But a 3 pane view is essentially a drawer.... is it not? And no, I don't consider being "inside" the borders of the parent window a big enough difference to say that a 3-paned view is somehow different than Mail's 2 panes + drawer.
Of course, I don't use the "preview" pane in any mail application 'cause I find them more annoying than useful. Don't get me wrong, drawers do have a habit of being abused, but I don't think Mail is one of those locations.
List widget? Mailing list? Sorting list? Other list? I just don't know which you're talking about so I can figure out if I agree or not:)
The things that drove me nuts about Thunderbird (just tried it out) are mostly minor and "polish" related: - Popup buttons don't behave quite right, sometimes they are funky sizes. - Sheets/dialogs are often improperly sized. - My scrollwheel works in some places but not others (for example, the Advanced portion of the prefs). - It doesn't (yet) support importing of vCards and the half hour I tinkered with importing stuff from Address Book (via the Address Book Exporter application) was a waste of time (and really only a "second best" solution anyway, since it would be far nicer if it could actually just use Apple's Address Book API). - The threaded view felt clunky, since "Sort by Threading" would be deselected if I clicked a column. Furthermore, if I order by date descending (newest on top) it will order the top level appropriately but "inside" the thread it will put the newest at the bottom of the list. Arrrghhh. I'm spoiled by Mail's threading which does it right. Thunderbird needs to be in Threaded/Non-threaded sort mode and let you click column names to change the sorting but STAY THREADED and it needs to sort the thread internally by the same criteria as at the top level. - Essentially one has to go to multiple places to manage one's preferences (such as Preferences and Account Settings...). Apple got this mostly right, the configuration stuff is all accessed through one spot.
I can't comment on the Junk mail's strengths or weaknesses.
To its credit, those problems are mostly minor annoyances. It is pretty fast and its IMAP seems to be pretty good. However, it doesn't have anything to recommend it over Apple's Mail to me in terms of features, so those minor annoyances are deal breakers.
I'd love to see a client that is at least as good as Mail's current features but with better filtering and ways to act on email messages (I used to use BBEdit's MailSmith pre-OS X and it's filtering controls were great). For instance, neither Mail nor Thunderbird will let me build a rule that says match X and (match Y or Z).
Pearl Harbor was planned to occur after Japan had declared war. It wasn't intended to be a sneak attack.
Given your other posts, however, I see that you feel that as long as no one comes after you, it's ok if they go after other innocent people. None of this protects anything.
Take a hint from our pal Benjamin Franklin: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Anyway... if they were offering a free service and not telling users what was going on, then it would be evil. It's not evil to say "I'm going to offer you a free service, but in return here's what we will do.":-p
That's as ridiculous a statement as someone saying that people without degrees aren't worth hiring. A person either has the skills you need or doesn't.
Given that my G5 doesn't make much noise at all, I figure the noisey ones must be in hot environments or in areas with bad airflow. It's not as quiet as a G4 iBook or a Cube, but it's very quiet.
That's not a very fair comparison, though, because the Apache people don't have control over PHP (and the IIS people may not have control over ASP, but presumably SOMEONE up MS' chain does).
What would be fair would be to compare Apache with IIS w/o ASP. Then at least you'd be comparing the work of two groups, rather than the work of two groups and an add-on programmed by another group.
I'm certainly not saying that Apache doesn't have holes, just that your comparison isn't any more fair than that of Apache vs IIS (w/ ASP).
That doesn't make those stats fine. For instance, what the hell does an OS need with a bleeding edge graphics card? What would you be doing with an OS that requires (for a home user) more graphics power than any of today's bleeding-edge cards (or yesterday's mediocre cards, for that matter)?
Mabye I don't understand people's need to buy an update they don't want. Don't buy it 'til you think it's worth it. Problem solved. Do you buy a car each time they fix minor problems or revise body styles in a model?
What's the obsession with having the latest thing(s) just because it's the latest thing? (Which does beg the question -- why go with Debian, which seems to definitely never have the latest thing)
Re:Great examples as to why they SHOULD NOT use CS
on
CSS for the LDP?
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
Gee, that's funny, I could read it perfectly fine in IE 5.2 on Mac OS 10.3. Wonder why that might be. Oh, yes, I turned off CSS in the browser.
Normally I wouldn't post a reply to something like this, but the whole shitty, breakable design that is so much of the web is in large part due to supporting pathetically old and broken browsers and proprietary extensions. NS 4 anyone?
Mac IE 5.2 did way better than previous Mac browsers with CSS but it is by no means some sort of quality benchmark. ON TOP OF WHICH, you could easily write CSS that does something to make a site look better, but is still simple enough for Mac IE 5.2. It's rather ridiculous to take a broken browser and say "look, I know it's borked but look, it doesn't render this site correctly". What makes this even better, is that the site is entirely usable because thankfully MS did include the ability to disable style sheets (or use your own) in Mac IE 5.2.
There's no reason not to use CSS unless it means that someone who would otherwise have been writing documentation is now writing CSS. I believe it more than likely, however, that there are people who would be willing to work on the CSS but who would otherwise not be involved in the project.
While all this is true, I think the point is that it's at least somewhat absurd to say in one instance "Ok, you did not do this." and then somewhere else say "Well, it looks like there's a good chance you might have done it, so you're responsible for compensation."
Yes, I understand they are different courts with different standards to meet and brought by different plaintiffs, but it's still (at least somewhat) silly.
I'm just curious, but which part of beta don't you understand? I'm by no means a zealot, but I mean com'n. Outside of the fact that it's a beta so maybe it just isn't done, if you gave everyone everything in the beta, why would anyone buy the release? Sheesh. Think before you post and save us all the trouble:P
Yeah, but there are really good reasons that iCab is doing better and it isn't just 'cause it's a standalone.
Small memory footprint. It's tiny compared to ie4.5/ie5/ns4.x/moz Fast. Even without sucking up memory its fast. Standards compliant (and you can force it to act like ie/ns) Stable. Sure you get some odd crashes, but it's preview, I'll cut it some slack. Prefs: This is probably one of my favorites. Someone actually put thought into the modification of plugins, filters, etc.
Now javascript and CSS just need to work;)
Re:Because there is no point in ...
on
V2 OS
·
· Score: 1
Who said there had to be an applicable point. Sheesh, must everything today be done for some sort of market gain or to outdo something that's been done already? Compilers are good at what they do, why does that mean someone can't undertake a project to learn?
And what's wrong with exercising one's brain? Why is it that people are so ready and willing to say "But it has no point!" or "It isn't increasing the share of xx!" Who cares. It's an interesting thing they've done, OSes (even simple ones) are not easy.
It's so unfortunate that doing something to do it is disdained these days. I've got to say, the overwhelmingly negative response to this on/. is depressing.
Actually I think there's a real good possibility that it could fly on solar power. There's already a rather large R&D plane that flies by solar power. The thing has an enormous wing span and is designed to stay aloft up in the higher atmosphere for extended periods of time. Of course, the fact that the top of the wings are covered in solar cells helps.
While digging around Discovery Online (I believe it was a Discovery program that I saw the plane on -- yes it was flying) I came across this story http://www.discovery.com/stories/technology/microp lanes/microplanes.html which has some info about the current state of flying spies. It didn't seem that anyone in those projects felt that solar would be the final solution. The equipment used in these devices isn't small enough for the RoboFly, but who knows how much they could eventually scale them. There's some video footage of what the current camera is capable of.
Anyway, the point is that I figure they could fly it with solar power, but I don't know how much else they could get. There's not much surface area to cover.
Of course, since it's "...will be powered..." I doubt they know how they'd do it. Probably hoping there's a way when they get there:)
It'd help a lot of those both on/. and those that post to/. would research what they are talking about.
The G3s are upgradeable. If Apple or a 3rd party company wishes to offer G4 upgrade cards they can, just a little more work. In fact, there is one company that already has working cards (can't remember the name right now). I'm not saying that the firmware decision was a good one, but they never said you could upgrade a G3 to a G4 in the first place. This "story" was out months ago in a number of places. Too bad it took wired.com and/. to proliferate half-truths.
Why stick a better card in? If a better card is desired then someone shelling out x thousand dollars shouldn't have much problem getting the card THEY want instead of whatever apple put in it. Not to mention are we all forgetting that, in general, PCs don't come with a video card AT ALL. Apple's not only been supplying 2d since day 1, but now they give you 3d as well. If it isn't as stellar as you want, get a better card yourself.
This is laughable, do you understand benchmarking? Do you understand that benchmarking is usually pretty pointless? Benchmarks are really poor for comparisons across architectures. That's why you need to use actual applications. Why do you think MIPS means so little?
That's why their tests focused on apps. I'm not saying they showed a wide variety of applications, but what they did show were VALID differences. Not some silly benchmark. If they tried to get more apps to benchmark they'd be as stuck as intel was when their SIMD instructions came out. No one had optimized apps for those. Luckily Metrowerks has at least some support for AltiVec already, shouldn't be too hard for developers to start including AltiVec optimizations.
Learn about benchmarking before you claim it to be reliable and useful.
Slashdot Mirror
Well then I guess we need an equal or larger number of "Don't change the scheme, it's the best one you've got." comments as well.
Not yet, I played with Thunderbird last night after this story was posted, did laundry and went to bed :)
I'll file 'em if I get a chance tonight, though. Fully cognizant that nothing will be fixed if they aren't reported.
But a 3 pane view is essentially a drawer.... is it not? And no, I don't consider being "inside" the borders of the parent window a big enough difference to say that a 3-paned view is somehow different than Mail's 2 panes + drawer.
:)
Of course, I don't use the "preview" pane in any mail application 'cause I find them more annoying than useful. Don't get me wrong, drawers do have a habit of being abused, but I don't think Mail is one of those locations.
List widget? Mailing list? Sorting list? Other list? I just don't know which you're talking about so I can figure out if I agree or not
The things that drove me nuts about Thunderbird (just tried it out) are mostly minor and "polish" related:
- Popup buttons don't behave quite right, sometimes they are funky sizes.
- Sheets/dialogs are often improperly sized.
- My scrollwheel works in some places but not others (for example, the Advanced portion of the prefs).
- It doesn't (yet) support importing of vCards and the half hour I tinkered with importing stuff from Address Book (via the Address Book Exporter application) was a waste of time (and really only a "second best" solution anyway, since it would be far nicer if it could actually just use Apple's Address Book API).
- The threaded view felt clunky, since "Sort by Threading" would be deselected if I clicked a column. Furthermore, if I order by date descending (newest on top) it will order the top level appropriately but "inside" the thread it will put the newest at the bottom of the list. Arrrghhh. I'm spoiled by Mail's threading which does it right. Thunderbird needs to be in Threaded/Non-threaded sort mode and let you click column names to change the sorting but STAY THREADED and it needs to sort the thread internally by the same criteria as at the top level.
- Essentially one has to go to multiple places to manage one's preferences (such as Preferences and Account Settings...). Apple got this mostly right, the configuration stuff is all accessed through one spot.
I can't comment on the Junk mail's strengths or weaknesses.
To its credit, those problems are mostly minor annoyances. It is pretty fast and its IMAP seems to be pretty good. However, it doesn't have anything to recommend it over Apple's Mail to me in terms of features, so those minor annoyances are deal breakers.
I'd love to see a client that is at least as good as Mail's current features but with better filtering and ways to act on email messages (I used to use BBEdit's MailSmith pre-OS X and it's filtering controls were great). For instance, neither Mail nor Thunderbird will let me build a rule that says match X and (match Y or Z).
Oh please. Do you really think that in 5 weeks we'll be packing up "Well, everything looks good here, call us if you need anything?"
Pearl Harbor was planned to occur after Japan had declared war. It wasn't intended to be a sneak attack.
Given your other posts, however, I see that you feel that as long as no one comes after you, it's ok if they go after other innocent people. None of this protects anything.
Take a hint from our pal Benjamin Franklin: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Funny, they seem far better at terrorising us than at protecting us from it.
As someone pointed out above, Red Scare & McCarthyism all over again.
Yes, people really are that dense.
(and: but i don't even believe in jeebus)
Oh please.
:-p
Why am I feeding the trolls?
Anyway... if they were offering a free service and not telling users what was going on, then it would be evil. It's not evil to say "I'm going to offer you a free service, but in return here's what we will do."
That's as ridiculous a statement as someone saying that people without degrees aren't worth hiring. A person either has the skills you need or doesn't.
Given that my G5 doesn't make much noise at all, I figure the noisey ones must be in hot environments or in areas with bad airflow. It's not as quiet as a G4 iBook or a Cube, but it's very quiet.
That's not a very fair comparison, though, because the Apache people don't have control over PHP (and the IIS people may not have control over ASP, but presumably SOMEONE up MS' chain does).
What would be fair would be to compare Apache with IIS w/o ASP. Then at least you'd be comparing the work of two groups, rather than the work of two groups and an add-on programmed by another group.
I'm certainly not saying that Apache doesn't have holes, just that your comparison isn't any more fair than that of Apache vs IIS (w/ ASP).
That doesn't make those stats fine. For instance, what the hell does an OS need with a bleeding edge graphics card? What would you be doing with an OS that requires (for a home user) more graphics power than any of today's bleeding-edge cards (or yesterday's mediocre cards, for that matter)?
Sorry, it just seems silly.
Mabye I don't understand people's need to buy an update they don't want. Don't buy it 'til you think it's worth it. Problem solved. Do you buy a car each time they fix minor problems or revise body styles in a model?
What's the obsession with having the latest thing(s) just because it's the latest thing? (Which does beg the question -- why go with Debian, which seems to definitely never have the latest thing)
Gee, that's funny, I could read it perfectly fine in IE 5.2 on Mac OS 10.3. Wonder why that might be. Oh, yes, I turned off CSS in the browser.
Normally I wouldn't post a reply to something like this, but the whole shitty, breakable design that is so much of the web is in large part due to supporting pathetically old and broken browsers and proprietary extensions. NS 4 anyone?
Mac IE 5.2 did way better than previous Mac browsers with CSS but it is by no means some sort of quality benchmark. ON TOP OF WHICH, you could easily write CSS that does something to make a site look better, but is still simple enough for Mac IE 5.2. It's rather ridiculous to take a broken browser and say "look, I know it's borked but look, it doesn't render this site correctly". What makes this even better, is that the site is entirely usable because thankfully MS did include the ability to disable style sheets (or use your own) in Mac IE 5.2.
There's no reason not to use CSS unless it means that someone who would otherwise have been writing documentation is now writing CSS. I believe it more than likely, however, that there are people who would be willing to work on the CSS but who would otherwise not be involved in the project.
While all this is true, I think the point is that it's at least somewhat absurd to say in one instance "Ok, you did not do this." and then somewhere else say "Well, it looks like there's a good chance you might have done it, so you're responsible for compensation."
Yes, I understand they are different courts with different standards to meet and brought by different plaintiffs, but it's still (at least somewhat) silly.
Well, the panels would still be worthwhile so long as using them prevents more mess than creating them causes.
I have no idea if that's the case, but I imagine someone around here knows...
The only way to get two spaces in a row is to use because most (all?) browsers turn consecutive whitespace into one space.
Besides, two spaces after a period is for typewriters. For years now the typographic standard has been one space at the end of sentences.
I'm just curious, but which part of beta don't you understand? I'm by no means a zealot, but I mean com'n. Outside of the fact that it's a beta so maybe it just isn't done, if you gave everyone everything in the beta, why would anyone buy the release? Sheesh. Think before you post and save us all the trouble :P
Yeah, but there are really good reasons that iCab is doing better and it isn't just 'cause it's a standalone.
;)
Small memory footprint. It's tiny compared to ie4.5/ie5/ns4.x/moz
Fast. Even without sucking up memory its fast.
Standards compliant (and you can force it to act like ie/ns)
Stable. Sure you get some odd crashes, but it's preview, I'll cut it some slack.
Prefs: This is probably one of my favorites. Someone actually put thought into the modification of plugins, filters, etc.
Now javascript and CSS just need to work
Who said there had to be an applicable point. Sheesh, must everything today be done for some sort of market gain or to outdo something that's been done already? Compilers are good at what they do, why does that mean someone can't undertake a project to learn?
/. is depressing.
And what's wrong with exercising one's brain? Why is it that people are so ready and willing to say "But it has no point!" or "It isn't increasing the share of xx!" Who cares. It's an interesting thing they've done, OSes (even simple ones) are not easy.
It's so unfortunate that doing something to do it is disdained these days. I've got to say, the overwhelmingly negative response to this on
Chris
Actually I think there's a real good possibility that it could fly on solar power. There's already a rather large R&D plane that flies by solar power. The thing has an enormous wing span and is designed to stay aloft up in the higher atmosphere for extended periods of time. Of course, the fact that the top of the wings are covered in solar cells helps.
p lanes/microplanes.html which has some info about the current state of flying spies. It didn't seem that anyone in those projects felt that solar would be the final solution. The equipment used in these devices isn't small enough for the RoboFly, but who knows how much they could eventually scale them. There's some video footage of what the current camera is capable of.
:)
While digging around Discovery Online (I believe it was a Discovery program that I saw the plane on -- yes it was flying) I came across this story http://www.discovery.com/stories/technology/micro
Anyway, the point is that I figure they could fly it with solar power, but I don't know how much else they could get. There's not much surface area to cover.
Of course, since it's "...will be powered..." I doubt they know how they'd do it. Probably hoping there's a way when they get there
Chris
It'd help a lot of those both on /. and those that post to /. would research what they are talking about.
/. to proliferate half-truths.
The G3s are upgradeable. If Apple or a 3rd party company wishes to offer G4 upgrade cards they can, just a little more work. In fact, there is one company that already has working cards (can't remember the name right now). I'm not saying that the firmware decision was a good one, but they never said you could upgrade a G3 to a G4 in the first place. This "story" was out months ago in a number of places. Too bad it took wired.com and
Cameroon
Why stick a better card in? If a better card is desired then someone shelling out x thousand dollars shouldn't have much problem getting the card THEY want instead of whatever apple put in it. Not to mention are we all forgetting that, in general, PCs don't come with a video card AT ALL. Apple's not only been supplying 2d since day 1, but now they give you 3d as well. If it isn't as stellar as you want, get a better card yourself.
Cameroon
This is laughable, do you understand benchmarking? Do you understand that benchmarking is usually pretty pointless? Benchmarks are really poor for comparisons across architectures. That's why you need to use actual applications. Why do you think MIPS means so little?
That's why their tests focused on apps. I'm not saying they showed a wide variety of applications, but what they did show were VALID differences. Not some silly benchmark. If they tried to get more apps to benchmark they'd be as stuck as intel was when their SIMD instructions came out. No one had optimized apps for those. Luckily Metrowerks has at least some support for AltiVec already, shouldn't be too hard for developers to start including AltiVec optimizations.
Learn about benchmarking before you claim it to be reliable and useful.
Cameroon