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Microsoft Ignores Usability With All-Caps Menu in Visual Studio

mikejuk writes "The recent release of Visual Studio 2012 contained a UI element that few believed could make it into the final version — ALL-CAPS menus. After lots of user criticism and disbelief, Microsoft has moved swiftly to do something about it — by tweaking the typography. '... we explored designs with and without uppercase styling. In the end we determined it to be a very effective way of providing structure and emphasis to the top menu area in Visual Studio 2012.' This must be a new meaning of the word 'structure,' because putting the menu items into all-caps means that they are all the same height. When each menu items starts with a cap then there is structure because you can see the change in height, marking the start of the next menu item. The idea that putting a menu into all caps adds structure is something that is very difficult to see. If you wanted to put structure into a menu, well how about color? Oh wait, I forgot the design department dumped color in favour of the 'everything-is-grey UI.' Developers are the people who invented CamelCase to make sure that the structure of run together words would stand out better — and now we are asked to believe that making a menu all-caps adds structure. I don't think so."

415 comments

  1. All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by crazyjj · · Score: 5, Funny

    You see, MS is so hip, so ahead of the curve, that they know already that COBOL is about to come back into style in the developer world. Soon everything will be in all caps, mainframes will be all the rage, and GUI's will be passe. Apple will be behind the times with their over-designed software, and MS will be out in front with their all caps, command-line interface only version of Windows 9--renamed "DOS 9 FOR TERMINALS."

    GOOD JOB, MICROSOFT!

    --
    What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
    1. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      THEY WERE INTO COMPUTERS WHEN THE GREAT RUNES ROAMED THE DISPLAY. YOU'VE PROBABLY NEVER HEARD OF THEM, THOUGH.








      (Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING. Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING. Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.)

    2. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by gbjbaanb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      alas mainframes (or at least - thin clients attached to remote processing power somewhere on a network) are back, only they called them "the cloud" this time round to make it sound a bit cooler.

    3. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Hoo boy. The one singular time where all-caps in Slashdot posts is appropriate. I get this feeling we'll be seeing a lot of lowercase filler text today...

    4. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by cpu6502 · · Score: 1

      Yeah man. It reminds me of my Commodore 64 days..... no, even that had lower-case menus. Um. The 70s computers??? RETRO is back baby! Yeah baby, yeah! ;-)

      BUT AT LEAST IT HAS A MENU.
      Freaking Office 2010 with the ribbon crap confuses the heck out of me, because I can never find the function I want. Where's the undo function? Find-and-replace? Full justification? I know they're in that mess of Egyptian hieroglyphics, but I have no clue where.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    5. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by pulski · · Score: 1

      Tell me about it... I play sitting 8-10 feet back on my TV and it's really hard to see. WoW had an option right on the chat window to increase the font, which was essential for me. It's not that I have bad eyes, quite the opposite in fact, but it just gets really tiring trying to read the unnecessarily small print.

    6. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Well, regardless of the 'control' people want it is the right way to do things, if you do it properly and have the bandwidth behind it to push all the pretty pixels around that is.

      Tho its true that back in mainframe days bandwidth wasn't a real issue.. but the last time we try the cloud thing the bandwidth wasn't there and it left a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    7. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by dcollins · · Score: 1

      They're just taking the Federal CIO seriously -- "Federal CIO Steven VanRoekel quipped, 'I'm recruiting COBOL developers, any out there?,' sending Federal CTO Todd Park into fits of laughter (video)... So what are VanRoekel and Park looking for? 'Bad a** innovators — the baddest a** of the bad a**es out there,' Park explained (video), 'to design, create, and kick a** for America.'"

      BAD A**!!!!!!

      http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/05/26/1658227/us-ciocto-idea-of-hiring-cobol-coders-laughable

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    8. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by Dishevel · · Score: 1

      I do not know about the all caps thing.
      But I never had more fun with Microsoft than when I used DOS 6.22 w/ 4DOS.
      The OS was FAST. Only other programs could slow it down. When I wanted graphical I could type a command and get graphical.
      When I had an issue I knew that my problem lied in either the config.sys or the autoexec.bat files.
      I even had color directories.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    9. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by beachcoder · · Score: 4, Funny

      Freaking Office 2010 with the ribbon crap confuses the heck out of me, because I can never find the function I want. Where's the undo function? Find-and-replace? Full justification? I know they're in that mess of Egyptian hieroglyphics, but I have no clue where.

      CTRL+Z, CTRL+H, CTRL+J?

    10. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by BenJury · · Score: 1

      Freaking Office 2010 with the ribbon crap confuses the heck out of me, because I can never find the function I want. Where's the undo function? Find-and-replace? Full justification? I know they're in that mess of Egyptian hieroglyphics, but I have no clue where.

      ^z, ^h, ^j, c'mon, real nerds don't use the mouse! ;)

      --
      Blatant Advert: Android Apps!
    11. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by bmxeroh · · Score: 1

      Ctrl+Z, Ctrl+H, and I think Ctrl+J for justification. Admittedly I hated the switch from 2003 to 2007, but after a while I got used to it. I certainly appreciate some of the changes made to how some of the functions operate, but until they decide to make Filtering in excel Exclusive rather than Inclusive, they still have a way to go.

      --
      Central Ohio Home Theater Installation - The Theater People
    12. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by Dishevel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Do people playing Diablo III have anything to say worth reading?

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    13. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by dslbrian · · Score: 2

      Freaking Office 2010 with the ribbon crap confuses the heck out of me, because I can never find the function I want.

      You need to install UBitMenu. It creates a new tab with the old 2003 menus, so you can at least find things. Their main site is down at the moment, but if you google it you can find it on a download site.

    14. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'll bet it's Ballmer's doing. If he can't throw a chair at least he can YELL

    15. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by cpu6502 · · Score: 1

      I'm not allowed to install helper apps like Ubitmenu due to admin lockouts.

      And I never bothered to memorize the keystrokes except Ctrl-C, V, and Z. As Einstein used to say, "Why bother remembering that which you can look up?" and so I just looked-up in the functions in the menu as I need them. Plus the fact keystrokes don't translate. The keystrokes are somewhat similar, but different when I switch to MacOS or AmigaOS or GNUlinix. I rely on the menus to make the transition easy.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    16. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by Cinder6 · · Score: 1

      Wait what? Really? I never noticed this. Maybe because I'm on a 2560x1440 screen...

      --
      If you can't convince them, convict them.
    17. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can patch the slowness of bloated software with an SSD. If you have to use Windows, it takes away most of the frustration by doing away with all the weird delays that destroy a user's flow.

    18. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, except for the whole part about redundant individual nodes with eventually-consistent storage being the complete and total opposite of the single powerful node (with maybe a failover backup) writing records transactionally into a single pool.

      But this is slashdot, all you know how to do is scoff, grumble, and complain, because gosh that whole jaded shtick never gets old.

       

    19. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by oldmac31310 · · Score: 3, Funny

      What's all this shouting? We'll have no shouting! This is a local shop!

      --
      http://www.acetonestudio.com
    20. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by camperslo · · Score: 1

      You see, MS is so hip, so ahead of the curve...

      Perhaps MS was ahead of the curve when they came up with the iLoo, their internet toilet. It was apparently abandoned because of expected ridicule.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILoo

      It seems they've managed to draw a little ridicule over the years without it.
      Meanwhile, while the sales of many game consoles have been in the toilet, some companies have thought of new ways make the world of trickle-down economics work.

      http://en.rocketnews24.com/2012/05/02/segas-urine-controlled-game-console-toilets-out-now-launch-title-videos-included/

      It just might boost beer, soda, or coffee sales at pubs, clubs, and cafes??

      Perhaps Starbucks could use the added novelty. They might be threatened if a competitor manages to deliver flavor at lower costs.

      http://en.rocketnews24.com/2011/06/13/step-aside-baristas-vending-machine-grinds-beans-and-makes-drink-for-you/

      Some apparently do get their ideas in the loo.

      http://en.rocketnews24.com/2011/05/23/modern-toilet-restaurant-from-bowel-to-your-bowl/

      MS might do well to consider some radically different products. Time will tell if anything new gets much traction, but it seems like the employees that had read the old Inside Macintosh developer and Human Interface Guidelines publications dating back to the 80's have left. (In fairness, even Ubuntu seems to have had some interface regressions)

      Maybe they can add the commercial operation of prisons to their business. They could bring some jobs to the U.S. while keeping labor costs low, provide training that might help the dysfunctional transition to less troubled lives, and they could keep an eye on those not buying licenses? They could even make the prisons look like gardens.

    21. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by VGPowerlord · · Score: 2

      Yeah man. It reminds me of my Commodore 64 days..... no, even that had lower-case menus. Um. The 70s computers??? RETRO is back baby! Yeah baby, yeah! ;-)

      BUT AT LEAST IT HAS A MENU.
      Freaking Office 2010 with the ribbon crap confuses the heck out of me, because I can never find the function I want. Where's the undo function? Find-and-replace? Full justification? I know they're in that mess of Egyptian hieroglyphics, but I have no clue where.

      Let me start a stopwatch and see how long it takes me to find each one.

      Undo
      Tab: Title Bar
      Location: Third icon from the left, between Save icon and Redo icon
      Time to find: 0.5 seconds. No, seriously, it's one of the first things you see if you start looking from the top of the window and it's showing no matter which tab you're on.

      Find and Replace
      Tab: Home
      Location: far right
      Titled: "Find" or "Replace"
      Time to find: 3 seconds.

      Full Justification
      Tab: Home
      Location: Paragraph section, bottom row, fourth icon
      Time to find: 10 seconds

      Seriously, all of the things you were looking for are on the screen when a document loads... you don't even need to change tabs.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    22. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by Reapy · · Score: 1

      I like them. I don't use word everyday, and i'm not overly familiar with where menu items are. I find bringing all the menus out on the ribbon is faster to search when you don't know where things are, especially with the 'common items' all being out right there. Undo I guess I've always shortcut since every app in the entire world uses ctrl z. Justify is right there on the home tab which is up 90% of the time.

      I guess if you knew where they were in the old word it would be a pita, but for a 'casual' user, they are pretty nice imho. I say this cause I finally was able to get 07 at work a month or so ago and just got exposed to the ribbons. I have open office or whatever the f it's called now at home, but hardly ever open it.

    23. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by alva_edison · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Part of GP's complaint is that he doesn't necessarily know or can discern the meaning of the symbols. Also, it took me roughly 20 minutes to find the icons on the title bar the first time I used 2007 because I was not expecting there to be icons on the title bar.

      --
      He effected a bored affect.
    24. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by TheLink · · Score: 1

      So will Office 2020 keyboard shortcuts be Emacs style or vi?

      --
    25. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This times a million. In app buttons on the title bar? Seems to be a crappy anti-virus style ui decision.

    26. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait... If you look up the shortcuts in the menu every time you need them, then you're not using them as shortcuts. You're using the menus. You could get a printed reference or make your own reference. These things aren't trade secrets.

      Do you really switch to AmigaOS often? We'll also be ignoring the fact that there is no MS Office on AmigaOS or "GNUlinix" so that argument is kind of weird.

    27. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For local people!

    28. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by Inda · · Score: 1

      It's been the same forever though.

      Undo
      CTRL + Z

      F&R
      CTRL + H

      Full Justification
      Who the hell uses that? It's ugly in anything but newspapers and magazines, and if you're using Office for that...

      --
      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
    29. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by LilGuy · · Score: 1

      DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS .... I never realized there was a filter for all caps.

      --

      You're nothing; like me.
    30. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by lgw · · Score: 1

      No. Really. No.

      Everyone is forced into general chat by default right now, largely because you can't play from behind a D-Link router unless you're in general chat (talk about crappy netcode on Blizzards part!). So, by default you get to experience the glory of least-common-denominator chatting and constant gold-seller spam.

      I've just been floored and amazed by what a mediocre product D3 is, given the unlimted time and budget thrown at it. There's nothing too awful, but the entire product, from artwork to auction house, is consistently 'meh'.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    31. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by war4peace · · Score: 1

      Freaking Office 2010 with the ribbon crap confuses the heck out of me, because I can never find the function I want. Where's the undo function? Find-and-replace? Full justification?

      Ctrl+Z, Ctrl+H, Ctrl+J. All from memory.
      Those were the days... why use the mouse when you could use the keyboard?
      At last Microsoft kept the shortcuts consistent across versions.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    32. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by amoeba1911 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The ribbon bar in Office 2010 is the most unusable piece of crap ever. I had to memorize where all the stuff was before, now I have to re-memorize where all the stuff is because everything is in a new location that is not very intuitive.

      How hard is it to make an interface where I can just TYPE what I want to do? I want to type "line spacing" and have it bring me to the place where I change line spacing. Microsoft with their billions of dollars can't figure out how to do that? Is this a joke? So instead I have to press F1, type "line spacing" and have it show me the tips on how to do the special dance to get to where I want. In a world where the computer has 3 billion cycles per second I shouldn't have to waste my cycles trying to remember what awkward button sequence I have to perform to get the reward.

    33. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by fredprado · · Score: 1

      Yes, because it is way easier to do all the processing in a central place, overtaxing its capacity and creating a lot of escalation problems, and then uselessly throw away bandwidth transporting data from and back this place, instead of using the ridiculous amount of distributed processing power already existent to do the processing in the place it needs to be done...

    34. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      I take it you have never even seen a mainframe in person or understand what actual data is sent to a dumb terminal ( hint, none ). Basically, if you were not there you really don't have anything useful to say.

      And if you WERE around back then, you obviously missed the point of what was (is) going on.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    35. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by kimvette · · Score: 1

      Some apparently do get their ideas in the loo.

      All important decisions are not made in the boardroom, but in the bathroom:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QZB_cbjdM8

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    36. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by ipwndk · · Score: 1

      000001 */2/ THERE IS NO PROBLEM WITH CAPITAL LETTERS 000002 */2/ WHAT IS NEEDED IS 16 COLOURS TO HIGHLIGHT 000003 */2/ THE SHORTCUT LETTERS FOR THE TERMINAL 000004 */2/ COMMANDS! Well, I do not care. I work on a Mainframe :) IDE's are fun, but I am feeling the power of the old world. Especially since the terminals buffers commands. I'm ten screens ahead of what is actually displayed. PEW PEW PEW PEW. A hundred things running, and no pressure on my local development machine. (Albeit sometimes the central system is overloaded, which means coffee breaks... lots and lots of coffee breaks)

      --
      01 REDEFINE REALITY.
    37. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HAHA Cobol, all caps. I get it. Err.. except what the fuck does that have to do with anything?

      Last time I coded in cobol (today) there was no caps requirement.

      What the fuck are you talking about again?

    38. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by fredprado · · Score: 2

      I was around back then, and mainframes died because processing power became cheap, and the economic advantages of using dumb terminals became non existent, while the disadvantages of having to exchange larger and larger amounts of data and concentrating the processing power of more and more endpoints in a single node became greater and greater.

      Today we have enough processing power in about any end user device to perform the great majority of tasks I can think about. There is simply no point in relaying the task to a centralized cloud. It just wastes resources, makes things slower and dependent on online connections that are not always there and gives absolute control over your data to third parties. Cloud structure is just plain stupid and as the use escalates it will collapse on its own, because it is not sustainable.

    39. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hear hear, so underwhelming

    40. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by SpanglerIsAGod · · Score: 1

      I really wish there was a way to macro /leave general into my post login process. One time I didn't type it fast enough and got a gold spammer message!

      --
      War doesn't show who is right - just who is left.
    41. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by exomondo · · Score: 1

      There is simply no point in relaying the task to a centralized cloud. It just wastes resources, makes things slower and dependent on online connections that are not always there and gives absolute control over your data to third parties. Cloud structure is just plain stupid and as the use escalates it will collapse on its own, because it is not sustainable.

      I think the 'cloud' is mostly pointless but there are advantages too, like for example not having to roll out updates millions of client devices and having the ability to pick up any device and have access to your data and applications. Dropped your client device? Spilled your coffee on it? Lost it? Whatever, just grab another one, log in and you're back to where you were.
      Now of course you do rely on the cloud provider - and we've seen many times that even the biggest ones go down - and of course there are privacy issues (like if you have a look at some of the privacy policies and what rights you give them to the data you upload) so there are good and bad elements to it.

    42. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by fredprado · · Score: 1

      Remote storage and synchronization do justify centralized structures (at least for small amounts of non critical data), but the subject in hand, which we are discussing in this thread, is the shift in active tasks to the Cloud in a similar way we had with mainframes in the past.

    43. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you want best of breed TUI just download some oberon runtime
      Or better yet, download the foss blackbox for a GUI with TUI inside
      http://www.oberon.ch/blackbox.html

    44. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Developers. Developers. DEVELOPERS.

    45. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Remote storage and synchronization do justify centralized structures (at least for small amounts of non critical data), but the subject in hand, which we are discussing in this thread, is the shift in active tasks to the Cloud in a similar way we had with mainframes in the past.

      And that's exactly the point i noted: and having the ability to pick up any device and have access to your data and applications . Things like Google Maps, Google Docs, Office 365, etc...

    46. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by fredprado · · Score: 1

      I disagree. Applications can be easily installed locally and you gain nothing by running them from the cloud. It is handy, sometimes, to install them from a remote repository, or to synch your devices through such a repository, but running it from the cloud is only useful for the cloud owner, who can make money by renting you the "service" or sending you ads, for example. For you there won't be any advantages at all compared to just installing such applications in your device.

      A local application will always be faster more reliable and won't make you overuse your data plan limits in a mobile device without any good motive. You can synch and install very quickly all your applications from markets like iTunes and Google Play with exactly the same trouble you would have to access the remote "service", with the notable exception that you need to do it only once.

    47. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by exomondo · · Score: 1

      For you there won't be any advantages at all compared to just installing such applications in your device.

      Did you even read the post?
      like for example not having to roll out updates millions of client devices and having the ability to pick up any device and have access to your data and applications.
      by exomondo (1725132) on Thursday June 07, @07:15PM (#40251109)

      You don't have to bother with rolling out updates to all clients and the user doesn't have to install the apps locally on the device. I never said it doesn't have disadvantages but that it certainly can be advantageous in some circumstances. There is no definitive answer for which is better, both have good and bad points.

      A local application will always be faster more reliable and won't make you overuse your data plan limits

      A local application also means that you need to download and install that application on every device you want to use it on. The point is you don't have to take all of that with you all the time, you can have offline google docs on your main system but you don't have to take that system everywhere since you can use any system to get access to your applications and data, clearly an advantage.

    48. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's nothing for you here!

    49. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by fredprado · · Score: 1

      Most end users use a small number of applications and seldom have the need to update them. Even if you had to install the applications in a large number of devices you would still have to consume a lot less of bandwidth than you would by using the cloud versions and in the long run you would waste more time by using them. Even if, for some weird motive, you can't know which application you will need installed in your devices beforehand, it is a trivial matter just to install the last version when you need to use it, and most of the times it won't use much more bandwidth than using the remote version for any meaningful amount of time. And please, don't tell me that the space applications use is relevant.

    50. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by fredprado · · Score: 1

      Just to make it clear. It takes a few seconds to install or update any application I wish in my mobile phone, which is about the same time it takes to start to open, connect and start to use any cloud based application.

    51. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by exomondo · · Score: 1

      It isn't a trivial matter, if i need to access say maps or office or whatever on someone elses system your solution means that if they don't have said application then i have to download and install it, and if it is proprietary non-free software i have to deal with licensing too.
      With the cloud solution i can just log in to my account and it's all there...much much easier.

    52. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Just to make it clear. It takes a few seconds to install or update any application I wish in my mobile phone, which is about the same time it takes to start to open, connect and start to use any cloud based application.

      And just to make it clear, if i want an office suite on a PC, an android tablet and an iphone that's 3 completely different applications...or i could just go to 'docs.google.com' on any of them, in fact they don't even have to be my devices and they don't even have to have any office suite at all on them, i don't even have to store my files locally on them!

      I'm not saying 'cloud' is the solution to all problems - I don't think anyone would argue that - or that everything should go 'cloud', but it clearly has advantages, you just seem unwilling or unable to see that.

    53. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      Time to find: 10 seconds

      Seriously, all of the things you were looking for are on the screen when a document loads... you don't even need to change tabs.

      But if you aren't on the home tab? See, pre-ribbon days, those buttons were ALWAYS up, no matter what menu you were on. The ribbon got rid of toolbars, and is now one big sticky menu.

    54. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try Ubuntu 12.04 with the HUD: that's exactly what it does, allows you to find menu items by typing what you want to do, and it's absolutely brilliant! Introducing the HUD

    55. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please, go on. I guess Office has more than three functions.
      After you're done, my next question is: if recalling lots of keyboard shortcuts is seen as normal, why do you shell out $ for office instead of getting emacs?

    56. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by LihTox · · Score: 1

      Not to go Apple fanboi here, but MacOS has a feature like this: type a menu item into the search bar in the Help menu, and it gives you a list of matching menu items. I don't use it very often (though maybe I should).

    57. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by fredprado · · Score: 1

      What I am saying is that if you install (or update) "on demand" you won't have to wait any significant amount of time more in the first time you use the application and a lot less if you account all following uses in comparison with the cloud versions. Storage space for applications is irrelevant these days. Storage space for data, if a problem (which usually is not for office applications) can be solved with remote storage and remote synch even when using local applications. Given the small size of the applications compared with current transfer speeds, there is no clear advantage in time spent, or even availability, in using cloud services, and all the disadvantages I mentioned before still exist.

    58. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by cpu6502 · · Score: 1

      The advantage of drop-down menus is that you can search through the list of words in 5-10 seconds. I didn't memorize the menu..... I just looked and SAW what I needed.

      Who the hell knows what the unlabeled hieroglyphics in Ribbon means? Certainly not me. I didn't study egyptian. Plus a lot of the crab is hiding in a different tab. It takes several minutes to find what I want, instead of ~10 seconds.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    59. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have had 5 years now to adjust to the ribbon and you still haven't done it? That's pretty bad bro.

    60. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Windows 7 UI does this too, and it is extremely convenient!

      So I ask Microsoft: WHY THE FUCK CAN'T I DO IT IN OFFICE???

    61. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by EdZ · · Score: 2

      Hold the Ctrl key, and the ribbon menu will display the keyboard shortcuts associated with each icon. It's a very nice way to learn them.

    62. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by master_kaos · · Score: 1

      You just proved his point. 10 seconds? That is insane. Shouldn't take more than 1-2 seconds to find the most common buttons, and 3-4 seconds to find even the most unused function,.

    63. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft has gotten caught-up in the 'Change for the sake of change...' mentality.

      Whoever came up with this idea should be fired; immediately. It's a usability issue. All caps make it damn near impossible to 'speed read' anything. If it's in all caps you have to look at every single letter in order to read it. Not so with upper and lower case; your brain sees the shape of the work, gets a couple of hints from the letters, figures context and moves on. This is MUCH faster than having to look at each and every individual character in the word in all caps.

      Microsoft, remember on of Murphy's fundamental laws:
      IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT.

      Don't even get me going on the ribbon thing. It is a disaster from a usability standpoint. In that case, I would fire the entire crew.

    64. Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy by exomondo · · Score: 1

      What I am saying is that if you install (or update) "on demand"

      And you deal with proprietary software how? Or with platforms that don't support that software? And why bother installing it when you don't have to, even LibreOffice is 202MB, only a complete idiot would download and install that for a one-time use when they could just use something like google docs, which would clearly be faster.

      Given the small size of the applications compared with current transfer speeds, there is no clear advantage in time spent, or even availability, in using cloud services, and all the disadvantages I mentioned before still exist.

      Yet you've ignored the clear advantages - in fact you've clearly shown an inability to refute them - i'm not saying there are not disadvantages, just that there are advantages, i guess you're too set in your ways to be able to acknowledge those.

  2. Iâ(TM)m horrified. by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 5, Funny

    Iâ(TM)m horrified. Absolutely shocked. I tell you, this is the final nail in Microsoft and Visual Studioâ(TM)s coffin. Oh, and âoeMy eyes, it burns! The goggles do nothing!â

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    1. Re:Iâ(TM)m horrified. by Shinaku · · Score: 1, Troll

      Last nail in the coffin of one of the most used development environments in the world?

      --
      -- :>
    2. Re:Iâ(TM)m horrified. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Iâ(TM)m horrified. Absolutely shocked. I tell you, this is the final nail in Microsoft and Visual Studioâ(TM)s coffin. Oh, and âoeMy eyes, it burns! The goggles do nothing!â

      Your post burns my eyes.

    3. Re:Iâ(TM)m horrified. by FranTaylor · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Since when does running a batch file count as "using" the development environment?

    4. Re:Iâ(TM)m horrified. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Oh great, another interface screwed up by the design department.
      Someone should fire a few UI designers stat!

      At least it's not the worst graphical interface sold at retail.
      That honor goes to Lotus Notes.

    5. Re:Iâ(TM)m horrified. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      er, really? What planet are you from?

    6. Re:Iâ(TM)m horrified. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
    7. Re:Iâ(TM)m horrified. by VGPowerlord · · Score: 5, Informative

      IÃ(TM)m horrified. Absolutely shocked. I tell you, this is the final nail in Microsoft and Visual StudioÃ(TM)s coffin. Oh, and ÃoeMy eyes, it burns! The goggles do nothing!Ã

      Your post burns my eyes.

      I assumed the joke was that he typed that text into Word, then copy-pasted it into his web browser and submitted it.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    8. Re:Iâ(TM)m horrified. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Iâ(TM)m horrified that you canâ(TM)t seem to find a simple apostraphe button on your keyboard. (here's one you can borrow ' actually, here's a bunch ''''''''''')

    9. Re:Iâ(TM)m horrified. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No, there is no key on your keyboard for the Unicode apostrophe U+2019.

      Wait... you don't think that an apostrophe, a grave accent, a glottal stop, a prime, and a right single quotation mark are all the same thing, do you? Even poorly-written Perl throwaway code from the 90's understands the difference.

    10. Re:Iâ(TM)m horrified. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh great, another interface screwed up by the design department.

      They hired the designers that were fired from Mozilla.

    11. Re:Iâ(TM)m horrified. by Dr+Herbert+West · · Score: 2

      I've been using computers off and on since the 80s (macs/umax until 2001, then windows, and now whatevs) and I've never actually seen the Lotus notes interface in the wild. I'm aware of the program's existence, of course, but have never used it.

      Pardon my ignorance, but is that link for real? Does this Lotus thing you speak of really work like that? It was just a joke, one-time thing that never made it past beta testing right?

      Right?

    12. Re:Iâ(TM)m horrified. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What keyboard does he have that doesn't have just the plain ' on it?

    13. Re:Iâ(TM)m horrified. by Drgnkght · · Score: 1

      I've had the misfortune of using it. It is truely horrible.

    14. Re:Iâ(TM)m horrified. by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 2

      What keyboard does he have that doesn't have just the plain ' on it?

      Have you people considered that the key is broken?

      I don't know about YOU and your ability to throw away money like it grew on trees, but I canât afford to go out and buy a new kewboard âoewilly-nillyâ when people steal the keys out of my keyboard when Iâm not in my cube.

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    15. Re:Iâ(TM)m horrified. by rsborg · · Score: 1

      Iâ(TM)m horrified. Absolutely shocked. I tell you, this is the final nail in Microsoft and Visual Studioâ(TM)s coffin. Oh, and âoeMy eyes, it burns! The goggles do nothing!â

      That's not all. Try clicking on one of the images - they don't go away when you click away - you ahve to "click [x] to close" them. Modal image popups = bad jQueryUI usage pattern.

      TFA may have a point, but it's a needle buried beneath it's own haystack of usability issues.

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    16. Re:Iâ(TM)m horrified. by snowgirl · · Score: 1

      Wait... you don't think that an apostrophe, a grave accent, a glottal stop, a prime, and a right single quotation mark are all the same thing, do you? Even poorly-written Perl throwaway code from the 90's understands the difference.

      WTF? U+0294 looks nothing like an apostrophe... or do you think that a glottal stop written orthographically as an apostrophe is a separate thing from an apostrophe used for punctuation?

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    17. Re:Iâ(TM)m horrified. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Makes sense to me! J

    18. Re:Iâ(TM)m horrified. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's either a 17 year old application, or a Borland^H^H^H^H^H^H^HEmbarcadero Delphi one made today.

  3. MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode now by Viol8 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Previously barring a lot of eye candy that could be turned off , MS did generally get their UI about right. Now with spillover effect from Win8 they seem to have completely lost the plot and this is simply an example of them reloading the gun once more to take aim at whatever is left of their feet.

  4. Hands Off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    My fucking tools and workbench are not you damn designer plaything Microsoft, we're developers not plebeians. we can navigate the damn interface as it is and the things wrong with it can't be fixed by bloody changing case of menus. Go screw around with OneNote if you want to experiment with new user interface workflows and readability. I hate vendor lock-in.

    1. Re:Hands Off by TheNinjaroach · · Score: 1, Insightful

      My fucking tools and workbench are not you damn designer plaything Microsoft

      As long as you continue to purchase your tools from Microsoft, that's exactly what they are!

      --
      I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
    2. Re:Hands Off by wmac1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not everyone does the job for fun.

      I have been doing all my development work in Eclipse for the last 5-6 years. However for this specific Windows C++ project I needed to use Visual Studio. Like it or not I have a life to manage. Otherwise why would I do programming day and night at the age of 40, with a PhD in computer science? Salary of a PhD university staff is less than $1500/month and that's not enough (considering that I spent savings of 10 years of my hard work to reach the PhD dream of mine).

      When I turned into Visual studio 2012 RC hoping that it will provide better compiler, error messages, error preview and editor, I could not bear it even for 20 minutes:

      - The error list uses dark gray texts on gray background (my almost old eyes could not bear it...).
      - Clicking on an item in errors list would open the source on bottom output/error dock! in a new tab.
      - Tabs were on bottom (like the class and solution explorer), now they occupy additional space on top.
      - Menus are caps
      - You feel bored in a gray and flat environment after 12 hours of programming daily ...

    3. Re:Hands Off by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      . Like it or not I have a life to manage..............after 12 hours of programming daily

      You need to manage that better.

      Also, you can use Eclipse to edit Visual Studio projects, if you like that better.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    4. Re:Hands Off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, you might want to check out the 'compiler output' tab instead of the 'error list' tab. I've found that list usually does a better job letting me know what's going on. Not saying it's great, but it's definitely better.

    5. Re:Hands Off by Zebedeu · · Score: 1

      I've also had to pick up VS2010 (for professional reasons) after a long time of using Eclipse, and the process has been painful.
      More painful due to the fact that I'm also moving from Linux to Win7 at the same time.

      Now, Win7 is nicer than XP, and VS2010 is nicer than the previous one I'd used some 6~8 years ago, but it's all the little details and annoying "features" in VS which make it so hard to pick up:
      Document tabs now open on the left instead of the right. There's an option for that, but once the tabs overflow, their order becomes random.
      No quick way to toggle code commentting (a-la eclipse's shift-ctrl-c). There's ctrl-k-c/u or something, but it's much less usable, it's much less intelligent in how it comments the code and it was crashing VS2010 so much I started just commenting manually.
      Crappy automatic code formatting for c/c++.
      Cryptic c/c++ error messages.
      And others I can't remember now.

      My theory is that they either designed it like this on purpose so that you can't easily jump to another IDE, or that it was designed in an echo chamber by past VS users who are (poorly) reinventing the wheel.

    6. Re:Hands Off by wmac1 · · Score: 1

      If you can pay for "Visual Assist" it adds most of the features available in eclipse and makes life many times easier (Refactoring is the most important one).

      Besides the strength of VC++ is the great visual debugger. I really like that and that alone is an important parameter why I may stay with that for development of Windows software.

  5. Are you surprised? by LizardKing · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is the company that gave us the ribbon. Otherwise known as the chaos strip, since it seems to randomly rearrange itself to ensure that function you're looking for is never less than half a dozen clicks away. It's a bit like a supermarket, where they deliberately move stuff around in order to make shoppers seek out the things they usually buy in the hope they might chance across - and end up buying - things they haven't seen before.

    1. Re:Are you surprised? by smooth+wombat · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I would have used the example of, "This is the company that gave us Windows 7." Where they deliberately move stuff around in order to make users play hide and seek or hunt and peck in the hope they might chance across what they are looking for.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    2. Re:Are you surprised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      They just upgraded us to office 2007 (yeah I work at one of those companies).

      All I can say is, nailed it on the head with the chaos strip. Fuck that thing is annoying. I mean the old way of doing things was painful, but we were used to it.

      And yeah, it's like they sat down and made a list of the most commonly used features, then made damn sure they would all be on seperate tabs.

      I work on fairly complex (actually out of scope for word.. but it's what has been dictated) documents with a lot of sectioning and page magic .. and I feel like I have to re-learn all my old hacks and workarounds.

    3. Re:Are you surprised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Oh jesus. Let's all act like it's the end of the world... together now!

      It's caps on a topmost menu. Like you'll have a hard time reading " DEBUG " the second time. The visual structure decision does make more sense for something you're only going to active "read" once in your life. Because after that, it's effectively an icon.

      Besides, they'll probably make it an option.

    4. Re:Are you surprised? by excelsior_gr · · Score: 1

      I really don't mind clicking, this is not what is wrong with the ribbon.

      The problem with the ribbon is that you have to think in order to use it. You have to take a moment and think what you want to do so that you can figure out where you have to click in order to find the appropriate tool. It is actually rather well structured if you consider that it is a hard thing to group abstract menu items and tools in a meaningful way. It will work in favor of someone with little or no previous experience, but it is a pain for a trained used.

      In this particular case, thinking is bad! When I write a document, I want my mind to be with what I am writing. In the old-fashioned way you could connect functions with locations and motions that, after a while, would come to you as natural. For example, if you place the picture toolbar on the lower left corner of the window, then every time you want to edit a picture in Word, your hand will automatically move the mouse in that direction. You don't have to explicitly think about it. It is kinda like driving a car or playing a computer game. You don't actively think while stirring, it just comes in a natural way.

      With the ribbon, I very often get annoyed that I have to take my mind away from what I'm doing in order to find the stupid menu buttons. And I find working with it much slower and counter-productive. Yes the old menu took up space and looked ugly, but it worked for me.

    5. Re:Are you surprised? by MrAngryForNoReason · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This is the company that gave us the ribbon.

      I understand that if you are someone who knew exactly where every option was then the ribbon would be a step back. But from my point of view it makes it much easier to find features that were previously buried in the menus.

      The point of the ribbon is to expose useful features to the user so they actually use them.

    6. Re:Are you surprised? by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      This is the company that gave us the ribbon.

      I understand that if you are someone who knew exactly where every option was then the ribbon would be a step back.

      I didn't know where those options were in the menus... and I don't know where they are on the ribbon, either.

      So from my viewpoint it's no change other than wasting more space on my screen.

    7. Re:Are you surprised? by oldmac31310 · · Score: 1

      The ribbon is atrocious. But you can turn it off at least. On a Mac.

      --
      http://www.acetonestudio.com
    8. Re:Are you surprised? by Reapy · · Score: 1

      I just got upped to 07 as well. I guess I am not really into crazy docs, and I only touch word when I'm forced at gun point really. I'd rather just type a text file up (generally don't have to write long documentation).

      Anyway for casual use, like justify text, use default headers, table of contents, and bullet numbering and a table here or there, everything is right up in your face.

      I can see from reading a lot of posts here how when you get into more advanced features and things it could be a major pita.

    9. Re:Are you surprised? by Reapy · · Score: 1

      I find that if I want to just write text stream of conscious and get ideas on paper, the best bet is to just avoid word all together, use something like notpad++ with word wrap and go.

      Even the red underline misspellings can slow me down as I go back to correct. Granted when you do finally paste it all into word, it can be a pita to correct everything, but still, it always seems best to get the ideas out somewhere that you don't have to think about the format, then when you have it all laid out, throw it back into word and mess around with the formatting stuff while you go back over the draft.

    10. Re:Are you surprised? by Anrego · · Score: 2

      What's really annoying is they made the stuff that mostly worked worse, and left the stuff that doesn't work completely alone.

      I too work on large word docs. I'd love to do them in latex (or just about anything else), but it's what the customer wants (they want to be able to change them themselves easily).

      Revision tracking (the "track changes" feature) still has all the old annoyances. When you are using fields and cross-references they still don't update automatically. The old "print preview" to get them to update still works, and of course the annoying "even references that didn't change get crossed out and re-added" so you now have a change on every reference throughout the entire document. The old "disable track changes, print preview, re-enable" hack still applies. There is still no way to search or filter or do anything meaningful with the revision pane that isn't a complete nightmare.

      Adding captions to images is still completely and totally fucked up, especially if you are using custom styles. Table of contents generator is still screwed up. The old list continuation bugs are still there (but are harder to fix now as word is trying to be too smart and it actually prevents you from doing the hacks that would fix these problems in the past. And of course section management is a nightmare as before, but all the options are buried!

      Ok.. I'm gonna stop before I start frothing at the mouth.

      I will admit that if you are just doing a quick document with nothing special, the ribbon (or chaos strip, that's a good one) works fine. But then again, the old toolbars worked fine for that stuff too! I guess what it comes down to is, has the chaos strip actually made anything easier, or did it maintain the status quo for easy stuff, and made hard stuff harder.

    11. Re:Are you surprised? by Anrego · · Score: 1

      Totally this!

      The old way was chaotic.. but it was also organic. Everything was in a big mess everywhere.. but it was right there when you needed it.

      The new way is well structured, but totally misses the mark when it comes to comfortable work flow. As you said, it adds a series of jarring pauses to the process.

    12. Re:Are you surprised? by TheLink · · Score: 1

      The other problem with the ribbon is it's harder to walk someone through it over the phone. You may have to resort to keyboard shortcuts - hopefully there's a keyboard shortcut for what that person wants to do.

      FWIW, I've actually proposed a "phone support" interface: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/29001/

      --
    13. Re:Are you surprised? by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Anyone who cared about a given feature knew where it was. Lack of understanding on the part of the lazy and stupid doesn't constitute a valid reason for a UI redesign for everyone. It's like printing every commonly used shell command before each new prompt, but then renaming them all at the same time to instantly transform your power users into newbs. And then renaming them again based on what folder you're in.

      You cannot fix stupid, and usually not lazy either. The same people who ignored your feature when it was hidden behind a menu (and rightly so) will *continue* to ignore it when it's in plain sight.

    14. Re:Are you surprised? by djdanlib · · Score: 1

      Double-click the tab header OR in 2010 click the chevron at the right to hide the ribbon, so it looks menu-like. Then you can hover over the tab and the ribbon will un-hide while your mouse is over it. Problem solved!

    15. Re:Are you surprised? by lgw · · Score: 1

      Now it just takes more clicks to do what I used to be able to do. And I can't make custom toolbars like I used to! God I hate that fucking ribbon with the burning heat of 1000000 suns.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    16. Re:Are you surprised? by sdnoob · · Score: 1

      It's a bit like a supermarket, where they deliberately move stuff around in order to make shoppers seek out the things they usually buy in the hope they might chance across - and end up buying - things they haven't seen before.

      i hate that even more than when developers fuck around with established, familiar, usable UIs.

    17. Re:Are you surprised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It will work in favor of someone with little or no previous experience, but it is a pain for a trained used

      Actually, you are quite wrong on this point. My daughter, now in High School, has only used Word 2007. Here is a quote from her from just last night while working on a paper for school, "I hate Microsoft. I REALLY hate Microsoft." Her very first comment about using a word processor (the same one) a few years ago was, "I'm getting FRUSTRATED!!!".

      I honestly think Emacs (and I'm a VI guy) is easier to use then Word.

    18. Re:Are you surprised? by excelsior_gr · · Score: 1

      And that is why I use LaTeX for anything longer than 4 pages. You get to work with a non-obtrusive ASCII editor of your choice, plus the fact that the text looks fine at the end. You only need to worry about formatting at the very beginning of your work (when you pick your template) and at the very end (when you go through the manuscript to improve its looks).

    19. Re:Are you surprised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what the Office ribbon did was make those who most use, and most depend on Office frustrated. I still use Office regularly (not really a choice in business) but I use it more slowly and absolutely require Google open to find out how to do things that I had known how to do for years.

    20. Re:Are you surprised? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      They rewrote big pieces of Windows 7 that changed where stuff was. They could have gone out of their way to keep things where they were while simulaneously adding a shitload of new configuration options (and there are a LOT of them as compared to XP... I am lumping Vista and 7 together) but then it would have had all the friendliness and user-approachability of KDE. You can bring up the control panel and type to find the function you're looking for, so what's the problem? Don't have a SSD so it takes forever to do that? Me too. But, buy a SSD. Don't complain that Microsoft "moved" things. They made massive changes to the control panel system which enabled them to expose more options without making the user's brain asplode by putting more functions into already-overloaded control panels.

      If you want to complain, complain that XP Mode sucks shit. The strong suit of Windows has always been backwards compatibility. Some of my games don't work. Games are the only reason I run Windows. Fail, fail. Now I only run Windows on the one machine that won't run anything else.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    21. Re:Are you surprised? by JustSomeProgrammer · · Score: 1

      ... I've made custom ribbons because I was having trouble finding some options I used frequently. I didn't know you used to be able to make custom menus...

    22. Re:Are you surprised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The point of the ribbon is to expose useful features to the user so they actually use them.

      If that were the case, then the ribbon would take up most of the screen so more features were exposed. The purpose of the ribbon was to make it look like Office was "new".

    23. Re:Are you surprised? by Waccoon · · Score: 2

      And then once they find something interesting, it disappears, never to be seen again.

      For some reason, people still tell me I should suck it up and accept the new, dynamic Start menu in Windows 7, because it's awesome. Well, it's awesome if you only use 5 programs and you know exactly what you want so you can type in the name. Of course, if that's all you need, then the dynamic menus are redundant, anyway! If you just got the OS and want to see what's there, or if you do a lot of stuff, menus that automatically re-arrange are a nightmare.

    24. Re:Are you surprised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, and they buried the features that we all use the most...

    25. Re:Are you surprised? by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      Games are the only reason I run Windows.

      Same here. And I hear that all the time.

      I strongly suspect that we'll be hearing a lot more of it when Windows 8 comes out. Microsoft has nothing new to offer and hasn't for many years. OK, Kinect. But that's not relevant to desktop users.

      The only reason I've ever had to upgrade a Microsoft OS is to support newer hardware. Now supporting new hardware is a really good thing. So are bug fixes and security fixes. The problem is that you get all this useless change and bloat that goes along with it.

      This ALL-CAPS menu thing jumps the shark, even for Microsoft.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    26. Re:Are you surprised? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The only reason I've ever had to upgrade a Microsoft OS is to support newer hardware.

      I lurve when people upgrade their Microsoft OS, because of all the hardware it doesn't support. I get all my scanners that way. Thanks, HP, for your driver practices!

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    27. Re:Are you surprised? by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      Actually, I don't think I've upgraded Windows since I put XP on my kids' Windows 98 computer about 8 years ago. The only reason I have Windows 7 is because I bought a computer with it. Windows 7 works fine for the most part... no reason to go back to XP, but if I were running XP I can't imagine having a reason to go to 7.

      Actually I have one laptop with Windows 7 on which I run games, my netbook and desktop run Linux.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
  6. All of the "new UIs" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It seems that all of the newest UIs - whether they are from Microsoft, Google, Apple, etc. - all suck. They are flat, colorless, abominations where you can't even tell what the user interface elements do or if they are even supposed to be user interface elements. I spent a good amount of time yesterday and today in Visual Studio 2010 and it has a very nice UI. I know they need to "newify" everything in order to say "new and improved" - but damn. All upper case, all grey, all lame.

    1. Re:All of the "new UIs" by Anrego · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Totally agree.

      I think it's being driven by the cell phone / tablet craze. Everyones trying to make their desktop look like their cellphone. I too think it's a major step backwards.. and I think a lot of the UI design guys are out of touch with what people actually want.

    2. Re:All of the "new UIs" by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Me three.
      I really don't see any UI improving, anywhere; they're all getting worse. Google's new Gmail UI sucks, MS's UIs have almost always sucked, but are getting much worse now with Metro, most of the Linux UIs are going down the crapper with Gnome3 and Unity sucking for usability (at least KDE is still doing OK and seems to be fixing its bugs), etc.

    3. Re:All of the "new UIs" by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      Well, the suckage started when the web got big. Everyone rushed to make their desktop apps look and work like web pages and real UI improvement ceased. 15 years later everyone is rushing to make UIs look like another much more limited environment: mobile devices.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    4. Re:All of the "new UIs" by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Even worse, many desktop applications (as we used to call them) are going the way of the Dodo, being replaced by web-only apps.

    5. Re:All of the "new UIs" by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      Well, in some cases, that can be good. In some cases, it's the best thing to do. For instance, web-based e-mail isn't such a bad thing (although I prefer using a native e-mail client).

      In other cases, it's just sad. How many companies are still using Excel to handle order forms or customer data when they should be doing something web-based? You'd be surprised.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    6. Re:All of the "new UIs" by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      And when I say "using Excel", I mean "using Excel and mailing equivocally named .xls[m] files all over creation" or if they are a step up from the IQ of a cabbage (say that of a radish), working off of a shared network drive.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    7. Re:All of the "new UIs" by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Honestly, I'm not sure I agree with this. Yes, using Excel to handle these things is pretty dumb once you grow past a certain point (like when you hire your first employee maybe...). However, I don't think I really agree with this whole web-based application craze; web-based apps are slow, for good reason: they're running inside browsers, using a giant hack of a combination of a markup language, an interpreted language on the client side to make up for deficiencies in the markup language, and an interpreted (usually) language on the server side. The whole thing is a giant mess, and native applications were better, even if they were working with a server on the backend.

      The main reason web apps have gotten so popular is because native applications only run on one OS, and also because with crappy Windows, they usually have to be installed on every single computer separately, instead of rolling them out automatically and remotely as can be done in Linux. Sure, for email it's helpful, but that's mainly because people like to be able to read their email from different computers.

  7. Relearning... by Atzanteol · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As I understand it road signs (or many of them) in the UK used to be in caps but studies showed that mixed-case was much easier to read (which mattered more as cars got faster) since we're looking for familiar patterns.

    Looks like Microsoft will need to re-learn this lesson...

    --
    "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"

    - Charles Darwin
    1. Re:Relearning... by MightyYar · · Score: 2

      since we're looking for familiar patterns.

      ALL CAPS WILL BECOME FAMILIAR. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED!

      (Side note: I typed half of that sentence before remembering that there was a caps-lock button... I think it is the first time I've used it.)

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    2. Re:Relearning... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      one of the two people who made the original road signs for the uk highways was on topgear, and she did indeed explain that mixed case was chosen because reading it was faster, since reading fast is more about recognizing the "shape" of a word than reading the individual letters

    3. Re:Relearning... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's not a question, simply the existence of lower case letters proves it. Why would they ever be invented?

    4. Re:Relearning... by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 0, Troll

      I DO MILITARY DRAFTING SO CAPS LOCK IS ON ALL THE TIME.

      WELCOME TO MY WORLD BITCHES

      Oh, due to the Slashdot filter assuming ALL CAPS is offensive, I have to fill the next three lines with cursing.
      Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    5. Re:Relearning... by khr · · Score: 2

      which mattered more as cars got faster

      Maybe Microsoft is trying to slow down the speed of development.

    6. Re:Relearning... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RESISTANCE IS FUTILE. WE WILL ADD YOUR BIOLOGICAL AND TECHNOLOGICAL DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. WE ARE THE BORG EHM WE ARE MICROSOFT.

      yes yes it's yelling.
      yes yes it's yelling
      yes yes it's ywlling
      yes yes it's yelling.
      yes yes it's yelling.
      yes yes it's yelling.
      yes yes it's yelling.
      yes yes it's yelling.
      yes yes it's yelling.

    7. Re:Relearning... by jythie · · Score: 1

      The thing to remember about those studies though is they are native language specific.

      Which actually makes me wonder if this menu change might be a surface sign of who the users (or designers) of their UIs are. The combination of upper and lower cases is easier for us to read because our language tree uses it to distinguish things. Not all languages work that way and quite a few trees do not differentiate, and some of those languages are dominant in some developing markets....

    8. Re:Relearning... by Missing.Matter · · Score: 1

      Good thing we're not programming on a speedway then. The menus will stay in the same place forever. After using the software for a day, the menus could be written backwards and in Spanish and you would still know exactly what item you're clicking on, since by then it will be a muscle reflex and not a task of speed reading. Further, the uppercase menu has larger buttons, therefore they're easier to target and by Fitts' law the time to access a menu goes down.

    9. Re:Relearning... by nine-times · · Score: 1

      I don't have backup for this, but I believe it has been well established that if you don't want to mix cases, it's much more readable to keep everything in lower case. The differences between lowercase letters is more dramatic, which is part of the reason we use them in most of our writing.

    10. Re:Relearning... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I turned my caps key into an extra control key, one of the best things I've ever done to my computer.

      http://johnhaller.com/jh/useful_stuff/disable_caps_lock/

    11. Re:Relearning... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, I read like that too. I find it hard to read text when lazy morons only use lowercase. Is it so hard to hit shift now and then when you expect dozens of people to read your comment?

    12. Re:Relearning... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah I wouldn't trust anything those brits have to say about cars. Hell, they drive on the wrong side of the road despite the fact that most people are right handed (if left if better why didn't they put the accelerator on the left and the brake on the right, hmmmm?).

      Maybe they should do a usability study about driving on the left.

    13. Re:Relearning... by cdrguru · · Score: 1

      I suspect if you are driving a car while trying to use Visual Studio there are many folks wishing you were on the road alone. I suppose having the menus easier to read while speeding down the road would be a slight improvement, but like texting while driving I think "visualstudioing" while driving is insane.

    14. Re:Relearning... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Ironically, Microsoft itself did a study on word recognition back in the day. Turns out that
      lower case is much easier to read, the main reason being that we see far more lower-cased letters, and hence our pattern recognition is better trained against them.

      On the other hand, the notion that this is because the word shape is what's being recognized (and lowercase letters have more varying shapes) is not true. We recognize letter combos, not words as a whole.

    15. Re:Relearning... by Daniel_Staal · · Score: 1

      So use it in the native-language versions for those markets.

      --
      'Sensible' is a curse word.
    16. Re:Relearning... by JustSomeProgrammer · · Score: 1

      I only got two lines of cursing on my display. I demand my money back.

    17. Re:Relearning... by ais523 · · Score: 1

      I mapped Caps Lock to Compose, and use Compose more often than I used to use Caps Lock. (Most long-time Slashdotters will likely have it mapped to Control or Escape, depending on whether they're Emacs or vi fans.)

      --
      (1)DOCOMEFROM!2~.2'~#1WHILE:1<-"'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1"
    18. Re:Relearning... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Larger buttons?

      Really? thats your bonus?

      Why not just - you know - make the buttons larger without making the text all caps.

    19. Re:Relearning... by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      Maybe I'm crazy, but the menus are not only easily readable in the article but I would say more readable in the font/all caps they chose.

  8. Blog author knows what they are talking about by chaidawg · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Only someone who has a website with such bad usability can truly see horrible usability in others' work.

    1. Re:Blog author knows what they are talking about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      haha seriiiously

    2. Re:Blog author knows what they are talking about by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

      I wish I had modpoints...

    3. Re:Blog author knows what they are talking about by hjf · · Score: 5, Informative

      You beat me to it. The guy is whining about "usability" and yet:

      his website is a horrible mix of:

      • Late 2000's Rounded edges
      • Late 1990's Awful Blue and thick lines
      • Early 2000's OS X style rounded button menu
      • Text in the buttons not vertically centered
      • Corners around the silly rounded "logo" aren't transparent
      • I had to move the jQuery picture window to see the stuff, and scroll horizontally to close it clicking on a tiny X
      • "Picture window -> click X to close". Really, usability guy?

      I could go on but I think I've pointed enough mistakes. I can't believe someone with a website like that has the nerve to criticize Microsoft (or anyone) for using uppercase menus.

    4. Re:Blog author knows what they are talking about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's using a default Joomla CMS theme, don't know which version as I use a superior CMS.

    5. Re:Blog author knows what they are talking about by OverZealous.com · · Score: 4, Insightful

      While I agree with those complaints, every single one of them except the jQuery window problems are design issues, not usability problems.

      The two areas of expertise are independent yet often correlated because they frequently go hand-in-hand during the design of an interface. You can easily have ugly yet highly usable, or stylish and entirely unusable.

      The all upper-case menu is actually a usability issue and a design issue. Not only does it look bad, but it also makes reading more difficult because humans process the shapes of whole words. All uppercase words are basically rectangles. It also makes distinguishing independent menu items more difficult (although proper negative space would help with that).

      But that picture pop-up window thing is atrocious.

    6. Re:Blog author knows what they are talking about by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Honestly, his site isn't that bad. The only usability problem on his site is that his column is sized for a small screen, and his picture window is made for a large screen.

      Besides, you don't have to be a master chef to know if a restaurant's food tastes bad.

    7. Re:Blog author knows what they are talking about by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      A thief cannot call out another thief? Sheesh

    8. Re:Blog author knows what they are talking about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find it ironic that the guy complaining about ALL CAPS in the main menu bar uses the same principle on his home page, using ALL CAPS for the article titles.

    9. Re:Blog author knows what they are talking about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Late 2000's Rounded edges
      Late 1990's Awful Blue and thick lines
      Early 2000's OS X style rounded button menu

      Usability != fashion. STFU.

    10. Re:Blog author knows what they are talking about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey you flaming idiot. It's not about his web site; it's about Microsoft making a BIG mistake.
      Stay on context.

  9. Structure by Talderas · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When each menu items starts with a cap then there is structure because you can see the change in height, marking the start of the next menu item.

    Call me blind. But this rant is blown out of proportion. He's complaining about structure, yet there is a very clearly delimited blank space between menu items a blank space which is much large than present in the mixed case version. In fact, I find it a lot easier to read the menu item word in the all capital version compared to the mixed case most based on the large spacing alone.

    --
    "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    1. Re:Structure by perryizgr8 · · Score: 0

      yeah, i hate the double standards people have when its microsoft software. take the color issue for example. whole of macos is gray, but its a beauty imagined by the greatest artists that ever walked on this humble planet. the new visual studio is gray, microsoft is stupid, even though its probably the best ide that exists.

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
    2. Re:Structure by iMadeGhostzilla · · Score: 1

      Agreed. If you take a look at your screen right now, you will find few, if any, all-caps words. So those that are attract a bit more attention, and not too much more. (You don't want them screaming in different colors.) Just enough to shave off a few milliseconds in navigation every time you need a menu command.

    3. Re:Structure by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      If that is so, then surely mixed case + large spacing would be the best of all?

    4. Re:Structure by gstrickler · · Score: 1

      ...take the color issue for example. whole of macos is gray, but its a beauty imagined by the greatest artists that ever walked on this humble planet.

      No, it isn't. It's not all gray and hasn't been since the Mac II was introduced circa 1987. But more to you point, many users have complained about Apple changing the icons in iTunes from color to gray a couple versions back, and some enterprising third parties have created replacement icons to bring the color back precisely because it's NOT ok.

      --
      make imaginary.friends COUNT=100 VISIBLE=false
    5. Re:Structure by fzammett · · Score: 1

      The problem is that MacOS has *always*, as a generality, looked as it does today. Oh, clearly it's evolved of course, and I doubt anyone would say what it is today doesn't look MUCH better than what it used to look like... but the overall aesthetic in terms of a somewhat subdued color palette has been that way for a while now.

      With Windows though, that's only STARTING to be the case now. So we notice.

      Think of it this way: if all you ever had was the cheapest, toughest steak out there, and you gradually got better cuts, you'd be happy. If you started with the best cut available and went the other way, you'd complain to no end. I don't mean to say Windows (or VS in this particular case) has been top-cut steak all along, just that the changes MS is pushing now are giving us sirloin, or worse, and so we notice much more than we notice that MacOS has always been giving us sirloin, more or less :)

      --
      If a pion (n-) collides with a proton in the woods & noone is there to hear it, does lamdba decay into the source pa
    6. Re:Structure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      THE YOU ARE ONE A MILLION.
      MOST OF US 'LESSER' INDIVIDUALS FIND IT MUCH FASTER TO READ MIXED CASE.
      ALSO, EVERY STUDY I'VE EVER SEEN ON THIS ISSUE FLATLY DETERMINED THAT MIXED CASE WAS EASIER AND FASTER TO READ.
      NOW, WE ARE DISCUSSING A DEVELOPMENT ENVIRONMENT. I USE VS 2010 EVERY DAY. I DON'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT HOW PRETTY IT IS OR IF IT USES TILES OR MENUS. I JUST WANT TO GET MY WORK DONE BEFORE MY PM HAS A FIT.
      ANYTHING THAT DETRACTS FROM THAT GOAL IS DETRIMENTAL TO GETTING THE JOB DONE.
      AND BELIEVE ME, RADICAL CHANGES TO THE UI IN THE DEVELOPMENT ENVIRONMENT WILL PO EVERY DEVELOPER OUT THERE. ESPECIALLY UN-NECESSAY, I'VE GOT TO PROVE I'M WORTH $250,000 OR WHATEVER THEY PAY THE NUMBSKULL THAT CAME UP WITH THIS, CHANGES THAT ARE TOTALLY UN-NECESSARY.
      DID YOU ENJOY READING THIS UPPERCASE RANT?

  10. CamelCase by SJHillman · · Score: 4, Informative

    "Developers are the people who invented CamelCase"

    I think chemists has developers beat by a century or two. Now please pass the NaCl.

    1. Re:CamelCase by Dynedain · · Score: 2

      No kidding. CamelCase is just plain ordinary Title Case with the spaces removed because programming languages expect names to be OneWord.

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    2. Re:CamelCase by Score+Whore · · Score: 2

      You guys have strange camels where you come from. Around here it's camelCase, the hump is in the middle(ish).

    3. Re:CamelCase by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your camels don't have heads?

    4. Re:CamelCase by danlip · · Score: 2

      That's drinkingCamelCase (head down) versus StandingCamelCase (head up). Both are camelCase.

  11. I LIKE IT by RGladiator · · Score: 0

    I actually like the all caps menu structure. Going by the screenshots in the linked article I think I'd find the new version more useful. It makes the items stand out without taking up more of the screen.

    1. Re:I LIKE IT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a freaking menu, you expect it to be there, it doesn't need to have all the items standing out.

    2. Re:I LIKE IT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually, look again. It does take up more of the screen. They even moved an element to a different row to make up for the loss.

    3. Re:I LIKE IT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      the all-caps version is considerably wider and I'd prefer if my menus weren't YELLING AT ME.

    4. Re:I LIKE IT by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Why would you want main menu to stand out? It's on top of the window precisely so that you always know where it's at without it shouting for attention.

      Besides which, in an IDE, main menu is a control mechanism of last resort. For most common actions, you'd use a shortcut, with toolbar second next.

  12. Backronyms. by khr · · Score: 2

    Maybe we can come up with backronyms for each of them, that way, like the SQL menu, they can all be acronyms that require capitalization.

    1. Re:Backronyms. by dcollins · · Score: 4, Funny

      Even better: Circular backronyms!

      FILE -- FILE Input Listing Element
      EDIT -- EDIT Document Interface Tool
      VIEW -- VIEW Interface Element Window

      etc.

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    2. Re:Backronyms. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HELP Everyone Learn Programming?

    3. Re:Backronyms. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Errr, well, they are recursive acronyms actually :-)

  13. And suddenly, I have a strange... by logical_failure · · Score: 1

    ... desire to migrate my team to Eclipse.

    --
    Sock Puppets: damn_registrars=pudge_confirmer=jimmy_slimmy=raiigunner=cml4524=a_klavan=red4men=ronpaulisanidiot
    1. Re:And suddenly, I have a strange... by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1

      Lolwut? If you're doing .NET that would be ridiculous. If you're doing C++ then go for it, though moving to an inferior interface from a superior one due to cosmetic changes you don't like at first blush seems a little overblown. If you're doing cross platform C++ or Java or something else, why are you using VS?

    2. Re:And suddenly, I have a strange... by logical_failure · · Score: 1

      Because for all it's faults, Visual Studio is one of the better IDE's out there.

      Eclipse isn't bad, but it's not as good as Visual Studio. If MS is intent on fucking up VS, then Eclipse is the next best choice.

      KDevelop is also pretty good. Anjuta, NetBeans both suck, and Apple's XCode is a monumental failure of an IDE.

      --
      Sock Puppets: damn_registrars=pudge_confirmer=jimmy_slimmy=raiigunner=cml4524=a_klavan=red4men=ronpaulisanidiot
  14. Re:well, after all... by TWX · · Score: 3, Interesting

    it is from MicroTard, so whadja expect?

    Regardless of one's feelings on Microsoft, that company has consistently and continually tried to make their user interfaces as attractive and easy to use as is possible. They've gone through the effort to develop fonts, to determine how to add pseudo-3d effects, how to space things and how to define icons and sizes. Whatever your beef with Redmond, the UI is the one thing that I will wholeheartedly disagree with you about in almost all circumstances.

    If they dropped the ball here, then that's absolutely amazing. Literally amazing. They've built a company and made some of the richest people in the world on how pretty and easy to use their software products are, at the expense of what those interfaces run on for lower level code. If they're losing touch with UI now, that doesn't bode well for them for the long term. They certainly won't disappear, but their non-OS products would lose market share and once people stop being locked in to their non-OS products, they have little reason to stay with the OS itself if other vendors have multiOS versions of competing products.

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  15. The answer is simple by JAlexoi · · Score: 2

    The answer is simple, the person that was dictating the names of the menus was a very loud one. So his assistant wrote exactly what he was DICTATING!!!

  16. Justification? by wbav · · Score: 2

    At what point did Microsoft need a justification for anything they do? They just do what they want and expect others to live with it. Look at Windows ME. Look at Vista. It is only when users won't pay they back down.

    The article, which is based on a blog post, mentions that it is not obvious how to change the case. If you read the blog post it says they haven't settled on how Microsoft will expose a change of case feature. My guess is you'll have to customize the menu, just like what's been done in Visual Studio for years.

    --

    =================
    Unix is very user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are.
    1. Re:Justification? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      The article, which is based on a blog post, mentions that it is not obvious how to change the case. If you read the blog post it says they haven't settled on how Microsoft will expose a change of case feature.

      There is a registry key that lets you disable this already. The question rather is whether and how it will be exposed in proper settings UI.

      My guess is you'll have to customize the menu, just like what's been done in Visual Studio for years.

      If you mean manually editing the titles, then no, it won't work that way. If you open menu customization in VS 2012 and look at the captions, they're actually all proper cased - "File" etc. The uppercasing effect is applied programmatically (which is why you can turn it off via reg key).

    2. Re:Justification? by wbav · · Score: 1

      If you mean manually editing the titles, then no, it won't work that way. If you open menu customization in VS 2012 and look at the captions, they're actually all proper cased - "File" etc. The uppercasing effect is applied programmatically (which is why you can turn it off via reg key).

      Thanks for clarifying, I haven't had a chance to run 2012 yet. Yeah, that's not right.

      --

      =================
      Unix is very user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are.
    3. Re:Justification? by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1

      Rubbish. Uninformed rubbish. Microsoft is _incredibly_ open with developers about changes, and seeks a ton of feedback. That's why VS11 has been out for a while, so they could get feedback.

      In fact, they already made changes based on developer feedback to add more colors back.

      One lone blogger does not an outcry make.

    4. Re:Justification? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      One lone blogger does not an outcry make.

      No, but 1500 people who voted against this on UserVoice do. As do all the blog comments.

  17. New in IE10 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's next? Bringing black the blink tag?
    Clippy 2.0?

    1. Re:New in IE10 by dingen · · Score: 1

      The blink tag never left, just like the marquee tag. Seriously, try them out. They work in almost all browsers.

      --
      Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
  18. Project Direction by brningpyre · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is such a laughably bad decision, I can't see it making its way into the final product. I even tried to type this post in all-caps, but /. reminded me that it was wrong. When it comes to something people have known and taken for granted for years, it seems very odd that Microsoft would go backwards and decide on this. Exactly where is the leadership for this project?

    1. Re:Project Direction by Missing.Matter · · Score: 0

      Laughably bad? On the scale of bad things that have every been done, this is at most eyebrow-raisingly bad.

  19. Big Fing deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Its a single control, if you dont like it you then have two options.

    1) Dont use it
    2) Roll your own. (Pretty simple)

    Or is this just a reason for MS haters to piss and moan?

  20. "Microsoft Ignores Usability" by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Historically speaking, you really could have stopped right there.

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
  21. Mountain out of a molehill by dittbub · · Score: 0

    Does it really matter? Why all upset over a menu? Caps or no caps its still quite easily workable as a fucking menu.

    1. Re:Mountain out of a molehill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First world problems.

    2. Re:Mountain out of a molehill by jones_supa · · Score: 1

      Indeed. We have reached a point where the current GUIs cannot be taken much further, so all there is left to do is to wank over little things like this.

  22. Re:well, after all... by DrXym · · Score: 1
    I think they're just trying to (lamely) skin their developer studio with a Metro like theme to put Devs in the mindset of developing to that . Problem is that DevStudio is a classic windows app and until such time as it runs on Metro itself it should look and feel like other classic windows apps.

    Of course it may be that they put an idiot in charge of the look and feel for their developer tools. Given how they've already been one through one firestorm of criticism for using monochromatic icons that could well be the case too.

  23. Ribbon menu by avandesande · · Score: 5, Interesting

    How come they haven't created a 'ribbon menu' for Visual Studio? Perhaps this is tacit admission that the Ribbon Menu sucks and is inefficient.

    --
    love is just extroverted narcissism
    1. Re:Ribbon menu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Ssssshhh! Don't say stuff like "'ribbon menu' for Visual Studio", Microsoft might hear you!

    2. Re:Ribbon menu by avandesande · · Score: 5, Funny

      I used to code .NET but am a manager now. Suddenly a VS Ribbon Menu sounds appealing! ;-)

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    3. Re:Ribbon menu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Because sane people realize that all problems do not have the same solution. Honest question : Are you retarded?

    4. Re:Ribbon menu by Schnapple · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's because you can rely on a developer to be able to figure out the right way to do things even if he has to go through menus and such. The average person will just uses spaces instead of tabs because they don't know what they're doing

    5. Re:Ribbon menu by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      That reminds me of my last job. I had to work in a bullpen environment (now euphemistically called an "open plan work area"). The managers always told us how this was better "for collaboration" (even though, as a software engineer, I rarely needed to talk to others in person). The only problem with this collaboration claim: the managers touting it, who were also the people who did the most talking in their jobs, had walled offices.

    6. Re:Ribbon menu by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      How come they haven't created a 'ribbon menu' for Visual Studio? Perhaps this is tacit admission that the Ribbon Menu sucks and is inefficient.

      No, it's tacit admission that most people using VS are professionals who know their way around it very well, and don't react well to change for the sake of it.

      (Don't ask me how that meshes with ALL CAPS)

    7. Re:Ribbon menu by avandesande · · Score: 1

      The guy I replaced wanted to do this- instead I have been working out a telecommute strategy with remote scrum and whatnot. Not all manager suck :-)

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    8. Re:Ribbon menu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The average .NET programmer will prefer tabs to 4 spaces, actually.

    9. Re:Ribbon menu by cbhacking · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Ribbon is quite the opposite of inefficient, in terms of finding things and clicking them. Some people claim to be incapable of operating it properly, but I truly do not understand this. It groups and sub-groups in a way similar to a menu, but with much more visible at-a-glance, without submenu delays, and with more images and less text. Additionally, sections are shown when relevant and removed otherwise, instead of having a fixed menu bar that, if you don't have an image slelected (for example), is clickable but has every option under it greyed out.

      The problem with the ribbon is that, while it aids discoverability and rapidly performing common actions, it's less space-efficient. Given the truly phenomenal number of configurable options and user-initiatable actions in Visual Studio, it might just not be possible to fit a suitable number of items on a ribbon for any display of less than excellent horizontal resolution. Sure, many developers will have such a display, and for them (us), an optional ribbon might actually work very well. For people still coding on screens less than 1500 pixels wide or so, or for people who like to tile Visual Studio with another window on the same screen, the ribbon would just be too truncated.

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    10. Re:Ribbon menu by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      Ribbon is quite the opposite of inefficient, in terms of finding things and clicking them. Some people claim to be incapable of operating it properly, but I truly do not understand this. It groups and sub-groups in a way similar to a menu

      That is because the ribbon IS a menu. It is one big sticky menu, that never goes away. The problem is, if I show another menu, the items on the first menu are no longer visible. Things that used to be one click away are now two or three.

    11. Re:Ribbon menu by ax_42 · · Score: 1

      In terms of software usage, you can split people into broadly three groups: beginners, intermediates and experts. Most of your people are in the intermediate group for a piece of software they regularly use. Getting from "beginner" to "intermediate" generally takes only a few hours. The main problem with the ribbon is that it is aimed squarely at the beginner user (find stuff easily), but is annoying to the intermediate (who wants to "do the stuff I want to do, easily") and exceptionally annoying to the advanced user ("do lots of stuff quickly and efficiently"). On top of that, there is no way to switch the damned thing off and go back to button bars (which are great for intermediate/advanced users). So you end up annoying everyone except the people who are using your tool for the first time.

      TL;DR: Ribbon is designed to annoy 80%+ of all users, epic fail.

      Read a book if you want more detail, good place to start would be "About Face 3: Essentials of interaction design" by Alan Cooper.

    12. Re:Ribbon menu by avandesande · · Score: 1

      What do you have to back that up? I am a speed reader and my eyes have to travel over a much smaller area in a menu I can pick things out instantly. Icons mean nothing to me and I have to scan ribbon menus often several times to find things and the menu itself is over a much wider area.

      I wouldn't never complain about ribbon menus if you could switch to the old style--- yes I 'get it' but it doesn't work for me.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    13. Re:Ribbon menu by cbhacking · · Score: 1

      What do you mean, "never goes away"? Even in Office 2007 (first release of the UI), you could hide the ribbon by double-clicking the ribbon tab that was currently open. In subsequent versions, there's even a button on the left side of the ribbon to hide/show it.

      What menu system are you expecting Word to be using where you can show more than one menu at once? The items on a non-expended tab of the ribbon no more or less visible than the ones on an unexpanded menu...

      The ribbon actually allows much more one-click access than a traditional menu does; if you don't hide the ribbon, then everthing at the tab you last used is exactly one click away. Unless you pin a menu upen (something Word doesn't generally do) you'll always have to click the menu, then go to the menu item... how is this in any possible way fewer clicks than using the ribbon?

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    14. Re:Ribbon menu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Besides burying things in an unfamiliar way, the ribbon sucks for one basic reason: It takes up desktop real estate, and it usually takes up lots of desktop real estate. Kinda like all those tool bars that install themselves in web browsers.

      The net effect, your work area gets smaller. Let me say that again; it reduces the size of your work area.

      This affects productivity.

      Now you might be saying to yourself; who is this guy to make all these claims.
      34 years - programming/software engineering
      Apple Evangelist
      Original member - HUG - Human Usability Group
      Artist/Photographer/Graphics Designer
      Mechanical Engineering

    15. Re:Ribbon menu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ribbon menu styling really isn't that bad in Autodesk Inventor and Solidworks it is a very efficient, however Microsoft seems to be incapable of properly implementing it.

  24. Glasshouses by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1
    Usually a site either has a horizontal scrollbar (if the web designer thought everybody had a screen as large as his), or horse blinkers (if the web designer thought everybody had a screen as small as his, or was just envious of those people who enjoy a larger screen).

    This guy here somehow has managed the feat to have both... and then has the gall to pontificate about usability!

    Congratulations!

  25. It's like a retard bomb exploded in Redmond by BenJeremy · · Score: 1

    Somebody nuke it from orbit before the madness spreads to the rest of the country.

    I'm no Apple fan, but somebody on another forum made a great point... Apple doesn't force iOS-like interfaces on desktop users... so WTF is Microsoft so hell bent to do this? It's like they have a perpetual hard on for anything Metro now.

    Is there something I'm missing here? I do not want Metro on my desktop. Windows 7 does everything pretty well, and Windows 8 adds NOTHING that I would care to add to Windows 7.

    Windows 8 is not an enhancement, it's a terrible compromise that isn't needed in the first place.

    Now we developers are being forced to wallow into the mind-numbing Metro-style crap, just to use the latest tools, even if we stick with Win7. Really?

    1. Re:It's like a retard bomb exploded in Redmond by bertok · · Score: 1

      It's a form of group think, like religion or certain aspects of politics. There have been great studies done that show that once someone has "bought into" an idea to a sufficient degree, evidence to the contrary actually re-affirms their belief instead of causing them to reconsider their position. Just imagine someone who is proud of successfully holding onto their cherished beliefs despite the constant assaults by nay-sayers.

      The whole Metro thing is like this. Some twit of a manager came up with the concept without really thinking it through, then rammed it down the throats of everyone else at Microsoft. Internally this is easy -- most people just say 'yes' to whatever their boss tells them to do. I bet that there were a few engineers that disagreed vocally, but they were likely ignored, something managers are naturally good at doing.

      Now it's too late. They're committed, and can't go back without losing face. It doesn't matter how logical the argument is against Metro, it can't possibly change their plans now, so the only thing they can do is ignore criticism, or pretend that it's somehow invalid. I bet their sales people have been talking a lot about "future direction", even though it is rather obvious to everyone that desktop PCs aren't magically going to morph into 10-inch tablets in the next nine months... or ever. Their vision has become so myopic that they even applied Metro to the server editions of Windows! I installed Windows Server 8 Datacenter Core, and the first thing I noted was an animated pop-up that said something like "tap here for more details". Ugh...

      Meanwhile, the WinRT APIs, UI changes, and other associated work has sucked up all of their developer time, so there's very little new in either Windows 8 or Visual Studio, despite huge gaping holes in their feature sets. You're not going to see C99 support, and their C++11 support is a joke. Essentially, the only new features that were added were those that could be implemented by changing the standard library, not the compiler itself. WPF performance is still shit. Instead of expanding the .NET Framework, with WinRT it seems to be actually shrinking.

      The only compelling new feature that I can see in Visual Studio 2012 for me is the "async" stuff, but even that seems half-baked. For example, limiting the concurrency of tasks is not straight forward. Java has had an elegant concurrency library for a decade now where this and related problems are easily handled, but Microsoft still doesn't get it. You can't just throw 10,000 asynchronous tasks at a disk, because it'll go crazy from all the seeking. You can't queue up 10,000 tasks with significant data, because your program will run out of memory. Look at the examples on the MSDN site for "async" programming. How many of the examples explicitly set some sort of maximum pending task queue length? I've found only two out of hundreds, and both required the use of semaphores or similar low-level thread programming.

    2. Re:It's like a retard bomb exploded in Redmond by BitHive · · Score: 1

      What? The latest release of OS X is heavily influenced by iOS. Launching applications is now very much like in iOS, they even inverted the default scrolling behavior and started using the skinny transient scroll bars.

    3. Re:It's like a retard bomb exploded in Redmond by PRMan · · Score: 1

      Exactly. If you want Metro that's fine I guess (I hate it, it's like modern art compared to a Rembrandt, but whatever floats your boat).

      But for Windows 8 to be successful, it HAD to be built on the .NET Framework. WinRT is a joke, a mess and will be a failure. Nobody wants 20% of the .NET Framework that we are all used to to try to write new apps in. They should have paid Novell a few million and bought Mono from them instead.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    4. Re:It's like a retard bomb exploded in Redmond by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft doesn't use the .NET framework for their own GUIs because they know that it's not good enough.

      There were posts in the Visual Studio forums that basically said that a key driver for many of the new 'features' in WPF 4.0 was that 3.5 wasn't good enough to use to for Visual Studio 2010's GUI! They added or fixed core issues like layout rounding, font rendering, virtualized controls, and a bunch of other stuff that should have been in WPF since its first release. If they can't couldn't write a simple app that displays only text using WPF 3.5, why would they expect it to work for their customers?! Why would we believe them now, considering that WPF 4.5 has only a few minor improvements?

  26. Re:well, after all... by Stormwatch · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Regardless of one's feelings on Microsoft, that company has consistently and continually tried to make their user interfaces as attractive and easy to use as is possible.

    Which only proves that trying hard does not mean you will necessarily succeed.

  27. A registry hack for this already exists. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    it's been circulating on teh internets _atleast_ since late May.Once VS start reporting back that more and more people are reverting back to regular style menus they'll make it an option inside VS itself, albeit hidden behind some rarely used obscure menu. Nothing to see here, carry on.

    1. Re:A registry hack for this already exists. by bmo · · Score: 1

      it's been circulating on teh internets _atleast_ since late May.Once VS start reporting back that more and more people are reverting back to regular style menus they'll make it an option inside VS itself, albeit hidden behind some rarely used obscure menu. Nothing to see here, carry on.

      You mean like how they removed the registry entry to turn off Metro and have a normal desktop?

      --
      BMO

    2. Re:A registry hack for this already exists. by a90Tj2P7 · · Score: 1

      I'd be surprised if there wasn't some way to turn it off. Metro really wouldn't fly for businesses or kiosks. It'd likely end up being buried somewhere, like how you can disable the Windows 7 startup sound via group/local policy.

    3. Re:A registry hack for this already exists. by bmo · · Score: 1

      I'd be surprised if there wasn't some way to turn it off

      Nope. There *was* a way to, in the Developer's Preview, an obscure registry entry that wasn't obvious to anyone, but when the Consumer Preview rolled around, it was removed, and legacy code in Explorer was removed yet still in the Beta to *make damn sure* nobody can turn off Metro.

      The only way to remove Metro now is to remove Explorer and replace it with something else.

      Metro really wouldn't fly for ... kiosks

      Actually, it's probably better for kiosks than 7 is. It's touch oriented and full screen is nearly mandatory (there is a way to split and have two apps on one screen, but it is... suboptimal from what I've seen)

      businesses

      I don't think 8 is geared for enterprise at all.

      --
      BMO

    4. Re:A registry hack for this already exists. by a90Tj2P7 · · Score: 1

      I'd be surprised if there wasn't some way to turn it off

      Nope. There *was* a way to, in the Developer's Preview, an obscure registry entry that wasn't obvious to anyone, but when the Consumer Preview rolled around, it was removed, and legacy code in Explorer was removed yet still in the Beta to *make damn sure* nobody can turn off Metro.

      Oh, I know the prior method for turning it off is gone. But it's hard to say there won't be a way to do it until we see group policy templates.

      I don't think 8 is geared for enterprise at all.

      There's a dedicated Enterprise version for volume licensing. It and Pro, like usual, take the "normal" version and give it the abilities to join a domain, process group policy, use EFS, host RDP, etc.

    5. Re:A registry hack for this already exists. by bmo · · Score: 1

      But it's hard to say there won't be a way to do it until we see group policy templates.

      I dunno man, that seems overly optimistic to me at this point. They really seem to be doubling-down on Metro. To back down would be admitting defeat.

      volume licensing and enterprise features

      No, that's not what I was getting about. Of course they're going to keep domain and RDP stuff and such. I don't think that the Metro UI team is on board with enterprise one bit. I see a lot of businesses sticking with 7 until the bitter end because of metro. But that's just speculation on my part. I'm not alone in that opinion though.

      --
      BMO

  28. The last refuge of the unimaginative by jlv · · Score: 0

    We’ve chosen to use uppercase styling in the top menu for two main reasons: 1) to keep Visual Studio consistent with the direction of other Microsoft user experiences, and 2) to provide added structure to the top menu bar area.

    "Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative." - Oscar Wilde

    1. Re:The last refuge of the unimaginative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are absolutely right! I WilL NoW sToP BeInG SoO ConSisTaNt!

  29. Did they run out of things to fix? by excelsior_gr · · Score: 2

    Seriously?

    What happened to the "if it's not broken, don't fix it" motto? Did anyone complain that the menu list, that everyone knows where it is and what is there to expect, did not stand out enough? Or that it lacked any other visual property? At least with the ribbon they tried re-thinking the topic "menu" and took a shot at providing something different (whether you like it or not is another topic). What exactly were they trying to achieve with this modification? What a horrible waste of resources...

    For the record, I find it a bit childish and old-fashioned in caps, but, actually, I couldn't care less.

    1. Re:Did they run out of things to fix? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, they did. They discovered back with Office 2000-XP-2003 that they can't just put in Clippy in one version and take out Clippy in the next version and expect you to pay both times. So now they need to make unnecessary changes so people don't just keep using the version of the software they bought ten or twelve years ago which still works more or less fine.

  30. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Mod up! This is absurdly true. Office got a new interface that it didn't need that seems no better (just different) from its last interface. Now the same thing is being done for windows. Why not just add a "Tablet/Phone Shell Mode" and be done with it? I'd me much more interested in a faster file system, fast, usable search (still waiting, Microsoft), fewer blue screens, Azure presented in such a way that anyone can host any windows application, legacy or not (Once again, they miss the obvious).

    In the last 20 years, Microsoft has been busy solving problems nobody I know seems to have had. I guess they're just going to continue the tradition.

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
  31. Screen Readers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This is going to break compatibility for most modern screen readers. "EFF EYE ELL EE" is going to old pretty quickly.

    1. Re:Screen Readers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I somehow doubt many blind people will be using Visual Studio regardless.

    2. Re:Screen Readers by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Screen readers only use visible captions as a last resort measure. If an app explicitly provides accessibility information, like logical structure of the UI, that's what gets used. And VS does just that.

  32. ESL by xdor · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Developing software for a global bank many moons ago, the software recipients preferred/required capitalized menu items and input fields. As English was not their first language, they explained that CAPS were easier for them to read.

    So either Microsoft's focus group is global or their developers are

    1. Re:ESL by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

      Developing software for a global bank many moons ago, the software recipients preferred/required capitalized menu items and input fields. As English was not their first language, they explained that CAPS were easier for them to read.

      So either Microsoft's focus group is global or their developers are

      Except that Microsoft already does internationalization on its products. Visual Studio isn't an exception to this.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
  33. About your side note... by alexhs · · Score: 2

    "Obligatory" bash quote

    --
    I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of killer sig, which this margin is too narrow to contain.
  34. Why Terminals used to use all-caps by Mozai · · Score: 0

    There's an old story that hackers tell each other 'round the fire. Long time ago, when line-printers were being built, the engineers didn't have enough space for the hammerheads for a full typewriter set, and they had to decide to use upper- or lower-case letters. The engineers agreed that lowercase serif was best, because it was more readable than upper-case and had enough difference between letters to recognize mistakes faster. A manager stopped them, and said "no, we must use upper-case letters, because it would be disrespectful to output the name of our Lord Almighty in lower-case letters."

    And interfaces since then have suffered because of one manager's insistence that religious observances are more important than useful function.

  35. Blog Author Ignores Usability With Page Layout by meheler · · Score: 1

    Author of notorious blog "I Programmer" ignores usability and readability by cramming entire articles into a fixed-width page and using only 1/4 of that fixed-width for content.

    The all-caps menu is irksome and MS has gotten plenty of vitriolic feedback about it. Why does /. feed that horrible blog's hits with this pointless article?

  36. addin can fix it? by caywen · · Score: 1

    I wonder if a simple adding can fix this. Just walk the menus and change the labels?

    1. Re:addin can fix it? by 1ini · · Score: 1

      HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\VisualStudio\11.0\General\SuppressUppercaseConversion REG_DWORD value: 1

  37. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The are trying to pull off an Apple - they think if they impose a UI of some "stylish artsy type" and enforce it (eg. Metro), that then somehow that will translate into their stock prices going up 100x.

    They forgot that Apple's UI has that thing called usability while being "stylish artsy type" too.

  38. Sam Says It's Sleight Of Pussie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Distract you with pussie and hid problem at hand of sleight.\

  39. Change is bad. Need structure by Cyko_01 · · Score: 1

    Sounds like someone forgot to take there OCD meds.

  40. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2

    They make change for change's sake, like car companies. I still hate the icon-based Office 2010.
    The pictures are meaningless for user "discovery", AKA the process where people figure out what is where. So it offers nothing over purely text-based menus and just uses up valuable screen real estate. I love having all those fat bars taking up a grand total of almost 50% of the screen space, crowding out the actual data.

    "Oh! You can reduce them! Just go into blah blah blah cmd prompt tar -xvf..."

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  41. Microsoft researcher even proved it was bad! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Microsoft researcher even proved it was bad!
    http://www.microsoft.com/typography/ctfonts/WordRecognition.aspx
    Left hand, meet right hand!

  42. This reflects .... by PPH · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... Microsoft's attitude towards its users. Yelling at them.

    Next up: They are going to replace Clippy with a flying chair.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:This reflects .... by gerddie · · Score: 1
      THIS IS NOT YELLING THIS IS THE VOICE OF DEATH ENTERING YOUR HEAD.

      Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING. Filter error. Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING. Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.

  43. Mainframe is really a marketing term. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Define "Mainframe".

    From what I can see, "mainframe" is a term for very expensive ultra performance hardware.

    Car analogy: What's a "luxury" car? An Audi is just a Volkswagen with some minor differences but a more powerful engine and other bells and whistles. A Lexus is just a Toyota with some minor differences. tc ...

    Today's "servers" or "workstations" would blow the doors off a mainframe from 20 years ago. Some "mainframes" are just massively parrell processed PCs.

    Where's the line? Pretty soon, all of that power will be in one chip. And then what?

    The cloud .... client/server where the server is a server farm???

    1. Re:Mainframe is really a marketing term. by Chirs · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Define "Mainframe". From what I can see, "mainframe" is a term for very expensive ultra performance hardware.

      Nah, it's more than that. It's about redundancy, high I/O relative to compute power, optimization for throughput rather than latency, and high availability.

    2. Re:Mainframe is really a marketing term. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From what I can see, "mainframe" is a term for very expensive ultra performance hardware.

      That's a supercomputer.

      A mainframe is one built for extreme availability and high I/O.

    3. Re:Mainframe is really a marketing term. by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Nah, it's more than that. It's about redundancy, high I/O relative to compute power, optimization for throughput rather than latency, and high availability.

      Well, in the banking industry, e.g., all these things actually do qualify as performance.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    4. Re:Mainframe is really a marketing term. by sjames · · Score: 1

      Mainframes are for reliability. They measure their uptime in years if not decades. They tend to emphasize I/O performance over computational. Virtualization is a given (and has been since the '60s). They also go to extremes for backward compatibility often implemented as a combination of hardware features and an emulator that uses them. It's not that uncommon to run an old emulator inside a newer emulator in order to be compatible with very old software.

      These days, there are mainframes built up from commodity PC parts but with extra glue and a different architecture to preserve the mainframe characteristics.

    5. Re:Mainframe is really a marketing term. by SpinyManiac · · Score: 1

      I thought the definitions were like this:

      A mainframe turns an I/O bound problem into a compute bound problem.
      A supercomputer turns a compute bound problem into an I/O bound problem.

      I can't remember where I found that.

      --
      It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
  44. It can be turned off by Ececheira · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you go to the source, http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2012/06/05/a-design-with-all-caps.aspx, they note that there will be an option to disable it.

    There's also a blog post that shows the registry key that works today to disable it.

    1. Re:It can be turned off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Woah woah woah. We are trying to have a 2 minutes hate session here. Don't interrupt that with facts.

    2. Re:It can be turned off by Missing.Matter · · Score: 2

      Thank you for bringing some sense to this discussion. I miss the days when Microsoft was an evil empire. Back then Slashdot really had something to complain about. You'd get a story about Microsoft destroying competition and whole industries through sabotage and subterfuge, and the Slashdot community would be outraged! Outraged I tell you!

      Now, Slashdot still wants to be outraged at Microsoft, and it really seems like we're scraping the barrel here. Seriously, minutia like top level menu case is not something to be outraged about. It's pretty much the most insignificant thing in the world, and on top of it all you can disable it. Seriously Slashdot, it's time to find a new boogeyman.

    3. Re:It can be turned off by firewrought · · Score: 1

      If you go to the source, http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2012/06/05/a-design-with-all-caps.aspx

      Thanks for the link! It was worth visiting to see them (try to) defend the decision and read people's reactions in the comments. I like the not-so-subtle insinuation that their users are screaming monkeys reacting on emotions instead of the calm, well-thought out logic that they so generously employee while studiously finding the most "effective way of providing structure and emphasis".

      I am forming a hypothesis that designers can rationalize any decision they've taken a fancy to, no matter how obtuse. This ALL CAPS thing a great example (better than the new-tabs-open-on-left feature they introduced previously), so here's what I think: their real goal with this change is to remind programmers not to make arrogant design decisions while they're coding. :O

      --
      -1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
    4. Re:It can be turned off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not sure you have to cite that for this audience.

    5. Re:It can be turned off by bbbaldie · · Score: 1

      From the MSDN post: "Then please, DON'T make ALL CAPS the default... If a developer wants it, he or she can opt-in." I believe that's the point of this /. discussion, Yet-Another-Ribbon-Type-Piece-of-Shit-Forced-Upon-Our-Paying-Customers. For additional references, see Vista, Server 2008, IIS 7, etc.

    6. Re:It can be turned off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you go to the source, http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2012/06/05/a-design-with-all-caps.aspx, they note that there will be an option to disable it.

      There's also a blog post that shows the registry key that works today to disable it.

      Yuh huh, and they said the same thing about the newer Start Menu nonsense in Vista and 7 with respects to reverting it back to a saner format similar to XP. How's that Start Menu working out in Windows Metro? Er... 8?

    7. Re:It can be turned off by Tridus · · Score: 1

      They thought they were giving us the greatest thing since sliced bread when they came out with the first version of VS 2012, featuring such innovations as monochrome grey icons on a grey background that turn grey when disabled.

      When users revolted, they only had two options. They could either admit that their ideas suck, or they could simply dismiss the users as irrational people who don't understand all the great things that Microsoft is doing.

      Guess which one they picked? It's a disease that infects Redmond and also explains why they think Metro on the desktop is anything other then a total disaster.

      --
      -- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
    8. Re:It can be turned off by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      TFS is not entirely correct, either. The real story explains people outrage better. Let me explain.

      "The recent release of Visual Studio 2012 contained a UI element that few believed could make it into the final version — ALL-CAPS menus. After lots of user criticism and disbelief, Microsoft has moved swiftly to do something about it — by tweaking the typography.

      In fact, the first release of VS 2012 that contained ALL CAPS in some form was the beta, but there it was used for tool windows (panes), not for top-level menu.Here is what that looked like - note "SOLUTION EXPLORER" etc, but regular menu. Users complained loudly about it back then. It wasn't the only sore point, but it was one that was by far the most "popular".

      Then RC comes, and removes ALL CAPS from tool windows... only to put them into the main menu instead. Needless to say, the users were not amused when that happened after the clear feedback that caps are pointless and annoying. Now there's a new UserVoice submission for that, which quickly gets into top 10.

      And after all that, the linked blog post comes out that explains that caps are actually just fine and will stay, despite "some people" not liking them!

      At this point, it's not really about caps themselves. As you say, there is a reg key to change it, after all. It's more about how user feedback was handled (or ignored) along the road.

    9. Re:It can be turned off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Downmod this fucking cocksucker for posting outside of slashdot groupthink.

  45. Re:well, after all... by TWX · · Score: 2

    True, but their consistent domineering market share in OS and productivity suite markets does speak to their general success. Even their arguable failures like Microsoft Bob and Windows Vista have given them things that could be integrated in to other products or could be revised as whole products.

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  46. Micrognome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What are they thinking? Have they hired the designers from Gnome 3?

  47. Menus OK, but icons? by michaelmalak · · Score: 2

    The uppercase is deck chairs. The uppercase does make it look a little cleaner; yes, and the tradeoff is a little harder to read. Not a big deal either way. But if you've read any of the Windows Metro philosophy papers, the "chrome" was supposed to go away and be replaced with blank panels, clean typography, images, and animation -- in short, give desktop apps the same clean appearance as iPhone apps. Then why is there still a strip of little-used icons? Does anyone really click the floppy icon to save? No, of course, not. You either click CTRL-S, or, since it's Visual Studio (and I don't know why Borland and Eclipse don't do this), you just click "Build" and it saves automatically. And all the other icons, I still don't know what they do after 20 years of using Visual Studio.

    After reading the Metro philosophy papers, I was initially excited. I was eager to see how Microsoft was going to adapt its products to the new philosophy. Now I see that has gone the way of Longhorn WinFS. And besides, I've since realized that it's better to target HTML5 (with Canvas -- pixels finally come to HTML) than Metro anyway.

    1. Re:Menus OK, but icons? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then why is there still a strip of little-used icons?

      Please don't give them the idea. Then we'll have another inflammatory post on Slashdot about Microsoft ignoring usability with the removal of the disk save icon. The spike in blood pressure might kill on of these nerds.

    2. Re:Menus OK, but icons? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Then why is there still a strip of little-used icons? Does anyone really click the floppy icon to save? No, of course, not.

      You'd be surprised.

      Actually, VS 2012 comes with a very trimmed down default set of toolbars, and the way this was done was, to a large extent, by looking at how often specific commands are invoked from a toolbar. And for some reason people really like the floppy...

    3. Re:Menus OK, but icons? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      And besides, I've since realized that it's better to target HTML5 (with Canvas -- pixels finally come to HTML) than Metro anyway.

      I don't get it. As you say yourself, Metro is a design philosophy, not a technology. You can absolutely target Metro with HTML5 (including canvas and whatnot). Indeed, that's kinda the big selling point in Win8 app development story.

    4. Re:Menus OK, but icons? by PRMan · · Score: 1

      Seriously. Icons I use:

      Open. Build. Comment/Uncomment. Step Out. Run. Stop. Pause.

      A Normal Menu with a button bar with 7 large buttons would be great.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    5. Re:Menus OK, but icons? by exomondo · · Score: 1

      And besides, I've since realized that it's better to target HTML5 (with Canvas -- pixels finally come to HTML) than Metro anyway.

      You mean target browsers? It's not a choice between HTML5 and Metro.

  48. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by c · · Score: 5, Funny

    > In the last 20 years, Microsoft has been busy solving
    > problems nobody I know seems to have had.

    That's not entirely fair. In the last 10 years, Microsoft has been very busy solving problems they themselves created in the previous 10 years.

    That being said, Windows 8 is looking like they're ready to start another 10 year cycle of creating new problems.

    --
    Log in or piss off.
  49. SO WHAT?? by backslashdot · · Score: 1

    THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH ALL CAPS TEXT!!!!!!! IT DOESN'T MAKE IT SHOUTING!!!! NEITHER DO EXCLAMATION MARKS!!!! THEY ARE JUST EXTRA PIXELS ON THE SCREEN AND DON"T GENERATE ANY NOISE!!!!@!$!# YOU IDIOTS!!@!%!*!(!)p0!-!!!

    loppity loppity lpooity loppity loppity loo loppity loo tru-da loo bopppity boo boppity Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Aenean augue est, venenatis nec porta a, pellentesque commodo quam. Vestibulum elementum velit commodo mauris accumsan tempus. Ut sagittis feugiat dui ac vestibulum. Morbi ut mi eu nunc fermentum lobortis. Pellentesque vitae est arcu, id vestibulum lorem. Ut nibh felis, semper vel lobortis sed, fermentum in dui. Etiam nec lacus viverra nisl varius fringilla a et tellus. Suspendisse vitae purus eget leo vehicula euismod eget quis metus. Proin dapibus velit non turpis aliquet adipiscing. Aenean in pharetra dolor. Morbi hendrerit dolor nec tortor laoreet sagittis. Proin vel tempus enim.

    1. Re:SO WHAT?? by TranquilVoid · · Score: 1

      THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH ALL CAPS TEXT!!!!!!!

      Precisely. Just like the ribbon, studies show that existing users only find menus/lowercase easier because they're used to it. ONCE YOU READ THINGS IN ALL CAPS FOR A FEW YEARS IT REALLY IS EASIER. YOU'LL SEE. Same for driving on the other side of the road and brushing your teeth with your left hand.

  50. Grow up, Microsoft by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 1

    In the 90s, when mass computing was new, software from Microsoft was designed by young, arrogant 20-somethings with no thought for usability or the needs of customers, usually business customers. It's 2012 now, not 1992. The world changed - Microsoft hasn't. Users got older and less tolerant of giggly nonsense and unstable systems. They don't want to learn new stuff. They want to get their tasks done. Period. Businesses need results, not the latest and coolest anything. Cobol still exists for a reason.

    Apple got this, and succeeded, and even stayed culturally cool. Their software is about the task, not the software itself. Microsoft still hasn't got it. The culture of arrogant, don't-give-a-shit-about-you-if-you-can't-figure-it-out, cool, 20-something males is still very much in evidence in each release.

    Grow up Microsoft. Nobody cares about you or your software. The moment there's a better, equally affordable alternative (which Linux could be if marketed correctly), there we all go. Make it easy, be polite and never, never patronize and you might have a chance at survival, but I'm not betting on it.

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
    1. Re:Grow up, Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Grow up Microsoft. Nobody cares about you or your software. The moment there's a better, equally affordable alternative (which Linux could be if marketed correctly), there we all go.

      So what you're saying is that everyone would jump ship if a worthy alternative came around, except there already are plenty? They have no problem selling VS, despite being $$$-$$$$ a copy. There have been alternatives for years, but VS hasn't been going away. "Nobody cares" except the market that keeps eating it up, even with the MSDN subscription that takes another $$$-$$$$ a year per copy.

    2. Re:Grow up, Microsoft by Missing.Matter · · Score: 1

      Apple got this, and succeeded, and even stayed culturally cool. Their software is about the task, not the software itself.

      It's hard to take you seriously with this; Steve Jobs is (was) well known for putting form before function.

    3. Re:Grow up, Microsoft by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 1

      A common misconception. What Steve Jobs did was realize that *humans* mattered, not the machine. Machines only exist to serve *humans,* right down to being pretty and easy to use. He had his priorities straight, unlike the designers at Microsoft.

      --
      Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
    4. Re:Grow up, Microsoft by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 2

      True. The factor here is, "The easiest interface is the one you already know." That, and software compatibility, are the two chains that keep everyone tied to Microsoft. At the moment, they're even screwing that up.

      --
      Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
    5. Re:Grow up, Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A common misconception. What Steve Jobs did was realize that *humans* mattered, not the machine. Machines only exist to serve *humans,* right down to being pretty and easy to use. He had his priorities straight, unlike the designers at Microsoft.

      Oh right because he never came out and said the machine was fine but the human that was using it was the problem...oh wait.

  51. Re:well, after all... by Kenshin · · Score: 1

    "Regardless of one's feelings on Microsoft, that company has consistently and continually tried to make their user interfaces as attractive and easy to use as is possible."

    Are you talking about the same Microsoft I know?

    Oh, right, they're "trying".

    --

    Does it make you happy you're so strange?

  52. Just like everyone else by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Aren't the desktop environments (gnome and friends) pulling the same crap.
    Broken UI that people don't like isn't just a MS thing, it's infected free software too.

    Face it, the "big guys" think they know better than you.

  53. Re:well, after all... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The only Windows OS with a UI even remotely better than it's peers is Windows 7. Given what I've seen of Windows 8 this appears to have been a fluke.

    Whether or not Microsoft tries to make better user interfaces is immaterial, as they don't seem to be succeeding.

  54. Use doublewidth by KiloByte · · Score: 2

    Meh, using mere ALL CAPS is so ASCII. Can't they at least use CJK doublewidth ("fullwidth") characters (U+FF00..U+FF7E) for yelling? Everything but Slashdot can support those.

    --
    The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
  55. The internal problem with "Metro" by Kenshin · · Score: 1

    "Metro" seems to have a very loose definition within Microsoft.

    It's like "Sandwich". Unless you explicitly define the types of bread, types of filling, types of condiments, and way of cutting it, each department is going to end up with their own very different sandwich. Ham and cheese on a bun, PB&J on white bread, possibly some pita wrap, and eventually some bizarre abomination from someone with no kitchen skills whatsoever.

    The problem is that the corporation is too large and unwieldy to properly enforce the design goals throughout.

    --

    Does it make you happy you're so strange?

  56. Nothing New by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Micro$oft has been fucking developers in the ass for ages ... have you already forgotten the migration from the good and powerful SDK help browser to that retarded piece of crap web-based shit? Or what about all the (often unnecessary) API and library changes? Just kick that old dead horse in the bin already and move on! :-(

  57. Looks good to me. by MaWeiTao · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Clearly, whoever wrote that article is not a designer. Capital letters are NOT inherently more difficult to read. They're more difficult when you've got a paragraph of text. But when you're talking about buttons and menu items they can aid in legibility and emphasis.

    In my experience programmers make for the worst designers. Admittedly they have specific needs, but like anyone else they're slaves to habit. So just because they want something a certain way doesn't necessarily make it right. There's always backlash when someone deviates from the expected, even if it's for the better.

    I actually like the all caps approach. The menu items are very clear and legible. They're a lot more distinct than in the traditional initial caps approach. Now, you could argue that it makes them too prominent. It may also have the side effect of de-emphasizing the Application title too far.

    So to suggest that this approach somehow ignores usability is ridiculous.

    I notice that the article also takes a jab at the all-grey interface. If they're going to knock Microsoft for this then they should take aim at the worst offender of all: Apple. I've always found that Windows provides enough contrast between windows, using distinct borders and colored headers, that it's fairly easy to pick them out. In OSX, however, everything blends together.

    I do find it amusing that this I Programmer site is dumping on Microsoft for something so minor when the site itself looks like total shit. Look at that freaking logo of theirs.

    1. Re:Looks good to me. by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Uh, in other words, your a windows fanboy who can always think of a reason to defend Microsoft, while simultaneously attacking your preferred enemies. Apple has nothing to do with this story, and if you can't distinguish between windows on OSX, there's something wrong with your eyes.

      Actually that might explain why you like VS12, because there IS something wrong with your eyes, and the ugly layout helps you see things better.

      Carry on.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    2. Re:Looks good to me. by Tridus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The only people worse then programmers at design are designers who have become totally disconnected from their audience. Like say, the ones doing this. The audience is programmers. They probably know what they want, and the areas Visual Studio needs improvement in were not caps locked menus and monochrome grey icons.

      Also, all caps is harder to read: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15990443 . We've known this for decades. It was determined before Microsoft existed. They were with the program for a while, then this "Metro" disease showed up in Redmond and now everybody is screwing everything up and calling it Metro (though when they call VS Metro I really don't know what they're talking about, unless Metro is code for ugly).

      And while we're on it, what does Apple have to do with this? You're saying they should bash Apple for something that Microsoft just changed their UI to do. Since Microsoft wasn't doing it and now is, why wouldn't we go after them for screwing it up when they had it right before?

      --
      -- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
    3. Re:Looks good to me. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      In my experience programmers make for the worst designers. Admittedly they have specific needs, but like anyone else they're slaves to habit. So just because they want something a certain way doesn't necessarily make it right.

      That is generally true, but in this case we're not talking about a choice between doing it one way or another. We're talking about leaving it be, or changing it for some unclear reason which seems to not go well with most of target audience.

      I notice that the article also takes a jab at the all-grey interface. If they're going to knock Microsoft for this then they should take aim at the worst offender of all: Apple.

      The reason why they don't is because Apple dev tools are irrelevant for the majority of people who use VS daily. Their point of comparison is the previous version of VS.

    4. Re:Looks good to me. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Capital letters are NOT inherently more difficult to read.

      Nonsense. Humans recognize words by shape. Mixed case words are inherently more easily recognized.

    5. Re:Looks good to me. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Humans do not recognize words by shape. They do, however, recognize letter combinations by shape, and they do recognize lowercase letters better. So you've got the right conclusion, but wrong premise.

  58. Re:VS is horrible by logical_failure · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We all know VS is and always has been the worst IDE in the world.

    Knock, knock.
    WHO'S THERE?

    The Worst IDE in the World.

    Oh, hi, Apple's XCode! Now GTFO.

    --
    Sock Puppets: damn_registrars=pudge_confirmer=jimmy_slimmy=raiigunner=cml4524=a_klavan=red4men=ronpaulisanidiot
  59. Why is this treated as a story? by g051051 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    As much as I loathe Microsoft and everything they do, it’s silly to post this as a news story. Who’s Mike James, a.k.a. “mikejuk”? What’s this other than his opinion? Does he have any design and usability chops to speak of, so we can treat this as anything other than trolling? I’m willing to believe that they actually conducted real usability studies and decided to try this because it worked better. Even the Ribbon, which I personally hate, was a hit with most users.

    Is it generally considered appropriate for authors to submit their own “stories” to Slashdot?

    1. Re:Why is this treated as a story? by asylumx · · Score: 1

      MY KINGDOM FOR A MOD POINT...

  60. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 5, Funny

    Speaking of Windows 8, maybe they should just get rid of the menus altogether! Instead, you should have to point to an invisible, 2-pixel-wide area of the lower-left corner of the window to see a full-screen page of active tiles representing what Visual Studio can do with your project. Each tile should move, spin, twirl, or change color in some way to keep your eyes busy while you look for the item you want. And since it's hard to do multi-touch on a desktop, it should require two mice to operate!

  61. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by R3d+Jack · · Score: 2

    Change for it's own sake? Surely not! M$ has to give people some reason to buy new licenses. They've run out of innovations, so they've turned to... whatever this is.

  62. don't like it by ILongForDarkness · · Score: 1

    But then again I don't really like Metro. The design changes are consistent with the new UI for the OS IMHO. Capital or "block" letters are boxy like metro tiles. Lack of colour makes the code stand out more which is consistent with the whole content not controls idea of a metro app. That said when I'm looking for a control it damn well be clearly visible which one I want to click on which is what I don't like about the new UI. They added a bit more colour since the beta but still kind of dull.

    A work around could have been to have the colour "pop out" if you are moving the mouse over the toolbars (actual mouse movement not just having the pointer happen to be on a menu).

    1. Re:don't like it by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      But then again I don't really like Metro.

      But it's not Metro.

      The design changes are consistent with the new UI for the OS IMHO. Capital or "block" letters are boxy like metro tiles.

      Metro doesn't actually use caps all that much. I've intentionally poked around on my Win8 install, and very few apps use it in any prominent way. Even when used, it's usually for pane titles, which makes the app look a bit like a newspaper with titles standing out. The Win8 news aggregator app is by far the worst offender at it (though it's kinda explainable there), while others use it much less. Many, like e.g. email app, don't use it at all.

      Also, those apps that use it, tend to make the uppercased text smaller (in terms of raw font size) than adjacent regular text. So it stands out as a different typeface, but does not dominate on size.

    2. Re:don't like it by ILongForDarkness · · Score: 1

      Size: that is my biggest objection. If they use a decent sized font but then make it all caps it makes the menus larger than they need to be taking up screen real estate. Yeah our screens are getting bigger but we always can use more space especially in the vertical direction.

    3. Re:don't like it by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      It doesn't make the menu taller, since all caps is not higher than some caps (FILE and File have the same maximum height). It does make them wider, though. Even more so because caps require wider gaps between items for them to be clearly separate.

      I just don't get the point in the first place. As noted above, it's not really a Metro thing. Metro is about layout inspired by contemporary typography. A top level menu with a toolbar is decidedly not that, no matter how you skin int.

  63. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by NJRoadfan · · Score: 1

    All uppercase menus simply looks amateur. Reminds me of a typical Geocities web page. How many commercial applications (besides Visual Studio) have you seen with all uppercase menus and dialog text....

  64. I'm surprised by kelemvor4 · · Score: 1

    I'm surprised at all of this. While I agree that the mixed case menu looks better, I don't see why this is a big enough deal for someone to write an entire article about. I certainly was surprised that the editors would deem this submission interesting enough to select. I'm even more surprised by the huge interest posters have in it. When I saw the menu, I thought it was not as good as the old one but then immediately said "well, whatever" and moved on with trying out the new visual studio. It didn't really get in my way or anything like that. While I think the mixed case menus are more appealing, the whole time I read the article and the comments here on slashdot the word "nitpicking" kept coming to mind.
    If developers really don't have anything better to worry about, then times as an IT dev are even better than I thought they were.

  65. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I just wanted to say M$ isn't the only one 'solving' problems nobody but a loud-whining-few had.

    We can looks to scores of changes to many OS' and respective UIs, only half of which real people wanted or even needed. Yet simple things we asked for that actually affect our lives seem to never get addressed properly.

    Decades later, we still have the notion that in order to eject a cd, you need to throw it into the trash bin! Regardless of the used-to-be-functional button on the drive itself, which of course is disabled because....."we know better"

    Or, point your finger at ANY linux distro and claim multiple monitors works right, I dare you. But hey, taking UI element control OUT was the way to go there right?!
    Yes Gnome, staring at your collective asses. I won't even go into the other poor attempts some have made.

    What gets me, is the ideas in computing now seem to be as lame as the ideas coming out of Hollywood. "Let's make it all shades of grey, you know so it looks hip!" - who here honestly didn't see that in their heads? These ideas are being fed to us as if they are new, as if they help us somehow, they aren't and they don't, unless of course you are trying to do work on some underpowered toy with no real input options designed for work, speed, ergonomics....shit, anything that drove peripheral improvement over the last 20 years.

    Newest version of FF is an example....now on what used to be a clean start page, I have monstrous buttons for things I almost never use.....all to make some future tablet user happy. Thanks for the awful waste of space guys! Rock on!

    I swear this shit looks like it was developed over at Playskool.

  66. changed in 1965 in the UK after 1958 testing by fantomas · · Score: 5, Interesting

    UK road signs were changed to their current style after testing in 1958, there's a nice summary on the BBC. This new mixed upper and lower case style became legally required on 01 January 1965.

      So yes indeed, typographical designers understood this in the UK quite a while before it was a widely discussed computer interface debate..

    1. Re:changed in 1965 in the UK after 1958 testing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This new mixed upper and lower case style became legally required on 01 January 1965.

      So something like the following: sTOp! ?

  67. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Nah. Ribbon is objectively better than the previous office UI, just look at all the usability studies they did. Watch Jensen Harris's talk about it.

    On the other hand, this is just another fad. People have been capitalising letters in every possible way over time. We had the WordPerfects of the world, we had iPods, we had flickr and finally the obvious next step was to try FILE EDIT VIEW PROJECT BUILD DEBUG TEAM SQL DATA DESIGN FORMAT TOOLS TEST ARCHITECTURE ANALYZE WINDOW HELP.

    I personally believe the problem is that they themselves are so blind to their own UI through oversaturation that they will do anything to make it temporarily noticeable. Give them time and one by one they will suddenly snap out of it and go ugh.

  68. 1999 called. It want's it's trolling back. by Belial6 · · Score: 0

    Are you really trying to use a website that hasn't been updated in over 12 years that reviews a version of software that is 14 years old and 7 major released back as evidence that an application has a bad UI? That on it's own would be stupid. The fact that half the complaints are about Lotus Notes using standard UI features makes the use of that site doubly stupid as an example of how bad the Lotus Notes UI is.

  69. The menu bar cannae take much more it captain! by greg_robson · · Score: 1

    I prefer the mixture of case, but regardless of that argument.... 17 menus? I thought the whole idea of the "The Ribbon" was Microsoft's way to counter the excessive amount of menu items and text heavy nature of reading everything. (I'm not advocating for the Ribbon here! We need as much screen real estate as possible!) Perhaps categorise the menus better and turn some into icons? Window and Help could be shoved over to the right. Then give Architecture and Analyze a toolbar, not a menu bar. I don't imagine everyone will use them frequently (I may be wrong). Perhaps the Data and/or "deployment" options could be put on a side panel. Or who knows, perhaps small icons next to the items, like the "yellow database cylinders" next to data. Dear Microsoft When You Have Lots Of Menu Items Your Eyes Get Tired Reading Every Change Of Case On Small Words You Must Do Better!

    1. Re:The menu bar cannae take much more it captain! by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      thought the whole idea of the "The Ribbon" was Microsoft's way to counter the excessive amount of menu items and text heavy nature of reading everything. (I'm not advocating for the Ribbon here! We need as much screen real estate as possible!) Perhaps categorise the menus better and turn some into icons?

      The idea of the top-level menu in the traditional UI model is that it has every command in the application. Toolbar is not a replacement for menu, but rather a way to expose frequently accessed commands so that they are one click away. Every command that's on the toolbar must also be on the menu.

  70. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

    The other problem is that Apple's UIs really are stylish and attractive. Sure, they cost too much and are basically like electronic prisons, but it's hard to deny that they really know their aesthetics. Microsoft, OTOH, keeps trying to be stylish, but usually ends up failing badly at it, and making something that looks comical or just plain ugly.

  71. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by dunkelfalke · · Score: 2

    Well, they have certainly managed to implement the "fewer blue screens" feature. Can't remember the last time I've seen one. Must be a few years by now.

    --
    "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
  72. Bactrian vs Dromedary camels by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Bactrian vs Dromedary

  73. MS Experience? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From TFA:

    MS Blog: "On the first point, the use of uppercase text is becoming a strong signature element of styling for navigation and headings in Microsoft user interfaces. You can see it in the Azure Portal, in Zune, and in the latest Bing search results update."

    i-programmer: So let's forget usability and keep with the "strong signature element". It doesn't matter that it is harder to read, the brand will be more recognizable in caps."

    A few things I think he forgot to mention is that this isn't true for anything in the MS Office Suite nor is it true for IE.

  74. Re:Visual Studio and Usable? by Mr+Thinly+Sliced · · Score: 1

    (My main environment is Eclipse supplemented with emacs/gcc/autotools).

    The thing with a pure editor / makefile / compiler environment is the lack of refactoring tools.

    For example, with eclipse, I can rename a method / class or add parameters / remove them and the IDE with auto-update all classes I have opened in the workspace with the new signature / name.

    Sure, it's dangerous, but isn't using sed /awk or perl to do the same thing equally dangerous (gotta write a regexp every time...).

    Then there is also the gui for debugging. I can gdb session with the best of them, but remembering the various incantations to walk structures and examine memory is far more time consuming than a few clicky clicks.

    These tools alone are worth it, not to mention not waiting for ctags to rebuild.

  75. Extension to remove ALL CAPS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Extension to remove ALL CAPS is in Visual Studio Gallery: http://visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com/a83505c6-77b3-44a6-b53b-73d77cba84c8
    Some screenshots: http://vscommands.squaredinfinity.com/features#mainmenu-change-letter-case

  76. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by yoshi_mon · · Score: 1

    It is pretty clear to a lot of us that MS has suffered what all other major corporations have, the stratification of their management. When you are told, paid, and treated like you can do no wrong then dammit you can do no wrong.

    Being an independent contractor I can say that when I tell such execs that they are wrong about something I can see their eyes light up with anger. How dare I correct them. But then they realize they can't abuse me like they do their other employees and its a crap shoot as to if they are going to listen to me then. If they don't well I just double my fee and work around it.

    However I much prefer to work at my normal rate and work with people. It not only lets me work better but my work product also tends to be better in such an environment.

    --

    Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
  77. German Language Pack by skyggen · · Score: 2

    I installed the German language pack and now I think visual studio is very angry with me.

  78. Real nerds know ASCII by jabberw0k · · Score: 1

    The long-ago meaning of ^Z (end-of-file on CP/M and Heathkit's HDOS) is nearly lost in the mists of time, but ^H and ^J are still wired into Real Geeks as Backspace and Linefeed... it would be difficult to overwrite those meanings with any other shortcuts.

    1. Re:Real nerds know ASCII by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ^Z is "suspend job" in a unix shell. It works great with "bg".

    2. Re:Real nerds know ASCII by ais523 · · Score: 1

      Control-Z is still end-of-file on DOS, and on the Windows command prompt. (Because Windows is pretending to be DOS, and DOS is pretending to be CP/M, and CP/M used control-Z.)

      --
      (1)DOCOMEFROM!2~.2'~#1WHILE:1<-"'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1"
    3. Re:Real nerds know ASCII by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      Pfft. Every word processor since... ever... has used Ctrl+H for Find/Replace and Ctrl+J for Justify.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    4. Re:Real nerds know ASCII by Henk+Poley · · Score: 1

      *grin* On OS X Ctrl+H is still backspace.

    5. Re:Real nerds know ASCII by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      How old are you exactly? I remember teaching Wordperfect 4.x on DOS 3.x and Ctrl-H is and always will be backspace. I still use it on occasion in command-prompts where delete/backspace is improperly mapped.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
  79. Re:well, after all... by tbannist · · Score: 1

    Actually, it speaks more the success of their illegal and anti-competitive practices than anything else. Microsoft had to prevent the competition from being pre-installed on computers for Windows to succeed. Then they used the monopoly rents from Windows to outspend Word Perfect and Corel. Even then, they also engaged in underhanded sabotage of their competition to ensure their victory.

    Frankly, the Xbox 360 is about the only Microsoft product that I can think of that may have succeeded mostly on it's own merits.

    --
    Fanatically anti-fanatical
  80. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by TheLink · · Score: 2

    Maybe the crappy people moved to their UI division.

    --
  81. Re:well, after all... by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

    You are kidding me right? They've consistently went through and pushed their shit out to us without caring about what we need. Windows 7 has that snap to open full screen windows bullshit. *I FUCKING HATE AND LOATHE IT*

    It was never default in the past 25 of windows. So in Win7, gratuitous change. I know a lot of windows people do not understand the concept of multiple overlapping windows, each showing only the data you need to see, but instead, have to maximize every single window. BUT TO TURN THAT INTO DEFAULT?! WTF?!

    Microsoft has always been about pushing their shit to you (ribbons? *puke* Metro? *double puke*), and if it happened that it was something useful, well, as a user, you were just lucky.

  82. Re:Visual Studio and Usable? by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

    I still say no, what Visual Studio has done is created to many modern day programmers who can't use a terminal and have no efficency. I only focus in C and ASM programming and the last thing I would ever use is Visual Studio, in fact is passes it's C through a C++ compiler which works but it a really really bad idea because it allows weak programming. Eclipse is okay and if you wanted a feature to auto refactor just write it and build it in, That way your editor has all the feature you want and nothing more. There are also many good GUI's to gdb if you want to go that way.

  83. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by TheLink · · Score: 1

    Reminds me of this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUXnJraKM3k

    Note: apparently this video was made by some people in Microsoft. So those bunch might actually have a clue when it comes to taste... But wouldn't that make their work rather painful for them?

    --
  84. Re:well, after all... by the_B0fh · · Score: 2

    Illegal tying of OS to hardware, etc etc (go read how BeOS signed a deal with a laptop manufacturer to offer BeOS as an alternate OS, and how Microsoft forced them to "hide" that option.

    They dominate not because they were good (go read how early Office versions would have access to secret APIs that competitors did not have), but because they pulled a shitload of dirty tricks.

    And then people like you conveniently forget or gloss over those facts.

  85. BATTLESHIP GREY IS BACK BABY!! by TheSkepticalOptimist · · Score: 1

    VS 2012 is the first VS version I will skip because it is an epic fail in UX and UI design on almost every significant level.

    Lets all party like its 1989!!

    --
    I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
  86. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

    oh, how I wish I hadn't commented earlier... i need modpoints! :)

  87. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

    Heh. Did you ever see this? How Microsoft could redesign/reimagine the iPod packaging. Created by Microsoft's own marketing dept.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUXnJraKM3k

  88. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Every Linux distro I've ever used has supported multiple monitors correctly... except when I was using Gnome or KDE. When I use minimal window managers, everything seems to work far better than anything in any other OS I've tried (try getting applications to open on the same screen as your cursor in Windows!), but DEs use wrappers around wrappers around wrappers, all so that they can replicate the features of a few separate 20KiB standalone programs.

    Your point is quite correct however - it is most often the UI development teams who try to impose their own versions of an interface on us and don't let us change them. After all, they are the UI development teams, and we are lowly users.

  89. Re:I'm horrified. by Megane · · Score: 1

    For me, the best example of how crappy the Notes interface is was a time when I had to use it back in the late '90s. I accidentally bumped my hand against the numeric keypad and deleted a local mail archive. The "." key (with Num Lock off because I was still using DOS) did a Delete command on the currently selected icon, and the Enter key next to it confirmed the delete. Also, it didn't just delete the database file containing the mail. First, it overwrote the header to delete all records, and then it deleted the file, rendering an un-erase useless. Thanks, Bloats! Fortunately I didn't really need what was in that file.

    And I had to use Bloats again for a few months in 2008 or so. The UI was generally no more better, except now it had some HTML stuff grafted into it.

    --
    #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  90. Impractical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All-caps means UI elements must be further separated for the eye to distinguish them as being separate.

  91. Re:well, after all... by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1

    Oh listen to the Johnny Trustbuster, Neckbeard esquire. I'm only surprised you didn't use the risible term "convicted monopolist".

    You ignore the fact that they had already been overwhelmingly chosen by users at that point, and in addition they only did that for a very short period of time.

    They are the standard because it was natural that there be one dominant OS due to applications being tied to platform.

    Let's see if they falter in the next decade, because you whiners can't even use that excuse now. You can run all sorts of apps online, or on various platforms so the only reason now to choose Windows is you prefer it.

  92. Re:well, after all... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    And the bitter neckbeard contingent chimes in. It's funny, I can actually _see_ the cheetos grease from your furious, chubby little fingers all over the letters you type.

    How is that possible?

  93. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    maybe if your computer wasn't so shit you wouldn't get so many blue screens. Its also almost always a driver issue so blame the companies you buy from...

  94. Re:VS is horrible by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1

    Either you have literally no idea what you're talking about or you are an incredibly sarcastic person. Take your pick.

  95. Re: horrified by mixmasta · · Score: 1

    Yes, it's basically true, though I've not seen every issue on the page.

    The interface got better over the years, such as on v6, but there are still numerous poorly designed features. Yes I say design, not bugs. For example, the lack of horz scroll bar that has to be enabled in a menu. Someone or multiple someones went out of their way to fuck that up *on purpose.*

    Many of the "features" persist I believe out of spite. The one that bugged me the most was the fact that preferences were spread out over multiple places. To change a setting, you'd have to search all of them.

    --
    #6495ED - cornflower blue
  96. Re:Visual Studio and Usable? by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1

    1995 called, and the System Admins who write scripts in Bash and Perl called. They indicate they want their outdated complaint back.

    This "debate" was settled long ago, in most cases for any serious software you are officially a clueless dinosaur if you don't use an IDE if one is available.

    What's funny is you have no idea how ridiculous you sound to most professional software developers (except crusty old farts writing device drivers and a few other valid exceptions).

  97. Re:Visual Studio and Usable? by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1

    You're doing dinosaur development, and your opinion is invalid for other types of software such as anything written in Java, C#, most script languages, etc...

  98. Everybody complains by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

    The cost of trying to satisfy every need is chaos. That's what Microsoft is. Apple is the opposite and that is why most businesses can't adopt it. It's simply too confined and cost too much. Then you have the Unix, BSD and Linux of this world that are no different than Microsoft in many ways but aren't as popular as an end user OS.

    All this to say I'm sticking to VS2010. :)

  99. Re:VS is horrible by flimflammer · · Score: 1

    Trololo

  100. Re:well, after all... by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

    Well, since you're an anonymous little troll, you're probably just looking in the mirror.

  101. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by NoZart · · Score: 1

    Like not being able to use a second screen while fullscreening an app?

    Sorry, but "usability" for me means to be able to do stuff. Ans not having everything smooth around for up to 3 seconds until i can work with it again.

  102. Re:VS is horrible by Megane · · Score: 1

    WTF did Apple do to XCode's Find/Replace in the past couple of years? That in-window pane thing that steals focus all the time is absolutely horrid! And that flashing color thing on the found text is really distracting, too.

    --
    #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  103. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dear fagget,

    Your example at the end of your post is funny, because you can reduce them. You simply click the word once, and away goes your ribbon bar until you click it again.

    The example you give is like what I have to do when I want to do something benign like compress some files in linux or change my screen resolution. Real fucking usable design you have there.

  104. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 2

    > Mod up! This is absurdly true. Office got a new interface that it didn't need that seems no better (just different) from its last interface
    This is due to their business model. Thet must change things every couple of years (make things slightly incompatible or inconsistent) to drive revenue. If they stopped breaking thins then they lose a lot of money. That is why hey drop their techologies for "teh new shiney" every half-decade. Which means everyone investing in their tech will get shafted and loose a lot of the value of their investment. The old adage, "In order for Microsoft to win the customer must lose" is as true as it ever was.

    This is one reason I'll always prefer Java to C# (plus, only the former is truly portable, and I live on Windows, Mac and Linux at various stages of my day). Java tech changes very conservatively - people see this is as a flaw but it actually means the 17 years of code your have accumulated (that is, invested time and effort in) still works nicely and is still supported by the tool creator.

  105. Re:Visual Studio and Usable? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

    what Visual Studio has done is created to many modern day programmers who can't use a terminal and have no efficency.

    Using a terminal does not equate to efficiency.

    Visual Studio, in fact is passes it's C through a C++ compiler which works but it a really really bad idea because it allows weak programming.

    I have no idea why passing C through a C++ compiler "allows weak programming", given that C++ is generally more strict about things (e.g. it won't implicitly cast void* to any other pointer type).

    But VS doesn't do that, either. If you give it a .c file, it'll compile it as C. In fact, it will compile it as C89, and it's rather anal retentive about it - for example, it won't even allow // comments, or variable declarations in the middle of the block.

  106. Missing why this was done by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Looking at the screenshot, It's obvious why they did this: the idiotic systemwide style of having a plain background with nothing dividing the menu line from the toolbar and other lines. They wanted to separate the menus from the surrounding elements, but all they had to work with was font properties.

    I think Windows 8 will set a new record for the number of UI guidelines violated.

  107. Re:VS is horrible by logical_failure · · Score: 1

    Every version of XCode has been awful.. and it's actually getting worse, not better. XCode 3 would let you quickly reorder your source files alphabetically, XCode 4 - well, it's possible, but it's a pain in the ass.

    Like everything else in XCode. A giant pain in the ass.

    --
    Sock Puppets: damn_registrars=pudge_confirmer=jimmy_slimmy=raiigunner=cml4524=a_klavan=red4men=ronpaulisanidiot
  108. Re:well, after all... by RulerOf · · Score: 1

    "Regardless of one's feelings on Microsoft, that company has consistently and continually tried to make their user interfaces as attractive and easy to use as is possible."

    Are you talking about the same Microsoft I know?

    Oh, right, they're "trying".

    Lest ye not be too quick to judge, that mayest thou consider: a physician engages in the art of "practice!"

    --
    Boot Windows, Linux, and ESX over the network for free.
  109. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by UnderCoverPenguin · · Score: 1

    Decades later, we still have the notion that in order to eject a cd, you need to throw it into the trash bin! Regardless of the used-to-be-functional button on the drive itself, which of course is disabled because....."we know better"

    The eject button on my CD/DVD drive works. Of course, if a file that is on the CD/DVD is open, ejecting is inhibited.

    --
    Don't try to out wierd me, three-eyes. I get stranger things than you, free with my breakfast cereal. --Zaphod Beeblebr
  110. Re:well, after all... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah.. "secret APIs" made office popular.. lol. You must be the most retarded person if you truly believe that. THough.. being an anti-ms troll, you should already have unlocked that achievement.

    In this thing called the real world people made a choice in buying MS over their competitors because it was better. The secret APIs are irrelevant (of which you know nothing). Ofcource the butthurt losers are going to try to spread some FUD. Also that BeOS thing.. man.. how truly pitiful and irrelevant of an example could you pick. BeOS was dead in the water thats why they were giving it away for free in 1999 after spending all that money developing it (Yes.. it was meant to be a commercial closed source OS, not an OSS project). Nobody was ever going to write drivers for that OS. Nothing would have changed.

    but because they pulled a shitload of dirty tricks.

    by "shitload" you mean 5 or 10. Nobody can get to hundreds of millions of customers just by using "dirty tricks". The sooner you acknowledge your ridiculous over the top emphasis on common business oriented greedy decisions that every single corporation makes, the faster you'll understand reality.

    Coke giving a store a discount if they only stock coke products.. Jesus ! Thats so over the top and ridiculous !

  111. Margaret Calvert by opentunings · · Score: 1

    God bless all the nerds working on Wikipedia! Her name's Margaret Calvert and she has her own page, although they don't mention the uppercase / lowercase discussions. But yes, she talked on Top Gear about shape recognition and uc/lc issues.

  112. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by TemporalBeing · · Score: 1

    Previously barring a lot of eye candy that could be turned off , MS did generally get their UI about right. Now with spillover effect from Win8 they seem to have completely lost the plot and this is simply an example of them reloading the gun once more to take aim at whatever is left of their feet.

    It's not so much spillover from Win8 as the Ribbon UI and their general direction for UI design. It's all bad, and not in the bad ass kind of way - just plain bad.

    --
    Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
  113. Meanwhile... by drewco · · Score: 0

    It was annoying for about 5 seconds, then I realized that I almost never look at the menu. Meanwhile I can do work instead of whining about stuff that doesn't matter. Oh yeah, and you can turn it off.

  114. Ballmer's Influence by guttentag · · Score: 2

    Ballmer's communication style (mostly screaming until you are hoarse and jumping around to get attention) is finally starting to assert itself in Microsoft's UI. Expect the next version to include characters that turn red and jump around, chanting when you mouseover them and screaming "GIVE IT UP FOR ME" when you click them:

    FILE!
    FILE!
    FILE!
    EDIT!
    EDIT!
    COPY!
    YEAH! GIVE IT UP FOR ME!!!!

    (Then you wait several seconds for your operating system to catch its breath.)

    I for one am thankful that I know keyboard shortcuts.

  115. Fixed already ... by CatsCradle · · Score: 1

    Everything mentioned in the article was a problem (if you can call it that) in the beta but has already been changed in the Release Candidate. They listened to the criticisms and fixed it before the product shipped, what is the problem exactly?

    --
    --- CatsCradle
    1. Re:Fixed already ... by ausrob · · Score: 1

      No it hasn't - the ALL CAPS menus are in the Release Candidate. The menu setting can be overrided with a registry setting though.

  116. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by fredprado · · Score: 1

    Which is how it should work, just backward. If a file is opened and you ask the system to eject the media the file should be forcibly closed and the media should be ejected, after at most a confirmation (preferably one that can be switched off by default).

  117. Re:well, after all... by mcgrew · · Score: 1

    Regardless of one's feelings on Microsoft, that company has consistently and continually tried to make their user interfaces as attractive and easy to use as is possible.

    Attractive? Yes. Windows is the prettiest desktop out there. Useable? Hardly. Changing where the damned menu items are in every release is NOT useable. Having mouse setting other than in the control panel is not useable. Windows only seems useable to those who haven't used anything else.

    They've gone through the effort to develop fonts, to determine how to add pseudo-3d effects, how to space things and how to define icons and sizes.

    None of those things add to useability. Pretty? Yes. Useable? Hell no.

  118. damn designers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1) the site has the title in all caps. meaning his site should stop yelling at people

    2) he complains all caps means you can see when the next menu item starts. ignoring the fact the menu items are just one word, and that there is a space between them

    3) if they left visual studio alone, they'd complain that it's not consistent with the rest of the microsoft experience

  119. peter hu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow this is an amazing software Windows 8 is fantastic.

    I haven't been this excited about an operating system .

    the start screen has really grown on me. I have to admit that my initial reaction almost a year back was a bit "meh"

    but now can be wonderful and As much as I like it on the desktop, I can't wait to use it on a tablet, as I know it'll be even better there.

    so can everyone not hate this amazing software and work harder to understand and love a new things!

  120. Re:VS is horrible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No shit. I use Gamemaker. A FUCK LOT better than emacs. Which is better than vi any day.

  121. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by Darinbob · · Score: 2

    Visual Studio and before that, Visual Basic and Visual C++ always had really lousy interfaces. When I first used VB I wrote exactly the same program in Delphi, and Delphi was easy to learn and pickup while VB was a constant struggle due to the design. Ie, put all of the hundred or so properties into a menu, sorted alphabetically, so that you use maximum mouse movement to set the 3 properties that you need. It was almost as if the UI for Visual Basic was designed by the typical Visual Basic user. Now I'm not a GUI developer at all, but even I can tell when something is messed up in the UI.

  122. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Instead, you should have to point to an invisible, 2-pixel-wide area of the lower-left corner of the window ...

    Just make sure it has a decent margin. If you put it all the way in the corner people might move the mouse there by accident.

  123. Re:Visual Studio and Usable? by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

    I can sounds ridiculous, doesn't matter to me. I don't need an IDE to do my development, I've writen an entire control systtem using Vim and Gcc and that was it, it was a massive code project for the college I'm at. ( Massive on the order of 100 000 lines of code )

  124. Re:Visual Studio and Usable? by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

    How is C and ASM dinosaur development? C is still one of the most widely used developmentt languages.

  125. Re:Visual Studio and Usable? by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

    You might be right, how ever the last time I tried that ( last week ) it would not let me use a .c extention or provide C standard flags.

  126. Re:Visual Studio and Usable? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

    how ever the last time I tried that ( last week ) it would not let me use a .c extention

    How would a compiler prevent you from using a .c extension?

    Or do you rather mean the IDE? I believe it doesn't have a .c file template in the Add New File project dialog, but you can add a .cpp (or a .txt) file and rename it.

    or provide C standard flags.

    What's a "C standard flag"?

  127. Re:Visual Studio and Usable? by Mr+Thinly+Sliced · · Score: 1

    _Shrug_.

    To each his own. I know I personally am more productive using the IDE and not doing the boring repetitive refactoring by hand (renaming files, recompile, oops, missed one).

    I have my eclipse C++ environment setup so that on file save of the .cpp files, eclipse simply calls "make -j 3" and I get nice coloured syntax highlighted problems I can click on to get to the file.

    I get all the goodness of clear, documented build (autotools), with the benefits of modern code refactoring and syntax/error highlighting.

    Debugging shows similar gains.

    Doing these things by hand in emacs (which I do still do for performance critical parts needing SSE) is much more time consuming.

    Work smarter, not harder .-)

  128. American or English? by gratuitous_arp · · Score: 2

    If you wanted to put structure into a menu, well how about color? Oh wait, I forgot the design department dumped color in favour of the 'everything-is-grey UI.'

    How do you determine if this writer was American or English? (Pause) -- That's correct, it's time for a horse race!

    If you wanted to put structure into a menu, well how about color?

    They're out of the gates, and "American Author" sprints into an early lead!

    American: 1
    English: 0

    Oh wait, I forgot the design department dumped color

    Ah, an obstruction in the track! "English Expositor" got its hoof stuck on a sodding large crumpet and is now clomping along alone like a Billy No-Mates! With such a slowdown, it may never catch up, just like the train schedule!

    American: 2
    English: 0

    in favour of the

    But wait, "American Author" has smelled the crumpet and is circling back to investigate! It looks like the rider is shouting to "American Author" at the top of his lungs that its going the wrong way, but he refuses to use his riding crop or otherwise take action to correct the problem.

    Now "European Expositor" is gaining ground fast! A more in-depth genealogy analysis may very well reveal that Bob is, in fact, his uncle!

    American: 2
    English: 1

    'everything-is-grey UI'

    "European Expositor" has shaken off its handicap and they're on the home stretch! They're neck and neck across the finish line -- it's a tie!

    American: 2
    English: 2

    To finish the story, the riders then dismounted and decided to play a tiebreaker match of football. It ended in another tie, one team scoring two touchdowns and the other netting twelve goals.

  129. Re:Visual Studio and Usable? by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

    C standard flag as in -c89, -c99, c11 or what ever the compiler wants. I tried renaming it once and Visual Studio was pissed. I've never had luck using it so I gave up, everytime I try to use it there is some issue in the way and it's not worth my time or engery to change.

  130. Re:Visual Studio and Usable? by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

    Hey if it works it works :-) Some people can fly in terminal faster then a GUI, others can't. If your comfy using it then it's all up to you.

  131. Re:Visual Studio and Usable? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

    C standard flag as in -c89, -c99, c11 or what ever the compiler wants.

    There's no standard form of these flags, so every compiler does their own thing. If you try to pass --std=c99 or something like that to VC, it will certainly be surprised.

    Anyway, for C, it doesn't have any such flags because it only supports the original ANSI C89 / ISO C90. It does not support C99 or C11.

  132. Exactly what I and others have been saying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wrote about this on my blog.

    http://blog.thecognizantcoder.com/2012/05/visual-studio-11-colors-we-dont-need-no.html

    It's a shame MS doesn't seem to care.

  133. Structure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, I find it adds some...STRUCTURE

  134. Patents by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    It's really because Orapple* patented lower-case

    * They merged

  135. Re:Visual Studio and Usable? by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

    I know they have different forms, I actually didn't know Visual Studio didn't support 99 or 11 but thats not a good thing so thats now another reason I don't see it's value. In either case to each there own.

  136. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by mattack2 · · Score: 1

    Decades later, we still have the notion that in order to eject a cd, you need to throw it into the trash bin!

    The trash in the Dock turns into the international eject symbol when you start dragging something ejectable, on OS X. I'm not sure exactly when that started, at least a release or two ago.

    (Decade_s_? I'd say you're at least 1.5 years too early... but I'm nitpicking here.)

  137. Re:well, after all... by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

    Yes, they did that crap to preserve their dominance not to aquire it. I've heard it's very difficult to abuse a monopoly if you don't have one.

    --
    And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  138. So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No really. So? Freaking nerds.

  139. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A Microsoft employee whom you have probably heard of if you're a Windows developer (hint: he has a well known blog) admitted to me in person that Microsoft does exactly that: changes UI simply for the sake of changing it. The idea being that if it doesn't look different, people won't think it has actually changed. He was also surprised when I told him that people #*@%ing loathe Clippy, so It's probably also fair to say that the Microsoft campus forms a sort of shield-bubble protecting it from the awkward realities evident on the outside.

    I haven't spoken to him in many years, but I suspect there are additional forces at work on this today, specifically their attempt to look trendy as Apple (and no, just because Apple screws up an otherwise pleasant interface doesn't mean it's good). I suspect, but cannot prove, that in many cases very smart people at Microsoft (Microsoft does have a lot of very smart people) recognize that certain UI changes are impediments to usability, but choose to follow through with them because: a) they don't care very much; b) think that their steps backwards don't cause enough damage to wipe out the positive buzz from clueless tech writers who don't have to use this shit, and the trendy young hipsters who don't know any better, both of whom they're desperately trying to appeal to; c) they've convinced themselves that it's actually an improvement on the basis of Microsoft groupthink, a force that should never be underestimated; and d) they recognize that Microsoft is not trendy and hip, that Microsoft is the big dumb corporate dinosaur that you have to put up with if you don't work in a retro-modern downtown Seattle loft, and haven't realized that trying to make their software look all trendy and hip results in something akin to your aunt Edsel trying to use slang, or your boss getting a Justin Bieber haircut -- never mind the usability catastrophe.

  140. camelCase vs. PascalCase by twebb72 · · Score: 1

    Wait a minute... Isn't 'CamelCase', really "camelCase" as in the hump is in the middle (with the first word always lowercase)? I was taught that what the author is describing is 'Pascal Case' -- where each word begins with a cap.

  141. Re:VS is horrible by drkstr1 · · Score: 1

    I really like Eclipse, it's my favorite IDE in fact, but VS is hardly the worst. Ever use XCode? I always have a good chuckle when I see the fanboys scramble to defend that monstrosity.

    --
    Fanboy Status: Apache Flex, C#, Eclipse, KDE, Pirate Party, Ron Paul, Slackware, Windows 7
  142. What a joke! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A linux-advocacy site like slashdot criticizing others over "usability" is ironic and amusing.

  143. Consistent my foot! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From the article "You can see it in the Azure Portal, in Zune, and in the latest Bing search results update." ... which is all well and good (sort of). I'm not going to be using Azure or Zune any time soon but I just checked out Bing and they only use the all-caps 'style' in the left hand vertical bar (where, admittedly it does provide some structure), but along the horizontal menu they are still using mixed case!!! Seriously, go 'Bing' something (I hate myself for recommending that) and checkout how inconsistent their consistency is.

  144. Keyboard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Could this be because the keyboards are also in ALL CAPS?

  145. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by chrismcb · · Score: 1

    The other problem is that Apple's UIs really are stylish and attractive. Sure, they cost too much and are basically like electronic prisons, but it's hard to deny that they really know their aesthetics.

    Maybe in hardware... but not in software. The Mac's software is not stylish and attractive, and I find it difficult to use sometimes.

  146. Re:1999 called. It want's it's trolling back. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you need a tampon? Its obviously that time of the month and you act like you just ruined your new khakis.

  147. Re:well, after all... by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

    Microsoft paid a pretty penny for this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/11/05/how_ms_played_the_incompatibility/

    yet, because of this, they captured the DOS market.

  148. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Search: Agent Ransack
    Replacement for Word: Libre Office Write still has proper menus

    Hey! MS!! Get with it! It's 2400 years since hieroglyphics got replaced with letters.

  149. Why didn't they use Reverse Polish Notation? by jacampos · · Score: 1

    dlgOpen, because I don't know to what type of UI element the menu option is bound.

  150. Welcome To The Future Past by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Leave it to Microsoft to continue to try to move its users back toward an archaic interface.

  151. They want to retain the Copyright! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's all about Copyright. As you can copyright the structure and order of an API, but it needs to be unique and new. ALL CAPS MENU, that is new!

  152. caps by YaddaMinski · · Score: 1

    When ever I see someone using ALL CAPS in csr apps, I know we are not dealing with the brightest bulbs. There are very good reasons for punctuation let's innovate and use all lower case!

  153. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by jimbrooking · · Score: 1

    That was Bill Gates' avowed corporate strategy. I remember reading about a Gates interview in a 1990-something issue of Computerworld (I looked for the article but couldn't find it online) in which he said words to the effect that "I can't think of a worse reason to release new software than to fix bugs. People want features, not bug fixes." I was stunned by this (trying to run a 120-person IT shop on Win95) and reading it, I came to understand why MS products are always buggy and always different. "This changes everything" was corporate policy! It always seemed intuitively obvious that if a UI is a little messed up, you tweak and tune it. You don't toss it out and start afresh, thus pulling the rug out from under your installed base.

  154. Knowledge dies with MS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Features" like this from MS give arrogance a bad name.

  155. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

    1997 called. It wants its complaint about Microsoft back.

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    You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
  156. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

    I have to say that I never thought I'd be applying the phrase "angry fruit salad" to a Microsoft UI, but Windows Phone/Metro is exactly that.

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    You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
  157. Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode by randyleepublic · · Score: 1

    UI Churn.

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    Social Credit would solve everything...