Slashdot Mirror
Entergy Admits 2005 Tritium Leak
mdsolar writes "The leaking Vermont Yankee nuclear power plant was hit last week by a whistleblower allegation that a previous tritium leak had occurred. Now the parent company, Entergy, has admitted the occurrence of at least one prior leak to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. This is particularly significant for three reasons: because the leak occurred in pipes that company officials later testified under oath did not exist, because the Vermont Senate will likely soon vote to deny Entergy a needed approval to extend the power plant's license for another 20 years, and because President Obama just put taxpayers on the hook for new nuclear power plants in Georgia."
I'm absolutely glowing that this wasn't brought forward earlier. This is something I would never want to happen on my watch
I don't want to be all "So what?" but so what? One plant leaks an unspecified amount of a weak beta emitter...It tested at the leak at a whopping 2 million picocuries, which is a bullshit measurement that's clearly chosen because it's more shocking than 2 microcuries. 2 microcuries is about what you'd get for a basic thyroid test at the docs office. Trituim doesn't stay resident in the body, it's half life is 12 years long, and it's a beta emitter: if you drink it you'll get a few rads, but you can take a shower in it without any problem.
The whole thing is clearly being pushed as an example of the horrible dangers of the super scary nuclear power industry, but what I see is the dangers that are inherent in running antiquated plants for years beyond their design life because a bunch of poorly informed hysterics have blocked all attempts to modernize them for the last 40 years.
And what the hell is the point in talking about the plants in Georgia? That's a different type of plant, being built by a different company! Georgia has the largest coal fired power plant in the us: where's that outrage? Where is the outrage over the radiation it emits?
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
because President Obama just put taxpayers on the hook for new nuclear power plants in Georgia
The keyword there is "new".
That plant has to be at least 30 years old. I think that technology has changed a bit in that time. In general, new is usually better than retrofitted old.
Corporate malfeasance, a dash of coverup, and a more or less fully captured regulatory agency!
I, for one, am fully confident that the present minor tritium leak is the only thing going wrong, or likely to go wrong in the near future. Everything else is absolutely fine and, if it weren't, those involved would do the responsible thing and fix it....
you're not biased.
Yes this leak isn't a big deal as a leak. Nor for that matter is the recent leak. The problem is they lied under oath. And once people are lying about the state of things you don't know what else they are or will lie about. These might not matter, but they might very well lie about the next leak when it is a serious problem. As with many issues, the initial incident isn't nearly as much of a problem as the coverup.
This is clearly an issue of lack of oversight/integrity of a few operators, who are choosing to have unsavory business practices with regard to disclosure. Sure, if they lied they should be prosecuted, but this is hardly evidence that Nuclear Power is inherently flawed.
But go ahead, politicize it. I have my one-liner ready: "No One Died When Entergy representatives to the Vermont Public Service Board Lied."
Entergy got subsidies for their plants. Their performance was close enough for government work. Predictable.
Set your phasers on "funky"!
I just love how the anti-nuclear comes out every time. Yes, it is significant that this leak was hidden from the NRC. Yes, it should affect that company from getting an extension. And yes, because they lied to the government about these pipes when they knew they existed (since they obviously covered up the previous leak), they should get heavy fines (to the individuals, not just the corporation), and even jail time. And absolutely should get denied operating license extension, and possibly even have their existing license revoked.
But all of the above is already covered under existing law and policy, and has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with a DIFFERENT COMPANY building a NEW PLANT in a DIFFERENT STATE. It would be like arresting every person in the country who owns a Silver or Gray car because a Silver/Gray car was involved in a hit and run Rhode Island.
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
Just like pretty much every other company on Earth their primary interest is money. All other concerns are secondary including the safety of the public. It's not the technology that is dangerous, it's the terrible people operating it. I believe nuclear energy can be safe in theory but in practice it's the people who inject the danger to the process. This little omission is just one of thousands, if not tens of thousands of cover-ups by the nuclear industry who are their own worst enemy when it comes to the public embracing nuclear power.
I trust nuclear power. I do not trust the people responsible for providing it, or the people responsible for overseeing them. They are all blinded by money.
It's ridiculous that the summary implies that, in the context of this leak, Obama setting aside funds for building new power plants is a negative thing.
If anything, the fact that America's only nuclear power comes from relatively ancient, decaying reactors of obsolete design should be motivation for building new nuclear power plants. This might be the best tangible thing Obama has proposed to date and informed citizens should be applauding it.
Hey mate, spare a sig?
Tritium does not produce neutrons (few radioactive materials do). It emits only[1] electrons which can only penetrate a few mm of air.
[1] It also emits nearly indetectable electon neutrinos. Billions of neutrinos pass through your body every day
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
the market does not take care of itself
repeat: the market does NOT take care of itself
with things like energy utilities, you do NOT privatize. you heavily involve the government and you heavily regulate
no, it is not red tape that interferes with the normal functioning of the marketplace, it is the only way things fucking work right
for examples like this, for the example of the economic meltdown in 2008, for the example of healthcare, and for examples like enron
no, it does make you a fucking communist to admit that the market does not solve ALL problems. it simply makes you wise and intelligent for simply recognizing that THE. MARKET. DOES. NOT. SOLVE. ALL. PROBLEMS. full stop
for most sectors of society, indeed, a market free of most regulations IS the ideal. but even then, in something like food, for example, you still want the government running around, and you still want to spend tax money on all those pesky government employees and their horrid, horrid bureaucracy, to fucking make sure you're not eating melamine or toxic e coli. yes, you want to pay fuckign taxes for that, asshole
if you had no inspectors, the manufacturers would likely suffer business wise. true. BUT THEY WOULD ALSO KILL PEOPLE. get it? in other words, some failures that market players can suffer are so severe, a simple market correction is not the only way they should be punished. furthermore, some "failures", such as leaking tritium, or overindulging on bad mortgage loans, are so horribly disruptive as to kill people or destroy an entire economy
then you need government bailouts. after which some of you assholes will still blame the government for that, as fucking blind as you are, when it was YOUR FUCKING THINKING THAT LED TO THE DISMANTLING OF THE GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS THAT CREATED THE MELTDOWN
please adjust your idiotic simplistic worship of market forces: they are not the fucking answer to everything. really. welcome to reality assholes
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
While you are correct in noting that a beta emitter isn't necessarily harmless (and emphatically correct that the perjury is by far the bigger issue), I'd like to note that tritium, being an isotope of hydrogen, tends to escape straight up, very fast. Molecules of "normal" hydrogen are VERY light, and rise so fast when released that they can reach escape velocity, plus hydrogen is good at diffusing through containers. Thus, it's safe to conclude that the tritium in question bolted for the stratosphere at its first opportunity, and didn't hang around to endanger anyone. Alas, the same cannot be said of the plant management...
"My strength is as the strength of ten men, for I am wired to the eyeballs on espresso."
Right, because government officials are both benevolent and competent. As with Chernobyl, as with China's pollution.
Everything is Illegal, Immoral or Fattening as the saying goes. There's nothing on this planet that doesn't have risks associated with it and while I don't condone covering something up with lies, this is another example of something that's blown out of proportion.
Is air travel safe? Yes, but wait, those folks who died a year ago on the "regional" Continental flight would disagree.
Is the TSA doing their job? Yes, but wait, that guy who shoved explosives in his pants was from another country and we can't enforce our policies overseas. In the meantime your name doesn't match your boarding pass Tom, it needs to say Thomas.
Is the air we breathe save? Yes, but not in the summer in LA or Houston or any major Metropolitan area. If you're old, young or have Asthma, just stay inside.
Is driving safe? Yes, but if you own a Toyota don't expect to be able to steer or stop.
Is climbing mountains safe? Yes, but just don't get too close to the edges of those volcanoes and watch out for: bears, cougars, bobcats, snakes and falling rocks.
Is taking a shower safe? Yes, but more people die in the home than in the highway, a lot of those die in the bathtub.
Is Nuclear Power safe? Yes, but aging plants and huge projects are always problematic.
Will corporate America ever learn to tell the truth? Yes, under subpoena and after advice from their attorneys.
Is being a "Tree Hugger" safe? Yes unless you count the STDs from all those "Rainbow Reunions."
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
Go read
http://www.essortment.com/all/libertarianwhat_rcrx.htm
You could have googled. it's the second link.
Deleted
Before we talk about nailing the company to the wall perhaps we should look into the reporting requirements a little closer. The linked article itself states, "The NRC is investigating why it took Entergy five years to report the leak, but for it to have been reportable, it has to meet certain off site dose limits. It is also investigating how Entergy responded to the problem." So we don't even know if the leak met reporting requirements. Also, there is much hay made over Entergy lying about the existence of the pipes. The company apparently did not deny the existence of underground pipes but some company representative stated before a public service commission that he/she was unaware of any underground pipes carrying radioactive particles. I don't know the context of the original statement but a close reading would seem to imply the steam pipe in question was not intended to carry radioactive particles and only the failure of several check valves allowed the particles to get into the pipe. I would guess that the steam leak was found because of the trace radiation.
Sure, it can be done safely. But, when you've got Corporate American running things with CEOs who'd sell their own mothers to bury one quarter of lackluster PR, you get these kinds of results. Toyota tried to bury a potentially life threatening flaw in order to postpone a little bad press resulting in a major scandal years later. This is the fundamental flaw in Free Market thinking. Companies aren't going to do the Right Thing because profitability dictates it. They'll lie about it then leave the train wreck for next guy.
If Toyota is willing to lie about a little brake problem that's probably killed people, you trust a company not to lie or cut corners when it comes to expensive waste disposal?
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
AFAIK tritium is an isotope of hydrogen, with an atomic weight of 3. It is radioactive, but its still hydrogen, and is a gas lighter than air. If it leaks its going to rise up to the top of the atmosphere, so its not going to affect anyone unless they live above the plant.
Admit it: you're actually a libertarian trying to make non-libertarians look like idiots.
Nobody wants the nuclear power plant in their back yard because it is: "NUCULAR!!!" The power has to come from somewhere. Yet everyone will happily accept that coal-powered plant in their front yard which actually emits more radiation (through trace amounts in the coal) than a nuclear plant does. And also current designs, as in not from 30 years ago, actually don't melt down: at all. Nuclear material still takes care to handle but of all the trade-off's its actually darn good everything taken into account.
Shh.
Yeah, because the USSR and PRC governments and cultures are equivalent to the USA. Capitalism has created it fair share of problems, including TMI, even when compared to communism.
While I broadly agree with the subject of your post, the tiny release of tritium here is unlikely to kill anyone. Since 1955 there has only been about 250kg of the stuff produced in the first place, and the release here was on the order of 2 microcuries. You get a *significantly higher* amount of radiation from natural background sources. It's also a beta emmiter, so unless you ingest it (and it's a very light gas that will have dissipated quickly, so unlikely) you are not going to be harmed by it at all.
You're facing more danger crossing the road, or eating a Big Mac.
Coal Ash more radioactive than Nuclear Waste
Meltdown proof reactors (search for meltdown to find the relevant part)
And the better overall part?: No greenhouse gases.
Shh.
Right, because government officials are both more benevolent and competent than a private industry whose only concern is profits.
Of course, if you don't like government officials, I'm sure we can do away with the FDA. You trust manufacturers to put the right ingredients on the label, yeah?
:(){
Normally I'm against such an abrasive attitude, but it was quite satisfying to read your rant. Market fundamentalists are like any other fundamentalist - shortsighted and foolish.
:(){
Did they lie? From Brattleboro Reformer:
The leak was prior to statements made by Entergy representatives to the Vermont Public Service Board, in which it said they were not aware of any underground or buried pipes that carried radioactive materials.
and
Ray Shadis, technical consultant for the New England Coalition on Nuclear Pollution, said in 2005, Entergy was filing license extension documents with the NRC claiming that the off-gas system was not included in its aging management plan because it does not interact with the plant's safety systems.
Note that they didn't lie about the leak and by design the pipes would not be carrying radioactive fluids.
Based on levels, it may be that this didn't rise to the level of a reportable leak.
Which brings us to the problem of what definitions people were using and if they were being completely truthful.
Where does tritium fit into the operations at a power plant?
Is it used for pipe radiography? Seems you'd prefer a gamma emitter for that.
Is it being bred? Surely a reactor designed for isotope manufacture would be more convenient.
The loan guarantee is connected because Obama promised support for nuclear power only if it was safe. Manifestly it is not.
And you are?....
Bravo.
For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
It's 2.5million more than they said there was. So what happens when it's 250 million? Or an even bigger accident?
There are additional BIOLOGICAL problems: chemically reactive as water, but the wrong weight. Therefore T2O won't be the same shape as H2O. Organic compounds will not shape correctly or react at the same rates. Tritium/Hydrogen is a big part of DNA. Wrong weight and there's no need to have it hit by a cosmic ray: it's carrying a beta particle that will break the chain right in it.
Today a rowdy group of Vermont Yankee worker broke into a press conference being held by Vermont Businesses for Social Responsibility to shout lies about renewable power: http://www.rutlandherald.com/article/20100223/THISJUSTIN/100229968 Nuclear Hooligans.
When combined with carbon in sugars and starches, it stays in the body when consumed.
I think we should examine the real threat here. Tritium poisoning, while a vital and serious problem affecting everyone, is actually so uncommon that I can't find any death per year figures. Toyota seems to be much more dangerous, with a few hundred of break failures when it sells about 2,000,000 cars a year in the US (and the break failures are in a range of years, so several million cars).
It is time we look at the real threat...showers. Far more lethal than Toyota brakes and tritium combined - many times over, the shills for Corporate America have been manufacturing these death chambers for years while keeping the sheeple ignorant of the danger. Just ask any of their CEO's and they'll lie, telling you that its safe to take a shower, when they KNOW thousands of people die each year in these menaces. It's high time we spoke out aganist the threat and shut down the companies that make these lethal contraptions.
Moderation : -1 Conservative Viewpoint
There is probably less than 70 years of uranium available at the present rate of use. Increasing use would cut the time to the point where a plant built today would run out of fuel before it gets a chance to develop leaks. http://www.physorg.com/news177839133.html
with the help of the Obama Administration. The PBMR with Westinghouse should finally give Ernesto Fermi his due.
Entergy has announced it will sell 3% of its power VT Yankee at close to its old rate of 4 cents/kwh though it has not agreed to a price for the other 97%. http://www.reformer.com/latestnews/ci_14455061
Is a pipe in an underground pipe tunnel the same thing as a buried pipe?
The articles seemed to use "underground" and "buried" interchangably, but I didn't see an exact quote as to what Jay Thayer was asked and how he responded.
Indeed, I wasn't considering that possibility. Ah, logic...
"My strength is as the strength of ten men, for I am wired to the eyeballs on espresso."
Maryland's Calvert Cliffs reactors seem to be becoming unreliable: http://wjz.com/wireapnewsmd/NRC.inspectors.sent.2.1514222.html And, South Carolina's Oconee just sprung a leak as well http://www.independentmail.com/news/2010/feb/09/oconee-nuclear-station-reports-tritium-exceeds-ind/ It is probably a mistake to run these plants past their 40 year design lifetime.
“Enterprise Admits 20005 Trilitium Leak”
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
What? I'm sorry, but I'm failing to grasp how an essentially monopolized market, where there is extremely limited choice due to massive regulations, is supposed to somehow prove a "free-market" failure. This is a failure on multiple levels, and I'm not complaining about regulations on nuclear power plants, I'm just saying, this has NOTHING to do with free markets.
Nuclear power could be such a good thing. But it isn't they way they're doing it. This comes from the simple reason that we're stuck with corporate greed like this. Entergy has been underfunding the decommissioning fund for Vermont Yankee. Then with the stock market crash it went even further down. Then there was the cooling tower that collapsed. That was dramatic. Then they lied to us about the pipes saying there were no under ground pipes. Then they said yes there were underground pipes but they carried no radioactive materials. And then they lied about lying. And then lied about lying about lying. There comes a time when we need to just cut these goons off at the ankles. They've gone too far.
Read about the clean future of nuclear techology, the Traveling Wave Reactor.
We shouldn't accept anything less- our future doesn't lie in continuing to use power plants based on 1950s techology.
is the issue with nuclear power plants leaking tritium, enron, a shitty healthcare system, and the market implosion of 2008
a "monopolized market, where there is extremely limited choices due to massive regulations", is the only thing that makes sense with healthcare, electric utilities, nuclear plants, and the banking system. even food: melamine and e colil. you think the maarket takes care of those problems asshole?
do you fucking understand the fucking obvious now?
there has been a regular libertarian and free market fundamentalist drumbeat for a decade or more now saying we deregulate everything and everything will smell like roses
and what do we get?
you tell me, shitstain
correct your idiotic ideology, it is destroying this country
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
What you said!
You know, the nuclear industry has only themselves to blame for the public's mistrust. For half a century the industry has followed a policy of cover-up, denial, talking down to the public, and an unbelievably condescending attitude that nothing can ever go wrong. Essentially they practice "security by obscurity", but we know how effective that is in other industries.
I'm a proponent of nuclear NRG, but they need to clean house, get rid of the bozos running the show, and become more forthcoming with information to earn back more of the public's trust.
It's completely fucking ridiculous that flamebait like this is getting modded insightful on this site. Seriously, this is one of the (many) anti-libertarian rants I've seen lately on this site, and they often tend to get modded UP instead of down. Just because you used the word "nuclear" a few times does not mean that this is on topic AT ALL.
I'm starting to think that the Slashdot user base is getting stupider by the minute. I'm increasingly seeing horrible summaries and outright flamebait getting posted to the main page, and it usually takes several minutes of wading through all of the bullshit political rhetoric to find someone who has has the knowledge and the time to read the article and point out the falsehoods.
Seriously, shut the fuck up your self important jackasses. No one wants to hear aimless rambling. Go circle jerk with your friends on DailyKos.
"the market does not take care of itself
repeat: the market does NOT take care of itself"
Wrong, full stop. A free market will indeed take care of itself. We don't have a free market so no it won't take care of itself. It seems you are a fan of government involvement. But to equate our current market to a free market is ignorance or plain dishonesty.
All of our nuclear reactors are leaking QUADRILLIONS of neutrinos per second! Close down these radiation death machines NOW! Rah rah rah!
http://www.reformer.com/localnews/ci_14458338
because the government was hard at work for the last 10 years removing regulations created after the great depression
do you in any way dispute or deny that simple fact?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
because the government was hard at work for the last 10 years removing regulations created after the great depression
do you in any way dispute or deny that simple fact?
so what would happen if there were no regulations at all?
what would happen is the 1800s, historical fact, moron. where greedy booms continually busted into financial panics, wiping people out constantly. why? BECAUSE THERE WERE NO REGULATIONS YOU MORON
do you know your history? do you honestly want to stand in opposition to well recorded and obvious historical fact?
http://history1800s.about.com/od/thegildedage/a/financialpanics.htm
panic of 1819
panic of 1837
panic of 1857
panic of 1873
panic of 1893
why did these happen. because of HUMAN NATURE
NOT
THE
GOVERNMENT
do you deny that? are you going to tell me the tired line every naive utopianist has ever regurgitated: "all we have to do is convince people to behave in ways they never have in all of recorded history and libertarianism and free market fundamentalism will work! yay!"
fucking retards
fact: an unregulated market NATURALLY bubbles and pops
simple. fucking. fact
do you deny that?
are you going to sit there in denial and deny the fucking truth of the REALITY of the world you live in? not your fantasy life, not your castles in the sky about how things might work if everyone just acted magically unlike human beings. FUCKING FACT: MARKETS NEED TO BE REGULATED HEAVILY BY GOVERNMENTS IN ORDER TO FUNCTION WELL
go ahead, keep denying that
you're a fucking retard in denial of obvious historical fact if so
stop choking on your ignorant propaganda and open your fucking eyes you ignorant idealistic naive assholes, you are destroying this country
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/02/24/business/AP-US-Vermont-Yankee.html
Entergy claims it has save Vermonters $300 million over eight years because of its electricity rates. http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/editorials/articles/2010/02/26/leaking_credibility_vt_yankee_must_step_up_or_face_closure/ But this is just about what is lacking in the decomissioning fund for the plant that Entergy has failed to contribute to. Sure hope Entergy has that money available now to make up the deficit.