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Mac OS X 10.4 "Tiger" Preview at WWDC
hype7 writes "Apple just announced that it will kick off WWDC 2004 with a preview of the next iteration of Apple's operating system, Mac OS X, in a Steve Jobs keynote. This version of Mac OS X, 10.4, has been code named 'Tiger.' As usual, Apple is being incredibly tight lipped about what's going to be added; there hasn't even been that much speculation of new features on the rumor sites. WWDC is scheduled to begin on the 28th of June."
I think Steve has a thing for large cats. Whatever happened to the rest of the animal kingdom?
Apple is on a roll! From Cnet:
g =n efd.top
http://news.com.com/2100-1045_3-5205185.html?ta
If Tiger goes on sale this year, it would mark the company's fifth version of Mac OS X in five years. In the same period, Microsoft has released one major version of Windows--XP--along with various updates. Longhorn, the next major release of Windows, is not expected until the middle of 2006, at the earliest.
I hope there is going to be as much improvement in 10.3 -> 10.4 that we saw when Panther was released !
--Ben
mox@NOSPANmox.ca
And as usual they will charge 129.99 for an upgrade. Maybe OS updates should be a subscription thing?
All I can think of is better browsing of Windows/Samba networks. That's it. Panther does everything I need it to do and quietly and competently.
This guy is way out there
Personally, I'd be very pissed off if I had shelled out for a previous upgrade. Maybe my memory is off here, but it seems like these upgrades are as bad as Windows, only with less substantial sounding version number changes.
Kinetic stupidity has a new brand leader: Allen Zadr.
enough with the freaking feline names!!
actually, is there any significance to the group of names. are we supposed to know its a major OS shift when he Jobs changes it to OS Y then OS Y [insert dog breed here]??
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[insert funny
OK,
......
I love my iBook, I love my Cube, but come on!
I can understand why Apple wanted to move forward quickly from the 10 to 10.1 and then to 10.2. These were all big leaps forward to add simple features back in that were missing.
But I can't see why we needed the jump from Jaguar to Panther a year later. 150 new features my arse. Expose, File vault and er er er
I can see NO reason to pay another 79 only a year after Panther. Ask for more, when you have a big update.
I won't buy this one.
K
maybe you are since none of apples upgrades have cost 200 dollars and just about ever upgrade had the support Apple promiced, they might have beta tested other things in the OS that people leaked, but apple never said it was going to do those things in the revision of the OS.
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
when are they going to run out of cats to name their operating system after.
Mac OS point releases seem to have an even-odd curse just like Star Trek movies, only the other way around: the odd-numbered ones are much better. 10.0: unusable. 10.1: a huge improvement. 10.2: eh. 10.3: very nice. So maybe I'll wait for 10.5.
This trend goes back to at least the System 7 days, in my experience.
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
I find it odd how Microsoft is filth by releasing a new OS version every 2 - 3 years, but Apple is awesome for doing it every year.
To the best of my knowledge the cost has remained a constant $129 USD.
- Easier to use
- Faster internet
- Brighter colours
- Fruitier appearance
- More gay appeal
- Longer up-time
- Harder to crack
To me 199$ is as close to 200$ as you can get. As for the rest, last I checked they STILL didn't have full support for the iMac, much less older G3s. That was prommised at the MacOS X release.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
none of apples upgrades have cost 200 dollars
Um, neither have Microsoft's upgrades. And by my math, multiple $99 or $129 Apple upgrades are going to cost more than one $99 or $129 Microsoft upgrade
...and here's why: After this last semester of dealing with linux and windows in the house, cheap x86 hardware, school, and work, I HAVE HAD IT!
i will be buying Apples for both me and my girlfriend and an older dualproc Sun server to chain SCSI drives off of.
I HAVE HAD IT WITH SHIT NOT WORKING OUT OF THE BOX, FIRST TIME! i am not dealing with Windows nor linux for any of our serious design work anymore. i know this a massive linux crowd here, and honestly, i really love linux for my firewall and server stuff and my run Gentoo on the Sun (doubt it though...gentoo-sparc is nice, but Solaris 9/10 it ain't).
i don't have the time to fuck about with things anymore. i have to be able to plug it in, turn it on, and let people get to work. i say more power to Apple and they can have some of my cash too. You take the power of *nix (yes, i know what is under the Apple hood, i'm speaking general here) and put a slick, smooth, beautiful, easy-to-use GUI on top, have Adobe compile the must-have apps for it and i'll buy. Apple has done this. Now i will buy. And no, i don't have loads of cash laying around, i'm going to have to scrape to do this, but you know what? It's worth it.
I would have paid the 100$ just for exposé.
warning, Apple, "Morris" is trademarked by Heinz. as the Beatles so magically wrote, don't go there. Start with Fluffy perhaps, work down through Samantha and Tabby, and maybe by the time we get to Mousebreath you will be ready for OS XI.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
What's Apple's tight-lipped policy got to do with speculation on rumor sites? The two are mutually exclusive.
to Debian PPC on my G4 cube. I'm tired of constantly buying, IMO by far to expensive, new OSX updates. The only thing I'm really going to miss is OmniOutliner.
I wonder if this one will be even faster than Panther. I'm running OS X on a G3/400 iMac at home -- it's a little over five years old at this point. Every release of OS X is faster than the one before.
Looking forward to it. I'm going to WWDC again this year -- hopefully attendees will get free copies like they did for Panther last year.
--saint
You didn't even read the post:
As soon as I heard about Exposé, I knew I was going to get Panther... even though I already had Jaguar. I've now bought five separate versions of OS X (Public Beta, 10.0, 10.1, 10.2, 10.3), and I'm tired of paying for these menial upgrades. Unless there is something truly, ridiculously amazing about "Tiger" I'm not going to pay for it. I'll wait for "Lion" or "Ocelot" or "Leopard" or whatever comes next.
And, yes, I'm just making those names up.
----------
I'm sick and tired of being responsible for the preservation of the universe and its outlying suburbs.
I didn't buy the last one for the same reason. This time, I'll get Tiger. If you don't like buying upgrades constantly, skip a version here and there. Its perfectly acceptable to do so. I think Apple is hoping people will buy new computers every year or so to get the latest OS and hardware as well. Many of us try to support the previous version of MacOS X by compiling our software for it so people like you and I can lag a version behind occassionally.
The point releases Apple makes you pay for are actually worth it, they come with a hell of a lot of improvements that I would never expect Microsoft to have in Windows SP or actually in the release of a whole new version of Windows.
You don't even know what they're offering in this update! How do you know if it's worth it or not? Hold your horses, buster. Wait and see if you have anything to yell about.
There will be one big feature for 10.4 that will be completely necessary for a certain segment of Apple customers: full 64-bit optimization for G5 processors.
That's worth the price alone if you own a G5.
Also, you don't know what other hardware will be announced at the expo either. A portion of their hardware could be moved over to G5 as well. I can easily see iMacs getting a slightly slower G5 processor in the next upgrade. Powerbooks will be a while off, but the rumor sites are churning per usual.
Bear in mind that nobody outside of Apple even knew about Expose until WWDC 2003. If Steve can pull another rabbit like that out of his hat, 10.4 might turn out to be worth it after all.
The big question I'm waiting to answer is whether this will be an incremental update or a major update. Panther added some nice new functionality Fast User Switching, Expose (which I don't use nearly as much as I thought I would the first time I saw it), and better networking support. It was a tough call but I believe it was worth the upgrade, fast user switching alone has made my life a lot easier.
What's left, quite a lot actually. The Finder for one thing could use a lot of enhancements. Forgoing the whole brush metal fiasco, I care little about, there is the whole underlying functionality. Why is it that the OS can't update the window's contents without being pushed to do it. This is something that is fundamentally critical to an operating system. Additionally browsing folders across a network with a large number of files in it is painfully slow, and I'm talking my 100MB network at home.
Lastly I would like to see a decent integrated development environment. XCode is a nice upgrade from previous tools but I'd still like to be able to work on the GUI and on code at the same time. CASE tools have come a long way, but Apple's tools still have a very antiquated feel about them.
Sir, there is a dragon outside with an armful of armor. He's inquiring if we offer free refills.
And with Windows you at least get the extra popups, popunders and the worms :)
The Independent: Reverend Spooner Arrested in Friar Tuck Incident - ISIHAC, Historical Headlines
Apple is very kind. When I brought in my iBook for repair because of that nasty Logic Board problem, Apple serviced and delivered my computer free of charge for me. On top of that, they sent me a copy of Panther when the repairs were over. Apple must be selling their operating systems not based solely on a profit basis. I would assume that the reason Apple is charging the $130 for each "upgrade" of their operating systems (they are not upgrades but full versions only) is because they assume that the only people buying them are not upgrading, but buying from scratch. It would be interesting for Apple to set up a "n-year upgrade program" where you get every release of your particular OS for those n years. They are already doing that for their server operating systems.
There is a downside to a new release every year... less and less ROI for current users. I guess we'll have to wait and see the new feature set.
What people do you know that buy a new car every year? Personally, I'm sick of this analogy. Software can be added to an existing computer - that's what computers do. To charge a large price for an upgrade that you really will need to get, is wholly wrong.
There are hundreds of software packages now that only run on 10.3 and higher. The same will be true for 10.4. There are certainly no "new roads" that my car can't drive on. And if there are, they certainly won't fully switch-over for at least 20 years (not 9 to 18 months like Apple expects).
Kinetic stupidity has a new brand leader: Allen Zadr.
Great, another two months of speculations and roumors...
The 70,000 Viruses for WinBlows... For MacOSX ZERO...
MacOSX, because making *NIX better is a lot better than waiting for Micro$loth to fix Windows
Panther added longevity to my old G4 400mhz machine. It feels relatively fast. I'm looking forward to the next upgrade. 129 bucks is well worth it for the considerable upgrades and improvments that occur with each 10.x release.
Yes! I listen to NYC Speedcore and do math at 3AM. I suggest you try it too.
Wil Wheaton Dot Com?
I agree. Expose alone was worth the cost of upgrading because it's enhanced my productivity.
I'm in the hole of the broadband donut.
Standard Mac Reply(tm).
"But you get more with a new version of OS/x than you do a windows service pack."
And as a relatively new mac user coming from a windows/linux background, it's true. You get the same updates as you do via windows update for security fixes, etc etc. Most windows service packs however (with the exception of the upcoming xpsp2 that is) are essencially the previous bug fixes all rolled into one.
Contrasting this, the incremental updates for MacOS (10.2, 10.3) are more than hotfixes but less than a completely new os. Generally they contain new apps, improvements in existing apps (not just performance or bug fixes either) such as the new 'find as you type', expose, ichat, etc.
That said, I'd love to see the *real* next gen apple offerings, ie: OS 11, as the "new" OSs that have come out in the os 10 line have really been evolutionary, not revolutionary, as longhorn promises to be. Of course, redmond is making a lot of promises about longhorn, and it's a "I'll believe it when I see it" situation for me.
Do I *WANT* to pay for an upgrade every year? No.
Do I *HAVE* to pay for an upgrade every year? No.
However, who on earth can blame Apple for launching new releases on a regular basis and charging for them. If they don't have enough features to justify *YOU* paying for them (it is, after all, completely subjective), then don't get it. Wait until enough releases go by that you feel justified. On the flip side, Apple is trying to make money and apparently there are enough people willing to pay for these annual releases to encourage Apple to keep doing it.
I'm not sure how many they sell each year, but if they waited every 2-3 years, that's a TON of money being left on the table that a TON of consumers are apparently more than willing to part with.
Enjoy,
Andy
So how does Steve Jobs pronounce 'tiger'? I'm guessing "tig-wire".
You don't pay the full price for an upgrade. If you purchased an Mac withing about a year of when 10.3 was released the upgrade was like $20. And even paying for the full install OSX is still cheaper than Windows.
There goes another $130... and I'm more than happy to pay it.
The package said "Windows XP or better. Pentium Class Processor or better"... So I got a Mac with OS X
what is a link to find more about the changes that 10.4 is going to update.
I don't care about the conference. How is this software going to improve my computing experience?
Its obvious they are moving towards "Lion" along with all of the "King of the Jungle" monikers it implies.
(Whoa Simba!)
I imagine that the release date will be at least a year from WWDC. They have been setting the release dates about 18 months apart. This is the developers conference of course they are going to pull out the next OS and preview it. Oh and two paid updates in the past 5 years each of which has been a significant advancement is worth $250 dollars.
10.0 was available for free from CompUSA stores, possibly others too. 10.1 was a free upgrade. 10.3 is available for about $90 if you search on froogle.
So...It's been announced that Steve Jobs will announce what will eventually be in 10.4.
I don't know what's more disturbing, that this is a story or that my heart started beating faster as I read it.
Triv
Could somebody please tell me whether they've pam_ified LoginWindow on OS X after 1.28? What's the point of including pam in your system, linking ssh and the rest of them against it, but not linking LoginWindow (the main login screen on OSX) to pam, thus making it useless for centralizing authentication.
pam_smb works a treat on OSX, I can authenticate ssh logins to our NT domain, but the actual local login window on OSX takes not a blind bit of notice of pam, making it not-so-useful.
I suppose we won't see Tony being the mascot, will we?
I won't buy this one.
Um, ok, that's great. Good for you. Have a cookie.
Why are these articles filled with people saying, "I won't buy it"? Who gives a crap? Don't buy it!
Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
Mac OS 10.4 will certainly at least have full 64-bit optimizations for the G5 processors. This is trivial to get considering OS X is a UNIX derivative. If you've got a G5, 10.4 will be for you.
Hopefully they'll also announce some new G5 hardware to go along with the OS upgrade.
That is the Word right there, my brother! My last straw was when I got my wife a laptop for her grad school work, decided I'd put Linux + OO.org on it for her. She likes her music, and listens to headphones while she works. Long story short, I found out that in order to get Linux to work with the laptop's (proprietary) soundcard, I would have had to recompile the freaking kernel.
Uh-uh. No thank'ee. I ain't got neither the desire nor the time for that shit. I just want something that freaking WORKS.
So I installed WinXP on the laptop, and got myself a G5 last year. Happy I am.
You're also paying a lot less in terms of machine downtime as opposed to Windows - less restarts, fewer "Critical Updates," a lot fewer worms/virii/trojans, and a far more secure machine that doesn't have everything and its cousin integrate into the kernel/shell for no apparent reason except to garner control over what the user does.
Striking fear in the authors of godawful fanfiction, I am here, appearing in darkness, Tuxedo Jack!
I'm in the hole of the broadband donut.
Yes. Why, do you want me to tell you?
Why do you care how much I pay for my OS of choice?
Karma Schmarma
why does everyone complain about the price... apple gives you the full OS not just an updater, you can full install or update... for the 129$ MS upgrade price for xp pro is 199$ and full version is 300$... thats a big price difference if you ask me. just going by prices all other things aside... sure apple puts out more releases but noone forces you to use them, i have panther on my main desktop and jaguar on the others and everything is fine, just becuase its out doenst mean you Have to have it like the windows world makes you think that you do. if you like the features in the new apple os you get it, if not you live with what you have and chances are most everything will work on your version Os for a long time to come.
Tiger will include Spoken Interface. The integration of aural tools into the OS (instead of tacking on screen readers) will be a major improvement over both the current Mac and Windows systems and a huge boon to users with a visual handicap or motor skill impairment.
Apple has had a chance to updates its OS every year because they haven't had to worry about security in their OS. I'm sure Microsoft could have done the same thing, if they had a secure OS. I honestly won't mind paying for this updates (If I have to I will but I'm getting my iBook close to when Tiger will be released).
Everyone bitches about shelling out money for an upgrade every year. If you don't like it, don't upgrade. The difference between MS and Apple updates is Apple updates actually have new features. MS's are bugfixes, that's why they are free. Older versions of Apple's OS are still supported. If you want the new features, you would have to pay for them, just like the upgrade from win2k to XP to 2003.
In any case, if you want to save yourself the money, just do what I do and buy a new machine everytime they come out with an OS upgrade. It's just like getting $130 off the price of the machine because it comes with the new OS, and then sell your old box on ebay. As long as you do it every year, you lose almost nothing.
Need Free Juniper/NetScreen Support? JuniperForum
and I have full iMac 400 mhxz slot load support, as well as my two (one upgraded the other stock 300mhz) B/W G3's which work great, better than they ever did with OS 9.
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
Why does this anger you so? If you don't buy it, you haven't lost anything except the fact that you can't say you have the latest and greatest. Is that enough to get you perturbed?
The fact that they're to the point that the upgrades are feature additions rather than bug fixes, badly needed speed fixes, and corrections of bad designs of previous features is a good thing. So unlike before, you don't have to feel like you need to buy a major upgrade anymore. And again, unlike before, you would actually be buying the new upgrades for more stuff rather than shelling out for glorified software support. Just get every other major upgrade and call it good.
As for the money grabbing (we call it money grubbing), they've said in the past they plan to release a new major upgrade every year so Mac owners can feel like they have a new machine without putting down another $1000 or so. So get ready to be all upset every year.
I think you got the name wrong. The codename is actually 'Tigger'. Rather fitting with the GUI being all cartoon-like anyway.
Religion is for people afraid of going to hell.
Here's why Apple needs to charge whereas Microsoft doesn't:
Given these reasons, Apple can either charge you for their OS updates, or increase the price of their products, or start to lose money. And as other people have said, you don't *need* to buy the update; often 1 update every 2 years is plenty even if you have to have the cutting edge software.
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
People will tend to show loyalty to a [computer|operating system|productivity package|device|office chair], until they don't want to any more. When something breaks, they'll either persevere and stick it out through the problem (replacing the troublesome part if need be) or, as is often the story, they've had it with this POS and will jump ship as soon as they have the money and find something which they think will be more reliable.
It's not unique to Apple switchers, either. Sometimes people get fed up and go to Windows. Or they get fed up with both and move to Linux. Or they get sick of Linux and move back to what burned them least the last time. It's called turnover, people. Microsoft could give away puppies. Apple could give away chocolate-covered gold ingots on a stick. Michael Dell himself could give each and every loyal (and willing) customer a BJ. Turnover may approach, but will never equal, zero.
Computer companies can try to lock in customers using whatever proprietary mechanisms they want, but if users still struggle enough against those locks (cough*LONGHORN*cough), they will still jump ship and cut their considerable losses -- a process not unlike an animal gnawing off its own leg to escape a trap. The best defense against customers leaving is to create a product that will least likely drive the customer away in the first place. That means quality control, reliability, and user experience.
That would seem to be Apple, but sooner or later everybody gets fed up with something.
You cannot truly appreciate Dilbert until you read it in the original Klingon.
Finder is the top listing. So, you couldn't find files before? No tool to help you seek what you are looking for? Yes, yes there was. What does this top listed improvement give me? Hint: Pretty Icon layout. How much was that worth?
Yet, I see software out there that says 10.3 is a minimum requirement. So, it's not really a voluntary upgrade if you need to run any of the latest software packages.
Oh wait, this new feature is worth it, Expos'e. The official description, "Exposé lets you instantly see all your open windows at once". O.K. that's cool, I've seen it, and it's neat. Again... more Eye candy. How much is THIS feature worth?
Email? ... Prettier.
C-U-See-Me functionality? Not new, just new packaging.
They seem to run out of things to talk about at this point on the page. Hmm.
Anything else, I must guess, were performance improvements or bug fixes. These should rightly have been included as updates to the previous version. Perhaps Apple's stupid mistake is in not describing the value in the upgrades that they offer?
My point is that now that 10.4 is about to ship, what is it really giving the consumer? Will there be more software that ships out as 10.4 or higher? If so, do they really need something that 10.4 offers, or is it merely a ploy to sell the "upgrade"? I really am curious about this.
Kinetic stupidity has a new brand leader: Allen Zadr.
They ought to suck up the price of the upgrade and roll it into their .Mac subscriptions. Make it cheaper to get .Mac + the upgrade vs. just the upgrade alone.
Is this when we finally get to use that sheet of three paper coupons that came in the shipping box with all new Macs throught the 1990s? Remember, the ones that indicated the OS we'd bought and which said they'd be used for upgrades, but NEVER WERE?!
Windows XP Pro Upgrade cost $199. By my math, that's pretty damned close to $200 .
I am a recent convert and I am *utterly* pleased with 10.3. With that being said, there are a couple things I'd like to see improved/fixed:
1. Give me the option to have my quoted text in Mail.app appear at the top of my cursor when replying to an email. Few types of miscreant are worse than top-posters, and Apple doesn't need to be aiding and abetting.
2. Speed. I'll take OS X over Linux/X11 or XP any day of the week, but I'd love to see XP's responsiveness in the Tiger GUI. Again, I prefer the stability to the speed, but having both would be rich.
3. As mentioned, SMB interoperability can use some tweaking in the areas of both speed and ease of use.
4. This is sacrilegious, but the Finder still isn't there for me. I *hate* the spacing of the icons in icon view (they are like 3 feet apart), and the viewing of directories and files simply isn't as intuitive to me as it is in XP. Pathfinder does a much better job, in my opinion.
dmiessler.com -- grep understanding knowledge
That sig is awesome.
Yes, that is all
I've got more mod points and GMail invi
..but lots of people telling me why I don't need one.
Funny how that works.
Tabby", "Calico", and "American Shorthair" are not exactly going to make Bill Gates tremble in awe.
I don't know. If a monocle and a persian cat are good enough for a Bond Villain (or Bill Gates himself), they oughta be good enough for me.
Tweet, tweet.
How dare they make improvements to an unbroken OS and have the gall to charge for it. And they even charged for every critical security upgrade as well... wait.
" It just keeps getting better and better."
Well, based on 10.0, and 10.1, they could hardly get *worse*.
Its still bloated and slow. I personally like it, but I don't understand why opening a Windows on a 900mhz G3 512M is like molasses in January.
I guess I need to chuck my PB and "think different".
Am I the only one hoping for full 64bit libraries that will allow one process to access more than 4GB of memory?
What about hoping that 10.4 is the setup and a dual 3GHz will be the big announcement?
Apple doesn't sell upgrades. That $129 gets you a full version of the OS. You can sell your old version on ebay if you want; you won't need it to install 10.4
What else Apple doesn't give you: Product Activation. They don't even require a serial number or product key. Just put the CD in the drive and go.
You can tell a great deal about the character of a man by observing those who hate him.
Everytime Apple announces that, *gasp*, there will be an update to MacOS X, the same camp of people comes running out, crying about how awful it is. Let's get straight to the point: If you don't like it, DON'T BUY IT!
You'd think these people would figure that out, but appearantly not. I bought 10.1 and 10.2 and 10.3 because I *liked* them. You don't have to buy it if you think it's too expensive. Do you guys whine when Apple releases new desktop machines?
"Oh geez! Look at Apple! Now I have to spend another thousand dollars. *whine whine* Everytime I buy a new computer, they have to go and make a faster/better one. *cry* *whine*."
Get real. I don't buy new books everytime a new edition comes out. Puh.
Warning: This post may contain gratuitous expletives. If you are offended by such material, please do not continue reading this post. Thanks. I thought this kind of "contract" was invalid? Or is it just a warning. Either way, it's a little late now, [multiple expletives deleted].
"Um, ok, that's great. Good for you. Have a cookie."
We all chip in to buy one copy and then make our own copies.
That way, the service packs, er, "New Point Release" only costs us about $20 each. Which is closer to its worth.
Apple can charge whatever it wants, we're only payign 1/6th each anyway. I understand some suckers actually pay the $130/year apple tax, but you'd have to be a chump to do that.
Apple's OS releases have always been evolutionary. For that matter, you could say the same of any OS really. OS 6 to 7 was the last "revolutionary" change for apple before OS9 to OS X, and that was a switch from 68k to PPC code. Everything else has always been evolutions of the previous OS. This isn't a bad thing, consistancy is something people like. A lot of people didn't like (and still don't) OS X because it doesn't look like the old OS and doesnt' behave like it in some places. A complete revolution every year or even every 2 years would be disasterous for Apple or any other software company.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
- More gay appeal
- Longer up-time
- Harder to crack
Wouldn't that be "Easier to crack"?
If it has more gay appeal, then the correct feature would be "Bigger crack".
I'll pay the $100 for 1.4 if they remove exposé :)
Ack. Everyone one I know puts exposé in the "cool idea but impossible to use" category. Whatever floats your boat.
So here's a question: Why is it that while the OSes are named for large cats, the O'Reilly books on things Mac-related all feature dogs on the covers?
I realize there are 3rd party for some of these things, but 3rd party doesn't usually integrate as well.
> The reason that people aren't pissed is because > each new version of OSX is a lot better than
> the previous version. It just keeps getting
> better and better.
Same thing applies for Windows, every version has been better than the last. THAT is not an excuse.
Bottom line is always the same: if you had changed the name of Apple by Microsoft, people would have been making the usual comments.
Apple does it and we get "Well, every version is better."
Bleet, little sheeples...bleet.
Releasing new versions of OS X in the fall does very little for Apple's educational sales, other than hurt them. I have real issues buying OSX Panther this summer, only to see Tiger released in the fall. I get no time to do the testing that might have been possible were they to release updates in early or late spring. Switching an OS in the middle of the year is out of the question; moreso if only one year goes by before an update occurs. At best, we can afford a software refresh once every two. I'm glad I don't have to worry about a lot of Macs considering this timetable...but Apple, once the head of the education market, isn't making it easy for educational sysadmins to love them.
Never look down your nose at others. Someday, someone is bound to see your boogers.
Um, ok, that's great. Good for you. Have a cookie. Why are these articles filled with people saying, "I won't buy it"? Who gives a crap? Don't buy it!
I actually am going to buy it- I just said I wouldn't for the cookie!
Yours truly, Pavlov.
Microsoft announced in a press confrence today that they will include a tube of super lube with there new OS, codenamed "Longhorn", to ease the stress from being [insert choice word] with new restrictions. "We feel that the inclusion of this vital piece of hardware with our OS will make this the most use friendly verson of Windows yet!" Commented Bill Gates as he pull his head out of his own [Insert choice word]. As for this reporter, I will be switching to Linux and Mac PC's.
Mac OS X 10.3.3 is a nice start, but Apple has a long way to go before the goods match the hype.
looks like the trolls are quite active on kuro5hin as well.
I work as a system administrator for a small non-profit. I have enough work and dealing with configuration of yet another Linux box is not something that I would like to do on my free time. Do not get me wrong, I love what I do for living; however, I do not want to do my work at work and at home.
When I switched to Mac OS X I was fairly pleased with the fact that I could work from home on a system with a stable GUI that hasn't crashed on me in more than one and a half years. I can do all my work on a system that does not require a lot of maintenace; that increses my productivity. I am impressed by the quality of Xcode and how much you can do with it without installing a ton of new things. I can do OpengL programming, write user interfaces and do all sorts of things out of the box -- install Xcode and you're a done! Did I mention well-integrated Java support?
With that in mind, I am looking forward to the new version of the operating system that I love to use. However, I hope that Apple incudes more than new icons and new GUI features in 10.4. Here is my small wish list:
Update CVS to the most recent version.
Add better group and user management. For example, make sure that every user is a member of 'staff' and the admin user is a member of 'staff' and 'wheel.' It would be cool if UNIX inclined people could have a set of advanced options when it comes to user creation.
Fix passwd. I would like to use it in order to change my passwords; it is faster for me that way. I am sure that this command can be updated to change my KeyChain password.
Add more fonts.
Add tabbed sessions for Terminal. I know that there is iTerm, but it choked on me way too many times. I like Terminal better.
Add virtual desktops as a part of the window manager.
Provide a stable front end to firewall that supports both TCP and UDP rules. Currently, only TCP traffic can be managed.
Well, I guess that is it for 10.4.
Why do you feel people shouldn't question Apple's pricing policies? Are they so special that we should be blessed apple is willing to selling it to us? Or do you think that by criticizing apple, it weakens them in their fight against all that is impure and unjust in this world?
Really, why is apple immune from criticism on something that is a valid commn?
If you're paying an annual fee for something on an 18-month update cycle, you're going to have years where you pay the full subscription price for an an idle year.
Or, the vendor is going to feel compelled to deliver something that approximates the value, and bend the development schedule out of shape to force a release, usually at the cost of quality. (Been there, done that, still have the t-shirt.)
So far, I think Apple has done a pretty good job of adding value to each release.
Since there are many people wining about the high cost of Apple's OS updates, they should look into the volume licensing options that Apple offers. There is pricing for both busines & academic needs.
The only caviat that goes with the Maintenance Aggreement is that you must own the currently released version of Mac OS X in order to qualify (e.g. if you were to buy now you must already own 10.3). However, if you purchase this product at the same time you buy your hardware then you're already met this requirement.
Below is the pricing for Mac OS X Client. For a one time purchase you are covered for the next 36 months (3 years) of Major product releases (e.g. 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, 10.4, etc.) Of course minor updates 10.x.y are at no charge as normal. Apple also offers Maintenance Agreements for MacOS X Server as well.
Mac OS X Maintenance Agreements -- Business Store
Mac OS X Maintenance Agreements -- Higher Education
So the long story short, for those people who feel the absolute need to upgrade everytime that Apple releases a major release, see if you can purchase their Maintenance products. You'll find they're very affordable, and in many cases makes updating every year cheaper in the long run then purchasing the product to begin with, especially if you qualify for the Education pricing.
Apple spends loads of money paying an army of developers, designs, testers, managers, artists, support staff, etc. to develop these new releases. It costs money to run a business. Most businesses like to have income to offset the costs, and if they can, reap a profit which they can reinvest in their products. It's not like they're taking your $130 and buying golden toilet paper to wipe their asses with.
I paid $20 or 30 for the Public Beta, I got a kickass new OS to play with. I paid I don't remember how much for 10.0 and got a mediocre (but still better) version of the OS. I got the 10.1 upgrade for free at the Apple Store (score!) and finally had a truly usable version of Mac OS X. I paid $130 for 10.2 and got a kick-ass version of Mac OS X. I paid $130 for 10.3 and I've been totally wowed by it. 10.3 breathed new life into old hardware. Each time my money went towards making the next release even better.
Apple has every right to charge for their OS. Whether you agree with $130 being worth it is irrelevent. Just because you can get Free Software for free, does NOT mean ALL software should be free. Yes, it'd be nice if they had an upgrade version, but the last time they did that it was poorly devised and you could rip the CD, remove a single file from the image, and re-burn a full installer CD, which obviously cost them money.
If you want an upgrade version, make your voice heard. Go to http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback and let them know what you think.
Gabriel Ricard
Anyone know what the changes will be in 10.4?
Apple did say they wanted to focus/improve on the speech capability of OSX (voice commands, voice recognition, speech synthesis, etc), but I'm not sure if that was something they were working on for this release. However, the current OSX (Panther) already has something that sort of works.
Little Bricklets
MS is notorious about ensuring that their OSes have insane backwards compatibility. By and large, one can run Windows 3.x applications on Windows XP without breakage. Apple, on the other hand, seems to love breaking legacy app and hardware support for no real reason, I wonder how much will break when 10.4 will come out...
Marxism is the opiate of dumbasses
Yeargh. Our CEO pointed this out to me today, and couldn't understand why I burst into tears.
We have two Xserves and a G4 tower running Server 10.2.8... They have been tweaked for our workflow (which involves a mix of open and comercial software), and I haven't the time/energy to worry about an appropriate upgrade strategy yet (IT department of 1). I've just recently made sense of the workflow and gotten most of the cruft out or documented... and now I'm expected to upgrade (not from Crapple, but my fanboy boss...)?
I wish they (Apple) would change their naming conventions and release schedules to reflect the drastic difference between client machine needs and improvements and needs of server software... I hate upgrading production servers (Apple has been a little on the cavalier side when it comes to "their" config files) but I am willing to do it every two to three years, and have few qualms about various hotfixes and security patches they release.
But every year? Isn't that a bit much?
grump grump grump
[NOTE: There is no specific mention of Mac OS X Tiger Server, but they've been releasing Server a few months after client since 10.1 came out. So there.]
QA implies some kind of quality to begin with.
You can already do that
When I turn on Windows file sharing, it works great, but will not see mounted volumes (i.e. my firewire hard drive). All you can see is a blank file (which would be the symbolic link in OS X). PLEASE fix this!
If it's a cobranded version of Windows themed to look like Aqua... I'll shoot myself in the face with my own d**k.
But seriously. I'm hoping for better performance (always a plus), gui enhancements, and perhaps making Safari use Gecko rather than KHTML?
yea, I'm a Mozilla geek.
But it's actually critical to consider the switch. As in the news, Microsoft is looking to really lock users into Windows. So Mozilla and GNOME are working together to create a free alternative to use Avalon, XAML.
So it may be critical for Apple to either forge a relationship with Mozilla, or get KDE cracking away.
Either way, I predict something along those lines. I've got to think about the options more, and perhaps blog later.
Steve is really testing the psychological limits of economics here.
going from 10.0 to 10.1 was pretty big, 10.1 to 10.2 was huge, but 10.2 to 10.3 wasn't as substantial.... so there is expose, access to some updated apps, big deal. Then we were faced with iLife becoming a pay for use suite, which wasn't of much use for me since I'm on a g3 without a dvdr drive, but that move took a lot of value out of the OS and placed it into new hardware purchases.
Apple is squeezing every last dollar it can- as any good company should I suppose. But I think if he keeps up this trend he is going to see adoption rates for the new OS start to fall and start to fall in line with the adoption trends in the windows market (where most people buy the new os bundled with their pc purchase).
If Steve wants to avoid that scenario he really needs to add more value. I know a lot of you zealots are saying panther was a big deal, I'm sorry but it wasn't at all- and I am pretty skeptical right now that Steve can take a stable, fully functioning OS and really add enough features to wow everyone.
Sounds like it's pretty good in the sack.
I thought the same thing when it first came out, but once I got used to it being there, it has become wuite the invaluable tool. I could survive without it, but I often have so many windows/apps open at once that I don't want to imagine life w/out expose now.
This space for rent...
You know, it seems to me that Apple picks a theme when working on thier new minor releases.
Just think, 10.2 = Configuration. It had like Rendevous
10.3 = Consumer Usability
Garage Band
iChat AV
Expose
Fast User Switching
The answer is obvious: they will name their next major OS release "Pussycat", and attract all the geeks from Slashdot to pay whatever premium they ask. It's not like readers around here get much free pussy ya know. There will be those obligatory GnuCat zealots, as usual, but majority will just cough up the cash.
OS 11 is the two towers release... I saw a demo, and that 'eye' of Cupertino feature is kinda scary
I'm agnostic- I was a TRS-Dos Z-80 developer in my teens. I spent my twenties as a registered Apple developer in love with my Quadra. I even had a short affair with a 300 lb Microvax. Now I support Windows on the desktops, manage Linux in the fishbowl and run various ixish distros at home. Maybe its been previously apparent to the rest of the community here, but I just noticed a particular trend for the first time. 1. Each new version of Windows has always made given h/w seem slower 2. Each new version of Mac OS has made given h/w seem slower 3. I'm moving from Redhat to Gentoo because RH has become more like Windows as far as h/w utilization
My concern is that apple will keep this pace up but run out of steam. Soon they'll start adding tons of bloat to the OS just to keep up on releasing new features. Will Apple eventually slow down and start working more on speed, reliability and security instead of trying to do the radical release every year thing?
Just my concern,
Geoffeg
speculation only, but I wouldn't be surprised
OS 6 to 7 marked the change of most of the OS's source from 68k ASM to C. Version 8 was when they switched from 68k to PPC. 8.5 introduced HFS+. Version 9 introduced Carbon, and 10 has Cocoa and other Frameworks. All of these changes were under-the-hood, but they enabled revolutionary changes once programmers started to use them well.
The OS got a facelift in 7 (I think), 8 (Platinum), and 10 (Aqua and now whatever they call the brushed-metal). I'm too young to remember before OS 6, but I remember that it looked slightly different from 7.
If I'm wrong here, someone correct me. If I'm right, please confirm it.
Windows XP Pro upgrade does NOT cost "$199." Hell, the full version of Windows XP costs $99.99 at my store, and the upgrade is $59.99.
Exposé doesn't do it for me either. It's a cool feature, and every once in a while I'll use it, but I'd trade it in a second for built-in virtual desktops. (The third-party virtual desktop programs are okay, but none that I've tried act like the ones I'm used to using in Xwindows.)
So the OS X 10.4 will be compiled by GCC3.4? And if there won't be a GCC 3.5, will there be a OS X 10.5?
There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
I can't imagine the woes I'll go through once Longhorn is released (2050)
When Longhorn comes out in 2006, and all the new PCs run it, and their old apps run just fine, will you come on Slashdot and post that you were wrong? Just curious.
I see a new vague future prediction made on Slashdot in every article. I can only laugh, because it reminds me of every vague future prediction made in 1999, 2000, 2001, etc. that never came true.
Here, Here!
There's no compelling reason to upgrade -- as in, you are not compelled to upgrade. Apps I used to use under 10.1 work under 10.2, work under 10.3. I'd still be perfectly productive using 10.1 -- I just wouldn't be grinning quite as broadly.
I like the improvements Apple has made in its iLife suite. Along with Safari and Mail.app, they've become consumers of the vast majority of my CPU cycles. The most recent versions of iMovie, iDVD, iPhoto require 10.3 -- and the improvements are worth the price. Don't want these upgrades? Don't buy Panther.
Now I've got to start working on upgrading the hardware. I'm starting to see the limits to which one can push a G4/350...
The cure for cancer is coming: Reovirus
Get him, he's threatening our hegemony!
$130 for something you use 365 days of the year. If it really brings useful improvements, I don't see why you wouldn't want to upgrade. But, if you don't want to, there's nothing that says you have to upgrade every time a new one is available.
mbbac
Microsoft used to add features via service packs, but stopped doing it around the time of NT 4.0 SP5, as it got to be a hassle to manage (especially for the corporate clients). At that time they said they'd only add new functionality with point-releases (although they've slipped a bit in recent months). Their reasoning is that service packs are for bug-fixes, and releases are for new functionality.
Chip H.
It seems fair for me to say so. I have spen a bomb on OSX so far. I stayed with Apple throughout the misery of the past. I bought .0, .1, .2, .3 but I won't buy .4. I won't because I want them to get off this yearly update cycle.
I am but one person, I can't stop Apple but I can influence through my buying habbits
. . . this service pack set the faithful back? $129 again, or a bit more this time?
Anybody with a lick of sense will just copy it from their friends.
Or do you think everybody is a sucker?
Many years ago (mid 90's) a friend I worked with (in a building full of PC's) would be humming along on his lone Mac. This was back in the pre-OS X days.
I would be cursing and he would be happy. I would be cranky and he would be... well you get the drift. Finally I said "yeah, it is a nice machine, but it costs so much!"
He said, "Buy one and you will never complain about the cost again."
So I did. And guess what? I stopped worrying so much about "Why does this no longer work?". I just worked.
Today I have five (including the iBook). And NOW I can spend the time to install things because I WANT to, not because the piece of dreck won't work like I want it to without it.
IANAL, but I've seen actors play them on TV
Anyone got the shinny on whether there'll be drivers & compiler for the new shading language? I'd speculate that they'll do so to stay on the leading edge of open standards. Only 3dlabs has a compiler for windows & linux now, and apparently there is some buggy support for ati.
"Apple has every right to charge for their OS"
They can charge whatever they want. Fine. Great.
"Whether you agree with $130 being worth it is irrelevent."
No, it affects my decision as to whether I'll buy or just download from P2P. For $40-50, I'll buy. For $130, I'll download it.
If that bothers you, I suggest you find a large bucker of water, and hold you head in this bucket of water until you stop twitching. Because whether or not you agree with me is irrelevant.
I suggest you don't tell apple, and just stop paying this yearly subscription fee. Whack apple where it hurts, in their rapidly dwindling market share. Let them sell iPods to make a living, let the screw off the last 3% loyal to the company. I just don't care any more.
Yeah, I was also not a fan of the metallic Finder windows. FYI, you can make them look more like the old ones if you hide the toolbar (click the button in the upper right-hand corner of the window). Granted, the sidebar (which I find very useful) also disappears, but beggars can't be choosers, I guess.
Disclaimer: This comment was generated by a Flock of Trained Microsoft Programmers for Aqua_Geek.
Microsoft is a convicted monopoly, and Apple isn't
Agreed. But Apple runs a thorough monopoly on its hardware. You switch from an OS monopoly to a hardware one. Which one is worse?
You know, it's funny. I never used it when I had to use the function keys, but now that I have it mapped to a hot corner (the upper left), I use it all the time. Just slam the mouse up there, see all the open windows, choose one, and I'm there. Hot-cornering it made all the "usability" difference for me. Nice.
Yup. I sold my copy of 10.2 for about $70 on eBay, which makes my upgrade cost, even paying the full $129 when 10.3 came out, about $69. I'll gladly pay that every year if the upgrades are as rockin' as the jump from 10.2 to 10.3 was.
People always misunderstand the Apple versioning scheme. At least since the release of OSX, a .0.1 update is equivalent to a Windows Service Pack. A .1 update is equivalent to the difference between Windows 95 to 98, 98 to Millenium Edition, NT to 2000, or 2000 to XP- in other words, same underlying codebase/technology, various bugfixes, added features, interface/code refinements/enhancements being sold as a "new operating system". When they go to OS 11, we can assume that it'll be as major an upgrade to OSX as WindowsXP would be to Windows 95.
Dear Apple, PLEASE STOP INNOVATING! Thanx, John Q. Public.
I want
improved Finder I think all Mac OS X users will agree with me better feature parity between Cocoa and Carbon every release improves this for older features, but every release also adds new features to one or the other w/o adding them to both better integration of Cocoa and Carbon Let me put an HIView in an NSWindow (no, the child window workaround is no good, because it doesn't work with keyboard navigation and it causes visual oddities such as disabling controls or taking away key window status.). And let me create custom menus in Cocoa. rpc.quotad I'm setting up an Xserve (w/ 3.5 TB Xserve RAID) running Mac OS X Server to serve files via NFS to some Solaris boxesThere's more, but I can't remember all of it right now.
-- Tim Buchheim
So, the article doesn't mention when they're going to "release the tiger" yet, eh?
I plan to buy it, but can I still have a cookie?
--- Ban humanity.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanb/documents/quotingguide. html
http://dui.debian.net/dui/TopPosting
http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html
One of the most irritating things for me is when somebody asks me a question and quotes my e-mail, which contains the answer. The original message is always at the bottom, which indicates that the topposter didn't read it.
You are clearly an ignorant Troll that has never actually used a Mac. I have not had a Kernel panic since I started using the Beta of MacOSX. unlike my XP Pro machine I'm fucked over with at work, it crashes 5-10 times a week, and it was just built from OEM disks 2 months ago....
MacOSX, because making *NIX better is a lot better than waiting for Micro$loth to fix Windows
Not being a part of that market, I may be off base here, but...
Even in corporate environments, it makes sense to stay behind the curve*. I would think in education it'd be just as important: far more bugs will be fixed; incompatibilities will be ironed out; wider selection of good books available; etc. If Tiger is released mid-school-year, that means even more time to test, and fewer problems by the time you can get to testing it (assuming that little thing called "Summer Vacation").
Now, if you just want to get your mits on it at the school's expense, that's an entirely different matter. :-)
*not counting patches for worms and such
I also remember something about the totally spoken interface making headlines on some of the Mac sites a month or two back. would be great for the disabled users out there...
MacOSX, because making *NIX better is a lot better than waiting for Micro$loth to fix Windows
I saw a usenet post from Jordan (of FreeBSD fame and maintainer of the BSD subsystem in OS X) saying he wanted to call the next release of OS X "Feral Tabby".
I like it. Not that I think a feral tabby can take down a tiger but by golly the tiger may lose an eye before he gulps down an alley tom with an unpleasant disposition.
I picture the box somewhat like Jaguar where the 'X' looks covered in Jaguar fur - except that the fur it all crusty and matted with a few fleas thrown in for good measure.
You're wrong on several points:
* System 6 was written mostly in Pascal.
* The first PowerPC systems shipped with System 7.1.
* The HFS Extended file system was introduced with OS 8.1.
-Apple System Developer Team until 1997 (fuck you, Steve!)
Haha, you fools! It amuses me to read about how you have to pay for new updates with new features! I laugh when I read about expose and X11 integration and performance improvements! Dance puppets dance!
(Can I join?)
it was being called merlot. or some other wine name. the tiger thing is a pretty recent change...
Will Apple's built in screen reader be any better that the Windows screen reader that comes with the OS? Just having a screen reader does not make everything better for those who need it. Apple needs to produce a USABLE screen reader.
Having come from the UNIX system V school of thought, I fully understand the differences between minor and major change versions.
Microsoft has that part right. Talk up the benefits of even the most low level changes. Even if we don't understand it fully, they will percieve that something of value has changed.
Kinetic stupidity has a new brand leader: Allen Zadr.
Now what I want to know is, did apple ever use the MMU available in most of its 32 bit 680x0 processors? Or by the time they discovered the wonder of protected memory, was their OS powerpc-only?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
How about ACL's, and a descent LVM?
Port trunking would also be nice since my XServe's got two NIC's.
PAC for Safari.
A central server for Software Update ala SUS.
Printer interfaces are a bit spartan too.
Just my small list...
I wonder if people would stop complaining about dot upgrades if the Apple started naming them after porn stars.
I converted over to OS X in August. I love the OS as a whole but my bitch is, of course, Finder.
.DS_Store in every freakin directory. It's especially annoying when traversing directories that are shared with other OS's and FTP.
For the love of god, make it use some preference file in ~/Library instead of dropping
I would pay $129 just for that alone. I hope they do something "revolutionary" with Finder like make it not suck in 10.4.
I just wasted your mod points! HA!
DWIM (Do What I Mean) understands that people are sometimes careless, and tries--successfully, according to beta testers--to execute the correct action based on the user's intentions rather than the user's actual input.
DTRT (Do The Right Thing) ignores all intentionality and attempts to do what is correct in a given situation regardless of the user's input.
They have been working on this since the original release of the Mac OS in 1984; this finally explains why they have always released only one-button mice with their systems. Once these features are complete, they will do away with the mouse altogether and release a one-button keyboard.
The CB App. What's your 20?
Wow, you'd wonder how anything got done in the schools.
"Can't buy in the summer, something new coming out."
"Can't buy in Fall, because there is not enough time to test."
Repeat every year.
How's that Mac OS 7.1.2?
OS X runs Mac apps from pre-Win3.x days fine, though, it's just OS X apps which have issues. Often because undocumented bits are being used, which leads to the same issues .. a bunch of apps in Windows have the same problem, win3.x apps may run fine on XP but apps from more modern times often have stupid issues. And XP will happily run Windows 2 apps with a bit of prodding, for that matter..
... for those of us who are tech support for blind friends. I would get my blind friend onto an OS X Mac in a heartbeat if there were a usable screen reader, just to get him away from the Windows virus and worm wars.
If Apple does this right, it will enable a lot more independence in mainstream blind computer users - having screen reader support in the OS should allow blind users to do a lot more of their own system maintenance than is possible now
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
Noo, Service packs will bundle things such as new versions of IE, new versions of windows media player, Active X, Direct X, updates to different features, security patches, bug fixes.
Its not just security and bug fixes, also if you have microsoft games installed, their will sometimes be patches for these.
And they are free.
TruePunk | Games
You know what? I'll snap this thing up right away. It's worth the cost, just as 10.2 and 10.3 were worth the cost. (Though I suspect I'll be buying a new Powerbook about the time 10.4 is released.)
I'm of the same school as a lot of posters here -- Redhat, Windows, and Mac OS X are part of my daily life. Redhat runs my webserver/small biz, Windows is the ball-and-chain of my day job, and Mac OS X does everything else.
My development work (PHP/MySQL, Ruby, Perl, etc., all of which are part of the OS X distribution), all done on OS X before deploying to the server. My design work? Fire up Photoshop on the iBook. My writing? I just installed PHPWiki a few days ago and have been using it to organize and build the notes for the sci-fi trilogy I've had rolling around in my head for years. Family? I just custom-rolled a photo book for my father-in-law that had restored copies of all his photos (gracias, Photoshop) and it arrived in hardcover (gracias, iPhoto). Road trip? Burning off CDs like mad from iTunes, including the ones I purchased from iTMS.
I'm a Mac OS X user for life. Period. I don't have to fuck around with all the annoying shit that amounts to day-to-day life on Windows/Linux.
Like an earlier poster, I used to bitch about the price of Macs. Then I got an OS X machine. The price is worthwhile -- it's no different than a car, a house, or any other consumer purchase -- you get what you pay for. And I'll happily shell out $129 for 10.4, or a few grand for a new Powerbook with 10.4. Because I have a computer that I use to work, not a computer that I have to spend hours or days trying to keep working.
blog |
Each year we seem to buy machines in May (just in time to miss the free upgrade for the OS), get OS on a developer machine, update our in-house applications, roll out across our small office.
Yeah, it costs money, but we've gotten functionality and improvements that have made our in-house applications faster and more reliable, so I'm happy.
Also, there is no obligation to buy the upgrades, we were going to skip Panther, but then Expose was so incredible, we upgraded all our developers. Instead of building on Panther to deploy on Jaguar, we just bought a bunch of Jaguar updates.
The Jaguar Server -> Panther Server was an INCREDIBLE change, and I look forward to Tiger Server for more polish.
So it's a GOOD thing. Customers get the option of getting new features/more productive, and Apple Shareholders get to increase earnings by selling more to the same (or slightly shrinking) market.
So rather then fighting for marketshare, Apple is selling more/customer.
So all around, it's a good thing.
Through the classic environment, Mac OS X maintains compatibility with applications written for the precursors (Mac OS 9, etc), some of which ran on a completely different CPU architecture (68000). If that's not backwards compatibility for legacy apps, I don't know what is.
You could lend some weight to that if you listed examples.
All editorial writers ever do is come down from the hill after the battle is over and shoot the wounded.
Panther is $69.00 for academic users.
Also anyone can purchase licenses for up to five machines(in the same household) for $199.00. And, if copyright compliance isn't something you lose sleep over, Panther has no activation.
My other sig is extremely clever...
Apple/Sun's track record of not making current JREs available for older releases of Mac OS X makes me wonder if J2SE 1.5 will only be available with 10.4, strongarming Apple customers into shelling out $129 to use contemporary Java applications.
Uh..."winpc" users have to spend a lot more money and time puchasing, installing, and updating their anti-virus software, firewall software, anti-spyware software, and their anti-spam software. If time is money then "winpc" users spend a lot more that $130 a year just to keep their computer secure and usable. With OS X, security is free and requires almost no time. If I do decide to spend $130, I'm doing it to get new features that I want, not to keep my computer secure and usable.
Sell it to me!
I used MacOS X on a 400 mHz G4 laptop and an (cpu-upgraded) 400 mHz beige G3 machine until not so long ago. Didn't feel particularly slow.
If you're going to chuck your 900 mHz iBook, chuck it in my direction!
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
Meaning Apple will have released TEN operating systems (Mac OS X 10.0, Mac OS X Server, Mac OS X 10.1, Mac OS X Server 10.1, Mac OS X 10.2, Mac OS X Server 10.2, you get the picture) in the time it took Microsoft to release two...
Meanwhile, in the next "bitch at M$" article, someone will mention how evil Microsoft is for releasing a new version of Windows every 2-3 years. They'll even call it "leveraging their monopoly."
I own a mac and I'm tired of system upgrades every year. I'm also tired of getting 50mb system updated in apple software update.
Granted I don't have to upgrade or patch for that matter, but apple is creating a mess of OS's that will be supported for how long?
Not only that but I can't get an "upgrade" price from apple for owning the previous version. Nope, I have to shell out 120 bucks for a new version.
On top of this many of the features and "enhancements" aren't even worth 120 dollars. I'm not feeling like apple is delivering a lot of value for my dollar.
Hot corners are nice. Middle mouse button is better.
Mac OS X.x KZIN! The real killer app! Arm your system to the *teeth* with this advanced OS that's centuries ahead of the competition! This time really take the battle to the people of Redmond with... oh man. that's too much. this marketing shit practically writes itself! I'm a devoted mac user, and if I followed every one of these upgrades with an actual purchase, I'd be greatly annoyed. 5 * $129 in 5 years is... just too much money (okay, it's $645, I was just trying to avoid actually doing the math). But think about that! Probably the cost of new macs will soon approach $645... which means as a user, if I just buy a piece of hardware, hold onto it a little longer and enjoy my stock OS, I can probably save those $129/year OS upgrades and use the cash to buy my next hardware, which would come bundled with the practically-newest-version of the OS. I think that's lamer than lame.
yes. that's all I'm going to say in all comments from now on.
In response:
I can think of two dozen more off-hand.
...has to be full read 'n' write support for sftp in finder. Tis crappy to have to use Fugu.
Also, to have Finder always open up in column view. It's annoying when opening up a CD or an ftp folder and have to hit the column view button.
Also, to be able to map certain characters to certain key combos. I'd like to be able to write ö without having to open up the character palette.
...the best thing to happen to GUIs in years... a command line on steroids. I can barely stand using computers without it anymore.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
So, when are we going to see 'MacOS X 10.blah "Kitten!"'? It sleeps, it purrs, it runs and yowls at night while you're trying to sleep.
Yes. Apparently the 3 has been replaced by a sleeker, more streamlined 4.
What are you talking about? What "store" are you talking about?
This looks like more than [the CAN equivalent of] $99.99 US to me ($449 CAN for Win XP Pro full)...
XP Pro Upgrade... $299.99 canadian.
However, I did manage to find an OEM Win XP Pro (SP1) full for $133 US here... but it's OEM and you can only buy it with the purchase of hardware... plus it's only that low due to a sale that ends today.
But yeah, either way, you're right: Win XP Pro upgrade doesn't cost $199. It costs around $220.
But the real question is, what's going out with the new OS X release? It's been a ritual for Apple to exorcise support for a particular group of hardware from OS X - with 10.2, all support for hardware prior to the G3 went away; with 10.3, it was the death of support for OldWorld systems. So what will it be this time? "G4 and up only" as of 10.4, mayhaps? Hm?
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
I love Macs (I have a few macs + a Newton!)-and I have a pc running xp pro as well. My cube needs a part so I call the local macstore (where I pour tons of money) and they inform me that YES they can get my part, but I have to pay their "MAC GENIUS" $80-90$ to basically open my cube and drop a dc board in-a 3 minute operation BTW. I explain that I can handle the install and I just want the part....ok so you think MS is evil-I cannot buy it without them installing it-Bastards. Actually this goes for almost all of their hardware (unless you are lucky enough to find a 2'ndary sell who will 'break the rules'). You would not believe HOW totalitarian they are about this-amazing-screw them-at least with a pc running windows I am 'permitted' to work on it myself. Go ahead-pay top dollar for the best G5 money can buy-you can drop off yer beemer after you drop yer G5 to have an 'expert' work on it...So at the end of the day my XP gets a ton of use and I changed my mac ipod to a pc ipod (yes it can be done-with pain). Guess I am giving up the secret handshake and mocha latte and bowing outta the mac club.
I had a look at a French guy's iBook a short while back, and noticed that they didn't bother to translate the App names (a side effect of the fact that a single copy of an OS X app can contain any number of localisations). In French the IM app is still called iChat, which translates as iCat.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
I guess this is supposed to be funny and clever, akin to the BSOD jokes that died with the year 1999.
all MC68k series processors from that point forward are 32 bit, up to and including the little-used 68060. (By that time it was sort of unnecessary. Apple only went up to the 68040.)
Somone should tell any company still using Palm OS 4 and older. My Sony Clie T665 uses a Motorola DragonBallVZ CPU - a member of the 68k family. (i don't know if it is dirived from the 040, 050 or 060, but i do know it's a 68k)
Now what I want to know is, did apple ever use the MMU available in most of its 32 bit 680x0 processors? Or by the time they discovered the wonder of protected memory, was their OS powerpc-only?
the MMU was used for the Virtual Memory system introduced in System 7. without an MMU, you couldn't do VM.
Don't call me back. Give me a call back. Bye. So yeah. But bye our, well, but alright we are on a shirt this chill.
What else Apple doesn't give you: Product Activation.
True, however Apple does give you mandatory product registration.
Yes, I've got both set up, but for some reason I find myself using the hot corner more than the middle button. Better "flow", I guess.
That's because they've learned that if they report any rumor that is even close to true, Apple will smack them with a cease-and-desist.
You must like playing with fire. I still don't trust Panther in a large production environment, and that's been out for six months and has seen three fairly major service releases-- you want to buy a just-released 10.x.0 and roll it out in the space of a couple months?
One of my clients is about to move to OS X, and I'm moving them to a proven, well-tested-by-select-endusers build based on Jaguar (10.2.8) even though they're buying Panther licenses. One reason is because they live and die by Outlook, and Panther and Outlook 2001 in Classic are not best friends (and no, Entourage X is not a solution because the Exchange connectivity is shit and will be until they give it MAPI).
~Philly
and I'm really looking forward to macosX crippled kitten! ;)
Maybe not on the OS, but it's there on Final Cut Express. Particularly irritating to me, since it arrived in the morning post, and I grabbed the CD on my way out. Only when I got to work did I realise that I needed to grab the CD key as well. I really wish people would stop bothering with this kind of crap. Someone with the technology to copy a CD almost certainly has the technology to copy a 20 character text string...
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
I won't buy this one.
if you want free, then go get linux.
if you want an OS which isn't constantly updated and improved, get windows.
if you like using old OS's, get a C64.
either way, nobody cares about stupid whiners like you.
The reason girls and Windows users don't understand UNIX is because all the documentation is in Man files.
Hm. I figured they'd call 10.4 "Good Buddy".
Not true. Once you set up your user account, you can do a "Command-Quit" to get past the registration.
Your 2 major errors are you are using CHEAP hardware, and running Gentoo. If you want quality then buy name brand parts. If you want ease of use, don't use a distro that makes you compile everything and configure it by hand.
I find Debian runs much smoother on Apple hardware then OS X does. No spinning beachball, no crappy finder, a real mail client, and I don't have to compile everything.
And after the BUGGY apple logic board was replaced it worked even better. Funny how Apples have had this problem across their entire product line, but everyone still believes they are above reproach when it comes to hardware.
no
What are you, Don Rickles?
immediately think "Tiger Uppercut" ?
Apple (Computer, Inc.) has had a thing for codenames even back to the days of the Apple ][e (Diana) and Apple /// (Sara). They were ignored by the general public and simply enabled engineers to communicate about their project without having to have the legal and marketing departments involved.
During the exile of Steve Jobs, Apple had many more projects under development than were being released. Apple started talking about projects in their R&D department (like WildCard) before they were made into a product (like Hypercard) and before these names were run by legal and marketing. This certainly fit in the Scully|Spindler|Amelio philosophy of letting the world see and smell what you have baking even if they can't actually taste it yet. It was during this time that the general public was exposed to the anticipation and delight of a good codename can inspire.
After Steve Jobs returned, Apple's internal kitchens were closed. But they still used codenames to talk about future products. They started by naming runs of things similarly. Operating Systems were named after types of music (Allegro, Sonata, Rhapsody). When the huge division developed between Mac OS 9 and X, codenames changed to be various versions of twilight for Classic Mac OS (starlight, moonlight, etc.) and various big cats for Mac OS X (Cheetah, Puma). About the time that Puma was getting ready for release people started to specualte what was next (Jaguar and then ?).
Because of this public scruity, Apple has taken what was just a sassy internal form of communication ("The Ric Ford Release", "7-up", etc) and turned it into a term that had to have legal and marketing approval. People were now looking at what the codenames meant. At this point, now that the terms are carefully scrutinized before the public ever hears them, they don't mean anything other than a tarted-up pointer to a project. Reading anything into them today merely gives insight into the marketing (and maybe legal) department rather than engineering.
Take for example the codename Merlot. According to different people this was a codename for Mac OS X v 10.2.x+, v 10.3, and now 10.4. What does it mean? People have speculated endlessly. It's not the name of a cat so it must be a change in direction for Apple, right? Maybe it's the name of a secret technology or UI enhancement that Apple just keeps delaying because it's not quite ready, maybe? Forget the speculation on the term Merlot. It may have been a codename and in fact may still be a codename, but it doesn't mean anything anymore.
While Apple's codenames used to be clever, sassy, inside jokes in many cases, today that aspect of Apple culture has been stopped because of too much public scrutiny. You don't get trademarks on real codenames, yet Tiger and some other cat names have already been registered for Apple. Though at one time these were clever bits of insight on Apple's internal thinking, today they are meaningless marketing labels.
When I upgrade Microsoft, I feel like I'm simply getting patches and ugly window dressing. When I upgrade Apple, I feel like I'm getting tons of new features and capabilities. Bottom line, Apple is providing significant value -- I'm willing to put hard money behind that kind of corporate behavior. The complaint I have toward Microsoft is that I don't get $200 worth of value, productivity, interest, or entertainment for the price tag. In fact, the XP "experience, the licensing, and lack of new features has turned me off from using Microsoft until I absolutely have to. Apple, who seems to trust their users not to pirate, gladly gets my repeat business. And will continue to do so.
"Service packs don't count- They're about the equivilant of the 10.3.x combined patches from Apple."
No, they're not. Normal updates, not even service packs, included:
Windows Media Player 9
Blue Tooth Support
All new drivers
Faster Performance with different hardware
Service packs will tend to include all the fixpacks up to a certain point.
Really, Windows XP SP1 is like going from 10.2->10.3.
I'm no microsoft fan, but people are stupid for subscribing to 10.x
Buying new hardware from Apple after installing OS X made your iMac mind numbingly slower than OS 9 - $3,000
Updating your Mac with four versions of the same OS in order to acheive the same performance you had five years ago- $516
Not running Windows - Priceless
Dear apple,
I am a masochist. Please charge me more and tell me that I'm thinking different.
Microsoft does the same amount of "innovating" (probably more). Only they don't charge $130 for the privledge.
If you're going to be a sucker, just shut your mouth and enjoy. Don't try to convince us you're "clever".
I didn't know about the Pascal bit. Thanks.
Where did I say anything about what OS the first PPC systems shipped with? I was talking about when a PPC was required to run the OS. I'm quite sure that no 68k can run 8.5, and I thought that they couldn't run 8.0, either. Therefore, 8 was when they switched entirely from the older processors to their new line. Note that I said "Version 8 was when they switched from 68k to PPC", not that it was the first version to work on PPCs.
Thanks for pointing that out. I just remembered that it was one of the 8.X series that introduced it. 8.5 would be the first system installer that had it, though.
Let's not forget the Power Mac 7100 incident involving Carl Sagan. Interesting little story for those who've never heard it before.
IIRC, the first-gen Power Macs were internally codenamed "PDM" (6100), "Carl Sagan" (7100), and "Cold Fusion" (8100). Carl Sagan got wind of this via a MacWEEK article about the forthcoming machines, and promptly complained that Apple was using his name to promote their products without his consent-- a rather nebulous accusation since it was an internal codename never intended to be made public. Some say Sagan was also miffed about having his name included with two scientific frauds, Piltdown Man and cold fusion. I don't recall if lawyers came into play at this point, but they definitely did when Apple changed the 7100's codename to "BHA," widely rumored to stand for "Butt-Head Astronomer."
Sagan sued and lost, but the 7100's codename was again changed to "LAW," rumored to stand for "Lawyers Are Wimps."
Standard Mac Reply(tm).
"But you get more with a new version of OS/x than you do a windows service pack."
You fail to highlight the fact that OS X Panther operates faster than OS X Jaguar on the very same Mac thanks to optimizations made by Apple. Can you point out exactly which later release of Windows ran faster than the prior version on exactly the same hardware as before (and without a memory upgrade)? I doubt you can. As we all know on Slashdot, when WinXP Service Pack 1 was released, it caused the computers it was installed on to slow down and broke applications.
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
Er. Pays to proofread.
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
I think we'll have to start an inter-species breeding program in order to make it through the next decade...
We apologise for the fault in this post. Those responsible have been sacked. -- Signed RICHARD M. NIXON
Actually, pre-G3 systems have never been able to (officially) run OS X. Since 10.0 at least, I'm not sure about the Public Beta.
End of Line.
If Mr Jobs announced that:
... he'd be sitting on an imminent sales explosion - or at least a boost to his sales.
"The finder has been completely rewritten and doesn't suck any more, at all"
Seriously, when they fix finder, its going to make a lot of people not on X start thinking about checking it out.
Apple have done well with X, with its build and its launch. Fixing finder would be the icing on the cake.
And by my math, multiple $99 or $129 Apple upgrades are going to cost more than one $99 or $129 Microsoft upgrade
And by my math, multiple $99 or $129 Microsoft upgrades are going to cost more than one $99 or $129 Apple upgrade
ya damn foo.
There is a rumor going on about virtual desktops.
The release version of X11, inclusion of some minor libraries and tools that add improved GNU compatibility, XCode (though I still don't understand why I can't install this (or X11 for that matter) on 10.2. Except maybe to force me to buy 10.3 =D
*laughts* I got a troll modifier earlyer for my post about lube and Longhorn but, this one is serious. I like the way Apple updates. I don't use a mac but if I did I could get use to this. After seeing the way they updated with Panther I couldn't imagin whats in Tiger. Can't wait for WWDC eather. Think there announce 3gig G5's?
Once you have it mapped to the screen corners (which for some strange reason is not the default), expose becomes second nature. I use it constantly now...
Computer! Reply to message!
Go download Voodoo Pad. It's a Mac app that is essentially a personal wiki. Rocks my socks.
Gabriel Ricard
People seem to repeatively rehash on the notion that spending $129 per .1 incremental OS update is expensive and not worthy of your hard earned funds.
The 10.x Model is very NeXTish in their 2.x, 3.x and 4.x phase of NeXTSTEP/Openstep before we ultimately merged with Apple.
Here is the rub. The Cost for Openstep User was $799, to go from NeXTSTEP 3.2 to 3.3 and to go from NeXTSTEP 3.3 to Openstep 4.0, so on and so forth.
The Developer CDs were $4999.
Educational User was $249. (I bought this package that was both User and Developer, before I went to work at NeXT)
Flashforward and we now get User/Developer for $129.
All I'm hearing is as the price goes down the Whining Increases exponentially.
DO YOU PEOPLE HAVE ANY BALLS?
HOW MANY OF YOU PISS MONEY DOWN THE DRAIN, DAILY?
Answer: ALL OF US
Apple Resources:We hear people discussing on how Apple has an Army of developers working on OS X.
Unless Steve suddenly changed years of development philosophy that Avie, John, Bertrand, Peter and others brought from NeXT to Apple such statements are PURE FANTASY.
Do most people know that only 12 Principle Architects/Core Developers worked on Openstep? Do most of you know that SQA @NeXT was a group of no more than 25 people (I know I worked in it)? Is it surprising that after the Hardware Days, NeXT kept only 300 employees yearly, world wide? See a pattern?
There are way more 3rd party developers banging away on the Beta code releases than their are in-house building the next release and there always will be.
Too many cooks spoil the soup.
With the emergence of Applications Engineering that houses all these new iLife apps and Professional apps even those teams will be lean and mean.
We all wore several hats at NeXT and at Apple when I worked there. Steve doesn't believe in bloat and when the IT Group alone, during the merger had over 500 employees with the single largest annual budget of over $40 million, not to mention over 180 in-house only applications built, can you take a guess which group got gutted first?
Within all this fat emerged a new Apple and one that will slowly get stronger, as time keeps showing.
P.S. As you can guess I'll spend the $129, and if I had an extra $1299 ($300 early bird registration) to WWDC--the best place for Business Networking within the Apple Dev Community, bar none. MacWorld is like a Rave where discussions of vinyl suited women on motorcycles (Iomega chicks) appears to be more important than Business discussions. If you are serious about being an Entrepreneur on the Mac platform, than get your ass to WWDC 2004.
Not to be sarcastic, but I just paid a lot of money (based on the fact that there are a heck of a lot of free first-class operating systems out there) to have Apple's famous Usability, and here you are telling me to Google for a standard feature?
I thought the idea with paying money is that I don't have to do that sort of stuff. Gentoo, yeah, I google, but then Gentoo is free. Mac OS X, no, I want it to work out of the box, because I paid for that service.
As I said, a long way to go...
User Interface changes / updates
Be careful what you ask for, you may get it. Improvements to some people may be vast setbacks to others. Some people love the flashy metal interface. Some people ignore Expose (until they panic after accidentally hit the F11 key when reaching for backspace). There will undoubtedly be changes in interface (it's what's Apple is known for) but I'd make any complaints you have now as constructive as possible.
Free Price
If there are flashy new additions, significant speed increases, or some new technology enabled this will not be a free upgrade. Apple's earnings recently show significant revenue from software that just about equals their hardware sales. (Although this doesn't hold true with the latest earnings due to the iPod platform sales skewing things). Apple will continue to milk an annual OS sale unless the OS just isn't something they feel is worth the money.
Carbon Cocoa Parity
This is already on-going and has been for several years in the form of Core* libraries like CoreFoundation and CoreGraphics establishing a common, procedural implementation underneath both. It's a slow process to do it well and we've gone through a couple of WWDC's where they say it's still in progress. As long as they don't give up on these efforts, I think this extra layer of abstraction to truly support their object-oriented and procedural libraries is the "right thing to do". I know it's slow to do it right, but I still hope they make significant progress for 10.4.
Windows/Linux Support
Unless Apple actually moves Mac OS X to Intel hardware, binary compatability isn't going to happen. What would be good is building more support for other API's on top of the Mac OS Core* libraries so that it's very simple to port many Windows and Linux apps to Mac OS X. I never thought they'd reconcile Carbon and Cocoa, but what if these teams start working to move a COM or GTK higher level library? As long as the ports are one-way (to Apple products) I think it stands a possibility.
Non-Apple Hardware Intel Support
Technically, with Darwin and the cleaner Core* libraries, the process would be much easier than in the past. Financially, Apple isn't "just a hardware company" anymore so it may make sense. But is there a market for their software on non-Apple hardware? Look at Shake for a case study. From an Apple accountant perspective they don't care if you buy the Mac or Linux version. You'll buy a G5 ($2K) and Shake for Mac ($3K) or get Shake for Linux ($5K). To the accountant, it's like selling a Shake+G5 bundle for $5K, and simply removing the G5 for the Linux bundle (still at $5K). Heck, if it weren't for the development costs, the Linux version would be even more profitable. So what about a Mac OS port? The $130 Mac OS X version would sell zero copies if priced at $2,130 (no matter what hardware), but Mac OS X Server ($3K) might sell to a few businesses if ported to Intel even at $5K. The price seems high to me, but then again there are businesses who pay similar sums for the Windows Server products so who can say.
Communications Improvements :-)
IPv6? iChat updates? QuickTime Conferencing revival? The version number is 10-4 after all. (A common term in old CB slang)
this isn't entirely true. rumors were around about apple's new desktop metaphor called "piles". no one knew what they would look like, but we knew it was coming in the next release.
- tristan
Apple has a lot of superstition about it's version numbers of anything. It used to be bad to number something 3 because of the bad reception that the Apple /// computer got. I think the even / odd started when Apple released System 7.5 and of the various updates 7.5.3 and 7.5.5 were the most stable. (Was 7.5.4 even officially released?) One thing that contributed to this was that Apple didn't start working on bug fixes for a product until after the product was released. (That also made the release date harder to set because they tried to fix all beta-tester reports before it went "gold".)
Today, Apple seems to take a different approach so I'd argue that much of the even / odd quality issues are simply superstition. (Note that mathematically zero is neither even nor odd).
It seems that a release date is set based on marketing forces (NAB conference, back to school sales season, etc). From this a final development date is determined and set (two or three weeks prior? who knows). If they find show-stopper bugs, the release date turns into an announce date and they ship the product ASAP after that.
Other bugs (non-showstoppers) exist in all software though some are more obvious than others. The known minor bugs have Apple Knowledge Base articles written about them. They describe the remaining bugs and give work-arounds if known and are made public when the software is released. Though initial releases will still have bugs (and always will) at least they are better documented than in the old Apple.
Apple appears to start a bug fix version immediately after the development version is finalized, but before it's released. To old Apple watchers, it probably seems strange to be working on the bug fix release before the original version is put in boxes and made public, but it helps spot the unforgivable show-stopper bugs, document the workarounds for the minor bugs, and have things in full motion for when the end-user bug reports start coming in.
Perhaps Apple has picked up more habits from the open software development community than we knew.
Why did you buy 10.1? It was a 100% free update.
I have no idea what it will be, but I'd be willing to bet that 10.4 "Tiger" includes a new major OS feature that takes advantage of Quartz Extreme.
For those that aren't familiar with it, Quartz Extreme, which was introduced in 10.2, uses OpenGL to "composite" your screen image. In other words, all application windows are bitmaps on your graphics card, and your graphics card puts them together to make the overlapping windows that you see.
In 10.2, the result was a 30% speed improvement for many operations, because the CPU no longer needed to spend as much time redrawing the screen. Eye candy like soft drop shadows on every window and on the mouse cursor, the Genie effect, and Dock magnification got a lot faster and smoother.
In 10.3, they added Expose and Fast User Switching (with a cool rotating animation) - neither of which would have been realistic without Quartz Extreme. Thanks to Quartz Extreme, my 733 MHz G4 had no problem Expose-ing 18 windows instantly, perfectly smoothly, including continuing to play a QuickTime movie while rearranging the windows! (Hint: hold down Shift while you press your Expose shortcut to watch it in slow motion!)
So anyway, in 10.4 I expect to see some major new OS feature that takes advantage of Quartz Extreme. Just think: they have the ability to instantly make any window partially transparent, rotate any window in 3-D, warp the whole desktop under the mouse, you name it - so I think there's a good chance they've come up with a clever new way to exploit this. Anyone could implement Expose on any OS - but without Quartz Extreme you couldn't possibly make it so fast and so smooth.
In theory, yes. In practice, the majority of old Mac apps used undocumented or obsoleted calls and broke along the way. Virtually none of my old Quadra apps run under OS X Classic.
Microsoft wins this fight by a mile.
Philly,
Do some more legwork would ya and do yourself and your client a favor. Panther plays nice with Exchange servers. In Mail you can setup an Exchange account no problem, google that please. There is an option for Exchange, just have the pertaining information from your client and you can setup them up no worries. That's a Mac in a Windows world. Pather's codename comes in handy (stealthy), those pesky Exchange servers sees it just like another MS Client.
If they need Outlook like crap check out Ximian's Evolution for X11. Gotta love it Linux apps on your box.
Oh, play with Fire its a great little OSX app.
- Tron, Wargames, or other computer movie
- DVD commercials for Mac OS X Tiger
- iTunes & Quicktime installers if run on Win or Mac
- Full versions of a few Mac OS X only games
Pay the Kellogg's Cereal Company to include these discs on all of it's kids cereals including Frosted Flakes (with the Tony the Tiger mascot) and Apple Jacks.Of course, the movie's will probably have to be censored to get them down to the G rating that parents assume such things will be.
At any given time there are hoards of little Mac minions scurrying around the internet apologizing for Apple's hefty greed.
Although a case could be made that Microsoft's greed approaches that of Apple's, I can attest that, as an end user of each platform, Apple's greed certainly costs me a lot more money.
But by the same token Microsoft hasn't done anything revolutionary since Windows 2000, and before that Windows 95.
I think it would take design genius even beyond Apple's to come up with an even more obvious interface than a checkbox labelled "Use SSL" which you check when you want to use SSL.
> Your OS might get patched to fix vulnerabilities but your applications won't; the new versions won't run on your version of the OS.
So basically what you're saying is, you don't mind paying each application vendor every time they release new versions, but it pisses you off to have to pay Apple to release new versions of the operating system? Is Apple's software somehow not worth the same as other software vendors?
I don't see how Microsoft is worlds better. There are a lot of programs now that don't run on Windows 9x (iTunes is one of them, lol). People don't bother to test their code on old OS versions because they suck. Really. In comparison to the current OS, using the last version always seems archaic and annoying. And it's the same for developers who learn new APIs and get used to them, and later can't be arsed to go rip out their cool new way of doing things and replace it with a kludge for the previous OS. It's not Apple's fault. The only things they could do would be (A) start giving the OS away for free (see "bad business idea") or (B) give the OS away for free and charge a subscription (which seems to bother most of us too) or (C) cease any development that changes APIs. OS updates would just change colors, fonts, and maybe the included applications. This sounds like a daft idea as well; there's no point in releasing an upgrade if you don't make real improvements and add new APIs as necessary.
The following is directed at everyone, not really the parent:
If you resent paying for a new version of an application or an OS, then don't ever update your apps or your OS. Apple will continue to release security updates for the old versions as long as it's sane,
Yes, if you're still running OS 8.6 and expect updates every couple weeks, you're out of your mind. Supporting every previous OS version would require constant expansion to support a few crackpots who are too cheap to ever upgrade. Tour guide: "This building is home to the System 7.5 team, who still release updates to that OS on a regular basis. Nearby is the 8.0 team, who constantly monitors 8.0 for bugs and security issues on that mid-90s OS..." But don't worry, by the time Apple quits releasing critical security updates for your OS version, I doubt anyone will be bothering to try to exploit it either, since only you and 14 other people are running it anyway, it's not a very big target. Go Google for "Atari 1200XL exploits" and let me know what you find.
As for your apps, don't upgrade them either. If you're so cheap that you can't afford $129 every two years (which is how long you can go without losing a serious amount of compatibility with new apps), then it shouldn't be too hard to not buy upgrades to other apps. If you're the type that doesn't mind being a version or two out of date, which you indicate when you refuse to upgrade your OS, you probably won't miss the app upgrades either!
Another hint, if you want your cake and to eat it as well: eBay. You can usually pick it up there for way less than retail.
Amusing tale for you:
Our Systems Manager at work. Hates macs, get's his junior to do any repair work on them (basically because he has no clue what he's doing with a mac) and wants to see them all replaced by 'state-of-the-art' Dell win2k boxes. So he buys a new mobo and a wireless nic. The mobo is a VIA chipset, the nic is Netgear, same brand as his wireless router. The nic refuses to do what it should do (lol). According to Netgear it's a joint problem with VIA chipsets and AMD cpus (i.e. they have no clue what the problem is, lol).
uhm. look in the Finder preferences for this - there's a check box just for you.
For many characters characters, there are in fact key combos (I assume you're on a qwerty keyboard layout?)...
hit alt-u for umlaut, followed by the letter you want under the umaut. alt-e for an acute, etc etc. When you hit the key-combo you'll see a little preview of the accent you're going to get.
As for sftp, I'd rather have a specialized app that did it properly, but perhaps they'll put it in eventually (after fixing the normal FTP support?).
Maybe he should have taken a short trip to the Wikipedia to look up on TLS then, which would have taught him that SSL and TSL are not synonyms. This is why, and this was in fact my original point, modern mail programs such as Kmail (even all the way back to KDE 3.1) include the option of SSL or TLS. Mail does not, it only provides SSL. Which brings us back to the point that Apple has a lot of work to do.
Clarification:
Her name is Clarus and she says "Moof".
Dogcows are always female (cf. 'bulldog')
In Soviet Russia Academia discounts YOU!
(sorry, the little voices told me to post that..)
Apple doesn't sell upgrades. That $129 gets you a full version of the OS. You can sell your old version on ebay if you want; you won't need it to install 10.4
Can I get $129 deducted from the price of my next Macintosh purchase if I elect to use my existing MacOS X license? Can I sell the MacOS X license that Apple bundled with my last computer when I buy 10.[234] off the shelf for it? A software licensing model that doesn't discount upgrades vs. full new products is completely absurd in the 21st century. Then again, so is one that bundles a HUGE amount of software together, and doesn't allow me to buy just the part I want at a reduced cost (I'm talking about being able to buy the OS without the iLife Apps, mainly).
I'm not a smorgasbord.
Your definition of "play nice" differs from mine. Entourage's Exchange connectivity stinks, I know, because I've tried it. It does not work as well as Outlook 2001, period-- and I'm far from the only person who feels that way. When Microsoft finally released the Exchange updater for Entourage, there was a brief burst of joy, and then people tried it and found out how hard it sucked, and outrage ensued over them making up wait a year for such a half-assed piece of crap.
~Philly
Apple *must* release a full 64-bit OS so customers can take advantage of the G5's main selling point (the 64-bit processor/s), and the sooner, the better. They should have released that OS including a 64-bit-supporting X11, XCode and some multi-platform-grid-software (such as Pooch or XGrid) in autumn 2003 and their only option is to catch up as soon as possible. That type of technology will be surely at the center of the Tiger update.
As long as you have your application package to install, it doesn't matter on what OS you install it; Windows XP, Linux or Mac OS X. Most installations require the user to follow 'some installation steps' anyway, and the more interesting options usually take a bit longer.
You will end up with more than one platform on your desk anyway, so you can take advantage of some more options than just being locked on one OS - remember, an OS is not a belief system, it's a means to an end. While Windows XP may not be as stable as Mac OS X, the choice of specialized software products is excellent and makes up for a lot; and while Linux may not be as simple to set up, it's free, it runs on cheap hardware and for the most part it is very stable. OS X is a very stable GUI for a powerful system and has a lot of recent, very hip applications and a very useful file browser (Finder). Even on OS X, you will also spend some more time installing your X11-packages, sometimes manually, sometimes using Fink, at which point you're doing the same you'd be doing on Linux. I don't know whether it's a big difference whether you run Mozilla on Windows, Linux or Mac.
If Apple had a 64-bit OS now, the G5 could easily be on the road to becoming the 'iPod mini' of the entry-level workstations. If they wait for too long until the unleash the full power of the G5, we will eventually have switched to some Hewlett Packard RISC workstations - and I am sure that Sun will drop prices on their workstations a bit, too.
So: I believe that Tiger will be fully 64-bit. If it is not, it's simply bad business.
Wolf.
Methinks you're being at least economical with the truth. .1 was free for purchasers of .0, so I really don't see how you could have paid for *both* .0 and .1.
That said, I don't really care, so let it remain as you please.
Think about, we are all using an interface designed for three-handed beings. Both hands on the home row, with your 2nd right hand on the mouse. This is one thing Windows gets right: you can do just about everything without a mouse, and often the keyboard centric way to do things is faster.
So here's my idea for an impressive demo at an Apple keynote address: Steve pulls the mouse out from the keyboard -- and continues with a routine demo of the Finder, Safari, iTunes, Garage Band, and iChat!
I paid the going retail price for a Windows screen reader and got a free Unix computer!
Err. I think you'll find most 3rd party developers of software for OS X would dissagree with you. What API do you think all Adobe software uses? All Macromedia software? I think Office is Carbon too. Of course Steve is pretty crazy, and anything is possible, but realistically...
Apple has no choice right now, they have to advance both APIs, as Carbon isn't going to go away. In fact 8 of those sessions in the link are addressed to Carbon developers, which is slightly less than the cocoa total, but still quite a few specific ones out of 30 or so.
The best thing Apple can do is make sure both APIs are consistent in terms of user experience (still a few glitches there, but it's getting better), and use the same underlying technology going forward to avoid duplication of effort. The user should not know or care if the app is a cocoa/carbon/applescript studio/python/java app, it should 'just work'.
Earnings are up, that's all that matters.
Marketshare, whatever, it's irrelevant. Earnings are all that matter.
The problem with low marketshare, harder for third parties to make money selling software. Well, Apple makes more and more of the software that people use. As the open source stuff gets up to snuff, and we have Qt/Aqua, GTK/Aqua (no idea how mature or complete that is), and work on KDE/Aqua (there is also talk of a Qt/KDE platform... i.e. you could build a Qt app and have it use KDE widgets on KDE, Qt widgets on non-KDE Unix, Aqua widgets, Windows widgets, etc.), etc., and Apple becomes "another Unix" so the Free Software/Open Source stuff will become an EASY port.
Marketshare COULD have been irrelevant if Sun didn't screw up Java so badly (cross platform desktop with Windows and Sun support, when the ONLY interest in cross-platform at the time was Windows / Mac OS... maybe a little OS/2), but it will become that way with the current evolution in Free/Open Source Software.
OS X and Unix are similar enough that as the GUI toolkits port over, a "native" OS X version becomes easy, and adding OS X polish becomes doable. Making an App play nicely in KDE/OS X or GNOME/OS X becomes MUCH easier if you just need to modify the front end a bit, and the core functions the same.
Forget beleaguered, Apple is a nice company making nice money again.
I just want more and more from them so that I happily cut them bigger and bigger checks each year... that means that using Apple software, I make more and more money. Who knows, get good in OS X Server and my production servers may move from Linux to OS X.
Alex
Microsoft Certified System Engineer, Citrix Certified Administrator, and running a growing Mac network with Linux servers with one Windows machine for Quickbooks.
Do you suppose that Tiger is going to exclude G3 Macs? It seems that Panther included software that ran only on 600mhz G3 (as Ichat w. isight) and fast user swicthing required G4.....
could this be the end of the line for G3s?
whaddya think? last ibook upgrades ended g3 from line-up....the end is nye!
Amen to that. Another thing, while you're not supposed to pirate it from friends and such, it makes sense financially to obtain your friend's old copy. (if you want it to be legal I'm sure you can "purchase" it).
...
True, however Apple does give you mandatory product registration.
Nope.
Just hit command-Q and the registration app will skip to setting up your administrator account.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Re: Cat got your tongue? (Score:5, Funny)
by wazzzup (172351) on Tuesday April 22 [2003], @02:12PM (#5782799)
10.4 "Pussy" will be the next installment of the Mac OS using the cat-themed naming convention.
Rumour has it they will really emphasise the lickable interface and of course change the color of all the buttons to pink. Since Steve Jobs announced this year as "The year of the laptop" for Apple, the ad slogan will be "Put a Pussy on your lap for the greatest user experience yet."
They'll also announce that the new 64-bit processor designed to run this OS is not the long-awaited G5 but instead the relatively unknown G-Spot manufactured by Cervix...errr, I mean Cyrix.
How sexy does Longhorn sound now? I expect a doubling of Apple's market share in 3 months after release.
Re: Cat got your tongue? (Score:3, Funny)
by Phrogz (43803) <gavin AT refinery DOT com> on Tuesday April 22, @06:35PM (#5785126)
(http://phrogz.net/)
Doubling after release? I think you meant before. ;)
-1 Offtopic, +1 Funny[skipped the IMHO less-funny ones]
Re: Cat got your tongue? (Score:2)
by wazzzup (172351) on Tuesday April 22, @06:07PM (#5784879)
Did I mention the 10.4 Pussy will not require a mouse with a button? All you have to do is move the cursor up and down over a button until you get a response from the computer.
Which just goes to show, folks, that someone will always b**** about something.
You can tell a great deal about the character of a man by observing those who hate him.
Mathematicians define "even" as an integer that has no remainder when divided by two. Therefore 0%2 = 0 must make zero even, right?
Want to bet? Don't try to explain with mathematician's logic about even and odd to Vito and Johnny at the roulette wheel. They consider a bet on "Even" to be a loss if you come up with 0.
Their logic is based on an inductive argument rather than an arbitrary definiton. A 6 pack of beer can be evenly halved without sharing a can. If Vito has no six packs of beer, how can he give half of that to Johnny? Vito has the same amount that he had before halving as Johnny does afterwards so by this logic, declaring zero as neither odd nor even is just as intuitive as declaring a countable infinity as both odd and even.
I realize it's convenient for mathematicians to use the shorthand that zero is even because most of the properties they'd observe would have to make an exception for zero otherwise when most "work" just fine with zero. But that doesn't mean that theirs is the only definition in use today.
Actually, I am now using VLC, Thunderbird and Firefox, and will be loading Yellow Dog Linux as soon as the version that supports the G4 comes out -- I use all three with KDE as well, by the way. But my point was a different one:
You seem to have this idea that Apple is forcing you into using only the applications they provide, but I really can't see any sense in which this is the case.
To avoid any missunderstanding: I love my iBook, and I would rush out and buy another one this evening if silicon monsters ate mine this afternoon. When my kid sister said she needed a laptop, I told her not to screw around (always good advice for a kid sister) and buy an iBook, too. It is small, light, has great battery time, and yeah, it looks great. Not that I am influenced by that, of course.
Mac OS X, too, is a fantastic operating system for anybody who wants to use computers as a tool and is unwilling to learn anything more than how to turn it on. I tell co-workers with virus problems to stop complaining and buy a Mac.
What annoys me no end, though, is that Apple is pushing a product that is already behind the curve for a very expensive price, and is fooling around with eye candy (like Expose) instead of concentrating on the basics (like .DS_save). I don't know if you have had the chance to take a look at KDE lately, but if you ignore the cool Quarz-based special effects, there is not much that Steve Jobs can offer that Konqi the Dragon doesn't have.
Apple is in a tight spot because Open Source projects like KDE are attracting more and more people, while Apple will probably not be able to double its crew of developers in the next two years. Now that the XFree cabal is not blocking the evolution of X anymore, things might go very fast in the graphics department.
In short, I feel somewhat cheated by Mac OS X because I know from the Open Source side that they could do better for free. I believe that this will pass -- Apple has shown that it is willing to adopt Open Source for OS X when they have to (see Safari), and so in about two years I expect them to get behind OpenOffice.org so that the Mac finally has a real office suite. Apple is too small to hold their own with a closed operating system -- heck, the armies of Microsoft can't, either -- and it would be better off for everybody if they just accepted it and provided the best of both worlds before they fall behind far enough that their reputation for providing a premium product gets ruined.
You don't make money on operating systems any more, you concentrate on the hardware and provide the OS as a service. The hardware is fantastic, and I will happily continue buy it -- if I had to get a new system from scratch, I'd certainly be drooling over a dual G5.
Anyway, thank you for this discussion. It has been wonderfully un-Slashdot-like (grin).
yeah same here. I can't not use it now, I was using a windows box at school the other day and found I had to click the start menu repeatedly to get my stuff from application to application. This really sucks when you've got over 2 applications going. There's a windows program called winows exposer or something, it's a riot! instead of doing that neat moving the window/shrinking it thing, it clears the desktop then redraws each window one by one, it takes about twice as long as 1 epose swipe to start, and twice as long as one expose swipe to redraw each window. If you have 4 windows open, it takes about 10 expose time periods. Go windows!
I can't switch to OS X because I am allergic to Felines such as Jaguars (JAG-wires), Panthers, and Tigers.
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