Really I would like to see a link on that one. In any case I did point out that it would prove that it was obvious and to to top it off I have another one Neuromancer was published in 1984 and if decks don't prove that this is an obvious idea then I don't know what would. Yet another reason to love William Gibson.
Why would Star Wars be too late? It was the late 70s when it came out. And now that I think about it the above poster is right they did have some handheld type things in the Death Star scenes.
Star Wars not being real was of course not really prior art and I can't think of any handhelp computers in it. But what about tricorders (sp?) or anything else handheld or portable from pre 1986 SF. If not prior art this would prove that it was and is a *very* obvious idea. Which is what I think you meant in any case.
I had the same thought but the Newton was not introduced until 1993 but this does bring up a interesting point. IIRC you have to defend a patent for it to be considered vaild. So why would the argument that they never used the patent against Apple not be a defense? I might be wrong here please let me know if I am. http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/content/zdnn/0522/zdnn00 15.html
"the (relative) lack of freedom to create or consume content" WTF? You are right 100% right it is much easier to start a newspaper or publish a magazine or get a tv or radio show than it is to publish content on the web. Would you please give an example of how the net has made creating or consuming content harder?
I will agree that for the average home user Linux is not there. Although I've been told that Mandrake is close. But for the most part when speaking of home use you are right.
Cosnidering that I turn down several job offers a month and am now looking at another one pretty closely yes I do think being an admin is a long term good thing. Yup and of course winders *never* loses it's mind and goes all to hell and needs to have people called in to fix it. The simple fact of the matter is when it is up and running it is just as easy if not more so than winders and when it breaks Susie is not going to be fixing winders anymore than she can fix *nix. You will notice that I used the past tense in those statements. Yes it is somewhat better with winders 2000 but still no where as nice as *nix.
This is why sys admins exist and why we are paid rather well. What about Linux with X up and a well configured WM is *not* point and click. My wife can do it. I have given it to many secretaries all of whom with ~1 hour of training can do it. Hell my 5 year old son can navigate E + gnome. While it is not possible to admin a Linux system without the command line it is very possible to use one without. The simple answer to too much choice which is what your other two points come down to is have a good admin test demonstarte and explain. Then make a decision based on your needs and wants and stick with it. Most arguments I have heard of this type stem from a confusion between using and system and admining a system. With M$ it has been the case that people have had to play amatuer sys admin either because there was no good way to stop them from doing it or there was no really good way to do it for them. With *nix I can use SSH to admin boxen on the other side of town and not get out of my chair. Thus we can once again have a sharp division between admins and users. And then Susie the secratary can set down at her machine and do her work instead of having to worry about doing admin duties on her machine. This is a good thing.
That would be wrong. Let's take a look at the facts. 1. Most distros use a stock kernel just with diffrent compile options. Thanks to the GPL anyone anywhere working on the kernel is helping everyone. 2. Many distros are derivied from RH or Debian. And in the case or Progeny help Debian out while working on their own goals. This is a good thing. 3. People are going to work on what they think is cool. Even with some of the economic woes going on if you have the skills to be a Linux developer you are still not going to have any trouble paying the rent. This means that almost every person out there who is paid to write Linux code is doing it because they want to if they did not want to work on that bit of code they could very easily go somewhere else and do it and get paid. The people who are doing it on their own ar going to do what they want to end of story. 4. Point to a distro that has caused fragmentation in the kernel. There is not a major one with more than a handfull of people working on it. Go back to 3 for comments on fragmentation of desktops packaging systems etc. 5. My job would be *much* harder if we only had one distro. For example I have a client who really wants a phone number to call in case I fall off the face of the earth. I need RH (shudder) for that person. Another wants the samllest cleanest system I can give him. Debian to the rescue. Yet another needs a very small braindead easy to manage firewall system. god I love the guys who work on floppyfw. In short multiple distros are a great thing for anybody who really understands and works with the code.
The software does not have to come as a.deb in fact apt-get install realplayer insists that you have the.rpm of realplayer:) If Oracle decided to test or if you could make it work with Debian there is no reason that the apt-get install.deb could not just point to/cdrom and get the stuff that it needs or just run the installer with the options that it wants at that point. This would most likely require that Oracle at least help a bit to make the code possible but it could be done. This is the true power of apt you can use it to install just about anything you want in just about any format. This is a good thing.
Hehehe.. You are forgetting that at that time to publish or distribute most works by Tom Paine was treason and was in fact illegal. So yes it was censorship. This goes for many other works by the other founding fathers. Now where you are wrong about moderation is that it is not in fact any of these things. The analogy is if one merchant refused to carry Common Sense would this be censorship or to make it more accurate if a bookstore did not put the book in the front window and promote it. Or if for example the New York Times won't publish you on page one but several other papers will. You are I'm afraid confusing the right to speech with the right to have a specific audience. The simple fact is/. will publish , maybe not at the top of a list of comments but it *is* there, anything that you happen to type in name me another source of information about which this statement is true and I will accept that moderation is censorship.
Hi again. Yes I can imagine a world in which Tom Paine was censored in fact I'm living in such a world right now. The crown did everything that it could to squash and destroy the works of Tom Paine and many of the other founding fathers. Now from a earlier thread in which we went back and forth on this you stated that making it hard to publish something is censorship. Well the English governement at the time would have killed Tom Paine had they been able to catch him and made life very hard for anyone caught with those works. In fact signing the declaration of independece was a act of treason in the eyes of the crown. So it was made very hard for the founding fathers to publish or get anything to readers which by your defination is censorship. The simple fact of the matter is moderation is not censorship.
Take a look at http://www.us.rasterman.com/pages/e.html for some reason it seems that this is where you need to go now for news. I for one love Enlightenment and would never use anything else.
"Damn I can't believe I just said that." But you are right now that I think about it a bit more. Once you get over the I don't know and can't learn it stage you start to understand just how wrong the winders GUI is but unless you are exposed to something better you never will learn or understand just how bad it is. I think the reason most people fear and avoid the command line is that they have never been exposed to a real shell before. Here at work many people get their first taste of bash and within a week many of them hate the damn winders GUI and command line (or lack of) as much as I do. Once you take the time to learn and use the power I don't think anyone will ever go back.
I still don't get why people think the win 9X GUI is so great. yea it is what everybody knows but it just plain sucks. But this is of course a limit of all GUIs Basically for really working with files *nothing* beats xterm and bash.:) Having said that the wind 9x GUI is just plain wrong. Everything useful is buried and you either have way too many ways to do things or they can't be done at all. And have you ever tried to really customize the look and feel of a winders box? Yech. I have a couple of "John Doe" types begging me to install Linux for them now that they have seen my desktop (E + Gnome with all the Gnome stuff turned off:) and the Irix theme from e.themes.org) So please tell me just what is it that win 95's GUI does better? I have so far *never* gotten an answer to that question.:)
You are right. I'm assuming the poster meant with a pure software solution in which case he is right. BTW this is a really fun site. http://lavarand.sgi.com/
IIRC if you look at the Zapatista incident they had many of their supporters (lots of em in Europe) go and hit a page at the same time. The reason this would not work if you wanted to trick someone into doing is that everyone would have to run that worm within a few minutes of each other and I don't see that being very probable.
Because the fine folks at Arbor Networks can't make any money doing that. I mean come on if you don't have to pay through the nose for it it must not work right? :)
Slashdot Mirror
Somebody should point Palm's lawyers at this thread this is damned good stuff.
Really I would like to see a link on that one. In any case I did point out that it would prove that it was obvious and to to top it off I have another one Neuromancer was published in 1984 and if decks don't prove that this is an obvious idea then I don't know what would.
Yet another reason to love William Gibson.
Why would Star Wars be too late? It was the late 70s when it came out. And now that I think about it the above poster is right they did have some handheld type things in the Death Star scenes.
Star Wars not being real was of course not really prior art and I can't think of any handhelp computers in it. But what about tricorders (sp?) or anything else handheld or portable from pre 1986 SF. If not prior art this would prove that it was and is a *very* obvious idea. Which is what I think you meant in any case.
I had the same thought but the Newton was not introduced until 1993 but this does bring up a interesting point. IIRC you have to defend a patent for it to be considered vaild. So why would the argument that they never used the patent against Apple not be a defense? I might be wrong here please let me know if I am. http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/content/zdnn/0522/zdnn00 15.html
IIRC ,and I'm sure I do, the Master also included languages in that list. Too many Americans forget that. Other than that you are dead on target.
"the (relative) lack of freedom to create or consume content"
WTF? You are right 100% right it is much easier to start a newspaper or publish a magazine or get a tv or radio show than it is to publish content on the web. Would you please give an example of how the net has made creating or consuming content harder?
that an airport toliet is better than his computer? We talked about this yesterday. Jon go read that and understand why you are wrong.
I will agree that for the average home user Linux is not there. Although I've been told that Mandrake is close. But for the most part when speaking of home use you are right.
No if you read carefully I'm an admin who happens to work for a number of different people with very different needs and wants. :)
Cosnidering that I turn down several job offers a month and am now looking at another one pretty closely yes I do think being an admin is a long term good thing.
Yup and of course winders *never* loses it's mind and goes all to hell and needs to have people called in to fix it. The simple fact of the matter is when it is up and running it is just as easy if not more so than winders and when it breaks Susie is not going to be fixing winders anymore than she can fix *nix.
You will notice that I used the past tense in those statements. Yes it is somewhat better with winders 2000 but still no where as nice as *nix.
This is why sys admins exist and why we are paid rather well. What about Linux with X up and a well configured WM is *not* point and click. My wife can do it. I have given it to many secretaries all of whom with ~1 hour of training can do it. Hell my 5 year old son can navigate E + gnome. While it is not possible to admin a Linux system without the command line it is very possible to use one without. The simple answer to too much choice which is what your other two points come down to is have a good admin test demonstarte and explain. Then make a decision based on your needs and wants and stick with it. Most arguments I have heard of this type stem from a confusion between using and system and admining a system. With M$ it has been the case that people have had to play amatuer sys admin either because there was no good way to stop them from doing it or there was no really good way to do it for them. With *nix I can use SSH to admin boxen on the other side of town and not get out of my chair. Thus we can once again have a sharp division between admins and users. And then Susie the secratary can set down at her machine and do her work instead of having to worry about doing admin duties on her machine. This is a good thing.
That would be wrong. Let's take a look at the facts.
1. Most distros use a stock kernel just with diffrent compile options. Thanks to the GPL anyone anywhere working on the kernel is helping everyone.
2. Many distros are derivied from RH or Debian. And in the case or Progeny help Debian out while working on their own goals. This is a good thing.
3. People are going to work on what they think is cool. Even with some of the economic woes going on if you have the skills to be a Linux developer you are still not going to have any trouble paying the rent. This means that almost every person out there who is paid to write Linux code is doing it because they want to if they did not want to work on that bit of code they could very easily go somewhere else and do it and get paid. The people who are doing it on their own ar going to do what they want to end of story.
4. Point to a distro that has caused fragmentation in the kernel. There is not a major one with more than a handfull of people working on it. Go back to 3 for comments on fragmentation of desktops packaging systems etc.
5. My job would be *much* harder if we only had one distro. For example I have a client who really wants a phone number to call in case I fall off the face of the earth. I need RH (shudder) for that person. Another wants the samllest cleanest system I can give him. Debian to the rescue. Yet another needs a very small braindead easy to manage firewall system. god I love the guys who work on floppyfw. In short multiple distros are a great thing for anybody who really understands and works with the code.
The software does not have to come as a .deb in fact apt-get install realplayer insists that you have the .rpm of realplayer :) If Oracle decided to test or if you could make it work with Debian there is no reason that the apt-get install .deb could not just point to /cdrom and get the stuff that it needs or just run the installer with the options that it wants at that point. This would most likely require that Oracle at least help a bit to make the code possible but it could be done. This is the true power of apt you can use it to install just about anything you want in just about any format. This is a good thing.
Hehehe.. You are forgetting that at that time to publish or distribute most works by Tom Paine was treason and was in fact illegal. So yes it was censorship. This goes for many other works by the other founding fathers. /. will publish , maybe not at the top of a list of comments but it *is* there, anything that you happen to type in name me another source of information about which this statement is true and I will accept that moderation is censorship.
Now where you are wrong about moderation is that it is not in fact any of these things. The analogy is if one merchant refused to carry Common Sense would this be censorship or to make it more accurate if a bookstore did not put the book in the front window and promote it. Or if for example the New York Times won't publish you on page one but several other papers will. You are I'm afraid confusing the right to speech with the right to have a specific audience. The simple fact is
Thank you High School history was a *long* time ago. I did not remember that point.
Hi again. Yes I can imagine a world in which Tom Paine was censored in fact I'm living in such a world right now. The crown did everything that it could to squash and destroy the works of Tom Paine and many of the other founding fathers. Now from a earlier thread in which we went back and forth on this you stated that making it hard to publish something is censorship. Well the English governement at the time would have killed Tom Paine had they been able to catch him and made life very hard for anyone caught with those works. In fact signing the declaration of independece was a act of treason in the eyes of the crown. So it was made very hard for the founding fathers to publish or get anything to readers which by your defination is censorship. The simple fact of the matter is moderation is not censorship.
Take a look at http://www.us.rasterman.com/pages/e.html for some reason it seems that this is where you need to go now for news. I for one love Enlightenment and would never use anything else.
"Damn I can't believe I just said that."
But you are right now that I think about it a bit more. Once you get over the I don't know and can't learn it stage you start to understand just how wrong the winders GUI is but unless you are exposed to something better you never will learn or understand just how bad it is. I think the reason most people fear and avoid the command line is that they have never been exposed to a real shell before. Here at work many people get their first taste of bash and within a week many of them hate the damn winders GUI and command line (or lack of) as much as I do. Once you take the time to learn and use the power I don't think anyone will ever go back.
I still don't get why people think the win 9X GUI is so great. yea it is what everybody knows but it just plain sucks. But this is of course a limit of all GUIs Basically for really working with files *nothing* beats xterm and bash. :) Having said that the wind 9x GUI is just plain wrong. Everything useful is buried and you either have way too many ways to do things or they can't be done at all. And have you ever tried to really customize the look and feel of a winders box? Yech. I have a couple of "John Doe" types begging me to install Linux for them now that they have seen my desktop (E + Gnome with all the Gnome stuff turned off :) and the Irix theme from e.themes.org) So please tell me just what is it that win 95's GUI does better? I have so far *never* gotten an answer to that question. :)
god I wish I had mod points.
LOL
You are right. I'm assuming the poster meant with a pure software solution in which case he is right. BTW this is a really fun site. http://lavarand.sgi.com/
Geeks use /. well at least this one does. And of course for Lynx www.google.com/linux
IIRC if you look at the Zapatista incident they had many of their supporters (lots of em in Europe) go and hit a page at the same time. The reason this would not work if you wanted to trick someone into doing is that everyone would have to run that worm within a few minutes of each other and I don't see that being very probable.
Because the fine folks at Arbor Networks can't make any money doing that. I mean come on if you don't have to pay through the nose for it it must not work right?
:)