually purchased gold. If you are, you probably liked the spam sometimes, because usually it provides up-to-the-minute price info and increases competition between the sellers.
You might be wondering: does one run the risk of getting scammed purchasing gold from these people?
I didn't know the answer to that, so, I looked into it deeper. I went to their sites. There were numerous ones advertised but, after getting deeper into each site, eventually I was taken to a specific site almost every time: gold4power.com Of the eight or so websites I visited, every one of them led me to this one site. And it wouldn't amaze me if Peons4Hire was actually behind this one.
I have no idea who runs this site, but I wanted to see how legit they were. So I sent them a small amount of money through paypal and, lo and behold, 30 minutes later, the gold was in my mailbox. I figure at least they aren't just scamming people completely.
Anyway, spam is bad, yada yada. Get used to it, or download a mod like SpamSentry and put a stop to it.
TLF
I was reading the actual forum post on this.
Blizzard posters are often called "Blue" because their text/name/posts are blue colored.
So, a person said "AWESOME! What are the charges?"
Blue: silence.
Does Blizzard have any real legal recourse here?
TLF
Starts with Cowboy and ends with Neal!
and, the obligatory,
In Soviet Russia, President elects YOU!
Proceed with your downmods! I have 5 points available. For everyone that gives me a -1 I shall mod the stupidest comments I can find +1 insightful!
Might as well throw in a few more....
!!!
TLF
I am now going off the caffeine for the day. Thank you for visiting.
We just had an article on 30 years of Star Wars, a movie saga that started with some of the most sophisticated computer generated effects ever seen in its time. And it didn't rely on them like a crutch like this.. other movie.
Now, a movie that came 5 years later is being touted as one that opened the doors to computer generated effects as art and a compelling storytelling platform. Someone's not blowing their own horn I hope?
And, seriously, a movie that sucked hard compared to A New Hope.
Mod me down, but the premise behind Tron was no more believable (less, to me) than a mysterious "force" that permeates the universe that can be bent to human will with enough effort and skill -- and definitely not as cool.
TLF
Are we forgetting that I bought an iPod first? :)
TLF
Honestly, I was so disgusted I didn't even bother. But you're right, that's a couple hundred bucks I threw away.
I still have it.. it's probably out of warranty now (dunno how long the man. warr. is). Maybe I'll send it in anyway and put the money in savings for the new GPS-enabled device I want to get next.
TLF
You mean Windows Mobile 5? This is not WinCE of old.
My experience thus far with WM:
- I can run multiple applications at once, such as Media Player, Excel Mobile, Internet Explorer, etc with no noticable slowdown until I really get out of hand. Which, honestly, is to be expected. The same goes for using a PC.
- The device has only locked up 2 times since I've had it, and both times I can't honestly attribute it to the OS. Seemed more like a hardware lock because both times it happened I pressed a sequence of buttons I can only describe as unusual. And it resets quickly with the stylus.
- Compatilibity and 3rd party programs community. There's a lot of stuff out there for a windows mobile powered device. Games, apps, utilities, new skins, themes, you name it, someone's made it.
But hey, if you don't like Windows Mobile, get one of the ones that runs PalmOS or something. There's a ton of those out there too. Or get a Crackberry. The beauty: Your choice.
TLF
To be fair, I'm not under contract with my 8525. I bought it unlocked from E-bay and swapped out the SIM card. I am month-to-month with my carrier.
If I ever lose my carrier (I won't) I can still have all the other features of the 8525.
TLF
You missed my point. My playback device is not at fault. I just find that if I make a playlist I truly like then it fits in a 4gb chip with ease. It's not that the iPod is doing something wrong, it's just providing me more than I need, and more than I'll ever use. So I turned the excess into useful functions and combined them all into one device.
I'm extremely happy with it.
TLF
If you just plain do not want to have a cell phone at all, then this definitely isn't the solution for you. Personally, my cell phone is my only phone. With long-distance plans my carrier is fairly inexpensive and I don't talk long-distance that much anyway. So I don't spend money on two phones. And there's no denying the emergency-availability that a cell phone provides.
TLF
I have a headphone usb adapter that fits any normal set of headphones and plugs into the phone's usb port. It's very handy and was about $5 on ebay.
I have the normal battery, but I rarely IM on the road. The majority of my IM'ing is done where I am near either a) car jack or b) outlet so I can plug it in.
My battery life is usually a few days of normal use (I'm not on the phone a whole lot, and I don't IM a lot on battery power). The extra-sized battery is nice but it does stick out a bit. I haven't needed to buy one yet.
I imagine for a real power user battery life could be an issue. My advice is just plug it in every chance you get. If that's still not enough, your battery might be getting old, and it may be time for a new one.
TLF
This is not the issue in a nutshell. This doesn't mean shit.
Just for example: if we didn't have violent video games:
1) Psycho plays outside with friends in violent games like tackle football, "smear the queer", or any number of the violent activities children, teens and adults engage in.
2) Pyscho likes what he did in these games.
3) Pyscho does it outside of the games. It gets worse, and Psycho eventually kills someone.
The same could be applied to reading books. Hey I know, we should ban any book with violence because some psycho might read it!
The only real thing you said is "some people are psycho".
Stating the obvious is not helping the situation -- with people blaming video games when there's an infinite number of other things in life that can set somebody off.
We need to be able to figure out who has violent tendencies, who is psycho, and make them cease to exist before they harm others. And that, as an issue, both logisticall and ethically, is not too easy to fit into any 'nutshell'.
TLF
None of these devices interest me anymore. I used to own a 30gb iPod video.
The screen died after two months. The backlight wouldn't turn on anymore.
Instead of getting a new iPod (ebay to me: gg) I recently purchased an HTC Hermes (Cingular 8525) for slightly more than the cost of a new iPod.
It's serves as my:
-Mp3 player (I have 8gb of storage and I'm telling you, when I pick the songs I really want, instead of the thousands I don't care about at all, I have PLENTY of storage)
-Digital camera for everyday use (if I want greater than 1600x1200 I use my Canon, usually 1600x1200 is plenty)
-Cell phone
-PDA running windows mobile; it synchronizes all my appointments and reminds me in advance of upcoming birthdays/holidays
-Instant Messenger and e-mail (has built-in WiFI G)
I got all that for trading the storage space for movies on a 2.5" screen and music that I am constantly hitting next to get to a better song.
Please tell me, for pure mp3 players/storage devices, where's the appeal now?
TLF
Quote from the attorney who was trying to fight the legislation, during the final court session he said, "That's the stupidest fucking idea I've heard since I've been at Microsoft." The courtroom fell silent, even the judge was speechless.
TLF
P.S. Yes it's overdone but... fuck, I have nothing else to say to this than Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?
I remember reading the column Antigravity in SciAm one month.. it was about mob mentality.
I can't remember the details well, but the general idea was that there was a sunken submarine and two ways were used to find it.
The first was a sort of mob mentality method. A bunch of brilliant minds were brought together and asked to come up with one location they thought the submarine could be found at.
The second was an interesting twist on the mob mentality. They asked each person individually where they thought the sub would be found. They then averaged all the locations together and used the answer as the final location.
Guess what? The first group was way, way off on finding the sub.
The second? They were within less than a miles of the exact location.
I leave interpretation of these reults as they relate to this article up to you.
TLF
The guy is clearly having trouble forming coherent sentences.
He means to say that totalitarian governments have historically tended towards having a national ID, while Americans resist the idea.
Chalk this up to the poor state of politics in the US. We r teh smartxz lawmayhkers!
TLF
I'm not against my STATE ID doing exactly what you said. I'm against a FEDERAL one though. If the Feds want to connect the states together, so be it. But screw them if they want to start blurring the line between State and Federal. We have states for a reason.
The only reason I see no need for a National ID type system is that there's no reason we can't efficiently connect the state systems together and keep our unique state images. Also, I personally like the fact that when I go to the Lower 48 and show my Alaska ID it spurs conversation. And vice versa, when people come here and show theirs.
I don't want to look just like everyone else. I may not be a unique snowflake (thx Tyler) but I'll be damned if I am going to let some politicians force me into a Federal program that's completely fucking useless.
This whole idea is an example of people doing totally unneccesary shit just so they can say they did something. Hey, Feds, leave us the hell alone. We didn't ask for this shit.
TLF
Different beast or not it's still an important part of World of Warcraft. For many players they only do PvE to get to max level so they can PvP from then on.
/pvp and proceeded to slaughter the town NPC guards. Well, it wasn't long before there were a bunch of Alliance players lurking about. At first they were just watching (a lot of them were level 59-61 and I was a level 70 Warrior with an epic 2h... I could kill them easily in two hits) but soon they reached a critical mass. One of them tried to attack us and the rest joined in. At that point the game was on. Our small group of players managed to slay wave after wave of the low level Alliance. Then the level 70 Alliance started to arrive, after hearing of the situation. Things turned against us and we found ourselves vastly outnumbered. We had no choice to end the assault.
And I wouldn't agree that PvP on a PvE server is pointless. Battlegrounds, Arenas (instanced and outdoor), and outdoor PvP objectives are still fun on a PvE server. Not to mention that you can still raid faction cities on a PvE server. It happens on mine. For example: One time a few friends and I grouped up and went to the Alliance outpost Honor Hold in Hellfire Peninsula. We flagged PvP via
But all through the evolution of that day's attack it was fun. It felt like a real attack on their outpost. Especially since they all started getting PvP flags and we could really start to hinder their normal play.
Anyway, point is, you can call PvP on a PvE server pointless. But you'd be wrong.
TLF
Mom: Jimmy were you looking at porn?!
Kid: I really couldn't say! The site was caught in superposition.
Mom: Don't take that tone with me! What is that, some new porno move?
Kid: No, I swear, it's...
Mom: Go to your room!
Kid: But Mom!!!
Mom: I said GO!
TLF
WoW might be easy on the surface, but if you want to get right down to it if you want to be the best of the best it's not easy by any stretch of the imagination. Take it from someone who plays PvP. Skill is a requirement if you want to win. Sure, it's easy to level to 60, even 70, but that's the tip of the iceberg that is WoW.
TLF