I would like to see Internet Explorer for Linux. IE is a fine web browser. It's not perfect, but it's vastly more stable than Netscape, and very much faster
Blargh. The only reason IE is big, is that micro$oft bundles it with windows. If not, then netscape would still have ruled, and Opera would have had a significant larger market share.
Have you ever tried Opera btw? In that case, for how long? Did you give it more than an hour chance? When you just start using it, you.. ohwell, you get hooked.:) it's.. *great*.:)
I'm sure a lot of things runs OK through WINE, and I really support their effort. Its just that I want my applications to be written for linux / unix , not for windows.
And sure, Agent is kind of good.. but its not Good Enough. It misses a lot of features I really want out of a newsreader.
Oh, and mIRC. I'm sure its perfectly WINEable. But I still want a client written for linux / X instead. I'm using quirc at the moment, which is 'ok'.. but it has some NASTY memoryleaks.
As for the other 17 browsers... Opera might get a nice niche market
Actually, I think it'll be quite dominant.:) Its *SMALL* and its *FAST*. Damn, why should webbrowsers take up 10+ MB? I really appreciate it when my webbrowser is just that. A *Webbrowser*.
...most of the browser are not even close to viable alternatives to the "classics", ie. Netscape and lynx. Most of them render only a subset of html, and/or render what they do understand in odd ways.
Does lynx support html 4.0 yet? I seem to remember that it failed to show my tables at all. It wouldn't even put the information 'flat' without tables.
That *really* annoyed me.:) But, I guess, if it isn't supported at the moment, it will be in the future.
i eagerly await the finished version of either Mozilla or Opera. i am willing to pay (!) for a good fast browser that won't suck up my limited resources (but not too much!!:)
Ever used Windows? With Opera installed? If you have, you ought to love it.:) I still remember having used Netscape and IE for ages. Then installing Opera and just.. 'woahh'. it was SMALL. It was FAST, and I *loved* the caching features.
After I converted to linux full time, I've been missing only four things. Opera, mIRC (or, for that matter, just ANY decent graphical IRC client), a decent newsreader, and a decent mailreader. Kmail is quite ok -- but I really miss a lot of things in there.
And newsreader, well, I use 'pan' nowadays. Its quite good.. but still VERY beta. (0.64, I think).
Anyways. If you pay for Opera, then you get a great program.:) Think its only about.. $30.. or was that students-only? Don't remember.
Personally, I'm waiting for KDE 2.0 and Konqueror. If Konq. can't hack the job, then I'll go for Opera. The commercial non-GPL'd, Norwegian browser. Personally, I think i'll go for Opera in any case, since I really think its the best browser available.
However, its interesting to see that there are so many browsers available. I didn't know about any except Netscape, Arena, the KDE-thingomajig in addition to lynx.
Mozilla will sure be interesting. But I have a nagging feeling that I won't like it. I don't like netscape today (even though I use it, because of lack of alternatives.. hmm, maybe I should look closer at these 21 when I get home from work) - and I don't think I'll like mozilla when its released. But we'll see.:)
Uh. Not everyone has enough money to fully insure their cars. The car wasn't exactly a mercedes, a regular car, used at work.
Your father could also have prevented the incident by locking the car in a garage.
Uhh. What garage? Let see. In the area we lived in at that time.. let me recall.. yeah, i think there are some 50 houses, and maybe 5 garages. most people don't have garages in that area. Great idea. And, considering that we only rented a flat,.. well.. really.. using a garage was pretty much impossible.
Furthermore, the car actually was parked outside the local post office (where my father worked) at the time it was vandalized.
Jon Katz has now written too many stories on thsis topic, with too little new content. They are all emotional pulls about geeks and how highschool is unkind to them.
I disagree with you. I went through a living hell in the compulsory parts of the norwegian school system (called "Grunnskolen"). I shed more tears when I read the first couple (or was it the three first?) hellmouth stories, than i'd done in years.
Reading other testemonies from geeks who were 'outcast' were great. Of course, you may not like it. It isn't in YOUR area of interest. But a lot of us geeks actually *embrace* the series.
You think the topic is exhausted. it is not. it is important to never, ever let the focus off the topic of "bullying". As long as bullying is a problem, one should focus on it.
The real question here, is what lies in "essential liberty". In my book - the "right" to carry a gun is not an essential liberty. The right to free speech, on the other hand, is. But, then again, we have a problem - bullying.
I go out and 'say' something in public - which is quite controversial. A lot of people disagree with me. They start showing up with banners outside my house, outside my workplace, and so on. They keep track of me 24h, and really tries to make my life a living hell. Should this be allowed? If not - doesn't that 'not' interfere with free speech?
If most people.. if ALL people were open minded, and accepted different opinions, without wanting to bully the ones coming with the different opionions.. THEN, and ONLY then, would totally free speech be a good thing.
We don't live in an ideal society. Should we then have ideal rights - which only fits an ideal society?
Here in Norway, anyone under 15 who breaks the law will cause his parents to get into legal trouble
Nope. Parrents has to cover economically for childrens damages, up to 1000,- NOK (that is, about $150)
Which really sucks. My father bought a new car, and a local kid (10 year old or so) used a hammer and a nail to do some major damage to the car. And my father had no "kasko"-insurance.
Future Crew, in my opinion, were gods.. wonder whatever happened to them..
Well, they were Gods - but not like the christian God. They were mundane, had normal human weaknesses and so forth (remember how they cheated in the grapics compo one year? I don't remember who it was, but one of them ripped another persons picture, adjusted a few details, and released as his own).
Anyways, I think FC was involved (at least some of the crew) in the game 'Death Rally' a couple of years ago.
Well I gues that shows how close to the truth that guy from www.xenu.net actually was...
Actually, I don't think there was anything NOT true there.:) Andreas Heldal-Lund is a great heathen guy. He's been working against scientology for years now. He's the leader of the norwegian heathen society in Stavanger / Norway.
Scientologist do have brains the size of dried grapes. (that's a free interpretation)
Argh, I hate it when you do that. I clicked the link, and found this.. fantastic.. writing. Now I've just reformatted it, and is printing it. *urg*. Damn you! Finding me all this time-consuming literature.
We all know the average user is lazy about passwords. Sniffing one password often compromises many things. Yes, the user is at fault but now the sysadmin can do something about it (namely wrapping the protocol in SSH). With OpenSSH, perhaps more sysadmins will agree with the licensing.
For me and you, and probably the rest of the slashdot readers, its obvious that sending passwords in the clear is a Bad Thing (tm). The problem is that most people don't give a damn about getting their passwords sniffed. (Ha! Someone may read my email! What a catastrophy!). I've heard the last argument at least 10 times during this term at the university ALONE.
What they don't realise, is that they compromize a LOT more than just their email. They make the systems vulnerable to local exploits. Careless users is a *Bad Thing* -- but they don't seem to care.
Why don't sysadmins just disable telnet / ssh and so on? Well, the problem - of course - is that would send people rioting. People want to use the application they're used to. They don't give a damn about security. Me, and a lot of other administrators, tend to set up pop3only accounts - so that if the pop3 pwd is compromised -- nothing but the persons email is available for the sniffer (i hope?:-). But, if they use the same pwd for their pop3 and for their shellaccount - then there is trouble.
You mention the lisence. Yes - a lot of us want to be 'good buds' who use the open source things. But, if it means that I've got to compile Yet Another Program - then it will be done.. tomorrow. Always tomorrow, never today. That means it will take time. People will start using it - SLOWLY. Not necessarily because they are afraid of using something new -- but they want to do LESS work. And, since they're already using the non-GPL'en version , and using it happily -- why should they do a lot of "unneccessary" work? (I will do it.. in time.. because I want to support the Effort.;-)
ohwell, yet another long slashdot rant in my probably far to shabby english.
Has there been an exploit? I remember seeing a buffer overflow. I also seem to remember someone saying it would be *hard* (but not impossible) to exploit.
The poor design of d.net client security has been demonstrated by multiple occassions of people faking results.
I'm curious. Exactly how should this security be implemented? I'm no security expert, but I've read a bit now and then.
Nobody should need to 'register' to be able to participate. It should be as easy as downloading the client, then download blocks, then crack them. If its to much work to set up, only die hard nerds like you and me would want to.
Of course, there is no problem making sure of who the packets coming from. Do it with some sort of private/public key system -- where the sender sign his keys. I don't understand WHY we should do this though -- as anyone would love having keys sent in as him.
So, how should one make sure a key is really scanned?
Maybe I'm the only person who thinks so, but to me, brute force compromise of 56 bit keys proves absolutely nothing at this point. Everyone knows that a 56bit keyspace can be searched in a relatively short period of time -- big shit -- so what?
Its a challenge. distributed.net makes use of spare cpu cycles. I'm currently using 30+ machines cracking rc5-64. I'm not sure if I should download the new client, but I'm considering it. There is no reason whatsoever to have so much machine power go unused.
Otherwise distributed.net stands as the biggest coordinated waste of CPU time.
No. You waste cpu time if you do NOT run some sort of client. My rc5des clients run at nicelevel 20 (the default). That makes it use.. well, almost no cpu-time whatsoever -- that other programs would've used.
At least SETI has some productive goal.
Uhm.. I don't think so. Crypto is something that is important to us HERE and NOW. IF we discover ET's on some distant world. Say a star 100ly from here (that's not likely, far too short a distance). If we find that there is a POSSIBILITY for life there, and send a signal back -- they'll receive it in 100 years. If we wait 5 years sending the signal -- it will have no effect whatsoever.
Crypto on the other hand, is important to us in daily life. It is needed that governments remove all restrictions against crypto.
Because this is the internet, and we're fucking tired of getting our mailboxes filled. That's why. If you're not receving spam, then its because you've not been on the internet for long enough.
Is it because people have to "pay" for it by connecting to their ISP? Spam usually is not that big. Even if there are 20 of them, that's what, like, 30k of information?
Doesn't matter. Its irritating, and it's the principle that I actually PAY for the shit.
You don't have to pay for junk mail? Balogna!! You don't think that Land's End or Sharper Image adds that into the cost of their products? Bullhonkey!
I don't buy from bulkmailers (Therefore, it doesn't affect the cost)
Simply require that Mass Marketers include an identifier (e.g. "UNSOLICITED") in the Subject Line of the email.
FYI: The Internet is a worldwide network. Every country on the face of this freaking earth had to agree with you for it too work.
Furthermore, it still ads strain to mailservers. It ads strain to your internet connection (your programs have to know what they filter), and so forth. I'm NOT willing to pay for those spamming dickheads.
But a "spam" tag in the headers of mails would be great...isn't it?
No. It wastes resources. And *everybody* would make a filter that made everything with '[spam]' in the header goto/dev/null. Most mail-agents would come with it as *default*
Not to mention that maild's would come with it as default.
Slashdot Mirror
I would like to see Internet Explorer for Linux. IE is a fine web browser. It's not perfect, but it's vastly more stable than Netscape, and very much faster
.. ohwell, you get hooked. :) it's .. *great*. :)
Blargh. The only reason IE is big, is that micro$oft bundles it with windows. If not, then netscape would still have ruled, and Opera would have had a significant larger market share.
Have you ever tried Opera btw? In that case, for how long? Did you give it more than an hour chance? When you just start using it, you
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I'm sure a lot of things runs OK through WINE, and I really support their effort. Its just that I want my applications to be written for linux / unix , not for windows.
.. but it has some NASTY memoryleaks.
And sure, Agent is kind of good.. but its not Good Enough. It misses a lot of features I really want out of a newsreader.
Oh, and mIRC. I'm sure its perfectly WINEable. But I still want a client written for linux / X instead. I'm using quirc at the moment, which is 'ok'
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As for the other 17 browsers... Opera might get a nice niche market
:) Its *SMALL* and its *FAST*. Damn, why should webbrowsers take up 10+ MB? I really appreciate it when my webbrowser is just that. A *Webbrowser*.
Actually, I think it'll be quite dominant.
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...most of the browser are not even close to viable alternatives to the "classics", ie. Netscape and lynx. Most of them render only a subset of html, and/or render what they do understand in odd ways.
:) But, I guess, if it isn't supported at the moment, it will be in the future.
Does lynx support html 4.0 yet? I seem to remember that it failed to show my tables at all. It wouldn't even put the information 'flat' without tables.
That *really* annoyed me.
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i eagerly await the finished version of either Mozilla or Opera. i am willing to pay (!) for a good fast browser that won't suck up my limited resources (but not too much!! :)
:) I still remember having used Netscape and IE for ages. Then installing Opera and just.. 'woahh'. it was SMALL. It was FAST, and I *loved* the caching features.
.. but still VERY beta. (0.64, I think).
:) Think its only about .. $30 .. or was that students-only? Don't remember.
Ever used Windows? With Opera installed? If you have, you ought to love it.
After I converted to linux full time, I've been missing only four things. Opera, mIRC (or, for that matter, just ANY decent graphical IRC client), a decent newsreader, and a decent mailreader. Kmail is quite ok -- but I really miss a lot of things in there.
And newsreader, well, I use 'pan' nowadays. Its quite good
Anyways. If you pay for Opera, then you get a great program.
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Personally, I'm waiting for KDE 2.0 and Konqueror. If Konq. can't hack the job, then I'll go for Opera. The commercial non-GPL'd, Norwegian browser. Personally, I think i'll go for Opera in any case, since I really think its the best browser available.
:)
However, its interesting to see that there are so many browsers available. I didn't know about any except Netscape, Arena, the KDE-thingomajig in addition to lynx.
Mozilla will sure be interesting. But I have a nagging feeling that I won't like it. I don't like netscape today (even though I use it, because of lack of alternatives.. hmm, maybe I should look closer at these 21 when I get home from work) - and I don't think I'll like mozilla when its released. But we'll see.
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It's pretty dumb not to fully insure a new car.
.. well.. really.. using a garage was pretty much impossible.
Uh. Not everyone has enough money to fully insure their cars. The car wasn't exactly a mercedes, a regular car, used at work.
Your father could also have prevented the incident by locking the car in a garage.
Uhh. What garage? Let see. In the area we lived in at that time.. let me recall.. yeah, i think there are some 50 houses, and maybe 5 garages. most people don't have garages in that area. Great idea. And, considering that we only rented a flat,
Furthermore, the car actually was parked outside the local post office (where my father worked) at the time it was vandalized.
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Jon Katz has now written too many stories on thsis topic, with too little new content. They are all emotional pulls about geeks and how highschool is unkind to them.
I disagree with you. I went through a living hell in the compulsory parts of the norwegian school system (called "Grunnskolen"). I shed more tears when I read the first couple (or was it the three first?) hellmouth stories, than i'd done in years.
Reading other testemonies from geeks who were 'outcast' were great. Of course, you may not like it. It isn't in YOUR area of interest. But a lot of us geeks actually *embrace* the series.
You think the topic is exhausted. it is not. it is important to never, ever let the focus off the topic of "bullying". As long as bullying is a problem, one should focus on it.
Katz! You're great! Keep up the good work.
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The real question here, is what lies in "essential liberty". In my book - the "right" to carry a gun is not an essential liberty. The right to free speech, on the other hand, is. But, then again, we have a problem - bullying.
.. if ALL people were open minded, and accepted different opinions, without wanting to bully the ones coming with the different opionions.. THEN, and ONLY then, would totally free speech be a good thing.
I go out and 'say' something in public - which is quite controversial. A lot of people disagree with me. They start showing up with banners outside my house, outside my workplace, and so on. They keep track of me 24h, and really tries to make my life a living hell. Should this be allowed? If not - doesn't that 'not' interfere with free speech?
If most people
We don't live in an ideal society. Should we then have ideal rights - which only fits an ideal society?
--
Here in Norway, anyone under 15 who breaks the law will cause his parents to get into legal trouble
Nope. Parrents has to cover economically for childrens damages, up to 1000,- NOK (that is, about $150)
Which really sucks. My father bought a new car, and a local kid (10 year old or so) used a hammer and a nail to do some major damage to the car. And my father had no "kasko"-insurance.
--
Future Crew, in my opinion, were gods.. wonder whatever happened to them..
Well, they were Gods - but not like the christian God. They were mundane, had normal human weaknesses and so forth (remember how they cheated in the grapics compo one year? I don't remember who it was, but one of them ripped another persons picture, adjusted a few details, and released as his own).
Anyways, I think FC was involved (at least some of the crew) in the game 'Death Rally' a couple of years ago.
--
Well I gues that shows how close to the truth that guy from www.xenu.net actually was...
:) Andreas Heldal-Lund is a great heathen guy. He's been working against scientology for years now. He's the leader of the norwegian heathen society in Stavanger / Norway.
Actually, I don't think there was anything NOT true there.
Scientologist do have brains the size of dried grapes. (that's a free interpretation)
You're giving them FAR too much credit.
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Beowulf cluster. Awww yeah!!!
Argh, I hate it when you do that. I clicked the link, and found this.. fantastic.. writing. Now I've just reformatted it, and is printing it. *urg*. Damn you! Finding me all this time-consuming literature.
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They need to make their online books a little more web-friendly.
Download the ascii and read it at home, stupid.
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>> They are the premier group doing online texts. You really have to give them that.
>And the oldest! There's pretty much as old as the net.
I remember using Mike's BBS (in norway), and downloading Pg files from there. I thought it was a great resource then - and I still think it is.
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At the risk of getting flamed, does anyone know if there is a Windows client program that will work with OpenSSH?
At the risk of making a fool of myself (again). I think you may use all existing SSH1 compilant clients.
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We all know the average user is lazy about passwords. Sniffing one password often compromises many things. Yes, the user is at fault but now the sysadmin can do something about it (namely wrapping the protocol in SSH). With OpenSSH, perhaps more sysadmins will agree with the licensing.
:-). But, if they use the same pwd for their pop3 and for their shellaccount - then there is trouble.
.. tomorrow. Always tomorrow, never today. That means it will take time. People will start using it - SLOWLY. Not necessarily because they are afraid of using something new -- but they want to do LESS work. And, since they're already using the non-GPL'en version , and using it happily -- why should they do a lot of "unneccessary" work? (I will do it.. in time.. because I want to support the Effort. ;-)
For me and you, and probably the rest of the slashdot readers, its obvious that sending passwords in the clear is a Bad Thing (tm). The problem is that most people don't give a damn about getting their passwords sniffed. (Ha! Someone may read my email! What a catastrophy!). I've heard the last argument at least 10 times during this term at the university ALONE.
What they don't realise, is that they compromize a LOT more than just their email. They make the systems vulnerable to local exploits. Careless users is a *Bad Thing* -- but they don't seem to care.
Why don't sysadmins just disable telnet / ssh and so on? Well, the problem - of course - is that would send people rioting. People want to use the application they're used to. They don't give a damn about security. Me, and a lot of other administrators, tend to set up pop3only accounts - so that if the pop3 pwd is compromised -- nothing but the persons email is available for the sniffer (i hope?
You mention the lisence. Yes - a lot of us want to be 'good buds' who use the open source things. But, if it means that I've got to compile Yet Another Program - then it will be done
ohwell, yet another long slashdot rant in my probably far to shabby english.
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Stuff like the latest exploit?
Has there been an exploit? I remember seeing a buffer overflow. I also seem to remember someone saying it would be *hard* (but not impossible) to exploit.
I've still not seen any exploits floating around.
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The poor design of d.net client security has been demonstrated by multiple occassions of people faking results.
I'm curious. Exactly how should this security be implemented? I'm no security expert, but I've read a bit now and then.
Nobody should need to 'register' to be able to participate. It should be as easy as downloading the client, then download blocks, then crack them. If its to much work to set up, only die hard nerds like you and me would want to.
Of course, there is no problem making sure of who the packets coming from. Do it with some sort of private/public key system -- where the sender sign his keys. I don't understand WHY we should do this though -- as anyone would love having keys sent in as him.
So, how should one make sure a key is really scanned?
--
Maybe I'm the only person who thinks so, but to me, brute force compromise of 56 bit keys proves absolutely nothing at this point. Everyone knows that a 56bit keyspace can be searched in a relatively short period of time -- big shit -- so what?
.. well, almost no cpu-time whatsoever -- that other programs would've used.
Its a challenge. distributed.net makes use of spare cpu cycles. I'm currently using 30+ machines cracking rc5-64. I'm not sure if I should download the new client, but I'm considering it. There is no reason whatsoever to have so much machine power go unused.
Otherwise distributed.net stands as the biggest coordinated waste of CPU time.
No. You waste cpu time if you do NOT run some sort of client. My rc5des clients run at nicelevel 20 (the default). That makes it use
At least SETI has some productive goal.
Uhm.. I don't think so. Crypto is something that is important to us HERE and NOW. IF we discover ET's on some distant world. Say a star 100ly from here (that's not likely, far too short a distance). If we find that there is a POSSIBILITY for life there, and send a signal back -- they'll receive it in 100 years. If we wait 5 years sending the signal -- it will have no effect whatsoever.
Crypto on the other hand, is important to us in daily life. It is needed that governments remove all restrictions against crypto.
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Well, Gore is, as we all know, the father of the internet. How could y2k be a problem, in a country that has both MicroSoft and Intel ..
ohwell, no wonder. Gore probably [try] to make sure that MicroSoft stays in one piece.
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Why do people get in such an uproar?
Because this is the internet, and we're fucking tired of getting our mailboxes filled. That's why. If you're not receving spam, then its because you've not been on the internet for long enough.
Is it because people have to "pay" for it by connecting to their ISP? Spam usually is not that big. Even if there are 20 of them, that's what, like, 30k of information?
Doesn't matter. Its irritating, and it's the principle that I actually PAY for the shit.
You don't have to pay for junk mail? Balogna!! You don't think that Land's End or Sharper Image adds that into the cost of their products? Bullhonkey!
I don't buy from bulkmailers (Therefore, it doesn't affect the cost)
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Simply require that Mass Marketers include an identifier (e.g. "UNSOLICITED") in the Subject Line of the email.
FYI: The Internet is a worldwide network. Every country on the face of this freaking earth had to agree with you for it too work.
Furthermore, it still ads strain to mailservers. It ads strain to your internet connection (your programs have to know what they filter), and so forth. I'm NOT willing to pay for those spamming dickheads.
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Except one out of a million will buy your product if you advertise with spam.
I'm afraid that's wrong. I'm afraid one in one hundred falls for spam -- either by visiting the website advertised, or by buying the product.
Sorry mate, people are stupid.
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But a "spam" tag in the headers of mails would be great...isn't it?
/dev/null. Most mail-agents would come with it as *default*
No. It wastes resources. And *everybody* would make a filter that made everything with '[spam]' in the header goto
Not to mention that maild's would come with it as default.
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