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Two US States Restrict Used CD Sales
DrBenway sends us to Ars Technica for a report that Florida and Utah have placed draconian restrictions on the sale of used music CDs; Wisconsin and Rhode Island may soon follow suit. In Florida, stores have to hold on to CDs for 30 days before they can sell them — for store credit only, not cash. Quoting: "No, you won't spend any time in jail, but you'll certainly feel like a criminal once the local record shop makes copies of all of your identifying information and even collects your fingerprints. Such is the state of affairs in Florida, which now has the dubious distinction of being so anal about the sale of used music CDs that record shops there are starting to get out of the business of dealing with used content because they don't want to pay a $10,000 bond for the 'right' to treat their customers like criminals."
Makes me glad I live in New York, where there are used CD stores everywhere and the stoned counterperson barely notices you.
Hey! Is this first post? I think it is! Umm... W00t?
NO CARRIER
So much for buying used CDs from some dude at a garage sale. Is the MAFIAA going to go after garage sales, too? Where does the witch hunt end?
I moved to Florida roughly 10 months ago. This is the first I have ever heard of this. I've been googling around trying to find a reference to this in any type of local news media and I can't. Nothing so far. Maybe I'm missing it, but it seems like something of this magnitude would garner some attention.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
This is really stupid.... fuck them. people will ignore this before you know it - wait, better make that "People are already ignoring this" then. ^_^
If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
The article says "The Federal Trade Commission has scrutinized the music industry for putting unfair pressures on retailers who sell used CDs"... This seems to me to be similar unfair pressure, but this time it's coming from state governments. Is this sort of law even enforceable?
in 1995 when I still bought CD's. Let me know when they do this to used MP3's.
Why does it figure that one of the dumbest laws I've heard of in a long time would start there?
Florida, well... I don't even need to describe the dumb things that go on down there.
Utah? They're best known for things like the "Clean Port 80" act (all internet porn should go on one port!), crazy anti-tech laws, "Yarro's Law" apparently passed at SCO's behest, and SCO, where we have Brent Hatch behind some of the crazy laws, not to mention their senator Orin Hatch and his crazy ideas.
Now, there are lots of nice folks in both states, of course, but any state that allows SCO folk to help write laws, well, I have to think they're positively Utarded.
until the fascists outlaw that. I swear, I have long been a proponent of paying for my music. There are several out of print titles I've paid top dollar for on ebay and in the used section of the local record store. But if this shit becomes the norm, I'll start downloading everything for free, lawsuits be damned. Fuck these sons-of-bitches.
"The legislation is supposed to stop the sale of counterfeit and/or stolen music CDs"
This is clearly irrelevant, since they should then apply this to the sale of _any_ second-hand goods - any of which _might_ be stolen or counterfeit.
Even if they did that, what is the point of "in-store credit"? Will they then stipulate that said credit can _only_ be used for the purchase of _new_ media, rather than other second-hand media?
Gosh, I'm glad I only live in a US colony (Australia) instead of mainland US! It seems the RIAA-pists won't be happy until there's an income tax component for "expected music/media consumption."
Garth Brooks was pushing royalties for used CD sales way back when I had a shop that sold used CDs. This is right before he quit doing shit, so I guess he was just wanting some extra royalties on his old stuff. I thought it was a money grab then, and it is now.
Since I have always only bought used CDs, I guess now I will need to start downloading and burning all my music instead. No way I'm paying $20 for 2 good songs, and I don't want an ipod.
Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
So, except for the only store credit part, they're making them follow the same laws that pawn shops must follow here in Colorado? That is, valid ID and fingerprints are required as well as a 30-day holding period for all items. Working in a pawn shop, I can point out that CDs, DVDs, and video games (VHS is dead) and other common but low-value items are rarely even investigated by the police. Proving the ownership of such a generic type of item is futile. Un-serialized items in general are, really. Despite the annoyance, I still fully support the restrictions pawn shops are given and we -- the honest brokers -- fully try to insure that stolen items are returned to their rightful owners or are at-least unsellable.
EBay people, EBay. Sell and buy ONLY on the Internet. Let them trace that the bastards...
So punish for the innocent for no wrongdoing? Try again... and no, you can't try the same answer again.
If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
... just look for DRM.
Then it can't be bootleged..... right??
Do you realise that when you buy a second hand album that the music industry thinks you're stealing that music?
After all, you've acquired a copy of the songs, but the artist has recieved no compensation from you.
*sighs* These people just do not understnad some conecpts integral to society (reuse, second hand sales, etc).
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
You Americans are crazy!
is telling. I think this affects me - while I don't often buy used CDs (sorry - my desires are too damn eclectic to be satisfied locally), I want the option. Does it affect others here, or are we all buying them off ebay, buying the tracks off iTunes, or simply downloading them?
Is this the RIAA trying to curb rights? Is this Garth's revenge? Or is it something less? And, anybody know where in Florida the police were investigating? Is there any way to have this looked at by the media? I think most people would care if the local news did a nice little piece about how their hard-earned tax dollars were being spent making sure Johnny couldn't buy a used CD, rather than #insert EVERYBODYPANIC.h
Ars, thanks for bringing this up.
(and hey, someone else comment - I can't believe that so few people care)
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
And yet you can still buy a firearm at a gun show in Florida with no background check, and police must destroy records on gun sales within 48 hours and are prohibited from maintaining gun sale records that could be used for gun tracing and criminal investigations.
What THE HELL is wrong with this country???
...Entire Florida population last seen flocking for Bittorrent, Limewire, and points north.
I though these were CDs, not guns!
If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
Quote from the attorney who was trying to fight the legislation, during the final court session he said, "That's the stupidest fucking idea I've heard since I've been at Microsoft." The courtroom fell silent, even the judge was speechless.
TLF
P.S. Yes it's overdone but... fuck, I have nothing else to say to this than Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?
I do not respond to cowards. Especially anonymous ones.
They want your money any way they can get it. Inaccurate. They want your money every way they can get it.
I lived in Utah for 2 years and it's a very nice place. Far from a hellhole. Now the PEOPLE on the other hand....
Punish those evil doers who dare excersize their right to sell property under the US consitution.
Next we can ban selling and buying used cars. The exercise costs the auto industry billions of un-verifible money from potential revenue every year. Poor starving automotive engineers and CEO's work very hard to design and build the latest cars that are copyrighted under US law thanks to selling used cars.
Infact just about everything is copyrighted so we should just ban the sale of anything used. Think about how many jobs we could create!
Remember when you buy a car you do not own it. You only own a copy of the car that is based in some secret location at the company's headquarters. Just read the EULA for MS Windows if you do not believe me when purchasing only copies of material and not the actual products.
http://saveie6.com/
"...Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it..."
I haven't actually put a commercial CD into a drive in a year or more, and all the ones I still own are long since ripped. I was thinking about selling all my CDs, but then my ripped copies would be illegal, and I'm one of those weirdoes who actually likes to pay fairly for what they have. So what do I do if I don't want the clutter? Throw them all into a landfill?
It seems like the days of the used CD store are almost gone anyway. Despite the DRM politics, it's awfully convenient to buy online. And with CDs so easy to rip and resell, used CD stores are little more than rent-to-steal shops these days.
E pluribus unum
Now this debate can happen all over again.
For the record, I was buying back CDs at a used record store in Washington State in the early nineties. We required photo ID. We wrote the information on your photo ID in a Big Scary Book. After we bought your CDs, we held on to them for 30 days. Then, after 30 days, we typically sold them. And it was no big deal. Didn't hurt business, didn't scare customers. Didn't have a damn thing to do with filesharing (I don't believe the original Napster existed yet). We caught a decent number of CD thieves by matching sales of odd CDs to lists of stolen CDs. It worked to everyone's benefit except maybe the thieves.
By the way, it's Really Freaking Obvious when someone's selling stolen goods. Seriously. We're checking the lists of stolen CDs before they even walk out the door. Thieves are idiots, and not subtle idiots either.
These laws are similar. They include a fingerprint provision presumably to combat fake ID's. I think that bit is unneccessary and odious (because, in my experience, we were able to catch all of our fake-ID-using thieves because they kept coming back). It requires a business permit. Sigh, whatever. It requires trading for store credit rather than cash. That's stupid--people selling their old CDs hardly ever want store credit, even if the value of that store credit is more than the cash. Reason? People sell their old CDs with "I'll finally dump these old CDs" on their mind. Buying new CDs is typically not what they want to do. We offered trade or cash to people, and most chose cash.
So it's basically a dumber version of a law that has existed for over a decade in my state. Big freakin' deal.
Courtney Love has a nice article on her take on piracy etc.
Her view on the issue is that the music industry is a huge, profiteering middleman and artists are swindled by them. She's of the opinion that for an artist, more exposure, however it comes, is a good thing and will lead to people buying more stuff.
The music industry is whining just because they're being cut out from a direct experience between an artist and the listener.
The stated issue behind the restrictions on reselling CDs seems to be that they are a likely good to be stolen and resold. I suppose that this does make sense, and that CDs should have the same restrictions put on them that any other good sold in a pawnshop should.
But there seems to be hints that this is just a way for the recording industry to stop the reselling of CDs.
But there would have to be a closer studying of the legislation and the people backing it to find out which one is the real reason this is being pushed.
On the face of it, though, I find it a little unlikely that this is an anti-theft measure. Especially the part about "only to be used for store credit". It seems unfair to target CDs like this, when there are plenty of other things: cars, guns, jewelry, musical instruments, home electronics, sporting equipment, that are also likely targets of theft (I would think all of those named would be better targets for theft than CDs), but (AFAIK), there isn't any specific laws that say you can't sell your skis or guitar for cash.
Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
Now I have even MORE excuses not to buy cds! The RIAA just keeps making new excuses for me to not give them money every day...
*AHEM*
Ummm...you know I really would, but they closed down all the used cd stores and I can't afford to pay the price of an album just to listen to one good song....
How does that sound?
I AGREE COMPLETELY!!!
First those Republicans required those Parental Advisory stickers on CDs, then that Republican President signed the DMCA in law, now this. If those Republicans keep this up I'm moving to France!
All kinds of things get fenced. By the same logic, we should ban selling any used goods. That used VCR you just bought, why that could be the proceeds of a crime.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Just sick the tree huggers on them. All those CDs will just end up in landfille now, how wasteful! Perhaps we can get the greenies to help us this time...
today is spelling optional day.
Who sponsored the bills? Who were the biggest contributors? Is this a law enforcement driven thing or is "Big Media" attempting to stiffle the used media market to maximize their profits? What will this mean to Amazon.com?
Ok, so Florida is looney tunes. I'll grant you that. In most places though pawn shops, and a lot of general second hand stores, already require ID in order for you to sell them an item. That's hardly news. As for CDs, anyone who has run a college or community radio station will tell you that "missing" CDs are more than likely to show up at the local used record shop unless you've made a point of having a close relationship with them. CDs and DVDs are a favorite with petty thieves everywhere. Still, Florida is idiotic. Shame, since it looks so intelligent on CSI Miami...
Three Squirrels
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Does this affect on-line used CD trading sites like lala.com and swapacd.com?
Holy crap! The rest of the country is going to think Utah's even more back-woods hick-yokel inbreds than we already. It's really not that bad here, but Jebus, please, can we get a freaking sane law passed in this state, PLEASE???
You thundering moron. Wisconsin is run by the democrats, the idiot governor here doesn't trust good people to be honest and instead caves to criminals and the RIAA. Why don't you actually get some facts before spewing your partisan crap.
We've been (this) close, twice, to getting rid of the criminal Doyle, but for reasons dictated by emotion rather than logic, the idiot got elected and then reelected. Yet he trusts criminals to be the only ones armed, and the RIAA to dicate how we listen to our CDs. So, maybe, just maybe, you could look at the actual situation next time, before guessing that it's the eeevul Republicans' fault, mmmkay? Thanks awfully.
Just listen to local LIVE bands. If what's on the radio & CD's sucks, do something else entirely!
Do your own thing! THINK for yourself!
It's not your right to be entertained. If you don't enjoy something anymore, don't use or pay for it anymore! It doesn't give you a right to steal it!
What I'm hearing from a lot of losers that are in my generation:
"I cant live without being constantly entertained!! What will I do if I cant fill my Ipod and ears with music for infinity???"
Bunch of Ipod wearing, ADD havin', short attention spanned crybabies.
You don't have to be entertained constantly!!! Support your local artists directly!
Read a book! Write your congressman! Get involved in your local community!
Get to know your neighbors & find out who plays locally! Hanging out playing music is way more fun than buying music off ebay. Singing along with other people, in real life, gosh, what a concept.
Try to charge royalties on that one RIAA. Maybe you should patent standing around a burn-barrel singing.
- out
Steve
That will make people stop downloading music!
Oh, wait..
No.
It won't.
Duh.
Not Free SF Reader
You get what you deserve if you live in Utah and Florida.
I propose a compulsory license be required to play music that can be heard by more than one person, no headphones...pay a fee, driving with the windows down...pay a fee, take your boom box to the beach...pay an even bigger fee.
Seriously though, those who really want to do something about it shouldnt care. I stopped buying and downloading commercial music years ago, I listen to talk radio when im in the car and the only cd's I have bought have been from local bands at their shows. It was hard at first but I dont miss it anymore. My wife is slowly weaning herself as well. It was funny last year when the Grammy's came on TV and I realized I had never heard of 3/4 of the people announced as "performing".
The faster that the music industry can manage to piss off the ignorant masses the better. I think this move is great, its one that will affect the netless and clueless. I can only hope it expands to more states.
...just more profitable. In case you failed to notice, it is now government's job to make sure corporations can make as much money as possible. Thanks for playing.
Lies about crimes
this move is in part related to drug use.
I worked in retail management with a focus on loss prevention. The connection between hard-core drug addicts and reselling stolen multimedia was insane.
90% of the chronic offenders we prosecuted cited drug money as their motivation and the resellers in New England, my market, were often little more than enablers. One employee of a major reseller in the area told me 'off the record' that a guy we had busted recently came in several times a day for several MONTHS with DVD box-sets still shrink wrapped and stickered from one of our stores. When I asked why they didn't call us he just shrugged.
These new regulations are short-sighted and egregious, but it is possible the RIAA is not solely to blame. The war on drugs is still going on and from what I saw, shoplifting multimedia is a habit of choice for drug offenders.
Some numbers:
It was not unusual to see multimedia loss numbers from a single location at my former company top $100k for a single year. New box set titles @ the time I was doing this resold between 40-60 cents on the dollar within the first two weeks of release. So a single box-store multimedia outlet could have been subsidizing local criminals with an average of +/- $50k/year.
I don't like the new laws, but the RIAA is most likely not solely to blame.
Who do you think lobbies for these laws? Are the major labels somehow distinguished from the media? There is a reason copyright is among the most one-sided legislation in this nation.
Does it affect others here
I certainly don't buy music from the major labels. I'm not going to pay them to keep lobbying congress for draconian laws. I have considered buying used CDs but frankly the radio is more than enough for me.
Can't you just feel the freedom?
Engineering is the art of compromise.
In fact, this could be exactly what we need. This is clearly such a ludicrous measure that if it goes into law everywhere, the apathy-riddled consumer might actually sit up and notice. When average Jimbo down the street gets hit with fees and taxes and fingerprints and anal probes while trying to sell his old stash of CDs, there should at least be a little more awareness about what the RIAA f**kheads are trying to do. Hopefully, that will lead to consumer action and eventually enough agitation to overturn this measure and also place some iron clamps on what the RIAA can and cannot do.
In other words, the more ludicrous the little battles are, the better chance we have of winning the war. Now the lawyers here can strike me down.
An old-timer with old-timey ideas.
Put down your crack pipe and your beer bong and pay attention. It isn't just Republicans. It is the entire political class. Follow the money and you will see that it ends up on both sides of the aisle. And so does the origination and support of MAFIAA protective legislation.
Why does Slashdot only report only bad legislative news? Why don't they report all the good news? It's just like Iraq: the liberal media only focuses on the few (dozen) bombs that go off every day, while ignoring all the good news that is overflowing from there.
Why doesn't Slashdot report all the good news? Like the PATRIOT Act, and the USA Act (I am no lawyer so I haven't read them, but the names really tell me all I need to know). I am sick of people acting as if politicians don't always look after my best interests.
If you commies don't like our system, why don't you all go live in Afghanistan?!
Lies about crimes
That's so totally NOT our problem. Just don't buy CDs in those states. Make it the store's problem.
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
Welcome to FL, the land of crooks, thieves, corruption, scams, no child left behind, stolen elections, stupid politicians, and now criminal CD sales.
write your state congressmen and women. explain how stupid they are to do this sort of thing which is anti-consumer, anti-competitive, and anti-smart.
They're using their grammar skills there.
If the record companies really want to play this game, then I say let them. If, when i purchase a cd or DVD, I am only actually buying a license to view/listen to the content contained on it, not the actual disk itself (the media companies could argue that the media is free, and that they are retaining ownership of it, you are buying a license), then so be it. However, now that I own the license to use this particular arrangement of 1s and 0s, it is my right as a licensee to obtain it in any form that i see fit. I can fire up my favorite NNTP reader and download it. I can keep a copy of it on my ipod, on my work computer, on my friends computer, on my mt-daap server, in my car etc. Also, if at any point i decide that i don't want it any more, i can return the leased media storage device to the copyright holder, and have my license to use it revoked. For a full refund that is. It will become part of the cost of their business to provide us with the CDs/DVDs/Blue Ray Disks/Tapes/Mp3s/whateverthehellthemarketdemands.
k?
NewslilySocial News. No lolcats allowed.
>the idiot governor here doesn't trust good people to be honest and instead caves to criminals and the RIAA.
But you repeat yourself.
Yes, ladies and gentlemen, there is a loophole! Unfortunately, the law applies to retailers only! People can go to a CD swap meet or a flea-market and freely buy and sell CDs directly with other people; a process known as "person to person" in the parlance of the common folk; all (and I can't state this emphatically enough) without the benefit of oversight by the Recording and Music Industry, and the benevolent guidance of our friends therein! Intolerable! CD shows are wild-west open-air bizarres where rogue CD and DVD owners snicker at the laws and exchange used entertainment media as if they owned it! This outrageous behavior must be brought under control!
I did, ladies and gentlemen, mention the "person to person" aspect. May I remind my esteemed colleagues about the known threat to our families, our schools, our re-election financing, and our very way of life by the criminals, perverts, and terrorists that use these so-called "P2P" computer programs to exchange copyrighted material, 93% of which is pornography, over the computerized internet tube. Hooligans, drug-users one and all, and of the same ilk as these CD swappers!
I say it's high time we closed this loophole, and bring peace, justice, and accountability to these havens of immorality. The lash of reason must be brought to bear, and the firm hand of democracy must crush this evil trend before it destroys all that we have labored so hard to impose.
The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
Just about every student house on my street got broken in to while I was at university. The first thing that got taken, long before TVs and VCRs (this was ten years back) was CD collections.
For quick and easy theft, relatively little beats CDs. Just about any music store would take them and an average even as low as a buck a piece still made them almost as good as cash and something you could rely on finding at least a hundred bucks worth in most houses with a couple of students in them.
I'm guessing this has little to nothing to do with the RIAA (save maybe getting to twist someone else's knife) and everything to do with making theft a little more difficult.
Honestly, what really happens here? Your records get kept for a month. If it's not a theft, that's the end of it. Compared to how much it sucks losing a treasured music collection, I'd more than happily put up with that in exchange for it simply being a little harder for the bastards that break in. And that's before factoring in how many people really sell their expensive CDs for next to nothing vs. how many people get their collections ripped off.
...people still use CDs?
Oo
News to me.
If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
Parent is quite correct. Between McCallum and Doyle, Wisconsin has been going down the shitter in a hurry. Wisconsin needs Tommy Thompson back, a much loved governor who continually managed to keep the state running smoothly and properously. There is little doubt in my mind (and the minds of most Wisconsinites, I would imagine) that had he stayed on as governor, he would have dealt with the deficit with no trouble at all.
Oh, and he happens to be a Republican. Which is kind of amusing considering how Wisconsin always votes Democrat. But Wisconsinites liked Thompson, so he stayed in office until he took up the HHS position with Bush. He ran the state (and ran it well!) for nearly 15 years.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
But you repeat yourself.
Yeah, sorry about that. But his failings go so far beyond things like "I should be trusted to listen to my CDs however I want". He's one of these "Give the bad guy a 27th, 28th, and 29th chance, but don't give a law abiding citizen a first chance" kind of guys. Former defense attorney, what else can I say. Give me a non-lawyer or a prosecuting attorney any day for a politician, but this idiot has charm, charisma, and not a fucking clue.
Gubner Doyle, yeah, I know I have a file, try _thinking_ for once instead of basing your policy on how the polls tell you people want you to _feel_.
They hate used CD sales. Years ago they were demanding a percentage of used CD sales, claiming it was their right to have money for used CD sales.
Now they finally found a way.
And by the way, they found a way to stop those pesky independent CD sales at the same time too, didn't they?
I am a libertarian socialist myself. I am completely unrepresented.
This is ridiculous. I bet books will be next.
5-Year prison term for purchasing Harry Potter at a second hand book shop, anyone?
Considering that Florida is quite well known at least at the level of nudge, nudge wink, wink to be corrupt at the highest levels, run by the dumb relative of the unpopular draconian president and the front line for ballot manipulation experiments or "malfunctions", the answer should be quite clear.
That plus the note that an equally draconian law on the side of gun purchasers is also in place according to someone else in this thread.
I don't think it requires tin foil. Anyone who is unbiased and unhurried ought to find this enough cause to investigate. Obviously, the RIAA/MPAA paid one or more people very high in the Florida government to pass this law, and the NRA paid similar people to pass the gun law. (I refer to the quote that the police are prohibited from maintaining gun purchase records). While the gun law could be interpreted as valiantly protecting a constitutional right, Florida just doesn't strike me as the place that would do this first. It is much more the sort of place Microsoft would aim to bribe^H^H^H^H^Hlobby strongly.
In fact, it might even be interesting to correlate spending by Microsoft, the RIAA, MPAA, and NRA state by state or legislator by legislator. Follow the money. With the discarding of ethics, rule of law and common sense by sycophants and cows since 911, money is obviously the only thing guiding the U.S. government in individual states or the nation at large. It seems extremely likely that a flow of money has driven this law to be created, in a similar way to the recent unveiling of such a flow of money to the top Canadian in charge of such laws.
Disclaimer: I do not buy CDs used or otherwise, seldom listen to music of my own, do not buy DVDs, and do not live in Florida or own a gun. However I live in Japan which has strong anti-gun laws, which I find more an effect of losing WWII than a natural answer to the gun problem. There are a lot of shops here that sell used CDs/DVDs although manufacturers have fought for some tax on that.
Who said anything about Wisconsin? Oh BTW, it sounds like you're also spouting one sided crap. BOTH parties are slaves to big biz and we're only to blame until we as Americans step up and say enough. It's a shame the unwashed masses don't care or are to wrapped up in "idol" and garbage like that. Home of the free? Pfft...please
I used to be with IT..now IT seems strange and scary to me.
"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
u-bend
I recall a similar effort 20 years ago when I was in college to shutdown used music sales - and/or collect royalties on the sales. I recall the local used music store in Blacksburg (can't recall the name) had posters and such urging people to get involved.
Other than cheese and the city of Madison, I don't know what Wisconsin is good for. They have elected Rep. James Senselessbrayer for how many years now? I guess he is finally going to take his toilet paper and go home. I suppose if there was a US Attorney who could do a better job of framing an innocent civil servant, Doyle could have been defeated in the last election.
That's why pawn shops take your name and your address (and your prints in some places) and have a list of serial numbers for when the cops come by - for that exact reason.
I'm not advocating the Florida law here, I think it's retarded, but I'm pointing out that there are already many restrictions on the sale of easily ripped-off used goods.
Tommy's brother Ed only got 10% in the election, running as a Libertarian. That would have been interesting had he won.
Buckle your ROFL belt, we're in for some LOLs.
What the hell is up, moderators? You mod this excerpt from the Declaration of Independence as "Funny," and mod another funny post as "troll"... Why are you guys moderating completely backwards?
It's funny to read all the comments and see who didn't bother reading the article because 1 out of 3 posts or so implies that the RIAA is behind this.
Maybe it's just the guilt coming out.
I worked for Rhino Video Games, a game trading company based out of Gainesville, Florida. In most major Florida counties, businesses that take in merchandice for some type of store credit are required to take information about the person. I know for a fact that Alachua, Jacksonville, Tampa, and I believe even Orlando do this. This is not limited to music cd's like the article implies. It is also done of the trading of video games, game systems, dvd's, you name it. They are required to do so because so much of that merchandise is stolen. Multiple times did I hear of officers coming into our stores and taking particular forms of suspects. This is not new and isn't as bad as they make it sound. Most of it is to allow them to track down criminals. Every trade in requires a fingerprint of some sort. They were all just stored at the business until the officers came or a set duration expired.
I will forever be a student.
The ultimate answer is really very simple. Don't buy music. At all. If enough people stop buying music then the RIAA will notice a drop in sales and might stop sucking at life. (That's called wishful thinking, but hey a guy can dream.) You don't need music like milk and bread. And there is always the radio.
Don't really care either way. Everything's getting ripped and stuffed on a thumbdrive. So it's either draconian DRM that makes everyone a criminal or it's a new business model for the record companies. End of story. You can argue the merits of it either way. I don't care, the CD is nearly done and there's nothing the state of Florida or the RIAA can do about it.
I was going to make some amusing quip about that...but then again, I'm a libertarian who believes in completely nationalizing the power grid.
A preposition is a terrible thing to end a sentence with.
...Only outlaws will have used CDs!
He's been worried about flagging CD sales since before he ever tried to have accused copyright violators' computers destroyed, but for some reason the profits he should be seeing from How His Glory Shines are still vanishing, as if down some Glory hole. Could it be that Orrin's music no longer resonates with today's youth? Could it be that the "Order" link at the top of his music webpage is broken, and nobody even noticed until some jerk on Slashdot decided to click it to look for more things to make fun of?
No. Of course not. It must be the counterfeit used CDs' fault.
I haven't bought a CD in four years, and I'm older than God. If I'm not buying them, I can't imagine who is. Actually the last one that came into the house was a DVD from my son, given as a birthday gift in November '05, and I wanted every single track that was on it plus the extras. It was a special exception. The only CD's I can envision buying now would be classical or rare, old jazz--but with the arrival on the scene of new turntables, the vinyl may yet emerge from the cellar.
My first question, anyway, is this: What is the difference between secondhand CD's and secondhand books? Should we be looking forward to having our reading controlled in the same way they want to control our music selections? Is it time to spend a paycheck at Thriftbooks just in case?
My second question is more technical: What does one need to know to intelligently purchase an "analog" tunes system these days? (I assume that would be turntable and some associated accoutrements. In the dark ages it would've involved pre-amps, amplifiers, speakers, etc.) If you have one, are there suggestions or references for ripping tracks off that treasured old vinyl to be played on something more portable like an ipod?
Taking the long view, this is just a symptom of how desperate the music mafia has become. It's another nail in their coffin. I'm not surprised that Utah is one of the states. You can apparently gull their legislature into enacting just about anything by playing on their paranoia.
"Here's what's happening. You're starting to drive like your Dad..." - Red Green
But if this shit becomes the norm, I'll start downloading everything for free, lawsuits be damned. Fuck these sons-of-bitches.
Nobody's holding a gun to your head saying, "LISTEN TO THESE MUSICIANS!", or "BUY COMPACT DISKS".
Go non-RIAA. Or better yet, go to a local concert or show. At least in my city, there's plenty of good stuff to check out, the cover charge is usually rather reasonable, and the bands probably see more of the money despite venue-friendly cover-charge-disbursement policies.
$20 for a CD of just the audio, or ~$5-8 for the full sound, feeling the thump of the drum set in your chest, the smells, the sounds, the spontaneity of a live show, the satisfaction that comes when you see a show where everything comes together, the social connection you may or may not form with your fellow audience members.
It's the deal of the century.
Please help metamoderate.
What bill number can we Wisconsinites use to complain about to our elected officials?
Sorry, but...
"[DMCA was] Passed on October 8, 1998 by a unanimous vote in the United States Senate and signed into law by President Bill Clinton on October 28, 1998."
It's called Sarcasm.
I was gonna say that I lived in Toronto, where there are also used CD stores everywhere, then feel all cocky about it ... then I remembered the Canadian government is charging a levy on blank CDs. Sigh.
I don't know if it's only audio cds or all of them but the US also has a tax on blank cds. And the money supposed to go to the RIAA.
FalconShould there be a Law?
This is already in effect here in Wisconsin, at least in Madison. I went to sell some of my old CDs and DVDs at a used CD/DVD store in Madison a couple of weeks ago and they require an ID for selling more than $20 worth of material. Since I was selling exactly 20$ worth of stuff they said I didn't need to show them my ID. When I asked them why they said it was for deterrence of theft.
Ceci n'est pas une sig.
O <---- Joke
O
/ | \
| You
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/ \
Harder baby...all night long. Punish me...Oh, yeah..Whip me!... That feels so good. More! More! Uh-Uh-UH AAAAH! OH LORDY! Oooohh....Yeeah.......Got a cigarette?
American Masochism is becoming a real turn on for me. It's definitely more entertaining than watching the Filipinos whip their own backs.
What?
FTA:
"New "pawn shop" laws are springing up across the United States that will make selling your used CDs at the local record shop something akin to getting arrested."
"The legislation is supposed to stop the sale of counterfeit and/or stolen music CDs, despite the fact that there has been no proof that this is a particularly pressing problem for record shops in general."
Well, if I was going to counterfeit CD's and sell them; that wouldn't happend at a pawn shop. There is more money to be made in retail ops. IMHO; this isn't to stop counterfeits; but something else.
It looks like college students will need to stick to blood plasma donations for beer money.
No objection here; makes it easier to catch a buzz.
I have bought a few CDs through Amazon.com used. I wonder if this could eventually eliminate that outlet for my $$$. I have enjoyed ~$6 shipped for 'very good' to 'like new' quality albums.
Ditto, corporate rationalism and living essentials don't mix well. Maybe we're Luxury Libertarians? I'm all for water, power, waste management, public transport and possibly even agriculture (fresh produce at least) to be either nationalised, or at the very least properly regulated.
I used to manage a GameStop here in Florida, and there were certainly restrictions on used media, but it wasn't quite as obnoxious as the article made it sound--but it was still obnoxious.
We didn't give cash because of the extra hoops we would have to jump through. It was only if we gave cash that we would be required to go through some of the more painful steps, such as holding the items for 30 days. Giving store credit, we only had to record the name, address, and driver's license number... no fingerprints (I don't recall a fingerprint requirement at all... maybe the author was conflating the two states' laws).
And it was definitely a problem. We had guys who would come in with books of game DVDs from Blockbuster within a couple of days of their release. We couldn't do anything about it, though, because Blockbuster does sell games and we had no basis for accusing them beyond intuition. I'm not sure if it warrants that degree of meddling by the government, but they weren't inventing the problem.
I live in Florida, and let me tell you...we have some fucked up shit going on down here. People in New York, Texas, and California read about the crazy shit that happens here and are like "omg wtf?". Down here, we call that "yesterday" (or "today" if the news spreads quickly enough). Those states wish they were as fucked up as Florida is. In conclusion, I propose that Florida secede from the union.
All in favor? Yea.
All opposed? *silence*.
The motion passes.
As someone who worked in Florida local media (WTSP-TV in St. Pete), I can tell you that Florida media completely ignores stories of magnitude and focuses on the retarded, weird shit.
Have you heard about how Fox News WTVT (Ch 13) tried to squash news about the health risks Monsanto's BGH, bovine growth hormone, has? A husband and wife team of reporters spent months talking to ranchers, healthcare workers, and scientists about BGH. They were about to air the report when Monsanto called Fox and wanted to review and approve the story first. Seeing as how Monsanto's a big advertizer they got their way. But the reporters refused to let the company edit it so they were fired. Taking the firing to court they sued Fox and eventually won.
FalconShould there be a Law?
So basically what your trying to say is that if you vote for Rep your fucked because you get socialist right wing nutjobs like Bush who sell you out to the RIAA, or you vote Democrat and your sold out by secretary fuckers like Clinton who sell you out to the RIAA.
So since both sides are selling your out for money who do you vote for?
I see a flaw in your two party system.
It's just as bad for aussies though. Coz JonnyH follows whatever your sellout government does and he doesn't get paid out for it!
They want your money every way they can get it, and every way they can't get it too!
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
If it were passed by unanimous vote, it wouldn't have mattered whether or not he vetoed it. You only need 2/3rd's support to pass a bill over a veto.
"That which does not kill us makes us stranger." -Trevor Goodchild
Actually, Tommy Thompson is the reason that the deficit was there to begin with. Tommy Thompson did do some good though, such as the Badger Care program. Jim Doyle is far from perfect, but the people running against him have been complete dolts. I'm hoping he decides to retire soon so a real democrat can run against him.
Wisconsin doesn't always vote democrat. In fact, Wisconsin presidential races are usually very close (within a couple thousand people in the last two). Also, Wisconsin has a republican senator.
Help I'm a rock.
Don't be a dumbass: when a republican controlled congress passes a law unanimously, you don't veto it - it just makes you look weak. The Republicans did pass this law. Thank them next November.
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
I'm a libertarian who believes in completely nationalizing the power grid.
I am a Libertarian and I support personalizing the power grid.
FalconShould there be a Law?
Oh wait...nevermind...
First those Republicans required those Parental Advisory [wikipedia.org] stickers on CDs
If you are going to link to wikipedia, at least get it right:
"Tipper stickers" implies Tipper GORE. You know, the DEMOCRATIC vice-president the people voted for for president in 2000?
Is hard to tell the difference some times though, isn't it?
If the brick and mortar establishments weren't an improvement in some regard over online selling (even if that improvement is simply consumer awareness), then they wouldn't be in business. So the answer is nothing, but that doesn't mean that the law doesn't still make the world (well... Florida and Utah at least) a worse place to live. Thanks again legislators!
Relax I just want some peanuts.
this is not that far from what happens here in most states of Australia where all second hand dealers have to be licensed under the pawn brokers act.
While we don't require draconian things like fingerprinting or any thing else so extreme you are required to supply what we call 100 points of ID (same as for opening a bank account or applying for a passport) usually needing 3 ID cards/forms at least one having to be official state/federal photographic ID (ie drivers license, passport) which the dealer has to make a photocopy (or photographic copy) of, goods must be registered with police via their online system with in 24 hours and held for at least 1 week before being released for resale.
Pretty much all the record shops here simply refuse to deal in second hand music as it's not worth their time and effort, I mean sure, dealing in say a second hand guitar no problems sure couple of grand, 20% commission no problems $400 for 20 minutes of work no sweat.... but same amount of work for a 5% to 10% commission on, say $10 worth of used CD's ? forget it...
And then there's the legal issues - my local music shop stopped dealing in second hand music after the owner got busted for buying (as a trade in) a CD single worth 50 cents as he (or more specifically one of his staff) bought it off of a minor (under 18) counter to the pawnbrokers act, she was 17 and 10 months old and the clerk only looked at the year of birth on her drivers license before OK'ing the trade in.
Cost - 1 day's lost income closing the shop to attend court, $400 solicitors and lawyers fees each for himself and the clerk, $1000+ fine, and had his visa refused (as a convicted felon) when he attempted to travel to the USA several months later.
I've thought about this too, and the best idea I can come up with is to give them away, but specifically to people who wouldn't have bought it. Try to expose people to music that you think is good that's outside what they normally listen to. Worse case, they throw it out. Best case, they like it and go on to support the artist in the future by buying other CDs, seeing them live, etc. There's no loss to the artist, who wasn't about to sell to this person anyway, and only a possible benefit by increasing their exposure to a large audience.
Like saying you're not allowed to sell used tapes. One the value is so low you could never hope to make any real money. Two CD's are on the way out. The CD is dieing the same death tapes did 15 years ago. What pisses me off is they wasted all that tax payer money passing an irrelevant law.
In my town, we used to have a bookshop that rented audio CDs. They also rented videos which was really the main thing they rented. CDs were kind of a small sideline.
The store was owned, operated by and catered to a particular "ethnic" group. Nobody else ever shopped there. Ever. CD rental is totally common and legal back in the home country, which is where all the CDs and videos originated (and the books too but they didn't rent those). The record industry back home supported rentals and had no problems with it. It was a common way of doing business. While this store was in the US, it didn't sell or rent _anything_ made by US companies. Nothing from RIAA or MPAA. Hell, nothing in the store was even in the English language. Very very ethnic.
Renting CDs may sound nuts but this was back in the days before ripping tools, before MP3, before there were CD burners, so you couldn't exactly DO anything but listen to a CD or make a tape out of it. Lord knows I tried but there were no options.
Someone reported them -suspicion is a Muzak rep doing one of their "store inspections" was behind it -and the CD rentals went away. Apparently CD rental is illegal in the US? Not sure. If that is the case, then how are video games (a CD format) and DVD rentals legal?
So who was hurt when they stopped renting CDs? Only the customers because they lost access to the music from back home. The RIAA gained nothing because it wasn't their music anyway. These people don't understand or care about English-language music. They just wanted the music from home.
Eventually the store dried up and blew away. Rather sad really.
This smells like the DMCA all over again. Like the DMCA trampling over fair-use rights simply because copyrighted content is encrypted, this legislation is completely stripping consumers of their rights under the First-Sale Doctrine! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine
:-P) legislators, who in-turn strip citizens' rights to fatten the wallets of the already-rich. Pathetic.....
- your-old-cds-become-criminal.html
For instance, in Florida a new restriction requires that stores only provide in-store credit, and not be allowed to pay for used albums that are turned in.
Once again, the RIAA bribes (whoops, I mean lobbies of course
http://watching-eyes.blogspot.com/2007/05/offload
http://watching-eyes.blogspot.com/
Does this mean all my friends will have to get their pirated music from the Internet now?
I guess people do use these stores, but I still wonder why anyone cares.....?
Exactly...clothes are another big area where counterfeiting is popular. Should donations to the salvation army be outlawed or require a fingerprinting/anal probe/retinal scan yada yada yada. The fact that this is limited to a single product (music CDs) pretty much proves that this law was bought by the RIAA, and wasn't passed for any sensible reason.
http://watching-eyes.blogspot.com/
2 things:
.. cha ..
1. If this happens across the US, who is getting paid to police this security measure? I mean, someone is going to have to go through all that kept personal information on all these people trying to unload their unwanted cds and check it with stolen goods records, right?
2. As some others have said, the same things could be said for the sale of any used item. Where does it end though? A few years back, I was a big fan of the TV show Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I was sadly rarely at home when it was on so I always programmed my VCR to record it for me. I now have just about every episode on tape from when it originally aired. Can I be charged with theft for this? Or this... as a child I remember my neighbor getting the brand new Madonna tape for her birthday. Consequently, me and 4 other girls on the street ran home, grabbed a blank tape and ran back to make a copy. On other occasions, we even shared our cassettes and passed them amongst eachother. So now, when my son and his friends pass around video games.. they are breaking the law? By being good friends and having good sharing skills?
I personally am of the crowd that no longer purchases CDs. I am also not a fan of trendy crappy music and I dont listen to the radio either. What I do, is similar to what I did as a child. See, I have friends. Sometimes a friend or even myself comes across new music in the many other ways you can hear the stuff and we talk about it. And, good friends that we are, we swap and share and borrow things with eachother.
Oh the horror. We should all be locked up. Lord knows there isnt anything worse than a friend who lets another friend borrow a flippin CD.
And these security measures are somehow going to stop theft and piracy?
Will I be arrested one day for passing on my childrens old clothing to a friend or family member? Or worse.. for selling it on eBay?
This land is becoming a scary scary place.
If they implemented this law in my state (Washington), I'd just stop buying any CDs (new or used) and get them all from the library system. I already preview a lot of music that way; it's free, and you can search their database of available titles to order what you want, to be delivered to the nearest library which I visit weekly anyway.
Of course, I have to send the CDs back after a month; if only there were a way to hold on to that music on my laptop ;-)
--- Attorneys Assisting Citizen-Soldiers & Families -
to continue boycotting all RIAA & MPAA products. No I don't download their crap, either. Besides, there's no legal way to play a DVD on Linux or FreeBSD. Fuck you, too, Microsoft.
If you want your life to be different, live it differently.
Check out the last part of a campaign ad for Ronda Storms Apparently sharing information you own is 'ripping off families'.
You can string them on wire over your chicken run to keep hawks away. They actually work pretty well for that. With the help of a dowel, a washer, and a cup hook, my wife makes them into bottom-whirl drop-spindles (for turning wool into yarn?). I've also seen people turn them into clocks. Nifty if you can read analog time.
buy music. Most of it is bought by people between...15 and 25? It's the kids that are the main market for the RIAA and they're the main target for the copyright enforcement PR effort.
Is the finger print thing for real? Do you need to get ink on your digits in any state in the USA to buy a gun? If you have to fingerprint for CD's but not for gun purchase, well, that's just too hilarious.
It sounded so nice when I was young. Freedom, equality, education, justice, good government. I'm 35 and I feel like a stupid kid. Did I miss something? Shiny!
Quack, quack.
The patron state of alt.tasteless.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
When all the CDs are outlawed, only the outlaws will have CDs?
Study everything, you'll find something you can use - Jason Bourne
Truly, Wisconsin is firmly under the thumb of the Democrats. That's why we have a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage and civil unions. That's why we have a constitutional amendment protecting the "right to hunt." That's why whenever Madison does someting uppity and liberal like a handgun ban, the state rushes to pass a law trumping Madison's law. Prior to Doyle, we had a Republican Governor for 14 years.
In reality, Wisconsin is a closely split state, with Madison and Milwaukee tending Democrat and the rest of the state tending Republican in a common urban/rural split. That Democrats have an edge now mostly reflects the general centrist positions of many Wisconsin Democrat politicians.
Search 2010 Gen Con events
boycott the mafiaa bastards
creative commons music is fine, we don't need to be pushed around just to enjoy music!
http://www.garageband.com/
http://www.jamendo.com/en/
http://ccmixter.org/
http://www.last.fm/
http://www.myownmusic.de/
and a link collection (in german)
http://netzpolitik.org/ccwiki/index.php/CC-Musik
The MAFIAA is a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes
I'm sure a number of people are thinking that you were making a joke, and you may have been, but those of us that actually are libertarian-socialists (some lean to fascism when they realize people are to stupid to govern themselves), like Noam Chomsky, have to agree with you that we are underrepresented (no completely unrepresented). I mean we have Bernie Sanders after all (though not quite as libertarian or socialist as I would like it, he's a good start).
The easiest and most effective way to fight DRM is by withdrawing your monetary support of the system. I realise this may be hard for people that love their music and/or movies. Look at it as a sacrifice for the greater good. Companies that do not support fair use of a purchased product will not make any money from me because I do not purchase their products. I have not purchased music since I was at uni, over ten years ago (I listen to the radio), and I have not purchased any DVD's for more than 5 years (I only watch the news and mostly read books). I dont even go to see movies at the theatre anymore. DRM has eroded the rights of consumers, so we should erode their profit margin by boycotting their products. This does not break any laws (none that I know of) and is a silent protest against an unjust system. I encourage people around the world to fight the evil of DRM in a law abiding fashion. How has the world peacefully encouraged countries to change policies in the past and present, using economic sanctions!
:)
This is my two cents worth
American voters should start a campaign to declare both politically and legally "Unsuitable to legislate" any politician, who supports this law.
Generations that grew up getting all their music for free don't value it that much. They write songs off the same templates and do as little as possible while trying to 'get famous'. See: Pop charts - 2007.
Support live music - much of what we still listen to (read: pre-1980) was created by players who cut their teeth playing live every night. Lots of great pop music was invented by cats (old guy slang) getting bored on the bandstand, whether it was Chicago in the 20s, Kansas City in the 40s, Hamburg in 1962 or the motor city. When you pay at the door, the artist (hopefully) gets a good taste. When you buy a beer at the venue, if the artist is smart, they get a percentage.
See you in 'meat space'
Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.
There's a store in Missoula, Montana that has quite a different view of the used CD business: http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2005/10/31/ente rtainer/ent02.txt
... *man* am I glad they banned smoking in enclosed public places here. You would not believe how good it is to go to a concert, or even just the pub, and not come back smelling like a burning rubbish heap. It's about the only sensible thing the Scottish Parliament have done since they opened for business. It's weird going into a pub in England now, all the smoke puts me off my pint.
Its time for a total boycott against the RIAA. Stop buying CD's. Any type, any place, new or used. Don't do anything illegal. Just don't buy any more music or CD's. Let them sit and stew in their own juices and ruminate on how they've totally ruined their industry. I for one don't give a rat's ass about any of the new (so-called) music that's coming out these days. Between my wife and I we own around 800+ CD's. But we haven't bought a single one in the last few years. We don't feel like subsidizing the industry that's busy destroying our right to choose what we want, how we want to listen to it, where we want to listen to it, and on what devices we choose to use. We are completely fed up and disgusted with the whole thing. Let it die. What do we care? Something new and better will rise up from the ashes to take its place and all those asshole lawyers and record execs can just sue each other if they want to.
It is completely within the right of the consumer to buy or NOT BUY anything he or she wants. You DON'T have to have a new music CD. It will not sustain you, nor provide you shelter (unless you tie together a whole lot of them, I guess..) and you will not die if you do not purchase one today. On the other hand, if enough people decide NOT to buy CD's anymore, the RIAA along with their fuckhead lawyers and fat-cat greedy bastard record execs will. They will have to get up off their big fat asses and do some REAL WORK for a change. No more svengalis.
Free the artists.
Support direct sales and downloads from bands and artists.
Shun DRM.
Feed the poor. You'll have lots of leftover money, why not do something useful with it? Why make the RIAA lawyers and record execs fatter and richer? There are people who need it far more than they do.
Its time for a complete and total boycott against the RIAA and their shadowy record-company masters.
Stop supporting tyranny and censorship, Stop buying CD's.
They will be pretty fucked once people realise they don't need to listen to music at all.
Exactly the point I made in both emails I sent to the @#$@# idiots legislating "for me". It's not like we have a lot of extra money to throw away for the RIAA in the first place either.
I TRIED to vote for someone who had at least HALF a clue. I really did. =(
As long as we allow it. A political bloodbath in Florida and Utah following this would perhaps send the message to our legislators that we will not put up with this. Of course they chose Florida and Utah because those states are already demonstrably retarded. If you happen to live in Florida or Utah and are not demonstrably retarded I apologize for your poor selection of places of residence and also demand that you start organizing those bloodbaths.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
C'mon, fellow Californians! We can do better than this start petitioning our legislature. Remember, we (Los Angeles) are one of the seats of the recording industry.
I propose:
- Mandatory registration of all CD's
- "Use a CD, go to prison" laws
- 10 day waiting period for all CD purchases.
Oh! Maybe I should (just in case) add:
4 - ???
5 - Profit!!!
-- I have monkeys in my pants.
After all, who the fuck is Steve Albini?
Yes I know. Jeb was only the case that most stuck in my head. It was not my intention to flame an entire state but that following the money is likely to uncover interesting facts, and Florida does not seem to be particularly clean.
... that the case was not about the corruption that the government claimed but about Geddings' ... previously lived in Charlotte, now lives in Florida. Geddings was appointed to the lottery commission ... the lottery commission "as a venue for graft and greed." Well I can't tell if this involves Florida really maybe it's really a Carolinas story. He lives in Florida though.
...A profound problem that has plagued both the City of Miami and Miami-Dade County police departments are rampant instances of police corruption and abuse of power. ...A prominent example of this is the 2003 case of eleven City of Miami police officers accused of planting guns at crime scenes, shooting unarmed civilians and giving false statements."
...The Web site says Curtis delivered the program "believing the prototype was to be used in some way to prevent election fraud" until the company's owner told him it was to be used to "control the vote in South Florida." It was this corruption, Curtis says, that prompted him to run against [Republican Tom] Feeney."
There was a prominent story asking why the NRA helped support such a gun law as that one.
And gee, there was a Florida corruption story in today's google news even. I don't know if Florida is more or less corrupt than say New York or L.A., but certainly following the money has worked quite a lot in the past month or so as the following headlines show. Perhaps this is aimed more at the person replying to your post than you yourself. Shooting with a shotgun I suppose this being the web and all.
May 4: "The ongoing investigation into corruption at the Ohio Bureau of Workers' Compensation and in state government produced another conviction yesterday"
May 8: "Geddings gets 4 years in prison.
May 7: "Serious weaknesses found in repaired New Orleans levees. Also casting a shadow of doubt over the pumps is the fact that the deal to provide them went to Moving Water Industries, a politically connected Florida firm that's currently the target of a Department of Justice lawsuit over corruption allegations"
April 9: "Violence and corruption still a problem in South Florida.
April 25, 2007: Florida's Top Prison Official Goes To Jail "The public official who once headed Florida's Department of Corrections has been sentenced to eight years in prison for taking thousands of dollars in kickbacks from a contractor during his scandal-plagued tenure."
April 30, 2007 From CQ Weekly: Florida Recount Drama -- Part III. "Curtis' campaign Web site says that, while working in 2000 as a computer programmer with Yang Enterprises Inc. of Oveido, Fla., he was told to develop software for Feeney -- then a GOP leader in the state House and also Yang's general counsel -- "that would allow for elections to be invisibly rigged.
"The legislation is supposed to stop the sale of counterfeit and/or stolen music CDs"
if they are so worried about this, then get the record companies to print serial numbers on the CDs same as for electrical goods. Then they can be easily traced...
(Although, of course we know they aren't worried about their customers being robbed, they're worried about themselves not being able to rob their customers!)
----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
It occurs to me that under the current fair-use doctrine, you are allowed to share a CD with a friend. Not to give them a copy, but to share-- loan them the CD to use and listen to until they want to give it back or you want it back. When you buy the CD you have that right. If you buy TWO CD's that are the same, you could loan BOTH copies to two different friends in the same manner. And when friend #1 is finished listening to the CD, you could then loan it out to friend #3. And the second copy to friend #4 and so on. So as long as the number of friends borrowing and listening to the CD's does not exceed the number of legally purchased CD's, you'd be good to go. So if you had a way to make your own CD's available online so that your friends could borrow them pretty much whenever they were available-- we're assuming you're a good-natured sort of fellow who doesn't mind when friends drop by and borrow stuff. And then if your friend posts his CD's, and another friend posts her CD's, sooner or later a very large pool of CD's would be available to borrow. At some point the number of available copies of a CD would satisfy the level of demand for that particular CD. At any given moment there would always be a legally purchased copy that a friend could borrow. So you would probably need some software that was smart enough to keep track of all your friends, your CD catalog, who was borrowing what when, and making sure that never more than the proper number of CD's were loaned out.
These days there are social sites-- online watering holes where you go to meet people and hang out with your buddies. People keep up with each other using "friends" lists and similar tools. Also, there are already other organizations in existance all over the country that do something similar under the auspices of being a "lending library". Again they have to keep up with the number of copies they own and manage who is borrowing what, when. This concept is those concepts on a national level-- even a worldwide level. Imagine building a modern version of the Great Library at Alexandria using broadband and TCP/IP... It could be the largest library in history-- in every sense of the word-- scope, patronage, items in its , collection, reach, and usage. All legal, every item legitimately purchased to share with its library patrons.
So either way, using either model-- an enormous catalog of information, books, recordings, music, plays, movies, cultural works of all kinds could be made available to one and all.
There are many benefits besides the obvious:
-- People would not have to worry about being sued by the RIAA or MPAA since anytime they wanted to listen to music or watch a movie or other cultural materials, they could just turn to the great library and simply borrow legitimate copies from their friends, use them for a reasonable period of time, and then return them so someone else could use them. The RIAA and MPAA should also be satisfied with this arrangement as well since their stated goals are to simply eliminate pirated copies of copyrighted materials and thwart illicit copying which robs them of their rightful revenues. As each CD, DVD or other cultural item in the collection has been legally purchased, these organizations would be able to sleep much better at night knowing their intellectual properties are safe.
-- The people of the great state of Florida would be able to rest easier knowing that CD and DVD bandits would be off the streets for good and the great scourge of "used music fencing" would be wiped out permanently. Since there would be little reason for people to store the CD's and other cultural materials they own in their homes-- naturally they would want to graciously offer their items to the library so that their friends could enjoy them as well-- and also since so many people would be able to utilize these materials in their non-physical form, the great lengths the state is presently forced to enact to protect its citizens would be no longer necessary.
-- The citizens of the world would be
A New album of my fav band is out. I'm $15 short of buying it. I have some old CDs I don't need anymore.
1. I go find a store, register, leave fingerprints, sell the old CDs and purchase the album legally, using my own $15 and the credit.
2. I discard the CDs and launch emule, grab the album off the net.
Which one is more likely?
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
...the country of the infinite possibilities.
He was also fighting the attitude that reading something, viewing art, etc. was not piracy; that selling others works for profit or claiming they are your own is what wasn't cool and that the exposure to art and literature were basic human rights regardless of your financial situation.
This is just another one of those things that we're supposed to be vigilant about, like taxes, like the logic that refusing a search from the 'good guys' is evidence of contraband, etc. The music and movie industry is simply a weighted marketing engine. In the day, with the horses and buggies, a fellow could make a modest living publishing to a smaller population with literacy issues still using betamax. If a million people stole my digitised works, it's a productive loss, like spending a million on advertising - now I can sell t-shirts, or sell seats at a performance while owning my own work without having to pay for protection from the mafiaa.
Anyways, it was another cool quote, I wish I could remember it.
"Tipper stickers" implies Tipper GORE. You know, the DEMOCRATIC vice-president the people voted for for president in 2000?
If you are going to criticize a comment that seems ridiculous, at least make sure it's not a joke. I think this comment explains it best.Golly, those discs must be worth more than gold or diamonds. I read another article tonight about how difficult a time the studios are having, protecting their HD-DVDs.
There's only one answer for all this: require that all existing CDs and DVDs, old and new, be sealed in protective resin blocks, and further production prohibited. So those discs can never endanger anyone again. Either that, or to prevent anyone from defiling the songs and vids by listening or viewing them ever again.
It's nearly impossible to tell what the real danger is, here, but something drastic clearly needs to be done.
- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged, 1957.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
In soviet russia when you try to sell something that you own - they collect your fingerprints. Hey, wait a minute...
I thought Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard..
[Slashdot Comments We Liked]
Great- why wont people see that the 2 main parties aren't good for anything and start going for 3rd parties?
OSx86 FTW
that bad laws reduce the level of respect for all laws.
Laws are followed and respected by most not because of the punishment, but because acting within the law is generaly agreed to be the right thing to do.
When there is a lot of regulation that works against a lot of the population (prohibition springs to mind), those laws and any others any individual does not like (speeding, drug control, tax, dog control, pollution regulations) become someone elses laws and the general impression follows that you don't have to follow someone elses laws - they are not ones you signed up to.
The reverse also occurs, where the courts and the media are used to 'prosecute' people and organisations for crimes that do not exist.
Unfortunately people live in one country at a time and you cannot live in the US and opt for Danish(?) copyright laws.
Over the last decade or so I have seen a gradual fraying of the web that binds people together and keeps society civil.
This runs from the bush administration's legal twisting over Guantanamo, retroactive (and possibly still illegal) wiretaps, to the activities of corporates over accounting, tax and treatment of individuals (HP) to individuals who justify commiting a crime because it will prevent a larger 'moral crime'.
People in this site, and others like it are more sensitive to these effects because we do sit next to someone in Germany or India in a sense.
What's the answer?
Ask Slashdot!
http://www.lala.com/ Where you *trade* CD's, not buy and sell?
;-)
Well this whole music RIAA lawsuit crap is really grating on my nerves. I love music, so maybe I'll just learn to play an instrument, drop my ISP, and entertain myself in my basement...or at least until it's unlawful to entertain one's self in the basement.
News like this makes me glad I never bought a single CD in my life, although I "own" approximatelly 120 gigs of music. I am sure with tactics like these RIAA will push more people in my corner.
you know, even if you are 10.000 miles to united states, its not too hard to learn that how some stuff is done in some states there. i see that utah has their reputation well earned, as a state not having passed out a single rational law since 1886.
Read radical news here
LMAO. What the law says is irrelevant. What people actually DO is not.
As we all know, there are hundreds of legal spats between companies and individuals going on all over the world in regards to copywrite, patents, entertainment licensing, and all other areas of "intellectual property rights".
At the end of the day it will all be irrelevant because it's the public - especially that portion of the public with technical know-how - that decide what does and does not happen on their PCs and devices in their homes, and if enough people do what the hell they want DESPITE what the law says (and they ARE), then that law is unenforcible by definition.
This has been the case for about 10 years now, since the first days of Napster & co, yet still the suits and moneymakers think they can regain control! Idiots.
More and more unenforcible laws and irrelevant court decisions have do nothing more than waste time and money that would be better spent on innovation.
We first pay an inflated price to rent a physical copy of the music. Each use of that copy then accrues a royalty fee which they should be payed. Finally, when we 'resell' that 'rented' copy, we should then pay a percentage of our profits to the RIAA as well. Is that how this supposed to work?
I was an intern during the Utah legislation when this law was discussed. The purpose behind it was not to go after CD resellers. The problem is that there is a lot of theft of home building equipment and huge rolls of wire which are being sold to scrap yards. To combat this they created a law but were not insightful enough (during committee meetings) to realize the problems for other businesses.
This is just one step away from controling ( then eliminating ) the entire 'underground economy' we call bartering. Sneak it in using something the unknowledgeable comon folk believe in " we are helping the starving artists" until we all get used to it as 'normal'.
.. Everything will have to have a registered purchaser 'for our protection'.
Next you can expect books to go this route. Computers.. Food
---- Booth was a patriot ----
The same reason people keep listening to Britney Spears or the latest pop wonder instead of discovering music that they truly like: Groupthink. "If no one else listens/votes for this, it probably means I'm stupid and everyone will laugh at me."
c++;
whatever happened to the first sale doctrine?
flip side is, in florida, you should now be able to get a full warrenty refund anytime within 5 years of the purchase of the new CD. by default we all have 2 warrenty's for 5 years for 'merchantability' and 'fitness for a particular purpose'. merchantability being the ability to resell an object
---
It was passed a few years ago in Florida that any new videogame store that did not have presence in the date as of such and such a date fell under pawn shop laws for trading in videogames. It seems like they've just extended this to cover used cd's now. The good thing: all your favorite existing local music stores will more than likely be exempt from this and be grandfathered in. The bad thing: this will make new start-ups very unattractive.
Basically, this is a big win for corporate record stores. They already exist with trade in programs, they will be exempt from this law (which will make them more attractive for trade-ins), and they will effectively block new small record stores from being attractive for trade ins. This is bs if I've ever seen it...
Wise men say, "Forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza."
To reiterate:
/|\
O <---- Joke
O
| You
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/ \
Nice offhand "Bush stole the fscking election" quip at the end though.
"I've spent my whole life figuring out crazy ways to do things. It'll work." -- Montgomery Scott, "Relics"
I thought the RIAA had just about killed off that business model.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
I have lived in Florida all of my life. I am 37. Part of the problem that Florida has in the "all sorts of dumb things happen here" category comes from the fact that the MAJORITY of "Floridians" have only lived here 10 years or less.
I can remember when I was a kid there were so many fewer people here. Now, every other plate is from out of state. I am not a South vs. the North kind of person, but the reason that all of this occurs is that Florida is such a melting pot of transplants from everywhere else, you end up having a much higher percentage of weirdos/wackos/crazies, etc.
Sorry, but I, being a native Floridian, was offended. I can guarantee that I could find lots of stupid/weird/crazy crap that has been passed through legislature in EVERY state....
sure, utah has some misguided morality issues - often quite amusing!
but surely this is all about _business_ as usual, about business using
monied influence to purchase favorable legislation. i hate to even
suggest it but if you look into your own legistature, you just might
find similar shenanigans taking place. shocking i know!
-- How I want a drink, alcoholic of course, after the heavy lectures involving quantum mechanics.
Try to charge royalties on that one RIAA. RIAA doesn't do that, but BMI, ASCAP, and SESAC do.
"They need your money"
Those independent retailers help keep the music business cool. It'll hurt the industry's streat cred when they go down.
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
My parents used to own (and I used to work in) a Pawn Shop in the U.S. Every state has specific laws concerning pawn shops, but in general they are similar. First of all, if what you describe above happened, the criminal wouldn't take it to a pawn shop, even with the remote, cables, manual, and box it came in. When a pawn shop buys or lends on (there is a difference) anything with a serial number, it is recorded in a log along with the pawner's drivers license number and name, and given to the police periodically (in our case it was every week). Sometimes if alot of items were stolen, the police would come by the day after to look at our logs. Real criminals know this and would never sell electronics (and especially guns) to a pawn shop. They'll take it to the flea market or something similar where no one keeps records.
We only had one instance (in several years) of anything stolen coming through our shop. This is what happened: A kid around 18 or so came in with some expensive stereo equipment (higher end than what you can buy at Best Buy). My stepfather immediately thought something was wrong. He explained to the kid that he would only buy the equipment if it wasn't stolen. Furthermore, if it was stolen, he had the kid's drivers license info, which would be turned over to the police, and the kid would certainly go to jail. He insisted that it wasn't stolen and accepted a reasonable offer from my stepfather. A few days later the police came by and inquired about the equipment because it was stolen. The kid ended up going to jail because he was stupid. I don't think this deterred him from stealing again, but he now knows not to sell anything to a pawn shop.
I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve it by not dying. - Woody Allen
Which one is the Republican, again? While I realize that Herb Kohl might as well be a Republican (based on his voting patterns and policy initiatives), Russ Feingold is more Democrat than most Democrats.
Reminds me of that - apocryphal, of course - excerpt from a 9th grade History report:
In the late 1800's, all of the Morons moved to Utah.
Well, if that's the case, how do we explain DC?
Truth, Justice. Or the American Way.
You know thats atypical right? A friend of mine used to be addicted to heroin very badly. Him and his buddies would sell stuff daily to pawnshops. He even went so far as to brag that half the inventory of the shoppe was courtesy of him and his friends.
Go to any bad part of town and you can see for yourself tweakers selling decks for five or ten dollars. Its rampent where Im from. Drugs are more important than getting caught, especially if you have 'no fixed address' like most street people.
I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
I can feel God's massive love throbbing within me.
Sounds like someone has a "personal" relationship with the almighty...
Georgia Tech, the leader in Chia(tm) technology.
I searched the Utah website, and didn't find anything. I called the Utah state legislature, and they didn't know what I was talking about. So I called John Mitchell, who was a source for the article.
He kindly pointed me to Utah House Bill 402 which seems to cover any second hand store.
-John Fenley
We can argue all day about the easy availability of illegal guns, but we can't just remove them all magically. Criminals will always be able to get guns regardless of laws.
I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve it by not dying. - Woody Allen
If a pawn shop continually buys and sells stolen merchandise, they will lose their license. No shop owner wants that. Your "friend's" situation was certainly the atypical one.
I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve it by not dying. - Woody Allen
Wow, I seriously thought Kohl was republican. I really like Russ Feingold. I'm very proud to have elected a senator that voted against the war and the Patriot Act.
Help I'm a rock.
This post title is brought to you by Sarcasm.
With all the BS that's going on in this state (I live in FL, btw) regarding homeowner's insurance, taxes, etc, I am so very thankful that the legislators felt it necessary to address this pressing issue! They didn't even fix the tax "problem" (the fact that home values have risen so much in the state that the current tax structure is boned) in this session, but used CDs? Hell yeah!
There are only 10 kinds of people in this world... those who understand binary and those who don't
What is the legal justifications for applying this law to only CDs? In terms of copyright law, is there anything that holds a CD as distinctly different than a vinyl record, tape, DVD, book, comic book, poster, t-shirt, or restaurant menu? If it is allegedly in the public's interest to place these restrictions on one form of IP, wouldn't a greater good be served by extending the law to universally apply to all IP?
Were they really becoming Fences? I mean do you have actual stats on that or just some anecdote off of Fox 'News'?
I can't believe all the asshat responses to this. This is not some secret plot to prevent sales of used music and forward the information to the RIAA. It's to prevent fencing stolen CDs, just like there are similar requirements for reselling other used goods, like copper pipe and and motor vehicles.
Sheesh.
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
I Smell BestBuy's lobbyists on this one. With the rising price of CD's the only way they can compete is to axe some of their competition. Lacking the ability to ban the internet they can stomp on local used CD cariers who are their most immediate competition.
I'm not 100% certain, but it looks like it is this bill: http://le.utah.gov/~2007/bills/hbillint/hb0402.htm
It basically redefines all "secondhand merchandise dealers" as pawnbrokers and holds them to all the usual restrictions and requirements that pawnbrokers must follow.
Um, that'd be TFA. Some folks R them before posting questions answered there, you see.
Ha. Just the opposite in Portland Oregon. Here pretty much anything goes.
7 .html
Here's an article link http://www.portlandcopwatch.org/PPR37/secondhand3
And here's a choice snippet:
In September, 2005, subsequent to a raid by the FBI on ten secondhand shops, Detective Sergeant David Anderson sent Chief Foxworth a memo expressing serious concern regarding "a culture of acceptance within the Police Bureau in which our officers know that these shops are engaging in illicit business." Sergeant Anderson referred to these shops as "little more than legalized fencing operations" (Oregonian, October 2).
My apologies if I have slighted the subtle distinction between a "secondhand shop" and a "pawn shop".
Are these "secondhand shops" really pawn shops, or just shops for used merchandise? There is a big difference. I don't doubt that there are plenty of public outlets for stolen goods. But the public's perception of a pawn shop being filled with stolen goods is erroneous, assuming the state has and enforces laws like I described above.
I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve it by not dying. - Woody Allen
In California, the game stores like Game Stop or Game Exchange require a drivers license for sales or purchases. They fall under pawn shops according to state regulations.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable" - JFK
I was burglarized a few years ago, and I actually got back some of my stuff! The dolt who robbed me, robbed some other guy who had an 'idiosycratic' CD collection and a database of the discs. The cops didn't do much, so this guy faxed copies of his disc database to every used CD shop in the city, and bingo, a shop called him back with a match. The bonehead burglar had even used his real ID while selling CDs and pawning stuff. I got back two cameras (but not my CDs, laptop, nice video camera, etc., etc.) which he had pawned with his real ID.
I'm not a big fan of recording IDs or waiting periods, but there are real world situations where these can actually make a difference in catching theives and recovering property.
My girlfriend works in a pawn shop, and every day she buys stuff from tweakers that's probably stolen, but she can't do anything about it without proof. Not everything has a serial number, and not everyone writes down their serial numbers anyway.
Last year, my car was robbed. The only thing with a serial number was my Sirius radio, and I had to call Sirius to get it because I hadn't written it down. Most of what they stole was CDs. Who's going to buy a wallet full of Cake and TMBG albums on the street?
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