I've always been baffled by people who think that spending the lowest amount of money on the initial purchase automatically means a lower overall cost.
"and crank out crap after crap after crap, making it impossible to find or discover the good stuff."
In what fantasy universe do people "crank out crap after crap" for no money? You have stipulated that there is no money to be made and then you say that people will work endless hours toward something with no financial reward! Huh???
"It's an intriguing thing, but will probably be flooded with crap soon enough."
The same is true of the Internet but it's not a legitimate reason to avoid it.
Maybe this is a good idea and maybe not but we certainly won't come to a valid conclusion with your style of thinking.
This is just a sequel to the drug wars. It's all the same: there's no good reason for it to be illegal, except for all the money to be made. Entrenched power acts defensively to preserve and extend itself.
Copyrighting APIs would be monumentally bad for anything their database's talk to as part of a solution.
In case you haven't gotten the notice, Oracle is rapidly becoming a vertical vendor that doesn't need to talk to anyone else's systems. They have complete control over their entire hardware and software ecosystem. They would THRIVE in an envionment where they don't have to open their database to anyone.
If you have legacy Windows 98 applications, you have a REALLY serious problem, and the last thing you should think of is a choice of virtualization environment
Yeah remind me to tell my car mechanic to throw out his service manuals
Go tell the truck manufacturer to upgrade the service manual for their 10 year old trucks
Go tell the grocery warehouse to chuck out their forklift battery maintenance system
So in other words, if the use case falls within the parameters you've set out, and you can manage to get some help from someone who knows what they are doing, then virtualization can be a big win for you.
And then you push HARD on the straw man: "the biggest virtualization benefit of being able to migrate VMs around during the day without outages."
but there are PLENTY of other reasons that are perfectly valid! There are plenty of good use cases for virtual machines where it's just fine if the virtual machine stays right where it is.
But don't let me stop you from making overblown, over-generalized pronouncements
Wow, you seem to think that virtual machines have some sort of magic "segregation" that prevents them from hacking their way into the host kernel!
Are you willing to assert that there are no buffer overun bugs in vmware's drivers? Unless you can make that assertion, then you are wildly off-base with your security assumptions.
they can be BSD or Windows 98 apps, and you are NEVER going to get those to run right in a linux kernel, but they will run just fine in vmware.
For example we can use my car's service manual. It is a Windows application on a DVD. No it does not run in wine. I can run vmware or I can buy another computer.
For another example, NETFLIX. No chance of getting it to run on your Linux desktop but in vmware it runs just great on Windows!
Go to a typical business and you will find that odd application that does their industry-specific thing and it only runs on some old version of windows. You know there are people out there who make things and heal people and they are not technical experts, so for them VMware is a fast and easy way for them to conduct their business. For example let's say you are an audiologist and your customers have old hearing aids and the software for them only runs on Windows 98. Are you going to tell your elderly fixed income customers to upgrade their hearing aids or are you gonna buy a copy of vmware? easy choice.
On Slashdot people climb up their ivory towers and proclaim purity but in reality users want their apps and who are we to argue?
Network latency: What year is this anyway? You can already buy USED network cards on ebay that have solved the latency issue in virtualization. They have multiple I/O channels and the hypervisor points the VM at a HARDWARE network port. There's no latency issue because it's the exact same data path you get with real hardware. This is not exactly new stuff.
What possible reason is there for doing this??? Oracle spends much time and effort on their product's features, just so you don't have to resort to this sort of thing.
There are plenty of valid reasons for virtualization but running a database server is not one of them, esp. if you are complaining about performance.
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Huh? I have a 2000 laptop with P4, 1 Gig RAM, loads and runs Fedora perfectly
No, but JUST LIKE THE MGA
You are a FOOL if you think EITHER is suitable for everyday professional use
I've always been baffled by people who think that spending the lowest amount of money on the initial purchase automatically means a lower overall cost.
> And for example I personally do not like being an alpha tester for a piece of software which I use mostly for business purposes.
Remind me again HOW MUCH YOU PAID FOR THIS FINE PRODUCT and then tell us more about your DEMANDS
> You miss the point of software having the version number at all. FireFox version numbers are useless
The ONLY point of version numbering is to IDENTIFY THE BUILD
Your BIZARRE FREAKAZOID psychological disturbance about a sequence of characters is PATHOLOGICAL
> version numbers were also used to indicate stability of the software.
Are you talking about the "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" reality or perhaps the "Quentin Tarentino" realiity because that was NEVER true in THIS reality.
"and crank out crap after crap after crap, making it impossible to find or discover the good stuff."
In what fantasy universe do people "crank out crap after crap" for no money? You have stipulated that there is no money to be made and then you say that people will work endless hours toward something with no financial reward! Huh???
"It's an intriguing thing, but will probably be flooded with crap soon enough."
The same is true of the Internet but it's not a legitimate reason to avoid it.
Maybe this is a good idea and maybe not but we certainly won't come to a valid conclusion with your style of thinking.
Maybe you'd be better off if you worried about being such a worthless pedant
Steve Ballmer once called Linux a cancer and now Microsoft writes kernel drivers
How is life in your reality where time stands still and nothing ever changes?
Since when does running a batch file count as "using" the development environment?
This is just a sequel to the drug wars. It's all the same: there's no good reason for it to be illegal, except for all the money to be made. Entrenched power acts defensively to preserve and extend itself.
Copyrighting APIs would be monumentally bad for anything their database's talk to as part of a solution.
In case you haven't gotten the notice, Oracle is rapidly becoming a vertical vendor that doesn't need to talk to anyone else's systems. They have complete control over their entire hardware and software ecosystem. They would THRIVE in an envionment where they don't have to open their database to anyone.
If you have legacy Windows 98 applications, you have a REALLY serious problem, and the last thing you should think of is a choice of virtualization environment
Yeah remind me to tell my car mechanic to throw out his service manuals
Go tell the truck manufacturer to upgrade the service manual for their 10 year old trucks
Go tell the grocery warehouse to chuck out their forklift battery maintenance system
what a dweeb you are
So in other words, if the use case falls within the parameters you've set out, and you can manage to get some help from someone who knows what they are doing, then virtualization can be a big win for you.
And then you push HARD on the straw man: "the biggest virtualization benefit of being able to migrate VMs around during the day without outages."
but there are PLENTY of other reasons that are perfectly valid! There are plenty of good use cases for virtual machines where it's just fine if the virtual machine stays right where it is.
But don't let me stop you from making overblown, over-generalized pronouncements
"runs fine" is not the same as "performs well". Nobody is claiming that virtualization is messing with program execution.
high disk i/o just kills virtualized servers, the disk controller is being emulated.
Wow, you seem to think that virtual machines have some sort of magic "segregation" that prevents them from hacking their way into the host kernel!
Are you willing to assert that there are no buffer overun bugs in vmware's drivers? Unless you can make that assertion, then you are wildly off-base with your security assumptions.
This is why there are cross compilers
Virtualization has specific use cases that are interesting. Compile farms are not one of them
Because we all get to choose the software that we work with?
What if the software is just one part of a large electromechanical system?
What if the system is one that requires human interaction?
Do you assert that every computing requirement is really just an old fashioned batch job?
I have no idea what the fuck "prototyping" is (translation: I am absolutely certain, there is no such thing in proper software development process).
Yeah because NOBODY EVER wonders
"will version x.y.z of the app even work with version a.b.c of the database? Let's do a quick check before we dedicate resources to this project"
"people who run Windows do not care about performance. Or security. Or reliability. "
Yeah they might be FACTORY WORKERS or DOCTORS or LAWYERS running an INDUSTRY-SPECIFIC APPLICATION.
You know, the people who actually EARN the money that pays IT's salary.
It's all work that needs to be done anyway.
"If legacy applications run on Linux"
they can be BSD or Windows 98 apps, and you are NEVER going to get those to run right in a linux kernel, but they will run just fine in vmware.
For example we can use my car's service manual. It is a Windows application on a DVD. No it does not run in wine. I can run vmware or I can buy another computer.
For another example, NETFLIX. No chance of getting it to run on your Linux desktop but in vmware it runs just great on Windows!
Go to a typical business and you will find that odd application that does their industry-specific thing and it only runs on some old version of windows. You know there are people out there who make things and heal people and they are not technical experts, so for them VMware is a fast and easy way for them to conduct their business. For example let's say you are an audiologist and your customers have old hearing aids and the software for them only runs on Windows 98. Are you going to tell your elderly fixed income customers to upgrade their hearing aids or are you gonna buy a copy of vmware? easy choice.
On Slashdot people climb up their ivory towers and proclaim purity but in reality users want their apps and who are we to argue?
Network latency: What year is this anyway? You can already buy USED network cards on ebay that have solved the latency issue in virtualization. They have multiple I/O channels and the hypervisor points the VM at a HARDWARE network port. There's no latency issue because it's the exact same data path you get with real hardware. This is not exactly new stuff.
What possible reason is there for doing this??? Oracle spends much time and effort on their product's features, just so you don't have to resort to this sort of thing.
There are plenty of valid reasons for virtualization but running a database server is not one of them, esp. if you are complaining about performance.
Isn't it funny how two people can look at the exact same computing setup...
One person says "hardware is cheap so we give the users maximal control"
The other says "what a terrible waste of resources"
The hardware costs you speak of are ZIP ZERO NADA compared to potential profits.
Let me know when these "modern operating systems" you are talking about will run RHEL 6 apps and Windows apps on the same hardware.