You know I was going to mod in this thread until I hit your comment. Thank you a thousand times for the Tweedledee quip I am going to get miles of use out of that one between now and the election.
Um No? A Democracy is 51% or more can change everything. A Republic has a core of laws that are not changeable by simple majority vote. I realize that people are using the two interchangeably (out of ignorance or perhaps trying to move the Overton window) but they are NOT the same. True Democracy is a very short lived and violent form of government. In history Republics tend to be stable forms of government. At the moment the US is a representive republic I am aware some people ignorant of what they are asking for have been clamoring for a true democracy. I very much hope they never get their way. More details can be found here. http://lexrex.com/enlightened/AmericanIdeal/aspects/demrep.html
"the market does not take care of itself repeat: the market does NOT take care of itself"
Wrong, full stop. A free market will indeed take care of itself. We don't have a free market so no it won't take care of itself. It seems you are a fan of government involvement. But to equate our current market to a free market is ignorance or plain dishonesty.
"How much energy does it take to mine, refine, enrich, build a plant....."
Oh boy here we go again with the I am going to make up every thing I can think of/was told to add on to the costs to make it seem as unreasonable as possible. Lets face it I can turn that argument on anything. Lets say...oh solar power. The panels have to be replaced way more then nuclear power plants. And you need hundreds of them to even make up for a fraction of the power of a plant.
I get that you don't like nuclear power. Just say it and be done with it instead of making up some BS stats or suggesting that ONLY nuclear power should have to take care of its by products for ever and ever amen......
Nuclear power can provide nearly limitless energy and if plants are modernized instead of ignored they may indeed be the safest least polluting form of energy out there.
Meh you think radioactive waste is bad? Now arsenic THAT is forever
"ASCII games on an IBM PC.. I believe the original Compaq "Portable", which my dad used to bring home from work occasionally. Can I preemptively tell anyone thinking of writing a post that contains the name "Playstation" to just not do it? Please? I'm feeling old enough today..."
Heh ok how about an Atari 800? Star Frontiers if I remember correctly.
What do they do when a small business owner says, "I use strictly Linux on my computers, no, you can't come in and look around, go pound sand.
Sigh well they have no legal authority to search your business. They came to town and pounded on the door of the ISP I was managing the network for. The conversation went something like this. We are from the BSA and we would like to inspect your softwa.....(SLAM) Knock knock knock Re open the door see who it is (SLAM) End of story they stood out in the hall and called the owner. Who heard what I did and about fell over laughing. Eventually I went out side and told them we were a closed *nix shop. And we did not agree to any audits and that I knew full well that they have no legal authority. They left. I can't for the life of me think of why companies sign up for site licensing. Then you agree to software audits when ever they want to have one. Even more I can't understand Net Admins that allow them the time of day. Audits like that are expensive for your company why would you volunteer for one
You guys are so fucked. No oversight, no probable cause. Land of the free eh? Good luck with that.
Parent WAS NOT a Troll. Jesus H Christ on a stick, It is sadly a fact. Honestly if we can't admit there is a problem we can't fix it. We need electric feed back to mods.
"Is it necessarily right or good to allow unlimited usage of a limited resource(cell spectrum bandwidth)?"
When the company in question is advertising "Unlimited" then yes it is and it should be required. People are expecting what they were promised nothing more nothing less. If they can't live up to the claims whose fault is that? They are falsely advertising their TOS so I don't care what the hard core economics of it are. What is the deal now a days with people and companies expecting to be let out of a deal when they give your word....? They are trying to oversell just like AOL and should be treated the same way.
"I think that before any new nuclear facility is licensed, its operators should be required to pay in advance for the disposal of its spent fuel. I don't think it's right that the cost should be borne by the taxpayer."
Ok I tell you what I will happily support that under the following conditions. You, no matter how your power is generated, pay the rate of solar power for your electricity. You are required to pay for the environmental impact survey of all outdoor activities of yours. No matter what they are.
And lastly that a bill permanently permitting breeder reactors is passed in congress. Because with them there is no waste. Read that last line until it sinks in.
I didn't see any torture. I saw someone who KNEW what he was doing going to great lengths to make sure he screamed like a school girl at exactly the moment needed to maximize the theatrics. A hit with a taser isn't torture."
Ok defined as Torture is the infliction of severe physical or psychological pain as an expression of cruelty, a means of intimidation, deterrent or punishment, or as a tool for the extraction of information or confessions. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture
Read that until it sinks in.
"stab gear is light weight and worn under the shirt so you can not see it Which does nothing for your arms, groin, face, or legs. As you obviously know. "
Again wrong there are panels, underclothes really that cover the groin and legs and arms. The face/shrug nothing besides a helmet but for what ever little difference it makes it is out there. But what is your face doing near a subs pockets anyway? Ewwwww....
"You're confusing this kid's deliberately putting himself into that scenario and launching the physical part of the conflict with someone ELSE looking for some chance to inflict pain."
No you are over dramatizing the kids actions in order to justify unnecessary force on some spoiled brat. Categorically he never took a swing at anyone. The absolute only thing you can pin on him is that he was non compliant. That and he was being an ass to the senator. However in this day and age being an ass is NOT justification for getting hit with a Tazer even once. (Good thing for me.) AND non violent non compliance is not either!!!! They had no reason to fear anything from him when he got hit by the Tazer. It was punishment pure and simple. Now go up and read that first part again.
Look boil away the bull shit and you come down two it took SIX cops and a Tazer to stop ONE spoiled little collage kid. The degree of violence was way out of proportion with the situation. And was way higher then was necessary.
"Sadism: BS, and you know it" No seriously here I mean it. There actions fit the definition or torture above and *I* feel that only a Sadist would torture someone. Really that's it on that one.
"I HAVE watched someone get a bad guy's dislodged, hidden belt knife rammed right into their thigh, followed by some life-threatening bleeding in the middle of the fight" Yeah it sucks but you know what? THEY AGREED TO IT WHEN THEY SIGNED UP AT THE DOOR. No one told them it would be love and crackers. It is a tough dirty thankless job. But like the military they knew what they were getting into when they took the job. This kid was a pushover and once you had him down he is out the door. They went too far and I hope they get busted,
"How about this: they wear their current uniforms, which are far less intimidating and provocative, and they use a quick, non-lethal technology (as they did) when someone after many repeated instructions to stop kicking and fighting just needs to be reset for a few minutes so they can get their act together"
Right since when did torture,embarrassingly incompetent behavior , sadism and inability to control some little collage kid become the standards out there? I would weep if you were an example of law enforcement.
"Next thing you'll be recommending is that they just wear Star Wars Stormtrooper outfits so that they have no risk of behing hurt while subduing someone who wants a fight in front of a crowd"
Um no first you were the one using a ridiculous example seconded stab gear is light weight and worn under the shirt so you can not see it. Third and most importantly if you can not control one thin light weight collage student with out all the drama of that clip you have no business being a cop.
"I don't know why you think that restraining someone who would rather fight than be walked off isn't full of all sorts of risks to everyone invovled - I can only assume you've never had to do it)."
Oh boy ok how about this? He was not fighting. End of story. He was being non compliant. He never once raised a had to the officers. You want to know how *I* would of handled it? With just me for starters. I would have put one of the kids arms behind his back grabbed a handful of hair with the other and we would have be out of there. Thats it no need to torture some little kid that was sheltered from reality to much when he was growing up. At the most I would have ruffled his dignity a little. And when we got outside with out the 15mn drama that hits the news the next day. No need for all your ridiculous what ifs or maybes. You grab him and walk him out the door. Hell bouncers in most bars would have done a better job then those clowns did.
Oh and for the reccord I have made 63 felony arrests. How many do you have?
"With someone who physically fights them, they physically restrain or subdue them. Absent things like tasers, that comes down to much less politically correct methods sometimes. And that results in everything from bruises to dislocated shoulders, and worse. "
Ok to keep this on topic I have seen the entire video and it was SIX on one. ONE skinny little collage student. Is he a jerk? Sure did he need an attitude correction? Maybe. But if SIX cops can not control one collage student THAT THEY ALLREADY HAVE PINNED ON THE GROUND they don't deserve to be cops. ONE could sit on each limb and renender him helpless. Yet they still needed to tazer him to get the cuffs on? Bunch of sadists.
"you're a cop, and perhaps you don't actually WANT to have to have a wrestling match with someone who might have an unsheathed knife in their pocket, or who might have open wounds, or who might be shockingly strong, etc." Hi welcome to the job. If you don't like it get a different one. And as far as the specious argument about having a wrestling match with someone with an open knife in their pocket. Police have had available to them for a long time things like stab proof vests and gloves.
"The student deserved to get zapped. He went in with the intention of causing a scene and being the center of attention. Mission accomplished."
Oh this is good so every time you annoy me I can hit you with a Tazer? Look I understand that the kid was being a shit. And that he was grandstanding with Kerry. But Tazers are NOT a joke. I have used them on someone legally and lawfully. Once several times. It is never a joke. The pain they feel is real. And I really hope you never have to find out the hard way. Tazering is not spanking for adults. And I feel that cops tend to use it as a spanking. I also believe that kind of cop should be forced to follow behind mounted units with a broom for the rest of their time on the police force.
"WTF, your rights by the Constitution are restrictions on government, not on private entities. You can sign all your rights away except your life or liberty (slavery for instance)."
This probably depends on the country you are in BUT in the US this is incorrect. See the usury laws for a convent example. You can not sign away rights that are yours. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury
You can not sign away your right to vote as another example.
1. The content producers (TV networks) decide what they want to put on and tell the cable companies that it is a take it or leave it deal. If the cable companies puts up a fight they put a scroll in that says Your cable company does not want this channel call them to change their minds on the highest rated shows. They try to force high cost programming in to the lower tiers so everyone that has those tiers has to pay for it. The golf channel did this just before the US Open. It did not work. They are on a high tier package. 2. The cable provider will calculate what the cost to maintain the connection (and some profit and that will be broken out on your bill. Then each channel will be listed. 3. The number of channels will go down. Right now some networks run lower cost channels in the higher tier and subsidize it with a more popular channel. With out that subsidy there would never have been a History Channel for example. 4. The content providers will not let this go through, not the cable companies.
And how many would have to disappear before someone wondered where their blogger went to?
You know THAT is one of the best questions I have ever heard. And I don't think it could a number of people but rather how well know a blogger was that would start it.
So you know for a fact that 0 people are in gitmo for this, or in CIA secret prisons, or have been exported for torture for any of these actions? Oh, right they won't tell us who is in these places so we really don't know. They could disappear people for this stuff and we would never know.
Ok take off the tinfoil The difference is you are guessing. Second it is a known fact that people get imprisoned in China for speaking out about the government in a perceived incorrect manner. After all you are still posting right? They did not come get you now did they?
And this is different from anywhere else how? Don't forget about the US government's electronic spying... At least China has the balls to tell it's people it's watching them...
Right and how many blogers are imprisoned because they don't like the government in the US? How many people that visit the democratic underground are getting arrested for posting there? Yeah really good comparison there..... Also taking steps to make sure that the governments "electronic spying" does not catch you is trivial at best.
"OH BUT THE NUCLEAR WASTE" you say. Who cares? Store it for 15-25 years, by then we will have cheap ion propulsion engines (running off nuclear power), to cleanly jettison the waste into mercury or the sun.
OR you could use a breeder reactor and just use two loads of reactor fuel. One running the reactor and the other charging up in a breeder reactor. Much less risk then now were we ship it all over the country.
According to my calender yes it is. It will be interesting to see. That is for sure. Think I am going to make it a point to be on the side of the planet it will be facing. Fun to see it up close and personal, so to speak.
Slashdot Mirror
You know I was going to mod in this thread until I hit your comment. Thank you a thousand times for the Tweedledee quip I am going to get miles of use out of that one between now and the election.
Um No?
A Democracy is 51% or more can change everything.
A Republic has a core of laws that are not changeable by simple majority vote.
I realize that people are using the two interchangeably (out of ignorance or perhaps trying to move the Overton window) but they are NOT the same. True Democracy is a very short lived and violent form of government. In history Republics tend to be stable forms of government.
At the moment the US is a representive republic I am aware some people ignorant of what they are asking for have been clamoring for a true democracy. I very much hope they never get their way.
More details can be found here.
http://lexrex.com/enlightened/AmericanIdeal/aspects/demrep.html
"the market does not take care of itself
repeat: the market does NOT take care of itself"
Wrong, full stop. A free market will indeed take care of itself. We don't have a free market so no it won't take care of itself. It seems you are a fan of government involvement. But to equate our current market to a free market is ignorance or plain dishonesty.
"How much energy does it take to mine, refine, enrich, build a plant....."
Oh boy here we go again with the I am going to make up every thing I can think of/was told to add on to the costs to make it seem as unreasonable as possible. Lets face it I can turn that argument on anything. Lets say...oh solar power. The panels have to be replaced way more then nuclear power plants. And you need hundreds of them to even make up for a fraction of the power of a plant.
I get that you don't like nuclear power. Just say it and be done with it instead of making up some BS stats or suggesting that ONLY nuclear power should have to take care of its by products for ever and ever amen......
Nuclear power can provide nearly limitless energy and if plants are modernized instead of ignored they may indeed be the safest least polluting form of energy out there.
Meh you think radioactive waste is bad? Now arsenic THAT is forever
"Remember, the actual brain is located in the stomach. That thing in your head is just waste and is to be disgarded!"
For many of us men it seems that you are about 12inches too high...
"Of course. I always value the scientific opinion of the founder of The Weather Channel over the consensus of hundreds of climate scientists."
Except of cource when a equal consensus of hundreds of climate scientists is saying the first ones are wrong.
And *both* sides have been willing to resort to buying PHDs at the price of 10K a pop.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/feb/02/frontpagenews.climatechange
"ASCII games on an IBM PC.. I believe the original Compaq "Portable", which my dad used to bring home from work occasionally.
Can I preemptively tell anyone thinking of writing a post that contains the name "Playstation" to just not do it? Please? I'm feeling old enough today..."
Heh ok how about an Atari 800?
Star Frontiers if I remember correctly.
What do they do when a small business owner says, "I use strictly Linux on my computers, no, you can't come in and look around, go pound sand.
Sigh well they have no legal authority to search your business.
They came to town and pounded on the door of the ISP I was managing the network for.
The conversation went something like this.
We are from the BSA and we would like to inspect your softwa.....(SLAM)
Knock knock knock
Re open the door see who it is (SLAM)
End of story they stood out in the hall and called the owner.
Who heard what I did and about fell over laughing.
Eventually I went out side and told them we were a closed *nix shop. And we did not agree to any audits and that I knew full well that they have no legal authority.
They left. I can't for the life of me think of why companies sign up for site licensing.
Then you agree to software audits when ever they want to have one.
Even more I can't understand Net Admins that allow them the time of day.
Audits like that are expensive for your company why would you volunteer for one
You guys are so fucked. No oversight, no probable cause. Land of the free eh? Good luck with that.
Parent WAS NOT a Troll.
Jesus H Christ on a stick, It is sadly a fact. Honestly if we can't admit there is a problem we can't fix it. We need electric feed back to mods.
LET. IT. DIE. BONES.
DUH! The Church of Scientology has been saying this for years now, people! Get with the times!
(Score:-1, Troll)
All right who gave mod points to a bivalve?
(And yes I am sure everyone else would have found that funny.)
"Is it necessarily right or good to allow unlimited usage of a limited resource(cell spectrum bandwidth)?"
When the company in question is advertising "Unlimited" then yes it is and it should be required.
People are expecting what they were promised nothing more nothing less.
If they can't live up to the claims whose fault is that?
They are falsely advertising their TOS so I don't care what the hard core economics of it are.
What is the deal now a days with people and companies expecting to be let out of a deal when they give your word....? They are trying to oversell just like AOL and should be treated the same way.
"I think that before any new nuclear facility is licensed, its operators should be required to pay in advance for the disposal of its spent fuel. I don't think it's right that the cost should be borne by the taxpayer."
Ok I tell you what I will happily support that under the following conditions.
You, no matter how your power is generated, pay the rate of solar power for your electricity.
You are required to pay for the environmental impact survey of all outdoor activities of yours. No matter what they are.
And lastly that a bill permanently permitting breeder reactors is passed in congress. Because with them there is no waste. Read that last line until it sinks in.
"torture
/shrug nothing besides a helmet but for what ever little difference it makes it is out there. But what is your face doing near a subs pockets anyway? Ewwwww....
I didn't see any torture. I saw someone who KNEW what he was doing going to great lengths to make sure he screamed like a school girl at exactly the moment needed to maximize the theatrics. A hit with a taser isn't torture."
Ok defined as
Torture is the infliction of severe physical or psychological pain as an expression of cruelty, a means of intimidation, deterrent or punishment, or as a tool for the extraction of information or confessions.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture
Read that until it sinks in.
"stab gear is light weight and worn under the shirt so you can not see it
Which does nothing for your arms, groin, face, or legs. As you obviously know. "
Again wrong there are panels, underclothes really that cover the groin and legs and arms.
The face
"You're confusing this kid's deliberately putting himself into that scenario and launching the physical part of the conflict with someone ELSE looking for some chance to inflict pain."
No you are over dramatizing the kids actions in order to justify unnecessary force on some spoiled brat.
Categorically he never took a swing at anyone. The absolute only thing you can pin on him is that he was non compliant. That and he was being an ass to the senator. However in this day and age being an ass is NOT justification for getting hit with a Tazer even once. (Good thing for me.)
AND non violent non compliance is not either!!!! They had no reason to fear anything from him when he got hit by the Tazer. It was punishment pure and simple. Now go up and read that first part again.
Look boil away the bull shit and you come down two it took SIX cops and a Tazer to stop ONE spoiled little collage kid. The degree of violence was way out of proportion with the situation. And was way higher then was necessary.
"Sadism: BS, and you know it"
No seriously here I mean it. There actions fit the definition or torture above and *I* feel that only a Sadist would torture someone. Really that's it on that one.
"I HAVE watched someone get a bad guy's dislodged, hidden belt knife rammed right into their thigh, followed by some life-threatening bleeding in the middle of the fight"
Yeah it sucks but you know what? THEY AGREED TO IT WHEN THEY SIGNED UP AT THE DOOR. No one told them it would be love and crackers. It is a tough dirty thankless job. But like the military they knew what they were getting into when they took the job. This kid was a pushover and once you had him down he is out the door.
They went too far and I hope they get busted,
"How about this: they wear their current uniforms, which are far less intimidating and provocative, and they use a quick, non-lethal technology (as they did) when someone after many repeated instructions to stop kicking and fighting just needs to be reset for a few minutes so they can get their act together"
,embarrassingly incompetent behavior , sadism and inability to control some little collage kid become the standards out there?
Right since when did torture
I would weep if you were an example of law enforcement.
"Next thing you'll be recommending is that they just wear Star Wars Stormtrooper outfits so that they have no risk of behing hurt while subduing someone who wants a fight in front of a crowd"
Um no first you were the one using a ridiculous example seconded stab gear is light weight and worn under the shirt so you can not see it. Third and most importantly if you can not control one thin light weight collage student with out all the drama of that clip you have no business being a cop.
"I don't know why you think that restraining someone who would rather fight than be walked off isn't full of all sorts of risks to everyone invovled - I can only assume you've never had to do it)."
Oh boy ok how about this? He was not fighting. End of story. He was being non compliant. He never once raised a had to the officers. You want to know how *I* would of handled it? With just me for starters. I would have put one of the kids arms behind his back grabbed a handful of hair with the other and we would have be out of there. Thats it no need to torture some little kid that was sheltered from reality to much when he was growing up. At the most I would have ruffled his dignity a little. And when we got outside with out the 15mn drama that hits the news the next day. No need for all your ridiculous what ifs or maybes. You grab him and walk him out the door. Hell bouncers in most bars would have done a better job then those clowns did.
Oh and for the reccord I have made 63 felony arrests.
How many do you have?
"With someone who physically fights them, they physically restrain or subdue them. Absent things like tasers, that comes down to much less politically correct methods sometimes. And that results in everything from bruises to dislocated shoulders, and worse. "
Ok to keep this on topic I have seen the entire video and it was SIX on one. ONE skinny little collage student. Is he a jerk? Sure did he need an attitude correction? Maybe.
But if SIX cops can not control one collage student THAT THEY ALLREADY HAVE PINNED ON THE GROUND they don't deserve to be cops. ONE could sit on each limb and renender him helpless. Yet they still needed to tazer him to get the cuffs on? Bunch of sadists.
"you're a cop, and perhaps you don't actually WANT to have to have a wrestling match with someone who might have an unsheathed knife in their pocket, or who might have open wounds, or who might be shockingly strong, etc."
Hi welcome to the job. If you don't like it get a different one.
And as far as the specious argument about having a wrestling match with someone with an open knife in their pocket. Police have had available to them for a long time things like stab proof vests and gloves.
This is not acceptable.
"The student deserved to get zapped. He went in with the intention of causing a scene and being the center of attention. Mission accomplished."
Oh this is good so every time you annoy me I can hit you with a Tazer?
Look I understand that the kid was being a shit. And that he was grandstanding with Kerry. But Tazers are NOT a joke. I have used them on someone legally and lawfully. Once several times. It is never a joke. The pain they feel is real. And I really hope you never have to find out the hard way.
Tazering is not spanking for adults. And I feel that cops tend to use it as a spanking.
I also believe that kind of cop should be forced to follow behind mounted units with a broom for the rest of their time on the police force.
"WTF, your rights by the Constitution are restrictions on government, not on private entities. You can sign all your rights away except your life or liberty (slavery for instance)."
This probably depends on the country you are in BUT in the US this is incorrect.
See the usury laws for a convent example. You can not sign away rights that are yours.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury
You can not sign away your right to vote as another example.
1. The content producers (TV networks) decide what they want to put on and tell the cable companies that it is a take it or leave it deal. If the cable companies puts up a fight they put a scroll in that says Your cable company does not want this channel call them to change their minds on the highest rated shows. They try to force high cost programming in to the lower tiers so everyone that has those tiers has to pay for it. The golf channel did this just before the US Open. It did not work. They are on a high tier package.
2. The cable provider will calculate what the cost to maintain the connection (and some profit and that will be broken out on your bill. Then each channel will be listed.
3. The number of channels will go down. Right now some networks run lower cost channels in the higher tier and subsidize it with a more popular channel. With out that subsidy there would never have been a History Channel for example.
4. The content providers will not let this go through, not the cable companies.
And how many would have to disappear before someone wondered where their blogger went to?
You know THAT is one of the best questions I have ever heard.
And I don't think it could a number of people but rather how well know a blogger was that would start it.
So you know for a fact that 0 people are in gitmo for this, or in CIA secret prisons, or have been exported for torture for any of these actions? Oh, right they won't tell us who is in these places so we really don't know. They could disappear people for this stuff and we would never know.
Ok take off the tinfoil
The difference is you are guessing. Second it is a known fact that people get imprisoned in China for speaking out about the government in a perceived incorrect manner. After all you are still posting right? They did not come get you now did they?
And this is different from anywhere else how? Don't forget about the US government's electronic spying... At least China has the balls to tell it's people it's watching them...
Right and how many blogers are imprisoned because they don't like the government in the US?
How many people that visit the democratic underground are getting arrested for posting there?
Yeah really good comparison there.....
Also taking steps to make sure that the governments "electronic spying" does not catch you is trivial at best.
"OH BUT THE NUCLEAR WASTE" you say. Who cares? Store it for 15-25 years, by then we will have cheap ion propulsion engines (running off nuclear power), to cleanly jettison the waste into mercury or the sun.
OR you could use a breeder reactor and just use two loads of reactor fuel. One running the reactor and the other charging up in a breeder reactor. Much less risk then now were we ship it all over the country.
Is that a Friday?
According to my calender yes it is. It will be interesting to see. That is for sure. Think I am going to make it a point to be on the side of the planet it will be facing. Fun to see it up close and personal, so to speak.
If they can make you have a license plate, then they can read it. You people lost this battle a long time ago.
Damn where are mod points when I need them. This should be a +4 at least.